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Moe Green

Philip Rivers Is Terrible

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I'm curious having seen this thread always at the top, and even participating...

If it will reach the "Jake Plummer" threads of a couple years ago. We're only at 7 pages, perhaps when it hits double digits, then I'll crown Philip Silvers with Jake status.

:yucky:

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....NO is clearly in the playoff hunt in the NFC. not sure of your point here. I could grab Rivers stats from the Bolts four losses and they would look horrible as well. Right now brees is the better QB, right now as a charger fan is what I care about. Right now if SD had Brees/Marty instead of Rivers/norv we would have a better chance to compete for a Superbowl.

Man BSS, you (and other Charger fans) have really really got to stop looking backward and start looking forward. What's done...is done. You've got Rivers and Norv, you've got to make that work.Personally my take on this whole thing; there's a factor that's being somewhat ignored in the Rivers v. Brees debate. And that's the fact that this year in particular Rivers is dealing with a coaching change. Maybe it's just me, but I think a HUGE part of SD's troubles stem from simple playcalling and familiarity of the coaching staff with the weapons they've got. I think there are some SERIOUS communication problems going on between the new coaching staff and the players. It really doesn't look like a happy ship where both sides come together, develop a plan, buy into the plan, practice the plan, and then execute it on gameday. There's something seriously amiss, and Rivers # are paying for it (as well as his confidence). Anyone that thinks he looks anything the QB he was last year needs to take off the River-colored glasses. He's seeing phantom pressure at this point, and whoever made the point that he has serious velocity problems when throwing off of poor footing - falling backward, sideways, pressure around his feet - is DEAD ON.I think eventually Norv and Co. will get comfortable. I think that will make Rivers and his O-line comfortable. When? Who knows, I think we'll see it happen before the end of this season. The real question is...in time to make sure they slide into the playoffs? Or will it be too late?
:confused:

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I'm curious having seen this thread always at the top, and even participating... If it will reach the "Jake Plummer" threads of a couple years ago. We're only at 7 pages, perhaps when it hits double digits, then I'll crown Philip Silvers with Jake status. :lmao:

That's actually a very fair comparison. Jake Plummer was a darn good QB with DEN yet he got most of the blame for every loss. LT scores 4 TD's in DEN and broncos lose a close one. Why did they lose? Jake Plummer of course. What's the broncos record since they got rid of Jake Plummer and now that he's no longer holding them back?

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Love the stats, but I much much much prefer to base these things on the actual football that we see being played on the field.

So you prefer discussions where people say "I saw this, and if you don't see the same thing you don't know anything about football"? :lmao: Myself, I kinda like it when people back up their arguments with facts. Maybe it's just me.
No, I meant for myself. When I make my judgements.

I understand some peope just like to look at stats.

I understand other people see things through different eyes and different colored glasses.

But from my position and my perspective, give me football on the field (particularly QB and OLine - for myself) as opposed to stats.

I did say I love the stats he posted as they are solid if we are talking about things from a statistical standpoint.

But my preference is from watching the game on the field and taking it from that perspective.

But what did you see on the field in Brees's second year that you liked so much?

The reason I ask is that most people thought they needed a change at QB at the time.

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Right now if SD had Brees/Marty instead of Rivers/norv we would have a better chance to compete for a Superbowl.

If you had Brees behind the Chargers OL the way they are playing right now and Marty without Cam Cameron calling the plays I don't think they'd be any closer to a SB.

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I also can easily imagine that Marty wasn't too thrilled that Rivers was drafted if he felt Brees was the future. I don't know if that is true or not, I don't recall.

"The Chargers coveted Eli Manning and wanted to select him with their first round pick, which was also the first overall pick of the draft. However, after Eli Manning indicated before the draft that he would not sign with the San Diego Chargers, the Chargers were forced to adjust their plans. Rivers was their first alternative to Manning because the Chargers head coach at the time, Marty Schottenheimer, had coached Rivers at the Senior Bowl and he liked what he saw from Rivers."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Rivers

If Marty wasn't the HC of the Chargers at the time I doubt very much Rivers would even be in SD.

Yet another attack. Weapon of choice; facts.

Of course it comes across as an attack.
I'm simply cutting and pasting something that shows what you were saying is 100% inaccurate. Now, any facts that disprove your position are "attacks"?
Reading comprehension down? You'd be better served to actually read what I posted instead being in such a rush to criticize. You seem to want to find something to nitpick over rather than have a debate of opinions. And again you missed the point I was making. But I'm getting used to that.
Weren't you the one crying about being attacked? When statements about the situation is wrong I'll point it out and post links as to why it's wrong. If that's nitpicking so be it.

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Love the stats, but I much much much prefer to base these things on the actual football that we see being played on the field.

So you prefer discussions where people say "I saw this, and if you don't see the same thing you don't know anything about football"? :wall: Myself, I kinda like it when people back up their arguments with facts. Maybe it's just me.
No, I meant for myself. When I make my judgements.

I understand some peope just like to look at stats.

I understand other people see things through different eyes and different colored glasses.

But from my position and my perspective, give me football on the field (particularly QB and OLine - for myself) as opposed to stats.

I did say I love the stats he posted as they are solid if we are talking about things from a statistical standpoint.

But my preference is from watching the game on the field and taking it from that perspective.

But what did you see on the field in Brees's second year that you liked so much?

The reason I ask is that most people thought they needed a change at QB at the time.

FWIW, I did not think they needed a QB change at the time. I thought they needed to improve the OL to give Brees a real chance before writing him off. :brag:

I therefore thought the Chargers should have selected Robert Gallery with the first pick. :bag:

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Love the stats, but I much much much prefer to base these things on the actual football that we see being played on the field.

So you prefer discussions where people say "I saw this, and if you don't see the same thing you don't know anything about football"? :wall: Myself, I kinda like it when people back up their arguments with facts. Maybe it's just me.
No, I meant for myself. When I make my judgements.

I understand some peope just like to look at stats.

I understand other people see things through different eyes and different colored glasses.

But from my position and my perspective, give me football on the field (particularly QB and OLine - for myself) as opposed to stats.

I did say I love the stats he posted as they are solid if we are talking about things from a statistical standpoint.

But my preference is from watching the game on the field and taking it from that perspective.

But what did you see on the field in Brees's second year that you liked so much?

The reason I ask is that most people thought they needed a change at QB at the time.

FWIW, I did not think they needed a QB change at the time. I thought they needed to improve the OL to give Brees a real change before writing him off. :brag:

I therefore thought the Chargers should have selected Robert Gallery with the first pick. :bag:

I wanted them to take Fitz or Roy Williams

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Love the stats, but I much much much prefer to base these things on the actual football that we see being played on the field.

So you prefer discussions where people say "I saw this, and if you don't see the same thing you don't know anything about football"? :wall: Myself, I kinda like it when people back up their arguments with facts. Maybe it's just me.
No, I meant for myself. When I make my judgements.

I understand some peope just like to look at stats.

I understand other people see things through different eyes and different colored glasses.

But from my position and my perspective, give me football on the field (particularly QB and OLine - for myself) as opposed to stats.

I did say I love the stats he posted as they are solid if we are talking about things from a statistical standpoint.

But my preference is from watching the game on the field and taking it from that perspective.

But what did you see on the field in Brees's second year that you liked so much?

The reason I ask is that most people thought they needed a change at QB at the time.

FWIW, I did not think they needed a QB change at the time. I thought they needed to improve the OL to give Brees a real change before writing him off. :brag:

I therefore thought the Chargers should have selected Robert Gallery with the first pick. :bag:

I'm wearing the same bag because if you recall I also wanted them to draft Gallery.

But at the time the common opinion of the team was they should keep Tomlinson and scrap just about everything else. Just because we both thought they needed an improvement at OL most of all didn't mean they also didn't need an improvement of QB play.

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Love the stats, but I much much much prefer to base these things on the actual football that we see being played on the field.

So you prefer discussions where people say "I saw this, and if you don't see the same thing you don't know anything about football"? :thumbup: Myself, I kinda like it when people back up their arguments with facts. Maybe it's just me.
No, I meant for myself. When I make my judgements.

I understand some peope just like to look at stats.

I understand other people see things through different eyes and different colored glasses.

But from my position and my perspective, give me football on the field (particularly QB and OLine - for myself) as opposed to stats.

I did say I love the stats he posted as they are solid if we are talking about things from a statistical standpoint.

But my preference is from watching the game on the field and taking it from that perspective.

But what did you see on the field in Brees's second year that you liked so much?

The reason I ask is that most people thought they needed a change at QB at the time.

FWIW, I did not think they needed a QB change at the time. I thought they needed to improve the OL to give Brees a real change before writing him off. :brag:

I therefore thought the Chargers should have selected Robert Gallery with the first pick. :thumbup:

I wanted them to take Fitz or Roy Williams
I'd never draft a WR that high unless you got the pick from someone else. If you earned the first pick in the draft by poor play drafting WR's never made much sense to me.

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Love the stats, but I much much much prefer to base these things on the actual football that we see being played on the field.

So you prefer discussions where people say "I saw this, and if you don't see the same thing you don't know anything about football"? :thumbup: Myself, I kinda like it when people back up their arguments with facts. Maybe it's just me.
No, I meant for myself. When I make my judgements.

I understand some peope just like to look at stats.

I understand other people see things through different eyes and different colored glasses.

But from my position and my perspective, give me football on the field (particularly QB and OLine - for myself) as opposed to stats.

I did say I love the stats he posted as they are solid if we are talking about things from a statistical standpoint.

But my preference is from watching the game on the field and taking it from that perspective.

But what did you see on the field in Brees's second year that you liked so much?

The reason I ask is that most people thought they needed a change at QB at the time.

FWIW, I did not think they needed a QB change at the time. I thought they needed to improve the OL to give Brees a real change before writing him off. :brag:

I therefore thought the Chargers should have selected Robert Gallery with the first pick. :thumbup:

I'm wearing the same bag because if you recall I also wanted them to draft Gallery.

But at the time the common opinion of the team was they should keep Tomlinson and scrap just about everything else. Just because we both thought they needed an improvement at OL most of all didn't mean they also didn't need an improvement of QB play.

:bag: Also wanted Gallery

:bag: Was hoping Mike Williams would fall to them the year they selected Merriman

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I therefore thought the Chargers should have selected Robert Gallery with the first pick. :thumbup:

I'm wearing the same bag because if you recall I also wanted them to draft Gallery.
Me three - err, four, um, five :thumbup: Edited by Gr00vus

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I therefore thought the Chargers should have selected Robert Gallery with the first pick. :goodposting:

I'm wearing the same bag because if you recall I also wanted them to draft Gallery.
Yeah.... :bag: me too.

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Love the stats, but I much much much prefer to base these things on the actual football that we see being played on the field.

So you prefer discussions where people say "I saw this, and if you don't see the same thing you don't know anything about football"? :goodposting: Myself, I kinda like it when people back up their arguments with facts. Maybe it's just me.
No, I meant for myself. When I make my judgements.

I understand some peope just like to look at stats.

I understand other people see things through different eyes and different colored glasses.

But from my position and my perspective, give me football on the field (particularly QB and OLine - for myself) as opposed to stats.

I did say I love the stats he posted as they are solid if we are talking about things from a statistical standpoint.

But my preference is from watching the game on the field and taking it from that perspective.

But what did you see on the field in Brees's second year that you liked so much?

The reason I ask is that most people thought they needed a change at QB at the time.

FWIW, I did not think they needed a QB change at the time. I thought they needed to improve the OL to give Brees a real change before writing him off. :brag:

I therefore thought the Chargers should have selected Robert Gallery with the first pick. :bag:

I wanted them to take Fitz or Roy Williams
I'd never draft a WR that high unless you got the pick from someone else. If you earned the first pick in the draft by poor play drafting WR's never made much sense to me.
huh? Fitz are Roy are the best players from that draft Besides Big Ben

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Love the stats, but I much much much prefer to base these things on the actual football that we see being played on the field.

So you prefer discussions where people say "I saw this, and if you don't see the same thing you don't know anything about football"? :goodposting: Myself, I kinda like it when people back up their arguments with facts. Maybe it's just me.
No, I meant for myself. When I make my judgements.

I understand some peope just like to look at stats.

I understand other people see things through different eyes and different colored glasses.

But from my position and my perspective, give me football on the field (particularly QB and OLine - for myself) as opposed to stats.

I did say I love the stats he posted as they are solid if we are talking about things from a statistical standpoint.

But my preference is from watching the game on the field and taking it from that perspective.

But what did you see on the field in Brees's second year that you liked so much?

The reason I ask is that most people thought they needed a change at QB at the time.

FWIW, I did not think they needed a QB change at the time. I thought they needed to improve the OL to give Brees a real change before writing him off. :brag:

I therefore thought the Chargers should have selected Robert Gallery with the first pick. :bag:

I'm wearing the same bag because if you recall I also wanted them to draft Gallery.

But at the time the common opinion of the team was they should keep Tomlinson and scrap just about everything else. Just because we both thought they needed an improvement at OL most of all didn't mean they also didn't need an improvement of QB play.

:bag: Also wanted Gallery

:bag: Was hoping Mike Williams would fall to them the year they selected Merriman

Now THAT's being honest!

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Love the stats, but I much much much prefer to base these things on the actual football that we see being played on the field.

So you prefer discussions where people say "I saw this, and if you don't see the same thing you don't know anything about football"? :goodposting: Myself, I kinda like it when people back up their arguments with facts. Maybe it's just me.
No, I meant for myself. When I make my judgements.

I understand some peope just like to look at stats.

I understand other people see things through different eyes and different colored glasses.

But from my position and my perspective, give me football on the field (particularly QB and OLine - for myself) as opposed to stats.

I did say I love the stats he posted as they are solid if we are talking about things from a statistical standpoint.

But my preference is from watching the game on the field and taking it from that perspective.

But what did you see on the field in Brees's second year that you liked so much?

The reason I ask is that most people thought they needed a change at QB at the time.

FWIW, I did not think they needed a QB change at the time. I thought they needed to improve the OL to give Brees a real change before writing him off. :brag:

I therefore thought the Chargers should have selected Robert Gallery with the first pick. :bag:

I wanted them to take Fitz or Roy Williams
I'd never draft a WR that high unless you got the pick from someone else. If you earned the first pick in the draft by poor play drafting WR's never made much sense to me.
huh? Fitz are Roy are the best players from that draft Besides Big Ben
I never said they aren't.

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Save it then. Neither had much chance of staying in San Diego. Marty threw Brees out there in a meaningless game against Denver because he wanted his ten-win incentive clause in his contract to kick in, which ended up getting Brees hurt. It made a difficult decision for A.J. into one that almost couldn't have been made any other way. Marty also engineered his own oustering, so he wasn't going to be there this year either. If you want to linger into the world of conjecture, be my guest.... but it reminds me of a little poems about how if wishes and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a very merry Christmas.

And your post isn't conjecture?
Based of your use of it in this post and the one that followed, I cannot be certain that you even know what the word means. If I assume that you are pointing to the part that you bolded, I am curious as to what piece of it you feel is conjecture? That it was a meaningless game? That Brees started that game? That Schottenheimer was the one who appointed Brees as the starter to that game? That Schottenheimer had an incentive clause for ten wins? That Brees ended up getting hurt in that game?

None of this is conjecture.

:own3d:

............again

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Love the stats, but I much much much prefer to base these things on the actual football that we see being played on the field.

So you prefer discussions where people say "I saw this, and if you don't see the same thing you don't know anything about football"? :lol: Myself, I kinda like it when people back up their arguments with facts. Maybe it's just me.
No, I meant for myself. When I make my judgements.

I understand some peope just like to look at stats.

I understand other people see things through different eyes and different colored glasses.

But from my position and my perspective, give me football on the field (particularly QB and OLine - for myself) as opposed to stats.

I did say I love the stats he posted as they are solid if we are talking about things from a statistical standpoint.

But my preference is from watching the game on the field and taking it from that perspective.

But what did you see on the field in Brees's second year that you liked so much?

The reason I ask is that most people thought they needed a change at QB at the time.

FWIW, I did not think they needed a QB change at the time. I thought they needed to improve the OL to give Brees a real change before writing him off. :brag:

I therefore thought the Chargers should have selected Robert Gallery with the first pick. ;)

I wanted them to take Fitz or Roy Williams
I'd never draft a WR that high unless you got the pick from someone else. If you earned the first pick in the draft by poor play drafting WR's never made much sense to me.
huh? Fitz are Roy are the best players from that draft Besides Big Ben
Ehh, Sean Taylor and Tommie Harris arent too shabby.

That 1st round was awesome

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Why the thread title change? Does he not suck?

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Here's an interesting read (posted at PFT) from the Chargers local media:

POSTED 12:58 p.m. EST, November 13, 2007

LACK OF DISCIPLINE IN SAN DIEGO? by Michael David Smith

The story didn't get much attention, but Kevin Acee of the San Diego Union-Tribune reported on Sunday that some Chargers players stayed out past curfew last Friday in Minneapolis, 36 hours before the team turned in its worst performance of the season in a loss to the Vikings.

Jim Trotter of Sports Illustrated reported during an appearance today on ESPN First Take that one of those players was linebacker Shawne Merriman.

According to Acee, the team responded to the curfew violation by not only fining the players involved, but also firing director of security Mike Cash, whose job description includes overseeing the security guards on the players' floor at the team's hotel and ensuring that the players are in on time.

Whether or not there's any link between the players staying out late and their weak performance against the Vikings, this raises the question of whether there's enough discipline on the Chargers.

Marty Schottenheimer, the coach the Chargers fired after last season's 14-2 record and first-round playoff loss, is known for having a good relationship with his players but also for running a tight ship. Norv Turner, the coach brought in to replace Schottenheimer, doesn't have that reputation. Jerry Rice, who played for Turner on the Raiders, once said that Turner "had no control" over the team.

Neither Turner nor General Manager A.J. Smith (who made the decision to fire Cash), would discuss the curfew violations. But if the Turner-coached Chargers don't start playing more like last year's Schottenheimer-coached Chargers, the questions about whether there's enough discipline in San Diego are not going away.

Confirmed that Merriman was one of them. "Sources have confirmed that the players in question were Drayton Florence, Antonio Gates, Cletis Gordon, Shawne Merriman, Carlos Polk, Brandon Siler and Jamal Williams . They were each fined $1,500." It was on Friday night. The team got to the hotel from the airport after 9:30 PM, and curfew was midnight. Those seven players stayed out until 12:30 AM. It has happened a number of times over the last several years, so this is not a Marty vs. Norv issue. (link)

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Here's an interesting read (posted at PFT) from the Chargers local media:

POSTED 12:58 p.m. EST, November 13, 2007

LACK OF DISCIPLINE IN SAN DIEGO? by Michael David Smith

The story didn't get much attention, but Kevin Acee of the San Diego Union-Tribune reported on Sunday that some Chargers players stayed out past curfew last Friday in Minneapolis, 36 hours before the team turned in its worst performance of the season in a loss to the Vikings.

Jim Trotter of Sports Illustrated reported during an appearance today on ESPN First Take that one of those players was linebacker Shawne Merriman.

According to Acee, the team responded to the curfew violation by not only fining the players involved, but also firing director of security Mike Cash, whose job description includes overseeing the security guards on the players' floor at the team's hotel and ensuring that the players are in on time.

Whether or not there's any link between the players staying out late and their weak performance against the Vikings, this raises the question of whether there's enough discipline on the Chargers.

Marty Schottenheimer, the coach the Chargers fired after last season's 14-2 record and first-round playoff loss, is known for having a good relationship with his players but also for running a tight ship. Norv Turner, the coach brought in to replace Schottenheimer, doesn't have that reputation. Jerry Rice, who played for Turner on the Raiders, once said that Turner "had no control" over the team.

Neither Turner nor General Manager A.J. Smith (who made the decision to fire Cash), would discuss the curfew violations. But if the Turner-coached Chargers don't start playing more like last year's Schottenheimer-coached Chargers, the questions about whether there's enough discipline in San Diego are not going away.

Confirmed that Merriman was one of them. "Sources have confirmed that the players in question were Drayton Florence, Antonio Gates, Cletis Gordon, Shawne Merriman, Carlos Polk, Brandon Siler and Jamal Williams . They were each fined $1,500." It was on Friday night. The team got to the hotel from the airport after 9:30 PM, and curfew was midnight. Those seven players stayed out until 12:30 AM. It has happened a number of times over the last several years, so this is not a Marty vs. Norv issue. (link)
How can you be sure? What are you basing your opinion on? The article suggests it is an issue with Norv. So I'll allow you to argue with the media on this one. And yet I'm not surprised that you would take this position.

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Here's an interesting read (posted at PFT) from the Chargers local media:

POSTED 12:58 p.m. EST, November 13, 2007

LACK OF DISCIPLINE IN SAN DIEGO? by Michael David Smith

The story didn't get much attention, but Kevin Acee of the San Diego Union-Tribune reported on Sunday that some Chargers players stayed out past curfew last Friday in Minneapolis, 36 hours before the team turned in its worst performance of the season in a loss to the Vikings.

Jim Trotter of Sports Illustrated reported during an appearance today on ESPN First Take that one of those players was linebacker Shawne Merriman.

According to Acee, the team responded to the curfew violation by not only fining the players involved, but also firing director of security Mike Cash, whose job description includes overseeing the security guards on the players' floor at the team's hotel and ensuring that the players are in on time.

Whether or not there's any link between the players staying out late and their weak performance against the Vikings, this raises the question of whether there's enough discipline on the Chargers.

Marty Schottenheimer, the coach the Chargers fired after last season's 14-2 record and first-round playoff loss, is known for having a good relationship with his players but also for running a tight ship. Norv Turner, the coach brought in to replace Schottenheimer, doesn't have that reputation. Jerry Rice, who played for Turner on the Raiders, once said that Turner "had no control" over the team.

Neither Turner nor General Manager A.J. Smith (who made the decision to fire Cash), would discuss the curfew violations. But if the Turner-coached Chargers don't start playing more like last year's Schottenheimer-coached Chargers, the questions about whether there's enough discipline in San Diego are not going away.

Confirmed that Merriman was one of them. "Sources have confirmed that the players in question were Drayton Florence, Antonio Gates, Cletis Gordon, Shawne Merriman, Carlos Polk, Brandon Siler and Jamal Williams . They were each fined $1,500." It was on Friday night. The team got to the hotel from the airport after 9:30 PM, and curfew was midnight. Those seven players stayed out until 12:30 AM. It has happened a number of times over the last several years, so this is not a Marty vs. Norv issue. (link)
How can you be sure? What are you basing your opinion on? The article suggests it is an issue with Norv. So I'll allow you to argue with the media on this one. And yet I'm not surprised that you would take this position.

Certainly, some on the outside will insist this is a reflection of a lack of discipline under first-year coach Norv Turner. But several sources said players missing curfew has been an issue on multiple occasions in recent years. And Turner reinstated the team staying at a hotel the night before home games in part to keep a tight control on players.

link

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Here's an interesting read (posted at PFT) from the Chargers local media:

POSTED 12:58 p.m. EST, November 13, 2007

LACK OF DISCIPLINE IN SAN DIEGO? by Michael David Smith

The story didn't get much attention, but Kevin Acee of the San Diego Union-Tribune reported on Sunday that some Chargers players stayed out past curfew last Friday in Minneapolis, 36 hours before the team turned in its worst performance of the season in a loss to the Vikings.

Jim Trotter of Sports Illustrated reported during an appearance today on ESPN First Take that one of those players was linebacker Shawne Merriman.

According to Acee, the team responded to the curfew violation by not only fining the players involved, but also firing director of security Mike Cash, whose job description includes overseeing the security guards on the players' floor at the team's hotel and ensuring that the players are in on time.

Whether or not there's any link between the players staying out late and their weak performance against the Vikings, this raises the question of whether there's enough discipline on the Chargers.

Marty Schottenheimer, the coach the Chargers fired after last season's 14-2 record and first-round playoff loss, is known for having a good relationship with his players but also for running a tight ship. Norv Turner, the coach brought in to replace Schottenheimer, doesn't have that reputation. Jerry Rice, who played for Turner on the Raiders, once said that Turner "had no control" over the team.

Neither Turner nor General Manager A.J. Smith (who made the decision to fire Cash), would discuss the curfew violations. But if the Turner-coached Chargers don't start playing more like last year's Schottenheimer-coached Chargers, the questions about whether there's enough discipline in San Diego are not going away.

Confirmed that Merriman was one of them. "Sources have confirmed that the players in question were Drayton Florence, Antonio Gates, Cletis Gordon, Shawne Merriman, Carlos Polk, Brandon Siler and Jamal Williams . They were each fined $1,500." It was on Friday night. The team got to the hotel from the airport after 9:30 PM, and curfew was midnight. Those seven players stayed out until 12:30 AM. It has happened a number of times over the last several years, so this is not a Marty vs. Norv issue. (link)
How can you be sure? What are you basing your opinion on? The article suggests it is an issue with Norv. So I'll allow you to argue with the media on this one. And yet I'm not surprised that you would take this position.

Certainly, some on the outside will insist this is a reflection of a lack of discipline under first-year coach Norv Turner. But several sources said players missing curfew has been an issue on multiple occasions in recent years. And Turner reinstated the team staying at a hotel the night before home games in part to keep a tight control on players.

link
:lmao:

.......again

:lmao:

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Here's an interesting read (posted at PFT) from the Chargers local media:

POSTED 12:58 p.m. EST, November 13, 2007

LACK OF DISCIPLINE IN SAN DIEGO? by Michael David Smith

The story didn't get much attention, but Kevin Acee of the San Diego Union-Tribune reported on Sunday that some Chargers players stayed out past curfew last Friday in Minneapolis, 36 hours before the team turned in its worst performance of the season in a loss to the Vikings.

Jim Trotter of Sports Illustrated reported during an appearance today on ESPN First Take that one of those players was linebacker Shawne Merriman.

According to Acee, the team responded to the curfew violation by not only fining the players involved, but also firing director of security Mike Cash, whose job description includes overseeing the security guards on the players' floor at the team's hotel and ensuring that the players are in on time.

Whether or not there's any link between the players staying out late and their weak performance against the Vikings, this raises the question of whether there's enough discipline on the Chargers.

Marty Schottenheimer, the coach the Chargers fired after last season's 14-2 record and first-round playoff loss, is known for having a good relationship with his players but also for running a tight ship. Norv Turner, the coach brought in to replace Schottenheimer, doesn't have that reputation. Jerry Rice, who played for Turner on the Raiders, once said that Turner "had no control" over the team.

Neither Turner nor General Manager A.J. Smith (who made the decision to fire Cash), would discuss the curfew violations. But if the Turner-coached Chargers don't start playing more like last year's Schottenheimer-coached Chargers, the questions about whether there's enough discipline in San Diego are not going away.

Confirmed that Merriman was one of them. "Sources have confirmed that the players in question were Drayton Florence, Antonio Gates, Cletis Gordon, Shawne Merriman, Carlos Polk, Brandon Siler and Jamal Williams . They were each fined $1,500." It was on Friday night. The team got to the hotel from the airport after 9:30 PM, and curfew was midnight. Those seven players stayed out until 12:30 AM. It has happened a number of times over the last several years, so this is not a Marty vs. Norv issue. (link)
How can you be sure? What are you basing your opinion on? The article suggests it is an issue with Norv. So I'll allow you to argue with the media on this one. And yet I'm not surprised that you would take this position.

Certainly, some on the outside will insist this is a reflection of a lack of discipline under first-year coach Norv Turner. But several sources said players missing curfew has been an issue on multiple occasions in recent years. And Turner reinstated the team staying at a hotel the night before home games in part to keep a tight control on players.

link
My bad. I totally missed your link.But I think there are other comments in that article that tell alot about what's happening on this team. The following comment suggests things aren't right:

It likely had nothing to do with the loss, but it doesn't look good for a team mired in an underwhelming season.

Sounds like even Acee thinks things are a problem and he is not quick to criticize. I wonder where he thinks the responsibility lands on this "underwhelming" season?

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Here's an interesting read (posted at PFT) from the Chargers local media:

POSTED 12:58 p.m. EST, November 13, 2007

LACK OF DISCIPLINE IN SAN DIEGO? by Michael David Smith

The story didn't get much attention, but Kevin Acee of the San Diego Union-Tribune reported on Sunday that some Chargers players stayed out past curfew last Friday in Minneapolis, 36 hours before the team turned in its worst performance of the season in a loss to the Vikings.

Jim Trotter of Sports Illustrated reported during an appearance today on ESPN First Take that one of those players was linebacker Shawne Merriman.

According to Acee, the team responded to the curfew violation by not only fining the players involved, but also firing director of security Mike Cash, whose job description includes overseeing the security guards on the players' floor at the team's hotel and ensuring that the players are in on time.

Whether or not there's any link between the players staying out late and their weak performance against the Vikings, this raises the question of whether there's enough discipline on the Chargers.

Marty Schottenheimer, the coach the Chargers fired after last season's 14-2 record and first-round playoff loss, is known for having a good relationship with his players but also for running a tight ship. Norv Turner, the coach brought in to replace Schottenheimer, doesn't have that reputation. Jerry Rice, who played for Turner on the Raiders, once said that Turner "had no control" over the team.

Neither Turner nor General Manager A.J. Smith (who made the decision to fire Cash), would discuss the curfew violations. But if the Turner-coached Chargers don't start playing more like last year's Schottenheimer-coached Chargers, the questions about whether there's enough discipline in San Diego are not going away.

Confirmed that Merriman was one of them. "Sources have confirmed that the players in question were Drayton Florence, Antonio Gates, Cletis Gordon, Shawne Merriman, Carlos Polk, Brandon Siler and Jamal Williams . They were each fined $1,500." It was on Friday night. The team got to the hotel from the airport after 9:30 PM, and curfew was midnight. Those seven players stayed out until 12:30 AM. It has happened a number of times over the last several years, so this is not a Marty vs. Norv issue. (link)
How can you be sure? What are you basing your opinion on? The article suggests it is an issue with Norv. So I'll allow you to argue with the media on this one. And yet I'm not surprised that you would take this position.

Certainly, some on the outside will insist this is a reflection of a lack of discipline under first-year coach Norv Turner. But several sources said players missing curfew has been an issue on multiple occasions in recent years. And Turner reinstated the team staying at a hotel the night before home games in part to keep a tight control on players.

link
:football:

.......again

:mellow:

Imagine that. JWB makes another post that says absolutely nothing. If you don't have anything of value to add maybe you shouldn't bother post. I really don't mind the debate but it's clear you can't think for yourself. Of course maybe you prefer that others make your posts for you......

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curfew was midnight. Those seven players stayed out until 12:30 AM.

I'm sure this was why they got their butts kicked. :football:

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Imagine that. JWB makes another post that says absolutely nothing. If you don't have anything of value to add maybe you shouldn't bother post. I really don't mind the debate but it's clear you can't think for yourself. Of course maybe you prefer that others make your posts for you......

Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black. Here's a recent hit list of posts;to me..."Reading comprehension down? You'd be better served to actually read what I posted instead being in such a rush to criticize. You seem to want to find something to nitpick over rather than have a debate of opinions. And again you missed the point I was making. But I'm getting used to that."to Mr. PadresLakers..."This might qualify as one of the most uninformed posts I've seen in a long time. You've outdone yourself with this one. Just when I thought you like to argue with me over strupid non-sense, I now realize you just don't have any football knowledge. It certainly explains many of your other argumentative posts and this one."to Walter Slovotsky..."How about we just stop period. Arguing over silly issues of sematics is a total waste of time. Not sure how else anyone can explain market value to you. Some people just don't understand these things. Let's move on."So what did any of these gems have to do with football?

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Imagine that. JWB makes another post that says absolutely nothing. If you don't have anything of value to add maybe you shouldn't bother post. I really don't mind the debate but it's clear you can't think for yourself. Of course maybe you prefer that others make your posts for you......

Dude, that describes every post you have made in this thread.

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If you don't have anything of value to add maybe you shouldn't bother post.

I'd say "right back at ya," but I have no idea what "you shouldn't bother post" means.

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He needs to calm down, lay off the Mountain Dew...

Edited by TitusIII

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Great game against a tough D.....

Nice passes (Gates was open all day), but he made some nice sideline throws to VJ.

Good velocity, good decision making....throwing it away versus forcing the pass.

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I would like to see some consistency in his game next week. We always seem to struggle vs. KC on the road.

I'm worried about that DL. Hali/Allen are a fearsome duo at DE. Edwards certainly should be familiar covering Gates. Chambers has been great so far but I'm not sure if he and Vincent Jackson match up well with Law/Surtain. This will certainly be a test for Rivers.If SD wins this week I think they have to lean more heavily than ever on Tomlinson. It's looking like the possibility of snow in the forecast this weekend.

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Great game against a tough D.....Nice passes (Gates was open all day), but he made some nice sideline throws to VJ.Good velocity, good decision making....throwing it away versus forcing the pass.

Rivers did well, but Gates was wide open as you said.The Ravens aren't a good defense this year, that's been a common misconception all season. Their secondary is a mess.

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Great game against a tough D.....Nice passes (Gates was open all day), but he made some nice sideline throws to VJ.Good velocity, good decision making....throwing it away versus forcing the pass.

Rivers did well, but Gates was wide open as you said.The Ravens aren't a good defense this year, that's been a common misconception all season. Their secondary is a mess.
plus they tried to cover gates with LB's all game. Bad move for a genius an all

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Baltimore had the 6th best defense coming into yesterday's game. The reason why they have sucked this year is their horrible offense.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef.php

If you look closer to the stats they're ranked 16th in defense with regard to passing TD's and 26th in YPA vs the pass. Those criticisms of the BAL pass defense are valid. They aren't one of the strongest units as they traditionally are. I think Ray Lewis is losing a lot of $ this year. Isn't this the last year of his contract? I thought he wanted a big extension and BAL was reluctant to give it to him?

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He played very well yesterday, it was really nice to see. The Oline gave him a pocket to pass in which helped quite a bit. He also did a nice job hitting the open guys, not out thinking things. Also helps when guys like VJax hang on to the ball and keep drives going. All and all a nice game to build on, now we shall see if he can do again this weekend in a hostile road environment like KC.

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Great game against a tough D.....Nice passes (Gates was open all day), but he made some nice sideline throws to VJ.Good velocity, good decision making....throwing it away versus forcing the pass.

Rivers did well, but Gates was wide open as you said.The Ravens aren't a good defense this year, that's been a common misconception all season. Their secondary is a mess.
plus they tried to cover gates with LB's all game. Bad move for a genius an all
I don't think there is a LB that can cover him with much success. But I guess they thought it was a good idea. Almost as bad as Denver kicking to Hester. You gotta be kidding me!But let's give props to Rivers and the Chargers for getting the job done. Balt may not be as good as last year but they still have some play makers on defense and Rivers managed the game very well.

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Rivers still threw off his back foot too many times yesterday. But having decent protection and having guys wide open made a big difference.

:goodposting: He was more accurate yesterday which is imperative. However his throws are still pretty ugly, I don't think he threw a tight spiral at any point yesterday, and on the first Gates TD he didn't get it out there far enough - Gates had to actually wait for the ball. If coverage is average to good yesterday I think we're having a continuation of the Rivers sucks conversation. I was greatly amused (for those who listened to the audio) at Randy Cross's constant comments about Rivers's strong arm and laser beam throws - does this guy actually watch the games/players?Worst of all was when Rivers turned around to yell at the crowd to shut up as they were booing him off the field following another 3 and out. The guy's head just isn't right to be a top QB, sorry but that's just how it is. If he can't learn to keep his head he's not going to have what it takes to lead his team when it counts.

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I was very pleased with Rivers' performance yesterday. He made the right reads, threw the ball away when there was nothing there, and was extremely accurate. I'm not sure if Hardwick makes that much of a difference, but the OL was tremendous in pass protection.

It's amazing how different Rivers looks when he has time to throw.

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Rivers still threw off his back foot too many times yesterday. But having decent protection and having guys wide open made a big difference.

:ptts: He was more accurate yesterday which is imperative. However his throws are still pretty ugly, I don't think he threw a tight spiral at any point yesterday, and on the first Gates TD he didn't get it out there far enough - Gates had to actually wait for the ball. If coverage is average to good yesterday I think we're having a continuation of the Rivers sucks conversation. I was greatly amused (for those who listened to the audio) at Randy Cross's constant comments about Rivers's strong arm and laser beam throws - does this guy actually watch the games/players?Worst of all was when Rivers turned around to yell at the crowd to shut up as they were booing him off the field following another 3 and out. The guy's head just isn't right to be a top QB, sorry but that's just how it is. If he can't learn to keep his head he's not going to have what it takes to lead his team when it counts.
Rivers was booed on the first drive, where he was 1-1 for 8 yards. He continued his good play the rest of the game, boo more. Coverage complaints? When teams don't even cover Wes Welker I don't see comments about how Brady would be average if only teams would do a better job covering his WRs, its a pretty mehh comment if you ask me. Rivers got the ball to the open man, did you see the second Gates TD, the one where the Raven defender was about to blast him, and he stood in the pocket and fired it to Gates? Hard crowd to please here.

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So.....now who is better now, Eli or Rivers?

Whoever threw less interceptions in the most recent week's games. So this week its Rivers.The actual correct answer is Roethlisberger.

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So.....now who is better now, Eli or Rivers?

Whoever threw less interceptions in the most recent week's games. So this week its Rivers.The actual correct answer is Roethlisberger.
But last year (Bens second as starter) people were hating him, calling him Big Bust and what not. Sometimes people are quick to write off young QBs, as I believe is the case here with Rivers.

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I was very pleased with Rivers' performance yesterday. He made the right reads, threw the ball away when there was nothing there, and was extremely accurate. I'm not sure if Hardwick makes that much of a difference, but the OL was tremendous in pass protection.It's amazing how different Rivers looks when he has time to throw.

They all look good when they have time to throw. What seperates the good ones is what they do with the ball when protection breaks down. Some guys just don't make good decisions under pressure. Not sure where Rivers is yet as it sometimes takes 2-3 years to fully develop the NFL game. I forget which one posted the comment about his confidence but if he's not confident then he's going to have continued problems. Maybe his confidence is waning leaving him with more bad decisions? Who knows but it seems clear he has the talent so I wouldn't be surprised to find that's the case.

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