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I went ahead and called Wells about refinancing my 20 year/4.75% and was told I could get 3.25 with zero points on a 15 year loan. They said there would be $3400 in closing costs. No biggy I figured, it's paying 2 months of payments to remove nearly 4 years from my loan, and figured I'd just pay cash. However, I just got the good faith estimate packet in the mail and it has $6314.14 in the "Total Estimated Settlement Charges" box. That can't be right, can it? What sort of closing costs should I be expecting for this sort of refi on a <> $200,000 loan?

Just curious what led you to doing a 20 year loan in the first place? I've been doing loans for a long time and don't think I've put anyone on a 20 year note in the last 10+years. In that time frame I think I've put someone on one 10 year note and it was against my advice. The 20 year note rate is usually very very similar to the 30 year note rate. The 10 year note rate is usually very similar to the 15 year note rate. So someone doing a 10 or 20 year note is sacrificing financial flexibility for next to nothing in terms of rate improvement. It's a good thing the WF rep turned you on to the 15 year note instead.In terms of fixed rate lending I strongly advise anyone to only consider the 15 or 30 year and nothing else and I don't care if you plan to pay your loan off your loan early because you can pay your loan off or apply principal payments whenever you want. It's real simple. Either take the financial flexibility/lower payment the 30 year note offers or if you feel comfortable with the payment take the rate improvement you get from a 15 year note. No one should consider any other fixed rate loans.In terms of your question. Big difference in settlement fees versus closing costs. Settlement fees, as I think Dragons pointed out, take into account escrow and odd days interest. These are not and should not be considered closing costs. These are not fees you are paying anyone for a service, it's just going towards YOUR taxes and insurance and the interest on YOUR loan. When you pay money out for these things don't think of it as "losing" money. If you have a current escrow account that does not transfer over when you refinance you get it refunded to you within 30 days of loan payoff. Closing costs are a different animal entirely and that is something that you and everyone doing a loan should focus on. These are hard costs paid to someone else for a service. This is real costs to you. So total settlement fees are not real costs to you, only the portion that is "closing costs".One other point of clarification. Setting up an escrow account does not make your loan a cash out loan. The only time setting up an escrow account utilized to pay taxes becomes a cash out loan is when the taxes are delinquent. This can lead to the loan being considered a cash out loan.

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One other point of clarification. Setting up an escrow account does not make your loan a cash out loan. The only time setting up an escrow account utilized to pay taxes becomes a cash out loan is when the taxes are delinquent. This can lead to the loan being considered a cash out loan.

This question came up because he said his total loan amount was higher than his payoff (in the amount of the closing costs + escrow). This sounds like a mistake on wells fargo's part. But, for the sake of argument, if he wanted to roll these costs/payments into the loan amount, would the loan be considered a cash out?

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One other point of clarification. Setting up an escrow account does not make your loan a cash out loan. The only time setting up an escrow account utilized to pay taxes becomes a cash out loan is when the taxes are delinquent. This can lead to the loan being considered a cash out loan.

This question came up because he said his total loan amount was higher than his payoff (in the amount of the closing costs + escrow). This sounds like a mistake on wells fargo's part. But, for the sake of argument, if he wanted to roll these costs/payments into the loan amount, would the loan be considered a cash out?

No. Rolling in closing costs/interest/impounds into the loan amount does not make a loan a cash out loan. People rarely pay these things out of pocket and most roll them into the loan amount on refinances.

For the most part a loan is considered a cash out if the borrower is taking money out with the loan(most states allow you to take the lesser of $2,000 or 2% of the loan amount as cash after closing and still not consider the loan a cash out), paying off a second mortgage that was was NOT used to purchase the property or refinancing a cash out first mortgage loan that is less than 6 months old.

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I just got a 15 yr at 3.00. We had 23.7 left on a 30. Payment went up $86. We paid $190 at closing and and put $3300 in escrow. Got $4200 back from BOA two weeks later. Free money.

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i have a 15 year at 3.75 that i did in 2010... is there such a thing as a 10 or 5 year home loan i can get?

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Quoted 3.75 today on a 30 year mortgage with 1/4 point REBATE toward closing.

Uggh. I hate that I locked in at 3.875 a month ago. Kinda funny.

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i have a 15 year at 3.75 that i did in 2010... is there such a thing as a 10 or 5 year home loan i can get?

I've never seen a 5 year fixed loan and you can get a 10 but it really does you no good since the rates generally mirror the 15 year fixed.I can give you this suggestion however. If you really feel confident in your ability to pay your mortgage off in 5 years you could do a 5 year fully amortizing ARM loan and just compute an amortization schedule so that you apply enough in principal payments to pay your loan off in 5 years. Worst case if you don't make the 5 year mark your loan simply adjusts. The benefit to you is the ability to obtain the lowest rate possible for the next 5 years. Rates for this are not drastically better than a 15 year fixed and much depends on the exact loan parameters so but you might be able to do a .25 to half a point rate improvement over a 15 year fixed loan and obtain something in the mid 2's.

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i have a 15 year at 3.75 that i did in 2010... is there such a thing as a 10 or 5 year home loan i can get?

Penfed has a 5 year fixed 1.99 HEL. If you have enough equity in your home to pay off your mortgage thiss will work well for you. HEL's typically dont have any closing costs. Pretty much a no brainer if you can swing it.https://www.penfed.org/home-equity-loan/

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Loan type and term: 30 Years Conventional Pay Now Original principal balance: $295,100.00 Transaction history Contractual remaining term: 28 years, 5 months Workout information Interest rate: 4.625% Current principal balance: $287,626.66 Escrow balance: $100.61

Here is my May payment info:

Interest portion: $1,110

Principal: $407

Escrow: $142

Does that help?

Yep. Based on these figures your current P&I pymt. is $1,517.23. Let's work with a new loan amount of 290K rolling the closing costs in, your new P&I pymt. would be $1,322.55 at 3.625% and saving you $195 per month. Your breakeven period based on 2K closing costs would be 10.25 months so since your looking at staying at least 4 years the refi. makes sense. As mentioned from another poster taking a 3.75% or even 3.875% rate and seeing how much of the 2K the mortgage company would cover is another option to consider, post back what they say. As a general rule of thumb for every .25% percent in rate is a plus or minus 1pt., so at 3.75% you could be looking at a reduction in closing costs by $725. At 3.875% $1,450 reduction.
So looks like we're signing tomorrow. The fees are $1500 for the loan processing and $700 for title fees. It's all being rolled into the loan so nothing will be out of pocket. We'll be getting that 3.625% 30 yr fixed with no points and, because our credit is very good, could go down when he looks for bonuses tomorrow. It definitely won't go up. No appraisal fees since they don't need to do an appraisal.

Considering there's nothing out of pocket and our monthly payments will drop by ~$150/month, this is a no-brainer.

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i have a 15 year at 3.75 that i did in 2010... is there such a thing as a 10 or 5 year home loan i can get?

I've never seen a 5 year fixed loan and you can get a 10 but it really does you no good since the rates generally mirror the 15 year fixed.I can give you this suggestion however. If you really feel confident in your ability to pay your mortgage off in 5 years you could do a 5 year fully amortizing ARM loan and just compute an amortization schedule so that you apply enough in principal payments to pay your loan off in 5 years. Worst case if you don't make the 5 year mark your loan simply adjusts. The benefit to you is the ability to obtain the lowest rate possible for the next 5 years. Rates for this are not drastically better than a 15 year fixed and much depends on the exact loan parameters so but you might be able to do a .25 to half a point rate improvement over a 15 year fixed loan and obtain something in the mid 2's.
what is a 5 year fully amortizing arm loan... what does that mean?

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i have a 15 year at 3.75 that i did in 2010... is there such a thing as a 10 or 5 year home loan i can get?

Two months ago I closed on a 15 with .25 back at 3.25%. I pay it as though it is a 10 year. Could I have done .25 better with a 10 year? Yeah probably. But I have the ability to change payments back to the 15 year schedule and "save" $500.Try and re-fi to a 15 and pay it like a 10 or whatever year you want.

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Question for mortgage experts.

I was told that I had gotten a "rural development loan" and that as a result I can't re-finance and I can't rent out my house!!!

Are either of those statements true?

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I only pay cash for homes now.

Baller :yes:

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what is a 5 year fully amortizing arm loan... what does that mean?

Fully amortizing means you are making payments on principal as well as interest with the contrast to this being interest only loans. It does not mean a loan that is intended to pay off in 5 years if you simply make the minimum payment.

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Question for mortgage experts.I was told that I had gotten a "rural development loan" and that as a result I can't re-finance and I can't rent out my house!!!Are either of those statements true?

I know very little about these kind of loans. Have never done one but I'll answer what I can but hopefully someone with more knowledge about this kind of loan will help you out.To be eligible for a refinance yes it has to be your primary residence. So no it can't be an investment/rental.On the refinance yes you can refinance an existing rural development loan as long as you refinance it as a R&D loan. What you can't do is refinance an existing FHA, VA, conventional or government loan that is not a R&D loan as a R&D loan. So you can't refinance a loan that is not a R&D loan as a R&D loan. But not sure about the reverse of this, meaning I don't know if a R&D loan can be refinanced as a FHA/conventional or any other type of loan. If that's what you are trying to do I don't know the correct answer.

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I only pay cash for homes now.

I usually barter the knowledge I've gained from timschochet threads.

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Question for mortgage experts.I was told that I had gotten a "rural development loan" and that as a result I can't re-finance and I can't rent out my house!!!Are either of those statements true?

I know very little about these kind of loans. Have never done one but I'll answer what I can but hopefully someone with more knowledge about this kind of loan will help you out.To be eligible for a refinance yes it has to be your primary residence. So no it can't be an investment/rental.On the refinance yes you can refinance an existing rural development loan as long as you refinance it as a R&D loan. What you can't do is refinance an existing FHA, VA, conventional or government loan that is not a R&D loan as a R&D loan. So you can't refinance a loan that is not a R&D loan as a R&D loan. But not sure about the reverse of this, meaning I don't know if a R&D loan can be refinanced as a FHA/conventional or any other type of loan. If that's what you are trying to do I don't know the correct answer.
Thanks! Is there a rule about how long after a refinance you can then rent the house out?

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3.625 for 30 year fixed rate today with no points. I'm tempted to lock it in, but something about the possibility of 3.5 is keeping me from doing it. Anyone in the industry think that it dips to 3.5 this week?

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3.625 for 30 year fixed rate today with no points. I'm tempted to lock it in, but something about the possibility of 3.5 is keeping me from doing it. Anyone in the industry think that it dips to 3.5 this week?

Municipal Bond rates are up, so maybe we see a bump in mtg rates.

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3.625 for 30 year fixed rate today with no points. I'm tempted to lock it in, but something about the possibility of 3.5 is keeping me from doing it. Anyone in the industry think that it dips to 3.5 this week?

From what bank?

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3.625 for 30 year fixed rate today with no points. I'm tempted to lock it in, but something about the possibility of 3.5 is keeping me from doing it. Anyone in the industry think that it dips to 3.5 this week?

Municipal Bond rates are up, so maybe we see a bump in mtg rates.

At this time things are trending towards lower rates but that can change quickly.

I've posted this before in here but could be 20 pages ago. Here's a great link to chart movement. http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/MTGEFNCL:IND/chart It charts movement Fannie Mae 30 year coupons but is a good indicator for all rates.

A few quick notes:

*Click on the range field labeled 1D to show movement for that day. If you want to see movement for the past week/month etc click 1W or 1M but that's just to show were they've been. The 1D range can run 15 minutes off real time but is pretty close and charts movement.

*When you see it dip rates go down and when it shoots up rates go up. Here is the key thing to note. It's not instantaneous. For instance 9:10 to 11:28 when it was swinging wildly up and down no rates changes occurred. It's not an exact science but when you see it take a decent rise or drop and maintain for a decent amount of time a rate change is coming. The majority of days the rate does not change during the day but sometimes we can see 2-3 rate changes in a day. Also lender are typically quicker to increase the rate when movement spikes up a little slower to decrease when rates drop.

Most mortgage lender put out there rates today when this chart was on the high side as most put out rates between 8-9 am CST. So right now we've seen a nice drop since than and I'd anticipate if the chart does not spike back up in the next hour or so we see rates decrease later today.

So I could be wrong but if it was me I'd wait to lock but I'd be hawking on this chart and make sure when you are ready to lock the person you are dealing with can do in quickly upon your request in case things should spike up.

Also keep this in mind. There is usually a little bit of time the markets open in the morning before rates post. So sometimes I've seen this chart dip all afternoon which leads me to anticipate lower rates the next day only to see the market change completely the next morning and we open with higher rates. Always a bit of risk waiting for the next day but it's fairly manageable risk.

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Thanks! Is there a rule about how long after a refinance you can then rent the house out?

Not really. When the loan application asks if you intend to occupy the house as your primary residence you would answer yes. What's to say things don't change in your life 2-3 months later? But to be clear if you never intend to occupy the house as your primary residence and check yes are committing fraud. If you made it to closing your chances of getting caught are slim to none but it is is fraud or misrepresentation if it was never your intention.A few things however. If you own another house it's not easy to just say this is your primary residence and if you currently rent this house and report the income on your tax returns you'll run into a host of potential issues and probably never make it to closing.If you are thinking more down the line sometime you might rent this house out but currently live in you should be fine.

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3.625 for 30 year fixed rate today with no points. I'm tempted to lock it in, but something about the possibility of 3.5 is keeping me from doing it. Anyone in the industry think that it dips to 3.5 this week?

From what bank?
2, neither are internet banks. 1. Huntington Bank which is my brick and mortar bank which is cutting their rate 1/8 for direct debit of payment 2. Howard Hanna Mortgage services. The house is listed with Howard Hanna real estate and their agent is handling the purchase.I'm waiting for a good faith estimate of closing costs from each to decide who to go with. Edited by george

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Menobrown or other mortgage guys,

Do you hear any talk of a possible streamlined refinance option for those of us whose mortgage originated after May 2009? I started a one-time close construction loan in late 2008 and went to permanent in August 2009 on a Freddie Mac 30 yr fixed max conforming 417 at 5% with a local bank that immediately sold it to US Bank. The local bank kept my 2nd which is at 6.5% and interest only for 5 yrs. I assume August 2009 is my origination date for HARP purposes. I am current on both. Credit around 750 although it's been a while since I've checked.

I have a unique property which is hard to find comparables for. Do I just jump in with someone under a regular refinance scenario and hope the appraisal comes in; then only be out the appraisal fee if it doesn't? I'd like to do a max conforming again and use the excess to pay closing costs and pay down the 2nd a little assuming the 1st is still at 80%. Since the 2nd was used for the home purchase would it be counted as a cash-out refinance and get dinged for a tad higher rate.

When I asked the local bank if they'd subordinate the 2nd they said they usually want to convert it to a fixed loan (not interest-only again). I told them if they allow me to refinance that will free up cash making it easier for me to afford the 2nd. Of course I'd rather have the first and 2nd together with a minimal rate on the 2nd too.

HARP 3.0 perhaps in the works for folks who are squeezed in the appraisal game and risk averse environment and originated after May 2009? Any thoughts or advice?

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Close on Thursday. My mortgage guy just called and said he could do 3.875% with no points. Done.

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Thanks! Is there a rule about how long after a refinance you can then rent the house out?

Not really. When the loan application asks if you intend to occupy the house as your primary residence you would answer yes. What's to say things don't change in your life 2-3 months later? But to be clear if you never intend to occupy the house as your primary residence and check yes are committing fraud. If you made it to closing your chances of getting caught are slim to none but it is is fraud or misrepresentation if it was never your intention.A few things however. If you own another house it's not easy to just say this is your primary residence and if you currently rent this house and report the income on your tax returns you'll run into a host of potential issues and probably never make it to closing.If you are thinking more down the line sometime you might rent this house out but currently live in you should be fine.
I believe the last time I refied, one of the documents I signed had a timeframe on it, such as I intended to occupy the house as my primary residence for 6 month, or a year.

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Just spoke to my guy...3% for 15 yrs fixed or 3.625% for 30 yr fixed.

Currently on a 5% 30 yr.

I can save $200 a month going with the 30 or spend an extra $250 and get the 15.

If I didn't have baby #2 due in a week or so this would be a no brainer... :confused:

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Just locked a 30yr fixed with no points at 3.75%. Don't close for another few weeks. Maybe the rates go down even more and I'll regret this, but did not think it was worth the gamble.

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Thanks! Is there a rule about how long after a refinance you can then rent the house out?

Not really. When the loan application asks if you intend to occupy the house as your primary residence you would answer yes. What's to say things don't change in your life 2-3 months later? But to be clear if you never intend to occupy the house as your primary residence and check yes are committing fraud. If you made it to closing your chances of getting caught are slim to none but it is is fraud or misrepresentation if it was never your intention.A few things however. If you own another house it's not easy to just say this is your primary residence and if you currently rent this house and report the income on your tax returns you'll run into a host of potential issues and probably never make it to closing.If you are thinking more down the line sometime you might rent this house out but currently live in you should be fine.
I believe the last time I refied, one of the documents I signed had a timeframe on it, such as I intended to occupy the house as my primary residence for 6 month, or a year.
That's very possible. I tried to answer the question to the best of my knowledge but I pretty much focus on one kind of lending which is conventional and with me and my company we don't have any such form we have borrowers sign for those types of loans. There might be other lenders or other loan types that actually stipulate the time frame in the closing papers that I'm not aware off. I do believe FHA loans stipulate that you have to live in the house for a year but I don't do FHA loans very often and I never attend closings or see the final paperwork so can't attest to there being a form in the paperwork which actually specifies the time frame but I do think their guidelines call for a year.

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Thanks! Is there a rule about how long after a refinance you can then rent the house out?

Not really. When the loan application asks if you intend to occupy the house as your primary residence you would answer yes. What's to say things don't change in your life 2-3 months later? But to be clear if you never intend to occupy the house as your primary residence and check yes are committing fraud. If you made it to closing your chances of getting caught are slim to none but it is is fraud or misrepresentation if it was never your intention.A few things however. If you own another house it's not easy to just say this is your primary residence and if you currently rent this house and report the income on your tax returns you'll run into a host of potential issues and probably never make it to closing.If you are thinking more down the line sometime you might rent this house out but currently live in you should be fine.
I believe the last time I refied, one of the documents I signed had a timeframe on it, such as I intended to occupy the house as my primary residence for 6 month, or a year.
That's very possible. I tried to answer the question to the best of my knowledge but I pretty much focus on one kind of lending which is conventional and with me and my company we don't have any such form we have borrowers sign for those types of loans. There might be other lenders or other loan types that actually stipulate the time frame in the closing papers that I'm not aware off. I do believe FHA loans stipulate that you have to live in the house for a year but I don't do FHA loans very often and I never attend closings or see the final paperwork so can't attest to there being a form in the paperwork which actually specifies the time frame but I do think their guidelines call for a year.
Wasn't trying to make it sound like I was correcting you, just adding in what I knew.Also, it was an FHA loan on that re-fi, as the house is/was underwater.

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3.625 for 30 year fixed rate today with no points. I'm tempted to lock it in, but something about the possibility of 3.5 is keeping me from doing it. Anyone in the industry think that it dips to 3.5 this week?

I have been working with Huntington as well, would it be possible if you could you PM the name of the person you are dealing with?

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Wasn't trying to make it sound like I was correcting you, just adding in what I knew.Also, it was an FHA loan on that re-fi, as the house is/was underwater.

Thanks for saying that but I did not take it that way at all and if I am wrong on something I'm good with being corrected. I'm just trying to offer some advice here but last thing I want to do is offer wrong advice.

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3.625 for 30 year fixed rate today with no points. I'm tempted to lock it in, but something about the possibility of 3.5 is keeping me from doing it. Anyone in the industry think that it dips to 3.5 this week?

I have been working with Huntington as well, would it be possible if you could you PM the name of the person you are dealing with?
same here please

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Loan type and term: 30 Years Conventional Pay Now Original principal balance: $295,100.00 Transaction history Contractual remaining term: 28 years, 5 months Workout information Interest rate: 4.625% Current principal balance: $287,626.66 Escrow balance: $100.61

Here is my May payment info:

Interest portion: $1,110

Principal: $407

Escrow: $142

Does that help?

Yep. Based on these figures your current P&I pymt. is $1,517.23. Let's work with a new loan amount of 290K rolling the closing costs in, your new P&I pymt. would be $1,322.55 at 3.625% and saving you $195 per month. Your breakeven period based on 2K closing costs would be 10.25 months so since your looking at staying at least 4 years the refi. makes sense. As mentioned from another poster taking a 3.75% or even 3.875% rate and seeing how much of the 2K the mortgage company would cover is another option to consider, post back what they say. As a general rule of thumb for every .25% percent in rate is a plus or minus 1pt., so at 3.75% you could be looking at a reduction in closing costs by $725. At 3.875% $1,450 reduction.
So looks like we're signing tomorrow. The fees are $1500 for the loan processing and $700 for title fees. It's all being rolled into the loan so nothing will be out of pocket. We'll be getting that 3.625% 30 yr fixed with no points and, because our credit is very good, could go down when he looks for bonuses tomorrow. It definitely won't go up. No appraisal fees since they don't need to do an appraisal.

Considering there's nothing out of pocket and our monthly payments will drop by ~$150/month, this is a no-brainer.

Got it for 3.5% fixed on a 30 year. However, because we had our appraisal waived for our last refi less than 2 yrs ago, we actually need to have another one. We were told it doesn't matter if the value drops that the new loan will still be good. Will be interesting to see what the new appraisal comes back at since the original 4 yrs ago when housing prices were all higher. :scared:

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Can anybody explain what lender paid closing costs are? I already have the seller paying the needed costs so don't understand what this piece. Trying to wade through all of this for the first time and the documents seem a bit confusing.

Edited by Slapdash

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Can anybody explain what lender paid closing costs are? I already have the seller paying the needed costs so don't understand what this piece. Trying to wade through all of this for the first time and the documents seem a bit confusing.

Lender-related closing costs that may apply to your loan include the following items: Application Fee: Imposed by your lender or broker, this charge covers the initial costs of processing your loan request and checking your credit report. Estimated cost: $75 to $300, including the cost of the credit report for each applicant.

Loan Origination Fee: Also called underwriting fee, administrative fee, or processing fee, it is charged for the lender's work in evaluating and preparing your mortgage loan. This fee can cover the lender's attorney's fees, document preparation costs, notary fees, etc. Estimated cost: 1% to 1.5% of the loan amount.

Points: A one-time charge imposed by the lender, usually to reduce the interest rate of your loan. One point equals 1% of the loan amount. For example, 1 point on a $100,000 loan would be $1,000. In some cases--especially in refinancing--the points can be financed by adding them to the amount that you borrow. However, if you pay the points at settlement, the points may be deductible on your income taxes in the year they are paid (different deduction rules apply when you refinance or purchase a second home). In your purchase offer, you may want to negotiate with the seller to have the seller pay your points. Estimated cost: 0% to 3% of the loan amount.

Appraisal Fee: This fee pays for an appraisal of the home you want to purchase or refinance. Lenders want to be sure that the property is worth at least as much as the loan amount (ask your lender for a copy of your appraisal). Some lenders and brokers include the appraisal fee as part of the application fee. If you are refinancing and you have had a recent appraisal, some lenders may waive the requirement for a new appraisal. Estimated cost: $300 to $700.

Lender-Required Home Inspection Fees: The lender may require a termite inspection and an analysis of the structural condition of the property by an engineer or consultant. In rural areas, lenders may require a septic system test and a water test to make sure the well and water system will maintain an adequate supply of water for the house (this is usually a test for quantity, not for water quality; your county health department may require a water quality test as well, but this test may be paid for outside of the settlement). Keep in mind that this inspection is for the benefit of the lender; you may want to request your own inspection to make sure the property is in good condition. Estimated costs: $175 to $350.

Prepaid Interest: Interest costs start as soon as you settle, even though your first regular mortgage payment is usually due about 6 to 8 weeks after you settle (for example, if you settle in August, your first regular payment will be due on October 1; the October payment covers the cost of borrowing the money for the month of September). The lender will calculate how much interest you owe for the part of the month in which you settle (for example, if you settle on August 16, you would owe interest for 15 days--August 16 through 31). Estimated cost: Depends on loan amount, interest rate, and the number of days that must be paid for (a $120,000 loan at 6% for 15 days, about $300; a $142,500 loan at 6% for 15 days, about $356).

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Can anybody explain what lender paid closing costs are? I already have the seller paying the needed costs so don't understand what this piece. Trying to wade through all of this for the first time and the documents seem a bit confusing.

Lender-related closing costs that may apply to your loan include the following items: Application Fee: Imposed by your lender or broker, this charge covers the initial costs of processing your loan request and checking your credit report. Estimated cost: $75 to $300, including the cost of the credit report for each applicant.

Loan Origination Fee: Also called underwriting fee, administrative fee, or processing fee, it is charged for the lender's work in evaluating and preparing your mortgage loan. This fee can cover the lender's attorney's fees, document preparation costs, notary fees, etc. Estimated cost: 1% to 1.5% of the loan amount.

Points: A one-time charge imposed by the lender, usually to reduce the interest rate of your loan. One point equals 1% of the loan amount. For example, 1 point on a $100,000 loan would be $1,000. In some cases--especially in refinancing--the points can be financed by adding them to the amount that you borrow. However, if you pay the points at settlement, the points may be deductible on your income taxes in the year they are paid (different deduction rules apply when you refinance or purchase a second home). In your purchase offer, you may want to negotiate with the seller to have the seller pay your points. Estimated cost: 0% to 3% of the loan amount.

Appraisal Fee: This fee pays for an appraisal of the home you want to purchase or refinance. Lenders want to be sure that the property is worth at least as much as the loan amount (ask your lender for a copy of your appraisal). Some lenders and brokers include the appraisal fee as part of the application fee. If you are refinancing and you have had a recent appraisal, some lenders may waive the requirement for a new appraisal. Estimated cost: $300 to $700.

Lender-Required Home Inspection Fees: The lender may require a termite inspection and an analysis of the structural condition of the property by an engineer or consultant. In rural areas, lenders may require a septic system test and a water test to make sure the well and water system will maintain an adequate supply of water for the house (this is usually a test for quantity, not for water quality; your county health department may require a water quality test as well, but this test may be paid for outside of the settlement). Keep in mind that this inspection is for the benefit of the lender; you may want to request your own inspection to make sure the property is in good condition. Estimated costs: $175 to $350.

Prepaid Interest: Interest costs start as soon as you settle, even though your first regular mortgage payment is usually due about 6 to 8 weeks after you settle (for example, if you settle in August, your first regular payment will be due on October 1; the October payment covers the cost of borrowing the money for the month of September). The lender will calculate how much interest you owe for the part of the month in which you settle (for example, if you settle on August 16, you would owe interest for 15 days--August 16 through 31). Estimated cost: Depends on loan amount, interest rate, and the number of days that must be paid for (a $120,000 loan at 6% for 15 days, about $300; a $142,500 loan at 6% for 15 days, about $356).

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3.625 for 30 year fixed rate today with no points. I'm tempted to lock it in, but something about the possibility of 3.5 is keeping me from doing it. Anyone in the industry think that it dips to 3.5 this week?

I have been working with Huntington as well, would it be possible if you could you PM the name of the person you are dealing with?
same here please
PM sent. Slight correction on the rate. It was 3.75 with no points.

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I went ahead and called Wells about refinancing my 20 year/4.75% and was told I could get 3.25 with zero points on a 15 year loan. They said there would be $3400 in closing costs. No biggy I figured, it's paying 2 months of payments to remove nearly 4 years from my loan, and figured I'd just pay cash. However, I just got the good faith estimate packet in the mail and it has $6314.14 in the "Total Estimated Settlement Charges" box. That can't be right, can it? What sort of closing costs should I be expecting for this sort of refi on a <> $200,000 loan?

Just curious what led you to doing a 20 year loan in the first place? I've been doing loans for a long time and don't think I've put anyone on a 20 year note in the last 10+years. In that time frame I think I've put someone on one 10 year note and it was against my advice. The 20 year note rate is usually very very similar to the 30 year note rate. The 10 year note rate is usually very similar to the 15 year note rate. So someone doing a 10 or 20 year note is sacrificing financial flexibility for next to nothing in terms of rate improvement. It's a good thing the WF rep turned you on to the 15 year note instead.
I was on a 30 year at 5.5%, and the Wells Fargo specialist I met with said it would be iffy to refi to a 15 with my equity usage. Based on running numbers informally, he said I'd have no problem getting instant ok on a 20 year @ 4.25, with zero closing costs. He said I may or may not be approved for the 15 year no cost under the Obama plan... much more due diligence, formal appraisal, there were just some technical requirements for that type of refi, according to him. So, there was an immediate interest savings if I never pursued a 15, and no harm. Maybe I wasn't given full facts but seemed like a no brainer to me to trim 6 years from my loan and get a lower APR with no appraisal or close.

In terms of your question. Big difference in settlement fees versus closing costs. Settlement fees, as I think Dragons pointed out, take into account escrow and odd days interest. These are not and should not be considered closing costs. These are not fees you are paying anyone for a service, it's just going towards YOUR taxes and insurance and the interest on YOUR loan. When you pay money out for these things don't think of it as "losing" money. If you have a current escrow account that does not transfer over when you refinance you get it refunded to you within 30 days of loan payoff. Closing costs are a different animal entirely and that is something that you and everyone doing a loan should focus on. These are hard costs paid to someone else for a service. This is real costs to you. So total settlement fees are not real costs to you, only the portion that is "closing costs".

I see what you are saying... and thanks for the info. I'm going to call Wells to get some more info. Taking the document I received at face value, all of these were considered 'costs' to me because the loan amount suggested on the form was [current balance + >$6000] which I interpreted as adding all of these costs into my new loan. My impression was that's clearly a cost to me. Edited by BigJim®

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george

3.375% with no points is a great rate on a 30yr fixed are there any origination fees attached?

Also menobrown makes a great point with respect to closing costs. When comparing mortgage companies always look at comparing their "closing costs"

Currently 30 yr rates are trending a little down right now and a 3.5% is out there and even 3.375% is not unheard of with right credit scores, equity & loan amount. 15 yr is stuck at 2.75%.

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Any FBG mortgage brokers able to do loans in CT? I'm looking for a FHA streamline refinance with bank paid closing costs.

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george

3.375% with no points is a great rate on a 30yr fixed are there any origination fees attached?

Also menobrown makes a great point with respect to closing costs. When comparing mortgage companies always look at comparing their "closing costs"

Currently 30 yr rates are trending a little down right now and a 3.5% is out there and even 3.375% is not unheard of with right credit scores, equity & loan amount. 15 yr is stuck at 2.75%.

Part of me is bummed that I locked at 2.99%, but as of the end of June I won't have any verifiable income for a while, so I probably got in about as low as I could have.

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Where are you seeing 3.375% with no points for a 30 year? I've got a credit score in the 800s, but the lowest I've seen (i.e. bankrate) is something in the mid 3.6 but with points.

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Where are you seeing 3.375% with no points for a 30 year? I've got a credit score in the 800s, but the lowest I've seen (i.e. bankrate) is something in the mid 3.6 but with points.

3.375% can exist under the right circumstances but it's not easy to find. On the other hand 3.5% for most loans with decent amounts and good credit scores should not be that challenging to locate today.You guys need to keep this mind when comparing interest rates that someone says they got. There are a ton of factors that go into setting up the rate. It's not as easy as simple rate that just exists for all loans.Here's a summary of the main items that impact rates:*Credit score*Percentage of loan in relation to value of home or for purchase loans percentage of down payment*State property is located*loan type (FHA,VA, Conventional, jumbo)*Waiving escrows so you can pay our own taxes and insurance*If the loan is designated as a cash out*Loan size*Amount of days needed to lock the loan*Lender fees. A point is a point but "junk" fees differ among lenders and can impact the rate they are able to offer.I'm probably forgetting an item or two but all of these factors can impact the rate you are able to obtain.

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Where are you seeing 3.375% with no points for a 30 year? I've got a credit score in the 800s, but the lowest I've seen (i.e. bankrate) is something in the mid 3.6 but with points.

Here in FL. Check your Newspaper usually Sunday Real Estate section for mortgage companies advertising their rates. Rates could vary from state to state but I see no reason w/o pts to get at least 3.5%. I know I can lock new 30yr clients in at 3.5% and depending on loan amount, scores,equity and menobrown's factors 3.375%. Shop around and you'll find it. Edited by towney

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Any FBG mortgage brokers able to do loans in CT? I'm looking for a FHA streamline refinance with bank paid closing costs.

I can do loans every place but New Jersey but I'm a cherry picker and don't like doing FHA loans or loans in states I'm not real familiar doing business. Like last year I did a loan in NY that confused the crap out of me and I regretted having ever agreed to do it. Basically if it's not easy and familiar to me I pass.But I'll offer you this suggestion. Go to Zillow.com and input your loan criteria. When you do you should see box on the right hand side that that says "filter". Check the box labeled "no fees" and hit the filter button. I'm not sure what will show in CT but in most states this will put rates offered by lenders who charge either no fees or go above and beyond that by offering lender credits to towards closing cost. As far as I know Bankrate does not have the option that shows lender rebates but it's been a few years since I advertised on Bankrate so I could be wrong. Again, I don't know what you will find in CT but that's were I'd probably start if I was looking for the kind of loan you are searching for.If you don't find what you are looking for I know my bank has a branch in Old Saybrook and might have multiple branch offices there. If you want send me a PM and I'll give you contact info but I feel the need to add each branch of my bank operates with an independent profit margin structure so I can't attest to the kind of "deal" they would give you. Could be good, could be terrible, I really have no idea except to say I know they are adept at closing loans.

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Any FBG mortgage brokers able to do loans in CT? I'm looking for a FHA streamline refinance with bank paid closing costs.

I can do loans every place but New Jersey but I'm a cherry picker and don't like doing FHA loans or loans in states I'm not real familiar doing business. Like last year I did a loan in NY that confused the crap out of me and I regretted having ever agreed to do it. Basically if it's not easy and familiar to me I pass.But I'll offer you this suggestion. Go to Zillow.com and input your loan criteria. When you do you should see box on the right hand side that that says "filter". Check the box labeled "no fees" and hit the filter button. I'm not sure what will show in CT but in most states this will put rates offered by lenders who charge either no fees or go above and beyond that by offering lender credits to towards closing cost. As far as I know Bankrate does not have the option that shows lender rebates but it's been a few years since I advertised on Bankrate so I could be wrong. Again, I don't know what you will find in CT but that's were I'd probably start if I was looking for the kind of loan you are searching for.If you don't find what you are looking for I know my bank has a branch in Old Saybrook and might have multiple branch offices there. If you want send me a PM and I'll give you contact info but I feel the need to add each branch of my bank operates with an independent profit margin structure so I can't attest to the kind of "deal" they would give you. Could be good, could be terrible, I really have no idea except to say I know they are adept at closing loans.
Thanks for the suggestion and the offer on the Old Saybrook branch. I do have a broker I've worked with a few times over the years that I'm fairly loyal to (he steered me right when I bought my first property - which was away from a loan through him), but he's been very slow at getting back to me over the past couple weeks. I need a specific rate to make things work and his slow responses are causing concern that he won't be in position to lock the rate if it dips there for a short time. If I could give business to an FBG, I'd consider switching my business. He has just now come back to me saying he is prepared to lock the rate if it hits, so I think it's better to wait it out than to test a non-FBG lead. Edited by Dragons

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Today's quote on new purchase in PA:

3.5 for 3/4 point

3.625 for 1/4 point

3.75 with 1/4 pt rebate

3.875 with 5/8 point back

Now to decide which to take....

Any of you mortgage guys have a guess or feeling like rates will drop in the morning?

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