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Eephus

*OFFICIAL* Thread: WIS X and the Cluster of Sim

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Also...how are RPs going to be handled since a lot of times you want the higher $/IP as opposed to pure salary.

It sounded like we were going to let the owner pick his seasons ("cherry pick"), so salary wouldn't come into play.Chalmers has an interesting suggestion that may work too. I haven't looked at any specific players though and I still like the idea of just picking the years.DougB's proposal was that you get the option to move 1 year better a couple of times during the draft like you said in your previous post.Eephus had a suggestion that the number of seasons we pick be reduced as the draft goes on.Yes, the roll would be for two full rounds at a time. Everyone would get the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, etc. However, that could be random if we do it by cherry picking years and sorting by season (i.e. 1961-1967) or not if we go by salary or chalmers' suggestion (3rd highest salary).I think we either need someone to just decide or vote on these things and get rolling (literally!).
As long as we're allowing cherry picking, we should just give the owners the full latitude to select and rank the years, regardless of absolute or normalized WIS salary.For example,1.01 Phil Roof, C, years 70, 72, 75, 67, 66, 71Also, I envisioned individual dice rolls for each player rather than all players in a round (or pair of rounds) getting the same roll. It's easy enough to have Irony Dice run a whole set of rolls at once. Although it might not matter if we let owners sequence the seasons however they want.
Question: Under this scenario one person could get all their #1 seasons while another could get all their #6 seasons, correct?If so, I'm not sure I particularly like that. I think I would like it better if everyone got the same season in each round or if everyone got the same number of #1, 2, 3, etc. seasons otherwise I think you have the possibility that someone gets lucky and completely dominates this thing after getting #1 seasons in the first 4 rounds (and while that may be far fetched its fairly likely someone would get #1 in each of the first two rounds while someone else will get #6 in each of the first two rounds) and then taking so-so players the rest of the way with no vol in their six year performance. Contrast that with someone who get #6 and #6 in the first two rounds. You're basically behind the 8-ball at that point and basically have to start taking high vol guys until you hit upon a couple of #1s. In sum, whoever rolls best first will end up with a huge advantage in drafting even before sim performance gets taken into account. And yeah, I know that's part of the fun, but if someone takes the Babe and rolls a 1 while you take someone else and roll a 6, well there isn't any real way you're going to be competitive. At least if every pick in a round gets the same "season", you eliminate some of that uneven-ness. I guess its a matter of degree, but eephus's way may yield some "dead" teams (for lack of a better word).

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I guess its a matter of degree, but eephus's way may yield some "dead" teams (for lack of a better word).

The only way to combat this is to randomize the seasons you cherry-pick. :)

I kind of like the idea of the same roll covering a full round, though (as opposed to two rounds).

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Why dont we just have everyone draft 25 players. Then we take the 25 and we put an order for each of them.

Example:

Player 1 70, 72, 73, 74, 75, 78

Player 2 ............

Player 3 ............

Then you roll your 25 numbers, say you get 4 1's, 3 2's, 5 3's, 6 4's, 4 5's and 4 6's. You pick which player you use your 1's on and they are eliminated, then you pick which player's are going to be your 2's, and so on....

By doing it this way people get to cherry pick and there is some luck involved.

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I guess its a matter of degree, but eephus's way may yield some "dead" teams (for lack of a better word).

The only way to combat this is to randomize the seasons you cherry-pick. :lmao:

I kind of like the idea of the same roll covering a full round, though (as opposed to two rounds).

That's fine but as long as we allow owners to rank their seasons 1-6 by whatever criteria they see fit, it won't have a significant effect on competitive balance.

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I guess its a matter of degree, but eephus's way may yield some "dead" teams (for lack of a better word).

The only way to combat this is to randomize the seasons you cherry-pick. :lmao:

I kind of like the idea of the same roll covering a full round, though (as opposed to two rounds).

That's fine but as long as we allow owners to rank their seasons 1-6 by whatever criteria they see fit, it won't have a significant effect on competitive balance.
Wouldn't ranking the 6 seasons from earliest year to latest year accomplish that?

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Why dont we just have everyone draft 25 players. Then we take the 25 and we put an order for each of them.Example:Player 1 70, 72, 73, 74, 75, 78Player 2 ............Player 3 ............Then you roll your 25 numbers, say you get 4 1's, 3 2's, 5 3's, 6 4's, 4 5's and 4 6's. You pick which player you use your 1's on and they are eliminated, then you pick which player's are going to be your 2's, and so on....By doing it this way people get to cherry pick and there is some luck involved.

I like this idea.

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Why dont we just have everyone draft 25 players. Then we take the 25 and we put an order for each of them.Example:Player 1 70, 72, 73, 74, 75, 78Player 2 ............Player 3 ............Then you roll your 25 numbers, say you get 4 1's, 3 2's, 5 3's, 6 4's, 4 5's and 4 6's. You pick which player you use your 1's on and they are eliminated, then you pick which player's are going to be your 2's, and so on....By doing it this way people get to cherry pick and there is some luck involved.

The problem with this is that it will hinder the whole goal of drafting all-time great players rather than sim-fishing.You can still draft a super fish like Dutch Leonard in the 2nd or 3rd round and know you're going to budget one of the 1's you roll for him.

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Why dont we just have everyone draft 25 players. Then we take the 25 and we put an order for each of them.Example:Player 1 70, 72, 73, 74, 75, 78Player 2 ............Player 3 ............Then you roll your 25 numbers, say you get 4 1's, 3 2's, 5 3's, 6 4's, 4 5's and 4 6's. You pick which player you use your 1's on and they are eliminated, then you pick which player's are going to be your 2's, and so on....By doing it this way people get to cherry pick and there is some luck involved.

The problem with this is that it will hinder the whole goal of drafting all-time great players rather than sim-fishing.You can still draft a super fish like Dutch Leonard in the 2nd or 3rd round and know you're going to budget one of the 1's you roll for him.
Agree. The other problem with deferring all dice rolls to the end of the draft is the natural dynamic of the late rounds. By the time round #25 rolls around, everybody is itching to enter their teams and start simming. Rolling 600 dice at the end would be as chaotic and prone to corruption as a Zimbabwean election. I have the same basic problem with DougB's mulligan idea, unless we use them as we go.It'll be a big mistake if we don't keep up with dice rolls and declaring player seasons as we go.

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Agree.

The other problem with deferring all dice rolls to the end of the draft is the natural dynamic of the late rounds. By the time round #25 rolls around, everybody is itching to enter their teams and start simming. Rolling 600 dice at the end would be as chaotic and prone to corruption as a Zimbabwean election. I have the same basic problem with DougB's mulligan idea, unless we use them as we go.

It'll be a big mistake if we don't keep up with dice rolls and declaring player seasons as we go.

:shrug:

Maybe declare all mulligans by the 20th round? Or something like that?

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Agree.

The other problem with deferring all dice rolls to the end of the draft is the natural dynamic of the late rounds. By the time round #25 rolls around, everybody is itching to enter their teams and start simming. Rolling 600 dice at the end would be as chaotic and prone to corruption as a Zimbabwean election. I have the same basic problem with DougB's mulligan idea, unless we use them as we go.

It'll be a big mistake if we don't keep up with dice rolls and declaring player seasons as we go.

:hey:

Maybe declare all mulligans by the 20th round? Or something like that?

The only way I see mulligans as being practical is if we can agree on a quantitative way of ranking possible player seasons (e.g. WIS salary, salary/PA). Otherwise, we'll have no way to determine what year they get when someone upgrades from their player's sixth best season. Although it's a well intentioned rule, I think it'll be more trouble than it's worth in practice.

An all-time draft pool is deep enough to allow recovery from a couple of bad rolls. Everybody wanted randomization in this format but the more we debate it, the more hedging that goes on.

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The only way I see mulligans as being practical is if we can agree on a quantitative way of ranking possible player seasons (e.g. WIS salary, salary/PA).

:thumbup:

I had assumed that drafters would be giving self-determined quantitative season rankings when they made their picks. IOW, a pick would look like this:

1.01 Phil Roof, C

Years (in order): 70, 72, 75, 67, 66, 71

Pretty much just like what you posted below. So if they got 1971 by dice roll, they could take a mulligan, and change it into 1966.

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Stop being #######. EMBRACE THE RISK!

That's where I am with is. If we're gonna do it, let's go all out.Pick six seasons, roll after each round. Simple as that. Really don't even have to rank them, could just list chronologically.Every hypothetical to eliminate the risk comes with its own problems and adds to cluster potential.

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The only way I see mulligans as being practical is if we can agree on a quantitative way of ranking possible player seasons (e.g. WIS salary, salary/PA).

:popcorn:

I had assumed that drafters would be giving self-determined quantitative season rankings when they made their picks. IOW, a pick would look like this:

1.01 Phil Roof, C

Years (in order): 70, 72, 75, 67, 66, 71

Pretty much just like what you posted below. So if they got 1971 by dice roll, they could take a mulligan, and change it into 1966.

Someone could manipulate this and rank all their best seasons fifth, so they could mulligan from a 6 to a 1.

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The more I think about this, the more I think we should try to keep this as simple as possible.

Select a player

Choose six seasons, no less, no more

Sequence the six seasons in whatever order you want

Announce the player pick

Roll the dice

Post the player and year

Ranking the seasons adds another layer of unneeded complexity. It's much easier to select the top six seasons of a player's career without burning additional cycles to decide whether 1926 was better than 1923. It's nothing but overanalysis when the year will ultimately be determined by a virtual dice roll. If you want Shane Spencer, you have a 1 in 6 chance of getting the freak season.

No mulligans, no adjustments, no dice changes, roll when you pick. If the rolls turn out to be a momentum killer, maybe we can defer them all to the end of the round.

You'll thank me later.

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The more I think about this, the more I think we should try to keep this as simple as possible.Select a playerChoose six seasons, no less, no moreSequence the six seasons in whatever order you wantAnnounce the player pickRoll the dicePost the player and yearRanking the seasons adds another layer of unneeded complexity. It's much easier to select the top six seasons of a player's career without burning additional cycles to decide whether 1926 was better than 1923. It's nothing but overanalysis when the year will ultimately be determined by a virtual dice roll. If you want Shane Spencer, you have a 1 in 6 chance of getting the freak season.No mulligans, no adjustments, no dice changes, roll when you pick. If the rolls turn out to be a momentum killer, maybe we can defer them all to the end of the round.You'll thank me later.

I will thank you now. This sounds good and I think it will work. Pick the player list the years post send the roll to someone and we are are already on to the next pick. Lets get this started.

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Stop being #######. EMBRACE THE RISK!

That's where I am with is. If we're gonna do it, let's go all out.Pick six seasons, roll after each round. Simple as that. Really don't even have to rank them, could just list chronologically.Every hypothetical to eliminate the risk comes with its own problems and adds to cluster potential.
WELCOME ABOARD

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The more I think about this, the more I think we should try to keep this as simple as possible.Select a playerChoose six seasons, no less, no moreSequence the six seasons in whatever order you wantAnnounce the player pickRoll the dicePost the player and yearRanking the seasons adds another layer of unneeded complexity. It's much easier to select the top six seasons of a player's career without burning additional cycles to decide whether 1926 was better than 1923. It's nothing but overanalysis when the year will ultimately be determined by a virtual dice roll. If you want Shane Spencer, you have a 1 in 6 chance of getting the freak season.No mulligans, no adjustments, no dice changes, roll when you pick. If the rolls turn out to be a momentum killer, maybe we can defer them all to the end of the round.You'll thank me later.

WELCOME ABOARD

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Confirmed in:1. Frosticillis2. Marble Rye3. WidBill834. Doctor Detroit5. Greco6. Spartans7. Eephus8. Koya9. Doug B.10. Tremendous Upside11. Super Nintendo Chalmers12. TRE13. ianfitzy14. LB4415. Mr. Phoenix16. The Gator17. Kraft18. SCBF19. SammyPresumed In:Shake ZulaWockenfussInterested?Save FerrisHorvyOthers welcome: no reasonable offer refused

TAP

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The more I think about this, the more I think we should try to keep this as simple as possible.Select a playerChoose six seasons, no less, no moreSequence the six seasons in whatever order you wantAnnounce the player pickRoll the dicePost the player and yearRanking the seasons adds another layer of unneeded complexity. It's much easier to select the top six seasons of a player's career without burning additional cycles to decide whether 1926 was better than 1923. It's nothing but overanalysis when the year will ultimately be determined by a virtual dice roll. If you want Shane Spencer, you have a 1 in 6 chance of getting the freak season.No mulligans, no adjustments, no dice changes, roll when you pick. If the rolls turn out to be a momentum killer, maybe we can defer them all to the end of the round.You'll thank me later.

WELCOME ABOARD
Exactly. If you get to cherry pick 6 years, the best players WONT have any duds in there anyway. I personally like having the "get screwed" factor (which would happen in consecutive years, but not so much in cherry picked) because it reflects what real baseball is like, but like I said before, yall are a bunch of pansy ahssed pooosies.

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Confirmed in:1. Frosticillis2. Marble Rye3. WidBill834. Doctor Detroit5. Greco6. Spartans7. Eephus8. Koya9. Doug B.10. Tremendous Upside11. Super Nintendo Chalmers12. TRE13. ianfitzy14. LB4415. Mr. Phoenix16. The Gator17. Kraft18. SCBF19. SammyPresumed In:Shake ZulaWockenfussInterested?Save FerrisHorvyOthers welcome: no reasonable offer refused

TAP
Getting closer. Id be stoked to see Ferris (and Oso) in this thing. Besides, we havent had someone (and their rankings) to idolize since the fall of Harrrrrrr.

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If you get to cherry pick 6 years, the best players WONT have any duds in there anyway.

The very best players, yes ... but I'm learning from the other draft that after about the first 30 or 40 guys, almost no major-leaguers had 6 elite seasons. There's a lot of "4 elite and 7 OK seasons" out there.

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Rolling after every pick will slow things down a lot ... but it might be worth it for verisimilitude. One thing that would help is if multiple people can receive the dice roll, so that you're not waiting for one person to confirm.

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After thinking about this some, I think the best way to do this is probably just have people pick their favorite 6 seasons, list them chronologically and then roll for the season. That way you eliminate someone going on a ridiculous roll early (ie rolling 1,1,1,1,1 in the first 5 rounds) and running away with it. Plus that way we won't get in fights about how people rank the years.

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That way you eliminate someone going on a ridiculous roll early (ie rolling 1,1,1,1,1 in the first 5 rounds) and running away with it.

Strictly, that can't be prevented. Going chronologically, rolling 5,3,4,4,1 could just as well be all best seasons.

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That way you eliminate someone going on a ridiculous roll early (ie rolling 1,1,1,1,1 in the first 5 rounds) and running away with it.

Strictly, that can't be prevented. Going chronologically, rolling 5,3,4,4,1 could just as well be all best seasons.
Oh I know that...I just find it happening that way a lot less objectionable (for some non-sensical reason) than someone rolling a bunch of 1s in a row.

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Sounds like everyone is on the same page now. Let's fill this puppy up.

I can get on board with the "no mulligans" system. Especially if every pick gets a roll.

Don't forget to work out dice-roll protocol before the picking starts. For instance:

To be valid, the dice roll e-mail subject line must have (a) the draft pick number, (b) the player name, and (c ) the six seasons in order from left to right. One or more participants are going to have many dozens of e-mails in their inbox ... need to make them as clear and easy to wade through as possible.

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Sounds like everyone is on the same page now. Let's fill this puppy up.

I can get on board with the "no mulligans" system. Especially if every pick gets a roll.

Don't forget to work out dice-roll protocol before the picking starts. For instance:

To be valid, the dice roll e-mail subject line must have (a) the draft pick number, (b) the player name, and (c ) the six seasons in order from left to right. One or more participants are going to have many dozens of e-mails in their inbox ... need to make them as clear and easy to wade through as possible.

I like it.

Idea: Should I just create GMAIL account that we can all email to? I'll just share the password....

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Sounds like everyone is on the same page now. Let's fill this puppy up.

I can get on board with the "no mulligans" system. Especially if every pick gets a roll.

Don't forget to work out dice-roll protocol before the picking starts. For instance:

To be valid, the dice roll e-mail subject line must have (a) the draft pick number, (b) the player name, and (c ) the six seasons in order from left to right. One or more participants are going to have many dozens of e-mails in their inbox ... need to make them as clear and easy to wade through as possible.

I like it.

Idea: Should I just create GMAIL account that we can all email to? I'll just share the password....

The passowrd is.....STOMACHPUNCH

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Since I'm going to be gone next week...is there someone that wants my roll so that everyone can start to formulate their strategies.

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Idea: Should I just create GMAIL account that we can all email to? I'll just share the password....

Very good idea.

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Since I'm going to be gone next week...is there someone that wants my roll so that everyone can start to formulate their strategies.

You can send it to WISRUTHROLL@GMAIL.com

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thanks for the invite, T.R.E., but i'll be on vacation for 12 days starting next Thursday. wouldn't want to take up vacation time checking out FBG, even for you guys. if y'all are going to debate dice rolls and whatnot until i get back, then i'd be up for it, especially with Eephus running it.

I don't like Sim-fishing drafts, and didn't like how WIS accounted for era-adjustments (are they any better now?), but i do enjoy the alltime ranking aspect of it. I also like the take-your-chance-out-of-6-seasons aspect (even though i have no idea what you guys are talking about with the random dice roll thing - couldn't you just find an uninvolved party and have them spit out a series of random numbers in Excel?).

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Since I'm going to be gone next week...is there someone that wants my roll so that everyone can start to formulate their strategies.

You can send it to WISRUTHROLL@GMAIL.com
I think I broke the irony server :rolleyes:

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thanks for the invite, T.R.E., but i'll be on vacation for 12 days starting next Thursday. wouldn't want to take up vacation time checking out FBG, even for you guys. if y'all are going to debate dice rolls and whatnot until i get back, then i'd be up for it, especially with Eephus running it.

I don't like Sim-fishing drafts, and didn't like how WIS accounted for era-adjustments (are they any better now?), but i do enjoy the alltime ranking aspect of it. I also like the take-your-chance-out-of-6-seasons aspect (even though i have no idea what you guys are talking about with the random dice roll thing - couldn't you just find an uninvolved party and have them spit out a series of random numbers in Excel?).

Clearly that would be easier, but we're in it for the clusterf$#!$ potential and to roll a dice 25 times.

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Since I'm going to be gone next week...is there someone that wants my roll so that everyone can start to formulate their strategies.

You can send it to WISRUTHROLL@GMAIL.com
I think I broke the irony server :rolleyes:
How ironic

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I can't draft until the 9th. I will bow out if needed.

Sammy is also out next week. Oso diablo leaves on the 5th. Maybe a partnership could work here.We've managed to get through summer drafts before, haven't we? If we don't start pretty soon, we're probably going to lose people around the 4th of July.

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Sammy and oso should be given a chance. Why not just set the date right after that and people will have to adjust?

ETA that frosti guy too

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Do you need me? Is this full? Im in if not.

SWEETChris Iannetta available...
After reading up on this I need to score a partner. This is gonna take a ton of time.

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Irony's still down so if you get going I'll cede my rolling authority to eephus. I'll also send him a list. At the top I've found it surprisingly easy to rank guys.

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I'd be interested in joining. Wouldn't oppose having a partner either.

Yes please. I only joined because I was wicked high and had no idea what I was getting into, lol.

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I'd be interested in joining. Wouldn't oppose having a partner either.

Yes please. I only joined because I was wicked high and had no idea what I was getting into, lol.
I can see your first 3 picks now:1st round: Rickey Henderson2nd round: Lou Brock3rd round: Michael Bourn

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I'd be interested in joining. Wouldn't oppose having a partner either.

Yes please. I only joined because I was wicked high and had no idea what I was getting into, lol.
I can see your first 3 picks now:1st round: Rickey Henderson2nd round: Lou Brock3rd round: Michael Bourn
I actually didn't take any big speed guys in the all time draft.

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