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If Torry Holt really is done...is he a Hall of Famer? (1 Viewer)

If Torry Holt really is done...is he a Hall of Famer?

  • Yes

    Votes: 54 52.4%
  • No

    Votes: 49 47.6%

  • Total voters
    103

Ghost Rider

Footballguy
Given the problems with his knee, and the fact that he cannot get separation anymore from DBs, Torry Holt's career could very well be on the downside. If not, I will give him mad props when he returns to form, but fate is probably not on his side.

Anyhow, the question is:

Is he a Hall of Famer?

Tough call. Examining his profile:

-6 consecutive seasons of 1,300 yards or more

-Led the NFL in receiving yards twice and has finished in the top five 2 other times

-15th all-time in receiving yards

-Having been probably the best WR on an offense that was so dominant for multiple seasons will work in his favor; some will say he benefited by playing in an offense like that, but I would argue that the offense was so good because of a guy like Holt...notice that the offense actually got more productive in '00 and '01 as Holt got better

-7 time Pro Bowler (I do not put much stock in to how many Pro Bowls a player made, but many do, and having made 7 will definitely work in his favor)

-Led the NFL in receptions once and finished in the top five 3 other times

-72 TD receptions, which is currently 26th all-time

-Most would agree that, from '00-'05, he was one of the top three or four WRs in the NFL, and being at the top of your position for that long of a period is definitely a credit, as opposed to being a guy who put up great career numbers but was never really one of the absolute best at his position (which would describe a guy like Jimmy Smith)

What say you?

 
I started to bold some of the numbers you posted to emphasize my yes vote. But it would end up being most of them.

Holt is not that old and if he can get that knee to work right he could definitely add to his impressive totals and be a shoo-in. As it stands he walks in with no apologies.

 
If Holt retired today he would eventually make it into the hall. If he and Marvin would've switched teams, they would've had the opposite figures.

 
A really good receiver. One of the better ones of his time. But not one of the true best of his time, imo - a half notch below.

He played in a bigtime offensive era, in a great system, with a true HoFer on the other side of him. Really really good player, but not quite HoF imo.

 
A really good receiver. One of the better ones of his time. But not one of the true best of his time, imo - a half notch below. He played in a bigtime offensive era, in a great system, with a true HoFer on the other side of him. Really really good player, but not quite HoF imo.
BS. Lemme list some stats for you:1974 thru 1982 - 336 catches, 5462 yds, 51 TD's - Inducted into HOF1974 thru 1987 - 537 catches, 8723 yds, 63 TD's - Inducted into HOF1998 thru 2007 - 805 catches, 11864 yds, 71 TD's1994 thru 2007 - 942 catches, 14109 yds, 84 TD'sThe stats for the 2 guys already inducted are Lynn Swann and John Stallworth. The second set of stats are obviously for Holt and Bruce. At this point, Holt has played 1 more more season than Swann, yet he has nearly 500 more receptions during that timeframe, and has twice the yardage. To say Holt will not make the HOF is insane. He is a lock, unless he commits murder.
 
A really good receiver. One of the better ones of his time. But not one of the true best of his time, imo - a half notch below. He played in a bigtime offensive era, in a great system, with a true HoFer on the other side of him. Really really good player, but not quite HoF imo.
BS. Lemme list some stats for you:1974 thru 1982 - 336 catches, 5462 yds, 51 TD's - Inducted into HOF1974 thru 1987 - 537 catches, 8723 yds, 63 TD's - Inducted into HOF1998 thru 2007 - 805 catches, 11864 yds, 71 TD's1994 thru 2007 - 942 catches, 14109 yds, 84 TD'sThe stats for the 2 guys already inducted are Lynn Swann and John Stallworth. The second set of stats are obviously for Holt and Bruce. At this point, Holt has played 1 more more season than Swann, yet he has nearly 500 more receptions during that timeframe, and has twice the yardage. To say Holt will not make the HOF is insane. He is a lock, unless he commits murder.
Impressive numbers, but also in a different generation with vastly different rules and tendencies with more games per season.
 
A really good receiver. One of the better ones of his time. But not one of the true best of his time, imo - a half notch below. He played in a bigtime offensive era, in a great system, with a true HoFer on the other side of him. Really really good player, but not quite HoF imo.
BS. Lemme list some stats for you:1974 thru 1982 - 336 catches, 5462 yds, 51 TD's - Inducted into HOF1974 thru 1987 - 537 catches, 8723 yds, 63 TD's - Inducted into HOF1998 thru 2007 - 805 catches, 11864 yds, 71 TD's1994 thru 2007 - 942 catches, 14109 yds, 84 TD'sThe stats for the 2 guys already inducted are Lynn Swann and John Stallworth. The second set of stats are obviously for Holt and Bruce. At this point, Holt has played 1 more more season than Swann, yet he has nearly 500 more receptions during that timeframe, and has twice the yardage. To say Holt will not make the HOF is insane. He is a lock, unless he commits murder.
Impressive numbers, but also in a different generation with vastly different rules and tendencies with more games per season.
Nope, I don't buy it...1971 thru 1984 - 590 catches, 8985 yards, 79 TD's - Not inducted into HOFHarold Carmichael, who played in the same era as Swann and Stallworth, and he was a quasi WR/TE.Let me know if you want more examples...
 
A really good receiver. One of the better ones of his time. But not one of the true best of his time, imo - a half notch below. He played in a bigtime offensive era, in a great system, with a true HoFer on the other side of him. Really really good player, but not quite HoF imo.
BS. Lemme list some stats for you:1974 thru 1982 - 336 catches, 5462 yds, 51 TD's - Inducted into HOF1974 thru 1987 - 537 catches, 8723 yds, 63 TD's - Inducted into HOF1998 thru 2007 - 805 catches, 11864 yds, 71 TD's1994 thru 2007 - 942 catches, 14109 yds, 84 TD'sThe stats for the 2 guys already inducted are Lynn Swann and John Stallworth. The second set of stats are obviously for Holt and Bruce. At this point, Holt has played 1 more more season than Swann, yet he has nearly 500 more receptions during that timeframe, and has twice the yardage. To say Holt will not make the HOF is insane. He is a lock, unless he commits murder.
When you play on teams that win 4 SB's in that short of a time frame and you're a strong contributor to those wins you increase your stock versus compiling stats.And Swann's TD/Catch ratio >>> Holts.
 
A really good receiver. One of the better ones of his time. But not one of the true best of his time, imo - a half notch below. He played in a bigtime offensive era, in a great system, with a true HoFer on the other side of him. Really really good player, but not quite HoF imo.
BS. Lemme list some stats for you:1974 thru 1982 - 336 catches, 5462 yds, 51 TD's - Inducted into HOF1974 thru 1987 - 537 catches, 8723 yds, 63 TD's - Inducted into HOF1998 thru 2007 - 805 catches, 11864 yds, 71 TD's1994 thru 2007 - 942 catches, 14109 yds, 84 TD'sThe stats for the 2 guys already inducted are Lynn Swann and John Stallworth. The second set of stats are obviously for Holt and Bruce. At this point, Holt has played 1 more more season than Swann, yet he has nearly 500 more receptions during that timeframe, and has twice the yardage. To say Holt will not make the HOF is insane. He is a lock, unless he commits murder.
When you play on teams that win 4 SB's in that short of a time frame and you're a strong contributor to those wins you increase your stock versus compiling stats.And Swann's TD/Catch ratio >>> Holts.
Swann is one of the most overrated players in the HOF. 336 catches in a 9 yr career averages out to 37 catches per season. His 5462 yds averages out to 607 yards per season. His 51 TD's average out to 5.7 per season. Slice it any way you want, but Swann's avg season was 37/607/6. The dude finished as a top-10 FF'er in 3 of his 9 seasons. His next closest finish was WR23. Holt, who, it has as already been stated has played in a stronger WR era, has finished as a top-10 FF'er in 6 of his 10 seasons. Any more questions?
 
A really good receiver. One of the better ones of his time. But not one of the true best of his time, imo - a half notch below.

He played in a bigtime offensive era, in a great system, with a true HoFer on the other side of him. Really really good player, but not quite HoF imo.
BS. Lemme list some stats for you:1974 thru 1982 - 336 catches, 5462 yds, 51 TD's - Inducted into HOF

1974 thru 1987 - 537 catches, 8723 yds, 63 TD's - Inducted into HOF

1998 thru 2007 - 805 catches, 11864 yds, 71 TD's

1994 thru 2007 - 942 catches, 14109 yds, 84 TD's

The stats for the 2 guys already inducted are Lynn Swann and John Stallworth. The second set of stats are obviously for Holt and Bruce. At this point, Holt has played 1 more more season than Swann, yet he has nearly 500 more receptions during that timeframe, and has twice the yardage. To say Holt will not make the HOF is insane. He is a lock, unless he commits murder.
When you play on teams that win 4 SB's in that short of a time frame and you're a strong contributor to those wins you increase your stock versus compiling stats.And Swann's TD/Catch ratio >>> Holts.
Swann is one of the most overrated players in the HOF. 336 catches in a 9 yr career averages out to 37 catches per season. His 5462 yds averages out to 607 yards per season. His 51 TD's average out to 5.7 per season. Slice it any way you want, but Swann's avg season was 37/607/6. The dude finished as a top-10 FF'er in 3 of his 9 seasons. His next closest finish was WR23. Holt, who, it has as already been stated has played in a stronger WR era, has finished as a top-10 FF'er in 6 of his 10 seasons. Any more questions?
Yeah. WTF does HOF have to do with FF?
 
Given the problems with his knee, and the fact that he cannot get separation anymore from DBs, Torry Holt's career could very well be on the downside. If not, I will give him mad props when he returns to form, but fate is probably not on his side.

Anyhow, the question is:

Is he a Hall of Famer?

Tough call. Examining his profile:

-6 consecutive seasons of 1,300 yards or more

-Led the NFL in receiving yards twice and has finished in the top five 2 other times

-15th all-time in receiving yards

-Having been probably the best WR on an offense that was so dominant for multiple seasons will work in his favor; some will say he benefited by playing in an offense like that, but I would argue that the offense was so good because of a guy like Holt...notice that the offense actually got more productive in '00 and '01 as Holt got better

-7 time Pro Bowler (I do not put much stock in to how many Pro Bowls a player made, but many do, and having made 7 will definitely work in his favor)

-Led the NFL in receptions once and finished in the top five 3 other times

-72 TD receptions, which is currently 26th all-time

-Most would agree that, from '00-'05, he was one of the top three or four WRs in the NFL, and being at the top of your position for that long of a period is definitely a credit, as opposed to being a guy who put up great career numbers but was never really one of the absolute best at his position (which would describe a guy like Jimmy Smith)

What say you?
As of right now, I do not think that he makes it. Art Monk was THE leading receiver when he retired and he had to wait forever to get in. Holt lives in a world where a receivers stats are inflated overall. Most of the voters on the Hall panel are old school and Torry really hasn't been head and shoulders over the rest. (possibly Harrison, Moss, TO.) You also have Keenan McCardell, Jimmy Smith, and Irving Fryar ahead of him on the All-Time list. Hardly HOFer's.

 
He's not even close given the standard for HOF WR's.

Torry was never THE top reciever in the league in any year he played. Lots of guys alongside him who will be considered big time wides, and I'd bet they wait a year or a few to get in amongst T.O., Moss and Marvin.

Maybe it was a byproduct of his skill, but I always felt Holt was somewhat of a statistical disappointment. Hell, even in fantasy, there were only a handful of years you could count on him as a WR1.

 
He's not even close given the standard for HOF WR's. Torry was never THE top reciever in the league in any year he played. Lots of guys alongside him who will be considered big time wides, and I'd bet they wait a year or a few to get in amongst T.O., Moss and Marvin. Maybe it was a byproduct of his skill, but I always felt Holt was somewhat of a statistical disappointment. Hell, even in fantasy, there were only a handful of years you could count on him as a WR1.
How long have you followed FF? For 8 straight yrs from 2000 thru 2007 he averaged over 94 catches for 1385 yards and 8 TD's. WTF are you looking for in a WR1? BTW, he finished as a top-8 WR in 6 of those years. And the 2 crappy seasons he finished outside the top, he finished as WR13 and WR15.
 
He's not even close given the standard for HOF WR's. Torry was never THE top reciever in the league in any year he played. Lots of guys alongside him who will be considered big time wides, and I'd bet they wait a year or a few to get in amongst T.O., Moss and Marvin. Maybe it was a byproduct of his skill, but I always felt Holt was somewhat of a statistical disappointment. Hell, even in fantasy, there were only a handful of years you could count on him as a WR1.
How long have you followed FF? For 8 straight yrs from 2000 thru 2007 he averaged over 94 catches for 1385 yards and 8 TD's. WTF are you looking for in a WR1? BTW, he finished as a top-8 WR in 6 of those years. And the 2 crappy seasons he finished outside the top, he finished as WR13 and WR15.
I've followed it long enough that TDs count in the older leagues that I play in, and 8 TDs leaves him with the Joe Horns and Hines Wards of the world. Not bad numbers, but I'd say he he almost never outperformed his draftslot as the 3rd to 5th reciever off the board in those seasons. What do I want out of my number one? 1200 yards and 10 TDs. He only met that standard twice in his career and was fairly close a 3rd time. For christsakes, am I the only guy that owned him in his 4 TD season? The guy was more defined by dissappointment than success. How do you have 91 catches for 1300 yards in the greatest show on turf and only hit paydirt 4 times? It seem illogical. The guy was a very solid player, a very deserving all pro, but the Art Monk situation pretty much set the standard for HOF recievers to me. I mean, is he going in ahead of Tim Brown? Or Rod Smith? Who were better players? Holt, racking up yardage in garbage time in what were lackluster teams in his prime seasons? Sure Rod had fewer yards, but I'd say his were bigger, as he played on successful teams that ran the ball when they were ahead. Torry Holt is not better than these guys in my opinion and they'll have a hard time getting in.Hell, Cris Carter isn't in yet. Holt's gonna have a LOT of company fighting to go in with him.
 
He's not even close given the standard for HOF WR's. Torry was never THE top reciever in the league in any year he played. Lots of guys alongside him who will be considered big time wides, and I'd bet they wait a year or a few to get in amongst T.O., Moss and Marvin. Maybe it was a byproduct of his skill, but I always felt Holt was somewhat of a statistical disappointment. Hell, even in fantasy, there were only a handful of years you could count on him as a WR1.
How long have you followed FF? For 8 straight yrs from 2000 thru 2007 he averaged over 94 catches for 1385 yards and 8 TD's. WTF are you looking for in a WR1? BTW, he finished as a top-8 WR in 6 of those years. And the 2 crappy seasons he finished outside the top, he finished as WR13 and WR15.
I've followed it long enough that TDs count in the older leagues that I play in, and 8 TDs leaves him with the Joe Horns and Hines Wards of the world. Not bad numbers, but I'd say he he almost never outperformed his draftslot as the 3rd to 5th reciever off the board in those seasons. What do I want out of my number one? 1200 yards and 10 TDs. He only met that standard twice in his career and was fairly close a 3rd time. For christsakes, am I the only guy that owned him in his 4 TD season? The guy was more defined by dissappointment than success. How do you have 91 catches for 1300 yards in the greatest show on turf and only hit paydirt 4 times? It seem illogical. The guy was a very solid player, a very deserving all pro, but the Art Monk situation pretty much set the standard for HOF recievers to me. I mean, is he going in ahead of Tim Brown? Or Rod Smith? Who were better players? Holt, racking up yardage in garbage time in what were lackluster teams in his prime seasons? Sure Rod had fewer yards, but I'd say his were bigger, as he played on successful teams that ran the ball when they were ahead. Torry Holt is not better than these guys in my opinion and they'll have a hard time getting in.Hell, Cris Carter isn't in yet. Holt's gonna have a LOT of company fighting to go in with him.
So, you want 1200 yards and 10 TD's out of your WR1? As you said, Holt hit that mark twice and nearly a 3rd time. How did HOF'er Swann do? Oh yeah, he never even had a 900-yard season. And don't even try to reference past statistics, because many WR's eclipsed Swann during his era. He was the Dominique Wilkins of the NFL. Sure, we have all seen his few superb catches, but in the end he was nothing more than a decent WR on a team dominated by defense. Remember the great PIT defense? Mean Joe Greene, LC Greenwood, Ernie Holmes, Dwight White, Jack Lambert, Jack Ham, Mel Blount, etc.? OK, that was 30 years ago, and you still remember the PIT defense. Now name me the starting D for the 1999 Super bowl champion Rams? Hey, that was less than 10 years ago. I didn't think so!Hell, I could've been a HOF WR for the Steelers in the mid 70's. All I had to do was catch a few passes and watch my defense tear it up. Bradshaw made the HOF with less than a 52% completion percentage. He made the HOF with half as many years leading the league in INT's as he did TD's.
 
A really good receiver. One of the better ones of his time. But not one of the true best of his time, imo - a half notch below. He played in a bigtime offensive era, in a great system, with a true HoFer on the other side of him. Really really good player, but not quite HoF imo.
BS. Lemme list some stats for you:1974 thru 1982 - 336 catches, 5462 yds, 51 TD's - Inducted into HOF1974 thru 1987 - 537 catches, 8723 yds, 63 TD's - Inducted into HOF1998 thru 2007 - 805 catches, 11864 yds, 71 TD's1994 thru 2007 - 942 catches, 14109 yds, 84 TD'sThe stats for the 2 guys already inducted are Lynn Swann and John Stallworth. The second set of stats are obviously for Holt and Bruce. At this point, Holt has played 1 more more season than Swann, yet he has nearly 500 more receptions during that timeframe, and has twice the yardage. To say Holt will not make the HOF is insane. He is a lock, unless he commits murder.
When you play on teams that win 4 SB's in that short of a time frame and you're a strong contributor to those wins you increase your stock versus compiling stats.And Swann's TD/Catch ratio >>> Holts.
Swann is one of the most overrated players in the HOF. 336 catches in a 9 yr career averages out to 37 catches per season. His 5462 yds averages out to 607 yards per season. His 51 TD's average out to 5.7 per season. Slice it any way you want, but Swann's avg season was 37/607/6. The dude finished as a top-10 FF'er in 3 of his 9 seasons. His next closest finish was WR23. Holt, who, it has as already been stated has played in a stronger WR era, has finished as a top-10 FF'er in 6 of his 10 seasons. Any more questions?
Agree... Swann and Stallworth prove that entry into the HOF can be a farce. No way those two should be in. They were in the right place at the right time and snuck in, kind of like Steve Young IMO. HOF entry can be a big joke. You need top production for multiple years and a little gravy on top to get in, unless you they bend the rules for you.
 
A really good receiver. One of the better ones of his time. But not one of the true best of his time, imo - a half notch below. He played in a bigtime offensive era, in a great system, with a true HoFer on the other side of him. Really really good player, but not quite HoF imo.
BS. Lemme list some stats for you:1974 thru 1982 - 336 catches, 5462 yds, 51 TD's - Inducted into HOF1974 thru 1987 - 537 catches, 8723 yds, 63 TD's - Inducted into HOF1998 thru 2007 - 805 catches, 11864 yds, 71 TD's1994 thru 2007 - 942 catches, 14109 yds, 84 TD'sThe stats for the 2 guys already inducted are Lynn Swann and John Stallworth. The second set of stats are obviously for Holt and Bruce. At this point, Holt has played 1 more more season than Swann, yet he has nearly 500 more receptions during that timeframe, and has twice the yardage. To say Holt will not make the HOF is insane. He is a lock, unless he commits murder.
4 Super bowl rings...
 
He's not even close given the standard for HOF WR's. Torry was never THE top reciever in the league in any year he played. Lots of guys alongside him who will be considered big time wides, and I'd bet they wait a year or a few to get in amongst T.O., Moss and Marvin. Maybe it was a byproduct of his skill, but I always felt Holt was somewhat of a statistical disappointment. Hell, even in fantasy, there were only a handful of years you could count on him as a WR1.
How long have you followed FF? For 8 straight yrs from 2000 thru 2007 he averaged over 94 catches for 1385 yards and 8 TD's. WTF are you looking for in a WR1? BTW, he finished as a top-8 WR in 6 of those years. And the 2 crappy seasons he finished outside the top, he finished as WR13 and WR15.
I've followed it long enough that TDs count in the older leagues that I play in, and 8 TDs leaves him with the Joe Horns and Hines Wards of the world. Not bad numbers, but I'd say he he almost never outperformed his draftslot as the 3rd to 5th reciever off the board in those seasons. What do I want out of my number one? 1200 yards and 10 TDs. He only met that standard twice in his career and was fairly close a 3rd time. For christsakes, am I the only guy that owned him in his 4 TD season? The guy was more defined by dissappointment than success. How do you have 91 catches for 1300 yards in the greatest show on turf and only hit paydirt 4 times? It seem illogical. The guy was a very solid player, a very deserving all pro, but the Art Monk situation pretty much set the standard for HOF recievers to me. I mean, is he going in ahead of Tim Brown? Or Rod Smith? Who were better players? Holt, racking up yardage in garbage time in what were lackluster teams in his prime seasons? Sure Rod had fewer yards, but I'd say his were bigger, as he played on successful teams that ran the ball when they were ahead. Torry Holt is not better than these guys in my opinion and they'll have a hard time getting in.Hell, Cris Carter isn't in yet. Holt's gonna have a LOT of company fighting to go in with him.
So, you want 1200 yards and 10 TD's out of your WR1? As you said, Holt hit that mark twice and nearly a 3rd time. How did HOF'er Swann do? Oh yeah, he never even had a 900-yard season. And don't even try to reference past statistics, because many WR's eclipsed Swann during his era. He was the Dominique Wilkins of the NFL. Sure, we have all seen his few superb catches, but in the end he was nothing more than a decent WR on a team dominated by defense. Remember the great PIT defense? Mean Joe Greene, LC Greenwood, Ernie Holmes, Dwight White, Jack Lambert, Jack Ham, Mel Blount, etc.? OK, that was 30 years ago, and you still remember the PIT defense. Now name me the starting D for the 1999 Super bowl champion Rams? Hey, that was less than 10 years ago. I didn't think so!Hell, I could've been a HOF WR for the Steelers in the mid 70's. All I had to do was catch a few passes and watch my defense tear it up. Bradshaw made the HOF with less than a 52% completion percentage. He made the HOF with half as many years leading the league in INT's as he did TD's.
Your argument is all of the place. First off, the biggest slight I sent Torry Holt's way as an NFL player is to point out he's not a hall of famer, based on the level of production of his peers. But as you questioned how long I've played fantasy football, and why I explain why he was a dissppointment to those of us that owned him in touchdown heavy leagues for most of his career, your argument reverts back to Lynn Swann? My 1200/10 standard is a modern plateau, and being that I don't expect to play fantasy football in the 70's, I haven't looked at statistical goals for WR then. Torry Holt played on a pass first/pass happy Martz offense throughout his peak years, on a team that was trailing in the second half a majority of its games after that early 90's run. Swann played on a winning team that led its games over a 14 game season, eliminating most of the garbage time opportunities for him. When he was needed, in the Super Bowls, he was a stellar performer. When Torry Holt becomes the number 1 reciever on 3 more super bowl winners, he'll be in the HOF like Swann. Who I agree is terribly overrated, but probably a deserving HOFer(Stallworth was a bigger question to me). Torry Holt was a very good NFL wide reciever, deserving of HOF consideration, but he'll fall just short. And for most of his career, he was a dissappointing fantasy football player, if you consider that if you're drafting a guy to be lets say the 4th best WR and he gives you the 8th best WR season, that is a letdown.
 
A really good receiver. One of the better ones of his time. But not one of the true best of his time, imo - a half notch below. He played in a bigtime offensive era, in a great system, with a true HoFer on the other side of him. Really really good player, but not quite HoF imo.
BS. Lemme list some stats for you:1974 thru 1982 - 336 catches, 5462 yds, 51 TD's - Inducted into HOF1974 thru 1987 - 537 catches, 8723 yds, 63 TD's - Inducted into HOF1998 thru 2007 - 805 catches, 11864 yds, 71 TD's1994 thru 2007 - 942 catches, 14109 yds, 84 TD'sThe stats for the 2 guys already inducted are Lynn Swann and John Stallworth. The second set of stats are obviously for Holt and Bruce. At this point, Holt has played 1 more more season than Swann, yet he has nearly 500 more receptions during that timeframe, and has twice the yardage. To say Holt will not make the HOF is insane. He is a lock, unless he commits murder.
When you play on teams that win 4 SB's in that short of a time frame and you're a strong contributor to those wins you increase your stock versus compiling stats.And Swann's TD/Catch ratio >>> Holts.
Swann is one of the most overrated players in the HOF. 336 catches in a 9 yr career averages out to 37 catches per season. His 5462 yds averages out to 607 yards per season. His 51 TD's average out to 5.7 per season. Slice it any way you want, but Swann's avg season was 37/607/6. The dude finished as a top-10 FF'er in 3 of his 9 seasons. His next closest finish was WR23. Holt, who, it has as already been stated has played in a stronger WR era, has finished as a top-10 FF'er in 6 of his 10 seasons. Any more questions?
Teams did not throw the ball nearly what they do now...may want to research Bill Walsh and the 49ers WCO(West COast Offense)...that will give you an appreciation of what Swann and Stallworth did. Let me guess...you were born in the early to mid 80's, yes/no?
 
IMO if his career ended today, he would not make it. He's very close, but not quite there.

But I don't think he's done. I think he could still get better this season, but worst case he'll be back next year and probably for a couple more after that. I think he will play long enough to make the HOF.

He is currently 14th in career receptions, but he's within 52 catches of Rod Smith, Fryar, Jimmy Smith and McCardell. So he'll pass all of them by early next season and move into the top 10.

He is currently 15th in career receiving yards, but he's within 1045 yards of Jimmy Smith, Monk, Fryar, Largent, and Reed, so he should pass all of them and move into the top 10 by the end of next season.

He is currently tied for 26th in career receiving TDs, but if he scores 7 more TDs, he'll be in the top 20... 13 more and he'll be tied for 12th all time. This category will be harder for him to move up in than the others, but if he plays a couple more seasons after this one he has a chance to reach the top 10.

Holt is the only WR to ever post 6 consecutive seasons with 1300 receiving yards. I think he is also the only WR to ever post 6 consecutive seasons with 90 catches. Harrison and Holt are the only 2 WRs with multiple seasons of 1600+ receiving yards. Those are pretty impressive accomplishments to go along with his Pro Bowls, All Pro selection, and his Super Bowl ring. Once he reaches the top 10 in receptions and receiving yards, I think he'll have enough to make the HOF.

 
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GB the idiocy that is the HoF discusssions :thumbup: I esp love the "voted to X pro bowls" and stats ABC "proving" his worthiness.

 
To anyone that thinks Holt will not get in, look at these numbers folks, they are jaw dropping.

2000 82 1635 19.9 6

2001 81 1363 16.8 7

2002 91 1302 14.3 4

2003 117 1696 14.5 12

2004 94 1372 14.6 10

2005 102 1331 13.0 9

2006 93 1188 12.8 10

2007 93 1189 12.8 7

6 seasons of 90+ catches including 100+ in 2 seasons...find me another WR in the 2000 decade/era that has done that...can't be very many, maybe Harrison but I would have to double check. 1,300+ yds in 5 staright seasons, 7 straight Pro Bowls, 2 1,600+ yd seasons...very very very rarely you can pull that on somebody's resume. 65 TD over 8 seasons is nothing to be ashamed of.

We are talking about 750+ catches here over 8 seasons as well...average of 93 catches a season? Incredible, again not many resumes will stack up.

He did win a Super Bowl and played in another.

LOCK!!!

 
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A really good receiver. One of the better ones of his time. But not one of the true best of his time, imo - a half notch below. He played in a bigtime offensive era, in a great system, with a true HoFer on the other side of him. Really really good player, but not quite HoF imo.
BS. Lemme list some stats for you:1974 thru 1982 - 336 catches, 5462 yds, 51 TD's - Inducted into HOF1974 thru 1987 - 537 catches, 8723 yds, 63 TD's - Inducted into HOF1998 thru 2007 - 805 catches, 11864 yds, 71 TD's1994 thru 2007 - 942 catches, 14109 yds, 84 TD'sThe stats for the 2 guys already inducted are Lynn Swann and John Stallworth. The second set of stats are obviously for Holt and Bruce. At this point, Holt has played 1 more more season than Swann, yet he has nearly 500 more receptions during that timeframe, and has twice the yardage. To say Holt will not make the HOF is insane. He is a lock, unless he commits murder.
Awful and irrelevant post. Can't compare statistics across eras, and Holt doesn't have the Super Bowl rings or performances those guys had.
 
Given the problems with his knee, and the fact that he cannot get separation anymore from DBs, Torry Holt's career could very well be on the downside. If not, I will give him mad props when he returns to form, but fate is probably not on his side.
Really?
 
I mean, is he going in ahead of Tim Brown? Or Rod Smith? Who were better players? Holt, racking up yardage in garbage time in what were lackluster teams in his prime seasons? Sure Rod had fewer yards, but I'd say his were bigger, as he played on successful teams that ran the ball when they were ahead. Torry Holt is not better than these guys in my opinion and they'll have a hard time getting in.Hell, Cris Carter isn't in yet. Holt's gonna have a LOT of company fighting to go in with him.
Carter and Brown will definitely make it, and long before Holt is even eligible. Not sure why you brought them up, as their careers barely overlapped with Holt's.

Rod Smith will not make the HOF, nor should he. But Holt has a much stronger case than Rod Smith, so again I don't think the comparison is relevant.

Finally, I think your statement that Holt racked up his yards in garbage time is off base.

 
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Given the problems with his knee, and the fact that he cannot get separation anymore from DBs, Torry Holt's career could very well be on the downside. If not, I will give him mad props when he returns to form, but fate is probably not on his side.
Really?
I thought the same thing...I give no credibility to Holt being done...guess Bulger can't read defenses anymore either. The OL there is a sham and until they fix that, very hard to gauge where we are at with Holt, sorry.
 
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Torry Holt played on a pass first/pass happy Martz offense throughout his peak years, on a team that was trailing in the second half a majority of its games after that early 90's run.
That is simply wrong to imply that Holt padded his stats because he played on losing teams that were always losing. Holt's two greatest statistical seasons from a receiving yards standpoint were '00 and '03, seasons in which the Rams went 10-6 and 12-4. In fact, in the six full seasons that Martz was there (one as OC and five full years as head coach), the Rams had one losing season. One. 2002. And that was Holt's second least best season of those six seasons (the least best being his rookie year). In other words, Holt piled up his impressive numbers playing for winning teams almost every year, not by putting up garbage yardage on losing teams.
Torry Holt was a very good NFL wide reciever, deserving of HOF consideration, but he'll fall just short. And for most of his career, he was a dissappointing fantasy football player, if you consider that if you're drafting a guy to be lets say the 4th best WR and he gives you the 8th best WR season, that is a letdown.
That doesn't mean a damn thing. Yeah, I am sure voters will be sitting there going, "golly jee, I drafted Holt that one year to be 4th best WR, and he was only the 8th best that year, so I am going to vote against him." :lmao: In fact, I cannot believe anyone would use that kind of argument in this discussion.
 
To anyone that thinks Holt will not get in, look at these numbers folks, they are jaw dropping.

2000 82 1635 19.9 6

2001 81 1363 16.8 7

2002 91 1302 14.3 4

2003 117 1696 14.5 12

2004 94 1372 14.6 10

2005 102 1331 13.0 9

2006 93 1188 12.8 10

2007 93 1189 12.8 7

6 seasons of 90+ catches including 100+ in 2 seasons...find me another WR in the 2000 decade/era that has done that...can't be very many, maybe Harrison but I would have to double check. 1,300+ yds in 5 staright seasons, 7 straight Pro Bowls, 2 1,600+ yd seasons...very very very rarely you can pull that on somebody's resume. 65 TD over 8 seasons is nothing to be ashamed of.

We are talking about 750+ catches here over 8 seasons as well...average of 93 catches a season? Incredible, again not many resumes will stack up.

He did win a Super Bowl and played in another.

LOCK!!!
98 1,086 6Another WR on a pass happy Martz O. Numbers alone don't make HOF locks.

 
Torry Holt played on a pass first/pass happy Martz offense throughout his peak years, on a team that was trailing in the second half a majority of its games after that early 90's run.
That is simply wrong to imply that Holt padded his stats because he played on losing teams that were always losing. Holt's two greatest statistical seasons from a receiving yards standpoint were '00 and '03, seasons in which the Rams went 10-6 and 12-4. In fact, in the six full seasons that Martz was there (one as OC and five full years as head coach), the Rams had one losing season. One. 2002. And that was Holt's second least best season of those six seasons (the least best being his rookie year). In other words, Holt piled up his impressive numbers playing for winning teams almost every year, not by putting up garbage yardage on losing teams.
Torry Holt was a very good NFL wide reciever, deserving of HOF consideration, but he'll fall just short. And for most of his career, he was a dissappointing fantasy football player, if you consider that if you're drafting a guy to be lets say the 4th best WR and he gives you the 8th best WR season, that is a letdown.
That doesn't mean a damn thing. Yeah, I am sure voters will be sitting there going, "golly jee, I drafted Holt that one year to be 4th best WR, and he was only the 8th best that year, so I am going to vote against him." :lmao: In fact, I cannot believe anyone would use that kind of argument in this discussion.
The fantasy argument was in reference to a point in that exchange with whoever I was talking about. But the point stands, we're talking about this guy like he's a clear cut lock, but if he wasn't the best FF reciever over a period, or even a season, to call him a lock for anything gets quite dicey.But I will concede the point partially on Martz, he had more success than I recalled in St. Louis. It was his departure and Detroit run of gunslinging that colored my opinion, but lets not forget why he got fired, its because his pass happy teams would frequently just abandon the run. How many 9 carry games did Marshall Faulk have. When you have a coach committed to playing Arena football,your stastics will reflect that, but he had a lot more success than a I recalled.
 
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I mean, is he going in ahead of Tim Brown? Or Rod Smith? Who were better players? Holt, racking up yardage in garbage time in what were lackluster teams in his prime seasons? Sure Rod had fewer yards, but I'd say his were bigger, as he played on successful teams that ran the ball when they were ahead. Torry Holt is not better than these guys in my opinion and they'll have a hard time getting in.Hell, Cris Carter isn't in yet. Holt's gonna have a LOT of company fighting to go in with him.
Carter and Brown will definitely make it, and long before Holt is even eligible. Not sure why you brought them up, as their careers barely overlapped with Holt's.Rod Smith will not make the HOF, nor should he. But Holt has a much stronger case than Rod Smith, so again I don't think the comparison is relevant.Finally, I think your statement that Holt racked up his yards in garbage time is :confused:
I'm viewing from the voting perspective, and while their playing eras weren't mirror matchups those voting lived through the era of both so its not like I'm comparing Don Maynard to Donnie Avery here.
 
To anyone that thinks Holt will not get in, look at these numbers folks, they are jaw dropping.

2000 82 1635 19.9 6

2001 81 1363 16.8 7

2002 91 1302 14.3 4

2003 117 1696 14.5 12

2004 94 1372 14.6 10

2005 102 1331 13.0 9

2006 93 1188 12.8 10

2007 93 1189 12.8 7

6 seasons of 90+ catches including 100+ in 2 seasons...find me another WR in the 2000 decade/era that has done that...can't be very many, maybe Harrison but I would have to double check. 1,300+ yds in 5 staright seasons, 7 straight Pro Bowls, 2 1,600+ yd seasons...very very very rarely you can pull that on somebody's resume. 65 TD over 8 seasons is nothing to be ashamed of.

We are talking about 750+ catches here over 8 seasons as well...average of 93 catches a season? Incredible, again not many resumes will stack up.

He did win a Super Bowl and played in another.

LOCK!!!
98 1,086 6Another WR on a pass happy Martz O. Numbers alone don't make HOF locks.
What does? Playing in a couple Super Bowls? Check...Winning a Super Bowl? Check...Is Randy Moss in the HoF? How come? No Super bowl ring yet...what's the difference? Touchdowns are just another stat, yes/no?

 
I mean, is he going in ahead of Tim Brown? Or Rod Smith? Who were better players? Holt, racking up yardage in garbage time in what were lackluster teams in his prime seasons? Sure Rod had fewer yards, but I'd say his were bigger, as he played on successful teams that ran the ball when they were ahead. Torry Holt is not better than these guys in my opinion and they'll have a hard time getting in.Hell, Cris Carter isn't in yet. Holt's gonna have a LOT of company fighting to go in with him.
Carter and Brown will definitely make it, and long before Holt is even eligible. Not sure why you brought them up, as their careers barely overlapped with Holt's.Rod Smith will not make the HOF, nor should he. But Holt has a much stronger case than Rod Smith, so again I don't think the comparison is relevant.Finally, I think your statement that Holt racked up his yards in garbage time is :confused:
I'm viewing from the voting perspective, and while their playing eras weren't mirror matchups those voting lived through the era of both so its not like I'm comparing Don Maynard to Donnie Avery here.
My point is, I don't see why you think it is a choice between Holt and Brown/Carter. Carter will probably make it next year. Brown will probably make it in 2010 or 2011 (he first becomes eligible in 2010). Holt will probably still be an active player when Carter and Brown are inducted into the HOF. And he'll retire a couple years later, then 5 years must pass before he becomes eligible. So voters will first consider Holt several years after Brown and Carter get in. I don't see any relevance in comparing them.
 
But the point stands, we're talking about this guy like he's a clear cut lock, but if he wasn't the best FF reciever over a period, or even a season, to call him a lock for anything gets quite dicey.But I will concede the point partially on Martz, he had more success than I recalled in St. Louis. It was his departure and Detroit run of gunslinging that colored my opinion, but lets not forget why he got fired, its because his pass happy teams would frequently just abandon the run. How many 9 carry games did Marshall Faulk have. When you have a coach committed to playing Arena football,your stastics will reflect that, but he had a lot more success than a I recalled.
Once again, fantasy football does not matter when it comes to making the Hall of Fame. We are talking about REAL football here. As for playing in a pass-happy offense, is Randy Moss not HoF-worthy because all of his best seasons were put up in Minnesota under Dennis Green (which was a pass-happy offense) and with a New England team that "ran the score up" (I put that in quotes because I do not believe in running up the score in the pros, but it was the best way to put it) almost every week? Put Moss in a conservative offense and what would his numbers be? That seems to be what you are saying about Holt. Bottom line: Players are judged on what they did, not what they could have or might have done.
 
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Holt is not what I would call a HOF type WR. His numbers are so inflated right now for playing in that offense. Right now I think there might 3 HOF WR out there. Moss has been a force in the game for a while, but since leaving MN he had last year that was worth a crap. TO is really showing signs that he is slowing down and needs to comeback with some more good stats to be HOF. TO's attitude will also hurt him come voting time. Marvin Harrison numbers will look HOF but the arguement can be made has had a ton of talent aound him and only won one SuperBowl during his career.

At this point I dont see any other WR that will make the hall, but I could be over looking some one. Lot of young guys that could make but they have lot of hill to climb.

 
No. As others have mentioned, too much competition at the WR position.

Could he get in? He might. Is he a "lock," as some have suggested? Of course not. Very few players are "locks" to get into the Hall of Fame. Names like Favre, Ray Lewis, Curtis Martin, and Marshall Faulk come to mind. Holt has had a nice career, but he's not quite at the level of these other players I've mentioned.

 
> MOP:

Pats fan here... and no, I don't think Randy Moss is necessarily a Hall of Famer at this point. A few more seasons (god willing) with Brady, and barring any injuries, he'll almost definitely get in, but at this point, I think he's borderline. He's clearly been the best receiver in the game at times, but there have also been some issues with consistency, and quitting on the Oakland teams won't help his case.

 
But the point stands, we're talking about this guy like he's a clear cut lock, but if he wasn't the best FF reciever over a period, or even a season, to call him a lock for anything gets quite dicey.But I will concede the point partially on Martz, he had more success than I recalled in St. Louis. It was his departure and Detroit run of gunslinging that colored my opinion, but lets not forget why he got fired, its because his pass happy teams would frequently just abandon the run. How many 9 carry games did Marshall Faulk have. When you have a coach committed to playing Arena football,your stastics will reflect that, but he had a lot more success than a I recalled.
Once again, fantasy football does not matter when it comes to making the Hall of Fame. We are talking about REAL football here. As for playing in a pass-happy offense, is Randy Moss not HoF-worthy because all of his best seasons were put up in Minnesota under Dennis Green (which was a pass-happy offense) and with a New England team that "ran the score up" (I put that in quotes because I do not believe in running up the score in the pros, but it was the best way to put it) almost every week? Put Moss in a conservative offense and what would his numbers be? That seems to be what you are saying about Holt. Bottom line: Players are judged on what they did, not what they could have or might have done.
Please, Holt is a fine player, but Moss is a game changer and if he had been in St. Louis in those days, I'd bet you'd have seen a 25+ TD season. Moss belongs in a debate with Jerry Rice(where is not yet there and probably blew his chance with the Oakland run) but he's a clear head above Holt.Is Holt better than Moss, Harrison or T.O.? Definately not in my book and he's now got quasi contemporaries like Boldin who if they stay healthy, have the age to figure prominently in statistical comparison to him. He's in with the first guys I mentioned I think, players like Hines Ward, who will get support but are down the list of guys to go in. Holt rode the front end of a recieving boom that will be evaluated in context when his HOF time comes.And on the reciever backlog, you have Carmichael, Fryar and Jimmy Sniff mentioned above. And throw in a guy like Andre Reed who was much more the Hall of Famer to me than Holt. Ike Bruce will get consideration.There seems to be a bias or a block against WR's in HOF voting, and that is what I primarily consider when thinking about Holt for the Hall. Factoring in this with the fact with:1. He's 4th, at best, amongst contemporaries2. Statistical compiliation isn't rewarded(see Monk)3. There are better players struggling for inclusionHe's got a long road ahead. Of course, his book isn't written yet and if he's healthy, he can certainly put together a few seasons to make his case more clearcut. But in the context of this debate as framed, if he's done, is he in now? The answer is no.
 
Please, Holt is a fine player, but Moss is a game changer and if he had been in St. Louis in those days, I'd bet you'd have seen a 25+ TD season. Moss belongs in a debate with Jerry Rice(where is not yet there and probably blew his chance with the Oakland run) but he's a clear head above Holt.Is Holt better than Moss, Harrison or T.O.? Definately not in my book and he's now got quasi contemporaries like Boldin who if they stay healthy, have the age to figure prominently in statistical comparison to him. He's in with the first guys I mentioned I think, players like Hines Ward, who will get support but are down the list of guys to go in. Holt rode the front end of a recieving boom that will be evaluated in context when his HOF time comes.And on the reciever backlog, you have Carmichael, Fryar and Jimmy Sniff mentioned above. And throw in a guy like Andre Reed who was much more the Hall of Famer to me than Holt. Ike Bruce will get consideration.There seems to be a bias or a block against WR's in HOF voting, and that is what I primarily consider when thinking about Holt for the Hall. Factoring in this with the fact with:1. He's 4th, at best, amongst contemporaries2. Statistical compiliation isn't rewarded(see Monk)3. There are better players struggling for inclusionHe's got a long road ahead. Of course, his book isn't written yet and if he's healthy, he can certainly put together a few seasons to make his case more clearcut. But in the context of this debate as framed, if he's done, is he in now? The answer is no.
Moss absolutely does not belong in a conversation with Jerry Rice. Rice's numbers are absurd, not to mention that he led the league in receiving yards six (!!!!) times, while also leading the league in touchdown receptions six times. Moss has NEVER led the NFL in receiving yards. Plus, Rice has the rep as being the hardest-working WR ever, while Moss is a notoriously lazy player who only plays when he wants to. No comparison at all when looking at their careers. Had Moss had Rice's worth ethic and drive to be the best, he probably would have been as good, but that is not the case. I agree that it will be difficult for Holt to get in, especially right away, but when comparing him to his peers, he has a strong case. The only WR of the last ten years I would say is clearly ahead of him is Marvin Harrison. Owens and Moss both have too many off-the-field issues that will not help their causes. It is too early to talk about a guy like Boldin. He looks like a special WR, but it is simply too early to speculate on him.As for statistical compilation, that might be true, but it is not like Holt is a guy who was merely a compiler. Like has been stated, he is the ONLY WR to ever post six consecutive seasons of 1,300 yards or more. Regardless of what kind of offense he played in, that is damn impressive. And it is not like he is the only WR to ever play in a pass-happy offense, so why penalize him for playing in Martz's pass-happy offense, when plenty of other WRs have had the opportunity to play in similar-type offenses, yet every single one of them failed to do what Holt did. To exemplify how impressive Holt's six consecutive seasons of 1,300 yards of more is, consider that Jerry Rice, far and away the best WR ever, never had more than three seasons in a row of 1,300 yards in a row, and he played in the WCO, which is an offense where WRs are set up to flourish in. No, I am not saying Holt is as good as Rice, or even really comparing them; I am just making that one comparison to demonstrate how consistently great Holt was during his peak years. His lack of TDs in the early years is a slight detriment to him, but consider that in those years, Marshall Faulk was an absolute beast and Isaac Bruce was more of the red zone weapon. Holt rarely had balls thrown to him inside the 10. But, from '03-'06, the years where Faulk and Bruce both started to tail off a bit, Holt scored 41 TDs (in those four seasons), so he proved that he could be a valuable red zone weapon (more red zone touches resulted in the higher TD totals), so his lack of TDs early was more about lack of opportunity than anything else.
 
Please, Holt is a fine player, but Moss is a game changer and if he had been in St. Louis in those days, I'd bet you'd have seen a 25+ TD season. Moss belongs in a debate with Jerry Rice(where is not yet there and probably blew his chance with the Oakland run) but he's a clear head above Holt.Is Holt better than Moss, Harrison or T.O.? Definately not in my book and he's now got quasi contemporaries like Boldin who if they stay healthy, have the age to figure prominently in statistical comparison to him. He's in with the first guys I mentioned I think, players like Hines Ward, who will get support but are down the list of guys to go in. Holt rode the front end of a recieving boom that will be evaluated in context when his HOF time comes.And on the reciever backlog, you have Carmichael, Fryar and Jimmy Sniff mentioned above. And throw in a guy like Andre Reed who was much more the Hall of Famer to me than Holt. Ike Bruce will get consideration.There seems to be a bias or a block against WR's in HOF voting, and that is what I primarily consider when thinking about Holt for the Hall. Factoring in this with the fact with:1. He's 4th, at best, amongst contemporaries2. Statistical compiliation isn't rewarded(see Monk)3. There are better players struggling for inclusionHe's got a long road ahead. Of course, his book isn't written yet and if he's healthy, he can certainly put together a few seasons to make his case more clearcut. But in the context of this debate as framed, if he's done, is he in now? The answer is no.
Moss absolutely does not belong in a conversation with Jerry Rice. Rice's numbers are absurd, not to mention that he led the league in receiving yards six (!!!!) times, while also leading the league in touchdown receptions six times. Moss has NEVER led the NFL in receiving yards. Plus, Rice has the rep as being the hardest-working WR ever, while Moss is a notoriously lazy player who only plays when he wants to. No comparison at all when looking at their careers. Had Moss had Rice's worth ethic and drive to be the best, he probably would have been as good, but that is not the case. I agree that it will be difficult for Holt to get in, especially right away, but when comparing him to his peers, he has a strong case. The only WR of the last ten years I would say is clearly ahead of him is Marvin Harrison. Owens and Moss both have too many off-the-field issues that will not help their causes. It is too early to talk about a guy like Boldin. He looks like a special WR, but it is simply too early to speculate on him.As for statistical compilation, that might be true, but it is not like Holt is a guy who was merely a compiler. Like has been stated, he is the ONLY WR to ever post six consecutive seasons of 1,300 yards or more. Regardless of what kind of offense he played in, that is damn impressive. And it is not like he is the only WR to ever play in a pass-happy offense, so why penalize him for playing in Martz's pass-happy offense, when plenty of other WRs have had the opportunity to play in similar-type offenses, yet every single one of them failed to do what Holt did. To exemplify how impressive Holt's six consecutive seasons of 1,300 yards of more is, consider that Jerry Rice, far and away the best WR ever, never had more than three seasons in a row of 1,300 yards in a row, and he played in the WCO, which is an offense where WRs are set up to flourish in. No, I am not saying Holt is as good as Rice, or even really comparing them; I am just making that one comparison to demonstrate how consistently great Holt was during his peak years. His lack of TDs in the early years is a slight detriment to him, but consider that in those years, Marshall Faulk was an absolute beast and Isaac Bruce was more of the red zone weapon. Holt rarely had balls thrown to him inside the 10. But, from '03-'06, the years where Faulk and Bruce both started to tail off a bit, Holt scored 41 TDs (in those four seasons), so he proved that he could be a valuable red zone weapon (more red zone touches resulted in the higher TD totals), so his lack of TDs early was more about lack of opportunity than anything else.
We shall agree to disagree, and I'll definately say he's 2 notches below Rice, but my point is, he's closer to Rice than Holt is to him in my opinion. His attitude and lethargy, especially in Oaktown as I mentioned, ended that speculation. But Moss is 31 and if Brady had stayed healthy, I think he might have made run at Rice's TD record if he put together 5 or 6 more strong seasons. What if's on that front though.But a point to ponder in what you said is what the off the field or reputation stuff will mean. Michael Irvin, with not a slam dunk resume to me, but again those all important rings, got in very soon after retirement. Some times the player overrides the rep, ala LT. Moss will walk in the Hall, maybe T.O. has to wait and it would probably hurt a marginal canidacy of a guy like Chad Johnson(who I"m not suggesting for the Hall but his digits are probably better than you would think they were to me at least). Does it hurt Cris Carter, who really turned himself around to be a standup guy? How much does and should it hurt? And hell, Marvin Harrison, a first ballot guy, may have off field questions arise before he gets considered. Holt, to his credit, has been an exempilary citizen, but the fact that Irvin got in before Monk really makes you think.
 
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Torry Holt has played nine seasons in the NFL. No player in NFL history has more receiving yards through nine seasons than Torry Holt.

 
Good discussion from all. He's definitely getting in- he's part of the one of the all time great NFL team names/monikers- "The Greatest Show on Turf". I know this is very minor and ultimatey he will be judged on his body of work, but as time goes on, those that remember the late 90's/early 2000's will remember that with a fondness for the offensive assault that it was. Like it or not, those things "stick" and become part of NFL Lore.

Of all the team names that I can think of (not that these are comparable or exact) there is a certain fond memory that we have in thinking back to that era and in general, those players get the benefit of the doubt (e.g.) Air Coryell, Steel Curtain, Purple People Eaters, Big Three, etc......

Holt has been a model of consistency in posting HUGE #'s year in and year out. This year is not indicative of his career and he'll put together two or three more years of better than average performance to pad the career stat line. LOCK.. :lmao:

 
And on the reciever backlog, you have Carmichael, Fryar and Jimmy Sniff mentioned above. And throw in a guy like Andre Reed who was much more the Hall of Famer to me than Holt. Ike Bruce will get consideration.
IMO Holt is clearly more HOF worthy than Carmichael, Fryar, and Jimmy Smith.I think Reed and Bruce are deserving and will probably make it.

None of that really bears on Holt's chance of making it.

 
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