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How much Voter Fraud is Happening

VOTER FRAUD vs. VOTE DISENFRANCHISEMENT  

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There have been a lot of claims regarding voter fraud in the last month. From ACORN to same day registration abuse, to college students and campaign workers from out-of-state voting when they aren't allowed, to dead people being recorded as having voted.

There have also been reports of legitimate and registered voters not being able to vote due to their names being purged from voter rolls, to computer error, to not being registered at an address where they can receive mail (see the college student thread on the front page), to voter suppression efforts by one or both parties.

How much of this do you think is going on?

And, which is worse?

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I'll wager fewer than 100 votes nationally with confidence, although I suspect it will be much fewer than that.

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I'll wager fewer than 100 votes nationally with confidence, although I suspect it will be much fewer than that.

:rolleyes:There will be that many improper ballots in one precinct in Cook County before noon

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I'll wager fewer than 100 votes nationally with confidence, although I suspect it will be much fewer than that.

:rolleyes:There will be that many improper ballots in one precinct in Cook County before noon
Then start a thread about improper ballots. This one is about voter fraud.

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Actual voter fraud is pretty much a myth now. Voter registration fraud is real but groups on both sides do it because they get paid per registration so they make em up. But those registrations dont translate into fraudulent votes. That is why the ACORN issue is pretty meaningless.

Voter suppression on the other hand is truly troubling and almost only done by Republicans. It should not be tolerated.

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CNN reporting that their hotline has received a LOT of calls, but no major issues to report. Mostly just stuff like machines breaking down, etc. They said the biggest issue reported thus far was an incorrect registration book in Kansas City, which has now been corrected.

MSN says there are issues with the optical scan machines in FL.

So, basically, like all the other infrastructure in this country, the voting machines are breaking down and in serious need of repair or replacement

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I think if you vote for either of the extremes on these polls, you should man up and say why in a post.

I think intentionally casting a fraudulent vote is much too risky and the punishment too severe to justify the potential benefit.

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All over the country there are efforts being made to con and fool voters into not voting. Calls and flyers and emails are telling voters to vote on the wrong day, giving out incorrect polling addresses, lying to voters by telling them they will be arrested for parking tickets or bounced checks if they try to vote.

It is disgusting.

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All over the country there are efforts being made to con and fool voters into not voting. Calls and flyers and emails are telling voters to vote on the wrong day, giving out incorrect polling addresses, lying to voters by telling them they will be arrested for parking tickets or bounced checks if they try to vote.

It is disgusting.

Someone hacked into the George Mason University email system and sent out a mass email informing student that election day had been moved to Nov. 5.

link

I'll note that this is attempted voter suppression, not voter fraud.

Edited by pantagrapher

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With no actual information on which to base my opinoin, I would guess that this election will have less voter fraud than any other in the history of US presidential elections.

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With no actual information on which to base my opinoin, I would guess that this election will have less voter fraud than any other in the history of US presidential elections.

:goodposting:

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:lmao: Saw somewhere that 2,000 voters on the rolls (not just registrations, but approved to vote) in Ohio were also on the rolls in Florida. I think there is an effort to commit fraud that can affect as much as 1% of the popular vote. I think in a battleground state, where a dozen or so electoral votes are decided by 10,000 votes or less, the effort is more concentrated.

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I think there is an effort to commit fraud that can affect as much as 1% of the popular vote. I think in a battleground state, where a dozen or so electoral votes are decided by 10,000 votes or less, the effort is more concentrated.

You think 1.3 million votes will be fraudulently cast? That would be the most elaborate and largest conspiracy of all time.

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I think there is an effort to commit fraud that can affect as much as 1% of the popular vote. I think in a battleground state, where a dozen or so electoral votes are decided by 10,000 votes or less, the effort is more concentrated.

You think 1.3 million votes will be fraudulently cast? That would be the most elaborate and largest conspiracy of all time.
No kidding. I put the poll options into the millions just to see how many people are into the "sky is falling" mentality and will click on the largest option no matter what. I guess I could have made an option "more than 100,000,000" and people would have still clicked on it.

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I think there is an effort to commit fraud that can affect as much as 1% of the popular vote. I think in a battleground state, where a dozen or so electoral votes are decided by 10,000 votes or less, the effort is more concentrated.

You think 1.3 million votes will be fraudulently cast? That would be the most elaborate and largest conspiracy of all time.
"As much as". Surely lower, but, it wouldn't surprise me to see half-a-million or so, and if the election had low turnout (>100mil) it could reach 1%.

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Since a national ID card is a little too controversial, why not require everyone to get a passport at age 18. That would be the best, most reliable voter registration card evah. Scan the passport when you vote (like when you enter the country) a quick database look up would indicate if you have voted yet (and tell where & when if you have). This would work with ANY voting system since it just acts as a gatekeeper.

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it wouldn't surprise me to see half-a-million or so

Jesus.Put down the tin foil hat.
:X"it wouldn't surprise me"People need a dictionary. I'm not saying it happens all the time. I'm just saying if it was proven that there were 500,000 fraudulent votes, I wouldn't be shocked. It's like saying 3 years ago "It wouldn't surprise me to discover there were as many as 5 crooked NBA refs". You start adding 10,000 votes to a precinct here and there and things start to add up. Do I think there will be 1.3 mil fraudulent votes this year? No. Do I think it's possible that, in the next 4 or 5 elections, 3 or 4 nutjob secretaries of state contribute to swing a half-million-votes? Sure, could happen, if there's enough spite and anger between the parties. And maybe I have a looser definition of voter fraud. I think throwing out military ballots on an illegal technicality might count. I wonder why poll observers from the "minority party" are barred from observing the count, and think that could contribute to several thousand fraudulent votes. Edited by videoguy505

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I think if you vote for either of the extremes on these polls, you should man up and say why in a post.

I think intentionally casting a fraudulent vote is much too risky and the punishment too severe to justify the potential benefit.
How so? What is the penalty? How likely are you to be caught?

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All over the country there are efforts being made to con and fool voters into not voting. Calls and flyers and emails are telling voters to vote on the wrong day, giving out incorrect polling addresses, lying to voters by telling them they will be arrested for parking tickets or bounced checks if they try to vote.

It is disgusting.

Someone hacked into the George Mason University email system and sent out a mass email informing student that election day had been moved to Nov. 5.

link

I'll note that this is attempted voter suppression, not voter fraud.

Or, some kid playing a dumb prank for kicks & giggles.

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Since a national ID card is a little too controversial, why not require everyone to get a passport at age 18. That would be the best, most reliable voter registration card evah. Scan the passport when you vote (like when you enter the country) a quick database look up would indicate if you have voted yet (and tell where & when if you have). This would work with ANY voting system since it just acts as a gatekeeper.

Too good of an idea to be considered!!!!!!!!! This would adversely affect the poorer members of our society!!!!!

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All over the country there are efforts being made to con and fool voters into not voting. Calls and flyers and emails are telling voters to vote on the wrong day, giving out incorrect polling addresses, lying to voters by telling them they will be arrested for parking tickets or bounced checks if they try to vote.

It is disgusting.

Someone hacked into the George Mason University email system and sent out a mass email informing student that election day had been moved to Nov. 5.

link

I'll note that this is attempted voter suppression, not voter fraud.

Wow. GMU students are dumb.

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All over the country there are efforts being made to con and fool voters into not voting. Calls and flyers and emails are telling voters to vote on the wrong day, giving out incorrect polling addresses, lying to voters by telling them they will be arrested for parking tickets or bounced checks if they try to vote.

It is disgusting.

Someone hacked into the George Mason University email system and sent out a mass email informing student that election day had been moved to Nov. 5.

link

I'll note that this is attempted voter suppression, not voter fraud.

Wow. GMU students are dumb.
:thumbup::shrug:

:excited:

Maybe it was done by a civics professor in order to grade the student body.

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All over the country there are efforts being made to con and fool voters into not voting. Calls and flyers and emails are telling voters to vote on the wrong day, giving out incorrect polling addresses, lying to voters by telling them they will be arrested for parking tickets or bounced checks if they try to vote.

It is disgusting.

Someone hacked into the George Mason University email system and sent out a mass email informing student that election day had been moved to Nov. 5.

link

I'll note that this is attempted voter suppression, not voter fraud.

Wow. GMU students are dumb.
If you assume they fell for it.

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I think I'm most surprised at the last question's results.

If I cast a vote and someone else casts an illegitimate vote, then my voting power is decreased slightly.

If my vote is unjustly deemed illegitimate and discarded, then my voting power is removed entirely.

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I think if you vote for either of the extremes on these polls, you should man up and say why in a post.

I think intentionally casting a fraudulent vote is much too risky and the punishment too severe to justify the potential benefit.
How so? What is the penalty? How likely are you to be caught?
Here's what I found:

The penalty for fraudulent voting or fraudulent registration involving a federal election is five years in prison. You can find the relevant law in 42 USC 1972. Noncitizens attempting to register or vote is punishable by five years in prison. See 18 USC 1015. Interstate travel or the use of the mails, telephones or internet to facilitate vote buying in a federal election is punishable by up to five years in prison. See 18 USC 1952. Using the mail to facilitate federal voter fraud may also entail violating 18 USC 1341, which can get you up to twenty years in prison. Individual states may impose additional penalties.

Edited by pantagrapher

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it wouldn't surprise me to see half-a-million or so

Jesus.Put down the tin foil hat.
:rolleyes:"it wouldn't surprise me"People need a dictionary. I'm not saying it happens all the time. I'm just saying if it was proven that there were 500,000 fraudulent votes, I wouldn't be shocked. It's like saying 3 years ago "It wouldn't surprise me to discover there were as many as 5 crooked NBA refs". You start adding 10,000 votes to a precinct here and there and things start to add up. Do I think there will be 1.3 mil fraudulent votes this year? No. Do I think it's possible that, in the next 4 or 5 elections, 3 or 4 nutjob secretaries of state contribute to swing a half-million-votes? Sure, could happen, if there's enough spite and anger between the parties. And maybe I have a looser definition of voter fraud. I think throwing out military ballots on an illegal technicality might count. I wonder why poll observers from the "minority party" are barred from observing the count, and think that could contribute to several thousand fraudulent votes.
:lmao:Seriously. You're killing me here.

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All over the country there are efforts being made to con and fool voters into not voting. Calls and flyers and emails are telling voters to vote on the wrong day, giving out incorrect polling addresses, lying to voters by telling them they will be arrested for parking tickets or bounced checks if they try to vote.

It is disgusting.

Someone hacked into the George Mason University email system and sent out a mass email informing student that election day had been moved to Nov. 5.

link

I'll note that this is attempted voter suppression, not voter fraud.

Or, some kid playing a dumb prank for kicks & giggles.
Good point. I forgot that pranks are protected by law.

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I think I'm most surprised at the last question's results.If I cast a vote and someone else casts an illegitimate vote, then my voting power is decreased slightly. If my vote is unjustly deemed illegitimate and discarded, then my voting power is removed entirely.

Why are you surprised? What has ever led you to believe that this is the board to get a rational, thoughtful take on any issue?So of course it's easier to find 10,000 discrete people who can somehow register for a phony identity and then go to the polls multiple times as opposed to having a state official "scrub" a database, or create a misleading flier or robocall. Of course. Suppression efforts are just comparably so much more difficult.

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I think if you vote for either of the extremes on these polls, you should man up and say why in a post.

I think intentionally casting a fraudulent vote is much too risky and the punishment too severe to justify the potential benefit.
How so? What is the penalty? How likely are you to be caught?
Here's what I found:

The penalty for fraudulent voting or fraudulent registration involving a federal election is five years in prison. You can find the relevant law in 42 USC 1972.

Noncitizens attempting to register or vote is punishable by five years in prison. See 18 USC 1015.

Interstate travel or the use of the mails, telephones or internet to facilitate vote buying in a federal election is punishable by up to five years in prison. See 18 USC 1952.

Using the mail to facilitate federal voter fraud may also entail violating 18 USC 1341, which can get you up to twenty years in prison.

Individual states may impose additional penalties.

Okay, but how likely are you to be caught?

Also, it has been argued by many on the left that capital punishment does not deter crime in any way(and therefore should not be used). So, if the death penalty does not deter crimes, why do you think time in a federal pen would?

Also, how likely is a person doing so likely to be caught?

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All over the country there are efforts being made to con and fool voters into not voting. Calls and flyers and emails are telling voters to vote on the wrong day, giving out incorrect polling addresses, lying to voters by telling them they will be arrested for parking tickets or bounced checks if they try to vote.

It is disgusting.

Someone hacked into the George Mason University email system and sent out a mass email informing student that election day had been moved to Nov. 5.

link

I'll note that this is attempted voter suppression, not voter fraud.

Or, some kid playing a dumb prank for kicks & giggles.
Good point. I forgot that pranks are protected by law.
Panty, I never posted that. I inferred by your post that you felt this email stunt was some Machiavellian plot hatched by professional pols. I was just offering an alternative which IMO is more likely. Whomever pulled this stunt deserves to be punished to the full extent of the law, whether it is a professional pol or a silly college kid pulling a prank.

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Panty, I never posted that. I inferred by your post that you felt this email stunt was some Machiavellian plot hatched by professional pols.

:thumbup: I hope you can appreciate the irony.

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I think I'm most surprised at the last question's results.If I cast a vote and someone else casts an illegitimate vote, then my voting power is decreased slightly. If my vote is unjustly deemed illegitimate and discarded, then my voting power is removed entirely.

Why are you surprised? What has ever led you to believe that this is the board to get a rational, thoughtful take on any issue?So of course it's easier to find 10,000 discrete people who can somehow register for a phony identity and then go to the polls multiple times as opposed to having a state official "scrub" a database, or create a misleading flier or robocall. Of course. Suppression efforts are just comparably so much more difficult.
I wasn't commenting on which was easier, but which was more unjust.

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I think I'm most surprised at the last question's results.If I cast a vote and someone else casts an illegitimate vote, then my voting power is decreased slightly. If my vote is unjustly deemed illegitimate and discarded, then my voting power is removed entirely.

Why are you surprised? What has ever led you to believe that this is the board to get a rational, thoughtful take on any issue?So of course it's easier to find 10,000 discrete people who can somehow register for a phony identity and then go to the polls multiple times as opposed to having a state official "scrub" a database, or create a misleading flier or robocall. Of course. Suppression efforts are just comparably so much more difficult.
I wasn't commenting on which was easier, but which was more unjust.
I know what you were commenting on.I just don't think it's so unbelievable when considered in context with the other irrational things people believe. For instance, if I learned that a sizable portion of my friends believed in Young Earth Creationism, I probably wouldn't be shocked when they believed that the Detroit Lions would win the Super Bowl.

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I'd say roughly 50% of the ballots cast today are fraudulent, give or take 12%.

No, voting based on "fraudulent"* information or beliefs doesn't count under the definition of voter fraud.* as defined by Statorama

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At this point it depends on what you mean by voter fraud. Without bending and/or breaking a ton of election laws on a yearly basis the democratic party in NJ wouldn't be nearly as powerful as it is. But no one goes into the cities to see what they do, nor do they care I guess.

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