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How much Voter Fraud is Happening (2 Viewers)

Which is worse / which is MORE UNJUST?

  • An illegitimate vote being counted

    Votes: 73 27.4%

  • A legitimate vote not being counted

    Votes: 193 72.6%
  • Total voters
    266
In an effort to inject the federal government into elections in North Carolina, the US Attorney in North Carolina sent subpoenas requesting "every record about voters and voting from 2010 to this year to 44 county Boards of Election, the statewide Board of Election and Ethics, and state Department of Motor Vehicles, which registers voters."

The subpoenas ordered the documents, which the state board estimated would exceed 20 million pages, be provided by Sept. 25 at a time when election administrators prepped for the midterm elections. Requested documents included voted ballots, voter registration and absentee ballot forms and poll books, some going back to early 2010.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/north-carolina-elections-board-to-fight-federal-subpoenas/2018/09/07/9e35a9ee-b2bf-11e8-8b53-50116768e499_story.html

The state election board there has the same number of members from each party. They voted to not comply and to try to quash the subpoenas altogether.

 
Joe Summer said:
I would like to see demographic breakdowns of the people appealing for voter reinstatement with Rick Scott. Not just by race, but by income, by crime, by party affiliation, by voting district, etc.
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I read that such requests are being processed at a rate of 400 a year.

That panel, which only meets four times a year, doesn’t have the bandwidth to review every case. And while former Florida governor Charlie Crist restored the voting rights of 155,315 people in four years, current Governor Rick Scott is only averaging around 400 a year.
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JohnnyU said:
What would be your solution?
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My solution to voter impersonation?  I don't think it really needs a solution, it's so rare.  But if we must do something I think the easiest thing to do is to take a digital photo of every voter and link it with the name that the person voted under.  That would make it very easy to prosecute anyone that tried to cast a vote as an imposter.

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
My solution to voter impersonation?  I don't think it really needs a solution, it's so rare.  But if we must do something I think the easiest thing to do is to take a digital photo of every voter and link it with the name that the person voted under.  That would make it very easy to prosecute anyone that tried to cast a vote as an imposter.
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rare or not we need to close as many loopholes as we can.

 
Joe Summer said:
This wasn't a loophole, it was a criminal act of forgery.

There is no way to "close a loop" that would prevent every single person from ever breaking the law.
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True, but we need ways to better control the voting process.  We need to know that who is voting is who they say they are.  I liked the answer given above "he easiest thing to do is to take a digital photo of every voter and link it with the name that the person voted under".  

 
JohnnyU said:
True, but we need ways to better control the voting process.  We need to know that who is voting is who they say they are.  I liked the answer given above "he easiest thing to do is to take a digital photo of every voter and link it with the name that the person voted under".  
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But there is little evidence right now that supports there are even minor issues happening, no?

 
JohnnyU said:
True, but we need ways to better control the voting process.  We need to know that who is voting is who they say they are.  I liked the answer given above "he easiest thing to do is to take a digital photo of every voter and link it with the name that the person voted under".  
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the mental gymnastics that must go on in your head.  surprised NBC hasn’t bid on it.  

 
JohnnyU said:
True, but we need ways to better control the voting process.  We need to know that who is voting is who they say they are.  I liked the answer given above "he easiest thing to do is to take a digital photo of every voter and link it with the name that the person voted under".  
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We certainly do NOT need republicans handling any part of the process.  Their history is far worse than any voter fraud.

 
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Republicans would have a little more credibility on this issue if, instead of making it more difficult for certain people to register and vote, they implemented measures that would help people to register. How about automatically registering every kid at his school when he or she turns 16? We know who they are and where they live at that point in time.

 
The Def Con Voting Village, which for two years in a row has let conference attendees try their hand at breaching voting machines, has released the report on this year's event. More than 30 voting machines and other pieces of election equipment were available this year and many of them are still used throughout the US. Troublingly, attendees uncovered multiple vulnerabilities, the number and severity of which the report described as "staggering." "What these vulnerabilities in this report and warnings from national security leaders tell us is that this is a severe national security threat," said Voting Village co-organizer Jake Braun.

Among the devices analyzed was the M650 from Election Systems & Software, a machine currently in use in 23 states. The report notes that its vulnerabilities allow it to be remotely hacked through a network attack, and one flaw that was described in a 2007 security report has remained unaddressed. "Because the device in question is a high-speed unit designed to process a high volume of ballots for an entire county, hacking just one of these machines could enable an attacker to flip the Electoral College and determine the outcome of a presidential election," said the Voting Village report.
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Once the elections are over I suggest changing the thread topic to "How much More Voter Fraud is Happening"

https://www.engadget.com/2018/09/27/voting-machines-vulnerabilities-midterm-election

 
What we need is a fully auditable, transparent system

jusr spit balling here, so there are problems potentials flaws and improvements....

everybody gets a randomized voter number when they register with the board of elections.  The only metadata related to the Id retained is it narrows down to neighborhood in blocks of 1000 voters or more.  Use your over number to vote and to look up your vote and to look up how your neighborhood of 1000 or more people voted all the way up to how the nation voted.

people can then do data analysis on the votes to see if there are any anomalies that might indicate fraud...also entirely transparent, so anybody can download and analyze the results...

 
BigSteelThrill said:
We certainly do NOT need republicans handling any part of the process.  Their history is far worse than any voter fraud.
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Republicans at it again in Georgia.

Found another way to just happen to affect/remove thousands and thousands of minorities.

Careful. Careful. People are willing to kill and be killed to protect these pursuits of citizenry.

 
BigSteelThrill said:
Republicans at it again in Georgia.

Found another way to just happen to affect/remove thousands and thousands of minorities.

Careful. Careful. People are willing to kill and be killed to protect these pursuits of citizenry.
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For anyone interested in the facts, not just BST's histrionics:

https://politics.myajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/lawsuit-challenges-000-stalled-georgia-voter-registrations/PK3tylRO9Z1ICNzDcH0FyH/

The legal action comes after The Associated Press reported this week that at least 53,000 voter registrations were flagged because of the law. Those voter registrations are on hold because of discrepancies between application information and government records, such as a missing hyphen in a last name or data entry errors.

But potential voters can still participate in this year’s elections if they show photo ID either when they go to vote or beforehand. They can also mail identification to county election officials in advance. If their ID resolves the discrepancy, they will immediately become active voters eligible to cast a normal ballot on Georgia’s voting machines.
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Nobody is being denied the ability to vote.

I do like that the Dems are already making excuses.... they know a Red Wave is coming.

eta: forgot to add that in BST's weak attempt at propaganda he left out the fact that 30% of those flagged are white.

 
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Can’t quantify how little voter fraud is happening however, I can point to many instances/laws of voter suppression by the Republicans. 

 
Rove! said:
What we need is a fully auditable, transparent system

jusr spit balling here, so there are problems potentials flaws and improvements....

everybody gets a randomized voter number when they register with the board of elections.  The only metadata related to the Id retained is it narrows down to neighborhood in blocks of 1000 voters or more.  Use your over number to vote and to look up your vote and to look up how your neighborhood of 1000 or more people voted all the way up to how the nation voted.

people can then do data analysis on the votes to see if there are any anomalies that might indicate fraud...also entirely transparent, so anybody can download and analyze the results...
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The difficulty is going to be complying with current laws.  There cannot be any marking on a ballot by which the person casting it can be identified - by anyone. 

Unless we change the secret ballot rules and regs, there's no way to attach a ballot to a person.

 
[scooter] said:
Mail-in ballots of elderly people. It's the most vulnerable aspect of our voting system. Nursing homes are lousy with voter fraud (to borrow a phrase).
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Yup.  And as the article states, it's as much vote influencing as it is filling out the ballot themselves - you don't have to steal the ballot if you can tell the person with limited faculties how to vote.

 
I posted this elsewhere but voting my mail really seems like the way to go.  Request your ballot and fill it out at home where you can research your various initiatives/candidates at the same time.  If "identification" is a concern, an a fingerprint for additional verification to the signature.

 
Conservatives. They are who we have been saying they are.   :yes:

Sen. Cindy Hyde-Smith (R-Miss.) appeared to endorse voter suppression during a campaign stop this month, saying efforts to undermine voting among liberals at certain colleges would be a “great idea.”

“And then they remind me that there’s a lot of liberal folks in those other schools who maybe we don’t want to vote,” Hyde-Smith can be heard telling a small crowd of young people outside her campaign bus in a video taken Nov. 3 and posted on online Thursday. “Maybe we want to make it just a little more difficult. And I think that’s a great idea.”

 
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Mounting evidence of fraud in North Carolina’s 9th Congressional District could indefinitely delay the certification of a winner, as state election officials investigate whether hundreds of absentee ballots were illegally cast or destroyed.

The North Carolina State Board of Elections and Ethics Enforcement has no plans to certify Republican Mark Harris’s 905-vote victory over Democrat Dan McCready, according to an agenda of a board meeting scheduled for Friday morning.

The board is collecting sworn statements from voters in rural Bladen and Robeson counties, near the South Carolina border, who described people coming to their doors and urging them to hand over their absentee ballots, sometimes without filling them out. Others described receiving absentee ballots by mail that they had not requested. It is illegal to take someone else’s ballot and turn it in.
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Whoa. There is fraud going on

 
bananafish said:
Allegations of G.O.P. Election Fraud Shake North Carolina’s Ninth District

Funny how Republicans were so up in arms about imaginary "voter fraud" by minorities but when there's real, systemic fraud that affected a House race you don't hear a peep. Sad!
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This should be a much bigger story.  Imagine if a Dem candidate had done this. It might have bumped George HW Bush coverage this week to the second slot.  That's conservative media bias for you, I guess :shrug:

Also saw a good comment that we should be careful to call this "election fraud," not voter fraud.  Voters did nothing fraudulent here, and there's no reason to feed the narrative that voter fraud is a real thing that necessitates ID checks and whatnot (which obviously would have made zero difference here).

 
TobiasFunke said:
This should be a much bigger story.  Imagine if a Dem candidate had done this. It might have bumped George HW Bush coverage this week to the second slot.  That's conservative media bias for you, I guess :shrug:

Also saw a good comment that we should be careful to call this "election fraud," not voter fraud.  Voters did nothing fraudulent here, and there's no reason to feed the narrative that voter fraud is a real thing that necessitates ID checks and whatnot (which obviously would have made zero difference here).
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Not yet it shouldnt. The implication in that story is that people collected over a thousand absentee ballots and either destroyed them or altered the votes. If the alleged criminals were able to go and collect these ballots it should be pretty darn easy to go ask them questions about their ballot being collected. There would be hundreds of statements from people saying yeah some woman collected my ballot. Not just one.

As of that story that is literally all they have is one woman saying that. That seems odder than the numbers cited in the article. Could be that they got one and then just ran forward and will get more later. But until that happens it isn't that big of a story.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Also saw a good comment that we should be careful to call this "election fraud," not voter fraud.  Voters did nothing fraudulent here, and there's no reason to feed the narrative that voter fraud is a real thing that necessitates ID checks and whatnot (which obviously would have made zero difference here).
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This comment is pretty funny actually. Its like an email went out...

"Guys make sure we do not admit that the implication here is that a woman went around and falsely voted on behalf of other people or destroyed their ballots. Do not refer to this woman as a voter. This would destroy our whole narrative that voters carefully weigh the penalties involved and make logical decisions regarding criminal behavior 100% of the time. As always, thanks for sticking to the talking points."

 
parasaurolophus said:
Not yet it shouldnt. The implication in that story is that people collected over a thousand absentee ballots and either destroyed them or altered the votes. If the alleged criminals were able to go and collect these ballots it should be pretty darn easy to go ask them questions about their ballot being collected. There would be hundreds of statements from people saying yeah some woman collected my ballot. Not just one.

As of that story that is literally all they have is one woman saying that. That seems odder than the numbers cited in the article. Could be that they got one and then just ran forward and will get more later. But until that happens it isn't that big of a story.
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There's not "just one"

Earlier this week, Montgomery’s complaint, along with four other sworn statements, and a sixth which was not notarized, were submitted to the North Carolina election board by a lawyer for the state’s Democratic Party.
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And obviously you're not going to get hundreds of statements right away, for practical reasons.  But data/patterns from both the general and the primary election that seem effectively impossible without some sort of fraud, combined with five sworn statements describing behavior that would generate the otherwise effectively impossible returns, is fairly persuasive in my opinion.

 
TobiasFunke said:
There's not "just one"

And obviously you're not going to get hundreds of statements right away, for practical reasons.  But data/patterns from both the general and the primary election that seem effectively impossible without some sort of fraud, combined with five sworn statements describing behavior that would generate the otherwise effectively impossible returns, is fairly persuasive in my opinion.
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There is just one. Only one of the six dealt with collecting ballots. The other 5 dealt with other issues. 

 
parasaurolophus said:
This comment is pretty funny actually. Its like an email went out...

"Guys make sure we do not admit that the implication here is that a woman went around and falsely voted on behalf of other people or destroyed their ballots. Do not refer to this woman as a voter. This would destroy our whole narrative that voters carefully weigh the penalties involved and make logical decisions regarding criminal behavior 100% of the time. As always, thanks for sticking to the talking points." 
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Except that's not "our" narrative at all. "Our" narrative is that voter ID laws accomplish nothing because in-person voter fraud is essentially non-existent, and that voter ID laws are therefore just a way for Republicans to artificially shape the electorate in a way that favors them. 

 
parasaurolophus said:
There is just one. Only one of the six dealt with collecting ballots. The other 5 dealt with other issues. 
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Come on. 

There's also this:

Steve Stone, the chairman of the Robeson County Board of Elections, told the Washington Post that election officials became concerned in August by people dropping off large numbers of registration forms and absentee-ballot requests. He said that county residents had also made reports of people going door to door, telling voters that their registrations had been dropped, that they needed to re-register, and that they should sign an absentee-ballot-request form. The large number of complaints prompted state investigators to seize completed absentee-ballot-request forms and envelopes from both counties in the days after the election.
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It's fairly obvious that something is going on here, and that something is that someone cheated on behalf of the apparent "winner" of a House seat in both the primaries and the general election. That's plenty to make this a much bigger story, regardless of the number of sworn statements about a specific type of cheating that have been filed to date.

 
roadkill1292 said:
I'm not sure why righties will continue to defend Republicans on voter suppression charges since Republicans admit to using tactics designed  to suppress voting. They don't even apologize for it any more.
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Yep. Michigan voters passed with 67% a proposal to make voting easier (automatic registration when getting a drivers license, same day registration, straught ticket voting). The lameduck GOP Congress already has a proposal up to roll back parts of the proposal. 

 
TobiasFunke said:
It's fairly obvious that something is going on here, and that something is that someone cheated on behalf of the apparent "winner" of a House seat in both the primaries and the general election. That's plenty to make this a much bigger story, regardless of the number of sworn statements about a specific type of cheating that have been filed to date.
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I will agree something is going on here. The nice thing about whats being alleged is that it will be easy to gather really concrete proof. 

If absentee ballots were collected door to door by tricking people into leaving spots empty or giving them unsealed envelopes it will be very easy to gather tons of hard evidence. 

If people were duped into requesting an absentee ballot and then that ballot was stolen and fraudulently filled out it would also be really easy to catch that. The number of double vote attempts alone would stand out like a sore thumb. 

I am not sure how long such evidence gathering would take, but it doesn't seem like it should take very long to compile a pretty hefty starting point. 

 
roadkill1292 said:
I'm not sure why righties will continue to defend Republicans on voter suppression charges since Republicans admit to using tactics designed  to suppress voting. They don't even apologize for it any more.
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Between voter suppression, the concerted effort to discredit election results especially late returns, and the absurd power grabs by state legislatures during lame duck sessions following Dem wins, I think it's fair to say that Republican Party is simply anti-democracy.  Some of it can be fixed with a new Voting Rights Act if/when the Dems take back control at the fed level, but I don't really know what can be done about the state legislature power grabs. There have been at least three in the last two election cycles, North Carolina, Wisconsin and Michigan. Maybe we need to eliminate lame-duck legislative sessions except for emergencies or something. And vote straight ticket in opposition to the GOP at every level of government until they come around on this whole crazy "democracy" thing, obviously.

 
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