Homer J Simpson
I don't push
Conspiracy theory?
Really? I think your conspiracy theories are getting the best of you. You're the real nut job around here.
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How much Voter Fraud is Happening (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Orange Crush
- Start date
There are millions of people living in this country illegally and legally who I don't believe have a right to vote. I'm in favor of not letting those people vote.
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Homer J Simpson
I don't push
Homer J Simpson
I don't push
joffer
Footballguy
We'll just assume there is
I don't now. But I think there should be some impediments set up to keep them from doing so.
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
Don't tell me you believe in it to? That there is some nefarious plot to suppress voters? Really?Conspiracy theory?
Really? I think your conspiracy theories are getting the best of you. You're the real nut job around here.
Todd Andrews
Footballguy
MaxKooK conspiracy theory: Good Republicans will fight to suppress the ability of Americans to vote and fight to hide the identity of people buying American elections.
Win-Win!!
Win-Win!!
Thunderlips
Footballguy
If the Republicans worked with half as hard to come up with an attractive political platform as they did to supress Democratic voting....they'd win most elections.
Homer J Simpson
I don't push
That's exactly what it is, and it's not even a secret.Don't tell me you believe in it to? That there is some nefarious plot to suppress voters? Really?Conspiracy theory?
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Max is in a total separate reality from everyone else.
That's why he keeps talking about other peoples "truths". Because his truth is removed from reality.
Even if the truth is laid bare before him, he will call names and then start to spin, spin, spin.
So very crazy and so very conservative.
That's why he keeps talking about other peoples "truths". Because his truth is removed from reality.
Even if the truth is laid bare before him, he will call names and then start to spin, spin, spin.
So very crazy and so very conservative.
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
Sorry, but It's a left wing delusion. Putting some process and rules around voting is not suppression as much as you would like to believe. Nothing BST listed in his bullet points comes close to suppression.That's exactly what it is, and it's not even a secret.Don't tell me you believe in it to? That there is some nefarious plot to suppress voters? Really?Conspiracy theory?
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
Homer J Simpson
I don't push
Yeah, I'm the delusional one.Sorry, but It's a left wing delusion. Putting some process and rules around voting is not suppression as much as you would like to believe. Nothing BST listed in his bullet points comes close to suppression.That's exactly what it is, and it's not even a secret.Don't tell me you believe in it to? That there is some nefarious plot to suppress voters? Really?Conspiracy theory?
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
You certainly are. Glad we can agree on something.Yeah, I'm the delusional one.Sorry, but It's a left wing delusion. Putting some process and rules around voting is not suppression as much as you would like to believe. Nothing BST listed in his bullet points comes close to suppression.That's exactly what it is, and it's not even a secret.Don't tell me you believe in it to? That there is some nefarious plot to suppress voters? Really?Conspiracy theory?
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
And what about the MULTIPLE Republicans who state its exactly what they are doing? Including in the post with the bullet points. And even in the videos before that.Sorry, but It's a left wing delusion. Putting some process and rules around voting is not suppression as much as you would like to believe. Nothing BST listed in his bullet points comes close to suppression.That's exactly what it is, and it's not even a secret.Don't tell me you believe in it to? That there is some nefarious plot to suppress voters? Really?Conspiracy theory?
drummer
Footballguy
Homer J Simpson
I don't push
RINOs!!!And what about the MULTIPLE Republicans who state its exactly what they are doing? Including in the post with the bullet points. And even in the videos before that.Sorry, but It's a left wing delusion. Putting some process and rules around voting is not suppression as much as you would like to believe. Nothing BST listed in his bullet points comes close to suppression.That's exactly what it is, and it's not even a secret.Don't tell me you believe in it to? That there is some nefarious plot to suppress voters? Really?Conspiracy theory?
99% of legitimate voters have proper id and for the other 1% it is an easy fix. What it does is make it harder for illegal votes to be cast and gives some accountability so you can stop people from voting multiple times under factious names, for dead people, or people who have moved.
Yenrub
Footballguy
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Rich Conway
Footballguy
I'm not necessarily in favor of making it harder for apathetic voters to vote, but I see no great need to make it easier, either.
timschochet
Footballguy
The real problem is that too many Democrats are winning.
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
What's that term called when you take what someone said...throw it completely out the window....make up something else not based in fact...then accuse them of saying that instead?
That's what you just did here.
Koya
Footballguy
What then is your response to the ADMITTED FACT that the Republican Party is motivated by limiting the votes of dems in an effort to tilt elections their way as opposed to taking steps to truly ensure a more fair and verifiable voting process?I can't speak for anyone else, but personally I have no issue with a well thought out and fairly executed plan that is properly phased in. Sadly that's not what we have been facing. Instead it's forcing the position of one party in a purposeful effort to help their own electoral chances even if/when it not only disenfranchises voters in the process, but especially population groups that have traditionally been politically and economically disenfranchised from a historic perspective.
It's about the cold, calculating and anti-American motivation that so disturbs many of us as opposed to the red herring goal of stopping a use that, by and large, hardly exists, if at all in a meaningful way.
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Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Sure... that's one of the big arguments for voter registration. It's a barrier to participation in the process, but it does serve a purpose.
What's the argument for making registration hard, or introducing additional barriers?
Registration only makes sure that the person is eligible to vote and at least at one time lived in the voting district. There is nothing that stops anyone from showing up on election day and saying "I am John Smith" and voting. Our voting system has no checks on anyone showing up. It is impossible to stop someone from voting four, five, six, or seven times at different voting locations or even at the same locations at different times of the day. It is not really a barrier since ID's are available for less than the price of a value meal and even free in many states. It is a necessary step to ensure that our elections are not being gamed by voters, which right now it is way too easy.
ETA: Even a simple thing like dipping one's thumb in ink once they voted would be a step in the right direction.
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What do you have against even a smidgen of accountability for people being who they say they are when they vote? It is is really stupid on our part. It was an OK system when everyone in the community knew everyone else. But in today's world, it is a simple and necessary check to ensure credibility in our election process. All this disenfranchise stuff is smoke and mirrors to keep the Democrats illegitimate voting base.proninja said:
Let's start with what you mean by "hard" and "additional." As an example, some say people should be allowed to register the day of the vote. Others say a person should be registered prior to the day of the vote. Is one harder than the other?
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Two trips is harder than one. And there's an urgency to voting (lots of publicity, immediate stake in the outcome, knowing where to go, held on one single day) that most people don't feel with registration. Do a quick Google search if you're interested in how much advance registration suppresses turnout -- it's significant.
Trips where? Federal law requires states to allow you to register by mail. Your urgency issue is a non-starter. People are taught about elections and voting starting in grade school. And the media starts talking about elections well in advance of voting day. Illinois is a pretty liberal state and it requires 30 days advance registration. If it was as significant as you are stating, it would have been changed by now.
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IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
When Republican politicians and their fans propose voter ID laws, it's pretty much all about reducing voter turnout among those who are likely to vote Democrat. I don't think there's any reasonable dispute about that.Sorry, but It's a left wing delusion. Putting some process and rules around voting is not suppression as much as you would like to believe.That's exactly what it is, and it's not even a secret.Don't tell me you believe in it to? That there is some nefarious plot to suppress voters? Really?Conspiracy theory?
There's such a thing as being legitimately concerned about voter fraud, but that's pretty clearly not what's going on with these voter ID initiatives since they wouldn't really do anything to prevent the types of voter fraud most likely to occur.
(I'm not saying that Democratic politicians are any nobler than Republican politicians. They'd pull the same crap if they had the chance. It's very easy to find examples of Democrats flip-flopping on the merits of filibustering depending on which party controls the Senate, for example, which is the same idea. Both sides are perfectly willing to use procedural mechanisms to gain an edge when they're not sure they can win on the merits. It just so happens that on the voter ID issue, it's more blatant among Republicans because they're the ones manufacturing a fake solution to a transparently overstated problem.)
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Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
I hope you make better arguments in court. Maybe with some, you know, citations and stuff.
These are consistent with what I've seen before.
As the second one mentions, the effect of eliminating registration in terms of the composition of the electorate is fairly small though -- probably less than a 1% shift in the Republicans favor. That's still important in a country where most elections where the winner takes 50-60% of the two-party vote, but it gets overstated.
When those articles state that voter turnout would increase by six percent, that's ambiguous. Do they mean it would go from 40% to 46%, or from 40% to 42.4%?
Homer J Simpson
I don't push
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
I believe it's the former -- my memory from past reading is that those numbers refer to overall turnout (rather than using current turnout as the denominator). But I didn't look for (or see) anything in the blurbs I dug up that said so. So I wouldn't bet my house on it.
ETA: "estimated to raise voter participation rates by 5 to 10 percentage points" suggests that I'm remembering correctly. That's less ambiguous than "five to ten percent".
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Clifford
Footballguy
Seriously? Focusing on ideas rather than disenfranchising voters makes someone not a republican to you? This is the reason your party never does anything constructive. The few who are honest and interested in maintaining some degree of integrity and leadership are drummed out by people like you. Everyone knows "voter fraud" is just a boogeyman excuse for laws meant to disenfranchise minorities and the poor who tend to vote democrat. It's the most obvious of all the GOP lies.So...just to be clear...when the GOP starts thinking like Democrats then they will have more appeal to you? Why not just continue to vote for Democrats?The Republican Party would also have far more appeal to many (myself included) if there were more thinking along these lines.proninja said:We need more politicians like thisMaurile Tremblay said:
njherdfan
Footballguy
I saw a similar point made when NC reduced its early voting period from 17 to 10 days; someone pointed out that New York doesn't even allow early voting, as a way of arguing that the changes in NC weren't a big deal. To my mind, though, there's a difference between a state (like New York) never allowing early voting or something similar, and a state (like NC) rolling back its previous allowances. It's harder, IMO, to come up with a justification for laws that do make it harder to some degree to vote without any corresponding evidence of voter fraud or any real need for the legislation.
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
Seriously? Focusing on ideas rather than disenfranchising voters makes someone not a republican to you? This is the reason your party never does anything constructive. The few who are honest and interested in maintaining some degree of integrity and leadership are drummed out by people like you. Everyone knows "voter fraud" is just a boogeyman excuse for laws meant to disenfranchise minorities and the poor who tend to vote democrat. It's the most obvious of all the GOP lies.So...just to be clear...when the GOP starts thinking like Democrats then they will have more appeal to you? Why not just continue to vote for Democrats?The Republican Party would also have far more appeal to many (myself included) if there were more thinking along these lines.proninja said:We need more politicians like thisMaurile Tremblay said:
That's what the left thinks. You don't speak for everyone. We realize the left hates everything on the right and is going to "drama-queen" every GOP proposal to the Nth degree. Kind of like the "War on Women" crap they pulled during the last election too.
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As I said, if a liberal state like Illinois considered it significant it would have been changed by now.
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