Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Pretty good is not elite.
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QB Joe Flacco, IND (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter DenverBroncos
- Start date
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Last 3 years he has an average rating of 101 average TD's 6, less then one interception, 250 ypg and he's 6-2Love him or hate him his last 3 years average to an elite level with a Supber Bowl win, IMHO
But if you do want to go off of QBR, he had a better post season QBR (you know, when it counted) than Rodgers, Brady or Peyton.
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
Flacco did have a nice run in the playoffs and did what many teams and players want to accomplish which is winning a SB. Ravens fans and Flacco fans should be happy with that.Flacco though is still not an elite QB. He does not have the numbers or the statistics to say he is elite. Elite QB's are ones that can carry their teams to multiple wins simply due to their high level of play. Elite QB's are ones that are on the road to the hall of fame. Flacco has proven to fans and to critics alike that he can win a SB. That is good news for both Flacco and the Ravens. But let's not pretend like he is elite.
matttyl
Footballguy
I'm not sure anyone is calling him "elite"....and all I'm saying is that he doesn't suck. He's a very good NFL QB, and I believe is only getting better (his recent numbers with the new OC show that). I think he'll be a top 10 fantasy QB next year (assuming he plays a full 16 games). He was #13 this past season in my league, and really didn't play in week 17. If he had a 40 point game in week 17 this year (great week, but not unheard of), he would have been #10 in my league.
cstu
Footballguy
I hate the word 'elite' but what more do you want than 11 TD's, 0 INT's in four playoff games?
matttyl
Footballguy
And if you include his last full game prior to the playoffs, you can say he had 14 TD's, 0 INT's in 5 games vs some very good teams (the only non-playoff team was the reigning Super Bowl champs).
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Lumping two playoff runs that I would merely call "pretty good" in with his "elite" playoff run and then collectively calling the whole thing elite is about as arbitrary as it gets. That would like saying a QB had three games of: 1 TD 1 INT
1 TD 1 INT
5 TDs 0 INTs
And then saying he was elite over that 3-game stretch cause he had 7 TDs and only 2 INTs.
Picking the starting and ending points in the manner you did is disingenuous.
The word "elite" is almost always reserved for quarterbacks who are elite on a consistent and regular basis. Flacco was spectacular in these playoffs, but that was after a fairly inconsistent regular season, so let's see him play at high level week in and week out for a prolonged period of time, and then we can call him elite.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
The bottom line is that if you were to ask a 100 people if they want him as their playoff QB you would get a resounding "yes"....that doesnt happen with "pretty good" QB's
Jesus Christ. My fault for opening this thread.James Daulton
Footballguy
Hopefully Ozzie has read this thread and can make these amazing arguments to Flacco's agent. I'd love to get him signed for a couple million less. You guys are doing great work in here, keep it up! 
renesauz
IBL Representative
Sure it is, but let's not pretend this is a guy who's been in the league for 8 years. Counting years one and two is just as arbitrary given the historical tendency of QBs to signifcantly improve over their first three seasons.It's too soon to firmly ID Flacco as "elite", that much most will agree with. His 2012 regular season was OK, but not "elite". He has, however, shown signs. Many were calling for him to join the upper tier of QBs in the pre-season. For some, Flacco's playoff performance was just a natural progression/improvement that was already EXPECTED...IE: Not a 4 game fluky streak, but an indication of continued growth.'Ghost Rider said:
AT this point, I'm comfortable calling Flacco very good, with as good a chance as any other QB to join that "elite" tier.
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
I would say Flacco had an elite playoff run. He could very well have turned that corner and start becoming an elite QB by consistently playing at a high level. However, he to me is the epitome of a good QB that you can win a SB with. That is not a knock against Flacco in fact as I mentioned it is positive for him and for the Ravens. He played extremely well in the playoffs and everyone should give him credit for playing well in the most important of times. But how many QB's are elite in the NFL? There is a list of maybe 5 guys that I see as elite QB's. If Flacco is elite then that would move the discussion to 12 or 13 guys and in no way do I think half the starting QB's in the NFL are elite.This is sports and people get caught up in a good run and throw out the word elite a little too loosely.I have to agree that Flacco had an elite playoff run and played at an elite level. However, I don't consider him as one of the elite QB's in the game and it is not even close to be honest.'cstu said:
Elite is all relative - Flacco has one of only 32 similar jobs on the planet - that makes him pretty elite by almost any standard.Of those 32 job openings, he is one of a few that has proven capable of leading his team to 5-straight playoff appearances, 3 championship game appearances, and one super bowl victory.Of the 7 active QBs who have won a SB: Roethlisberger, Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, and Flacco- Flacco is the only one to have been in the playoffs for the last 5 years- Eli, who many seem to want to compare him to, has missed the playoffs 3 out of the last 5 years.- Flacco has played in three Conference Championship games in the last 5 years - of the others, only Brady and Ben have played in as many as two.
Koya
Footballguy
Honesty, the parcing of words really doesn't mean anything. Although it seems that some bitter folks who lost to the Ravens (well, their team did at least) seem far more biased than Baltimore fans who generally seem to recognize that Flacco is not "elite" but has continually performed between very good and Elite during the playoffs the last couple years - and has done a solid enough job during the regular season to get them there 5 times in a row.At the end of the day, the Bronco's lost, NE lost, SF lost - and Flacco was one of if not the biggest reason it all happened. What else do you need?Take your silly word elite, I'll take super bowl wins.
Wise Old Owl
Footballguy
Basically this. The only people saying that he is better than Brees/Brady/Rodgers/whatever is his agent, and I doubt even he believes that. We are saying he was nails in the playoffs and won a Superbowl, hes easily a top 15 qb and maybe a top 10. I'd take him over Ben and Eli. Somewhere along the the line the consensus became "he's another Cassell or Cutler" when his best comparison should be Matt Ryan. Hes an above average quarterback in a great situation.'Koya said:
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
The thing that Impressed me the most about Flacco is how calm he is. I'm not sure I saw him break a sweat in the SB.If I were to pick a flaw I would say he sorta just Brett Favres the deep ball and has benefited from his receivers taking the ball put of the air. Not taking anything away from his run, just my observations.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
We're all geniuses after the fact right? Where were these reports of suitors back in December? How are the Ravens kicking themselves when it's already been reported by the team's owner that they offered him top 5 QB money LAST year? Flacco declined. 
They won't do it, but I'd love to see Baltimore just slap him with the non-exclusive tag.
They won't do it, but I'd love to see Baltimore just slap him with the non-exclusive tag.
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Breesisdaman
Footballguy
Why in the world would he? Von Miller and Champ are out
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cstu
Footballguy
Breesisdaman
Footballguy
That was Dallas Clark dropping a pass that hit him right on the hands. Should have been a Ravens TD how is that giving the Broncos a TD?
az_prof
Footballguy
I agree. Flacco has looked pretty good to me. Clark let him down on that one. He has played better than Manning in first half.
Breesisdaman
Footballguy
Look Flacco isnt setting the world on fire but considering the circumstances he is playing much better than I expected. He has just lost his starting right tackle and his #2 WR and Dallas Clark is inconsistent . He should have had that TD catch. I was really expecting much more Ray Rice and less pass in this game but the Broncos have held that run game in check pretty much.
mr roboto
Footballguy
I think he meant the swing pass that ended up a 30 yd completion. DE should have had a pick 6 on that one.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Eh, I'm not a Ravens fan but people need to shut up about Flacco. During the off-season and this game he has lost his right tackle and THREE best receivers (Pitta, Boldin, now Jacoby). He's not getting much help.BusterTBronco said:
90% of the QBs in this league would give their left nut to play as Flacco did for a four-game playoff stretch... he was cash money and carried that team to a Super Bowl... then WON IT.
Ya'll jokers commenting on him negatively. Or comparing him to possibly the best QB in NFL history. Never seen this much hate or lack of recognition for a Super Bowl winning QB (especially one who carried the team on his back for the entire playoff run).
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lod01
Footballguy
Well, that's what happens when Peyton hangs 6 TDs on you...My point was that Baltimore's Offense isn't designed to be throwing the rock 40+ times per game (except in a blowout loss)
EDIT: Exhibit A: Compare their strength at WR vs. their strength at RB
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mr roboto
Footballguy
Yep. Their game plan looks old and tired.
The_Man
Footballguy
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Wise Old Owl
Footballguy
Game plan is fine, its the personnel. Drops and lack of separation from receivers all over makes difference. The real question is if they find a way to improve on this.
That was the essence of my original post...they didn't build their team with strength in the passing game.
az_prof
Footballguy
This. Shut down Smith, and you the only other option is Rice. They are really missing Boldin.
Chaka
Footballguy
Breesisdaman
Footballguy
I dont think he sucks but they do need to go back and fix these drop problems and get healthy on the oline and make a trade for a legit WR and TE. This Rec corps is pitiful.BusterTBronco said:
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
The problem with Flacco is he is a good QB and not a great/elite one.
He is better than the average NFL QB. It is impossible to find guys like Manning/Brady/Brees/Rogers and even some of the young guys like RG3/Wilson/Luck/Kaep have showed at times they can carry their teams more than a guy like Flacco.
The nice thing about Flacco though is he proved in the past that you can win regular season and playoff games with him and that is an asset.
The bad thing about Flacco is he won't make up the difference of taking a bad team and making them good. There are some qb's that can carry teams and he is just not one of them. He also has an inflated contract for the type of QB he is.
He is better than the average NFL QB. It is impossible to find guys like Manning/Brady/Brees/Rogers and even some of the young guys like RG3/Wilson/Luck/Kaep have showed at times they can carry their teams more than a guy like Flacco.
The nice thing about Flacco though is he proved in the past that you can win regular season and playoff games with him and that is an asset.
The bad thing about Flacco is he won't make up the difference of taking a bad team and making them good. There are some qb's that can carry teams and he is just not one of them. He also has an inflated contract for the type of QB he is.
Exactly. Would 2/3 or so of NFL teams like to have flacco as their QB? Yes they would. But that contract was truly nuts.
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
Middle of the road QB that had a good supporting cast and coaches. Got rewarded with $100mm for not losing important games.
