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Breaking Bad on AMC (9 Viewers)

IvanKaramazov said:
Abraham said:
Watched the second half last night on YouTube. It's still excellent, although I also like the idea that it was all a dream while he was freezing to death in the car.
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I would actually prefer to think of it that way, but I just can't make my brain accept that interpretation.
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Is this because that you can't get past the idea that two billionaires would rather write a harmless check for 9 million rather than live out their lives in fear of the possibility of being assassinated?

 
Rove! said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Abraham said:
Watched the second half last night on YouTube. It's still excellent, although I also like the idea that it was all a dream while he was freezing to death in the car.
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I would actually prefer to think of it that way, but I just can't make my brain accept that interpretation.
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Is this because that you can't get past the idea that two billionaires would rather write a harmless check for 9 million rather than live out their lives in fear of the possibility of being assassinated?
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No, I would still have a problem with the way the Schwartzes were handled regardless. I just like the "dream" interpretation because it makes the ending more of a downer, which I like in this case.

 
Homer J Simpson said:
Jaysus said:
Rove! said:
Homer J Simpson said:
Read this Warming Glow post and watch the video.

http://www.uproxx.com/tv/2013/10/marty-robbinss-el-paso-is-the-badger-to-breaking-bads-skinny-pete/
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:goodposting: :goodposting: :goodposting: :goodposting:

that is awesome
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I read Warming Glow... I saw that post... but I skipped it. It rules, thanks for posting it here.
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It's brilliant.

75,000X better than the dream idiocy.
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Seriously. Even mere talk or longing for it to have been a dream is a disservice to the show and insult to its creators.

 
The worst Breaking Bad-related internet post?

http://www.bankrate.com/finance/investing/bad-financial-choices-breaking-bad.aspx?ic_id=most_shared_default#slide=1

Although I think that some of the critics of how realistic the show is might have preferred if the show just started and ended here:

In season one, Walt is introduced as a bored chemistry teacher who moonlights at a car wash. His wife is pregnant. He works at the school his son, Walter Jr., attends.

When Walt collapses at the car wash, he is diagnosed with inoperable lung cancer and given maybe only a few years to live. So he keeps the diagnosis a secret, quits the car wash, falls in league with ex-student-turned-meth-cook Jesse Pinkman (Aaron Paul) and produces high-grade methamphetamine to make more money. It would have been better for Walt's family if he'd just bought weekly lottery tickets, says Lewis Perkins, a financial adviser at California-based Comprehensive Financial Solutions Inc.

But seriously, a variable annuity is a good way to provide for loved ones, Perkins says.

In a variable annuity, you give money to an insurance company, and it agrees to make periodic payments to you immediately or at a future date. Put just $10,000 into a variable annuity that invests the money, and you could get a decent return, Perkins says. If the annuity offers a death benefit and you die before the insurer has made payments to you, your beneficiary will receive a specified amount.
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Leeroy Jenkins said:
Seriously. Even mere talk or longing for it to have been a dream is a disservice to the show and insult to its creators.
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It's the opposite of this. When people write "serious" literature or produce a "serious" film, they expect it to be discussed, picked apart, and analyzed in ways that might never have occurred to them at the time of production. The fact that people approach a television show in that way is the greatest compliment anybody can bestow on the writers and directors.

People who uncritically take everything at face value and rationalize every little inconsistency or implausibility are the ones who are insulting the creators. That sort of attitude is fine for mindless stuff like TWD, but it's not appropriate for this kind of program. Gilligan and his colleagues deserve to be held to a higher standard than that.

Edit: To clarify, there's nothing wrong with just watching the show and enjoying the story and leaving it at that. Shakespeare can be enjoyed that way too. But nobody ever says that it's we're insulting the Bard when we point out that Romeo and Juliet isn't up the standards of King Lear or Othello, or when we talk about multiple ways to explain Hamlet's character.

 
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IvanKaramazov said:
Leeroy Jenkins said:
Seriously. Even mere talk or longing for it to have been a dream is a disservice to the show and insult to its creators.
Click to expand...
It's the opposite of this. When people write "serious" literature or produce a "serious" film, they expect it to be discussed, picked apart, and analyzed in ways that might never have occurred to them at the time of production. The fact that people approach a television show in that way is the greatest compliment anybody can bestow on the writers and directors.

People who uncritically take everything at face value and rationalize every little inconsistency or implausibility are the ones who are insulting the creators. That sort of attitude is fine for mindless stuff like TWD, but it's not appropriate for this kind of program. Gilligan and his colleagues deserve to be held to a higher standard than that.

Edit: To clarify, there's nothing wrong with just watching the show and enjoying the story and leaving it at that. Shakespeare can be enjoyed that way too. But nobody ever says that it's we're insulting the Bard when we point out that Romeo and Juliet isn't up the standards of King Lear or Othello, or when we talk about multiple ways to explain Hamlet's character.
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Discussing, analyzing and picking apart I thoroughly enjoy. Saying you think it was a dream or wishing that it was a dream because it would make the finale more satisfying to you is not same thing.

 
Long Ball Larry said:
The worst Breaking Bad-related internet post?

http://www.bankrate.com/finance/investing/bad-financial-choices-breaking-bad.aspx?ic_id=most_shared_default#slide=1

Although I think that some of the critics of how realistic the show is might have preferred if the show just started and ended here:

In season one, Walt is introduced as a bored chemistry teacher who moonlights at a car wash. His wife is pregnant. He works at the school his son, Walter Jr., attends.

When Walt collapses at the car wash, he is diagnosed with inoperable lung cancer and given maybe only a few years to live. So he keeps the diagnosis a secret, quits the car wash, falls in league with ex-student-turned-meth-cook Jesse Pinkman (Aaron Paul) and produces high-grade methamphetamine to make more money. It would have been better for Walt's family if he'd just bought weekly lottery tickets, says Lewis Perkins, a financial adviser at California-based Comprehensive Financial Solutions Inc.

But seriously, a variable annuity is a good way to provide for loved ones, Perkins says.

In a variable annuity, you give money to an insurance company, and it agrees to make periodic payments to you immediately or at a future date. Put just $10,000 into a variable annuity that invests the money, and you could get a decent return, Perkins says. If the annuity offers a death benefit and you die before the insurer has made payments to you, your beneficiary will receive a specified amount.
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:lmao: :lmao:

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Leeroy Jenkins said:
Seriously. Even mere talk or longing for it to have been a dream is a disservice to the show and insult to its creators.
Click to expand...
It's the opposite of this. When people write "serious" literature or produce a "serious" film, they expect it to be discussed, picked apart, and analyzed in ways that might never have occurred to them at the time of production. The fact that people approach a television show in that way is the greatest compliment anybody can bestow on the writers and directors.

People who uncritically take everything at face value and rationalize every little inconsistency or implausibility are the ones who are insulting the creators. That sort of attitude is fine for mindless stuff like TWD, but it's not appropriate for this kind of program. Gilligan and his colleagues deserve to be held to a higher standard than that.

Edit: To clarify, there's nothing wrong with just watching the show and enjoying the story and leaving it at that. Shakespeare can be enjoyed that way too. But nobody ever says that it's we're insulting the Bard when we point out that Romeo and Juliet isn't up the standards of King Lear or Othello, or when we talk about multiple ways to explain Hamlet's character.
Click to expand...
Discussing, analyzing and picking apart I thoroughly enjoy. Saying you think it was a dream or wishing that it was a dream because it would make the finale more satisfying to you is not same thing.
Click to expand...
Of course it is. That's what we mean by "analyzing and picking apart."

Again, for the record, Gilligan clearly did not intend the finale as a dream sequence. The thing with Jesse absolutely nips this in the bud. Moreover, there's no serious precedent for dream sequences anywhere in the franchise. The closest thing I can think of is when Jesse hallucinates and sees the two Jehovah's Witnesses as biker enforcers, but that's not really the same thing and it occurs all the way back in season one. A dream-sequence finale would be wildly out of place for franchise that plays things straight in every other episode.

The only things this interpretation has going for it, that I can tell, is that it provides a bleaker ending, and it resolves all of the events in the finale that pushed a lot of people past the point of suspension of disbelief. It's not the "right" interpretation IMO and I don't think it's even a viable interpretation, but it's a fun idea to bat around.

 
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Guys, I hate to be the one to say this because it's really ####### important, but I just saw an interview with Gilligan and he said he definitely DID intend it to be a dream sequence but it was three different dreams each one was a different possible ending. He also recommended a variable annuity and said Jesse was never on price is right and that was just the actor who played Jesse (I think his name was Ron Paul).

 
The fact that people approach a television show in that way is the greatest compliment anybody can bestow on the writers and directors.
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I imagine the worst thing you could say to a writer is that it was enjoyable fluff without much to think about.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Leeroy Jenkins said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Leeroy Jenkins said:
Seriously. Even mere talk or longing for it to have been a dream is a disservice to the show and insult to its creators.
Click to expand...
It's the opposite of this. When people write "serious" literature or produce a "serious" film, they expect it to be discussed, picked apart, and analyzed in ways that might never have occurred to them at the time of production. The fact that people approach a television show in that way is the greatest compliment anybody can bestow on the writers and directors.

People who uncritically take everything at face value and rationalize every little inconsistency or implausibility are the ones who are insulting the creators. That sort of attitude is fine for mindless stuff like TWD, but it's not appropriate for this kind of program. Gilligan and his colleagues deserve to be held to a higher standard than that.

Edit: To clarify, there's nothing wrong with just watching the show and enjoying the story and leaving it at that. Shakespeare can be enjoyed that way too. But nobody ever says that it's we're insulting the Bard when we point out that Romeo and Juliet isn't up the standards of King Lear or Othello, or when we talk about multiple ways to explain Hamlet's character.
Click to expand...
Discussing, analyzing and picking apart I thoroughly enjoy. Saying you think it was a dream or wishing that it was a dream because it would make the finale more satisfying to you is not same thing.
Click to expand...
Of course it is. That's what we mean by "analyzing and picking apart."

Again, for the record, Gilligan clearly did not intend the finale as a dream sequence. The thing with Jesse absolutely nips this in the bud. Moreover, there's no serious precedent for dream sequences anywhere in the franchise. The closest thing I can think of is when Jesse hallucinates and sees the two Jehovah's Witnesses as biker enforcers, but that's not really the same thing and it occurs all the way back in season one. A dream-sequence finale would be wildly out of place for franchise that plays things straight in every other episode.

The only things this interpretation has going for it, that I can tell, is that it provides a bleaker ending, and it resolves all of the events in the finale that pushed a lot of people past the point of suspension of disbelief. It's not the "right" interpretation IMO and I don't think it's even a viable interpretation, but it's a fun idea to bat around.
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Walt dies alone, Skylar is still under indictment, Marie is alone, Hank is dead, Walt Jr has no father and probably no mother soon, Holly will be essentially parentless, Jesse has no money no resources and no legitimate marketable skills, Gretchen and Elliot may or may not give the money to Walt Jr, and worst of all Saul is probably managing a Cinnabun, Sure, Walt gets to destroy his blue and kill some enemies but this is hardly a rosy ending for anyone. Everyone's lives that Walt touched are damaged or destroyed.

 
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dparker713 said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Leeroy Jenkins said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Leeroy Jenkins said:
Seriously. Even mere talk or longing for it to have been a dream is a disservice to the show and insult to its creators.
Click to expand...
It's the opposite of this. When people write "serious" literature or produce a "serious" film, they expect it to be discussed, picked apart, and analyzed in ways that might never have occurred to them at the time of production. The fact that people approach a television show in that way is the greatest compliment anybody can bestow on the writers and directors.

People who uncritically take everything at face value and rationalize every little inconsistency or implausibility are the ones who are insulting the creators. That sort of attitude is fine for mindless stuff like TWD, but it's not appropriate for this kind of program. Gilligan and his colleagues deserve to be held to a higher standard than that.

Edit: To clarify, there's nothing wrong with just watching the show and enjoying the story and leaving it at that. Shakespeare can be enjoyed that way too. But nobody ever says that it's we're insulting the Bard when we point out that Romeo and Juliet isn't up the standards of King Lear or Othello, or when we talk about multiple ways to explain Hamlet's character.
Click to expand...
Discussing, analyzing and picking apart I thoroughly enjoy. Saying you think it was a dream or wishing that it was a dream because it would make the finale more satisfying to you is not same thing.
Click to expand...
Of course it is. That's what we mean by "analyzing and picking apart."

Again, for the record, Gilligan clearly did not intend the finale as a dream sequence. The thing with Jesse absolutely nips this in the bud. Moreover, there's no serious precedent for dream sequences anywhere in the franchise. The closest thing I can think of is when Jesse hallucinates and sees the two Jehovah's Witnesses as biker enforcers, but that's not really the same thing and it occurs all the way back in season one. A dream-sequence finale would be wildly out of place for franchise that plays things straight in every other episode.

The only things this interpretation has going for it, that I can tell, is that it provides a bleaker ending, and it resolves all of the events in the finale that pushed a lot of people past the point of suspension of disbelief. It's not the "right" interpretation IMO and I don't think it's even a viable interpretation, but it's a fun idea to bat around.
Click to expand...
Walt dies alone, Skylar is still under indictment, Marie is alone, Hank is dead, Walt Jr has no father and probably no mother soon, Holly will be essentially parentless, Jesse has no money no resources and no legitimate marketable skills, Gretchen and Elliot may or may not give the money to Walt Jr, and worst of all Saul is probably managing a Cinnabun, Sure, Walt gets to destroy his blue and kill some enemies but this is hardly a rosy ending for anyone. Everyone's lives that Walt touched are damaged or destroyed.
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Walt gave Skyler the location of Hank's body as a bargaining chip with the DEA, so she will probably avoid prison.

And Gretchen and Elliot will DEFINITELY give Flynn the money.

 
Homer J Simpson said:
dparker713 said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Leeroy Jenkins said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Leeroy Jenkins said:
Seriously. Even mere talk or longing for it to have been a dream is a disservice to the show and insult to its creators.
Click to expand...
It's the opposite of this. When people write "serious" literature or produce a "serious" film, they expect it to be discussed, picked apart, and analyzed in ways that might never have occurred to them at the time of production. The fact that people approach a television show in that way is the greatest compliment anybody can bestow on the writers and directors.

People who uncritically take everything at face value and rationalize every little inconsistency or implausibility are the ones who are insulting the creators. That sort of attitude is fine for mindless stuff like TWD, but it's not appropriate for this kind of program. Gilligan and his colleagues deserve to be held to a higher standard than that.

Edit: To clarify, there's nothing wrong with just watching the show and enjoying the story and leaving it at that. Shakespeare can be enjoyed that way too. But nobody ever says that it's we're insulting the Bard when we point out that Romeo and Juliet isn't up the standards of King Lear or Othello, or when we talk about multiple ways to explain Hamlet's character.
Click to expand...
Discussing, analyzing and picking apart I thoroughly enjoy. Saying you think it was a dream or wishing that it was a dream because it would make the finale more satisfying to you is not same thing.
Click to expand...
Of course it is. That's what we mean by "analyzing and picking apart."

Again, for the record, Gilligan clearly did not intend the finale as a dream sequence. The thing with Jesse absolutely nips this in the bud. Moreover, there's no serious precedent for dream sequences anywhere in the franchise. The closest thing I can think of is when Jesse hallucinates and sees the two Jehovah's Witnesses as biker enforcers, but that's not really the same thing and it occurs all the way back in season one. A dream-sequence finale would be wildly out of place for franchise that plays things straight in every other episode.

The only things this interpretation has going for it, that I can tell, is that it provides a bleaker ending, and it resolves all of the events in the finale that pushed a lot of people past the point of suspension of disbelief. It's not the "right" interpretation IMO and I don't think it's even a viable interpretation, but it's a fun idea to bat around.
Click to expand...
Walt dies alone, Skylar is still under indictment, Marie is alone, Hank is dead, Walt Jr has no father and probably no mother soon, Holly will be essentially parentless, Jesse has no money no resources and no legitimate marketable skills, Gretchen and Elliot may or may not give the money to Walt Jr, and worst of all Saul is probably managing a Cinnabun, Sure, Walt gets to destroy his blue and kill some enemies but this is hardly a rosy ending for anyone. Everyone's lives that Walt touched are damaged or destroyed.
Click to expand...
Walt gave Skyler the location of Hank's body as a bargaining chip with the DEA, so she will probably avoid prison.

And Gretchen and Elliot will DEFINITELY give Flynn the money.
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With Walt dead and all the press his case has gotten, the ASUA is going to want a win. Letting her walk for the location of people they pretty much know are dead is not a win. And I'm not sold that Gretchen and Elliot will give Walt Jr the money.

 
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dparker713 said:
Homer J Simpson said:
dparker713 said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Leeroy Jenkins said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Leeroy Jenkins said:
Seriously. Even mere talk or longing for it to have been a dream is a disservice to the show and insult to its creators.
Click to expand...
It's the opposite of this. When people write "serious" literature or produce a "serious" film, they expect it to be discussed, picked apart, and analyzed in ways that might never have occurred to them at the time of production. The fact that people approach a television show in that way is the greatest compliment anybody can bestow on the writers and directors.

People who uncritically take everything at face value and rationalize every little inconsistency or implausibility are the ones who are insulting the creators. That sort of attitude is fine for mindless stuff like TWD, but it's not appropriate for this kind of program. Gilligan and his colleagues deserve to be held to a higher standard than that.

Edit: To clarify, there's nothing wrong with just watching the show and enjoying the story and leaving it at that. Shakespeare can be enjoyed that way too. But nobody ever says that it's we're insulting the Bard when we point out that Romeo and Juliet isn't up the standards of King Lear or Othello, or when we talk about multiple ways to explain Hamlet's character.
Click to expand...
Discussing, analyzing and picking apart I thoroughly enjoy. Saying you think it was a dream or wishing that it was a dream because it would make the finale more satisfying to you is not same thing.
Click to expand...
Of course it is. That's what we mean by "analyzing and picking apart."

Again, for the record, Gilligan clearly did not intend the finale as a dream sequence. The thing with Jesse absolutely nips this in the bud. Moreover, there's no serious precedent for dream sequences anywhere in the franchise. The closest thing I can think of is when Jesse hallucinates and sees the two Jehovah's Witnesses as biker enforcers, but that's not really the same thing and it occurs all the way back in season one. A dream-sequence finale would be wildly out of place for franchise that plays things straight in every other episode.

The only things this interpretation has going for it, that I can tell, is that it provides a bleaker ending, and it resolves all of the events in the finale that pushed a lot of people past the point of suspension of disbelief. It's not the "right" interpretation IMO and I don't think it's even a viable interpretation, but it's a fun idea to bat around.
Click to expand...
Walt dies alone, Skylar is still under indictment, Marie is alone, Hank is dead, Walt Jr has no father and probably no mother soon, Holly will be essentially parentless, Jesse has no money no resources and no legitimate marketable skills, Gretchen and Elliot may or may not give the money to Walt Jr, and worst of all Saul is probably managing a Cinnabun, Sure, Walt gets to destroy his blue and kill some enemies but this is hardly a rosy ending for anyone. Everyone's lives that Walt touched are damaged or destroyed.
Click to expand...
Walt gave Skyler the location of Hank's body as a bargaining chip with the DEA, so she will probably avoid prison.

And Gretchen and Elliot will DEFINITELY give Flynn the money.
Click to expand...
With Walt dead and all the press his case has gotten, the ASUA is going to want a win. Letting her walk for the location of people they pretty much know are dead is not a win. And I'm not sold that Gretchen and Elliot will give Walt Jr the money.
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I'm pretty confident Gretchen and Elliot will forward the money, they would be risking their lives for meaningless money if they didn't.

For Skyler, it depends on how strong a case the government feels it has against her - and at this point they know Walt was the mastermind. Either way, the location of the bodies is a huge bargaining chip.

 
dparker713 said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Leeroy Jenkins said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Leeroy Jenkins said:
Seriously. Even mere talk or longing for it to have been a dream is a disservice to the show and insult to its creators.
Click to expand...
It's the opposite of this. When people write "serious" literature or produce a "serious" film, they expect it to be discussed, picked apart, and analyzed in ways that might never have occurred to them at the time of production. The fact that people approach a television show in that way is the greatest compliment anybody can bestow on the writers and directors.

People who uncritically take everything at face value and rationalize every little inconsistency or implausibility are the ones who are insulting the creators. That sort of attitude is fine for mindless stuff like TWD, but it's not appropriate for this kind of program. Gilligan and his colleagues deserve to be held to a higher standard than that.

Edit: To clarify, there's nothing wrong with just watching the show and enjoying the story and leaving it at that. Shakespeare can be enjoyed that way too. But nobody ever says that it's we're insulting the Bard when we point out that Romeo and Juliet isn't up the standards of King Lear or Othello, or when we talk about multiple ways to explain Hamlet's character.
Click to expand...
Discussing, analyzing and picking apart I thoroughly enjoy. Saying you think it was a dream or wishing that it was a dream because it would make the finale more satisfying to you is not same thing.
Click to expand...
Of course it is. That's what we mean by "analyzing and picking apart."

Again, for the record, Gilligan clearly did not intend the finale as a dream sequence. The thing with Jesse absolutely nips this in the bud. Moreover, there's no serious precedent for dream sequences anywhere in the franchise. The closest thing I can think of is when Jesse hallucinates and sees the two Jehovah's Witnesses as biker enforcers, but that's not really the same thing and it occurs all the way back in season one. A dream-sequence finale would be wildly out of place for franchise that plays things straight in every other episode.

The only things this interpretation has going for it, that I can tell, is that it provides a bleaker ending, and it resolves all of the events in the finale that pushed a lot of people past the point of suspension of disbelief. It's not the "right" interpretation IMO and I don't think it's even a viable interpretation, but it's a fun idea to bat around.
Click to expand...
Walt dies alone, Skylar is still under indictment, Marie is alone, Hank is dead, Walt Jr has no father and probably no mother soon, Holly will be essentially parentless, Jesse has no money no resources and no legitimate marketable skills, Gretchen and Elliot may or may not give the money to Walt Jr, and worst of all Saul is probably managing a Cinnabun, Sure, Walt gets to destroy his blue and kill some enemies but this is hardly a rosy ending for anyone. Everyone's lives that Walt touched are damaged or destroyed.
Click to expand...
This is a good summary and a good point about Walt's ultimate toxicity. Holly, like Flynn, will lead a very difficult life due to Walt being their father, but lots of people have to deal with being innocent but having bad/notorious parents. I believe it's very likely Gretchen and Elliot do bequeath the money to Flynn, but I wonder if he'll accept it - it really depends on how good a job G&E do at selling it as their donation rather than nebulous explanations which would make Flynn suspicious that it may have come from Walt.

The one bit of a balance to all the hurt Walt brought to good people is that he ultimately also took out a lot of really bad people. It's hardly an even trade, but it does provide a bit of symmetry.

 
dparker713 said:
With Walt dead and all the press his case has gotten, the ASUA is going to want a win. Letting her walk for the location of people they pretty much know are dead is not a win. And I'm not sold that Gretchen and Elliot will give Walt Jr the money.
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IRL, Skyler's "lottery ticket" would shave a few years off her sentence, but she's still going to prison for a while. And I'm with you that Elliot was on the phone to the police five seconds after Walt left his property. But I don't think that's how Gilligan meant us to interpret these sequences. In Gilligan's telling, Walt improbably gets $9 million to Flynn and Skyler goes free. Those plot points are both more than a little sketchy.

Then you throw in the fact that Walt sits around in a coffee shop in the middle of the day as the most wanted man in America without being reported. And he skates in and out of Skyler's place, and spies on Flynn despite police surveillance. And his machine gun magically kills all of the Nazis except for Jack, who Walt gets to kill personally, and Todd, who Jesse gets to kill personally.

The whole finale comes across as an impossible confluence of wish fulfillment, which I think is why people are grasping at the "dream" interpretation. Personally, I'm fine with Gilligan cutting some corners to wrap up loose ends -- that's clearly what he wanted to do, and it's kind of hard to avoid a few stretches here and there if you want to wrap up a 5+ season show without letting anything hang. There is no way that he intended for the finale to be viewed as a fantasy, but it is a little too neat and gives Walt too much of a happy ending.

 
Das Boot said:
This is a good summary and a good point about Walt's ultimate toxicity. Holly, like Flynn, will lead a very difficult life due to Walt being their father, but lots of people have to deal with being innocent but having bad/notorious parents. I believe it's very likely Gretchen and Elliot do bequeath the money to Flynn, but I wonder if he'll accept it - it really depends on how good a job G&E do at selling it as their donation rather than nebulous explanations which would make Flynn suspicious that it may have come from Walt.

The one bit of a balance to all the hurt Walt brought to good people is that he ultimately also took out a lot of really bad people. It's hardly an even trade, but it does provide a bit of symmetry.
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If Flynn cares at all about his sister he'll take the money. She shouldn't suffer just because Flynn hates his dad.

 
Jesse has no money no resources and no legitimate marketable skills
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Jesse has a ton of on the job experience running a chemistry lab. It wouldn't be that hard for him to take some community college chemistry classes and then transfer to a university to get a B.A. in chemistry.

 
cstu said:
Das Boot said:
This is a good summary and a good point about Walt's ultimate toxicity. Holly, like Flynn, will lead a very difficult life due to Walt being their father, but lots of people have to deal with being innocent but having bad/notorious parents. I believe it's very likely Gretchen and Elliot do bequeath the money to Flynn, but I wonder if he'll accept it - it really depends on how good a job G&E do at selling it as their donation rather than nebulous explanations which would make Flynn suspicious that it may have come from Walt.

The one bit of a balance to all the hurt Walt brought to good people is that he ultimately also took out a lot of really bad people. It's hardly an even trade, but it does provide a bit of symmetry.
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If Flynn cares at all about his sister he'll take the money. She shouldn't suffer just because Flynn hates his dad.
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And besides, Flynn isn't going to know where the money is coming from. He's going to think that it's Gretchen and Elliot just being charitable. He won't know that it's really from his dad. And yes, Flynn is that naïve.

 
cstu said:
Jesse has no money no resources and no legitimate marketable skills
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Jesse has a ton of on the job experience running a chemistry lab. It wouldn't be that hard for him to take some community college chemistry classes and then transfer to a university to get a B.A. in chemistry.
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He has no money. He has no contacts to create a new identity or really do anything. He can't use his own identity.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Then you throw in the fact that Walt sits around in a coffee shop in the middle of the day as the most wanted man in America without being reported. And he skates in and out of Skyler's place, and spies on Flynn despite police surveillance. And his machine gun magically kills all of the Nazis except for Jack, who Walt gets to kill personally, and Todd, who Jesse gets to kill personally.
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He was last seen bald with a goatee. He now looks like a homeless guy. Considering how often people ignore the homeless I have no problem with people in general not recognizing him. And with the cops spread thin, its hardly odd that they'd only have 1 car on Skylar, which wouldn't be that hard to avoid. And the machine gun not killing Todd and only fatally wounding Jack is just for story sake. Easy enough to overlook.

And as Jesse said earlier in the season, Walt is smarter AND luckier than you. He's been that way the entire series. Don't see why that would stop now.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
. And I'm with you that Elliot was on the phone to the police five seconds after Walt left his property.
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I can't even begin to put the words together to describe how absolutely ludicrous I think this position is.

Why would they do that?

 
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dparker713 said:
.With Walt dead and all the press his case has gotten, the ASUA is going to want a win. Letting her walk for the location of people they pretty much know are dead is not a win. And I'm not sold that Gretchen and Elliot will give Walt Jr the money.
Click to expand...
Walt dead and a bunch of dead nazi criminals is a pretty decent win

 
dparker713 said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Then you throw in the fact that Walt sits around in a coffee shop in the middle of the day as the most wanted man in America without being reported. And he skates in and out of Skyler's place, and spies on Flynn despite police surveillance. And his machine gun magically kills all of the Nazis except for Jack, who Walt gets to kill personally, and Todd, who Jesse gets to kill personally.
Click to expand...
He was last seen bald with a goatee. He now looks like a homeless guy. Considering how often people ignore the homeless I have no problem with people in general not recognizing him. And with the cops spread thin, its hardly odd that they'd only have 1 car on Skylar, which wouldn't be that hard to avoid. And the machine gun not killing Todd and only fatally wounding Jack is just for story sake. Easy enough to overlook.

And as Jesse said earlier in the season, Walt is smarter AND luckier than you. He's been that way the entire series. Don't see why that would stop now.
Click to expand...
not to mention that he called in some bomb threats to stretch the cops thinner

 
Rove! said:
dparker713 said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Then you throw in the fact that Walt sits around in a coffee shop in the middle of the day as the most wanted man in America without being reported. And he skates in and out of Skyler's place, and spies on Flynn despite police surveillance. And his machine gun magically kills all of the Nazis except for Jack, who Walt gets to kill personally, and Todd, who Jesse gets to kill personally.
Click to expand...
He was last seen bald with a goatee. He now looks like a homeless guy. Considering how often people ignore the homeless I have no problem with people in general not recognizing him. And with the cops spread thin, its hardly odd that they'd only have 1 car on Skylar, which wouldn't be that hard to avoid. And the machine gun not killing Todd and only fatally wounding Jack is just for story sake. Easy enough to overlook.

And as Jesse said earlier in the season, Walt is smarter AND luckier than you. He's been that way the entire series. Don't see why that would stop now.
Click to expand...
not to mention that he called in some bomb threats to stretch the cops thinner
Click to expand...
Yeah, that part is kind of improbable too. Good catch.

 
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IvanKaramazov said:
Rove! said:
IvanKaramazov said:
. And I'm with you that Elliot was on the phone to the police five seconds after Walt left his property.
Click to expand...
I can't even begin to put the words together to describe how absolutely ludicrous I think this position is.

Why would they do that?
Click to expand...
Explained ad nauseam. I get it. Your suspension of disbelief is vastly stronger than mine. Good for you. Glad you enjoyed that plot point.
Click to expand...
Their motovatoion for going to the police has not been explained IIRC.

What motive would they have for going to the police?

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Rove! said:
dparker713 said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Then you throw in the fact that Walt sits around in a coffee shop in the middle of the day as the most wanted man in America without being reported. And he skates in and out of Skyler's place, and spies on Flynn despite police surveillance. And his machine gun magically kills all of the Nazis except for Jack, who Walt gets to kill personally, and Todd, who Jesse gets to kill personally.
Click to expand...
He was last seen bald with a goatee. He now looks like a homeless guy. Considering how often people ignore the homeless I have no problem with people in general not recognizing him. And with the cops spread thin, its hardly odd that they'd only have 1 car on Skylar, which wouldn't be that hard to avoid. And the machine gun not killing Todd and only fatally wounding Jack is just for story sake. Easy enough to overlook.

And as Jesse said earlier in the season, Walt is smarter AND luckier than you. He's been that way the entire series. Don't see why that would stop now.
Click to expand...
not to mention that he called in some bomb threats to stretch the cops thinner
Click to expand...
Yeah, that part is kind of improbable too. Good catch.
Click to expand...
why is it improbable for him to call in bomb threats? Any doofus can hit a few pay phones and make a couple of 20 second or less calls,,,

 
People keep saying that Jesse being a slave to the Nazis means it's impossible for the finale to have been a dream. All it really proves is that the dream could've started earlier, probably around the time Hank died and Walt was on the ground in shock. Do we really think Uncle Jack decided to give Walt $10M and not just shoot him dead there?

 
SacramentoBob said:
People keep saying that Jesse being a slave to the Nazis means it's impossible for the finale to have been a dream. All it really proves is that the dream could've started earlier, probably around the time Hank died and Walt was on the ground in shock. Do we really think Uncle Jack decided to give Walt $10M and not just shoot him dead there?
Click to expand...
I don't think Walt had a pair of ruby slippers.

 
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Rove! said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Rove! said:
dparker713 said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Then you throw in the fact that Walt sits around in a coffee shop in the middle of the day as the most wanted man in America without being reported. And he skates in and out of Skyler's place, and spies on Flynn despite police surveillance. And his machine gun magically kills all of the Nazis except for Jack, who Walt gets to kill personally, and Todd, who Jesse gets to kill personally.
Click to expand...
He was last seen bald with a goatee. He now looks like a homeless guy. Considering how often people ignore the homeless I have no problem with people in general not recognizing him. And with the cops spread thin, its hardly odd that they'd only have 1 car on Skylar, which wouldn't be that hard to avoid. And the machine gun not killing Todd and only fatally wounding Jack is just for story sake. Easy enough to overlook.

And as Jesse said earlier in the season, Walt is smarter AND luckier than you. He's been that way the entire series. Don't see why that would stop now.
Click to expand...
not to mention that he called in some bomb threats to stretch the cops thinner
Click to expand...
Yeah, that part is kind of improbable too. Good catch.
Click to expand...
why is it improbable for him to call in bomb threats? Any doofus can hit a few pay phones and make a couple of 20 second or less calls,,,
Click to expand...
Calling in bomb threats is very plausible. Having the police fall for it and call their surveillance off Skyler isn't so plausible. I mean, come on.

You seem to be taking some kind of personal offense to my issues with the finale. There's no reason for that. I've mentioned before that I think that this is the single best television show I've ever seen. Now granted, I don't watch a lot of tv, but the only shows I put in the same category are The Sopranos and The Wire, and Breaking Bad is better than either overall. I'm not just busting on your favorite program. I'm saying as one fan to another that the finale has a few too many just-so moments that seem designed to produce something resembling a "happy ending" for Walt, that I don't think he deserves. I agree with you completely that that's the ending that Gilligan meant to write. I just disagree with that particular turn is warranted.

 
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IvanKaramazov said:
Rove! said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Rove! said:
dparker713 said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Then you throw in the fact that Walt sits around in a coffee shop in the middle of the day as the most wanted man in America without being reported. And he skates in and out of Skyler's place, and spies on Flynn despite police surveillance. And his machine gun magically kills all of the Nazis except for Jack, who Walt gets to kill personally, and Todd, who Jesse gets to kill personally.
Click to expand...
He was last seen bald with a goatee. He now looks like a homeless guy. Considering how often people ignore the homeless I have no problem with people in general not recognizing him. And with the cops spread thin, its hardly odd that they'd only have 1 car on Skylar, which wouldn't be that hard to avoid. And the machine gun not killing Todd and only fatally wounding Jack is just for story sake. Easy enough to overlook.

And as Jesse said earlier in the season, Walt is smarter AND luckier than you. He's been that way the entire series. Don't see why that would stop now.
Click to expand...
not to mention that he called in some bomb threats to stretch the cops thinner
Click to expand...
Yeah, that part is kind of improbable too. Good catch.
Click to expand...
why is it improbable for him to call in bomb threats? Any doofus can hit a few pay phones and make a couple of 20 second or less calls,,,
Click to expand...
Calling in bomb threats is very plausible. Having the police fall for it and call their surveillance off Skyler isn't so plausible. I mean, come on.

You seem to be taking some kind of personal offense to my issues with the finale. There's no reason for that. I've mentioned before that I think that this is the single best television show I've ever seen. Now granted, I don't watch a lot of tv, but the only shows I put in the same category are The Sopranos and The Wire, and Breaking Bad is better than either overall. I'm not just busting on your favorite program. I'm saying as one fan to another that the finale has a few too many just-so moments that seem designed to produce something resembling a "happy ending" for Walt, that I don't think he deserves. I agree with you completely that that's the ending that Gilligan meant to write. I just disagree with that particular turn is warranted.
Click to expand...
they still had a couple of guys there wathing Skyler, and I think they were in "let's stop this monster from blowing up some kids" mode and not "let's see if we can spot him sneaking in to see Skyler." We see this thinking all the time from management and NFL coaches and making the call least likely to get them villified in the press. Can you imagine the press if he had blown up a school while they were over-focused on protecting an accessory to his crimes? No, better to make the safe call. Sure WE know that WW would never blow up school kids, but the cops don't know that. He's already blown up a nursing home and killed his brother-in-law amongst other things.

There are nits to pick, but the G&E thing is not the one I would choose

 
SacramentoBob said:
People keep saying that Jesse being a slave to the Nazis means it's impossible for the finale to have been a dream. All it really proves is that the dream could've started earlier, probably around the time Hank died and Walt was on the ground in shock. Do we really think Uncle Jack decided to give Walt $10M and not just shoot him dead there?
Click to expand...
Walt put a gun to his head and pulled the trigger in the pilot. Maybe everything since was a dream.

 
Sarnoff said:
SacramentoBob said:
People keep saying that Jesse being a slave to the Nazis means it's impossible for the finale to have been a dream. All it really proves is that the dream could've started earlier, probably around the time Hank died and Walt was on the ground in shock. Do we really think Uncle Jack decided to give Walt $10M and not just shoot him dead there?
Click to expand...
Walt put a gun to his head and pulled the trigger in the pilot. Maybe everything since was a dream.
Click to expand...
Or he dreams it as he's about to pull the trigger, and having dreamed it, decides to shoot himself...

 
Homer J Simpson said:
dparker713 said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Leeroy Jenkins said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Leeroy Jenkins said:
Seriously. Even mere talk or longing for it to have been a dream is a disservice to the show and insult to its creators.
Click to expand...
It's the opposite of this. When people write "serious" literature or produce a "serious" film, they expect it to be discussed, picked apart, and analyzed in ways that might never have occurred to them at the time of production. The fact that people approach a television show in that way is the greatest compliment anybody can bestow on the writers and directors.

People who uncritically take everything at face value and rationalize every little inconsistency or implausibility are the ones who are insulting the creators. That sort of attitude is fine for mindless stuff like TWD, but it's not appropriate for this kind of program. Gilligan and his colleagues deserve to be held to a higher standard than that.

Edit: To clarify, there's nothing wrong with just watching the show and enjoying the story and leaving it at that. Shakespeare can be enjoyed that way too. But nobody ever says that it's we're insulting the Bard when we point out that Romeo and Juliet isn't up the standards of King Lear or Othello, or when we talk about multiple ways to explain Hamlet's character.
Click to expand...
Discussing, analyzing and picking apart I thoroughly enjoy. Saying you think it was a dream or wishing that it was a dream because it would make the finale more satisfying to you is not same thing.
Click to expand...
Of course it is. That's what we mean by "analyzing and picking apart."

Again, for the record, Gilligan clearly did not intend the finale as a dream sequence. The thing with Jesse absolutely nips this in the bud. Moreover, there's no serious precedent for dream sequences anywhere in the franchise. The closest thing I can think of is when Jesse hallucinates and sees the two Jehovah's Witnesses as biker enforcers, but that's not really the same thing and it occurs all the way back in season one. A dream-sequence finale would be wildly out of place for franchise that plays things straight in every other episode.

The only things this interpretation has going for it, that I can tell, is that it provides a bleaker ending, and it resolves all of the events in the finale that pushed a lot of people past the point of suspension of disbelief. It's not the "right" interpretation IMO and I don't think it's even a viable interpretation, but it's a fun idea to bat around.
Click to expand...
Walt dies alone, Skylar is still under indictment, Marie is alone, Hank is dead, Walt Jr has no father and probably no mother soon, Holly will be essentially parentless, Jesse has no money no resources and no legitimate marketable skills, Gretchen and Elliot may or may not give the money to Walt Jr, and worst of all Saul is probably managing a Cinnabun, Sure, Walt gets to destroy his blue and kill some enemies but this is hardly a rosy ending for anyone. Everyone's lives that Walt touched are damaged or destroyed.
Click to expand...
Walt gave Skyler the location of Hank's body as a bargaining chip with the DEA, so she will probably avoid prison. And Gretchen and Elliot will DEFINITELY give Flynn the money.
Click to expand...
I don't get the reasoning behind Skyler avoiding prison by knowing where Hank is buried. First off, if she knows where he is, then her family duty sense will probably make her want to give Marie that closure. Second, Hank and Homie are dead because of a criminal empire that she was an active participant in. A portion of his death falls on he shoulders. Third, they don't have Walt or the Nazis to pin anything on. They're gonna want someone to go down. I just don't see it being a get out of jail free card.

 
mad sweeney said:
Homer J Simpson said:
dparker713 said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Leeroy Jenkins said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Leeroy Jenkins said:
Seriously. Even mere talk or longing for it to have been a dream is a disservice to the show and insult to its creators.
Click to expand...
It's the opposite of this. When people write "serious" literature or produce a "serious" film, they expect it to be discussed, picked apart, and analyzed in ways that might never have occurred to them at the time of production. The fact that people approach a television show in that way is the greatest compliment anybody can bestow on the writers and directors.

People who uncritically take everything at face value and rationalize every little inconsistency or implausibility are the ones who are insulting the creators. That sort of attitude is fine for mindless stuff like TWD, but it's not appropriate for this kind of program. Gilligan and his colleagues deserve to be held to a higher standard than that.

Edit: To clarify, there's nothing wrong with just watching the show and enjoying the story and leaving it at that. Shakespeare can be enjoyed that way too. But nobody ever says that it's we're insulting the Bard when we point out that Romeo and Juliet isn't up the standards of King Lear or Othello, or when we talk about multiple ways to explain Hamlet's character.
Click to expand...
Discussing, analyzing and picking apart I thoroughly enjoy. Saying you think it was a dream or wishing that it was a dream because it would make the finale more satisfying to you is not same thing.
Click to expand...
Of course it is. That's what we mean by "analyzing and picking apart."

Again, for the record, Gilligan clearly did not intend the finale as a dream sequence. The thing with Jesse absolutely nips this in the bud. Moreover, there's no serious precedent for dream sequences anywhere in the franchise. The closest thing I can think of is when Jesse hallucinates and sees the two Jehovah's Witnesses as biker enforcers, but that's not really the same thing and it occurs all the way back in season one. A dream-sequence finale would be wildly out of place for franchise that plays things straight in every other episode.

The only things this interpretation has going for it, that I can tell, is that it provides a bleaker ending, and it resolves all of the events in the finale that pushed a lot of people past the point of suspension of disbelief. It's not the "right" interpretation IMO and I don't think it's even a viable interpretation, but it's a fun idea to bat around.
Click to expand...
Walt dies alone, Skylar is still under indictment, Marie is alone, Hank is dead, Walt Jr has no father and probably no mother soon, Holly will be essentially parentless, Jesse has no money no resources and no legitimate marketable skills, Gretchen and Elliot may or may not give the money to Walt Jr, and worst of all Saul is probably managing a Cinnabun, Sure, Walt gets to destroy his blue and kill some enemies but this is hardly a rosy ending for anyone. Everyone's lives that Walt touched are damaged or destroyed.
Click to expand...
Walt gave Skyler the location of Hank's body as a bargaining chip with the DEA, so she will probably avoid prison.And Gretchen and Elliot will DEFINITELY give Flynn the money.
Click to expand...
I don't get the reasoning behind Skyler avoiding prison by knowing where Hank is buried. First off, if she knows where he is, then her family duty sense will probably make her want to give Marie that closure. Second, Hank and Homie are dead because of a criminal empire that she was an active participant in. A portion of his death falls on he shoulders. Third, they don't have Walt or the Nazis to pin anything on. They're gonna want someone to go down.I just don't see it being a get out of jail free card.
Click to expand...
What evidence do they have against Skylar?

 
Well she ran the carwash. I'd think they'd look at her very carefully. They may also go talk to Ted again. Why would he fear her now that Walt and the empire is dead? I agree that Skyler is and should still be in quite a bit of peril. She ordered a hit on Jesse, she shouldn't walk away.

 
Sarnoff said:
SacramentoBob said:
People keep saying that Jesse being a slave to the Nazis means it's impossible for the finale to have been a dream. All it really proves is that the dream could've started earlier, probably around the time Hank died and Walt was on the ground in shock. Do we really think Uncle Jack decided to give Walt $10M and not just shoot him dead there?
Click to expand...
Walt put a gun to his head and pulled the trigger in the pilot. Maybe everything since was a dream.
Click to expand...
:headexplode:

 
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