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**Official YANKEES 2009 Thread** (1 Viewer)

shadyridr

Footballguy
Here's a little breakdown of the Yankees and what issues they have going into camp.

Starting Pitchers:

Probably among the best rotations in the game. Im very excited about watching all these guys pitch. If one of CC, Burnett, Wang, Pettitte, or Joba get hurt Hughes and/or Aceves should be solid enough depth. A+

Bullpen:

Im loving this bullpen! Bruney, Veras, Marte, Coke, Ramirez should form a very solid bridge to Rivera. Keep an eye on Mark Melancon who many are saying could be this year's Joba. I expect him to start in AAA but be up by midseason. A-

Catcher:

Posada's shoulder is a HUGE concern and Molina breaks down if he plays too many games. B-

Infield:

Jeter is a statue at SS, ARod's defense is solid but not spectacular, and Cano has too many mental lapses although he does have the potential to be a gold glover. Tex should be a great help to all the infielders but its not saying much when your 1B is your best fielder. Hitting wise these guys are all studs (except Cano who at best is decent). A-

Outfield:

Damon had one of his best years hitting last year and is a solid leftfielder with a terrible arm. The CF battle is disgusting. The "winner" of the Gardner/Cabrera battle will probably be the worst hitting OFer in the AL. They are both solid defensively. Nady and Swisher are going to battle for the RF job with the backup probably getting a bunch of playing time as a supersub. Id prefer Swisher. Matsui wont play the OF this year but if he stays healthy (a HUGE if) hes a lock for 100RBI in the 5th spot. C

Bench:

The loser of the Nady/Swisher battle, the loser of the Cabrera/Gardner battle, Ransom. Once again Cashman does a HORRIBLE job building the bench. D

Issues heading into spring training:

1. Posada's return from shoulder surgery. IF Posada can play 110-120 games behind the plate and hit .280-20-85 then the Yanks lineup suddenly becomes less top heavy.

2. Rivera's return from minor shoulder surgery. Everyone says there isnt much to worry about but still color me concerned.

3. A-Roid. Will the distractions get to him?

4. Matsui's knee. Im not too concerned about this because even if hes not healthy then Nady and or Swisher should be a fine DH but it would kill the depth.

Prediction:

I think the Yankees filled a ton of holes especially in the pitching area. I think if their rotation and bullpen stays healthy then there is no way they miss the playoffs. They have a lot of holes in their lineup and defense but I think the pitching will get them over the hump.

95-67, 2nd place behind TB- WC winners. Lose in ALCS playoffs to CLE

 
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Here's a little breakdown of the Yankees and what issues they have going into camp.

Starting Pitchers:

Also have high hopes for the rotation. I'm coming around on Burnett a bit, though he's still dicey as hell. Still the return of a healthy Wang/Joba and the addition of CC is much more significant than some people want to admit. B+

Bullpen:

Bullpen depth is going to be key. I like Bruney, Veras, & Coke. Hopefully Marte straightends himself out and Ramirez's shoulder issue isn't a big deal. The fact that Melancon is waiting in the wings could be key. B+

Catcher:

Posada's shoulder is a HUGE concern and Molina breaks down if he plays too many games. B-

Infield:

Defensively, Teixeira should help a lot of the poor throws. His added range, combined with Cano's, will help a groundball pitcher like Wang. Offensively, all are at or near the top at their positions. A

Outfield:

Damon is still solid, the CF battle looks like it's between two of the weaker hitters in the league but that's compensated by having good hitters elsewhere, and the RF situation should be decent if Girardi plays matchups correctly. B

Bench:

The loser of the Nady/Swisher battle, the loser of the Cabrera/Gardner battle, Ransom. Once again Cashman does a HORRIBLE job building the bench. D

Prediction:

They were an 89 win team with a ton of injuries and some down years (not to mention the awful starting pitching). They looked to improve in all areas from a year ago and that's without accounting for health. I don't think Boston made enough strides and I think Tampa could take a slight step back. That might be all it takes.

99-63, division champs, World Series participants.

 
Here's a little breakdown of the Yankees and what issues they have going into camp.

Starting Pitchers:

Also have high hopes for the rotation. I'm coming around on Burnett a bit, though he's still dicey as hell. Still the return of a healthy Wang/Joba and the addition of CC is much more significant than some people want to admit. B+
This is a much more realistic assessment. It's not anywhere near A+ material. It's a good, solid B+.
Bullpen:

Bullpen depth is going to be key. I like Bruney, Veras, & Coke. Hopefully Marte straightends himself out and Ramirez's shoulder issue isn't a big deal. The fact that Melancon is waiting in the wings could be key. B+
I give it a straight B. Too many question-marks in the middle inning relief roles, and it's way too much to expect Marte to straighten himself out. And, I don't think we can really count on Ramirez for a whole lot. Rivera is the only thing that keeps this group from being at the B- level.
Catcher:

Posada's shoulder is a HUGE concern and Molina breaks down if he plays too many games. B-
Yup.
Infield:

Defensively, Teixeira should help a lot of the poor throws. His added range, combined with Cano's, will help a groundball pitcher like Wang. Offensively, all are at or near the top at their positions. A
This is the key reason why Teixeira made so much sense. We've had cast iron gloves at 1B for so long, and he really solidifies that corner spot. Jeter is not, however, near the top at his position, defensively. Is this still a myth held by my fellow Yankee fans? This is a solid B group, defensively.
Outfield:

Damon is still solid, the CF battle looks like it's between two of the weaker hitters in the league but that's compensated by having good hitters elsewhere, and the RF situation should be decent if Girardi plays matchups correctly. B
Damon solid? At catching routine fly balls, perhaps. This outfield is, defensively, pretty mediocre, at best. I'd say more of a C+.
Bench:

The loser of the Nady/Swisher battle, the loser of the Cabrera/Gardner battle, Ransom. Once again Cashman does a HORRIBLE job building the bench. D
I say it deserves a C grade. A little better, imo. Not much, though.
Prediction:

They were an 89 win team with a ton of injuries and some down years (not to mention the awful starting pitching). They looked to improve in all areas from a year ago and that's without accounting for health. I don't think Boston made enough strides and I think Tampa could take a slight step back. That might be all it takes.

99-63, division champs, World Series participants.
Agreed with most of this. Tampa will take a small step back, but last year was not a fluke, per se. Just scale them back a bit. Boston should be right about where they were last year, with no major movement up or down. Yanks win about 7-10 more games than last year, putting them in/around that 95-100 win range. They may be division champs, but I don't think they have enough to get past the ALCS. Again.
 
Jeter is not, however, near the top at his position, defensively. Is this still a myth held by my fellow Yankee fans? This is a solid B group, defensively.

Damon solid? At catching routine fly balls, perhaps. This outfield is, defensively, pretty mediocre, at best. I'd say more of a C+.
I said the infielders were at or near the top offensively, not defensively. Jeter is and has been putrid for some time, specifically going to his left.I was giving Damon an overall solid grade combining offense and defense. Yes, defensively I agree he is horse####.

 
A bit off topic. Are the Yankees offering single game tickets to the stadium this year? I've checked the site everyday and they don't have info.

 
A bit off topic. Are the Yankees offering single game tickets to the stadium this year? I've checked the site everyday and they don't have info.
Last I heard, they were still sorting out the season ticket plans. A girl I know applied for the upgrade from the 20-game flex plan to the 41 game plan but was turned down because they ran out of tickets. I would assume they have some set aside for day-of-game, but I'm not sure if there will be many/any available before the season begins.Send me a PM if you're interested in buying some games, as I still have a decent number left on my account (full season).
 
Jeter is not, however, near the top at his position, defensively. Is this still a myth held by my fellow Yankee fans? This is a solid B group, defensively.

Damon solid? At catching routine fly balls, perhaps. This outfield is, defensively, pretty mediocre, at best. I'd say more of a C+.
I said the infielders were at or near the top offensively, not defensively. Jeter is and has been putrid for some time, specifically going to his left.I was giving Damon an overall solid grade combining offense and defense. Yes, defensively I agree he is horse####.
Yeah, Damon is about a B when it comes to offense and a D on defense, mostly because he gives up so many extra bases with the awful arm he has out there.My reading comprehension is down, so I missed the part where you were combining O and D...thus, I would agree mostly with your assessment(s) now. I just take issue with another poster on this topic, who seems to think this pitching staff is in a state of awesomeness. They will be better than last year, though.

The offense will take a hit, losing Abreu and, to a lesser degree, Giambi. Tex will cover for the Giambi loss pretty easily, no doubt. But, the net loss when you factor in Abreu's production that we won't have...it'll amount to a negative. If Posada comes back healthy and Cano stops swinging at everything low/outside, this group might break even with last year. If so, I think we'll net about 10 more wins (which is what I think you predicted).

 
A bit off topic. Are the Yankees offering single game tickets to the stadium this year? I've checked the site everyday and they don't have info.
Last I heard, they were still sorting out the season ticket plans. A girl I know applied for the upgrade from the 20-game flex plan to the 41 game plan but was turned down because they ran out of tickets. I would assume they have some set aside for day-of-game, but I'm not sure if there will be many/any available before the season begins.Send me a PM if you're interested in buying some games, as I still have a decent number left on my account (full season).
Thank you. I will keep that in mind.
 
Jeter is not, however, near the top at his position, defensively. Is this still a myth held by my fellow Yankee fans? This is a solid B group, defensively.

Damon solid? At catching routine fly balls, perhaps. This outfield is, defensively, pretty mediocre, at best. I'd say more of a C+.
I said the infielders were at or near the top offensively, not defensively. Jeter is and has been putrid for some time, specifically going to his left.I was giving Damon an overall solid grade combining offense and defense. Yes, defensively I agree he is horse####.
Yeah, Damon is about a B when it comes to offense and a D on defense, mostly because he gives up so many extra bases with the awful arm he has out there.My reading comprehension is down, so I missed the part where you were combining O and D...thus, I would agree mostly with your assessment(s) now. I just take issue with another poster on this topic, who seems to think this pitching staff is in a state of awesomeness. They will be better than last year, though.

The offense will take a hit, losing Abreu and, to a lesser degree, Giambi. Tex will cover for the Giambi loss pretty easily, no doubt. But, the net loss when you factor in Abreu's production that we won't have...it'll amount to a negative. If Posada comes back healthy and Cano stops swinging at everything low/outside, this group might break even with last year. If so, I think we'll net about 10 more wins (which is what I think you predicted).
If they stay healthy all year they are the best pitching staff 1 to 5 in baseball. How many other teams have a #5 as good as Joba? The only teams with equal rotations than them just so happen to play in their division (Boston & TB). I dont know why you are getting so combative. You're predictions are pretty close to mine except for the starting pitching staff.
 
Jeter is not, however, near the top at his position, defensively. Is this still a myth held by my fellow Yankee fans? This is a solid B group, defensively.

Damon solid? At catching routine fly balls, perhaps. This outfield is, defensively, pretty mediocre, at best. I'd say more of a C+.
I said the infielders were at or near the top offensively, not defensively. Jeter is and has been putrid for some time, specifically going to his left.I was giving Damon an overall solid grade combining offense and defense. Yes, defensively I agree he is horse####.
Yeah, Damon is about a B when it comes to offense and a D on defense, mostly because he gives up so many extra bases with the awful arm he has out there.My reading comprehension is down, so I missed the part where you were combining O and D...thus, I would agree mostly with your assessment(s) now. I just take issue with another poster on this topic, who seems to think this pitching staff is in a state of awesomeness. They will be better than last year, though.

The offense will take a hit, losing Abreu and, to a lesser degree, Giambi. Tex will cover for the Giambi loss pretty easily, no doubt. But, the net loss when you factor in Abreu's production that we won't have...it'll amount to a negative. If Posada comes back healthy and Cano stops swinging at everything low/outside, this group might break even with last year. If so, I think we'll net about 10 more wins (which is what I think you predicted).
If they stay healthy all year they are the best pitching staff 1 to 5 in baseball. How many other teams have a #5 as good as Joba? The only teams with equal rotations than them just so happen to play in their division (Boston & TB). I dont know why you are getting so combative. You're predictions are pretty close to mine except for the starting pitching staff.
Taking issue <> combative
 
Managed to snag 4 obstructed view bleacher seats for the Sunday Phils/Yanks game. I'm happy with that. They are allowing the bleacher creatures access to the entire stadium so I probably won't be in the seat much. For 5.00 a tix....I could do a lot worse.

 
havent been keeping tabs in here, due to me being a cubs fan....but

what is the word/rumors about when arod will be back to game action?

 
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Oh Yes! said:
havent been keeping tabs in here, due to me being a cubs fan....butwhat is the word/rumors about when arod will be back to game action?
Supposed to be sometime in May, really depends on how the rehab goes.
 
Darth Cheney said:
Managed to snag 4 obstructed view bleacher seats for the Sunday Phils/Yanks game. I'm happy with that. They are allowing the bleacher creatures access to the entire stadium so I probably won't be in the seat much. For 5.00 a tix....I could do a lot worse.
:)
 
Girardi is toying with the idea of Jeter batting leadoff and Damon 2nd this year. I gotta say I love this idea. Jeter has a better OBP and Damon grounds into far less DPs.

 
Just curious as to how the Yankees starters compare to Beckett/Dice-K/Lester/Penny/Smoltz/Wakefield/Bucholtz, especially if people are assuming good health for everyone . . .

Similarly, the Sox could have whoever was not starting plus Hansack, Lopez, Delcarmen, Saito, Ramirez, Masterson, Okajima, and Papelbon in the pen.

Bottom line, I'm not seeing the Yankees staff as having an advantage over Boston's.

 
Just curious as to how the Yankees starters compare to Beckett/Dice-K/Lester/Penny/Smoltz/Wakefield/Bucholtz, especially if people are assuming good health for everyone . . .Similarly, the Sox could have whoever was not starting plus Hansack, Lopez, Delcarmen, Saito, Ramirez, Masterson, Okajima, and Papelbon in the pen.Bottom line, I'm not seeing the Yankees staff as having an advantage over Boston's.
CC > BeckettDiceK > BurnettLester > WangPettitte & Joba >>>>>> Smoltz/Penny/WakefieldYanks starting staff is deeper. Sox 1-3 are a bit better.Closers are equal. Okajima, Delcarmen, Masterson are all pretty good but so are Coke, Bruney, Veras, and Ramirez. Both teams have good, young bullpens.Bottom line is the Yanks, Sox, and Rays probably have 3 of the top 5 staffs in baseball (like I said above, if Price pitches good I think TB has the best staff overall).Youre really just splitting hairs here.
 
Neither of the staffs will be as good as the Rays'.
Yanks 4 & 5 is much better than Sonnastine & Niemann. Once Price comes up (and if he pitches like hes capable and not like a rookie) then I think Rays is better.
You (not just you, everybody...even me before last year) continues to underrate Sonnanstine. That's fine though. I'll put him up against any #4 in the league.Price will be up for at least 2/3 of the season, and I'm sure he'll do fine.
 
Homer @ RJ said:
shadyridr said:
Homer @ RJ said:
Neither of the staffs will be as good as the Rays'.
Yanks 4 & 5 is much better than Sonnastine & Niemann. Once Price comes up (and if he pitches like hes capable and not like a rookie) then I think Rays is better.
You (not just you, everybody...even me before last year) continues to underrate Sonnanstine. That's fine though. I'll put him up against any #4 in the league.Price will be up for at least 2/3 of the season, and I'm sure he'll do fine.
It wasnt really a knock on Sonnanstine but Niemann. And Price will be fine too but will have some struggling moments (just like Joba last year).
 
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Just curious as to how the Yankees starters compare to Beckett/Dice-K/Lester/Penny/Smoltz/Wakefield/Bucholtz, especially if people are assuming good health for everyone . . .

Similarly, the Sox could have whoever was not starting plus Hansack, Lopez, Delcarmen, Saito, Ramirez, Masterson, Okajima, and Papelbon in the pen.

Bottom line, I'm not seeing the Yankees staff as having an advantage over Boston's.
You are better than this. Seriously.
 
Just curious as to how the Yankees starters compare to Beckett/Dice-K/Lester/Penny/Smoltz/Wakefield/Bucholtz, especially if people are assuming good health for everyone . . .

Similarly, the Sox could have whoever was not starting plus Hansack, Lopez, Delcarmen, Saito, Ramirez, Masterson, Okajima, and Papelbon in the pen.

Bottom line, I'm not seeing the Yankees staff as having an advantage over Boston's.
You are better than this. Seriously.
:popcorn: But, they don't.

 
Just curious as to how the Yankees starters compare to Beckett/Dice-K/Lester/Penny/Smoltz/Wakefield/Bucholtz, especially if people are assuming good health for everyone . . .

Similarly, the Sox could have whoever was not starting plus Hansack, Lopez, Delcarmen, Saito, Ramirez, Masterson, Okajima, and Papelbon in the pen.

Bottom line, I'm not seeing the Yankees staff as having an advantage over Boston's.
CC > BeckettDiceK > Burnett

Lester > Wang

Pettitte & Joba >>>>>> Smoltz/Penny/Wakefield

Yanks starting staff is deeper. Sox 1-3 are a bit better.

Closers are equal. Okajima, Delcarmen, Masterson are all pretty good but so are Coke, Bruney, Veras, and Ramirez. Both teams have good, young bullpens.

Bottom line is the Yanks, Sox, and Rays probably have 3 of the top 5 staffs in baseball (like I said above, if Price pitches good I think TB has the best staff overall).

Youre really just splitting hairs here.
I'd argue this point pretty vehemently if Smoltz comes back healthy. A healthy Joba and Smoltz are probably a push (with Joba having the the higher upside). Penny/Wakefield/Pettitte are all what they are at this point, league average starters.
 
Just curious as to how the Yankees starters compare to Beckett/Dice-K/Lester/Penny/Smoltz/Wakefield/Bucholtz, especially if people are assuming good health for everyone . . .

Similarly, the Sox could have whoever was not starting plus Hansack, Lopez, Delcarmen, Saito, Ramirez, Masterson, Okajima, and Papelbon in the pen.

Bottom line, I'm not seeing the Yankees staff as having an advantage over Boston's.
You are better than this. Seriously.
Here are the stats from the past three seasons for all relevant guys on both pitching staffs . . .Sabathia 48-28, 1.14. 3.03

Burnett 38-26, 1.28, 3.94

Wang 46-15, 1.30, 3.74

Pettitte 43-36, 1.43, 4.26

Chamberlain 6-3, 1.16, 2.17

Rivera 14-14, 103, 0.92, 2.12

Ramirez 6-2, 2, 1.39, 5.07

Veras 5-3, 3, 1.37, 3.92

Marte 8-10, 5, 1.25, 3.47

Bruney 7-3, 1, 1.37, 3.00

Albaladejo 1-2, 0, 1.07, 2.89

Giese 1-5, 0, 1.20, 3.76

Aceves 1-0, 1.17, 2.40

Beckett 48-28, 1.21, 4.11

Dice K 33-15, 1.32, 3.72

Lester 27-8, 1.39, 3.81

Wakefield 34-34, 1.28, 4.50

Penny 38-22, 1.40, 4.16

Smoltz 33-19, 1.19, 3.27

Buchholz 5-10, 1.60, 5.56

Papelbon 10-9, 113, 0.84, 1.70

Okajima 6-4, 6, 1.06, 2.40

Delcarmen 3-2, 3, 1.24, 3.51

Masterson 6-5, 0, 1.22, 3.16

Saito 12-7, 81, 0.91, 1.95

Ramirez 9-7, 1, 1.28, 3.62

Lopez 5-1, 1, 1.35, 2.70

Hansack 2-2, 0, 1.15, 3.70

If there is an advantage overall to the Yankees, please enlighten me as I am not seeing it.

 
David Yudkin said:
Just curious as to how the Yankees starters compare to Beckett/Dice-K/Lester/Penny/Smoltz/Wakefield/Bucholtz, especially if people are assuming good health for everyone . . .

Similarly, the Sox could have whoever was not starting plus Hansack, Lopez, Delcarmen, Saito, Ramirez, Masterson, Okajima, and Papelbon in the pen.

Bottom line, I'm not seeing the Yankees staff as having an advantage over Boston's.
You are better than this. Seriously.
Here are the stats from the past three seasons for all relevant guys on both pitching staffs . . .Sabathia 48-28, 1.14. 3.03

Burnett 38-26, 1.28, 3.94

Wang 46-15, 1.30, 3.74

Pettitte 43-36, 1.43, 4.26

Chamberlain 6-3, 1.16, 2.17

Rivera 14-14, 103, 0.92, 2.12

Ramirez 6-2, 2, 1.39, 5.07

Veras 5-3, 3, 1.37, 3.92

Marte 8-10, 5, 1.25, 3.47

Bruney 7-3, 1, 1.37, 3.00

Albaladejo 1-2, 0, 1.07, 2.89

Giese 1-5, 0, 1.20, 3.76

Aceves 1-0, 1.17, 2.40

Beckett 48-28, 1.21, 4.11

Dice K 33-15, 1.32, 3.72

Lester 27-8, 1.39, 3.81

Wakefield 34-34, 1.28, 4.50

Penny 38-22, 1.40, 4.16

Smoltz 33-19, 1.19, 3.27

Buchholz 5-10, 1.60, 5.56

Papelbon 10-9, 113, 0.84, 1.70

Okajima 6-4, 6, 1.06, 2.40

Delcarmen 3-2, 3, 1.24, 3.51

Masterson 6-5, 0, 1.22, 3.16

Saito 12-7, 81, 0.91, 1.95

Ramirez 9-7, 1, 1.28, 3.62

Lopez 5-1, 1, 1.35, 2.70

Hansack 2-2, 0, 1.15, 3.70

If there is an advantage overall to the Yankees, please enlighten me as I am not seeing it.
You are making a tremendous leap of faith with the Wakefield/Penny/Smoltz/Buchholz scenario especially considering Penny and Smoltz were strictly NL. The pens are very close. 2 great closers and a ton of very good arms. I'd even give a slight edge there to Boston, but that's if Saito is healthy and is still pitching to the NL West.

CC > Beckett

Burnett = Dice BB

Wang = Lester

Pettitte/Joba > Wakefield and sore arm mess.

 
Wang = Lester
definitely, definitely not. I would also argue your CC > Beckett contention as well.
Agreed.
If you guys are talking about the Wang/Lester comparison, I guess I can see your point. I don't know that you can definitively say one is better than the other yet because we haven't seen enough of Lester to make that call. He SEEMS better, but it's still only been one season. And in what was supposedly an outstanding year for Lester, his 3.21 ERA and 1.27 WHIP didn't blow away Wang's peripherals (3.63/1.31 & 3.70/1.29) by any means. And while I'm not big on using wins to measure a pitcher's ability, his numbers are good enough that you have to give him credit for going 38-13 over two seasons...you don't do that by accident.Now, if you guys are going to make the case that Josh Beckett is better than CC Sabathia, I'd just ask what planet you're on. I bolded the categories that each has been better in over the last three seasons.

2006-2008

Beckett

48-28 W/L (.632 WP)

579.2 IP

524 K (8.1 K/9)

148 BB (3.5 K/BB ratio)

71 HR allowed (I realize this is inflated due to 2006, and he's only given up 17 and 18 the last 2 years)

4.11 ERA

1.21 WHIP

Sabathia

48-28 W/L (.632 WP)

686.2 IP

632 K (8.2 K/9)

140 BB (4.5 K/BB ratio)

56 HR allowed (15 fewer HR allowed in over 100 MORE IP)

3.03 ERA

1.14 WHIP

 
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Wang = Lester
definitely, definitely not. I would also argue your CC > Beckett contention as well.
Agreed.
If you guys are talking about the Wang/Lester comparison, I guess I can see your point. I don't know that you can definitively say one is better than the other yet because we haven't seen enough of Lester to make that call. He SEEMS better, but it's still only been one season. And in what was supposedly an outstanding year for Lester, his 3.21 ERA and 1.27 WHIP didn't blow away Wang's peripherals (3.63/1.31 & 3.70/1.29) by any means. And while I'm not big on using wins to measure a pitcher's ability, his numbers are good enough that you have to give him credit for going 38-13 over two seasons...you don't do that by accident.Now, if you guys are going to make the case that Josh Beckett is better than CC Sabathia, I'd just ask what planet you're on. I bolded the categories that each has been better in over the last three seasons.

2006-2008

Beckett

48-28 W/L (.632 WP)

579.2 IP

524 K (8.1 K/9)

148 BB (3.5 K/BB ratio)

71 HR allowed (I realize this is inflated due to 2006, and he's only given up 17 and 18 the last 2 years)

4.11 ERA

1.21 WHIP

Sabathia

48-28 W/L (.632 WP)

686.2 IP

632 K (8.2 K/9)

140 BB (4.5 K/BB ratio)

56 HR allowed (15 fewer HR allowed in over 100 MORE IP)

3.03 ERA

1.14 WHIP
I won't speak for Saxophone Sam, but the think the gist of the idea is that C.C. will see a marked regression in his move to the Yankees.
 
I wasn't one of the ones suggesting Beckett is better than CC. However, if you look at his AL only numbers from the past 3 years . . .

37-26, 1.17, 3.35

Yes, those are better numbers than Beckett's, to the tune of roughly 3/4 a run in ERA. IMO, if Beckett is healthy then CC would still have an advantage but the two might be a little closer than some would think.

 
Wang = Lester
definitely, definitely not. I would also argue your CC > Beckett contention as well.
That's fine. You'd be wrong, but you can still argue.Why does everyone hate Wang? Is it the lack of K's?
He's not a good fantasy pitcher. Stat geeks love that.
If we're talking fantasy baseball, there's a whole buttload of guys who are better than Wang and I have zero problem admitting it. But in real life, which is what I thought this thread was about, Wang is good.
 
Michael Brown said:
Darth Cheney said:
Giantseasonticketholder said:
Homer @ RJ said:
Wang = Lester
definitely, definitely not. I would also argue your CC > Beckett contention as well.
That's fine. You'd be wrong, but you can still argue.Why does everyone hate Wang? Is it the lack of K's?
He's not a good fantasy pitcher. Stat geeks love that.
If we're talking fantasy baseball, there's a whole buttload of guys who are better than Wang and I have zero problem admitting it. But in real life, which is what I thought this thread was about, Wang is good.
I agree. He's not a legit one though...and I do think Lester has the stuff to be one.I don't think that right now there is much of a difference between Lester and Wang. in a couple of years....yes.

 
I agree. He's not a legit one though...and I do think Lester has the stuff to be one.I don't think that right now there is much of a difference between Lester and Wang. in a couple of years....yes.
I agree. POTENTIALLY, Lester has the stuff to be better than Wang. Is Lester better than Wang right now? I don't think so. I think they are about even.
 
I agree. He's not a legit one though...and I do think Lester has the stuff to be one.I don't think that right now there is much of a difference between Lester and Wang. in a couple of years....yes.
I agree. POTENTIALLY, Lester has the stuff to be better than Wang. Is Lester better than Wang right now? I don't think so. I think they are about even.
The difference between Lester and Wang is that Lester has more ammo. If Wang's balls aren't dropping.....he's going to struggle. Lester can get you a couple of different ways. That's where he is better right now. I don't think right now it's head and shoulders as Wang is still very capable of throwing great baseball (not fantasy) games and could probably match Lester throughout the season. It's just that Lester has more chances at success.
 
Homer @ RJ said:
Wang = Lester
definitely, definitely not. I would also argue your CC > Beckett contention as well.
Mr. Pickles said:
Homer @ RJ said:
Wang = Lester
definitely, definitely not. I would also argue your CC > Beckett contention as well.
Agreed.
Please you guys are so ######ed its ridiculous. CC Sabathia's numbers are better than Beckett's across the board. Hes a better pitcher and the stats prove it.
 
Michael Brown said:
Mr. Pickles said:
Homer @ RJ said:
Wang = Lester
definitely, definitely not. I would also argue your CC > Beckett contention as well.
Agreed.
If you guys are talking about the Wang/Lester comparison, I guess I can see your point. I don't know that you can definitively say one is better than the other yet because we haven't seen enough of Lester to make that call. He SEEMS better, but it's still only been one season. And in what was supposedly an outstanding year for Lester, his 3.21 ERA and 1.27 WHIP didn't blow away Wang's peripherals (3.63/1.31 & 3.70/1.29) by any means. And while I'm not big on using wins to measure a pitcher's ability, his numbers are good enough that you have to give him credit for going 38-13 over two seasons...you don't do that by accident.Now, if you guys are going to make the case that Josh Beckett is better than CC Sabathia, I'd just ask what planet you're on. I bolded the categories that each has been better in over the last three seasons.

2006-2008

Beckett

48-28 W/L (.632 WP)

579.2 IP

524 K (8.1 K/9)

148 BB (3.5 K/BB ratio)

71 HR allowed (I realize this is inflated due to 2006, and he's only given up 17 and 18 the last 2 years)

4.11 ERA

1.21 WHIP

Sabathia

48-28 W/L (.632 WP)

686.2 IP

632 K (8.2 K/9)

140 BB (4.5 K/BB ratio)

56 HR allowed (15 fewer HR allowed in over 100 MORE IP)

3.03 ERA

1.14 WHIP
:thumbup:
 
Please you guys are so ######ed its ridiculous. CC Sabathia's numbers are better than Beckett's across the board. Hes a better pitcher and the stats prove it.
I think you're missing something here, sentralvr.
;) good one
Sorry, it's an SE-R making it much more manly.Regardless of your sweet ride, the point is about C.C.'s prospects going forward. I think he's something of a delicate flower, myself.
 
Mr. Pickles said:
Homer @ RJ said:
Wang = Lester
definitely, definitely not. I would also argue your CC > Beckett contention as well.
Agreed.
I would presume you're basing your definate definate statement regarding Wang and Lester on 2008, and I'll admit, Lester should only be stronger, and Wang will have to reestablish things this year, although, he had a freak foot injury, not arm issues, last year at least.But if you're putting stock in 08, how could you argue CC versus Beckett?
 
Darth Cheney said:
Giantseasonticketholder said:
Homer @ RJ said:
Wang = Lester
definitely, definitely not. I would also argue your CC > Beckett contention as well.
That's fine. You'd be wrong, but you can still argue.Why does everyone hate Wang? Is it the lack of K's?
He's not a good fantasy pitcher. Stat geeks love that.
I don't play fantasy baseball.If you don't miss bats, you better have a damn good defense up the middle to help you.

And he has Derek Jeter.

I find arguing with Yankee fans on this stuff to be semi-pointless. I told all of you a few years ago that Cano would eventually struggle because he can't take a walk and won't hit .340 every year (or, ever again). I was blown off and he was barely a AAA-player last year. So, whatever.

Wang is dependent on having a good defense behind him. He doesn't. Sooner rather than later, he will struggle.

 

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