The Commish
Footballguy
I don't think so. Even the organic ones tell you to keep your animals away from the areas you spray for 24 hours.
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Lawn Care Tips (1 Viewer)
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D_House
Footballguy
Corn gluten meal is safe (in fact, a lot of dog foods include CGM as an ingredient) as a pre-emergent herbicide and fertilizer, but you need to time it right and reported results have been mixed. Plus as a pre-emergent it has no effect on established weeds and you can't apply it if you are going to seed.Maybe if you have a localized problem you can spot treat with a chemical weed killer and then put up some kind of protection (like a sun- and water-permeable row cover) to keep your dogs from eating it.
Dark Matter
Footballguy
I'm not a big on Scott's but they do have their Ecosense line of products that are designed with kids and pets in mind.
Rovers
Footballguy
Weed and feeds are a stupoid concept, and something that also isn't very effective. Most weeds will only become unhappy after one treatment, but not die. It's silly to try to combine a fertilization program into a weed control program anyway. Other than crabgrass preventers like penidmethalin (Scott's halts) or prodiamine (Barricade) only these kinds of pre-emergent herbicides can be effectivley used as combo weed control fert applications.
It is smarter, more effective and in some ways safer to spot spray for weeds, and use straight fert instead. Some of the "organic-eccentrics" like to make weed killers out to be unsafe. In most cases, hey are quite safe, and most are labeled as safe to re-enter the treated area as soon as the sprayed herbicide has dried, and that isn't 24 hours. Roundup, active ingredeint glyphosate has been the target of the organis for a long time, but the stuff is as safe as it can get, it breaks down an enzyme ONLY found in plant materials. The LD50 as tested by the FDA is very low (lethal dose 50 percent kill of test population). Glyphosate ia about as toxic as 14% acedic acid... table vinegar. Plus it's half life is 3 months, although some studies say 1 month.
These 3 way herbicides, most listing the first AI (active ingredient) as 2,4-D is also pretty freakin safe. That would be the Weed be Gones (Ortho) and the bayer and Spectracide lawn weed killers. usually, it takes two sprayings 7 to 10 days apart to kill common stuff like clover and dandelions, and you can;t do that with as single weed and feed fert application.
Media hype has convinced people that "organics" are safer, but not true. Merit, the grub killing insecticide is organic... nicotine is the active ingredient. That doesn't make it safe, it's even restricted on LI NY because of how toxic it is. Organic does not equal safe any more than man made equals harmful. Media hype, tree hugging extremism.
Now, insecticides are a different issue. They are poisons, and must be treated as such. In the case of insect cotrols, it's always better to try to use an organic solution. Use poison as a worst case scenario tool. Many organic IPM (Integrated Pest Management) approaches can work, especially in the veggie garden.
Rant over. I am a retired landscaper with a NYS DEC (Department of Environmental Conservation) Pesticide Certification. Credentials might matter to some. Point is, I spent a good part of my life using both man made and organic pest controls. You can't kill ants without poison. Corn gluten meal is a joke. Herbicides work, and when applied responsibly are effective and safe. I'm sure some organic is gonna rail now... go ahead.
PS: As far as pets and kids go, what I said here is fact... the unknown variable is allergies. Some kids can get deathly ill from eating a peanut... some animals and kids can have reactions to almost anything, including man made materials and even organics. Bear that in mind.
It is smarter, more effective and in some ways safer to spot spray for weeds, and use straight fert instead. Some of the "organic-eccentrics" like to make weed killers out to be unsafe. In most cases, hey are quite safe, and most are labeled as safe to re-enter the treated area as soon as the sprayed herbicide has dried, and that isn't 24 hours. Roundup, active ingredeint glyphosate has been the target of the organis for a long time, but the stuff is as safe as it can get, it breaks down an enzyme ONLY found in plant materials. The LD50 as tested by the FDA is very low (lethal dose 50 percent kill of test population). Glyphosate ia about as toxic as 14% acedic acid... table vinegar. Plus it's half life is 3 months, although some studies say 1 month.
These 3 way herbicides, most listing the first AI (active ingredient) as 2,4-D is also pretty freakin safe. That would be the Weed be Gones (Ortho) and the bayer and Spectracide lawn weed killers. usually, it takes two sprayings 7 to 10 days apart to kill common stuff like clover and dandelions, and you can;t do that with as single weed and feed fert application.
Media hype has convinced people that "organics" are safer, but not true. Merit, the grub killing insecticide is organic... nicotine is the active ingredient. That doesn't make it safe, it's even restricted on LI NY because of how toxic it is. Organic does not equal safe any more than man made equals harmful. Media hype, tree hugging extremism.
Now, insecticides are a different issue. They are poisons, and must be treated as such. In the case of insect cotrols, it's always better to try to use an organic solution. Use poison as a worst case scenario tool. Many organic IPM (Integrated Pest Management) approaches can work, especially in the veggie garden.
Rant over. I am a retired landscaper with a NYS DEC (Department of Environmental Conservation) Pesticide Certification. Credentials might matter to some. Point is, I spent a good part of my life using both man made and organic pest controls. You can't kill ants without poison. Corn gluten meal is a joke. Herbicides work, and when applied responsibly are effective and safe. I'm sure some organic is gonna rail now... go ahead.
PS: As far as pets and kids go, what I said here is fact... the unknown variable is allergies. Some kids can get deathly ill from eating a peanut... some animals and kids can have reactions to almost anything, including man made materials and even organics. Bear that in mind.
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D_House
Footballguy
The problem that some folks have specifically with Roundup for home use is not with the active ingredient, but with the inert additives included in its formulation. The studies promoting Roundup's safety tested only glyophosphate and not the product as sold. Since Monsanto's patent on glyophosphate has expired, numerous competitors have started selling glyophosphate-only products that are presumably safer than Roundup.Merit grub control is not considered an organic solution. Instead, a bacterial milky spore application or benefical nematode application are the suggested organic solutions to grub infestations.
ShaqAttaq
Morally Ambiguous
the previous owners at this house i bought the winter stopped maintaining the yard and there a ton of bare spots that i've been trying to repair via hope. that hasn't worked, so i plan on using the rake/seed/topsoil program on the bare spots. i hate scotts fertilizers, & prefer teh 19-19-19 that i use for nearly all purposes. i did buy some (15-3-5 with 1.58 Viper herbicide) weed&feed, but reading the last couple pages makes sense. i might go to the hose-mounted setup for future dandelion wars.
bushdocda
Footballguy
So we have a low deck 3 steps above ground level going up this week. I want to kill the grass underneath to avoid having a wild ecosystem going on underneath me as much as possible.
Considering spraying Roundup on that section of grass or covering area with a tarp and a whole lot of rocks.
Suggestions?
Considering spraying Roundup on that section of grass or covering area with a tarp and a whole lot of rocks.
Suggestions?
shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
Ground cover and gravel is what I did. I think I may have used black poly sheeting, just make sure it is thick enough. I wouldn't buy a "tarp".
snogger
Footballguy
You were correct on it being dimethylamine.. I may need to get reading glasses sooner rather than laterProbably "dimethylamine," not "pimethylamine." Also, it's probably "proprionic" not "propioni." I have no idea what "dicurba" is. These sound like weird trade names, like what you read off of a bottle of shampoo. IUPAC would have a heart attack, as would any real chemist.Basically, you're pumping a bunch of nitrogen into your soil.The ingredients are something of a chemist dream, aka Greek to me:
Pimethylamine salt of dichloro-phenoxyacetic acid
Pimethylamine salt of propioni acid
Pimethylamine salt of dicurba
Whatever it is.. IT WORKS GREAT!!!
:The weed killer of champs 
beer 30
Footballguy
Ya know I told them there is this Commish guy up in Fort Mill and he rents in Rock Hill all the time. Sadly you were the only one. The upside is we open & close that store more than a car door so it should be back on the map soonI use them all the timeFunny you mention renting a dingo. I just happen to know of this place that might have the very thing you need to complete your task in a timely, efficient, cost effective manner. Just saying. . .If I were you, i'd rent one of those stand behind dingos for a day unless you want the workout. Around here they are about $100-$200 a day. You'd easily have it done in a day.My yard is dead.
I do the same thing every year and I always have a beautiful front yard. This year, my yard looks like a hayfield. I know this was a pretty dry winter, but I did water now and again. The problem also was this year was easily one of the windiest years on record, so I think that contributed to the dryness.
I am also wondering if the soil just turned bad. I ripped up a couple of small sections and two inches down it is solid clay--hard as a rock clay.
So I give up!! I am tearing it out and installing rock. Luckily I have a small yard (850 sq feet) and I am only going to need 11 tons of rock. I am going to use the heavier gauge black plastic vs fabric as the fabric seems to come in 4x100 rolls while the plastic comes in 10x100 rolls--I am thinking the less seams in the material will equal less chances for weeds to come through. I know the plastic tends to biodegrade quicker, but I am planning on 3 inches of rock cover. Anyone have any hints on what to avoid/what to do? Any thoughts on how long it should take me to shovel all this myself?Now i have to to go Westinghouse.
The Commish
Footballguy
So it's not just my imagination. I SWEAR one week it's open, then closes, then opens again a few weeks later.Ya know I told them there is this Commish guy up in Fort Mill and he rents in Rock Hill all the time. Sadly you were the only one. The upside is we open & close that store more than a car door so it should be back on the map soonI use them all the timeFunny you mention renting a dingo. I just happen to know of this place that might have the very thing you need to complete your task in a timely, efficient, cost effective manner. Just saying. . .If I were you, i'd rent one of those stand behind dingos for a day unless you want the workout. Around here they are about $100-$200 a day. You'd easily have it done in a day.My yard is dead.
I do the same thing every year and I always have a beautiful front yard. This year, my yard looks like a hayfield. I know this was a pretty dry winter, but I did water now and again. The problem also was this year was easily one of the windiest years on record, so I think that contributed to the dryness.
I am also wondering if the soil just turned bad. I ripped up a couple of small sections and two inches down it is solid clay--hard as a rock clay.
So I give up!! I am tearing it out and installing rock. Luckily I have a small yard (850 sq feet) and I am only going to need 11 tons of rock. I am going to use the heavier gauge black plastic vs fabric as the fabric seems to come in 4x100 rolls while the plastic comes in 10x100 rolls--I am thinking the less seams in the material will equal less chances for weeds to come through. I know the plastic tends to biodegrade quicker, but I am planning on 3 inches of rock cover. Anyone have any hints on what to avoid/what to do? Any thoughts on how long it should take me to shovel all this myself?
beer 30
Footballguy
Well du huh. No self respecting rental company doesn't.I'm assuming you have one of those stupid two story entryways that have a huge window on the second floor but yo have no way to get to it? Hate those things but digress. We have some small push-around units that might get you that high and if not, we have some electrics that will get you there. Call your local store and they will hook you up.
bushdocda
Footballguy
My thin crappy lawn is hanging on in the hot mid Atlantic summer. Need to instill some life in my clay and rock post- construction soil Gearing up to aerate, reseed and top dress in Sept.
Any recommendations on seed type or alternatives/additives to topsoil as top dressing?
Also should I include fertilizer with the seed or fertilize some time period after?
I've seen fancy seed like Pearls Premium that look great but might be all marketing. Thanks in advance for helping my lawn suck less.
Any recommendations on seed type or alternatives/additives to topsoil as top dressing?
Also should I include fertilizer with the seed or fertilize some time period after?
I've seen fancy seed like Pearls Premium that look great but might be all marketing. Thanks in advance for helping my lawn suck less.
D_House
Footballguy
Try to match the seed type with the growing conditions of your yard. Fescues do better in shade and Kentucky bluegrass does best in sun, so buy a blend in the appropriate proportions. Beyond the seed blend and the germination rate any other info on the package that the manufacturer adds is probably just marketing.Aerating is good, use a core aerator - the kind that pulls plugs of soil out of the turf and deposits it on top. Any soil type can be improved both structurally and nutritionally by adding organic matter. Most store bought top soils have a limited amount of organic matter, so I would try to get some compost to topdress with. Leaving fall leaves on your grass and just mulch mowing them in is an even cheaper way to add organic material to your lawn.Fertilizing should probably be done after your grass seedlings are established, especially if you are going to use a chemical fertilizer.'bushdocda said:
mr. furley
Footballguy
anyone got a good lawn service to recommend?
we must have 38 types of weeds.. my grass grows in varied lengths.. varied types. some spots don't grow at all and others i have 8" of grass after a week. most of all its over-run by pickers, dandelions, creeping charlie, etc. and i don't have time to catch up without nuking the whole thing.
we must have 38 types of weeds.. my grass grows in varied lengths.. varied types. some spots don't grow at all and others i have 8" of grass after a week. most of all its over-run by pickers, dandelions, creeping charlie, etc. and i don't have time to catch up without nuking the whole thing.
The Commish
Footballguy
I've been using a blend of three different fescues and it's simply not working. I get through August and there are parts of the lawn that look like they've been attacked with a blow torch. Part of the problem was me putting too much seed down a couple years ago. Last year and this year, I will de-thatch then reseed, putting down less seed in the bare spots, but I am also going to switch to a fescue, bluegrass blend.
shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
Are you still in Cincinnati? I think we've just had a couple rough summers. Everyone's grass is brown right now.
The Commish
Footballguy
No sir....moved south a few years ago. Though, I will say the climates during the summer are very similar. Really hot and really humid. We've had plenty of rain and I water regularly. I thought it was brown patch at first, but this stuff simply dies.
Dark Matter
Footballguy
Lawn Services are mostly teh suck. Take the divide and conquer approach. Sounds like you probably have mostly broad leaf weeds so get a weed and feed product (like this) at the local Home Depot/Nursery place. Starting in September begin the Fall applications. You should start to see the grasses take over where the broadleafs were. Plant the seed that you desire (Kentucky Blue/Ryegrass mixes work well in Wisconsin)in April. Starting in June, use your weed and feed again. Try this method for a couple years and see how it looks. Good Luck!
Buddy Ball 2K3
Footballguy
Well I think my lawn is a lost cause. It has not needed mowing in well over a month and it cracks when you walk on it. We have had rain the past few days and the weeds popped up a foot high in what seems like hours. So as of today I have brown dead looking grass and foot high weeds. What to do?
Dark Matter
Footballguy
So I live in Oklahoma and this summer was brutal on my bermuda grass. I compounded that by spraying a weed killer in the spring that made the entire yard go brown. It has recovered a bit here in the fall, but the grass is still pretty marginal and weeds are frequent.
Any ideas on how to repair the yard while eliminating weeds?
Any ideas on how to repair the yard while eliminating weeds?
Dark Matter
Footballguy
You are coming to the end of the growing season for bermudagrass. What I would do is feed it asap with a balanced blend of fertilizer (9-9-9 or 15-15-15) and water it in. This will help "push" it now and when the soil temps start to rise in the spring. It will be at that time when you want to get on the food again using the same blend. Again, water it in after every feeding. The weeds you can still work on now by putting down a selective weed killer from any landscape or garden center. You could get tricky and overseed your bermudagrass with "winter rye" but the window for that is closing if not already closed in your neck of the woods. Maybe something to look at in the future. Good Luck!!
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Should I overseed in the spring?
moleculo
Footballguy
Isn't it a bit late to be adding N? My understanding is that once the bermuda goes dormant, all of that N will be available for the weeds.My vote is pre-emergent for now, maybe some potash (K) if needed, and try to get on top of it in the spring.
Jayded
Footballguy
We just bought a new home across town and made the move yesterday (yes I know, terrible time to move). The lawn itself has been down for roughly 2.5 weeks. The builder did their typical maintenance on the lawn and kept the sprinklers running on it for 2 weeks. After a dry summer, we've actually had a lot of rain lately too, so the sprinklers actually probably only ran half the amount of time expected.
That said, I want to get this right this time around. I fought with my lawn a lot in the last home, largely because I feel like I wasn't entirely sure what I was doing and was having to be more reactionary than proactive. This time I'd prefer to be proactive.
Here's the specs: We live in Austin, TX and the grass this time is St. Augustine. What are the steps I should be taking now with the brand new lawn to help ensure success moving forward, especially since it's being installed in a typically dormant period for the grass?
That said, I want to get this right this time around. I fought with my lawn a lot in the last home, largely because I feel like I wasn't entirely sure what I was doing and was having to be more reactionary than proactive. This time I'd prefer to be proactive.
Here's the specs: We live in Austin, TX and the grass this time is St. Augustine. What are the steps I should be taking now with the brand new lawn to help ensure success moving forward, especially since it's being installed in a typically dormant period for the grass?
Cajun Heat
Footballguy
I've got a question on lawn aeration. I was searching for info on-line and came across this discussion of a liquid aerator: http://www.natureslawn.com/notes-on-core-aeration.php
Within this is a link that talks more about this product. Has anyone ever used a liquid aerator like this? What I'm reading seems to make sense, and it's certainly less work than manually aerating and cheaper than paying someone else to do it. I'm curious as to anyone's experience. Thanks.
Within this is a link that talks more about this product. Has anyone ever used a liquid aerator like this? What I'm reading seems to make sense, and it's certainly less work than manually aerating and cheaper than paying someone else to do it. I'm curious as to anyone's experience. Thanks.
D_House
Footballguy
I have no experience with liquid aeration. The concept behind it seems to be the same as that espoused by some organic lawn gurus whom also suggest that manual aeration is unnecessary. They suggest that it's better to build the soil up by mulch-mowing (grass and leaves) to provide fodder for microbes (and earthworms). Supplementation by spreading organic compost over the lawn is another method of improving soil health that the organic guys suggest. I suppose this product is designed to help accelerate microbial growth. If it actually does this is unclear, and its efficacy will also depend on the rest of the lawn care regime. It doesn't make much sense to spray a 'bioactive' liquid aerator with the intention of growing a healthy microbial community if it will be followed by treatment with chemical fertilizers and/or pesticides. They work towards competing ends.
Dark Matter
Footballguy
I read the label and MSDS sheet and can't find the actual active ingredient in "Aerify." It does contain humic acids, Kelp which are good soil conditioners but I'm leary of anyone touting the replacement to core aeration with out letting me in on the secret.
The Commish
Footballguy
It depends on your soil and how much it needs to be processed. For me, I need the core done. We are pretty much clay and the liquids won't do much to the clay. If you're in a well conditioned area to begin with, perhaps this would work fine.
moleculo
Footballguy
I finally gave up and signed up with TruGreen. Quite a few of my neighbors use it and their lawns are in much better shape than mine. Right now especially - it's all dormant, but the difference in broadleaf weeds between their lawns and mine is pretty dramatic.
Maybe after a couple of years, once my lawn is in a good, established, condition I'll be able to maintain, but I've been having a hell of a time getting to that level.
Maybe after a couple of years, once my lawn is in a good, established, condition I'll be able to maintain, but I've been having a hell of a time getting to that level.
The Commish
Footballguy
The OPH closed by me, so I switched back to Scotts last fall. I already see a difference in my yard compared to this time last year.
Cajun Heat
Footballguy
That's a good point. I'm in north Texas, so the soil is pretty clay-heavy. This may not be the best option.'The Commish said:
Dark Matter
Footballguy
Update?
The Commish
Footballguy
Forget it. Your soil is similar to mine. It won't help. All you can do is aerate the crap out of it and spread good top soil. I moved into my house in 2007 and started with zero grassthe first spring, I aerated and covered with top soil....that summer, battled weeds, crabgrass etc. That fall, I aerated again, fertilized and put down more soil. The following spring aerated and put down soil...you get the picture. I did that for 2.5 years. Now, I just aerate in the fall and put down seed. Takes time, but it seemed to work.
shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
This summer was pretty bad. Despite the wettest April in Cincinnati's history, the rest of the summer was still brutal on the lawn. Aerated and overseeded in the fall, hoping that will help.
Wild Young Billy
A Crazy Cat
Is it ok to put down grass seed this time of year, after an application of crabgrass preventer? Will that kill the seed too?
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Typically you can not do this as crabgrass preventer does also kill the grass seed.However, if you can find it, there are certain formulas of crab grass preventer that do not kill grass seed. They are expensive.If you read the first post in this thread I made many moons ago, you will see that it is generally recommended to seed in the fall rather than the spring for a variety of reasons.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I am not in your area of the country so I am not sure but for here in New England that is way way too early for a weed and feed. The weed and feeds typically target broadleef weeds and they are best to kill when they are actively growing.Here in New England I would not put down a weed and feed until the mid to late May time frame (depending upon weed activity).
Tuco
Footballguy
Thanks. So is there something else I can put down now to try and kill off some of these weeds? If I spend much more on different products, it may be more cost effective to go with a couple applications of TruGreen next year.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
I live in Michigan and with all the warm weather we have had the last month all theses crazy weeds that I never had before are popping up all over the place. I have these patches of what looks like wild grass that seems to grow 2 inches a night.
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belljr
Footballguy
If you are not planting seed now it's ok to put down step 1 with Halts. I think it's the blue scotts bag.I live in NJ.Then in may you will but down another treatment of the next step, for pre-emergent dandelions crabgrass (i think yellow), the a summer treatment ( i think orange) then september seed, fertilize, then november a winter fertilizer ( i think brown).I don't use scotts anymore but I use the same schedule.
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