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The Birther Conspiracy Thread (1 Viewer)

timschochet

Footballguy
This article is from Ben Smith of Politico:

Bill Clinton had the Vince Foster "murder." George W. Bush had 9/11 Truth. And the new administration has brought with it a new culture of conspiracy: The Birthers.

Out of the gaze of the mainstream and even the conservative media is a flourishing culture of advocates, theorists and lawyers, all devoted to proving that Barack Obama isn't eligible to be president of the United States. Viewed as irrelevant by the White House, and as embarrassing by much of the Republican Party, the subculture still thrives from the conservative website WorldNetDaily, which claims that some 300,000 people have signed a petition demanding more information on Obama's birth, to Cullman, Alabama, where Sen. Richard Shelby took a question on the subject at a town hall meeting last week.

Their confinement to the fringe hasn't cooled the passion of believers; the obscure New York preacher James Manning turned up at a National Press Club session in December to declare the president "the most notorious criminal in the history not just of America, but of this entire planet."

A quick reality check, before we dive in: The challenges to Obama's eligibility have no grounding in evidence. Courts across the country have summarily rejected the movement's theory — that Obama can't be a citizen because his father wasn't —as a misreading of U.S. law; and Hawaii officials, along with contemporary birth announcements, affirm that Obama was in fact born in Honolulu in 1961.

But belief in obscure, discredited theories is a constant in a country with a history of partisan division — a country in which, a recent survey showed, 34 percent of the public believes in UFOs and 24 percent believes in witches..

But the thriving birth-obsessed fringe also poses political risks and opportunities for the Obama White House, coming as it does after a campaign that devoted a substantial effort to rebutting another, now fading, myth — that Obama is a Muslim who would insist on being sworn in on the Koran.

The risk, of course, is the growth of a segment of the population, however small, that views the president as illegitimate.

"Some individuals and groups who are opposed to Obama's presidency want an 'acceptable' reason to cite to convince other individuals and groups who might be on the fence to join in their way of thinking," said Patricia Turner, who studies rumors at the University of California, Davis. "The notion that his presidency is actually in violation of the Constitution has a fundamentally patriotic appeal."

The opportunity for the White House? It's one of which some conservatives are sharply aware — that the Birthers may discredit Obama's more mainstream enemies.

"At some level, they're not that bad to have around because it reminds people that under the mainstream conservative press there's this bubbling up of really irrational hatred for the guy," said former Clinton White House press secretary Jake Siewert.

Siewert recalled that his predecessor, Mike McCurry, sometimes deliberately called on a conservative radio host, Lester Kinsolving, just to undercut more mainstream criticism of the president.

"He would let them ask a question specifically to take the heat off the more legitimate line of questioning, maybe, and remind people that there were people out there who really had some wacko views," Siewert recalled.

Conservatives see that hazard.

The conservative talk show host Michael Medved recently referred to the movement's leaders as "crazy, nutburger, demagogue, money-hungry, exploitative, irresponsible, filthy conservative imposters" who are "the worst enemy of the conservative movement."

"It makes us look weird. It makes us look crazy. It makes us look demented. It makes us look sick, troubled, and not suitable for civilized company," he mourned.

One of the lead anti-Obama lawyers, Orly Taitz, a California dentist with a degree from an online law school, promptly threatened to sue Medved for defamation. Taitz, whose clients include soldiers challenging Obama's citizenship, has called on her blog's readers to "fight these communist Nazi thugs and hoodlums that took over our government," and told POLITICO that the wide refusal to take her case seriously is "totalitarian."

The White House is, presently, ignoring the birth certificate questions, having released an official copy of the Hawaii certificate during the presidential campaign. The press aide once tasked with quashing viral rumors, Ben LaBolt, no longer follows the fringe. But lawyers for the Democratic National Committee and for Obama have been steadily batting down a stream of lawsuits, winning motions to dismiss the suits in courts from Pennsylvania to Hawaii, from the state level to the United States Supreme Court.

To believers, the legal engagement itself is evidence that something's afoot.

"[Obama] is spending hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars to keep this information from getting out," said Gary Kreep, the lawyer representing former presidential candidate Alan Keyes, who sued Obama in California to prevent the state from certifying its election results.

Keyes recently called the citizenship issue "the greatest crisis this nation has ever seen" and warned of "chaos, confusion and civil war."

Kreep has been battling Obama's California lawyer, Fredric Woocher, to release the president's records from Occidental College on the theory that they might provide information about his citizenship.

Woocher has threatened to seek sanctions against Kreep for pursuing the case.

"This suit, like all of the others that have been filed challenging Obama's qualifications for the Presidency, is frivolous," he said in an email to POLITICO, adding that he is, in fact, working pro bono. "There is absolutely no truth to the stories about the untold millions supposedly being paid to us," he said.

Most of the lawsuits seek documents and express dissatisfaction with the State of Hawaii's refusal to release for public inspection Obama's original birth certificate rather than the notarized copy typically issued. The state's governor, Linda Lingle, has attested to the authenticity of the birth certificate, and Hawaii law forbids its release; Kreep blamed Democratic control of Hawaii for the refusal to release it. (Lingle is a Republican.)

The suits share a vague, underlying notion that Obama must be some sort of foreigner, probably Kenyan, Indonesian or British, though none have any evidence or a coherent narrative to support the claim. Some argue that while Obama was born in the United States, the fact that his father was a British subject should rule him out - an interpretation that may also, inconveniently, have made President Chester Arthur ineligible to serve, and which goes against long-settled law that American citizenship is conferred by birth in the United States. Others imagine that Obama was smuggled into the country as an infant, a claim contradicted by state records and contemporaneous birth announcements in two Honolulu papers.

The movement has also faced internal divisions. Kreep, a well-known conservative litigator, expressed some discomfort with his main East Coast counterpart, Phil Berg, a former Pennsylvania prosecutor who has also sued President George W. Bush to claim that he was complicit in the September 11 attacks.

"I don't ascribe to all his theories about 9/11 and all that," Kreep said of Berg.

The movement has its occasional moments in the sun. When Cliff Kincaid of Accuracy in Media hinted darkly at citizenship questions at the Conservative Political Action Conference, he was loudly applauded, and the clip of his speech circulated with equal speed among birth certificate theorists and liberal activists.

David Emery, an expert on urban legends who writes for About.com, said the citizenship rumor has been fueled by an unusually "deep well of revulsion toward Barack Obama himself, and rage."

"Thanks to the relentless agitation of the conspiracy theorists and the sheer quantity of hypothetical scenarios and legal arguments floating around, they've clearly succeeded in planting unreasonable doubts in reasonable people's minds," he said.

But, ignored by the left and the mainstream media and dismissed by the courts, the citizenshp movement find its bitterest disappointments coming from the right.

"Untold numbers of people have asked us to look into it," said Tom Fitton, the president of Judicial Watch, which recently sued to block Hillary Clinton, on technical grounds connected to her Senate seat, from taking the position of secretary of state.

"When we sued over Hillary ineligibility there were a lot of folks saying, 'Why weren't you suing over Obama's ineligibility?'" he said..

Fitton said he hadn't "seen any credible evidence Barack Obama is not a U.S. citizen eligible for the presidency."

"If people understood better what the law is, I don't think they'd be as concerned as they are," he said.

Others have been less polite. Conservative bloggers regularly mock the "Birthers," as they're dismissively known, just as liberal blogs like DailyKos purged the 9/11 "Truthers" from their ranks in the Bush years.

The conspiracy theorists are "embarrassing and destructive" the conservative activist David Horowitz wrote recently.

Even Kreep, who was the toast of the conservative movement for representing the anti-immigration Minuteman Civil Defense Corps, has found the work a bit thankless.

"They say, 'Get a life,'" he said of his fellow conservatives," he said.

Meanwhile, the Birthers' persistence has prompted another, competing conspiracy theory on the right.

"I'm not a conspiracist, but this could be a very big conspiracy to make conservatives disgrace themselves," Medved said.

 
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Not gonna lie, not reading that whole thing.

But, they did a segment on this on NPR earlier this week. It had a clip of some woman at some town meeting with a Democratic Congressman who was there pushing the healthcare bill...she gets up and flips out. "My parents were part of the Greatest Generation, my father fought in the Pacific Theater and I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK!!!" Hearing her flip out was funny...hearing the crowd go nuts with support was creepy.

The guy they (NPR) had on to discuss it said that 8% of Americans believe that the Sun revolves around the Earth, so stuff like this just...happens.

I find it hard to take this "movement" seriously though - surely it's a fraction of a fraction of people who can be this crazy.

 
There always seems to be a fringe movement out there. When Clinton was President, it was the Vince Foster crowd. For most of Bush's term in office, it was the 9/11 Truther people. Now it's these Birther people. It doesn't seem to matter whether it's from the Left or the Right, these people always seem to be present and rather loud.

 
There always seems to be a fringe movement out there. When Clinton was President, it was the Vince Foster crowd. For most of Bush's term in office, it was the 9/11 Truther people. Now it's these Birther people. It doesn't seem to matter whether it's from the Left or the Right, these people always seem to be present and rather loud.
So how do you feel about British, Australian and Mexican troops running training missions on US soil?
 
There always seems to be a fringe movement out there. When Clinton was President, it was the Vince Foster crowd. For most of Bush's term in office, it was the 9/11 Truther people. Now it's these Birther people. It doesn't seem to matter whether it's from the Left or the Right, these people always seem to be present and rather loud.
So how do you feel about British, Australian and Mexican troops running training missions on US soil?
I think it's part of the overall plan to turn the government of this country over to the United Nations. So?
 
There always seems to be a fringe movement out there. When Clinton was President, it was the Vince Foster crowd. For most of Bush's term in office, it was the 9/11 Truther people. Now it's these Birther people. It doesn't seem to matter whether it's from the Left or the Right, these people always seem to be present and rather loud.
So how do you feel about British, Australian and Mexican troops running training missions on US soil?
:popcorn: :bag:
 
There always seems to be a fringe movement out there. When Clinton was President, it was the Vince Foster crowd. For most of Bush's term in office, it was the 9/11 Truther people. Now it's these Birther people. It doesn't seem to matter whether it's from the Left or the Right, these people always seem to be present and rather loud.
So how do you feel about British, Australian and Mexican troops running training missions on US soil?
I think it's part of the overall plan to turn the government of this country over to the United Nations. So?
I was serious. National Level Exercise 2009 (NLE 09)
 
Not gonna lie, not reading that whole thing.

But, they did a segment on this on NPR earlier this week. It had a clip of some woman at some town meeting with a Democratic Congressman who was there pushing the healthcare bill...she gets up and flips out. "My parents were part of the Greatest Generation, my father fought in the Pacific Theater and I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK!!!" Hearing her flip out was funny...hearing the crowd go nuts with support was creepy.

The guy they (NPR) had on to discuss it said that 8% of Americans believe that the Sun revolves around the Earth, so stuff like this just...happens.

I find it hard to take this "movement" seriously though - surely it's a fraction of a fraction of people who can be this crazy.
Actually, if it's the same town meeting, it was a Republican congressman - Mike Castle of Delaware. Story and video here (this hit Fark a couple of days ago)
 
This article is from Ben Smith of Politico:

But belief in obscure, discredited theories is a constant in a country with a history of partisan division — a country in which, a recent survey showed, 34 percent of the public believes in UFOs and 24 percent believes in witches..
Lost me right there. "24 percent believes in witches"? Well, gee, how many believe in Muslims? How many believe in Christians? Admittedly, there aren't as many as there are, say, Southern Baptists in the US, but estimates run as high as 10 million self-identifying Wiccans/Witches in the US.And besides, conspiracy theorists may be a little, um, enthusiastic; but they don't generate lingering questions out of whole cloth. In this case, they have several bases for their questions, some of which have been addressed and some of which haven't. That's why it's still hanging around.

 
And besides, conspiracy theorists may be a little, um, enthusiastic; but they don't generate lingering questions out of whole cloth. In this case, they have several bases for their questions, some of which have been addressed and some of which haven't. That's why it's still hanging around.
What do you find to be a reasonable basis for concern here which has not been addressed?
 
There always seems to be a fringe movement out there. When Clinton was President, it was the Vince Foster crowd. For most of Bush's term in office, it was the 9/11 Truther people. Now it's these Birther people. It doesn't seem to matter whether it's from the Left or the Right, these people always seem to be present and rather loud.
So how do you feel about British, Australian and Mexican troops running training missions on US soil?
I think it's part of the overall plan to turn the government of this country over to the United Nations. So?
I was serious. National Level Exercise 2009 (NLE 09)
Are we going into battle with them in the same vicinity? Might be a damned fine idea to have them and us on the same page.
 
Obama has spent over a million dollars keeping this conspiracy alive by refusing to release a long form birth certificate and then allowing that soldier to skip his tour of duty.

If he released the long form certificate, most of the birthers would go away.

That said, if we are serious about the "natural born" clause, a process needs to be put in place to verify eligibility.

 
Obama has spent over a million dollars keeping this conspiracy alive by refusing to release a long form birth certificate and then allowing that soldier to skip his tour of duty.If he released the long form certificate, most of the birthers would go away.That said, if we are serious about the "natural born" clause, a process needs to be put in place to verify eligibility.
Verify to who...? :yes:
 
Obama has spent over a million dollars keeping this conspiracy alive by refusing to release a long form birth certificate and then allowing that soldier to skip his tour of duty.If he released the long form certificate, most of the birthers would go away.
At this point, no it wouldn't. The same nutcases would say it's forged or whatever other crap they would spew to justify their continued belief.
 
Obama has spent over a million dollars keeping this conspiracy alive by refusing to release a long form birth certificate and then allowing that soldier to skip his tour of duty.

If he released the long form certificate, most of the birthers would go away.

That said, if we are serious about the "natural born" clause, a process needs to be put in place to verify eligibility.
Verify to who...? :yes:
try readingwhen you create a process you assign tasks to idividuals who will perform those tasks. I could see this being assigned to the FEC or a congressional subcommittee for example. It wouldn't take that long.

 
Obama has spent over a million dollars keeping this conspiracy alive by refusing to release a long form birth certificate and then allowing that soldier to skip his tour of duty.If he released the long form certificate, most of the birthers would go away.
At this point, no it wouldn't. The same nutcases would say it's forged or whatever other crap they would spew to justify their continued belief.
You'd marginalize their numbers, and you would demonstrate a respect for the written rules.
 
Obama has spent over a million dollars keeping this conspiracy alive by refusing to release a long form birth certificate and then allowing that soldier to skip his tour of duty.

If he released the long form certificate, most of the birthers would go away.

That said, if we are serious about the "natural born" clause, a process needs to be put in place to verify eligibility.
Verify to who...? :bag:
try readingwhen you create a process you assign tasks to idividuals who will perform those tasks. I could see this being assigned to the FEC or a congressional subcommittee for example. It wouldn't take that long.
A process for what??
 
Obama has spent over a million dollars keeping this conspiracy alive by refusing to release a long form birth certificate and then allowing that soldier to skip his tour of duty.If he released the long form certificate, most of the birthers would go away.
At this point, no it wouldn't. The same nutcases would say it's forged or whatever other crap they would spew to justify their continued belief.
You'd marginalize their numbers, and you would demonstrate a respect for the written rules.
Why don't you just admit that you're one of them?
 
Obama has spent over a million dollars keeping this conspiracy alive by refusing to release a long form birth certificate and then allowing that soldier to skip his tour of duty.

If he released the long form certificate, most of the birthers would go away.
Obama hasn't refused to release the long form. You can't release what you don't have. The hospital has the long form; Obama doesn't. And while Obama was able to get the short form through a faxed request, he can't get the long form without appearing at the hospital in Hawaii in person (or sending a legal designee to appear in person).It's not like the short form says "Hawaii" while the long form says "Kenya." Since they both say "Hawaii," the long form wouldn't be any more acceptable to the birthers than the short form is. They both say the wrong country.

The Wikipedia entry is fairly comprehensive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthers

 
Obama has spent over a million dollars keeping this conspiracy alive by refusing to release a long form birth certificate and then allowing that soldier to skip his tour of duty.If he released the long form certificate, most of the birthers would go away.That said, if we are serious about the "natural born" clause, a process needs to be put in place to verify eligibility.
OMG, you're one of them, aren't you?Dude, there are newspaper annoucements of his birth from 1961. Were they fabricated?
 
]What do you find to be a reasonable basis for concern here which has not been addressed?
Well, the part that I've seen that hasn't been addressed to my satisfaction (and I hope you'll excuse some vagueness here, since I don't have the discussions right at hand to quote from), is Obama's travel to Pakistan as a private citizen. There's some suggestion that this was at a time that US citizens weren't allowed in, which would suggest that he'd used some other travel documents. Now, of course, some places do allow dual citizenship under certain circumstances, so it may be nothing. But I don't recall seeing that addressed, even to dismiss it out of hand. :rolleyes: Who knows? At this point, I don't see how either side is going to settle this to the other's satisfaction.
 
]What do you find to be a reasonable basis for concern here which has not been addressed?
Well, the part that I've seen that hasn't been addressed to my satisfaction (and I hope you'll excuse some vagueness here, since I don't have the discussions right at hand to quote from), is Obama's travel to Pakistan as a private citizen. There's some suggestion that this was at a time that US citizens weren't allowed in, which would suggest that he'd used some other travel documents. Now, of course, some places do allow dual citizenship under certain circumstances, so it may be nothing. But I don't recall seeing that addressed, even to dismiss it out of hand. :shrug: Who knows? At this point, I don't see how either side is going to settle this to the other's satisfaction.
shine on..
 
Of course, not living in the US, I have only a few concerns about the leadership there, mostly to do with economic issues. If Obama's policies can get the USD strengthened, I'll be the first in line to be waving signs in the street for him. :shrug:

 
Obama has spent over a million dollars keeping this conspiracy alive by refusing to release a long form birth certificate and then allowing that soldier to skip his tour of duty.If he released the long form certificate, most of the birthers would go away.
At this point, no it wouldn't. The same nutcases would say it's forged or whatever other crap they would spew to justify their continued belief.
You'd marginalize their numbers, and you would demonstrate a respect for the written rules.
Why don't you just admit that you're one of them?
nah, The requirement is in the Constitution, and I find it annoying and off-putting that they are just blowing it off. Personally, I think it's a stupid rule, but it's a rule, and they should make the effort to follow it and not make the effort to eschew it.
 
]What do you find to be a reasonable basis for concern here which has not been addressed?
Well, the part that I've seen that hasn't been addressed to my satisfaction (and I hope you'll excuse some vagueness here, since I don't have the discussions right at hand to quote from), is Obama's travel to Pakistan as a private citizen. There's some suggestion that this was at a time that US citizens weren't allowed in, which would suggest that he'd used some other travel documents. Now, of course, some places do allow dual citizenship under certain circumstances, so it may be nothing. But I don't recall seeing that addressed, even to dismiss it out of hand. :shrug: Who knows? At this point, I don't see how either side is going to settle this to the other's satisfaction.
Another myth that is very easily dispelled. At no time has Pakistan refused American citizens to visit there.
 
nah, The requirement is in the Constitution, and I find it annoying and off-putting that they are just blowing it off. Personally, I think it's a stupid rule, but it's a rule, and they should make the effort to follow it and not make the effort to eschew it.
Who is blowing it off? How are they blowing it off?
 
The only people that are talking about this are crazy people on the internet. I defy you to prove otherwise.
Well, first of all Lou Dobbs has questioned it on his show. Lynn Cheney, in an interview with Larry King, suggested that while she believed he was a citizen, there was certainly "a great deal of suspicion" which gave credibility to doubters. And some Republican congressmen, including a few from California, have put forth a resolution demanding birth certificate identification. So no, sadly, it's not just the Internet.
 
nah, The requirement is in the Constitution, and I find it annoying and off-putting that they are just blowing it off. Personally, I think it's a stupid rule, but it's a rule, and they should make the effort to follow it and not make the effort to eschew it.
Who is blowing it off? How are they blowing it off?
refusing to release the long formspending so much money to get this thing dismissed in all the court cases letting a soldier off the hook on his duty, which allowed his suit to be dimissed
 
The only people that are talking about this are crazy people on the internet. I defy you to prove otherwise.
Well, first of all Lou Dobbs has questioned it on his show. Lynn Cheney, in an interview with Larry King, suggested that while she believed he was a citizen, there was certainly "a great deal of suspicion" which gave credibility to doubters. And some Republican congressmen, including a few from California, have put forth a resolution demanding birth certificate identification. So no, sadly, it's not just the Internet.
Are you against birth certificate identification?
 
What do you find to be a reasonable basis for concern here which has not been addressed?
Well, the part that I've seen that hasn't been addressed to my satisfaction (and I hope you'll excuse some vagueness here, since I don't have the discussions right at hand to quote from), is Obama's travel to Pakistan as a private citizen. There's some suggestion that this was at a time that US citizens weren't allowed in, which would suggest that he'd used some other travel documents. Now, of course, some places do allow dual citizenship under certain circumstances, so it may be nothing. But I don't recall seeing that addressed, even to dismiss it out of hand. :shrug: Who knows? At this point, I don't see how either side is going to settle this to the other's satisfaction.
"For starters, the Pakistan 'travel ban' is a complete fabrication based on zero evidence and completely contradicted by State Department records and a 1981 New York Times article." link
 
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The only people that are talking about this are crazy people on the internet. I defy you to prove otherwise.
Well, first of all Lou Dobbs has questioned it on his show. Lynn Cheney, in an interview with Larry King, suggested that while she believed he was a citizen, there was certainly "a great deal of suspicion" which gave credibility to doubters. And some Republican congressmen, including a few from California, have put forth a resolution demanding birth certificate identification. So no, sadly, it's not just the Internet.
Lou Dobbs? Lynn Cheney? I have no idea who these people are.
 
Jon Stewart said it about as well as it can be said. The Ockham's Razor bit (Kenyan Destroy America from the Inside Scam) was priceless.[sarcasm] I'm still waiting for Barack Obama to produce iron-clad paperwork PROVING that he's not a secret America-hating Muslim as well...not to mention DNA analysis PROVING that the man is black. <_< [/sarcasm]

:tinfoilhat: If there was ever a use for that emoticon, this topic would be it.

 
nah, The requirement is in the Constitution, and I find it annoying and off-putting that they are just blowing it off. Personally, I think it's a stupid rule, but it's a rule, and they should make the effort to follow it and not make the effort to eschew it.
Who is blowing it off? How are they blowing it off?
refusing to release the long formspending so much money to get this thing dismissed in all the court cases letting a soldier off the hook on his duty, which allowed his suit to be dimissed
1. You realize it's not his call to release the long form; that's up to the hospital, right? 2. I'm not sure how much money was spent to get the court cases dismissed; whatever amount it was, it was forced on him by the ones who filed these ridiculous suits. If I were the judge involved, I would have dismissed it immediately.3. I think if the soldier refused to go to Afghanistan after volunteering, he should be court-martialed. But I don't know the details of this.
 
The only people that are talking about this are crazy people on the internet. I defy you to prove otherwise.
Well, first of all Lou Dobbs has questioned it on his show. Lynn Cheney, in an interview with Larry King, suggested that while she believed he was a citizen, there was certainly "a great deal of suspicion" which gave credibility to doubters. And some Republican congressmen, including a few from California, have put forth a resolution demanding birth certificate identification. So no, sadly, it's not just the Internet.
Are you against birth certificate identification?
Yes I am. I believe we should simply take people's word for it. That way, my scheme of achieving a one world government controlled by the United Nations will be that much closer to fruition.
 
There always seems to be a fringe movement out there. When Clinton was President, it was the Vince Foster crowd. For most of Bush's term in office, it was the 9/11 Truther people. Now it's these Birther people. It doesn't seem to matter whether it's from the Left or the Right, these people always seem to be present and rather loud.
So how do you feel about British, Australian and Mexican troops running training missions on US soil?
I think it's part of the overall plan to turn the government of this country over to the United Nations. So?
I was serious. National Level Exercise 2009 (NLE 09)
Are we going into battle with them in the same vicinity? Might be a damned fine idea to have them and us on the same page.
Against whom?
 
bueno said:
And besides, conspiracy theorists may be a little, um, enthusiastic; but they don't generate lingering questions out of whole cloth. In this case, they have several bases for their questions, some of which have been addressed and some of which haven't. That's why it's still hanging around.
What do you find to be a reasonable basis for concern here which has not been addressed?
How about "what passport did Obama use when he visitied Pakistan?"
Hmmm. That's a tough one. I'm going to go with his AMERICAN passport. What do I win?
 
The only people that are talking about this are crazy people on the internet. I defy you to prove otherwise.
Well, first of all Lou Dobbs has questioned it on his show. Lynn Cheney, in an interview with Larry King, suggested that while she believed he was a citizen, there was certainly "a great deal of suspicion" which gave credibility to doubters. And some Republican congressmen, including a few from California, have put forth a resolution demanding birth certificate identification. So no, sadly, it's not just the Internet.
Are you against birth certificate identification?
Yes I am. I believe we should simply take people's word for it. That way, my scheme of achieving a one world government controlled by the United Nations will be that much closer to fruition.
By your sarcasm I am assuming that you agree with the reolution?
 
The only people that are talking about this are crazy people on the internet. I defy you to prove otherwise.
Well, first of all Lou Dobbs has questioned it on his show. Lynn Cheney, in an interview with Larry King, suggested that while she believed he was a citizen, there was certainly "a great deal of suspicion" which gave credibility to doubters. And some Republican congressmen, including a few from California, have put forth a resolution demanding birth certificate identification. So no, sadly, it's not just the Internet.
Are you against birth certificate identification?
Yes I am. I believe we should simply take people's word for it. That way, my scheme of achieving a one world government controlled by the United Nations will be that much closer to fruition.
By your sarcasm I am assuming that you agree with the reolution?
Uh, no. I think a short form birth certificate plus other evidence like newspapers announcing your birth is reasonable evidence for people who are reasonable. For people who are not reasonable, there is no evidence that would be.
 
The only people that are talking about this are crazy people on the internet. I defy you to prove otherwise.
Well, first of all Lou Dobbs has questioned it on his show. Lynn Cheney, in an interview with Larry King, suggested that while she believed he was a citizen, there was certainly "a great deal of suspicion" which gave credibility to doubters. And some Republican congressmen, including a few from California, have put forth a resolution demanding birth certificate identification. So no, sadly, it's not just the Internet.
Lou Dobbs? Lynn Cheney? I have no idea who these people are.
Are you new here? Live in a cave for the past 8-10 years?
 
nah, The requirement is in the Constitution, and I find it annoying and off-putting that they are just blowing it off. Personally, I think it's a stupid rule, but it's a rule, and they should make the effort to follow it and not make the effort to eschew it.
Who is blowing it off? How are they blowing it off?
refusing to release the long formspending so much money to get this thing dismissed in all the court cases letting a soldier off the hook on his duty, which allowed his suit to be dimissed
1. You realize it's not his call to release the long form; that's up to the hospital, right? 2. I'm not sure how much money was spent to get the court cases dismissed; whatever amount it was, it was forced on him by the ones who filed these ridiculous suits. If I were the judge involved, I would have dismissed it immediately.3. I think if the soldier refused to go to Afghanistan after volunteering, he should be court-martialed. But I don't know the details of this.
1. big fat wrong on that one2. over a million when it have cost about under 30 bucks to proiduce the document for the naysayers.3. He refused his orders on the basis that he was unsure if they were Obama was legally binding as the President. his orders were revoked, and based on his deployment being revoked, his suit was dismissed.3.
 

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