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*** Official Lost Season 6 *** (2 Viewers)

THEORY! Jacob was the Fisher King. Smokey was his knight. Smokey became disenchanted, neglected his duties, wanted out, conspired to kill the Fisher King to earn that freedom.
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kind of a cool theory (cut and paste from that super long article above).
 
SmoovySmoov said:
Going on record here as saying that I disagree with those of you in the "bad writing" camp. In fact, I think it's borderline genius writing. I can't recall any other TV show that has this many influences (Christian theology, Egyptian hieroglyphics, literary allusions, episodes from various seasons mirroring each other, scientific theory, etc.). To not like where it's going is one thing. To continually harp on "bad writing" is just daft.
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I agree, whether you like the direction is taking is one thing, but to say it's poor writing is disingenuous.
 
SmoovySmoov said:
Going on record here as saying that I disagree with those of you in the "bad writing" camp. In fact, I think it's borderline genius writing. I can't recall any other TV show that has this many influences (Christian theology, Egyptian hieroglyphics, literary allusions, episodes from various seasons mirroring each other, scientific theory, etc.). To not like where it's going is one thing. To continually harp on "bad writing" is just daft.
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But, but, but, I don't like where it's going so the writing must suck! :goodposting: I agree with you, man. I'll be call a fan-boy or whatever else, but I don't care. The people who aren't liking the show are really taking this personally. I don't get it.
 
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Sack-Religious said:
SmoovySmoov said:
Going on record here as saying that I disagree with those of you in the "bad writing" camp. In fact, I think it's borderline genius writing. I can't recall any other TV show that has this many influences (Christian theology, Egyptian hieroglyphics, literary allusions, episodes from various seasons mirroring each other, scientific theory, etc.). To not like where it's going is one thing. To continually harp on "bad writing" is just daft.
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But, but, but, I don't like where it's going so the writing must suck! :thumbup: I agree with you, man. I'll be call a fan-boy or whatever else, but I don't care. The people who aren't liking the show are really taking this personally. I don't get it.
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There is nothing wrong with being a fan boy. I love the show and wish I could remember all of the stuff you guys do. I just dont have the time to look stuff up on the Internet and watch episodes again with pop ups even with my DVR.I am not giving up on the show, but it does seem (to me at least), that the writers have not been honest with anyone. They said they have a plan. I do not believe this is where they saw the show going 5 or 6 years ago. Thats just my opinion. I hope these last 8 episodes prove me wrong. I really do, because for 5 years, this was the best show on TV
 
JerseyToughGuys said:
Any evidence of the smoke monster pre-1977?I don't recall, but I don't think so.
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We haven't seen an actual "attack" but there have been at least a few references. Just going of my Lost :lmao: memory, but:In the chamber beneath the temple, there's a vent with a carving of Smokey on it.Pierre Chang in an orientation video mentioned that the sonic fence at New Otherton was to protect DHARMA from the island's "wildlife" or something to that effect.When Richard visited John Locke as a child, Locke drew a picture of something that looked a lot like Smokey.
 
AcerFC said:
Sack-Religious said:
SmoovySmoov said:
Going on record here as saying that I disagree with those of you in the "bad writing" camp. In fact, I think it's borderline genius writing. I can't recall any other TV show that has this many influences (Christian theology, Egyptian hieroglyphics, literary allusions, episodes from various seasons mirroring each other, scientific theory, etc.). To not like where it's going is one thing. To continually harp on "bad writing" is just daft.
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But, but, but, I don't like where it's going so the writing must suck! :) I agree with you, man. I'll be call a fan-boy or whatever else, but I don't care. The people who aren't liking the show are really taking this personally. I don't get it.
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There is nothing wrong with being a fan boy. I love the show and wish I could remember all of the stuff you guys do. I just dont have the time to look stuff up on the Internet and watch episodes again with pop ups even with my DVR.I am not giving up on the show, but it does seem (to me at least), that the writers have not been honest with anyone. They said they have a plan. I do not believe this is where they saw the show going 5 or 6 years ago. Thats just my opinion. I hope these last 8 episodes prove me wrong. I really do, because for 5 years, this was the best show on TV
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Exactly...wait for the last 8 episodes. I don't understand how people are thinking the past seasons substories about the babies, and time travel and such...won't be addressed.....how do you know those seasons meant nothing yet? Give the show a chance to tie it all up...then form an opinion.
 
kupcho1 said:
The Dude said:
And, kupcho, you are welcome to enlighten us with your superior understanding of the show. And as to your advice to watch the pop-ups - it's funny that you think pop-ups should compensate for good writing.
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The writing is fine. Some people's comprehension skills ... not quite as good. That's where the pop-ups come in handy :goodposting:And as already mentioned by someone else, nothing regarding Widmore on the island has changed. The island story/timeline post jughead detonation is as if the explosion did not have an impact (no pun intended). The side stories play out as if the detonation changed lives (but not the basic character of the individual).Helpful?
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I understand what you are stating - but I think the limits on your statement are in regards to those physically on the island - which does not include Widmore.Apparently, post-Jughead Ben wasn't there to usurp Widmore. That's the core of the argument. So did Ben usurp Widmore or not? And if so, how?
 
The Dude said:
I understand what you are stating - but I think the limits on your statement are in regards to those physically on the island - which does not include Widmore.Apparently, post-Jughead Ben wasn't there to usurp Widmore. That's the core of the argument. So did Ben usurp Widmore or not? And if so, how?
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I'm going to quote an earlier post of mine to you in response to you Widmore/Men analysis. If I'm understanding you correctly, I think your process is deeply flawed.
Sack-Religious said:
The Dude said:
Here's something somewhat worthwhile to discuss. I think the writers are allowing themselves a way out by not acknowledging the sideways are the revised timelines from Jughead, it only makes sense that this is the case - otherwise it's a complete waste of time but the writers - which I am beginning to believe they are not above. So if the sideways is the revised timeline than Ben left the island as a child and never usurped power from Widmore. Widmore was not outcasted by Ben. So what's Widmore's deal now? IMO, the story is flawed under scrutiny.
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We've been told to be patient to see what happens with the sideways, so speculating on what they may, or may not, be is kinda pointless right now.You're confusing the sideways with the current island. Sideways Ben would have never been there to boot Widmore off the island, so you're correct there. But, this is where I think you're confused. Widmore's return to the island, as we saw this week, wasn't a sideways story. It's congruent with the "current" 2008 island timeline (and its past) that had Ben take control from Widmore and banish him.
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Sack-Religious said:
We've been told to be patient to see what happens with the sideways, so speculating on what they may, or may not, be is kinda pointless right now.You're confusing the sideways with the current island. Sideways Ben would have never been there to boot Widmore off the island, so you're correct there. But, this is where I think you're confused. Widmore's return to the island, as we saw this week, wasn't a sideways story. It's congruent with the "current" 2008 island timeline (and its past) that had Ben take control from Widmore and banish him.
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I understand what you are stating but I do not believe my thoughts are flawed. The part that I can't aruge with is your first statement - if you are conceding that the sideways may mean absolutely nothing - then I have no argument. I think i qualified my point was based on the sideways being real non crash variations of the 815ers.I think Jack's pre-crash life changing would indicate the sideways is real - it does not confirm it though.Again, my point is that if the sideways are real than the story elements - like Widmore's motivation - are up for grabs and flaws the show and the writing.Sidebar - I think any type of explanation about the sideways other than being real would be a cop out by the writers - but we'll see if they can explain it satsifactorily. I would think anyone would be dissatisified with the sideways if they were irrelevant.
 
The Dude said:
I understand what you are stating but I do not believe my thoughts are flawed. The part that I can't aruge with is your first statement - if you are conceding that the sideways may mean absolutely nothing - then I have no argument. I think i qualified my point was based on the sideways being real non crash variations of the 815ers.I think Jack's pre-crash life changing would indicate the sideways is real - it does not confirm it though.Again, my point is that if the sideways are real than the story elements - like Widmore's motivation - are up for grabs and flaws the show and the writing.Sidebar - I think any type of explanation about the sideways other than being real would be a cop out by the writers - but we'll see if they can explain it satsifactorily. I would think anyone would be dissatisified with the sideways if they were irrelevant.
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I still don't think we're understanding each other. I'm not saying the sideways mean nothing, I'm saying they need to be viewed as seperate from the current time on the island. Both lines are "real," but they are most definitely seperate and if you're telling yourself that they absolutely MUST come together at some point, I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment. I'm as guilty as the next guy, probably even moreso, at coming up with theories, but marrying yourself to a particular theory about what the sideways could, or could not be, right now is probably the worst thing we can do.Which, of course, brings me to my personal view is that the Sideways stuff is how life would have turned out should Jughead have "detonated," thus the "reset." from 1977 onward. Therefore Jack is off-island with a kid, Hurley's lucky, Sawyer's a cop, Ben was on the island, left, now has a PHD and is a teacher, etc. There are minor and sometimes major differences in the characters lives, but the fundamental nature of their character is the same. It doesn't make what happened in the first 5 seasons on and off the island any more, or less valid. Whatever happened, happened. OK, that kind of handles the sideways stuff.Let's go back to the island. Lots of stuff has happened there, obviously. The most recent "big" thing being Juliet pounding the core of Jughead with a rock until it appeared to explode. Whatever happened when Juliet hit Jughead with the rock, did one thing we can be certain of and that is it brought the folks who were in 1977 to 2007/08. There is now only one on-island timeline, rather than the 1977 with Sawyer, Kate, Jack, etc. in DHARMA, and 2007/08 time Sun, Lapidus, Ben, Ilana, etc. who actually crashed with the Ajira plane we saw last season.Just because whatever happened with Jughead happened, it doesn't mean that past events on the island didn't happen. Ben got rid of Widmore before 1977 and therefore Widmore's interest/reasons in getting back to the island would be the same as they were when he sent the freighter with Naomi, Keamy, Faraday, Charlotte, etc.Just because Ben got off the island in his sideways doesn't make what happened to him and everything else he did in the non-sideways any less "real."
 
Sack-Religious said:
The Dude said:
I understand what you are stating but I do not believe my thoughts are flawed. The part that I can't aruge with is your first statement - if you are conceding that the sideways may mean absolutely nothing - then I have no argument. I think i qualified my point was based on the sideways being real non crash variations of the 815ers.I think Jack's pre-crash life changing would indicate the sideways is real - it does not confirm it though.Again, my point is that if the sideways are real than the story elements - like Widmore's motivation - are up for grabs and flaws the show and the writing.Sidebar - I think any type of explanation about the sideways other than being real would be a cop out by the writers - but we'll see if they can explain it satsifactorily. I would think anyone would be dissatisified with the sideways if they were irrelevant.
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I still don't think we're understanding each other. I'm not saying the sideways mean nothing, I'm saying they need to be viewed as seperate from the current time on the island. Both lines are "real," but they are most definitely seperate and if you're telling yourself that they absolutely MUST come together at some point, I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment. I'm as guilty as the next guy, probably even moreso, at coming up with theories, but marrying yourself to a particular theory about what the sideways could, or could not be, right now is probably the worst thing we can do.Which, of course, brings me to my personal view is that the Sideways stuff is how life would have turned out should Jughead have "detonated," thus the "reset." from 1977 onward. Therefore Jack is off-island with a kid, Hurley's lucky, Sawyer's a cop, Ben was on the island, left, now has a PHD and is a teacher, etc. There are minor and sometimes major differences in the characters lives, but the fundamental nature of their character is the same. It doesn't make what happened in the first 5 seasons on and off the island any more, or less valid. Whatever happened, happened. OK, that kind of handles the sideways stuff.Let's go back to the island. Lots of stuff has happened there, obviously. The most recent "big" thing being Juliet pounding the core of Jughead with a rock until it appeared to explode. Whatever happened when Juliet hit Jughead with the rock, did one thing we can be certain of and that is it brought the folks who were in 1977 to 2007/08. There is now only one on-island timeline, rather than the 1977 with Sawyer, Kate, Jack, etc. in DHARMA, and 2007/08 time Sun, Lapidus, Ben, Ilana, etc. who actually crashed with the Ajira plane we saw last season.Just because whatever happened with Jughead happened, it doesn't mean that past events on the island didn't happen. Ben got rid of Widmore before 1977 and therefore Widmore's interest/reasons in getting back to the island would be the same as they were when he sent the freighter with Naomi, Keamy, Faraday, Charlotte, etc.Just because Ben got off the island in his sideways doesn't make what happened to him and everything else he did in the non-sideways any less "real."
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You sure Ben got rid of Widmore before 1977?
 
Harry Manback said:
You sure Ben got rid of Widmore before 1977?
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Actually, I'm not and I meant to edit, but got called into a meeting. :hifive:I still don't think it matters when Ben ousted Widmore, if we're going on the "whatever happened, happened" premise the show has drilled into us, though. Like I said, the only thing we know for sure that happened when Juliet hit Jughead is that the 1977 and 2007/08 timelines got smashed back together. I know I threw my own theory in there, but subscribing to anything other than what he know for sure probably isn't the best course to take.
 
I've been vocal about saying that this show has gotten too strange, and that this season is going to decide if this is one of the great shows ever or worst ever.

So I'm surprised that I'm one of the few people here who thought that this was a very good episode. I thought we got some good information, and moved the plot forward substantially. The arrival of Widmore, the fact that Widmore seems to know who they all are, the fact that NotLocke seems to know that Widmore is there, the setup of upcoming conflict (although there's no guarantee that they are actually going to fight - I don't know why we should assume Widmore will fight the smoke thing), more setup of Kate vs Claire, but the other way around, the revalation that the smoke monster is an actual dude, and the idea that he had a mother who was crazy, which does fit the farraday/hawking thing well, the idea that the others who followed locke werent just blind followers and wanted to know what happened to their peers, the idea that Sayid is starting to fade, the sideways examination of sawyer as someone who will be a good guy or a bad guy if he thinks it helps him, and more - all of those things were good.

I think the show is picking up steam, personally. Which is good, because I was frustrated with some of the earlier episodes.

 
Sack-Religious said:
Harry Manback said:
You sure Ben got rid of Widmore before 1977?
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Actually, I'm not and I meant to edit, but got called into a meeting. :goodposting:I still don't think it matters when Ben ousted Widmore, if we're going on the "whatever happened, happened" premise the show has drilled into us, though. Like I said, the only thing we know for sure that happened when Juliet hit Jughead is that the 1977 and 2007/08 timelines got smashed back together. I know I threw my own theory in there, but subscribing to anything other than what he know for sure probably isn't the best course to take.
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Agreed.I'd assume (watch out now!) that Widmore is a very different individual having not been ousted (if that's the case) and am VERY interested in seeing what happened to Desmond and Penny. I hope we get that closure.
 
Harry Manback said:
Sack-Religious said:
Harry Manback said:
You sure Ben got rid of Widmore before 1977?
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Actually, I'm not and I meant to edit, but got called into a meeting. :bowtie:I still don't think it matters when Ben ousted Widmore, if we're going on the "whatever happened, happened" premise the show has drilled into us, though. Like I said, the only thing we know for sure that happened when Juliet hit Jughead is that the 1977 and 2007/08 timelines got smashed back together. I know I threw my own theory in there, but subscribing to anything other than what he know for sure probably isn't the best course to take.
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Agreed.I'd assume (watch out now!) that Widmore is a very different individual having not been ousted (if that's the case) and am VERY interested in seeing what happened to Desmond and Penny. I hope we get that closure.
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I'll post a response to Sack later as that might take longer (thanks for the thought out response though).Manback is getting to my point. Becasue of the path the writers have taken, Widmore may be a completely different person with entirely different motivations. I believe the writers are going to stick to what they have laid out for him but they have undermined their own work by potentially stating many things did not occur.
 
The Dude said:
Becasue of the path the writers have taken, Widmore may be a completely different person with entirely different motivations.
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:confused: Did I miss a side story somewhere? Because the only timeline Widmore's appeared in has him looking to retake the island.
 
Here is a thought:

The blond kid we saw running through the forest is Charlie... Penny and Desmond's kid.

Maybe NotLocke does not want to leave the island entirely but maybe he was banished from the island where the Hydra station is and simply wants to get back there for whatever reason. The wheel to move the island is on the main island so maybe the Hydra island is NotLocke's home.

 
Mario Kart said:
Here is a thought:The blond kid we saw running through the forest is Charlie... Penny and Desmond's kid.Maybe NotLocke does not want to leave the island entirely but maybe he was banished from the island where the Hydra station is and simply wants to get back there for whatever reason. The wheel to move the island is on the main island so maybe the Hydra island is NotLocke's home.
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Smokey started manifesting as Locke on the Hydra Island. Unless Jacob dying bound him to the main island (which I very much doubt), Locke just didn't want to go to Hydra Island at this time, he wasn't barred from it.
 
SmoovySmoov said:
Going on record here as saying that I disagree with those of you in the "bad writing" camp. In fact, I think it's borderline genius writing. I can't recall any other TV show that has this many influences (Christian theology, Egyptian hieroglyphics, literary allusions, episodes from various seasons mirroring each other, scientific theory, etc.). To not like where it's going is one thing. To continually harp on "bad writing" is just daft.
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We have different views on what good and bad writing is. Good writing to me is not how many influences you can weave into the tapestry of your story. Good writing to me is creating characters I care about. Good writing is creating obstacles worthy of the protagonists. Good writing is having your characters act in believable ways.Honestly the biggest problem I have with the writing revolves around Benjamin Linus. He's murdered a bunch of people now. He's a psychopath. I simply cannot accept that everyone else would be so willing to work with him. At the very least, almost everyone should be terrified of the guy. The women should fear for their lives around him. That would be believable. He's truly creepy. I'm supposed to believe that he helps Michael murder Anna Lucia and Libby, and Jack's response is to work with him. I can't believe that. People don't act that way.

 
The only believable action at this point is if Benjamin Linus is kill-on-sight. He's just a murderer.

 
Sack-Religious said:
I still don't think we're understanding each other. I'm not saying the sideways mean nothing, I'm saying they need to be viewed as seperate from the current time on the island. Both lines are "real," but they are most definitely seperate and if you're telling yourself that they absolutely MUST come together at some point, I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment. I'm as guilty as the next guy, probably even moreso, at coming up with theories, but marrying yourself to a particular theory about what the sideways could, or could not be, right now is probably the worst thing we can do.Which, of course, brings me to my personal view is that the Sideways stuff is how life would have turned out should Jughead have "detonated," thus the "reset." from 1977 onward. Therefore Jack is off-island with a kid, Hurley's lucky, Sawyer's a cop, Ben was on the island, left, now has a PHD and is a teacher, etc. There are minor and sometimes major differences in the characters lives, but the fundamental nature of their character is the same. It doesn't make what happened in the first 5 seasons on and off the island any more, or less valid. Whatever happened, happened. OK, that kind of handles the sideways stuff.Let's go back to the island. Lots of stuff has happened there, obviously. The most recent "big" thing being Juliet pounding the core of Jughead with a rock until it appeared to explode. Whatever happened when Juliet hit Jughead with the rock, did one thing we can be certain of and that is it brought the folks who were in 1977 to 2007/08. There is now only one on-island timeline, rather than the 1977 with Sawyer, Kate, Jack, etc. in DHARMA, and 2007/08 time Sun, Lapidus, Ben, Ilana, etc. who actually crashed with the Ajira plane we saw last season.Just because whatever happened with Jughead happened, it doesn't mean that past events on the island didn't happen. Ben got rid of Widmore before 1977 and therefore Widmore's interest/reasons in getting back to the island would be the same as they were when he sent the freighter with Naomi, Keamy, Faraday, Charlotte, etc.Just because Ben got off the island in his sideways doesn't make what happened to him and everything else he did in the non-sideways any less "real."
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Again, thanks for a literate response rather than the "hate the non-fanboy approach." People tend to view my posts as trolling but I am open to discussing the show.I guess I am not marrying myself to the idea that the sideways are real but unless there is a very good reason for them - like being real - I think the inclusion of them would be a cop out. Along the lines of "we had to do some to fill up 15 shows (whatever)."Not sure on that last sentence. If he got off the island which prevented his conflict with Widmore and he was on the island to conflict Widmore - I would say that's a heck of conundrum (I can't remeber the word that I want to use). And it's one that is being hidden behing "whatever happened happened."
 
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SmoovySmoov said:
beer 30 said:
why was Myles checking up on his partner Sawyer?
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Because he could tell he was lying to him.
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It just seemed odd to me that his partner would go to the lengths of pulling credit card receipts to try to track down where he was. I got the sense that there was more to his not trusting Sawyer than what we saw. Kinda like if an alcoholic that gets clean and then relapses but tries to cover it up gets caught by someone he trusts.Just seemed odd to me that the first thing Miles does is pull a credit report on his partner :shrug:
 
The Dude said:
Again, thanks for a literate response rather than the "hate the non-fanboy approach." People tend to view my posts as trolling but I am open to discussing the show.

I guess I am not marrying myself to the idea that the sideways are real but unless there is a very good reason for them - like being real - I think the inclusion of them would be a cop out. Along the lines of "we had to do some to fill up 15 shows (whatever)."

Not sure on that last sentence. If he got off the island which prevented his conflict with Widmore and he was on the island to conflict Widmore - I would say that's a heck of conundrum (I can't remeber the word that I want to use).

And it's one that is being hidden behing "whatever happened happened."
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I'm more than willing to discuss the show, as well, and thanks for not just blindly calling me a fanboy. But, dead honest, some of your posts come across and trolling. You may not mean it that way, but that's how they come across. I'm past that now, though.You probably don't put much stock in what Cuse and Lindelof have to say, but I'm going to copy and paste parts of an interview with them. This was done right after the season premiere this year. You can read the entire article/interview here. I hope it's helpful to you, and anyone else, for that matter. I've bolded key parts, but the entire thing should pretty much be required reading, IMO.

EW: The whole idea of flash-sideways and the plan to use season 6 to show us a world where Oceanic 815 never crashed — how long has that been in the works? Why did you want to do it?

DAMON LINDELOF: It’s been in play for at least a couple of years. We knew that the ending of the time travel season was going to be an attempt to reboot. And as a result, we [knew] the audience was going to come out of the “do-over moment” thinking we were either going start over or just say it didn’t work and continue on. [We thought] wouldn’t it be great if we did both? That was the origin of the story.

CARLTON CUSE: We thought just doing one [of those options] would inherently not be satisfying. Since the very beginning of the show, characters started crossing through each other’s stories. Part of our desire [in season 6] is to show that there’s still this kind of weave, that these characters still would have impacted each other’s lives even without the event of crashing on the Island. Obviously, the big question of the season is going to be: How do these [two timelines] reconcile? However, for the fans who have not watched the show closely, that’s an intact narrative. You can just watch the flash sideways — they stand alone all by themselves. For the fans who are more deeply embedded in the show, you can watch those flash sideways, compare them to what transpired in the flashbacks and go, “Oh, that’s an interesting difference.”

LINDELOF: Right out of the gate, in the first five minutes of the premiere, you get hit over the head with two things that you’re not expecting. The first is that Desmond is on the plane. The second thing that we do is we drop out of the plane and we go below the water and we see that the Island is submerged. What we’re trying to do there is basically say to you, “God bless the survivors of Oceanic 815, because they’re so self-centered, they thought the only effect [of detonating the bomb] was going to be that their plane never crashes.” But they don’t stop to think, “If we do this in 1977, what else is going to affected by this?” So that their entire lives can be changed radically. In fact, it would appear that they’ve sunken the Island. That’s our way of saying, “Keep your eyes peeled for the differences that you’re not expecting.” Some of these characters were still in Australia, but some weren’t. Shannon’s not there. Boone actually says that he tried to get her back. There are all sorts of other people that we don’t see. Where’s Libby? Where’s Ana Lucia? Where’s Eko? These are all the things that you’re supposed to be thinking about. When our characters posited the “What if?” scenario, they neglected to think about what the other effects of potentially changing time might be and we’re embracing those things.

EW: That said, are you saying definitively that detonating Jughead was the event that created this new timeline? Or is that a mystery which the season 6 story will reveal?

LINDELOF: It’s a mystery. A big one.

CUSE: We did have some concern that it might be confusing kind of going into the season. To clear that up a little bit: The archetypes of the characters are the same and that’s the most significant thing. Kate is still a fugitive. If you were to look at the Comic-Con video, for instance, that now comes into play. There was a different scenario in that story. She basically blew up an apprentice plumber as opposed to killing her biological father/stepfather. Those kind of differences exist, but who the characters fundamentally are is the same. If it becomes too confusing for you, you can just follow the flash sideways for what they are. It’s not as though there’s narrative that hangs on the fact that you need to know that this event was different in that world, in the flashback world versus the sideways world. That’s not critical for being able to process the narrative this season.

EW: Is there a relationship between Island reality and sideways reality? Will they run parallel for the remainder of the season? Will they fuse together? Might one fade away?

LINDELOF: For us, the big risk that we’re taking in the final season of the show is basically this very question. [Lindelof then explains the show has replaced the trademark “whoosh!” sound effect marking the segue between Island present story and flashbacks or flash-forwards, thus calling conspicuous attention to the relationship between the Island world and the Sideways world.] This is the critical mystery of the season, which is, “What is the relationship between these two shows?” And we don’t use the phrase “alternate reality,” because to call one of them an “alternate reality” is to infer that one of them isn’t real, or one of them is real and the other is the alternate to being real.

CUSE: But the questions you’re asking are exactly the right questions. What are we to make of the fact that they’re showing us two different timelines? Are they going to resolve? Are they going to connect? Are they going to co-exist in parallel fashion? Are they going to cross? Do they intersect? Does one prove to be viable and the other one not? I think those are all the kind of speculations that are the right speculations to be having at this point in the season.

LINDELOF: But it is going to require patience. We’ve taught the audience how to be patient thus far, so while they’re getting a lot of mythological answers on the island early in the season, this idea of what is the relationship between the two [worlds] is a little bit more of a slow burn.
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Sack-Religious said:
LINDELOF: Right out of the gate, in the first five minutes of the premiere, you get hit over the head with two things that you’re not expecting. The first is that Desmond is on the plane. The second thing that we do is we drop out of the plane and we go below the water and we see that the Island is submerged. What we’re trying to do there is basically say to you, “God bless the survivors of Oceanic 815, because they’re so self-centered, they thought the only effect [of detonating the bomb] was going to be that their plane never crashes.” But they don’t stop to think, “If we do this in 1977, what else is going to affected by this?” So that their entire lives can be changed radically. In fact, it would appear that they’ve sunken the Island. That’s our way of saying, “Keep your eyes peeled for the differences that you’re not expecting.” Some of these characters were still in Australia, but some weren’t. Shannon’s not there. Boone actually says that he tried to get her back. There are all sorts of other people that we don’t see. Where’s Libby? Where’s Ana Lucia? Where’s Eko? These are all the things that you’re supposed to be thinking about. When our characters posited the “What if?” scenario, they neglected to think about what the other effects of potentially changing time might be and we’re embracing those things.
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I think this is the part that upsets me. If you are going to essentially say that jughead worked and the island was sunk, why play the charade out? I would have actually been OK with the last scene of the series showing Juliet blowing the island up and then having the plane (as is, not changed because events changed) in 2004 landing in LAX.I know this can be debated at length with no definitive answer, but how does a bomb going off in a remote island that no one knows about affect people like Sayid, Locke and Jack. I can understand it affecting Widmore, Ben, Desmond and Penny, but I fail to see how it changes the lives of some of the others to the extent that it did (or appears to have based on sideways)
 
AcerFC said:
Sack-Religious said:
LINDELOF: Right out of the gate, in the first five minutes of the premiere, you get hit over the head with two things that you’re not expecting. The first is that Desmond is on the plane. The second thing that we do is we drop out of the plane and we go below the water and we see that the Island is submerged. What we’re trying to do there is basically say to you, “God bless the survivors of Oceanic 815, because they’re so self-centered, they thought the only effect [of detonating the bomb] was going to be that their plane never crashes.” But they don’t stop to think, “If we do this in 1977, what else is going to affected by this?” So that their entire lives can be changed radically. In fact, it would appear that they’ve sunken the Island. That’s our way of saying, “Keep your eyes peeled for the differences that you’re not expecting.” Some of these characters were still in Australia, but some weren’t. Shannon’s not there. Boone actually says that he tried to get her back. There are all sorts of other people that we don’t see. Where’s Libby? Where’s Ana Lucia? Where’s Eko? These are all the things that you’re supposed to be thinking about. When our characters posited the “What if?” scenario, they neglected to think about what the other effects of potentially changing time might be and we’re embracing those things.
Click to expand...
I think this is the part that upsets me. If you are going to essentially say that jughead worked and the island was sunk, why play the charade out? I would have actually been OK with the last scene of the series showing Juliet blowing the island up and then having the plane (as is, not changed because events changed) in 2004 landing in LAX.I know this can be debated at length with no definitive answer, but how does a bomb going off in a remote island that no one knows about affect people like Sayid, Locke and Jack. I can understand it affecting Widmore, Ben, Desmond and Penny, but I fail to see how it changes the lives of some of the others to the extent that it did (or appears to have based on sideways)
Click to expand...
Do you believe that a single butterfly in China flapping it's wings can cause a tornado in the US?Small, seemingly minor actions have the potential for drastic changes.Hitler was a struggling art student, shunned by the school he turned to anti-semitism (more or less). What if a teacher had shown a single act of compassion and encouraged him to keep with it, perhaps WWII would never have happened, I'd say that would change quite a few peoples lives, and it would all be do to a simple action.
 
Harry Manback said:
AcerFC said:
Sack-Religious said:
LINDELOF: Right out of the gate, in the first five minutes of the premiere, you get hit over the head with two things that you’re not expecting. The first is that Desmond is on the plane. The second thing that we do is we drop out of the plane and we go below the water and we see that the Island is submerged. What we’re trying to do there is basically say to you, “God bless the survivors of Oceanic 815, because they’re so self-centered, they thought the only effect [of detonating the bomb] was going to be that their plane never crashes.” But they don’t stop to think, “If we do this in 1977, what else is going to affected by this?” So that their entire lives can be changed radically. In fact, it would appear that they’ve sunken the Island. That’s our way of saying, “Keep your eyes peeled for the differences that you’re not expecting.” Some of these characters were still in Australia, but some weren’t. Shannon’s not there. Boone actually says that he tried to get her back. There are all sorts of other people that we don’t see. Where’s Libby? Where’s Ana Lucia? Where’s Eko? These are all the things that you’re supposed to be thinking about. When our characters posited the “What if?” scenario, they neglected to think about what the other effects of potentially changing time might be and we’re embracing those things.
Click to expand...
I think this is the part that upsets me. If you are going to essentially say that jughead worked and the island was sunk, why play the charade out? I would have actually been OK with the last scene of the series showing Juliet blowing the island up and then having the plane (as is, not changed because events changed) in 2004 landing in LAX.I know this can be debated at length with no definitive answer, but how does a bomb going off in a remote island that no one knows about affect people like Sayid, Locke and Jack. I can understand it affecting Widmore, Ben, Desmond and Penny, but I fail to see how it changes the lives of some of the others to the extent that it did (or appears to have based on sideways)
Click to expand...
Do you believe that a single butterfly in China flapping it's wings can cause a tornado in the US?Small, seemingly minor actions have the potential for drastic changes.Hitler was a struggling art student, shunned by the school he turned to anti-semitism (more or less). What if a teacher had shown a single act of compassion and encouraged him to keep with it, perhaps WWII would never have happened, I'd say that would change quite a few peoples lives, and it would all be do to a simple action.
Click to expand...
you could be right. :link:
 
I liked the episode and learned a few things too:

Chicks should (almost) always have long hair and wear it down. Charlotte looked pretty damn good!

Sawyer is a great character. He can be a bad ### and be the watching Little House on the Prairie dude too.

The real Sawyer from the beginning is back. He wants off the island and he wants Kate too. He even returned to calling her Freckles.

 
from people.com

Little Scoop: Like all things Lost, there’s likely much significance to the Little House clip producers chose to include while Sawyer ate his microwavable dinner. But its inclusion was also a nice nod to Holloway’s own past: Before Lost, the actor had auditioned for the Pa Ingalls role in a proposed Little House remake and was so crushed when he didn’t get it that he nearly stopped acting. The Lost producers are thankful he stuck with it. “One of the problems with television is that it’s difficult for actors to bring something new to the same role, especially when they’ve been playing it for six years,” says executive producer Damon Lindelof. “With Josh, it feels like he’s bringing something new constantly, and the work he’s doing leading up to the end of the series is unbelievable.”
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:no:
 
jestertj said:
I liked the episode and learned a few things too:Chicks should (almost) always have long hair and wear it down. Charlotte looked pretty damn good!Sawyer is a great character. He can be a bad ### and be the watching Little House on the Prairie dude too.The real Sawyer from the beginning is back. He wants off the island and he wants Kate too. He even returned to calling her Freckles.
Click to expand...
Besides the fact that Sawyer is a sarcastic smartass, which lies near and dear to my heart, he bags all the ladies. My fiancee said something about Sawyer always having sex with everybody this past episode, and all I could really say is "Sawyer's a lady killer." Great character.
 
Was anyone else wondering why she was so frantically looking through his drawers? It was so over the top that I expected her to be part of some plot against Sawyer. The scene was poorly done if all it was is that she stumbled upon the folder on accident.

I just think she was just another nosy women.

 
Jojo the circus boy said:
Nagle2998 said:
Was anyone else wondering why she was so frantically looking through his drawers? It was so over the top that I expected her to be part of some plot against Sawyer. The scene was poorly done if all it was is that she stumbled upon the folder on accident.
Click to expand...
I just think she was just another nosy women.
Click to expand...
Didn't she ask for a T-shirt and he told her, top drawer?
Click to expand...
You're both right.
 
Jojo the circus boy said:
from people.com

Little Scoop: Like all things Lost, there's likely much significance to the Little House clip producers chose to include while Sawyer ate his microwavable dinner. But its inclusion was also a nice nod to Holloway's own past: Before Lost, the actor had auditioned for the Pa Ingalls role in a proposed Little House remake and was so crushed when he didn't get it that he nearly stopped acting. The Lost producers are thankful he stuck with it. "One of the problems with television is that it's difficult for actors to bring something new to the same role, especially when they've been playing it for six years," says executive producer Damon Lindelof. "With Josh, it feels like he's bringing something new constantly, and the work he's doing leading up to the end of the series is unbelievable."
Click to expand...
:lmao:
Click to expand...
Growing up I recall watching LHOTP and imaging Pa saying things like "hey there freckles" and "Son of a #####". I also recall some dreams about Ma that I can't post on this site.
 
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