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How do you feel about Cutler now? (current info on pg 46) (1 Viewer)

I think this year he'll move into the top 100 quarterbacks of all time in:

Touchdowns;

Passing Yards; and

Completions

Cutler currently ranks twelfth on the all-time career passing yards per game list.

Cutler currently ranks ninth on the all-time career passes completed per game list, averaging 20 completions per game. By comparison, Matt Hasselbeck and Tony Romo average 15, Vince Young averages 13 completions, and Matt Leinart and Michael Vick 12.

Not bad at Cutler's age.

 
'tenaka said:
Interesting. Orton was an average QB when with the Bears. Moves to Denver where they actually have an offensive line, some decent NFL WRs (who have actually, you know, played WR in the NFL...and even in college and stuff) - and now he's a very good QB. Cutler is a ProBowler in Denver (again, with an O-line and WRs) comes to Chicago and is "only" very good - doing his part to take them to the NFC title game.
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While Orton had a good defense in Chicago, he didn't have what Cutler had last year with Peppers added to the team. It sounds like you basically just argued that the two are interchangeable. Exactly why Cutler gets criticized.
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No, that's not what I argued at all. What I argued is that Orton "got better" by going to Denver, while Cutler "got worse" by coming to Chicago. Orton hasn't made a Pro Bowl yet. The point being that the QBs respective abilities didn't change - but their surrounding offensive cast did. Incidentally Cutler's stats as a Bear are better than Orton's - and Orton's WRs in Chicago were actually better than the one's Cutler has to throw to now.In regards to defense, the defense Orton had playing for him had Tommie Harris playing at a very high level and all of the major defensive contributers were 2-3 years younger than they are now (Briggs, Urlacher, Tillman, etc.). And let's not forget the Urlacher was out for virtually all of Cutler's first season. Is the defense better now than then? Almost definately. By the significant margin you imply? I don't think so.
Hell, let me know when Cutler is the next Eli Manning. He's an average starting NFl QB. We already had one.
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I'll take Cutler over Eli, thanks. Last season Cutler threw 16 INTs - Eli threw a league high 25. Eli was throwing to Nicks and Manningham - not a converted DB who up until a couple years ago had never played WR in his life and 2nd year 5th round pick out of Abilene Christian. IIRC, this season will be the first time in Cutler's career he has actually played under the same OC and the same offense for two years in a row. He's off to a pretty good start.If you can't see that Cutler is more talented than Orton (and Eli), I can't help you. If you expected Cutler to be Peyton Manning, than your expectations were ridiculously high. As someone who expected him to be an upgrade over Orton, and their franchise QB of the future, I am pleased with his development.ETA: I had used the word "incidentally" about 4 times. FMP.
 
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'tenaka said:
'benson_will_lead_the_way said:
'tenaka said:
'mbuehner said:
I like Cutler and think he gets some unfair criticism, morseo than your average NFL starter (some of it comes with the territory of course). Cutler is far better and more dangerous than anything the Bears had or were likely to get, so I think hating on him is pretty pointless. That being said, I don't think he'll ever be an elite QB because he throws too many dangerous passes relying on his arm strength and a great play by the receiver to bail him out... he doesn't have a great receiver and his arm strength is trumped by great DB play at this level as often as not. If he had AJ or Fitzy going after his passes he could probably get away with more- but that's irrelevant. He doesnt have those guys and he should be disciplined enough to know he doesn't and adjust accordingly. The Bears can win the majority of their games by simply not turning the ball over. Yeah- they need the offense to chip in against the real opponents, but they can do that without scoring 27 points (or trying to). I wish Cutler would just tone it down and take what is there- you don't see the great QBs trying to force those throws, they live to fight another down.
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The criticism may not be fair, in a bubble, but given the situation I feel it is justified. We gave 2 firsts, a third and a decent starting QB (one already capable of what you describe needing to above). When you pay that much for a player, expectations are high and justifiably so. At that price, he is required to be an elite QB. He isn't. So he gets criticized, and will continue to.
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NFC Championship isn't elite?
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No, having the defense and special teams carry you to the NFC championship game doesn't make you an elite QB. What a silly argument.
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Because the Packers Defense ranking 2nd in the NFL in PPG last year had nothing to do with winning the Super Bowl :rolleyes: It goes both ways, but in the end it doesn't matter to some people what Cutler accomplishes.

 
'benson_will_lead_the_way said:
'tenaka said:
'benson_will_lead_the_way said:
'tenaka said:
'mbuehner said:
I like Cutler and think he gets some unfair criticism, morseo than your average NFL starter (some of it comes with the territory of course). Cutler is far better and more dangerous than anything the Bears had or were likely to get, so I think hating on him is pretty pointless. That being said, I don't think he'll ever be an elite QB because he throws too many dangerous passes relying on his arm strength and a great play by the receiver to bail him out... he doesn't have a great receiver and his arm strength is trumped by great DB play at this level as often as not. If he had AJ or Fitzy going after his passes he could probably get away with more- but that's irrelevant. He doesnt have those guys and he should be disciplined enough to know he doesn't and adjust accordingly. The Bears can win the majority of their games by simply not turning the ball over. Yeah- they need the offense to chip in against the real opponents, but they can do that without scoring 27 points (or trying to). I wish Cutler would just tone it down and take what is there- you don't see the great QBs trying to force those throws, they live to fight another down.
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The criticism may not be fair, in a bubble, but given the situation I feel it is justified. We gave 2 firsts, a third and a decent starting QB (one already capable of what you describe needing to above). When you pay that much for a player, expectations are high and justifiably so. At that price, he is required to be an elite QB. He isn't. So he gets criticized, and will continue to.
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NFC Championship isn't elite?
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No, having the defense and special teams carry you to the NFC championship game doesn't make you an elite QB. What a silly argument.
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Because the Packers Defense ranking 2nd in the NFL in PPG last year had nothing to do with winning the Super Bowl :rolleyes: It goes both ways, but in the end it doesn't matter to some people what Cutler accomplishes.
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I love the hate dumped on him. I love the sheer disrespect the media dumps on Chicago. Stay off my bandwagon.
 
IMO Cutler had a decent game, but still needs to improve. He made some great throws but also clearly missed several receivers. He wasn't consistently putting the ball where only the receiver could make a play on it. He was lucky to only have 2 picks. He didn't seem comfortable when there was a pocket. He seldom set up and stepped into a throw, mostly relying on arm strength over mechanics. A couple times he seemed to hold the ball too long, but the telecast didn't show the downfield coverage so maybe there was nothing there.

 
What's ironic now after several years is that both these guys are very similar! Neither is a great QB. Both are average. They will have a great day occasionally, but both have a penchant for losing. In retrospect, Denver got the better end of the deal because of the picks, but didn't they was the pick anyway?

 
Assuming Martz and that line don't get him killed, Cutler is on pace for another 25+ TD pass, 4,000 yard season. And the Bears just finished what will probably be their toughest 3-week stretch of the season. But he needs more help from the running game. 119 rushing yards from your main RB in three games ain't gonna cut it. His upside is still somewhat limited, because of his style of play and his lack of consistent playmakers at the WR position, but if the defense hangs tough and they get the running game going, Cutler is still a QB you can win with.

 
First Round quarterbacks drafted the year before, the year, and the year after Jay was drafted (by wins)

Jay Cutler has won 36 games.

Aaron Rodgers has won 35 games.

Vince Young has won 30 games.

Jason Campbell has won 29 games

Alex Smith has won 19 games.

JaMarcus Russell has won 9 games.

Matt Leinart has won 7 games.

Brady Quinn has won 3 games.

 
I love me some Cutler. Especially as my #2; :shrug:

Definitely would be better if I didn't have to play him as a matchup play but with Romo there's always that risk, and Cutler's been my pick 2 weeks out of 3 so far this year. High ceiling and low floor=lotsa stress. The way I figure it, 109 td's count for 654 points, minus 82 for the interceptions, plus 473 for yards and that's not so bad.

 
'sho nuff said:
'benson_will_lead_the_way said:
'sho nuff said:
'candymanvandyfan said:
1,421 career completions16,822 career passing yards109 career passing touchdowns
Click to expand...
82 career interceptions
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Why are you even in this thread?Probably b/c you're a biased Packers fan.Next you will post his career win total :rolleyes:
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Somebody posts stats without bringing up interceptions and I am the biased one?Do you dispute that he has 82 career INTs?
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1) Again why are you in the thread?2) It was the second time in a matter of hours you posted about Cutler's INTs, you clearly have a motive.
 
'Statcruncher said:
IMO Cutler had a decent game, but still needs to improve. He made some great throws but also clearly missed several receivers. He wasn't consistently putting the ball where only the receiver could make a play on it. He was lucky to only have 2 picks. He didn't seem comfortable when there was a pocket. He seldom set up and stepped into a throw, mostly relying on arm strength over mechanics. A couple times he seemed to hold the ball too long, but the telecast didn't show the downfield coverage so maybe there was nothing there.
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what he said. My only addition is that is what people have been saying his whole career - he has made limited to no improvement to his game.
 
'benson_will_lead_the_way said:
'sho nuff said:
'benson_will_lead_the_way said:
'sho nuff said:
'candymanvandyfan said:
1,421 career completions16,822 career passing yards109 career passing touchdowns
Click to expand...
82 career interceptions
Click to expand...
Why are you even in this thread?Probably b/c you're a biased Packers fan.Next you will post his career win total :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Somebody posts stats without bringing up interceptions and I am the biased one?Do you dispute that he has 82 career INTs?
Click to expand...
1) Again why are you in the thread?2) It was the second time in a matter of hours you posted about Cutler's INTs, you clearly have a motive.
Click to expand...
motive? Just trying to feed the kool aid drinkers a little ipecac before they o.d.
 
'smackdaddies said:
'benson_will_lead_the_way said:
'sho nuff said:
'benson_will_lead_the_way said:
'sho nuff said:
'candymanvandyfan said:
1,421 career completions16,822 career passing yards109 career passing touchdowns
Click to expand...
82 career interceptions
Click to expand...
Why are you even in this thread?Probably b/c you're a biased Packers fan.Next you will post his career win total :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Somebody posts stats without bringing up interceptions and I am the biased one?Do you dispute that he has 82 career INTs?
Click to expand...
1) Again why are you in the thread?2) It was the second time in a matter of hours you posted about Cutler's INTs, you clearly have a motive.
Click to expand...
motive? Just trying to feed the kool aid drinkers a little ipecac before they o.d.
Click to expand...
Wrong alias.
 
'mr roboto said:
'smackdaddies said:
'benson_will_lead_the_way said:
'sho nuff said:
'benson_will_lead_the_way said:
'sho nuff said:
'candymanvandyfan said:
1,421 career completions16,822 career passing yards109 career passing touchdowns
Click to expand...
82 career interceptions
Click to expand...
Why are you even in this thread?Probably b/c you're a biased Packers fan.Next you will post his career win total :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Somebody posts stats without bringing up interceptions and I am the biased one?Do you dispute that he has 82 career INTs?
Click to expand...
1) Again why are you in the thread?2) It was the second time in a matter of hours you posted about Cutler's INTs, you clearly have a motive.
Click to expand...
motive? Just trying to feed the kool aid drinkers a little ipecac before they o.d.
Click to expand...
Wrong alias.
Click to expand...
Oops.
 
'candymanvandyfan said:
First Round quarterbacks drafted the year before, the year, and the year after Jay was drafted (by wins)Jay Cutler has won 36 games.Aaron Rodgers has won 35 games.Vince Young has won 30 games.Jason Campbell has won 29 gamesAlex Smith has won 19 games.JaMarcus Russell has won 9 games.Matt Leinart has won 7 games.Brady Quinn has won 3 games.
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Great...so he is better than some really crappy QBs.BTW...Rodgers has a Super Bowl MVP. :)Nice try.
 
'benson_will_lead_the_way said:
'sho nuff said:
'benson_will_lead_the_way said:
'sho nuff said:
'candymanvandyfan said:
1,421 career completions16,822 career passing yards109 career passing touchdowns
Click to expand...
82 career interceptions
Click to expand...
Why are you even in this thread?Probably b/c you're a biased Packers fan.Next you will post his career win total :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Somebody posts stats without bringing up interceptions and I am the biased one?Do you dispute that he has 82 career INTs?
Click to expand...
1) Again why are you in the thread?2) It was the second time in a matter of hours you posted about Cutler's INTs, you clearly have a motive.
Click to expand...
1) To discuss Jay Cutler...did I need an invitation?2) My motive is to put the entire bit of information out there unlike the vandy fan who seems like a family member of Cutler that has to try and convince people of his greatness.Can you tell me the INT number is not important to a conversation that is listing his stats?
 
'mr roboto said:
'smackdaddies said:
'benson_will_lead_the_way said:
'sho nuff said:
'benson_will_lead_the_way said:
'sho nuff said:
'candymanvandyfan said:
1,421 career completions16,822 career passing yards109 career passing touchdowns
Click to expand...
82 career interceptions
Click to expand...
Why are you even in this thread?Probably b/c you're a biased Packers fan.Next you will post his career win total :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Somebody posts stats without bringing up interceptions and I am the biased one?Do you dispute that he has 82 career INTs?
Click to expand...
1) Again why are you in the thread?2) It was the second time in a matter of hours you posted about Cutler's INTs, you clearly have a motive.
Click to expand...
motive? Just trying to feed the kool aid drinkers a little ipecac before they o.d.
Click to expand...
Wrong alias.
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Nope...not me.
 
'sho nuff said:
'candymanvandyfan said:
First Round quarterbacks drafted the year before, the year, and the year after Jay was drafted (by wins)Jay Cutler has won 36 games.Aaron Rodgers has won 35 games.Vince Young has won 30 games.Jason Campbell has won 29 gamesAlex Smith has won 19 games.JaMarcus Russell has won 9 games.Matt Leinart has won 7 games.Brady Quinn has won 3 games.
Click to expand...
Great...so he is better than some really crappy QBs.BTW...Rodgers has a Super Bowl MVP. :)Nice try.
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This isn't a list of good quarterbacks. It's a list of career wins credited to first round quarterbacks drafted within a three year window. I know you're not a fan. Someone in the thread had suggested the posting of Cutler's career win total, so I thought it would be an interesting look.
 
'moleculo said:
'mr roboto said:
'smackdaddies said:
'benson_will_lead_the_way said:
'sho nuff said:
'benson_will_lead_the_way said:
'sho nuff said:
'candymanvandyfan said:
1,421 career completions

16,822 career passing yards

109 career passing touchdowns
Click to expand...
82 career interceptions
Click to expand...
Why are you even in this thread?Probably b/c you're a biased Packers fan.

Next you will post his career win total :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Somebody posts stats without bringing up interceptions and I am the biased one?Do you dispute that he has 82 career INTs?
Click to expand...
1) Again why are you in the thread?2) It was the second time in a matter of hours you posted about Cutler's INTs, you clearly have a motive.
Click to expand...
motive? Just trying to feed the kool aid drinkers a little ipecac before they o.d.
Click to expand...
Wrong alias.
Click to expand...
Oops.
Click to expand...
anyone who thinks that ShoNuff and I are the same hasn't been paying attention to the discussions that happen on this board. But I would expect that from Bear fans who can't face reality

 
The Bears draft like a team that doesn't want a passing game. Fix the line and receivers and then we'll talk.

 
'smackdaddies said:
'moleculo said:
'mr roboto said:
'smackdaddies said:
'benson_will_lead_the_way said:
'sho nuff said:
'benson_will_lead_the_way said:
'sho nuff said:
'candymanvandyfan said:
1,421 career completions

16,822 career passing yards

109 career passing touchdowns
Click to expand...
82 career interceptions
Click to expand...
Why are you even in this thread?Probably b/c you're a biased Packers fan.

Next you will post his career win total :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Somebody posts stats without bringing up interceptions and I am the biased one?Do you dispute that he has 82 career INTs?
Click to expand...
1) Again why are you in the thread?2) It was the second time in a matter of hours you posted about Cutler's INTs, you clearly have a motive.
Click to expand...
motive? Just trying to feed the kool aid drinkers a little ipecac before they o.d.
Click to expand...
Wrong alias.
Click to expand...
Oops.
Click to expand...
anyone who thinks that ShoNuff and I are the same hasn't been paying attention to the discussions that happen on this board. But I would expect that from Bear fans who can't face reality
Click to expand...
Me? Not a Bear's fan at all.But why would you answer a question directly addressed at the motive for sho nuff posting Cutler's INT stats? Kinda weird.

This has happened before. See HUCKS/Jim11 controversy.

 
'mr roboto said:
'smackdaddies said:
'moleculo said:
'mr roboto said:
'smackdaddies said:
'benson_will_lead_the_way said:
'sho nuff said:
'benson_will_lead_the_way said:
'sho nuff said:
'candymanvandyfan said:
1,421 career completions

16,822 career passing yards

109 career passing touchdowns
Click to expand...
82 career interceptions
Click to expand...
Why are you even in this thread?Probably b/c you're a biased Packers fan.

Next you will post his career win total :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Somebody posts stats without bringing up interceptions and I am the biased one?Do you dispute that he has 82 career INTs?
Click to expand...
1) Again why are you in the thread?2) It was the second time in a matter of hours you posted about Cutler's INTs, you clearly have a motive.
Click to expand...
motive? Just trying to feed the kool aid drinkers a little ipecac before they o.d.
Click to expand...
Wrong alias.
Click to expand...
Oops.
Click to expand...
anyone who thinks that ShoNuff and I are the same hasn't been paying attention to the discussions that happen on this board. But I would expect that from Bear fans who can't face reality
Click to expand...
Me? Not a Bear's fan at all.But why would you answer a question directly addressed at the motive for sho nuff posting Cutler's INT stats? Kinda weird.

This has happened before. See HUCKS/Jim11 controversy.
Click to expand...
ok. commenting on posts is proof of sock puppetry. another fine public school graduate.
 
'cr8f said:
The Bears draft like a team that doesn't want a passing game. Fix the line and receivers and then we'll talk.
Click to expand...
:goodposting: How can you really assess a QB that has Mickey Mouse talent surrounding him?

To answer my own question... You can't.

I have no idea how good Cutler can be, because he doesn't have an NFL offense surrounding him. It's up to him to single handedly win games in a system that gets its QBs killed, behind a line that is one of the worst in the NFL, and with no WRs who can get open or create enough of a threat to keep teams from blitzing at will or stacking the box to shut down the running game. Did you know that Cutler led the Bears in both rushing (11) and passing (302) on Sunday? When your QB leads the team in rushing with 11 yards, and your only offensive weapon is supposed to be the RB, you know the offense is in serious trouble. Cutler is being asked to do it all by himself and with one hand tied behind his back.

And it may even be worse in 2011 than in the previous two seasons, since his best receiving option was traded away(Greg Olsen). Where are the mismatches going to come from? Who on this offense do opposing defenses have to account for on every play? Again to answer my own question...

Jay Cutler and Matt Forte and that's it! There are absolutely no other assets on this offense, but there are liabilities all over the place.

Even HOF QBs need a system that doesn't get them killed, an oline that can block, and/or skill position talent. When Cutler has NONE of those things, you can't really assess him. You have nothing to base it on. And unfortunately since there is a history of Martz system QBs going into shell shock after 2-3 years in his system (with better olines and receiving talent than this team's), then there is a good chance that Cutler is ruined as an NFL QB after this experience.

 
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'benson_will_lead_the_way said:
'smackdaddies said:
'mr roboto said:
Me? Not a Bear's fan at all.But why would you answer a question directly addressed at the motive for sho nuff posting Cutler's INT stats? Kinda weird.This has happened before. See HUCKS/Jim11 controversy.
Click to expand...
ok. commenting on posts is proof of sock puppetry. another fine public school graduate.
Click to expand...
Nice try and diverting the attention. Gottcha :pics: You got caught
Click to expand...
Do you enjoy being incorrect?Oh no, I replied when you were responding to smackdaddies.Hah!!!
 
'sho nuff said:
'benson_will_lead_the_way said:
'smackdaddies said:
'mr roboto said:
Me? Not a Bear's fan at all.But why would you answer a question directly addressed at the motive for sho nuff posting Cutler's INT stats? Kinda weird.This has happened before. See HUCKS/Jim11 controversy.
Click to expand...
ok. commenting on posts is proof of sock puppetry. another fine public school graduate.
Click to expand...
Nice try and diverting the attention. Gottcha :pics: You got caught
Click to expand...
Do you enjoy being incorrect?Oh no, I replied when you were responding to smackdaddies.Hah!!!
Click to expand...
I was being facetious, not like you would know what it even means.
 
'candymanvandyfan said:
First Round quarterbacks drafted the year before, the year, and the year after Jay was drafted (by wins)Jay Cutler has won 36 games.Aaron Rodgers has won 35 games.Vince Young has won 30 games.Jason Campbell has won 29 gamesAlex Smith has won 19 games.JaMarcus Russell has won 9 games.Matt Leinart has won 7 games.Brady Quinn has won 3 games.
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This is a MOST misleading sample. First, it is wrong to compare him just to players drafted in these years. Why not compare him to all starting QBs? Isn't the question: how good of a starting QB is Cutler? And not: how good is Cutler compared to the other guys drafted in the year before, after, and during his draft year? Unless you are assessing the Broncos drafting startegy, the second question is really pointless. The only thing matters is how good is he compared to other starting QBs? Does he give his team a better or worse chance of winning?The answer to that question is clear NOT by looking at total numbers of wins, but at winning %. First, Rodgers didn't play his first couple of years. So, he couldn't notch many wins. Cutler's winning % is 50/50 (.500). He has 36 wins and 36 losses and is 1-1 in the playoffs. That's average. It suggests that he deserves to be a starting Qb, but he hasn't shown yet in 6 years in the NFL that he is an elite or even simply above average.Rodgers? He is 35-26, for a .573 winning %. And his playoff records is 4-1. He is an Above Average QB.Cutler is not as good as Rodgers but he is about as good as Young (whose career isn't necessarily over).He is better than the rest of these guys, but that isn't saying much. Most have not proven to be NFL starting QBs, even bad ones. He is better than Alex Smith and Jason Campbell. Leinart, Russel, and Quinn are not starting QBs in the NFL.Can the Bear's win a SB with him? Sure. If he has a great team and great coaching around him. But he is not going to win a SB for them the way a great QB can do.
 
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His career stats aren't exactly stunning when a 10+ guys are going to throw for 4k every year now.

As long as this is still high on the page, you know.

 
'az_prof said:
'candymanvandyfan said:
First Round quarterbacks drafted the year before, the year, and the year after Jay was drafted (by wins)Jay Cutler has won 36 games.Aaron Rodgers has won 35 games.Vince Young has won 30 games.Jason Campbell has won 29 gamesAlex Smith has won 19 games.JaMarcus Russell has won 9 games.Matt Leinart has won 7 games.Brady Quinn has won 3 games.
Click to expand...
This is a MOST misleading sample. First, it is wrong to compare him just to players drafted in these years. Why not compare him to all starting QBs? Isn't the question: how good of a starting QB is Cutler? And not: how good is Cutler compared to the other guys drafted in the year before, after, and during his draft year? Unless you are assessing the Broncos drafting startegy, the second question is really pointless. The only thing matters is how good is he compared to other starting QBs? Does he give his team a better or worse chance of winning?The answer to that question is clear NOT by looking at total numbers of wins, but at winning %. First, Rodgers didn't play his first couple of years. So, he couldn't notch many wins. Cutler's winning % is 50/50 (.500). He has 36 wins and 36 losses and is 1-1 in the playoffs. That's average. It suggests that he deserves to be a starting Qb, but he hasn't shown yet in 6 years in the NFL that he is an elite or even simply above average.Rodgers? He is 35-26, for a .573 winning %. And his playoff records is 4-1. He is an Above Average QB.Cutler is not as good as Rodgers but he is about as good as Young (whose career isn't necessarily over).He is better than the rest of these guys, but that isn't saying much. Most have not proven to be NFL starting QBs, even bad ones. He is better than Alex Smith and Jason Campbell. Leinart, Russel, and Quinn are not starting QBs in the NFL.Can the Bear's win a SB with him? Sure. If he has a great team and great coaching around him. But he is not going to win a SB for them the way a great QB can do.
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Winning percentage is way to judge how good a team is not a QB. Look at Steve Youngs W/L percentage with the Buccaneers and then with the Niners. The same goes for INT's and you can once again look at Steve Young. if a QB is on a team that has him trying to come back from behind it will result into more INT's. stats are only stats, it is what a team does when they lose that player that tells more of a true story.That being said I am not trying to defend Cutler as he is in my eyes mediocre
 
'Lester Long said:
'az_prof said:
'candymanvandyfan said:
First Round quarterbacks drafted the year before, the year, and the year after Jay was drafted (by wins)Jay Cutler has won 36 games.Aaron Rodgers has won 35 games.Vince Young has won 30 games.Jason Campbell has won 29 gamesAlex Smith has won 19 games.JaMarcus Russell has won 9 games.Matt Leinart has won 7 games.Brady Quinn has won 3 games.
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This is a MOST misleading sample. First, it is wrong to compare him just to players drafted in these years. Why not compare him to all starting QBs? Isn't the question: how good of a starting QB is Cutler? And not: how good is Cutler compared to the other guys drafted in the year before, after, and during his draft year? Unless you are assessing the Broncos drafting startegy, the second question is really pointless. The only thing matters is how good is he compared to other starting QBs? Does he give his team a better or worse chance of winning?The answer to that question is clear NOT by looking at total numbers of wins, but at winning %. First, Rodgers didn't play his first couple of years. So, he couldn't notch many wins. Cutler's winning % is 50/50 (.500). He has 36 wins and 36 losses and is 1-1 in the playoffs. That's average. It suggests that he deserves to be a starting Qb, but he hasn't shown yet in 6 years in the NFL that he is an elite or even simply above average.Rodgers? He is 35-26, for a .573 winning %. And his playoff records is 4-1. He is an Above Average QB.Cutler is not as good as Rodgers but he is about as good as Young (whose career isn't necessarily over).He is better than the rest of these guys, but that isn't saying much. Most have not proven to be NFL starting QBs, even bad ones. He is better than Alex Smith and Jason Campbell. Leinart, Russel, and Quinn are not starting QBs in the NFL.Can the Bear's win a SB with him? Sure. If he has a great team and great coaching around him. But he is not going to win a SB for them the way a great QB can do.
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Winning percentage is way to judge how good a team is not a QB. Look at Steve Youngs W/L percentage with the Buccaneers and then with the Niners. The same goes for INT's and you can once again look at Steve Young. if a QB is on a team that has him trying to come back from behind it will result into more INT's. stats are only stats, it is what a team does when they lose that player that tells more of a true story.That being said I am not trying to defend Cutler as he is in my eyes mediocre
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I would agree that it is an imperfect measure. But put it in the context of the post I was responding too: he tried to used total team wins as a measure. That's even worse.Winning % over the course of a career is a decent measure, though imperfect. The QB touches the ball on every offensive play. He is the on field general and leader. He is the one who orchestrates come backs and he is the one whose INTs often cause a team to lose a game they should have won. Imperfect? yes. But a pretty good yard stick over enough games.And in this case, Cutler has played for some pretty decent teams. Denver when he took over was a playoff caliber team. Chicago has a pretty good core of talent too. For Cutler's teams to be only .500 is not a good reflection on him IMO.
 
'sho nuff said:
'candymanvandyfan said:
First Round quarterbacks drafted the year before, the year, and the year after Jay was drafted (by wins)Jay Cutler has won 36 games.Aaron Rodgers has won 35 games.Vince Young has won 30 games.Jason Campbell has won 29 gamesAlex Smith has won 19 games.JaMarcus Russell has won 9 games.Matt Leinart has won 7 games.Brady Quinn has won 3 games.
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Great...so he is better than some really crappy QBs.BTW...Rodgers has a Super Bowl MVP. :)Nice try.
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Somebody posts wins without bringing up awards and he's the biased one?Do you dispute that he has 36 games won?
 
Cutler is a great example of a middle-of-the-road NFL QB - you have a bunch of people who thinks he sucks (he doesn't), and a bunch of people who think he is a franchise QB (he isn't).

He is in the conversation of the 10-20 ranked QBs.

Taking manning out of the equation:

In no particular order:

Top Tier

Rodgers, Brady, Vick, Stafford, Brees, Rivers, Ryan, Roethlisberger, Schaub, Freeman

Nobody in this tier would voluntarily swap QBs with Chicago.

Middle Tier:

Cutler, Flacco, E. Manning, Bradford, Newton, Romo, Kolb, Sanchez, Fitzgerald, Orton

Honestly, the only team here that I would think would swap straight-up would be Denver, and the old regime already swapped Cutler for Orton. Maybe Buffalo, but they seem pretty happy with Fitzgerald right now.

 
'Sinn Fein said:
Cutler is a great example of a middle-of-the-road NFL QB - you have a bunch of people who thinks he sucks (he doesn't), and a bunch of people who think he is a franchise QB (he isn't).He is in the conversation of the 10-20 ranked QBs.Taking manning out of the equation:In no particular order:Top TierRodgers, Brady, Vick, Stafford, Brees, Rivers, Ryan, Roethlisberger, Schaub, Freeman Nobody in this tier would voluntarily swap QBs with Chicago.Middle Tier:Cutler, Flacco, E. Manning, Bradford, Newton, Romo, Kolb, Sanchez, Fitzgerald, OrtonHonestly, the only team here that I would think would swap straight-up would be Denver, and the old regime already swapped Cutler for Orton. Maybe Buffalo, but they seem pretty happy with Fitzgerald right now.
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I agree with your basic premise, but I disagree with the grouping:Top tier-Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Rivers, Vick, Big BenThese players have proven to be elite or do special things oftenSecond tier-Stafford, Ryan, Schuab, Romo, Bradford, Cutler, Eli, FlaccoSometimes they do special things, but are inconsisent/injured/young.Third tier-Newton, Sanchez, Fitzpatrick, Kolb, Orton, CasselHave shown to be better than bottom tier, but not good enough to be a second tier QB yet.Bottom tier-McNabb/Ponder, Dalton, Henne, McCoy, Gabbert, Hasselbeck, Campbell, Grossman, Smith, JacksonThe worst starting QBs in the league. They have some games or stretches when they are decent, but not consistently. Or they are very young and we don't know what they are yet.
 
'Blue-Kun said:
'sho nuff said:
'candymanvandyfan said:
First Round quarterbacks drafted the year before, the year, and the year after Jay was drafted (by wins)Jay Cutler has won 36 games.Aaron Rodgers has won 35 games.Vince Young has won 30 games.Jason Campbell has won 29 gamesAlex Smith has won 19 games.JaMarcus Russell has won 9 games.Matt Leinart has won 7 games.Brady Quinn has won 3 games.
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Great...so he is better than some really crappy QBs.BTW...Rodgers has a Super Bowl MVP. :)Nice try.
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Somebody posts wins without bringing up awards and he's the biased one?Do you dispute that he has 36 games won?
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I dont dispute that...i dispute this list means anything
 
'geoff8695 said:
'cr8f said:
The Bears draft like a team that doesn't want a passing game. Fix the line and receivers and then we'll talk.
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:goodposting: How can you really assess a QB that has Mickey Mouse talent surrounding him?

To answer my own question... You can't.

I have no idea how good Cutler can be, because he doesn't have an NFL offense surrounding him. It's up to him to single handedly win games in a system that gets its QBs killed, behind a line that is one of the worst in the NFL, and with no WRs who can get open or create enough of a threat to keep teams from blitzing at will or stacking the box to shut down the running game. Did you know that Cutler led the Bears in both rushing (11) and passing (302) on Sunday? When your QB leads the team in rushing with 11 yards, and your only offensive weapon is supposed to be the RB, you know the offense is in serious trouble. Cutler is being asked to do it all by himself and with one hand tied behind his back.

And it may even be worse in 2011 than in the previous two seasons, since his best receiving option was traded away(Greg Olsen). Where are the mismatches going to come from? Who on this offense do opposing defenses have to account for on every play? Again to answer my own question...

Jay Cutler and Matt Forte and that's it! There are absolutely no other assets on this offense, but there are liabilities all over the place.

Even HOF QBs need a system that doesn't get them killed, an oline that can block, and/or skill position talent. When Cutler has NONE of those things, you can't really assess him. You have nothing to base it on. And unfortunately since there is a history of Martz system QBs going into shell shock after 2-3 years in his system (with better olines and receiving talent than this team's), then there is a good chance that Cutler is ruined as an NFL QB after this experience.
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How did they assess the last 5 QBs?
 
'Sinn Fein said:
Cutler is a great example of a middle-of-the-road NFL QB - you have a bunch of people who thinks he sucks (he doesn't), and a bunch of people who think he is a franchise QB (he isn't).He is in the conversation of the 10-20 ranked QBs.Taking manning out of the equation:In no particular order:Top TierRodgers, Brady, Vick, Stafford, Brees, Rivers, Ryan, Roethlisberger, Schaub, Freeman Nobody in this tier would voluntarily swap QBs with Chicago.Middle Tier:Cutler, Flacco, E. Manning, Bradford, Newton, Romo, Kolb, Sanchez, Fitzgerald, OrtonHonestly, the only team here that I would think would swap straight-up would be Denver, and the old regime already swapped Cutler for Orton. Maybe Buffalo, but they seem pretty happy with Fitzgerald right now.
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I agree that Cutler is a middle of the pack starter, but how in the hell is Stafford already a top tier QB? Can he at least put together one great season without missing a lot of time before we even put him close to the top tier? Also, Bradford is not on the same level as Romo, Cutler, Eli or Flacco yet (and Romo and Eli are ahead of Cutler and Flacco). He might be someday, but not right now.
 
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