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How do you feel about Cutler now? (current info on pg 46) (2 Viewers)

Kool-Aid Larry said:
mbuehner said:
Anybody who thinks Orton would be better with this O-line, please explain to me how in gods name that is possible. The only thing keeping this offense alive and respectable is Cutler's ability to move around in the pocket, roll out, and run for first downs. Orton would be in a coma by now.
Click to expand...
how about you explain to me why orton was the fall guy on that team last year, while this year it'd everybody's fault BUT the qb.people were jumping up and down peeing themselves because of this qb switch, now everybody's saying it's all the surroundng team that matters when cutler throws 11 picks and takes 15 sacks, while orton leads the nfl in 4th quarter qb rating.if you think peyton manning and brady don't take many sacks, or throw many picks simply due to their offense lines, you're out of your mind.
Click to expand...
Orton wasn't asked to do much last year. Make smart throws, manage the game, avoid turnovers and lean on the running game and D, which he did very capably. This year, the runnning game has been all but non-existent and the D has been significantly worse, neither of which you can realistically blame on Cutler.Would any of the Bears' WRs be starters or even play any significant time at all on the Colts or Patriots? We certainly don't have anyone even close to the skill set and ability of a Reggie Wayne or Randy Moss, you're kidding yourself if you don't think that having a go-to guy like that makes a big difference. And those are two Hall of Fame QBs you are talking about, I don't think anyone is trying to contend Cutler is in the same class as them, but I'd still take him over the majority of the starting QBs in the league right now.
 
The_Wolfman said:
Orton wasn't asked to do much last year. Make smart throws, manage the game, avoid turnovers and lean on the running game and D, which he did very capably.
Click to expand...
They should ask Cutler to do those things. Seriously, what's the harm in asking? The worst he can say is no.
 
Maurile Tremblay said:
The_Wolfman said:
Orton wasn't asked to do much last year. Make smart throws, manage the game, avoid turnovers and lean on the running game and D, which he did very capably.
Click to expand...
They should ask Cutler to do those things. Seriously, what's the harm in asking? The worst he can say is no.
Click to expand...
:goodposting: Well obviously every quarterback is expected to do that, but this current Bears team isn't going to win many games with checkdowns to the running backs and a short conservative passing game. They need Cutler to make plays and go downfield with the ball, which is not congruent with the part you didnt bold, being a game manager and relying on the run.
 
The_Wolfman said:
Kool-Aid Larry said:
mbuehner said:
Anybody who thinks Orton would be better with this O-line, please explain to me how in gods name that is possible. The only thing keeping this offense alive and respectable is Cutler's ability to move around in the pocket, roll out, and run for first downs. Orton would be in a coma by now.
Click to expand...
how about you explain to me why orton was the fall guy on that team last year, while this year it'd everybody's fault BUT the qb.people were jumping up and down peeing themselves because of this qb switch, now everybody's saying it's all the surroundng team that matters when cutler throws 11 picks and takes 15 sacks, while orton leads the nfl in 4th quarter qb rating.

if you think peyton manning and brady don't take many sacks, or throw many picks simply due to their offense lines, you're out of your mind.
Click to expand...
Orton wasn't asked to do much last year. Make smart throws, manage the game, avoid turnovers and lean on the running game and D, which he did very capably. This year, the runnning game has been all but non-existent and the D has been significantly worse, neither of which you can realistically blame on Cutler.Would any of the Bears' WRs be starters or even play any significant time at all on the Colts or Patriots? We certainly don't have anyone even close to the skill set and ability of a Reggie Wayne or Randy Moss, you're kidding yourself if you don't think that having a go-to guy like that makes a big difference. And those are two Hall of Fame QBs you are talking about, I don't think anyone is trying to contend Cutler is in the same class as them, but I'd still take him over the majority of the starting QBs in the league right now.
Click to expand...
Last I checked, more of a passing threat should open up things for the running game. So if Cutler is such an improvement at QB, why don't defenses respect the pass at all?And you are way underselling the Bears WRs... Knox is young, but he'd be a starter on the Colts and Pats IMO. Hester shouldn't be used as a starting WR, but I believe if he were on the Colts or Pats he would be used in the slot at times as well.

And if you want to knock the Bears WRs this year, then what the heck did Orton have to throw to last year? Knox wasn't even there, and Hester was even MORE raw. Ridiculous how many excuses Cutler gets, while Orton won the same number of games, threw less INTs, with a worse supporting cast.

 
The_Wolfman said:
Maurile Tremblay said:
The_Wolfman said:
Orton wasn't asked to do much last year. Make smart throws, manage the game, avoid turnovers and lean on the running game and D, which he did very capably.
Click to expand...
They should ask Cutler to do those things. Seriously, what's the harm in asking? The worst he can say is no.
Click to expand...
:coffee: Well obviously every quarterback is expected to do that, but this current Bears team isn't going to win many games with checkdowns to the running backs and a short conservative passing game. They need Cutler to make plays and go downfield with the ball, which is not congruent with the part you didnt bold, being a game manager and relying on the run.
Click to expand...
Really? That's how they won last year, with a worse team IMO, and last time I checked checking down to the RB is a much better option than throwing INTs. Regardless of what you want to call the QB. Smart trumps stupid every time.
 
Maurile Tremblay said:
The_Wolfman said:
Orton wasn't asked to do much last year. Make smart throws, manage the game, avoid turnovers and lean on the running game and D, which he did very capably.
Click to expand...
They should ask Cutler to do those things. Seriously, what's the harm in asking? The worst he can say is no.
Click to expand...
How do you ask your QB to do those things when you're losing by 3 touchdowns to the BENGALS? Hey, go out there and dont take any chances?
 
switz said:
The_Wolfman said:
Maurile Tremblay said:
The_Wolfman said:
Orton wasn't asked to do much last year. Make smart throws, manage the game, avoid turnovers and lean on the running game and D, which he did very capably.
Click to expand...
They should ask Cutler to do those things. Seriously, what's the harm in asking? The worst he can say is no.
Click to expand...
:coffee: Well obviously every quarterback is expected to do that, but this current Bears team isn't going to win many games with checkdowns to the running backs and a short conservative passing game. They need Cutler to make plays and go downfield with the ball, which is not congruent with the part you didnt bold, being a game manager and relying on the run.
Click to expand...
Really? That's how they won last year, with a worse team IMO
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Great- lets see some evidence that last years team was worse. The only thing better this year is THE PASSING GAME. Ironic, I know.
 
switz said:
The_Wolfman said:
Maurile Tremblay said:
The_Wolfman said:
Orton wasn't asked to do much last year. Make smart throws, manage the game, avoid turnovers and lean on the running game and D, which he did very capably.
Click to expand...
They should ask Cutler to do those things. Seriously, what's the harm in asking? The worst he can say is no.
Click to expand...
:blackdot: Well obviously every quarterback is expected to do that, but this current Bears team isn't going to win many games with checkdowns to the running backs and a short conservative passing game. They need Cutler to make plays and go downfield with the ball, which is not congruent with the part you didnt bold, being a game manager and relying on the run.
Click to expand...
Really? That's how they won last year, with a worse team IMO, and last time I checked checking down to the RB is a much better option than throwing INTs. Regardless of what you want to call the QB. Smart trumps stupid every time.
Click to expand...
I think you are correct in everything you say, in terms of Orton vs Cutler. However, as a Bears homer, I can absolutely say that I feel better going into games with Cutler than I ever did with Orton. And every single game this year, I have felt that there was a chance to win it in the end with him. Orton is a fantastic game manager, and a very smart QB who will not lose games for you. When the Bears had that great defense a few years back (I don't think anyone would say that this team is close defensively to a few years ago, and losing Urlacher this year is huge, no matter how overrated everyone thinks he is), Orton was the perfect QB for the team. Now the defense is not as good and we clearly need some extra push on offense. Orton could definitely still be managing the game for us, but I do not feel he could have made the kinds of throws to help bring the Bears back to win the Pitt and Seattle games the way Cutler did.

Admittedly I was in the hospital for the Cincy game, so I really did not get to see him suck it up in that game. But even in the Green Bay game, we still had a shot to win that one in the end even with Cutler playing like complete garbage, and I felt like when he had the ball he gave us a chance to score every time. I never felt that way with Orton.

I am an Orton fan. I just do not see that he brings that same thing to the table. It could just be blind homerism and my continued giddyness that we finally have what I consider a legit franchise QB...I am OK with that. But I will take Cutler any day.

 
switz said:
The_Wolfman said:
Kool-Aid Larry said:
mbuehner said:
Anybody who thinks Orton would be better with this O-line, please explain to me how in gods name that is possible. The only thing keeping this offense alive and respectable is Cutler's ability to move around in the pocket, roll out, and run for first downs. Orton would be in a coma by now.
Click to expand...
how about you explain to me why orton was the fall guy on that team last year, while this year it'd everybody's fault BUT the qb.people were jumping up and down peeing themselves because of this qb switch, now everybody's saying it's all the surroundng team that matters when cutler throws 11 picks and takes 15 sacks, while orton leads the nfl in 4th quarter qb rating.

if you think peyton manning and brady don't take many sacks, or throw many picks simply due to their offense lines, you're out of your mind.
Click to expand...
Orton wasn't asked to do much last year. Make smart throws, manage the game, avoid turnovers and lean on the running game and D, which he did very capably. This year, the runnning game has been all but non-existent and the D has been significantly worse, neither of which you can realistically blame on Cutler.Would any of the Bears' WRs be starters or even play any significant time at all on the Colts or Patriots? We certainly don't have anyone even close to the skill set and ability of a Reggie Wayne or Randy Moss, you're kidding yourself if you don't think that having a go-to guy like that makes a big difference. And those are two Hall of Fame QBs you are talking about, I don't think anyone is trying to contend Cutler is in the same class as them, but I'd still take him over the majority of the starting QBs in the league right now.
Click to expand...
Last I checked, more of a passing threat should open up things for the running game. So if Cutler is such an improvement at QB, why don't defenses respect the pass at all?And you are way underselling the Bears WRs... Knox is young, but he'd be a starter on the Colts and Pats IMO. Hester shouldn't be used as a starting WR, but I believe if he were on the Colts or Pats he would be used in the slot at times as well.

And if you want to knock the Bears WRs this year, then what the heck did Orton have to throw to last year? Knox wasn't even there, and Hester was even MORE raw. Ridiculous how many excuses Cutler gets, while Orton won the same number of games, threw less INTs, with a worse supporting cast.
Click to expand...
So who would you start him over, Moss or Welker?
 
mbuehner said:
switz said:
The_Wolfman said:
Maurile Tremblay said:
The_Wolfman said:
Orton wasn't asked to do much last year. Make smart throws, manage the game, avoid turnovers and lean on the running game and D, which he did very capably.
Click to expand...
They should ask Cutler to do those things. Seriously, what's the harm in asking? The worst he can say is no.
Click to expand...
:excited: Well obviously every quarterback is expected to do that, but this current Bears team isn't going to win many games with checkdowns to the running backs and a short conservative passing game. They need Cutler to make plays and go downfield with the ball, which is not congruent with the part you didnt bold, being a game manager and relying on the run.
Click to expand...
Really? That's how they won last year, with a worse team IMO
Click to expand...
Great- lets see some evidence that last years team was worse. The only thing better this year is THE PASSING GAME. Ironic, I know.
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To start with, they had worse receivers last year. And no, the difference isn't the QB, Knox wasn't even on the team, Bennett was inactive all year. Hester was in his first year playing much at WR.
 
Same as I did before. He has the physical tools to be a great QB, but not the mental ones. Maybe one day he will figure it out. In the meantime he will remain a mediocre QB.

 
MDSkinner said:
switz said:
The_Wolfman said:
Maurile Tremblay said:
The_Wolfman said:
Orton wasn't asked to do much last year. Make smart throws, manage the game, avoid turnovers and lean on the running game and D, which he did very capably.
Click to expand...
They should ask Cutler to do those things. Seriously, what's the harm in asking? The worst he can say is no.
Click to expand...
:excited: Well obviously every quarterback is expected to do that, but this current Bears team isn't going to win many games with checkdowns to the running backs and a short conservative passing game. They need Cutler to make plays and go downfield with the ball, which is not congruent with the part you didnt bold, being a game manager and relying on the run.
Click to expand...
Really? That's how they won last year, with a worse team IMO, and last time I checked checking down to the RB is a much better option than throwing INTs. Regardless of what you want to call the QB. Smart trumps stupid every time.
Click to expand...
I think you are correct in everything you say, in terms of Orton vs Cutler. However, as a Bears homer, I can absolutely say that I feel better going into games with Cutler than I ever did with Orton. And every single game this year, I have felt that there was a chance to win it in the end with him. Orton is a fantastic game manager, and a very smart QB who will not lose games for you. When the Bears had that great defense a few years back (I don't think anyone would say that this team is close defensively to a few years ago, and losing Urlacher this year is huge, no matter how overrated everyone thinks he is), Orton was the perfect QB for the team. Now the defense is not as good and we clearly need some extra push on offense. Orton could definitely still be managing the game for us, but I do not feel he could have made the kinds of throws to help bring the Bears back to win the Pitt and Seattle games the way Cutler did.

Admittedly I was in the hospital for the Cincy game, so I really did not get to see him suck it up in that game. But even in the Green Bay game, we still had a shot to win that one in the end even with Cutler playing like complete garbage, and I felt like when he had the ball he gave us a chance to score every time. I never felt that way with Orton.

I am an Orton fan. I just do not see that he brings that same thing to the table. It could just be blind homerism and my continued giddyness that we finally have what I consider a legit franchise QB...I am OK with that. But I will take Cutler any day.
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:excited: Sums up exactly what I was trying to say.
 
The_Wolfman said:
switz said:
The_Wolfman said:
Kool-Aid Larry said:
mbuehner said:
Anybody who thinks Orton would be better with this O-line, please explain to me how in gods name that is possible. The only thing keeping this offense alive and respectable is Cutler's ability to move around in the pocket, roll out, and run for first downs. Orton would be in a coma by now.
Click to expand...
how about you explain to me why orton was the fall guy on that team last year, while this year it'd everybody's fault BUT the qb.people were jumping up and down peeing themselves because of this qb switch, now everybody's saying it's all the surroundng team that matters when cutler throws 11 picks and takes 15 sacks, while orton leads the nfl in 4th quarter qb rating.

if you think peyton manning and brady don't take many sacks, or throw many picks simply due to their offense lines, you're out of your mind.
Click to expand...
Orton wasn't asked to do much last year. Make smart throws, manage the game, avoid turnovers and lean on the running game and D, which he did very capably. This year, the runnning game has been all but non-existent and the D has been significantly worse, neither of which you can realistically blame on Cutler.Would any of the Bears' WRs be starters or even play any significant time at all on the Colts or Patriots? We certainly don't have anyone even close to the skill set and ability of a Reggie Wayne or Randy Moss, you're kidding yourself if you don't think that having a go-to guy like that makes a big difference. And those are two Hall of Fame QBs you are talking about, I don't think anyone is trying to contend Cutler is in the same class as them, but I'd still take him over the majority of the starting QBs in the league right now.
Click to expand...
Last I checked, more of a passing threat should open up things for the running game. So if Cutler is such an improvement at QB, why don't defenses respect the pass at all?And you are way underselling the Bears WRs... Knox is young, but he'd be a starter on the Colts and Pats IMO. Hester shouldn't be used as a starting WR, but I believe if he were on the Colts or Pats he would be used in the slot at times as well.

And if you want to knock the Bears WRs this year, then what the heck did Orton have to throw to last year? Knox wasn't even there, and Hester was even MORE raw. Ridiculous how many excuses Cutler gets, while Orton won the same number of games, threw less INTs, with a worse supporting cast.
Click to expand...
So who would you start him over, Moss or Welker?
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The Pats start more than 2 WRs usually.. Welker is a slot guy, Moss is a flanker. They typically have another flanker, and the fact I can't even think of who thye play there tells you that Knox would likely take that spot. In IND he'd be as good as Collie or Garcon, maybe better.I see what MDSkinner said, I just think the Cutler thing is more perception than substance. The Bears have lost games that Cutler's given away. IMO they wouldn't with Orton. Maybe it's fair to think Orton coudln't make all the throws Cutler could, but he hasn't really been asked to in the NFL. And when he was at Purdue he demonstrated he could when asked. I just think the Bears traded one QB with weaknesses, for another QB with just as many, though a different set, of weakness. :shrug:

I don't dislike Cutler, he's got a lot of physical tools. I just don't think he was an upgrade over Orton.

 
The Pats start more than 2 WRs usually.. Welker is a slot guy, Moss is a flanker. They typically have another flanker, and the fact I can't even think of who thye play there tells you that Knox would likely take that spot. In IND he'd be as good as Collie or Garcon, maybe better.I see what MDSkinner said, I just think the Cutler thing is more perception than substance. The Bears have lost games that Cutler's given away. IMO they wouldn't with Orton. Maybe it's fair to think Orton coudln't make all the throws Cutler could, but he hasn't really been asked to in the NFL. And when he was at Purdue he demonstrated he could when asked. I just think the Bears traded one QB with weaknesses, for another QB with just as many, though a different set, of weakness. :goodposting:I don't dislike Cutler, he's got a lot of physical tools. I just don't think he was an upgrade over Orton.
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Well I'm not trying to split hairs, but my point was that any of the Bears WRs would be a #3 at best on the Pats or Colts. There's some case against that for the Colts because of the injury to Gonzalez, but they also have Dallas Clark who is really their #2 option. Not to mention both of those teams have a bonafide #1 WR to draw coverage away from those other guys and open things up for them, something the Bears sorely lack.I have nothing against Orton, he's a good solid QB, but when he played here I never saw him as someone who could carry the team on his back and lead them to victory. As a fan, I knew our forumla to winning was to play good defense, run the ball and have solid but not spectacular play out of the QB position. There's a reason Orton hasn't been asked to make all the throws Cutler does. Even if he is capable of it, it's never been necessary to take that kind of risk on the teams he played on. Like MD said, Orton isn't going to lose many games for you, but Cutler is a guy who can actually go out and make plays to win them for you, which is what this Bears team needs. When you have an average D and a stagnant running game, a "game manager" QB isn't going to cut it.
 
Maurile Tremblay said:
The_Wolfman said:
Orton wasn't asked to do much last year. Make smart throws, manage the game, avoid turnovers and lean on the running game and D, which he did very capably.
Click to expand...
They should ask Cutler to do those things. Seriously, what's the harm in asking? The worst he can say is no.
Click to expand...
:bag: ps

pats 'third' receiver is special team superstar sam aiken --- they whacked galloway, and are in the process of breaking in brandon tate.

it is hilarious that at the time of the trade, the 'orton backers' and 'cutler haters', if you want to call them that, saw this as a great experiment of the individual vs the team, as they would point out that cutler benefitted from a far superior surrounding unit last year, and were skeptical he could maintain production with that sorry bears cast orton had to work with, while 'cutler lovers' were screaming "superbowlllllllll!!!"

now, after the roosters have inevitably come home to roost, or whatever, all these cutler lovers are throwing this exact same stuff up in everybody's face like they just discovered electricity.

 
MDSkinner said:
However, as a Bears homer, I can absolutely say that I feel better going into games with Cutler than I ever did with Orton. And every single game this year, I have felt that there was a chance to win it in the end with him.
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yeah, they weren't winning at the end of that cincy game, brutha --- that hospital must've had you on a morphine drip.
 
switz said:
The_Wolfman said:
switz said:
Anybody who thinks Orton would be better with this O-line, please explain to me how in gods name that is possible. The only thing keeping this offense alive and respectable is Cutler's ability to move around in the pocket, roll out, and run for first downs. Orton would be in a coma by now.

how about you explain to me why orton was the fall guy on that team last year, while this year it'd everybody's fault BUT the qb.

people were jumping up and down peeing themselves because of this qb switch, now everybody's saying it's all the surroundng team that matters when cutler throws 11 picks and takes 15 sacks, while orton leads the nfl in 4th quarter qb rating.

if you think peyton manning and brady don't take many sacks, or throw many picks simply due to their offense lines, you're out of your mind.

Last I checked, more of a passing threat should open up things for the running game. So if Cutler is such an improvement at QB, why don't defenses respect the pass at all?

And you are way underselling the Bears WRs... Knox is young, but he'd be a starter on the Colts and Pats IMO. Hester shouldn't be used as a starting WR, but I believe if he were on the Colts or Pats he would be used in the slot at times as well.

And if you want to knock the Bears WRs this year, then what the heck did Orton have to throw to last year? Knox wasn't even there, and Hester was even MORE raw. Ridiculous how many excuses Cutler gets, while Orton won the same number of games, threw less INTs, with a worse supporting cast.
Click to expand...
So who would you start him over, Moss or Welker?
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The Pats start more than 2 WRs usually.. Welker is a slot guy, Moss is a flanker. They typically have another flanker, and the fact I can't even think of who thye play there tells you that Knox would likely take that spot. In IND he'd be as good as Collie or Garcon, maybe better.I see what MDSkinner said, I just think the Cutler thing is more perception than substance. The Bears have lost games that Cutler's given away. IMO they wouldn't with Orton. Maybe it's fair to think Orton coudln't make all the throws Cutler could, but he hasn't really been asked to in the NFL. And when he was at Purdue he demonstrated he could when asked. I just think the Bears traded one QB with weaknesses, for another QB with just as many, though a different set, of weakness. :D

I don't dislike Cutler, he's got a lot of physical tools. I just don't think he was an upgrade over Orton.
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While you are trying to sound intelligent with all of the flanker talk...be educated. Moss plays both Flanker(Z) and Split end(X). Welker plays the slot(Y or W) as well as the outside at times.Over the last 8 games last season Orton had 8 TD's and 8 INT's. If you watched the games...he single handedly lost games or tried to but the D/ST's won them for the Bears.

 
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tdmills said:
Over the last 8 games last season Orton had 8 TD's and 8 INT's. If you watched the games...he single handedly lost games or tried to but the D/ST's won them for the Bears.
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I believe Orton was banged up in the second half of last season, but he is allowed to have excuses for losing games or not playing well, unlike Cutler. When Cutler's team loses, it is always his fault. Defense gives up 45 points? Cutler's fault. Offensive line stinks? Cutler's fault. Eight RBs on IR? Cutler's fault. Catch my drift?
 
Kool-Aid Larry said:
MDSkinner said:
However, as a Bears homer, I can absolutely say that I feel better going into games with Cutler than I ever did with Orton. And every single game this year, I have felt that there was a chance to win it in the end with him.
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yeah, they weren't winning at the end of that cincy game, brutha --- that hospital must've had you on a morphine drip.
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Actually yes, it was a morphine drip. I have absolutely no idea of anything between Thursday and Tuesday of that week, so I absolutely admit that I have no clue about that game. The other games, the feeling was there. Maybe I was lucky to have been forced into a couple of surgeries prior to that game cause the box score is not pretty.
 
Ghost Rider said:
tdmills said:
Over the last 8 games last season Orton had 8 TD's and 8 INT's. If you watched the games...he single handedly lost games or tried to but the D/ST's won them for the Bears.
Click to expand...
I believe Orton was banged up in the second half of last season, but he is allowed to have excuses for losing games or not playing well, unlike Cutler. When Cutler's team loses, it is always his fault. Defense gives up 45 points? Cutler's fault. Offensive line stinks? Cutler's fault. Eight RBs on IR? Cutler's fault. Catch my drift?
Click to expand...
yeah, constantly giving the ball back to the other offense actually does help them score points, fyi.
 
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Kool-Aid Larry said:
Ghost Rider said:
tdmills said:
Over the last 8 games last season Orton had 8 TD's and 8 INT's. If you watched the games...he single handedly lost games or tried to but the D/ST's won them for the Bears.
Click to expand...
I believe Orton was banged up in the second half of last season, but he is allowed to have excuses for losing games or not playing well, unlike Cutler. When Cutler's team loses, it is always his fault. Defense gives up 45 points? Cutler's fault. Offensive line stinks? Cutler's fault. Eight RBs on IR? Cutler's fault. Catch my drift?
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yeah, constantly giving the ball back to the other offense actually does help them score points, fyi.
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The Bengals scored touchdowns on four straight possessions before Cutler committed his first turnover, but that is still Cutler's fault, right? See, this is how absurd of the criticism of him his. For anyone to suggest that he is most at fault in a game (not saying you did that, but others have) that the team lost 45-10 is just stupid. When you lose 45-10, that is on the whole team. A single player is not solely responsible or even mostly responsible for a 35-point loss. Cutler has his flaws he needs to work on, that is obvious to everyone, but the blame that gets thrown his way sometimes is just laughable. He could throw 5 TDs and O INTs in a 38-35 loss and some of his critics would blame the defensive struggles on him.
 
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Kool-Aid Larry said:
Ghost Rider said:
tdmills said:
Over the last 8 games last season Orton had 8 TD's and 8 INT's. If you watched the games...he single handedly lost games or tried to but the D/ST's won them for the Bears.
Click to expand...
I believe Orton was banged up in the second half of last season, but he is allowed to have excuses for losing games or not playing well, unlike Cutler. When Cutler's team loses, it is always his fault. Defense gives up 45 points? Cutler's fault. Offensive line stinks? Cutler's fault. Eight RBs on IR? Cutler's fault. Catch my drift?
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yeah, constantly giving the ball back to the other offense actually does help them score points, fyi.
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Err... drive chart:1. Cinci- 77 yards, TD

2. Bears- punt

3. Cinci- 80 yards, TD

4. Bears- punt

5. Cinci- 63 yards, TD

6. Bears- fumble

7.Cinci- 66 yards, TD

How would Orton have game managed his way out of a 28 point deficit, all before Cutler threw a single INT?

 
Kool-Aid Larry said:
Ghost Rider said:
tdmills said:
Over the last 8 games last season Orton had 8 TD's and 8 INT's. If you watched the games...he single handedly lost games or tried to but the D/ST's won them for the Bears.
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I believe Orton was banged up in the second half of last season, but he is allowed to have excuses for losing games or not playing well, unlike Cutler. When Cutler's team loses, it is always his fault. Defense gives up 45 points? Cutler's fault. Offensive line stinks? Cutler's fault. Eight RBs on IR? Cutler's fault. Catch my drift?
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yeah, constantly giving the ball back to the other offense actually does help them score points, fyi.
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Your right....he should've stopped those 7 straight scoring drives.Drives(in yards): 77, 80, 63, 66, 6, 63, 53.

 
Ghost Rider said:
The Bengals scored touchdowns on four straight possessions before Cutler committed his first turnover, but that is still Cutler's fault, right? See, this is how absusome of the criticism of him his. For anyone to suggest that he is most at fault in a game (not saying you did that, but others have) that the team lost 45-10 is just stupid. When you lose 45-10, that is on the whole team. A single player is not solely responsible or even mostly responsible for a 35-point loss. Cutler has his flaws he needs to work on, that is obvious to everyone, but the blame that gets thrown his way sometimes is just laughable. He could throw 5 TDs and O INTs in a 38-35 loss and some of his critics would blame the defensive struggles on him.
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yeah!!
 
tdmills said:
switz said:
The_Wolfman said:
switz said:
Anybody who thinks Orton would be better with this O-line, please explain to me how in gods name that is possible. The only thing keeping this offense alive and respectable is Cutler's ability to move around in the pocket, roll out, and run for first downs. Orton would be in a coma by now.

how about you explain to me why orton was the fall guy on that team last year, while this year it'd everybody's fault BUT the qb.

people were jumping up and down peeing themselves because of this qb switch, now everybody's saying it's all the surroundng team that matters when cutler throws 11 picks and takes 15 sacks, while orton leads the nfl in 4th quarter qb rating.

if you think peyton manning and brady don't take many sacks, or throw many picks simply due to their offense lines, you're out of your mind.

Last I checked, more of a passing threat should open up things for the running game. So if Cutler is such an improvement at QB, why don't defenses respect the pass at all?

And you are way underselling the Bears WRs... Knox is young, but he'd be a starter on the Colts and Pats IMO. Hester shouldn't be used as a starting WR, but I believe if he were on the Colts or Pats he would be used in the slot at times as well.

And if you want to knock the Bears WRs this year, then what the heck did Orton have to throw to last year? Knox wasn't even there, and Hester was even MORE raw. Ridiculous how many excuses Cutler gets, while Orton won the same number of games, threw less INTs, with a worse supporting cast.
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So who would you start him over, Moss or Welker?
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The Pats start more than 2 WRs usually.. Welker is a slot guy, Moss is a flanker. They typically have another flanker, and the fact I can't even think of who thye play there tells you that Knox would likely take that spot. In IND he'd be as good as Collie or Garcon, maybe better.I see what MDSkinner said, I just think the Cutler thing is more perception than substance. The Bears have lost games that Cutler's given away. IMO they wouldn't with Orton. Maybe it's fair to think Orton coudln't make all the throws Cutler could, but he hasn't really been asked to in the NFL. And when he was at Purdue he demonstrated he could when asked. I just think the Bears traded one QB with weaknesses, for another QB with just as many, though a different set, of weakness. :rolleyes:

I don't dislike Cutler, he's got a lot of physical tools. I just don't think he was an upgrade over Orton.
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While you are trying to sound intelligent with all of the flanker talk...be educated. Moss plays both Flanker(Z) and Split end(X). Welker plays the slot(Y or W) as well as the outside at times.
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:lmao: Sorry I wasn't specific enough for you. I was speaking in generalities, but if you want me to break down exactly how many times each plays from which position, I can. :tumbleweed: Love how you totally miss the point of my post... and you tell me to be educated...

tdmills said:
Over the last 8 games last season Orton had 8 TD's and 8 INT's. If you watched the games...he single handedly lost games or tried to but the D/ST's won them for the Bears.
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Orton also was supposed to miss a significant number of those games due to an ankle injury, and he gutted it out for the team. That's why he was one of the most popular guys in the locker room in CHI, and is in DEN as well. If you want to accuse someone of not knowing what they are talking about, look in the mirror first.
 
mbuehner said:
Kool-Aid Larry said:
Ghost Rider said:
tdmills said:
Over the last 8 games last season Orton had 8 TD's and 8 INT's. If you watched the games...he single handedly lost games or tried to but the D/ST's won them for the Bears.
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I believe Orton was banged up in the second half of last season, but he is allowed to have excuses for losing games or not playing well, unlike Cutler. When Cutler's team loses, it is always his fault. Defense gives up 45 points? Cutler's fault. Offensive line stinks? Cutler's fault. Eight RBs on IR? Cutler's fault. Catch my drift?
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yeah, constantly giving the ball back to the other offense actually does help them score points, fyi.
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Err... drive chart:1. Cinci- 77 yards, TD

2. Bears- punt

3. Cinci- 80 yards, TD

4. Bears- punt

5. Cinci- 63 yards, TD

6. Bears- fumble

7.Cinci- 66 yards, TD

How would Orton have game managed his way out of a 28 point deficit, all before Cutler threw a single INT?
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Maybe they wouldn't have had to punt on their first two drives, or give the ball away on their third. :tumbleweed: You do realize when you can't sustain a drive, or even convert it into a FG, the result is the other team gets the ball.

 
switz said:
tdmills said:
switz said:
The Pats start more than 2 WRs usually.. Welker is a slot guy, Moss is a flanker. They typically have another flanker, and the fact I can't even think of who thye play there tells you that Knox would likely take that spot. In IND he'd be as good as Collie or Garcon, maybe better.

I see what MDSkinner said, I just think the Cutler thing is more perception than substance. The Bears have lost games that Cutler's given away. IMO they wouldn't with Orton. Maybe it's fair to think Orton coudln't make all the throws Cutler could, but he hasn't really been asked to in the NFL. And when he was at Purdue he demonstrated he could when asked. I just think the Bears traded one QB with weaknesses, for another QB with just as many, though a different set, of weakness. :lmao:

I don't dislike Cutler, he's got a lot of physical tools. I just don't think he was an upgrade over Orton.
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While you are trying to sound intelligent with all of the flanker talk...be educated. Moss plays both Flanker(Z) and Split end(X). Welker plays the slot(Y or W) as well as the outside at times.
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:nerd: Sorry I wasn't specific enough for you. I was speaking in generalities, but if you want me to break down exactly how many times each plays from which position, I can. :heart: Love how you totally miss the point of my post... and you tell me to be educated...

You were trying to disprove someone regarding positions and you weren't even correct. That would be an educational lesson for you.

tdmills said:
Over the last 8 games last season Orton had 8 TD's and 8 INT's. If you watched the games...he single handedly lost games or tried to but the D/ST's won them for the Bears.
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Orton also was supposed to miss a significant number of those games due to an ankle injury, and he gutted it out for the team. That's why he was one of the most popular guys in the locker room in CHI, and is in DEN as well. If you want to accuse someone of not knowing what they are talking about, look in the mirror first.
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Completely different offenses....Purdue(Joe Tiller spread) adn Chicago (Ron Turner I form). He didn't perform well in Chicago which is why he was replaced. He was asked to make throws and he simply couldn't do it. He can complete passes within 10 yards of the LOS(look at his stats from last week) but not many deep passes.Oh and the Patriots other SE/Flanker is Sam Aiken/Brandon Tate is getting some reps this week....some more education for you....b/c you didn't know.


 
tdmills said:
switz said:
tdmills said:
switz said:
The Pats start more than 2 WRs usually.. Welker is a slot guy, Moss is a flanker. They typically have another flanker, and the fact I can't even think of who thye play there tells you that Knox would likely take that spot. In IND he'd be as good as Collie or Garcon, maybe better.

I see what MDSkinner said, I just think the Cutler thing is more perception than substance. The Bears have lost games that Cutler's given away. IMO they wouldn't with Orton. Maybe it's fair to think Orton coudln't make all the throws Cutler could, but he hasn't really been asked to in the NFL. And when he was at Purdue he demonstrated he could when asked. I just think the Bears traded one QB with weaknesses, for another QB with just as many, though a different set, of weakness. :shock:

I don't dislike Cutler, he's got a lot of physical tools. I just don't think he was an upgrade over Orton.
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While you are trying to sound intelligent with all of the flanker talk...be educated. Moss plays both Flanker(Z) and Split end(X). Welker plays the slot(Y or W) as well as the outside at times.
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:wall: Sorry I wasn't specific enough for you. I was speaking in generalities, but if you want me to break down exactly how many times each plays from which position, I can. :popcorn: Love how you totally miss the point of my post... and you tell me to be educated...
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You were trying to disprove someone regarding positions and you weren't even correct. That would be an educational lesson for you.Oh and the Patriots other SE/Flanker is Sam Aiken/Brandon Tate is getting some reps this week....some more education for you....b/c you didn't know.
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Seriously? You tried to tell me I was wrong by stating that yes indeed, Moss does play flanker, and Welker does play slot, and the other WR also plays flanker. How you can even try to spin your comment into educating me is beyond idiotic.
 
I've seen the 8 RBs excuse made a few times now, can this please stop. The Broncos averaged 4.8 a carry and had the #12 rushing offense.

 
switz said:
mbuehner said:
Kool-Aid Larry said:
Ghost Rider said:
tdmills said:
Over the last 8 games last season Orton had 8 TD's and 8 INT's. If you watched the games...he single handedly lost games or tried to but the D/ST's won them for the Bears.
Click to expand...
I believe Orton was banged up in the second half of last season, but he is allowed to have excuses for losing games or not playing well, unlike Cutler. When Cutler's team loses, it is always his fault. Defense gives up 45 points? Cutler's fault. Offensive line stinks? Cutler's fault. Eight RBs on IR? Cutler's fault. Catch my drift?
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yeah, constantly giving the ball back to the other offense actually does help them score points, fyi.
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Err... drive chart:1. Cinci- 77 yards, TD

2. Bears- punt

3. Cinci- 80 yards, TD

4. Bears- punt

5. Cinci- 63 yards, TD

6. Bears- fumble

7.Cinci- 66 yards, TD

How would Orton have game managed his way out of a 28 point deficit, all before Cutler threw a single INT?
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Maybe they wouldn't have had to punt on their first two drives, or give the ball away on their third. :hifive: You do realize when you can't sustain a drive, or even convert it into a FG, the result is the other team gets the ball.
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Oh, I get it. A 'good' QB scores a touchdown on every drive. That way if his team gives up 5 straight touchdowns, they are still tied. That's how Kyle Orton does it, right? Hallmark of a great game managing QB that they just drive down the field every possession and make sure your WRs don't fumble and your RB doesnt get stuffed at the LOS and you dont get sacked and nobody gets penalized and your receivers make it to the sticks and dont drop balls. That's the Orton way. How to be a good QB- score every possession, but don't take any chances. Thanks for that valuable insight. :rolleyes: What happened in Baltimore, by the way? Somebody forget the rules? Talk about dumb QBs, forgetting to score every drive?

 
switz said:
The Pats start more than 2 WRs usually.. Welker is a slot guy, Moss is a flanker. They typically have another flanker, and the fact I can't even think of who thye play there tells you that Knox would likely take that spot. In IND he'd be as good as Collie or Garcon, maybe better.

I see what MDSkinner said, I just think the Cutler thing is more perception than substance. The Bears have lost games that Cutler's given away. IMO they wouldn't with Orton. Maybe it's fair to think Orton coudln't make all the throws Cutler could, but he hasn't really been asked to in the NFL. And when he was at Purdue he demonstrated he could when asked. I just think the Bears traded one QB with weaknesses, for another QB with just as many, though a different set, of weakness. :lmao:

I don't dislike Cutler, he's got a lot of physical tools. I just don't think he was an upgrade over Orton.
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With the Bears, routes down the field were always run but until last year, Orton showed a lack of confidence in his own abilities and repeatedly checked down sometimes before receivers could get open down the field. At the beginning of last year, he was very good for the most part and began to stretch the field with his throws. He wasn't too consistent with those throws but hit on a few down the field. Upon returning from his injury, he repeatedly missed Hester and other receivers open down the field because he was horribly inaccurate. I admit that I have not watched many Bronco games this year. Is Orton stretching the field with his throws and how consistently accurate is he? If he proves capable of that, he can be a good NFL QB. He is a great teammate and locker room presence. He is basically accurate on short throws and as long as he has a quick read and throw, he can produce. I just wonder that if those quick reads are taken away, how good is he or will he play.

It seems to me that Cutler has more than a much stronger and accurate arm than Orton. He analyzes multiple progressions much quicker than Orton ever did as a Bear. He gives his team the ability to have multiple route combinations to take advantage of the tendencies of a defense.

Now granted, it seems that a majority of Cutler's throws this year are very quick and short but he also often has no help from his o line. In addition, he forces throws way to often.

I look at Orton like a young Brady in some respects in that NE style offense. A ton of short throws and rarely taking shots down the field. Cutler has the potential to be a current Brady who can quickly read a defense, make all the throws accurately and stretch a defense to allow for a much more explosive offense. No, I don't think Cutler will ever be as good as Brady due to his decision making. But, I feel the ceiling of the Bears offense is much higher with Cutler and the floor is about the same with Cutler's accurate throws down the field canceling out his tendency to turn the ball over.

 
switz said:
Maybe they wouldn't have had to punt on their first two drives, or give the ball away on their third. :blackdot:You do realize when you can't sustain a drive, or even convert it into a FG, the result is the other team gets the ball.
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You're being more then a little obtuse here Switz. After all, there's about FORTY FRIGGIN YARDS of field position differance between the average punt and the average turnover.Cutler is nowhere close to at fault for the Bear's struggles this year...much like Orton really wasn't to blame last year.Orton is a decent QB in the right system, but Cutler's ceiling is much, much higher.A lot of folks are selling the Chicago WR's a bit short in here though. Hester has become a legit starter, albeit a weak #1, and Knox/Bennett are not exactly scrap heap material. Bottom half of the NFL for sure, but not terrible, and not without pretty decent upside hope for next year and beyond....all three are young and inexperianced.
 
switz said:
tdmills said:
switz said:
tdmills said:
switz said:
The Pats start more than 2 WRs usually.. Welker is a slot guy, Moss is a flanker. They typically have another flanker, and the fact I can't even think of who thye play there tells you that Knox would likely take that spot. In IND he'd be as good as Collie or Garcon, maybe better.

I see what MDSkinner said, I just think the Cutler thing is more perception than substance. The Bears have lost games that Cutler's given away. IMO they wouldn't with Orton. Maybe it's fair to think Orton coudln't make all the throws Cutler could, but he hasn't really been asked to in the NFL. And when he was at Purdue he demonstrated he could when asked. I just think the Bears traded one QB with weaknesses, for another QB with just as many, though a different set, of weakness. :lmao:

I don't dislike Cutler, he's got a lot of physical tools. I just don't think he was an upgrade over Orton.
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While you are trying to sound intelligent with all of the flanker talk...be educated. Moss plays both Flanker(Z) and Split end(X). Welker plays the slot(Y or W) as well as the outside at times.
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:lmao: Sorry I wasn't specific enough for you. I was speaking in generalities, but if you want me to break down exactly how many times each plays from which position, I can. :yes: Love how you totally miss the point of my post... and you tell me to be educated...
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You were trying to disprove someone regarding positions and you weren't even correct. That would be an educational lesson for you.Oh and the Patriots other SE/Flanker is Sam Aiken/Brandon Tate is getting some reps this week....some more education for you....b/c you didn't know.
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Seriously? You tried to tell me I was wrong by stating that yes indeed, Moss does play flanker, and Welker does play slot, and the other WR also plays flanker. How you can even try to spin your comment into educating me is beyond idiotic.
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Moss sometimes plays Flanker....but mostly Split End. And Welker mostly plays the slot, but sometimes at Flanker and Split end.Because the offense has to have 7 players on the LOS. So with a Flanker and a Flanker....both slots or TE's would have to be on the LOS. Which would totally defeat the main purpose of a slot WR(they can't fight Jams....which is why they are off the line or motion).

If you stated Split End and Split end....then it is more feasable because they could both be on the LOS on the outside.

This is an education in positions. Let me know if you need more.

 
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tdmills said:
switz said:
tdmills said:
switz said:
tdmills said:
While you are trying to sound intelligent with all of the flanker talk...be educated. Moss plays both Flanker(Z) and Split end(X). Welker plays the slot(Y or W) as well as the outside at times.
Click to expand...
:blackdot: Sorry I wasn't specific enough for you. I was speaking in generalities, but if you want me to break down exactly how many times each plays from which position, I can. :X Love how you totally miss the point of my post... and you tell me to be educated...
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You were trying to disprove someone regarding positions and you weren't even correct. That would be an educational lesson for you.Oh and the Patriots other SE/Flanker is Sam Aiken/Brandon Tate is getting some reps this week....some more education for you....b/c you didn't know.
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Seriously? You tried to tell me I was wrong by stating that yes indeed, Moss does play flanker, and Welker does play slot, and the other WR also plays flanker. How you can even try to spin your comment into educating me is beyond idiotic.
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Moss sometimes plays Flanker....but mostly Split End. And Welker mostly plays the slot, but sometimes at Flanker and Split end.Because the offense has to have 7 players on the LOS. So with a Flanker and a Flanker....both slots or TE's would have to be on the LOS. Which would totally defeat the main purpose of a slot WR(they can't fight Jams....which is why they are off the line or motion).

If you stated Split End and Split end....then it is more feasable because they could both be on the LOS on the outside.

This is an education in positions trying to look smart when you aren't. Let me know if you need more.
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Fixed. As I said before I was speaking in generalities. Trying to find fault in what I said, when none of it was wrong makes you look very immature, and as though you really don't have an argument. Which you don't.

Quit while you're ahead. Seriously.

 
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boubucarow said:
Cutler has the potential to be a current Brady
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I would like to put my foot through the internet and kick you in the balls for that.to put this in perspective, cutler has more picks than both off-the-marcus russell and derek anderson, while only 2 fewer than league leading jake delhomme, after coming in only behind pick machine brett favre last year.couple that with 7 fumbles (I believe league leader has 8).orton doesn't have a single pick all year, unless you count the hail mary.cutler currently has only 3 fewer picks in 7 games than tom brady's high for an entire season.
 
Kool-Aid Larry said:
boubucarow said:
Cutler has the potential to be a current Brady
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I would like to put my foot through the internet and kick you in the balls for that.to put this in perspective, cutler has more picks than both off-the-marcus russell and derek anderson, while only 2 fewer than league leading jake delhomme, after coming in only behind pick machine brett favre last year.couple that with 7 fumbles (I believe league leader has 8).orton doesn't have a single pick all year, unless you count the hail mary.cutler currently has only 3 fewer picks in 7 games than tom brady's high for an entire season.
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Jay Cutler's career interception percentage is the exact same as Brett Favre's career interception percentage and a full 2.2% lower than Terry Bradshaw's career interception percentage. Jay Cutler has as many passing yards in 3 and a half years as Terry Bradshaw had through seven years.Jay Cutler is on pace to set all-time Bears single season passing yards record and all-time Bears single season completions marks this year, his first with the club.Jay has lost one fumble this year. Peyton Manning had 23 interceptions in his fourth year in the league. Dan Marino had 23 in his fourth year. Brett Favre had more than 20 interceptions in six seasons. Terry Bradshaw had 20+ in five seasons.
 
candymanvandyfan said:
Kool-Aid Larry said:
boubucarow said:
Cutler has the potential to be a current Brady
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I would like to put my foot through the internet and kick you in the balls for that.to put this in perspective, cutler has more picks than both off-the-marcus russell and derek anderson, while only 2 fewer than league leading jake delhomme, after coming in only behind pick machine brett favre last year.couple that with 7 fumbles (I believe league leader has 8).orton doesn't have a single pick all year, unless you count the hail mary.cutler currently has only 3 fewer picks in 7 games than tom brady's high for an entire season.
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Jay Cutler's career interception percentage is the exact same as Brett Favre's career interception percentage and a full 2.2% lower than Terry Bradshaw's career interception percentage. Jay Cutler has as many passing yards in 3 and a half years as Terry Bradshaw had through seven years.Jay Cutler is on pace to set all-time Bears single season passing yards record and all-time Bears single season completions marks this year, his first with the club.Jay has lost one fumble this year. Peyton Manning had 23 interceptions in his fourth year in the league. Dan Marino had 23 in his fourth year. Brett Favre had more than 20 interceptions in six seasons. Terry Bradshaw had 20+ in five seasons.
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Problem is...Favre made up for it by throwing more TDs than Cutler is.And winning more games.Also...comparing him to the all time leader in career interceptions...probably not the best passing category to be close to Favre on.
 
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candymanvandyfan said:
Jay Cutler's career interception percentage is the exact same as Brett Favre's career interception percentage and a full 2.2% lower than Terry Bradshaw's career interception percentage. Jay Cutler has as many passing yards in 3 and a half years as Terry Bradshaw had through seven years....Brett Favre had more than 20 interceptions in six seasons. Terry Bradshaw had 20+ in five seasons.
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Favre and Bradshaw played in an entirely different era. Interception rates in general were much higher in the 1970s.
 
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Zigg said:
I've seen the 8 RBs excuse made a few times now, can this please stop. The Broncos averaged 4.8 a carry and had the #12 rushing offense.
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ya, and cutler had nothing to do with it. of course, cutler should shoulder the blame for why forte is atrocious this year. double standards itt.
 
switz said:
The_Wolfman said:
Kool-Aid Larry said:
mbuehner said:
Anybody who thinks Orton would be better with this O-line, please explain to me how in gods name that is possible. The only thing keeping this offense alive and respectable is Cutler's ability to move around in the pocket, roll out, and run for first downs. Orton would be in a coma by now.
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how about you explain to me why orton was the fall guy on that team last year, while this year it'd everybody's fault BUT the qb.people were jumping up and down peeing themselves because of this qb switch, now everybody's saying it's all the surroundng team that matters when cutler throws 11 picks and takes 15 sacks, while orton leads the nfl in 4th quarter qb rating.

if you think peyton manning and brady don't take many sacks, or throw many picks simply due to their offense lines, you're out of your mind.
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Orton wasn't asked to do much last year. Make smart throws, manage the game, avoid turnovers and lean on the running game and D, which he did very capably. This year, the runnning game has been all but non-existent and the D has been significantly worse, neither of which you can realistically blame on Cutler.Would any of the Bears' WRs be starters or even play any significant time at all on the Colts or Patriots? We certainly don't have anyone even close to the skill set and ability of a Reggie Wayne or Randy Moss, you're kidding yourself if you don't think that having a go-to guy like that makes a big difference. And those are two Hall of Fame QBs you are talking about, I don't think anyone is trying to contend Cutler is in the same class as them, but I'd still take him over the majority of the starting QBs in the league right now.
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Last I checked, more of a passing threat should open up things for the running game. So if Cutler is such an improvement at QB, why don't defenses respect the pass at all?And you are way underselling the Bears WRs... Knox is young, but he'd be a starter on the Colts and Pats IMO. Hester shouldn't be used as a starting WR, but I believe if he were on the Colts or Pats he would be used in the slot at times as well.

And if you want to knock the Bears WRs this year, then what the heck did Orton have to throw to last year? Knox wasn't even there, and Hester was even MORE raw. Ridiculous how many excuses Cutler gets, while Orton won the same number of games, threw less INTs, with a worse supporting cast.
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'I believe orton had Lloyd Booker and hester. Veterens...yup

 
BigA said:
switz said:
The_Wolfman said:
Kool-Aid Larry said:
mbuehner said:
Anybody who thinks Orton would be better with this O-line, please explain to me how in gods name that is possible. The only thing keeping this offense alive and respectable is Cutler's ability to move around in the pocket, roll out, and run for first downs. Orton would be in a coma by now.
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how about you explain to me why orton was the fall guy on that team last year, while this year it'd everybody's fault BUT the qb.people were jumping up and down peeing themselves because of this qb switch, now everybody's saying it's all the surroundng team that matters when cutler throws 11 picks and takes 15 sacks, while orton leads the nfl in 4th quarter qb rating.

if you think peyton manning and brady don't take many sacks, or throw many picks simply due to their offense lines, you're out of your mind.
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Orton wasn't asked to do much last year. Make smart throws, manage the game, avoid turnovers and lean on the running game and D, which he did very capably. This year, the runnning game has been all but non-existent and the D has been significantly worse, neither of which you can realistically blame on Cutler.Would any of the Bears' WRs be starters or even play any significant time at all on the Colts or Patriots? We certainly don't have anyone even close to the skill set and ability of a Reggie Wayne or Randy Moss, you're kidding yourself if you don't think that having a go-to guy like that makes a big difference. And those are two Hall of Fame QBs you are talking about, I don't think anyone is trying to contend Cutler is in the same class as them, but I'd still take him over the majority of the starting QBs in the league right now.
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Last I checked, more of a passing threat should open up things for the running game. So if Cutler is such an improvement at QB, why don't defenses respect the pass at all?And you are way underselling the Bears WRs... Knox is young, but he'd be a starter on the Colts and Pats IMO. Hester shouldn't be used as a starting WR, but I believe if he were on the Colts or Pats he would be used in the slot at times as well.

And if you want to knock the Bears WRs this year, then what the heck did Orton have to throw to last year? Knox wasn't even there, and Hester was even MORE raw. Ridiculous how many excuses Cutler gets, while Orton won the same number of games, threw less INTs, with a worse supporting cast.
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'I believe orton had Lloyd Booker and hester. Veterens...yup
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You believe wrong. Hester was in his first year as a WR, not a veteran.Booker was 32 and washed up, only played in 13 games, started only 5. He is so bad, that the WR starved Dolphins let him go.

Lloyd has never been a good WR in the first place, but only played 11 games, and started only 5.

The two "starters" were Hester (his first season playing WR), and Rashied Davis who was also primarily a return man, and had his best year as a WR last season with Orton, but has been relegated to the 4th or 5th WR slot this year because he's not as good as Knox or Bennett or Hester.

Orton had way worse receivers last year to work with.

 
Kool-Aid Larry said:
boubucarow said:
Cutler has the potential to be a current Brady
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I would like to put my foot through the internet and kick you in the balls for that.to put this in perspective, cutler has more picks than both off-the-marcus russell and derek anderson, while only 2 fewer than league leading jake delhomme, after coming in only behind pick machine brett favre last year.couple that with 7 fumbles (I believe league leader has 8).orton doesn't have a single pick all year, unless you count the hail mary.cutler currently has only 3 fewer picks in 7 games than tom brady's high for an entire season.
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I like how you quote that statement in isolation. I was referring to his ability to scan a defense quickly and make a solid accurate throw anywhere on the field. I then stated that he will never be as good as Brady because of his decision making that leads him to throw the ball in spots that he things he can force it in and he can't.
 
You believe wrong. Hester was in his first year as a WR, not a veteran.Booker was 32 and washed up, only played in 13 games, started only 5. He is so bad, that the WR starved Dolphins let him go.Lloyd has never been a good WR in the first place, but only played 11 games, and started only 5.The two "starters" were Hester (his first season playing WR), and Rashied Davis who was also primarily a return man, and had his best year as a WR last season with Orton, but has been relegated to the 4th or 5th WR slot this year because he's not as good as Knox or Bennett or Hester.Orton had way worse receivers last year to work with.
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I think we can all agree Orton's got WAY better now. Cutler's problem isn't the skill of his WRs (although they are far from elite), its his O-line, absolute lack of running game, and inexperienced WRs. When the defense breaks down and the offense is forced to play catchup, they are going to be in deep deep trouble. This line can't protect him to begin with, when the d-line can pin their ears back and because they know its a pass, Cutler is going to have guys in his face all day long, which it exactly what happen in Cinci. Cutler didn't play well by any means, but no QB would under those circumstances, particularly an immobile QB. Cutlers feet have been a HUGE boon for he Bears, and he's used them with guts and decisiveness. And say what you want about the Bears WRs, they ARE incredibly green. That was showcased in Green Bay when they weren't breaking off their routes when Cutler was flushed off, etc. Brandon Lloyd (had 5 years in league starting 08), Rashied Davis (had 2 years in league), and Marty Booker (nine years) weren't superstars, but they DID have some experience (certainly in Bookers case) and that is something extremely important to consider. The Bears most experienced WR is Hester, with barely a year and a half experience at the position (which he didnt even play in college). That is a huge experience gap. There is a reason it takes a couple seasons to reach your stride as an NFL WR generally, its a much faster and more complex game at this level, and not having a veteran presence to rely on when things break down is a huge disadvantage. Orton didn't have it much better last year but he did have it some better, at least in that respect.
 
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