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Dismattle

12 tean Keeper League

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First off its a keeper league

I plan to keep at least one player (probably Gibril Wilson)

Im new to starting defensive players (new to ppr) Return yds count but most all of the players Ive looked at our taken except for Carr, and Ellis Hobbs.

I just wanted to list my team and maybe get any kind of feedback! ie Would you pickup a guy like Aaron Kampman over Revis? Should I pickup Leigh Bodden and drop Henderson? Should most all of my players play every down? Would you add Pat Chung as a keeper who you may have to play at least one week? Im considering the addition of WR Chris Henry and or I may need to trim down to seven D to cover a kickers bye...

point scoring

tackle 1.5

assist .25

Int 10

Sack 6

FF 2

FR 3

Def TD 8

Safety 4

PD .5

Block kick 4

defensive player (not limited by pos)

Gibril Wilson (Mia S) :goodposting:

Charles Tillman (Chi CB)

Darrelle Revis (NYJ CB)

Osi Umenyiora (NYG DE) Might drop and add Boley but hes out the first week...

Cortland Finnegan (Ten CB)

Brian Orakpo (Was LB?)

EJ Henderson (Min LB)

Dominque Rodgers Cromartie Arz CB)

thanx for reading and or input!

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what are your starter requirements? Looks like you have alot of DBs and not many front 7. Keep in mind I believe they moved Wilson to free safety in Miami, which will probably reduce his tackle numbers, but perhaps give him more pick opportunities.

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I just wanted to list my team and maybe get any kind of feedback! ie Would you pickup a guy like Aaron Kampman over Revis? Should I pickup Leigh Bodden and drop Henderson? Should most all of my players play every down? Would you add Pat Chung as a keeper who you may have to play at least one week? Im considering the addition of WR Chris Henry and or I may need to trim down to seven D to cover a kickers bye... Gibril Wilson (Mia S) :rolleyes: Charles Tillman (Chi CB) Darrelle Revis (NYJ CB)Osi Umenyiora (NYG DE) Might drop and add Boley but hes out the first week...Cortland Finnegan (Ten CB)Brian Orakpo (Was LB?)EJ Henderson (Min LB)Dominque Rodgers Cromartie Arz CB)thanx for reading and or input!

I'd rather have the big play upside of Revis than Kampman. Unless DRC is returning kicks, I'd be more likely to cut him if you're looking to cut a corner. I think Orakpo would be my first cut, and I'd rather have Kampman than Bodden, although it's close. I wouldn't consider cutting Henderson. He's likely to be your top IDP unless one of the corners explodes with a 75 solos, 6 int season.

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what are your starter requirements? Looks like you have alot of DBs and not many front 7. Keep in mind I believe they moved Wilson to free safety in Miami, which will probably reduce his tackle numbers, but perhaps give him more pick opportunities.

Theres no requirement to start Lineman or defensive ends. I aint gonna claim to know much of anything but yeah I know about Wilson (but he was my only defensive keeper) Ill be honest and say I really dont know if its better to have a good free safety or SS (but doesnt the FS have more of a shot at a blitz resulting in a sack?) I believe the goal is to have DB's that tackle and get interceptions or LB's that tackle alot and got a shot at sacks...btw its a keeper league and we keep 12 players but along with starting 6 D, its 2 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 WR/TE, 2 WR/RB, 1 Def/ST, 1 K

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oh wow if theres not set positions, you need to fill it with 6 of the best LBs you can get. LBs will outscore DBs.

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I really just added Orakpo because hes a 1st rnd draft choice, expected to play every down. I wanted a player who could exceed expectation's like high risk high reward. I really thought Pat Chung might be that guy but I cant even verify hell start much less anything extra like return kicks or play some wildcat/ H back...

If I understand you correctly might I consider dropping DRC to add Bodden (could you explain so I might learn something). I can easily understand Kampman would be better thn Orakpo (most other early drafts are on a team)

btw heres my team (good chance I wont be able to keep many D players)

Warner, McNabb

Roddy, C Johnson

Turner, Larry Johnson

Keller

Breaston

Jerious Norwood

Gostkowski

Tenn D

Oakland D (I might post another question about Defenses) I really just plan to play Tenn every week but figure Oakland might be the best team available for Tenn bye

BN Matt Leinart, Shonne Greene and a few others

Im not sure if I made the best choice but I dropped Hansen (knee surgery) and Celek (shoulder injury) I dont know if it jumps right out at ya but alot of key players are bye week four (I can chalk up one loss b4 the season starts)

p.s. I wasnt gonna drop Henderson (I might even try to keep him for next yr)

sry for the delayed responce I was grocery shopping. I really appreciate any responces. thanx again

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oh wow if theres not set positions, you need to fill it with 6 of the best LBs you can get. LBs will outscore DBs.

Id really appreciate if you elaborate on that. I mean an interception is worth 10 points. The team that appears to have the best D players is almost split 50/50. I just added Thomas Howard just in case you read the scoring I posted earlier (plus I did make a mistake adding Orkapo anyway)Lance Briggs LBChris Gamble CBKirk Morrison LBTroy Polamalu SCharles Woodson CBD J Williams LBStephen Cooper LBAnyway so what ur saying is a player like Bart Scott should produce better thn Revis? Scott hasnt had a sack since 2005, anyway I got to get some sleep Im sitting with 3 D players @ bye week 9. I might have to lookup quite a few players to come up with all linebackers (nine times out of ten when I finad a player to consider hes already on a team or I read something like he changes for passing dwn etc...

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I really just added Orakpo because hes a 1st rnd draft choice, expected to play every down. I wanted a player who could exceed expectation's like high risk high reward. I really thought Pat Chung might be that guy but I cant even verify hell start much less anything extra like return kicks or play some wildcat/ H back...If I understand you correctly might I consider dropping DRC to add Bodden (could you explain so I might learn something). I can easily understand Kampman would be better thn Orakpo (most other early drafts are on a team)

No worries on anything. These threads go wherever you want them to go at whatever pace you like. :lmao:There's definitely a learning curve with IDPs, but it's doable. The threads and podcasts in my signature as well as the FAQ pinned in the main IDP forum are good places to start for a little extra information. There's some good general stuff in the subscriber content pinned thread and our article archives if you've got access to those, too.When I look at your scoring and lineup setups, a few general things come to mind.**You're sack-to-tackle ratio is 4:1, which is just slightly skewed to big play DL and LB talent. In general, pass rushing linebackers have to be very consistent to have value in systems like this, although the best ones have very good value. Assuming a 12 team league (72 total starters), you're going to need at least 45-50 solos and double digit sacks for a player to have above replacement level value. That's going to eliminate most defensive ends and rush linebackers.**The DBs are going to be tough to measure. The big play INT ratio is nearly 7:1. However, passes defensed are weighted minimally relative to tackles. Big play corners are attractive in this system, but they'll be inconsistent. You'll be lucky to get an interception more than 1/3 of their games and the worth of passes defensed won't make up for the tackles when they don't make a pick.**1 pt per 25 return yards will give a defensive back somewhere between a 1 and 3 solo tackle headstart (on average) over a defensive back that doesn't do returns.I think the ideal starting IDP roster here is a mix of consistent top scoring talent and a couple of big play upside guys. That way, the big play guys don't kill you when they all disappear the same week. When one of them goes off, you're adding a big number to an already solid lineup. Whether you try to roster three or four consistent guys is up to you. When faced with the option of a relatively weak consistent player and an above-average big play option, I'd go with the big play option. I think you've got the right idea, I just think you could have executed it a little differently.Based on the scoring system, I think that's probably going to mean at least three very good linebackers. Guys with solid tackle numbers and well above-average big play talent (James Harrison, DeMarcus Ware) are the elite, but there are plenty of other linebackers with 85-90 solo potential that should fill out this group. Behind them, a mix of big play corners, DBs that return kicks and start or get a lot of nickel snaps, rush defensive ends, steady safeties with big play upside, etc.Brian Orakpo falls into that category of rush OLB/SLB that may not hit the tackle/sack plateaus to have consistent value. He might hit a 50-8 year, but I think the chances of that are pretty slim. He's best suited as a high upside IDP5 or IDP6 and fits on your roster there.I'd put DRC and Bodden in the same tier -- potential big play upside guys but inconsistent -- and, unless you're certain they'll be very good (60+ solos and 5+ INTs), they probably are best left to the waiver wire. I think Revis is just good enough to consider as one of your high upside plays, but even he's borderline.I'd have to run a bunch of numbers, but I'd expect 40-45 LB, 15-20 CB, 8-12 S and 5-10 DEs to be the player pool from which most of the top 72 would come from.The roster you listed as having the best IDPs fits the above plan perfectly. 3-4 very solid LB options backed up by high upside DL/LB/DB talent.I think Henderson, Tillman and Wilson are a nice start for you, with the others rotating for upside. Ideally, though, especially if Tillman struggles to stay healthy and Wilson gets stuck in too much of a coverage role, I'd like the IDP2 and IDP3 spots to be more consistent performers. You're going to have plenty of weeks where Revis, DRC, Umenyiora, Finnegan etc produce very little, though I like Umenyiora and Finnegan in high upside starting slots for sure.

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for me it comes down to consistency. LBs are much more consistent week to week for scoring points than DBs. DBS are streaky, having a big game, and then having a game where they score you almost nothing. I like to depend on reliable tackling LBs, so I know I will always get points for those 100+ solo tackles, and a boost for the couple sacks, picks, and fumbles hes going to force. There are only a handful of elite DBs out there who can put up the big numbers, after that it can be quite the drop off. LBs on the other hand can be much deeper on value. By your scoring system for example Patrick Willis scored 205 points last year, while Chris Gamble scored 182. There are alot of good LBs who can potentially put up numbers like Willis, but there are only a handful of DBs who might put up big numbers. Generally speaking MLBs in 4-3 defenses and ILBs in 3-4s are the tacklers, while OLBs are the sack guys. So if you can grab a Harrison or a Suggs, awesome, but there are only a few big sack potential OLBs like that. Otherwise I would focus on good MLBs and ILBs who will guarantee you 110 solo tackles, 5 or 6 fumbles, maybe 3 sacks and a pick or two. I dunno what is available in your league, but guys like Willis, Ryans, Ruud, Morrison, Beason, and Vilma will put up solid numbers for you every game.

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for me it comes down to consistency. LBs are much more consistent week to week for scoring points than DBs. DBS are streaky, having a big game, and then having a game where they score you almost nothing. I like to depend on reliable tackling LBs, so I know I will always get points for those 100+ solo tackles, and a boost for the couple sacks, picks, and fumbles hes going to force. There are only a handful of elite DBs out there who can put up the big numbers, after that it can be quite the drop off. LBs on the other hand can be much deeper on value. By your scoring system for example Patrick Willis scored 205 points last year, while Chris Gamble scored 182. There are alot of good LBs who can potentially put up numbers like Willis, but there are only a handful of DBs who might put up big numbers. Generally speaking MLBs in 4-3 defenses and ILBs in 3-4s are the tacklers, while OLBs are the sack guys. So if you can grab a Harrison or a Suggs, awesome, but there are only a few big sack potential OLBs like that. Otherwise I would focus on good MLBs and ILBs who will guarantee you 110 solo tackles, 5 or 6 fumbles, maybe 3 sacks and a pick or two. I dunno what is available in your league, but guys like Willis, Ryans, Ruud, Morrison, Beason, and Vilma will put up solid numbers for you every game.

fyi I checked all them players and their already on a roster ( I believe at least 8 of the 12 know IDP ) Id say they know it to the point that when they upgraded (dropped) a player, I actually picked up the guy they dropped after trying to research the player a little...I just heard Coach Ryans (NYJ) say something to the effect that once they drafted Mark Sanchez that it didnt matter so much what Farve is doing (so I dropped Kellen Clemens and added Neil Rackers (I know he may not get many goals but he kicks indoors and I need somoene for Gostkowski's bye)...I was gonna try to cover bye week four (I had drafted players like Jordy Nelson who has some return duties) I actually dropped him already though because it appears Jones is back to form and has the advantage for the number three WR. So basically I have Shonne Greene and Earl Bennett to cover bye wk 8. I can carry 8 D players with this strategy.

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When I look at your scoring and lineup setups, a few general things come to mind.

**You're sack-to-tackle ratio is 4:1, which is just slightly skewed to big play DL and LB talent. In general, pass rushing linebackers have to be very consistent to have value in systems like this, although the best ones have very good value. Assuming a 12 team league (72 total starters), you're going to need at least 45-50 solos and double digit sacks for a player to have above replacement level value. That's going to eliminate most defensive ends and rush linebackers.

**The DBs are going to be tough to measure. The big play INT ratio is nearly 7:1. However, passes defensed are weighted minimally relative to tackles. Big play corners are attractive in this system, but they'll be inconsistent. You'll be lucky to get an interception more than 1/3 of their games and the worth of passes defensed won't make up for the tackles when they don't make a pick.

**1 pt per 25 return yards will give a defensive back somewhere between a 1 and 3 solo tackle headstart (on average) over a defensive back that doesn't do returns.

Im new to both PPR and IDP, I should have posted more info. In the Scoring and Settings page it list under offense:

Return Yards 20 yards per point; 3 points at 100 yds; 8 points at 150 yards; 10 points at 200 yards [ Return Touchdown 8 points ]

But if I look at Defense/Special Teams Return yards are listed as 100 yards per point; 3 points at 200 [ Return Touchdown 7 points ]

I really havnt a clue as to what points a CB on my team would get for return points ( I almost dont need to know because I really doubt Ill be able to grab a player who starts and does returns on defense, but if anyone cares to explain, Im listening...

I think the ideal starting IDP roster here is a mix of consistent top scoring talent and a couple of big play upside guys. That way, the big play guys don't kill you when they all disappear the same week. When one of them goes off, you're adding a big number to an already solid lineup. Whether you try to roster three or four consistent guys is up to you. When faced with the option of a relatively weak consistent player and an above-average big play option, I'd go with the big play option. I think you've got the right idea, I just think you could have executed it a little differently.

Based on the scoring system, I think that's probably going to mean at least three very good linebackers. Guys with solid tackle numbers and well above-average big play talent (James Harrison, DeMarcus Ware) are the elite, but there are plenty of other linebackers with 85-90 solo potential that should fill out this group. Behind them, a mix of big play corners, DBs that return kicks and start or get a lot of nickel snaps, rush defensive ends, steady safeties with big play upside, etc.

I'd put DRC and Bodden in the same tier -- potential big play upside guys but inconsistent -- and, unless you're certain they'll be very good (60+ solos and 5+ INTs), they probably are best left to the waiver wire. I think Revis is just good enough to consider as one of your high upside plays, but even he's borderline.

Im glad to hear that because I cant see having three D players with the same bye week. I will probably drop Revis at some point, same bye as Henderson and Howard

I'd have to run a bunch of numbers, but I'd expect 40-45 LB, 15-20 CB, 8-12 S and 5-10 DEs to be the player pool from which most of the top 72 would come from.

The roster you listed as having the best IDPs fits the above plan perfectly. 3-4 very solid LB options backed up by high upside DL/LB/DB talent.

I think Henderson, Tillman and Wilson are a nice start for you, with the others rotating for upside. Ideally, though, especially if Tillman struggles to stay healthy and Wilson gets stuck in too much of a coverage role, I'd like the IDP2 and IDP3 spots to be more consistent performers. You're going to have plenty of weeks where Revis, DRC, Umenyiora, Finnegan etc produce very little, though I like Umenyiora and Finnegan in high upside starting slots for sure.

Id be willing to bet that the 5-10 DE that you mention are taken, however it would be nice to see a ranking list for the Safety position. Most all my focus of researching players is the LB/CB pos...

I did have Ernie Sims on my team but after I dropped him, one of the guys picked him up (it was interesting because he was on the wire when I picked him up (undrafted) So maybe there is a player or two to be found that guys are not grabbing till needed or numbers show promise. Two players of interest appear to be Tracy Porter (New Orleans) and Jermaine Phillips (Tampa Bay). I would think the biggest upside for Porter might be return points? I realize Phillips is changing from DB to LB and is an injury risk but I believe still worthy of mention. Truthfully maybe both are injury risks, but Im pretty sure I will be able to follow reports closely. I will say it was no fun to have L Coles, or Cotchery on a team last yr (both players appeared to be game time decision too often) :wall:

I have to tell you I did read some of the links in ur sig. I would have enjoyed reading more of the Denver Def that earned the nickname " The Orange Crush". However I seen no mention of the doomsday defense :unsure:

p.s. Im new to this site so if you dont actually post a direct question towards me Ill just read ur post but not "bump" the thread in response.

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**1 pt per 25 return yards will give a defensive back somewhere between a 1 and 3 solo tackle headstart (on average) over a defensive back that doesn't do returns.

Im new to both PPR and IDP, I should have posted more info. In the Scoring and Settings page it list under offense:

Return Yards 20 yards per point; 3 points at 100 yds; 8 points at 150 yards; 10 points at 200 yards [ Return Touchdown 8 points ]

But if I look at Defense/Special Teams Return yards are listed as 100 yards per point; 3 points at 200 [ Return Touchdown 7 points ]

I really havnt a clue as to what points a CB on my team would get for return points ( I almost dont need to know because I really doubt Ill be able to grab a player who starts and does returns on defense, but if anyone cares to explain, Im listening...

That only lists offense and DST return scoring, so it's possible your league isn't set up for return yards for defensive players. Probably worth clarifying. The two IDPs that were listed as starters and potentially returning kicks or punts as camp started were Leodis McKelvin and Danieal Manning. McKelvin didn't return kicks in the first preseason game and Manning sat with a hamstring (and might be losing the starting FS job). There are usually a couple of nickel corners who get enough snaps to have value with the return yard bonus. There's an ongoing thread in the main forum about IDP KR/PR and I'm hoping to cover them weekly again in my column (if kerpow is again around to help).

I'd have to run a bunch of numbers, but I'd expect 40-45 LB, 15-20 CB, 8-12 S and 5-10 DEs to be the player pool from which most of the top 72 would come from.

Id be willing to bet that the 5-10 DE that you mention are taken, however it would be nice to see a ranking list for the Safety position. Most all my focus of researching players is the LB/CB pos...

Safeties I'd expect to have enough value to consider in your system would include OJ Atogwe, Yeremiah Bell, Roman Harper, Adrian Wilson, Quentin Mikell, Eric Weddle, Troy Polamalu. A few others might declare themselves as having 80 solo or well above-average big play potential early, too.

I did have Ernie Sims on my team but after I dropped him, one of the guys picked him up (it was interesting because he was on the wire when I picked him up (undrafted) So maybe there is a player or two to be found that guys are not grabbing till needed or numbers show promise. Two players of interest appear to be Tracy Porter (New Orleans) and Jermaine Phillips (Tampa Bay). I would think the biggest upside for Porter might be return points? I realize Phillips is changing from DB to LB and is an injury risk but I believe still worthy of mention. Truthfully maybe both are injury risks, but Im pretty sure I will be able to follow reports closely. I will say it was no fun to have L Coles, or Cotchery on a team last yr (both players appeared to be game time decision too often) :shrug:

I don't think Porter returns kicks. He's in that huge tier of corners who could hit 70 solos and/or 5 INTs but isn't a strong enough lock for either to consider starting unless you have a gut feeling he has a breakout season. Phillips is on the cusp of those 40 linebackers who could have value. I think he's a better risk than some of the corners in question, though.

I have to tell you I did read some of the links in ur sig. I would have enjoyed reading more of the Denver Def that earned the nickname " The Orange Crush". However I seen no mention of the doomsday defense <_<

I had a couple of requests to flesh out more of Landry's flex concepts after publishing that article. I've thought about doing some historical profiles of some of the league's best and most interesting defenses. If time permits this offseason, I'll try to work that in. Collier's Orange Crush and Landry's flex/Doomsday would definitely be on the list of those to cover.

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