By this logic, the "defense" became the "offense" again when Meachem recovered the defense's fumble.As soon as change of possession occurs, the "offense" becomes the "defense" so it obviously should be credited as a D/ST TD for the Saints. The specific player, just because he is an "offensive player" doesn't matter.
Well, then the Defense would never score except for safeties if you're going by possession of the ball.By this logic, the "defense" became the "offense" again when Meachem recovered the defense's fumble.As soon as change of possession occurs, the "offense" becomes the "defense" so it obviously should be credited as a D/ST TD for the Saints. The specific player, just because he is an "offensive player" doesn't matter.
Bingo.Well, then the Defense would never score except for safeties if you're going by possession of the ball.By this logic, the "defense" became the "offense" again when Meachem recovered the defense's fumble.As soon as change of possession occurs, the "offense" becomes the "defense" so it obviously should be credited as a D/ST TD for the Saints. The specific player, just because he is an "offensive player" doesn't matter.
You just torpedoed your own argument, by the way.Bingo.Well, then the Defense would never score except for safeties if you're going by possession of the ball.By this logic, the "defense" became the "offense" again when Meachem recovered the defense's fumble.As soon as change of possession occurs, the "offense" becomes the "defense" so it obviously should be credited as a D/ST TD for the Saints. The specific player, just because he is an "offensive player" doesn't matter.
Nah this is the scoring that is used when the offense recovers its own fumble.This is definitely a defensive fumble recovery returned for a TDThis is neither a defensive TD nor a rushing TD. It is technically a "fumble recovery TD". Check the official box score and you will see that Meachem does not get credit for any rushing yards or rushing TDs.
Now, how will this be scored? Well, most fantasy leagues will score it as an "Offensive Fumble Recovery TD", which means that you have to specifically check the "OFRTD" box when you set up your scoring.
A few leagues will count it as a Defensive TD. A few others will count it as a rushing TD. Some may give credit to both Meachem and the Defense. But the best way to score it is to give Meachem 6 points.
From MFL:Nah this is the scoring that is used when the offense recovers its own fumble.This is neither a defensive TD nor a rushing TD. It is technically a "fumble recovery TD". Check the official box score and you will see that Meachem does not get credit for any rushing yards or rushing TDs.
Now, how will this be scored? Well, most fantasy leagues will score it as an "Offensive Fumble Recovery TD", which means that you have to specifically check the "OFRTD" box when you set up your scoring.
A few leagues will count it as a Defensive TD. A few others will count it as a rushing TD. Some may give credit to both Meachem and the Defense. But the best way to score it is to give Meachem 6 points.
More arguments in favor of this ruling: Footballguys articleOffensive Fumble Recovery TD Following A Turnover.
* Scenario: Team A has the ball and passes or rushes with it.
o In a pass scenario, Team A throws an interception to Player B1 on Team B. Player B1 subsequently fumbles the ball. The recovery is made by Player A2 on Team A who runs it in for a TD.
o In a rush scenario, Player A1 on Team A fumbles the ball to Player B1 on Team B. Player B1 subsequently fumbles the ball and the resulting recovery is made by a Player A2 on Team A who runs it in for a TD.
* Result: Player A2 is awarded an ‘Offensive Fumble Recovery TD’ from the distance from the recovery to the end zone. This is not considered a Defensive Team TD because the Team A defense was not on the field.
I have Meacham as my 3rd WR in an IDP league. Does he get credited with Fumble Recovery/TD?As soon as change of possession occurs, the "offense" becomes the "defense" so it obviously should be credited as a D/ST TD for the Saints. The specific player, just because he is an "offensive player" doesn't matter.
In IDP he should most definitely get credit.I have Meacham as my 3rd WR in an IDP league. Does he get credited with Fumble Recovery/TD?As soon as change of possession occurs, the "offense" becomes the "defense" so it obviously should be credited as a D/ST TD for the Saints. The specific player, just because he is an "offensive player" doesn't matter.
Okay then, how would you score this scenario:1. Brees throws pass to Colston.2. Colston fumbles.3. Meachem recovers fumble and returns it for touchdown.For people who want to make their own set of rules and give Meachem a TD as an offensive player, a simple question:How did Meachem get the TD? Pass reception? Run?No - it was a fumble by the opposing player. This is cut and dry - not an offensive TD.
There was never a change of posession. No TD for NO defense. Meachem gets a TD with the only guestion being does Brees get points. That all depends on how the NFL scorer rules the play.Okay then, how would you score this scenario:1. Brees throws pass to Colston.2. Colston fumbles.3. Meachem recovers fumble and returns it for touchdown.For people who want to make their own set of rules and give Meachem a TD as an offensive player, a simple question:How did Meachem get the TD? Pass reception? Run?No - it was a fumble by the opposing player. This is cut and dry - not an offensive TD.
I believe that is a (offensive) fumble return for TD. A lateral gets interesting as well - dont know if it counts as a run, but maybe its rushing yards? I dont think Brees would get a TD if he passed to Colston and Colston then lateralled to another player who scored.Okay then, how would you score this scenario:1. Brees throws pass to Colston.2. Colston fumbles.3. Meachem recovers fumble and returns it for touchdown.For people who want to make their own set of rules and give Meachem a TD as an offensive player, a simple question:How did Meachem get the TD? Pass reception? Run?No - it was a fumble by the opposing player. This is cut and dry - not an offensive TD.
All that proves is that CBS is ignorant.It's a defensive TD and I'd be willing to bet anyone who says otherwise that's the way it will eventually be scored on CBS Sports
Brees gets passing yds up to the fumble spot.Colston gets receiving yds up to the fumble spot.Meachem get rushing TD yds from fumble spot.This scenario does not have a turnover.Although I think if fumbled forward. No other offensive player can recover and move forward.Okay then, how would you score this scenario:1. Brees throws pass to Colston.2. Colston fumbles.3. Meachem recovers fumble and returns it for touchdown.For people who want to make their own set of rules and give Meachem a TD as an offensive player, a simple question:How did Meachem get the TD? Pass reception? Run?No - it was a fumble by the opposing player. This is cut and dry - not an offensive TD.
My point was that it doesn't have to be a "rush" or a "pass reception" for an offensive player to get a TD. They can also score TDs on fumble recoveries, which is exactly what happened with Meachem. It doesn't really matter if there were multiple changes of possession before Meachem scored. All that matters is that he was on offense.If you're going to give Meachem a TD for the scenario I described above, then you must also give him a TD for what happened today.I believe that is a (offensive) fumble return for TD. A lateral gets interesting as well - dont know if it counts as a run, but maybe its rushing yards? I dont think Brees would get a TD if he passed to Colston and Colston then lateralled to another player who scored.Okay then, how would you score this scenario:1. Brees throws pass to Colston.2. Colston fumbles.3. Meachem recovers fumble and returns it for touchdown.For people who want to make their own set of rules and give Meachem a TD as an offensive player, a simple question:How did Meachem get the TD? Pass reception? Run?No - it was a fumble by the opposing player. This is cut and dry - not an offensive TD.
Meachem would not get a rushing TD in that scenario.Brees gets passing yds up to the fumble spot.Colston gets receiving yds up to the fumble spot.Meachem get rushing TD yds from fumble spot.This scenario does not have a turnover.Okay then, how would you score this scenario:1. Brees throws pass to Colston.2. Colston fumbles.3. Meachem recovers fumble and returns it for touchdown.For people who want to make their own set of rules and give Meachem a TD as an offensive player, a simple question:How did Meachem get the TD? Pass reception? Run?No - it was a fumble by the opposing player. This is cut and dry - not an offensive TD.
fasteddie, the key is two changes of possession.Mr. Retukes. The key is the change of possession.
but he wasn't on offense... he was on defenseMy point was that it doesn't have to be a "rush" or a "pass reception" for an offensive player to get a TD. They can also score TDs on fumble recoveries, which is exactly what happened with Meachem. It doesn't really matter if there were multiple changes of possession before Meachem scored. All that matters is that he was on offense.If you're going to give Meachem a TD for the scenario I described above, then you must also give him a TD for what happened today.I believe that is a (offensive) fumble return for TD. A lateral gets interesting as well - dont know if it counts as a run, but maybe its rushing yards? I dont think Brees would get a TD if he passed to Colston and Colston then lateralled to another player who scored.Okay then, how would you score this scenario:1. Brees throws pass to Colston.2. Colston fumbles.3. Meachem recovers fumble and returns it for touchdown.For people who want to make their own set of rules and give Meachem a TD as an offensive player, a simple question:How did Meachem get the TD? Pass reception? Run?No - it was a fumble by the opposing player. This is cut and dry - not an offensive TD.
Meachem was on offense in both scenarios. If you're going to say that Meachem somehow "switched" from offense to defense, then you must also say that he "switched back" from defense to offense as soon as he recovered the fumble.but he wasn't on offense... he was on defenseIf you're going to give Meachem a TD for the scenario I described above, then you must also give him a TD for what happened today.
What services do you use?Defense/ST in all my leagues.
So...you're saying there's no such thing as a defensive touchdown.. ever?Meachem was on offense in both scenarios. If you're going to say that Meachem somehow "switched" from offense to defense, then you must also say that he "switched back" from defense to offense as soon as he recovered the fumble.but he wasn't on offense... he was on defenseIf you're going to give Meachem a TD for the scenario I described above, then you must also give him a TD for what happened today.
what the hell are you talking ?you can't switch backMeachem was on offense in both scenarios. If you're going to say that Meachem somehow "switched" from offense to defense, then you must also say that he "switched back" from defense to offense as soon as he recovered the fumble.
Actually, that's what your argument suggests. You're claiming that Meachem was on defense BEFORE recovering the fumble, right? Therefore, you must believe that Washington was somehow on offense at that point. And if Washington was on offense, how could they score a D/ST touchdown?.....unless you believe that there were two defenses on the field at the same time? (Something that is impossible by NFL rules.)So...you're saying there's no such thing as a defensive touchdown.. ever?Meachem was on offense in both scenarios. If you're going to say that Meachem somehow "switched" from offense to defense, then you must also say that he "switched back" from defense to offense as soon as he recovered the fumble.but he wasn't on offense... he was on defenseIf you're going to give Meachem a TD for the scenario I described above, then you must also give him a TD for what happened today.
So...you're saying there's no such thing as a defensive touchdown.. ever?Meachem was on offense in both scenarios. If you're going to say that Meachem somehow "switched" from offense to defense, then you must also say that he "switched back" from defense to offense as soon as he recovered the fumble.but he wasn't on offense... he was on defenseIf you're going to give Meachem a TD for the scenario I described above, then you must also give him a TD for what happened today.
Well, I would argue that you can't switch, period.But if someone wants to make the argument that Meachem switches from offense to defense, then you must also agree that he could switch back. You can't have it both ways.what the hell are you talking ?Meachem was on offense in both scenarios. If you're going to say that Meachem somehow "switched" from offense to defense, then you must also say that he "switched back" from defense to offense as soon as he recovered the fumble.
you can't switch back
I'll argue at the time of the INT, he switched from Offense to Special Teams, and stayed there for the remainder of the play.Washington stayed on Defense for the entirety of the play.Well, I would argue that you can't switch, period.But if someone wants to make the argument that Meachem switches from offense to defense, then you must also agree that he could switch back. You can't have it both ways.what the hell are you talking ?Meachem was on offense in both scenarios. If you're going to say that Meachem somehow "switched" from offense to defense, then you must also say that he "switched back" from defense to offense as soon as he recovered the fumble.
you can't switch back
Otherwise, you must concede that Meachem remained on offense for the entire play.
Either way, Meachem gets an Offensive touchdown.
I didn't mean to say that CBS would be the only one. Just using them as one example. You can deny all you want. I've seen this more than one time in the past and those that own the NO defense will get a TD from this.All that proves is that CBS is ignorant.It's a defensive TD and I'd be willing to bet anyone who says otherwise that's the way it will eventually be scored on CBS Sports
Also impossible by NFL rules. A play can only become a Special Teams play when a ball is kicked.(Granted, you're free to re-write your fantasy rules to include these types of plays as "Special Teams" plays, but there are no league management sites that offer that setting as an option.)I'll argue at the time of the INT, he switched from Offense to Special Teams, and stayed there for the remainder of the play.
So if the kicking team fakes it and scores a TD the TD is not credited to the defense but to the individual players as "offensive" players and not ST players?Also impossible by NFL rules. A play can only become a Special Teams play when a ball is kicked.(Granted, you're free to re-write your fantasy rules to include these types of plays as "Special Teams" plays, but there are no league management sites that offer that setting as an option.)I'll argue at the time of the INT, he switched from Offense to Special Teams, and stayed there for the remainder of the play.
It takes some really poor reasoning to make this into a defensive TD.Well, I would argue that you can't switch, period.But if someone wants to make the argument that Meachem switches from offense to defense, then you must also agree that he could switch back. You can't have it both ways.what the hell are you talking ?Meachem was on offense in both scenarios. If you're going to say that Meachem somehow "switched" from offense to defense, then you must also say that he "switched back" from defense to offense as soon as he recovered the fumble.
you can't switch back
Otherwise, you must concede that Meachem remained on offense for the entire play.
Either way, Meachem gets an Offensive touchdown.
I'm not "denying" anything. I know that MFL will count this as an Offensive Fumble Recovery TD. MFL will not give a TD to the D/ST. Footballguys will also count it as an offensive TD. Most league management sites will rule similarly. When this happened in 2003, Sportsline was the only site that gave the TD to the defense by default. I would not be surprised if they did it again this year.I didn't mean to say that CBS would be the only one. Just using them as one example. You can deny all you want. I've seen this more than one time in the past and those that own the NO defense will get a TD from this.All that proves is that CBS is ignorant.It's a defensive TD and I'd be willing to bet anyone who says otherwise that's the way it will eventually be scored on CBS Sports
Good reasoning and very fair rule. Well done Crash Davis.This exact situation happened twice a few years back, once with Randy McMichael and once with Keenan McCardell. I remember this because I wrote a rule about it in our league constitution called the McMichael/McCardell rule. The way we handle it is that the offensive player gets credit for the TD, but not the yards. Also we chose NOT to give the points to the Defense/ST because in our view technically neither the Defensive unit nor the Special teams unit was on the field. The technicality that the offense became the defense once there is change of possession was ignored. The fact that we also award points to the individual on kick and punt return TDs made it a more streamlined rule choice. Leagues that have been around for more than a year or two should have dealt with this fairly recently and have provisions for it.
I've played in other leagues (i.e. not CBS) where it was ruled a defensive TD. Again...I only used them as one example. Unless your league specifically called out this type of play and decided NOT to award it to the defense I'd be willing to bet that your scoring site will give NO defense a TD. It might not be showing now but I think most will adjust and make that ruling.I'm not "denying" anything. I know that MFL will count this as an Offensive Fumble Recovery TD. MFL will not give a TD to the D/ST. Footballguys will also count it as an offensive TD. Most league management sites will rule similarly. When this happened in 2003, Sportsline was the only site that gave the TD to the defense by default. I would not be surprised if they did it again this year.I didn't mean to say that CBS would be the only one. Just using them as one example. You can deny all you want. I've seen this more than one time in the past and those that own the NO defense will get a TD from this.All that proves is that CBS is ignorant.It's a defensive TD and I'd be willing to bet anyone who says otherwise that's the way it will eventually be scored on CBS Sports
Technically, that would be an offensive TD only. I don't think there are any league management sites that would give that TD to the D/ST by default.Check out Hunter Smith's fake punt TD in Week 1. How many leagues gave 6 points to the Washington D/ST that week?So if the kicking team fakes it and scores a TD the TD is not credited to the defense but to the individual players as "offensive" players and not ST players?Also impossible by NFL rules. A play can only become a Special Teams play when a ball is kicked.(Granted, you're free to re-write your fantasy rules to include these types of plays as "Special Teams" plays, but there are no league management sites that offer that setting as an option.)I'll argue at the time of the INT, he switched from Offense to Special Teams, and stayed there for the remainder of the play.