Huh?
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Unemployment lowest since 2008 (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
timschochet
Footballguy
Creating jobs in the private sector is a function of the private sector. The government cannot "help" create jobs. But the government can hinder the creation of new jobs, through excessive restrictions. Remove those restrictions, and you make it easier for the private sector to operate.
But them opperating "easier" will just increase profit and not jobs? Or is this whole thing incoherent because you're stuck using the meme about the government not creating job?
timschochet
Footballguy
I disagree. The excessive regulation caused by this massive bill will absolutely hinder the economy. The hiring of less full time employees will be a by-product, and a negative one IMO.'Matthias said:
timschochet
Footballguy
I'm not stuck using anything. And I'm not sure why what I wrote is incoherent to you. One reason why I have never been too critical of Obama for the high unemployment numbers during most of his years in office is because I don't believe the President can do very much at all to produce new jobs. Also, with the exception of Obamacare, which hasn't gone into effect yet, I don't believe that Obama has instituted more draconian regulations than previous administrations. So he's not personally to blame, IMO. However, the overall effect of the regulations ARE draconian, and I believe that by loosening some of them, it will allow the private sector to do it's thing, hopefully.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
We went through this a few days ago. My takeaway, based on intelligent posting from people on both sides of the aisle, was that sentiments like the one in your post here are mostly just political doubletalk without any real meaning. Do you have something to support your idea that "the government cannot help create jobs" that nobody else was able to offer in that thread?
Does the private sector "doing it's thing" = creating jobs?
timschochet
Footballguy
Hopefully.
timschochet
Footballguy
It depends on your point of view, I suppose. I don't believe the government actually creates jobs in the private sector. But honestly, it's not an argument I want to pursue, because I really don't care who takes credit for the jobs so long as they're created. My main point is that I believe one of the best ways for the government to help the process along is to remove some of the more onerous restrictions, which Romney is more likely to do than Obama will.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Oof. So more trickle down economics, while you cross your fingers and toes, eh Tim?
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Can you cite some of these "more onerous restrictions" for me?
So the argument here is that we should overturn laws so that 40 million people continue to not have health insurance, companies can disregard the environment, and Wall-Street is free to lever up again long as it hopefully creates jobs?
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timschochet
Footballguy
Trickle down is based mostly on tax relief. I'm focusing on regulations.
timschochet
Footballguy
Well, for instance: currently the National Labor Relations Board has the ability to prevent companies from opening up new plants or factories if unions have a problem with it. So if a company wants to open in a "right to work" state like South Carolina (see Boeing) the federal government can prevent it from happening. I don't believe this should be the case. That's just one example of many that I would look into.
timschochet
Footballguy
No.Like Romney (hopefully) I am a moderate. I don't want to repeal all of Dodd-Franks, but there are excessive, unnecessary parts to it that could be amended. I don't want to disregard the environment, but there are excessive laws out there that could be altered. (While I care, for instance, about climate change and pollution and threats to drinking water, I don't care about some rare bird becoming extinct in one part of the country while it's still alive in another part.) I don't want to see anyone without health insurance, but I don't believe Obamacare is the best way to achieve it.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
That is false on several counts. You are referring I believe to the Boeing case. The allegation from the NLRB (brought at the request of the union, as is often the case for that agency) was that Boeing moved the plant as punishment for past strikes. So for an actual violation of labor laws, not just because they felt like it. The case was settled, so no harm done.
The larger point is that the NLRB does not have the authority to prevent a plant from happening simply because they "have a problem with it." They have the authority to challenge what they perceive as a business practice in violation of federal labor laws; in this case, retaliatory behavior. But that authority is simply to bring a legal challenge claiming a violation of federal labor laws. It's up to the judge to decide if their challenge has merit. And the determination is based on longstanding federal labor laws; not regulations, and not something a president is in any position to change.
In this case maybe you could say the agency shouldn't have brought the challenge, and you can even hold Obama accountable for that if you want although I doubt he was really involved. But stuff like this happens all the time, because agencies have discretion to enforce the law and regulations as they see fit and the president has little to do with it. In every administration there's people who have complained about agencies going too far and others who have complained about agencies not going far enough. It's the nature of the game. Changing presidents won't change that; never has before.
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DoubleG
Footballguy
It sounds like we agree on many more things that we disagree on. :hug:
But he isn't proposing reigning in limited parts of these laws, he is promising getting rid of them altogether without specifying how their benefits will be acheived. I have yet to hear one detail to the contrary. He, like you, are pretending there aren't trade-offs to be made here. He is promising he will get that job-destroying government out of the way without harming access to health-care, harming the environment, or allowing Wall Street to continue holding the economy hostage. It is garbage.Of course, you could start by telling me what parts of Dodd-Frank are excessive and need to be curtailed. Or how you care about threats to drinking water while wanting full-speed ahead on fracking. Or how you can get everyone health insurance with an even more conservative scheme than Obamacare, I'm sure other nations would be interested in that one. Better yet, you could provide some examples of Romney doing any of the above that you claim he believes in.
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Sam Quentin
Footballguy
It may not end up being perfect, but he'll do a much more competent job than Obama...
Sam Quentin
Footballguy
Predictoion for today
the ADP number will be mediocre (120K-150K range)
BLS number will be an incredible boost for O giving a number around 7.4%
nobdy will believe it because GDP, PMI and ADP, UE6 numbers don't correlate with the BLS/UE3
the ADP number will be mediocre (120K-150K range)
BLS number will be an incredible boost for O giving a number around 7.4%
nobdy will believe it because GDP, PMI and ADP, UE6 numbers don't correlate with the BLS/UE3
igbomb
Footballguy
Nice try.
The Commish
Footballguy
This thread is probably the most perplexing of the political threads to me. I just don't understand why people thinking the lowering of taxes is all of a sudden going to get all these mortgage guys and real estate agents (who make up a good number of those that lost their jobs) jobs in other fields. It was a MAJOR contraction of a big market and folks think taxes have something to do with that? 
Jackstraw
Footballguy
Plus there is already so much money on the sidelines its not even funny. I invest idle funds for my organization and was offered one tenth of one percent for a six month CD for a million dollars. Why? Because nobody wants my money. So pouring a big pile of cash on top of the pile no one is using is somehow going to spur an economic boom? Ridiculous.This thread is probably the most perplexing of the political threads to me. I just don't understand why people thinking the lowering of taxes is all of a sudden going to get all these mortgage guys and real estate agents (who make up a good number of those that lost their jobs) jobs in other fields. It was a MAJOR contraction of a big market and folks think taxes have something to do with that?
The Commish
Footballguy
I guess folks want to believe it so they do? I don't know, but it makes no sense. We have a ton of technology jobs open and are getting pretty good raises to stay where we are.Plus there is already so much money on the sidelines its not even funny. I invest idle funds for my organization and was offered one tenth of one percent for a six month CD for a million dollars. Why? Because nobody wants my money. So pouring a big pile of cash on top of the pile no one is using is somehow going to spur an economic boom? Ridiculous.This thread is probably the most perplexing of the political threads to me. I just don't understand why people thinking the lowering of taxes is all of a sudden going to get all these mortgage guys and real estate agents (who make up a good number of those that lost their jobs) jobs in other fields. It was a MAJOR contraction of a big market and folks think taxes have something to do with that?
So is everyone else on there spinning it one way or the other.Rick Santelli is a fool.
Sure, but he combines it with the loud-mouthed dickishness that just puts him over the top in my book.So is everyone else on there spinning it one way or the other.Rick Santelli is a fool.
lod01
Footballguy
How long until he has an aneurysm? The guy just screams when all he has to do is talk.Rick Santelli is a fool.
That is the thing I can't stand. We always have CNBC on at work but I have to keep the volume off because I kept hearing screaming in the background and thinking something important was going on in the market. Nope, just Rick being Rick. Kudlow and Cramer are bad at that too.How long until he has an aneurysm? The guy just screams when all he has to do is talk.Rick Santelli is a fool.
SacramentoBob
Footballguy
It's been quite the journey.
Sam Quentin
Footballguy
makes me feel like we're not living in a total banana republic...
Sam Quentin
Footballguy
Boeing Announces Big Layoffs in Defense Division http://www.cnbc.com/id/49729998
Boeing Telegraphs Layoffs in Defense, Space & Security Unit http://247wallst.com/2012/11/07/boeing-telegraphs-layoffs-in-defense-space-security-unit/
Hawker Beechcraft to close plants in Arkansas, Texas, Arizona, cut more jobs http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/52f3fff526904fc68717a1cf890c9f9c/KS--Hawker-Beechcraft-Layoffs
Boeing Telegraphs Layoffs in Defense, Space & Security Unit http://247wallst.com/2012/11/07/boeing-telegraphs-layoffs-in-defense-space-security-unit/
Hawker Beechcraft to close plants in Arkansas, Texas, Arizona, cut more jobs http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/52f3fff526904fc68717a1cf890c9f9c/KS--Hawker-Beechcraft-Layoffs
Sam Quentin
Footballguy
Nextel to cut 20% of jobs at Virginia headquarters
http://www.telecompaper.com/news/nextel-to-cut-20-of-jobs-at-virginia-headquarters--906620
http://www.telecompaper.com/news/nextel-to-cut-20-of-jobs-at-virginia-headquarters--906620
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
That website seems like an excellent choice for unbiased and insightful presentation and analysis of economic numbers.
CrossEyed
Footballguy
So have the companies announced layoffs, or not?
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
College degree folks-Unemployment is under 4%, that is almost full capacity. I have really stopped caring about this number, why can't folks focus on other things? If you personally get laid off, come in here and cry, we'll help you map out a game plan but this constant bickering over who is working and who isn't. I'm guilty of it in the past but the only people who should worry are low wage folks and they all voted for Obama so obviously they aren't concerned so why should we?
How about this...92% of Americans are employed!!! That sounds much better.
How about this...92% of Americans are employed!!! That sounds much better.
CrossEyed
Footballguy
I don't know anything about the site, it was simply a link someone sent me that had all of the layoffs listed. This is a thread about unemployment. Regardless of the site, the companies have announced layoffs. That's not going to help the unemployment situation.But by all means, focus on the messenger.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
Economic numbers only reflect what has already happened to the economy. So to analyze them is only on analysis of what has already happened.To see what is happening now requires more.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Does that website look fair and balanced to you?I don't know anything about the site, it was simply a link someone sent me that had all of the layoffs listed. This is a thread about unemployment. Regardless of the site, the companies have announced layoffs. That's not going to help the unemployment situation.But by all means, focus on the messenger.
squistion
Footballguy
Twitchy is Michelle Malkin's site, good reason to focus on the messenger.I don't know anything about the site, it was simply a link someone sent me that had all of the layoffs listed. This is a thread about unemployment. Regardless of the site, the companies have announced layoffs. That's not going to help the unemployment situation.But by all means, focus on the messenger.
CrossEyed
Footballguy
Is the information about who has announced future layoffs accurate, or not?Does that website look fair and balanced to you?I don't know anything about the site, it was simply a link someone sent me that had all of the layoffs listed. This is a thread about unemployment. Regardless of the site, the companies have announced layoffs. That's not going to help the unemployment situation.But by all means, focus on the messenger.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I'm sure they have. I'm also sure that companies announce layoffs all the time. And I'm sure that the cited layoffs as tracked by a couple of bitter right-wing nutjobs on Twitter desperately trying to tie a handful of layoffs on a particular day to election results without presenting comparative data are incredibly stupid; either the posters themselves are idiots or they are relying on the stupidity of their audience to make their point.
Here's some help for you if you'd like to get some context and think critically about the tripe you read/posted: In September 2012, a month in which the overall national unemployment numbers improved significantly there were 1,316 mass action layoffs (more than 43 a day) resulting in 122,416 lost jobs (4000+ a day). Data
In other words, there was absolutely nothing unusual about the last couple days. People who think otherwise are low-rent political hacks who have no concept of scale ... or are relying on the fact that their audience has no concept of scale. By relying on their nonsense to draw your conclusion that it is "not looking good going forward" ... well, I'll let that speak for itself.
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Politician Spock
Footballguy
92% of the work force is employed.The work force is a smaller percentage of Americans than it used to be.
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