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wadegarrett

**** CLEVELAND BROWNS THREAD ****

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1. They are NOT re-signing Hillis. Period. End of story. Mark it down. Etch it in stone. Smack it up, flip it, rub it down. So you can take that out of any of your hypotheticals.2. That said, it is going to be very hard for them to pass on Richardson at 4. Unless they think Hardesty/Jackson/Oggy/FA is enough while they address more pressing needs.3. I think they will sign an FA WR and it will be Desean Jackson. They need a speed guy and he's a Heckert draftee4. I agree with the trade down to WAS/MIA scenario if RG is on the board.

If we took Richardson over RG3, Id be upset. Not crushed, but upsetRichardson has stud written all over him. But RG3 has elite QB and 500+ rushing written all over him. Id rather have a franchise shotcaller.And I for one never had the feeling Colt would be our saviour. But this is a different story.
To clarify, I'm not sold on Griffin, but if they believe he is a franchise QB they MUST take him at 4 if he is there. If not it should be Richarson or the LSU DB. Then WR & DE with the ATL and 2nd round picks
Sounds like Shurmur is thinking what I'm thinking.

Browns coach Pat Shurmur acknowledged that he's already watched tape of Baylor QB Robert Griffin III, and believes the 2011 Heisman Trophy winner to be a "tremendous talent.""I’ve watched him," Shurmur said. "[He’s a] tremendous talent, good player." Asked if Griffin could fit into Cleveland's West Coast offense, Shurmur replied "Good players fit in every offense." While RG3 has the arm strength to fit any scheme, he's considered a particularly good match for a system like the Browns' because of his athleticism. After Colt McCoy took a step back in 2011, Cleveland is expected to consider drafting a quarterback in the 2012 first round. They currently have two first-rounders to work with

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3. I think they will sign an FA WR and it will be Desean Jackson. They need a speed guy and he's a Heckert draftee

I/m sure they will try and add a FA WR but it will not be jackson. he is a head case and very poor teammate. Browns would be very stupid to sign a player like that.all the talk about Hillis and not wanting to sign him because of that... jackson is 100 times worse. I do not think IMO RG3 will be a good NFL QB. just have the feeling.I think Clev should do the following.1.get the OL line stronger on the right side. is was horrible. getting steiny back will help tons. it hurt us in so many aspects this past year. from colt to the rb's.2. get some help in the wr. area. maybe draft blackmon.3. sign Hillis. i think he wont ask for the boatload of money and can be had a good price. he screwed up and he knows it. with him in there we are a totally different team. 4. sign a smallish rb in the sproles mold. or use cribbs in that roll. have to get him the ball more.5. sign asante samual from philly. they will trade him. sure we can get him on the cheap considering what they have now there.6. let colt have another shot with a healthy line and rb's and a better group of wr. 7. GET A DEDICATED OFF CORD. SHURM SUCKS AT CALLING PLAYS. and let said cord call the plays.

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3. I think they will sign an FA WR and it will be Desean Jackson. They need a speed guy and he's a Heckert draftee

I/m sure they will try and add a FA WR but it will not be jackson. he is a head case and very poor teammate. Browns would be very stupid to sign a player like that.all the talk about Hillis and not wanting to sign him because of that... jackson is 100 times worse.
I think the Browns would re-sign Hillis but only for a lot less than what he is asking for. If DeSean Jackson doesn't ask for a lot, I think they'd sign him.

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3. I think they will sign an FA WR and it will be Desean Jackson. They need a speed guy and he's a Heckert draftee

I/m sure they will try and add a FA WR but it will not be jackson. he is a head case and very poor teammate. Browns would be very stupid to sign a player like that.all the talk about Hillis and not wanting to sign him because of that... jackson is 100 times worse.
I think the Browns would re-sign Hillis but only for a lot less than what he is asking for. If DeSean Jackson doesn't ask for a lot, I think they'd sign him.
Who wouldn't be willing to accept a low-ball offer to play in Cleveland?

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Browns need alot of help on offense (conversely, the D is not bad). Matt Flynn fits the offense Shurmur is trying to run perfectly. He should be option # 1. Should be a ton of great options at # 4, including trading down.

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Does it really matter who they draft? They'll find a way to #### it up one way or another. :wall:

I have every confidence you are correct. I hate being a Browns fan.

1. They are NOT re-signing Hillis. Period. End of story. Mark it down. Etch it in stone. Smack it up, flip it, rub it down. So you can take that out of any of your hypotheticals.2. That said, it is going to be very hard for them to pass on Richardson at 4. Unless they think Hardesty/Jackson/Oggy/FA is enough while they address more pressing needs.3. I think they will sign an FA WR and it will be Desean Jackson. They need a speed guy and he's a Heckert draftee4. I agree with the trade down to WAS/MIA scenario if RG is on the board.

#1 - not so sure about this now. I'm pretty sure Hillis has seen the error of his ways (his ####ty representation i.e. his brother) and has been contrite in his behavior. Makes all the sense in the world to resign him cheaper than they were going to and run him into the dirt.#2 - maybe but if they resign Hillis and get Brandon Jackson back healthy I could seriously see them going CB here and there is certainly a need for it.#3 - they will draft a WR, not sure who and probably pick up one through FA. Can't see them getting Jackson but who knows.#4 - I absolutely agree we will & should trade if RG3 is on the board. I really think they are in love with a CB with this pick and he will be there if they trade down.All that said I listened to the Holmgren presser this week and I was completely underwhelmed with his responses. There is absolutely no sense of urgency in Cleveland right now, none. I wanted to hear somebody fired up & pissed off and it couldn't have been further from that. Holmgren said "I'm not in tough spots anymore", I almost fell outta my chair when I heard that. 4-12 not tough enough for you Mike? Plan on going 3-13 next year? The other quote that set me off was "our system allows for a QB that isn't 6'4" 240lbs to succeed". Did you watch a game this year Mike? He also talked about their "system" ad nauseum which gets me to my point. RG3 does not fir the Browns current system and they are committed to it so I don't see him coming to Cleveland anytime soon other than in an opposing uniform. I have heard repeatedly that they are in love with Ryan Tannehill and I'm betting with one of the other 1st rounders he will be the QB you see in a Browns uniform.I think they are (and I can't believe I'm saying this) confident in McCoy and Wallace and truly believe they came make Tannehill the future and bridge the gap with McCoy and/or Wallace. Flynn is a sexy pick but I think his price tag outweighs his potential and the Browns aren't gong to gamble on him. They need so much else, a DE, a CB, OL help a few WR's I just don't see them rolling dice on Flynn.

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#1 - not so sure about this now. I'm pretty sure Hillis has seen the error of his ways (his ####ty representation i.e. his brother) and has been contrite in his behavior. Makes all the sense in the world to resign him cheaper than they were going to and run him into the dirt.

#2 - maybe but if they resign Hillis and get Brandon Jackson back healthy I could seriously see them going CB here and there is certainly a need for it.

#3 - they will draft a WR, not sure who and probably pick up one through FA. Can't see them getting Jackson but who knows.

#4 - I absolutely agree we will & should trade if RG3 is on the board. I really think they are in love with a CB with this pick and he will be there if they trade down.

All that said I listened to the Holmgren presser this week and I was completely underwhelmed with his responses. There is absolutely no sense of urgency in Cleveland right now, none. I wanted to hear somebody fired up & pissed off and it couldn't have been further from that. Holmgren said "I'm not in tough spots anymore", I almost fell outta my chair when I heard that. 4-12 not tough enough for you Mike? Plan on going 3-13 next year? The other quote that set me off was "our system allows for a QB that isn't 6'4" 240lbs to succeed". Did you watch a game this year Mike? He also talked about their "system" ad nauseum which gets me to my point. RG3 does not fir the Browns current system and they are committed to it so I don't see him coming to Cleveland anytime soon other than in an opposing uniform. I have heard repeatedly that they are in love with Ryan Tannehill and I'm betting with one of the other 1st rounders he will be the QB you see in a Browns uniform.

I think they are (and I can't believe I'm saying this) confident in McCoy and Wallace and truly believe they came make Tannehill the future and bridge the gap with McCoy and/or Wallace. Flynn is a sexy pick but I think his price tag outweighs his potential and the Browns aren't gong to gamble on him. They need so much else, a DE, a CB, OL help a few WR's I just don't see them rolling dice on Flynn.

I don't mean to point this directly at you, because there are a LOT of talking heads in Cleveland that are saying the same thing... so don't take this the wrong way, but what the HECK do people want from Holmgren?!? They want him to come out in a end of the season presser trashing him team up and down and screaming about how heads are gonna roll? It's IDIOCY. How often do you see higher ups in the Steelers, Colts, Patriots, Packets etc expressing "urgency" in press conferences? Does that translate to winning? Will Holmgren freaking out help the Browns make the playoffs next year? What kind of magic fairytale land do Browns fans live in where they think if the guy upstairs just gets upset then they can transform a crappy team into a great one? Please show me all the examples in football where urgency == winning.

The worst part is most people agree with the basic tenets of how the Browns are trying to build a team- get guys through the draft and supplement a little with free agency. Yet, they expect the management to go bat#### loco when the team doesn't start winning in year 1. I mean do you see the disconnect here? It takes time to build a winning team. Getting upset about it and being "urgent" isn't gonna somehow make it go any faster. If anything making decisions "urgently" translates to all the years of losing this team has experienced. Remember when Phil Savage rampaged through free agency picking up guys left and right? IT DOESN'T WORK.

I understand that people are frustrated by the losing, hell I'm sick of watching it every Sunday for the last decade, but please Browns fans, grow up.

Also, please stop taking Holmgren at his word when he talks about Colt. It's driving me crazy. He can't trash the kid. He can only say nice things about him right now. We will see when the season starts- there will be another QB in here. If anything, look at what Heckert said in the presser since he is much less politic than Holmgren. The best thing he said about Colt was that the Browns "still think he can be a guy for us." He can be a "guy" for us. I mean you don't even have to read in between the lines (which no Browns fans can do apparently) to get that one.

/rant

Edited by nxmehta

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The no sense of urgency talk has to do with everything that happened this year; not just what Holmgren said last week. There's no sense of urgency with the personnel decision making and it carried over to the field. Our 'come back' attempts and 2 minute drills were embarrassingly bad. The coaches and players were utterly clueless. I could go on and on about this but it's too depressing. In the end I genuinely believe this regime had no interest in trying to win this year.

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(Again, don't want to direct all this at one poster, have been frustrated with the media and fans lately, so don't take this too personally.)

The no sense of urgency talk has to do with everything that happened this year; not just what Holmgren said last week. There's no sense of urgency with the personnel decision making and it carried over to the field. Our 'come back' attempts and 2 minute drills were embarrassingly bad. The coaches and players were utterly clueless. I could go on and on about this but it's too depressing. In the end I genuinely believe this regime had no interest in trying to win this year.

I don't know what this means. You're saying we didn't sign enough free agents?

And how are the coaches and players clueless? Are they clueless because they aren't good at what they do? Or does being clueless == no sense of urgency as you're implying? If they were urgent then they would have found a clue somewhere?

The team is not good. It doesn't have talent. How were we going to win substantially more games this year with most of the bums and rookies on this team? By signing 52 overpriced free agents?

Again, how does "urgency" translate to winning? Can you give me some historical examples here? The things that translate to winning are "talent", "drafting well", and "organizational stability", but fans just don't want to hear that. The see the team sucking, and the players/coaches/front office aren't freaking the #### out like we are... so that means heck they must not care, they don't want to win, they aren't "urgent", they are clueless, they don't understand the history of losing, blah blah blah whatever other trite bull#### that the media is constantly spewing as a resulting of watching season after season of losing (I'm looking at you Tony Grossi). The reality is that it takes time to win when you have nothing to start with (and stop pointing to San Francisco, a team with actual TALENT).

The Browns aren't complacent, they aren't clueless, they aren't lazy, they are just bad. Gonna have to wait it out, sorry. No magic pixie dust in Holmgren's mustache.

Edited by nxmehta

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I have a lot to say but being on the borderline of pneumonia and having my emotions tugged the past few hours watching the Broncos game, it has to wait till tomorrow.

We are officially in at #4 and #22 overall.

Boy do I live for the days where we can root for us to win in the playoffs instead of looking for faux satisfaction rooting against the Steelers and Ravens.

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(Again, don't want to direct all this at one poster, have been frustrated with the media and fans lately, so don't take this too personally.)

The no sense of urgency talk has to do with everything that happened this year; not just what Holmgren said last week. There's no sense of urgency with the personnel decision making and it carried over to the field. Our 'come back' attempts and 2 minute drills were embarrassingly bad. The coaches and players were utterly clueless. I could go on and on about this but it's too depressing. In the end I genuinely believe this regime had no interest in trying to win this year.

I don't know what this means. You're saying we didn't sign enough free agents?

And how are the coaches and players clueless? Are they clueless because they aren't good at what they do? Or does being clueless == no sense of urgency as you're implying? If they were urgent then they would have found a clue somewhere?

The team is not good. It doesn't have talent. How were we going to win substantially more games this year with most of the bums and rookies on this team? By signing 52 overpriced free agents?

Again, how does "urgency" translate to winning? Can you give me some historical examples here? The things that translate to winning are "talent", "drafting well", and "organizational stability", but fans just don't want to hear that. The see the team sucking, and the players/coaches/front office aren't freaking the #### out like we are... so that means heck they must not care, they don't want to win, they aren't "urgent", they are clueless, they don't understand the history of losing, blah blah blah whatever other trite bull#### that the media is constantly spewing as a resulting of watching season after season of losing (I'm looking at you Tony Grossi). The reality is that it takes time to win when you have nothing to start with (and stop pointing to San Francisco, a team with actual TALENT).

The Browns aren't complacent, they aren't clueless, they aren't lazy, they are just bad. Gonna have to wait it out, sorry. No magic pixie dust in Holmgren's mustache.

:goodposting:

In addition I add, if you're complaining and not offering viable soulutions, you're just a whiner.

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We need SERIOUS talent.. and no, it isnt going to happen in one year or two... but 4yrs down the road, with a potential franchise QB at the helm, we could be in for some pleasant surprises.

We are bad. really. we need to go out and draft RG3.

I dont see how any other player would have the short and long term impact he could have for our team, available at #4.

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We need SERIOUS talent.. and no, it isnt going to happen in one year or two... but 4yrs down the road, with a potential franchise QB at the helm, we could be in for some pleasant surprises.

We are bad. really. we need to go out and draft RG3.

I dont see how any other player would have the short and long term impact he could have for our team, available at #4.

I think you're absolutely right in that RG3 would by far have the biggest impact out of all the options available at #4. The question, I guess, is whether or not will have enough of an impact to push us past the other teams in our division. I could see it happening... but I'm not a GM; it's really hard to project these kids coming out of college playing in totally different offenses. Heckert will figure it out though.

Back to a prior question of mine, the main knock against Tannehill is that he can't win the big game? Is that pretty much it?

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I think fisher takes the rams job and trades you the 2 for both firsts. Get ready for it.

Browns get grifffin, rams take Khalil or Blackmon

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I think fisher takes the rams job and trades you the 2 for both firsts. Get ready for it.Browns get grifffin, rams take Khalil or Blackmon

I hear that the Browns are not interested in Griffin. I'm ready to see the following as the most-likely scenario:1.05 RB Trent Richardson1.22 OG Cordy Glen2.05 DE Fletcher Cox3.05 WR T. Y. Hilton4.05 CB/LBThe Browns current philosophy is that you can find quality WRs and LBs late in the draft. They will put a premium on building the lines with high picks. They will be very attracted to Richardson because he fits the scheme.

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I think fisher takes the rams job and trades you the 2 for both firsts. Get ready for it.Browns get grifffin, rams take Khalil or Blackmon

I hear that the Browns are not interested in Griffin. I'm ready to see the following as the most-likely scenario:1.05 RB Trent Richardson1.22 OG Cordy Glen2.05 DE Fletcher Cox3.05 WR T. Y. Hilton4.05 CB/LBThe Browns current philosophy is that you can find quality WRs and LBs late in the draft. They will put a premium on building the lines with high picks. They will be very attracted to Richardson because he fits the scheme.
I could live with this. And there is no way they are trading up. They need more than 1 1st round guy.

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The Browns aren't complacent, they aren't clueless, they aren't lazy, they are just bad. Gonna have to wait it out, sorry. No magic pixie dust in Holmgren's mustache.

They are just bad, have been for since they came back. My point is Holmgren is entering year 3 of a 5 year deal (to which he is paid a king's ransom I might add) and we are still desperately searching for a QB. He said it himself that these things take time in his system, his QB's in the past took at least 2 years to grasp the system. Well unless McCoy or Wallace show me something I've yet to see from them then we are at least another year or two out from anything that resembles an NFL offense. I'm outta ####### time with this rebuilding ####. We've been rebuilding since 99. The ####### Egyptians built the pyramids quicker than this team is building an offense. You lost a year by keeping the Mangenius, you lost this year because you thought a first year HC with no prior experience didn't need a OC.What I wanted to hear was Holmgren getting a little animated and riled up over a ####### 4-12 season! "I'm not in tough spots anymore" is NOT what I want to hear from this guy. You have a problem Mike, a big one, your team blows and the Cleveland fanbase is short on patience right now. I don't need him to rail on players but I want him to light a fire and I didn't hear that last week.

I think fisher takes the rams job and trades you the 2 for both firsts. Get ready for it.Browns get grifffin, rams take Khalil or Blackmon

No way, none. No way I see us trading up and as I've said before, unless Holmgren & Heckart are Oscar caliber actors I don't see RG3 coming to Cleveland. A improvising QB does not fit the West Coast offense. Heckart is supposedly in love with a CB at this pick, not sure which one but I could see that if we don't trade down which to me, is the play if RG3 is still on the board here.

The Browns current philosophy is that you can find quality WRs and LBs late in the draft. They will put a premium on building the lines with high picks. They will be very attracted to Richardson because he fits the scheme.

Yea, those WR picks are just tearing up the league :rolleyes: That's not directed at you Fensalk, more the "philosophy". I don't know if Colt McCoy is our QB or not because he has NO. TALENT. AROUND. HIM! How do you evaluate a QB that has nobody to throw to?

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We can't put points on the board. plain and simple.

it's not our only area of concern, but with points up, our DEF can be reasonable (they wont be on the field 3/4 of the game)... we could see more wins

I just dont see how we dont upgrade our Offense in a major way with that early 1st pick. It's gotta be rg3 or richardson... which, I dont know...

But Im telling you, I feel like the Rams are going to give their QB a shiny new toy with their pick... and that could be Richardson, to replace a falling to pieces SJax.

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http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/01/mary_kay_cabots_four_things_ab_1.html

3. Hillis is most likely gone

Unless the Browns drastically changed their mind over the final three games, they'll let Hillis walk in free agency. The Browns don't feel he is worth all the drama. Yes, he looked great against Arizona (99 yards) and Baltimore (112 yards) at the end, but the Browns have no intention of paying him the $5 million to $6 million a year he's believed to be seeking. With their offensive line, they feel they can plug in another back who'll be as successful -- at a much lower cost.

This is why I am not on an NFL payroll right now. Hardesty is considered the front runner if Hillis leaves so does that open the door for a Richardson pick? Maybe but the more I hear out of Cleveland, the more convinced I am they are leaning toward Clairborne.

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The Browns aren't complacent, they aren't clueless, they aren't lazy, they are just bad. Gonna have to wait it out, sorry. No magic pixie dust in Holmgren's mustache.

They are just bad, have been for since they came back. My point is Holmgren is entering year 3 of a 5 year deal (to which he is paid a king's ransom I might add) and we are still desperately searching for a QB. He said it himself that these things take time in his system, his QB's in the past took at least 2 years to grasp the system. Well unless McCoy or Wallace show me something I've yet to see from them then we are at least another year or two out from anything that resembles an NFL offense. I'm outta ####### time with this rebuilding ####. We've been rebuilding since 99. The ####### Egyptians built the pyramids quicker than this team is building an offense. You lost a year by keeping the Mangenius, you lost this year because you thought a first year HC with no prior experience didn't need a OC.What I wanted to hear was Holmgren getting a little animated and riled up over a ####### 4-12 season! "I'm not in tough spots anymore" is NOT what I want to hear from this guy. You have a problem Mike, a big one, your team blows and the Cleveland fanbase is short on patience right now. I don't need him to rail on players but I want him to light a fire and I didn't hear that last week.

I think fisher takes the rams job and trades you the 2 for both firsts. Get ready for it.Browns get grifffin, rams take Khalil or Blackmon

No way, none. No way I see us trading up and as I've said before, unless Holmgren & Heckart are Oscar caliber actors I don't see RG3 coming to Cleveland. A improvising QB does not fit the West Coast offense. Heckart is supposedly in love with a CB at this pick, not sure which one but I could see that if we don't trade down which to me, is the play if RG3 is still on the board here.

The Browns current philosophy is that you can find quality WRs and LBs late in the draft. They will put a premium on building the lines with high picks. They will be very attracted to Richardson because he fits the scheme.

Yea, those WR picks are just tearing up the league :rolleyes: That's not directed at you Fensalk, more the "philosophy". I don't know if Colt McCoy is our QB or not because he has NO. TALENT. AROUND. HIM! How do you evaluate a QB that has nobody to throw to?
Lots of whining -- no viable solutions.

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I dont think we touch Richardson. I really dont.

Nor do we go for Blackmon, because... we're the Browns. and really, Im ok with that pick being left alone.

I know I keep harping on this... Im slightly annoying myself... but how do we NOT draft RG3? (I especially ask this to those who have watched him play, and not just highlights)

Put it this way... if/when we let hillis walk... and plug in hardesty or whoever else... it will be a downgrade, right?

well, by drafting RG3, not only do we add a potential 5-800 rushing yards, but a world class gunslinger with deadly accuracy, smarts and a release quicker than me when I lost my virginity.

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Lots of whining -- no viable solutions.

Love the avatar, big Superhost fan :thumbup:

I dont think we touch Richardson. I really dont.

Nor do we go for Blackmon, because... we're the Browns. and really, Im ok with that pick being left alone.

I know I keep harping on this... Im slightly annoying myself... but how do we NOT draft RG3? (I especially ask this to those who have watched him play, and not just highlights)

Put it this way... if/when we let hillis walk... and plug in hardesty or whoever else... it will be a downgrade, right?

well, by drafting RG3, not only do we add a potential 5-800 rushing yards, but a world class gunslinger with deadly accuracy, smarts and a release quicker than me when I lost my virginity.

Spit take, thanks

I know I keep going back to it but from the presser last week, RG3 doesn't fit their "system" and they 100% committed to the "system". I really get the feeling they are content with McCoy/Wallace/some FA/draft pick.

I'm not sold on RG3 being able to hold up in our division. He's bigger than Vick but brings some of the same intangibles to the table and I just don't see a QB that likes to run around having a long career in the AFC North. Big Ben got beat to a bloody pulp this year and he's a LB.

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Lots of whining -- no viable solutions.

Love the avatar, big Superhost fan :thumbup:

I dont think we touch Richardson. I really dont.

Nor do we go for Blackmon, because... we're the Browns. and really, Im ok with that pick being left alone.

I know I keep harping on this... Im slightly annoying myself... but how do we NOT draft RG3? (I especially ask this to those who have watched him play, and not just highlights)

Put it this way... if/when we let hillis walk... and plug in hardesty or whoever else... it will be a downgrade, right?

well, by drafting RG3, not only do we add a potential 5-800 rushing yards, but a world class gunslinger with deadly accuracy, smarts and a release quicker than me when I lost my virginity.

Spit take, thanks

I know I keep going back to it but from the presser last week, RG3 doesn't fit their "system" and they 100% committed to the "system". I really get the feeling they are content with McCoy/Wallace/some FA/draft pick.

I'm not sold on RG3 being able to hold up in our division. He's bigger than Vick but brings some of the same intangibles to the table and I just don't see a QB that likes to run around having a long career in the AFC North. Big Ben got beat to a bloody pulp this year and he's a LB.

In fairness, RG3 is bigger and heavier than McCoy and about 100x as elusive.

I think he could thrive in the AFC North, personally. It'd be a breathe of fresh air, and it's not as if the Steelers or Ravens DEF is as bruising/dominant as they were in the past... I fear them less for some reason.

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Lots of whining -- no viable solutions.

Love the avatar, big Superhost fan :thumbup:

I dont think we touch Richardson. I really dont.

Nor do we go for Blackmon, because... we're the Browns. and really, Im ok with that pick being left alone.

I know I keep harping on this... Im slightly annoying myself... but how do we NOT draft RG3? (I especially ask this to those who have watched him play, and not just highlights)

Put it this way... if/when we let hillis walk... and plug in hardesty or whoever else... it will be a downgrade, right?

well, by drafting RG3, not only do we add a potential 5-800 rushing yards, but a world class gunslinger with deadly accuracy, smarts and a release quicker than me when I lost my virginity.

Spit take, thanks

I know I keep going back to it but from the presser last week, RG3 doesn't fit their "system" and they 100% committed to the "system". I really get the feeling they are content with McCoy/Wallace/some FA/draft pick.

I'm not sold on RG3 being able to hold up in our division. He's bigger than Vick but brings some of the same intangibles to the table and I just don't see a QB that likes to run around having a long career in the AFC North. Big Ben got beat to a bloody pulp this year and he's a LB.

Went with Supe after trying to come up with something uniquely "us". He's a Cleveland Classic.

I'm not sure about RG3, either. I suppose "elusiveness" can't be a bad additional talent as long as everything else is there. I want a guy with a strong arm, good field vision, and smarts. I guess you also need durability or elusiveness. I wonder how Luck turns out in comparison. Despite the decent results by Cam & Tebow and the newer "mobile" QBS this year, I have to wonder at their longevity.

As far as the #4 pick goes, I'd love to leverage it into another deal like last year. However, if they select someone, I can't see how they could miss. Personally, I think there are too many holes to take a WR.

Regarding Hillis, one glaring (to me) aspect that nobody is talking about is the total lack of blitz pick-up by the rest of the RBs. The offense works a lot better when he's playing whether they're throwing it or he's pile-driving up the middle.

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The Browns defense could get really good quickly if they drafted Claiborne and find another quality DE. Its just that the offense is going to suck for another year if they do it. That would be really weird as well - the Browns hire Holmgren, on offensive guy, to run things, and they hire an offensive head coach, and then build....an elite defense?

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The Browns current philosophy is that you can find quality WRs and LBs late in the draft. They will put a premium on building the lines with high picks. They will be very attracted to Richardson because he fits the scheme.

Yea, those WR picks are just tearing up the league :rolleyes: That's not directed at you Fensalk, more the "philosophy". I don't know if Colt McCoy is our QB or not because he has NO. TALENT. AROUND. HIM! How do you evaluate a QB that has nobody to throw to?
I think I misspoke because I meant "later" like round 3-4, not at the very end. The current regime in Cleveland has only selected 1 WR in its first two drafts like that, Greg Little, and I think he's a decent pick. He's better than anything we had .

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Regarding Hillis, one glaring (to me) aspect that nobody is talking about is the total lack of blitz pick-up by the rest of the RBs. The offense works a lot better when he's playing whether they're throwing it or he's pile-driving up the middle.

That's a great point not being discussed. Dude is like having an extra guard in the backfield when need be. Pretty sure Hardesty will never be the guy CLE needs him to be. Shame cause the potential was there but he can't stay on the field and certainly didn't bring any pop to the O this year when he was out there. I'm interested to see what Jackson will bring to the dance but even still I don't think he's the answer to the question. Hate to see Hillis go but I also understand he burnt a lot of bridges this year. Amazing how the dude goes form the King of Cleveland to the joker.

The Browns defense could get really good quickly if they drafted Claiborne and find another quality DE. Its just that the offense is going to suck for another year if they do it. That would be really weird as well - the Browns hire Holmgren, on offensive guy, to run things, and they hire an offensive head coach, and then build....an elite defense?

I'm pretty sold that the offense is going to suck regardless. I've been a Browns fan for about 33 years and I can say, unequivocally, we will not draft a Cam Newton that sets the world on fire regardless of the position. It's just that Cleveland thing. So, why not go CB & DE in the first? You have three picks to move around with as well as a couple in the second(?) to package together to get your CB/DE/QB IMO. It would take some dealing but I'm confident Heckart can wheel & deal it.

[i think I misspoke because I meant "later" like round 3-4, not at the very end. The current regime in Cleveland has only selected 1 WR in its first two drafts like that, Greg Little, and I think he's a decent pick. He's better than anything we had .

I actually like Little a lot. I think he has a ton of upside and after being out of organized ball for a year I think he did about as well as you could expect a rookie to do. What he needs to do now is catch about 1,000 balls a day until the season starts. If he still has the dropsies next year I'd be worried. Great article in this month's SI about how Greg Jennings turned his drops around by using a new training technique developed by Nike, sign up yesterday Greg.

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#1 - not so sure about this now. I'm pretty sure Hillis has seen the error of his ways (his ####ty representation i.e. his brother) and has been contrite in his behavior. Makes all the sense in the world to resign him cheaper than they were going to and run him into the dirt.

#2 - maybe but if they resign Hillis and get Brandon Jackson back healthy I could seriously see them going CB here and there is certainly a need for it.

#3 - they will draft a WR, not sure who and probably pick up one through FA. Can't see them getting Jackson but who knows.

#4 - I absolutely agree we will & should trade if RG3 is on the board. I really think they are in love with a CB with this pick and he will be there if they trade down.

All that said I listened to the Holmgren presser this week and I was completely underwhelmed with his responses. There is absolutely no sense of urgency in Cleveland right now, none. I wanted to hear somebody fired up & pissed off and it couldn't have been further from that. Holmgren said "I'm not in tough spots anymore", I almost fell outta my chair when I heard that. 4-12 not tough enough for you Mike? Plan on going 3-13 next year? The other quote that set me off was "our system allows for a QB that isn't 6'4" 240lbs to succeed". Did you watch a game this year Mike? He also talked about their "system" ad nauseum which gets me to my point. RG3 does not fir the Browns current system and they are committed to it so I don't see him coming to Cleveland anytime soon other than in an opposing uniform. I have heard repeatedly that they are in love with Ryan Tannehill and I'm betting with one of the other 1st rounders he will be the QB you see in a Browns uniform.

I think they are (and I can't believe I'm saying this) confident in McCoy and Wallace and truly believe they came make Tannehill the future and bridge the gap with McCoy and/or Wallace. Flynn is a sexy pick but I think his price tag outweighs his potential and the Browns aren't gong to gamble on him. They need so much else, a DE, a CB, OL help a few WR's I just don't see them rolling dice on Flynn.

I don't mean to point this directly at you, because there are a LOT of talking heads in Cleveland that are saying the same thing... so don't take this the wrong way, but what the HECK do people want from Holmgren?!? They want him to come out in a end of the season presser trashing him team up and down and screaming about how heads are gonna roll? It's IDIOCY. How often do you see higher ups in the Steelers, Colts, Patriots, Packets etc expressing "urgency" in press conferences? Does that translate to winning? Will Holmgren freaking out help the Browns make the playoffs next year? What kind of magic fairytale land do Browns fans live in where they think if the guy upstairs just gets upset then they can transform a crappy team into a great one? Please show me all the examples in football where urgency == winning.

The worst part is most people agree with the basic tenets of how the Browns are trying to build a team- get guys through the draft and supplement a little with free agency. Yet, they expect the management to go bat#### loco when the team doesn't start winning in year 1. I mean do you see the disconnect here? It takes time to build a winning team. Getting upset about it and being "urgent" isn't gonna somehow make it go any faster. If anything making decisions "urgently" translates to all the years of losing this team has experienced. Remember when Phil Savage rampaged through free agency picking up guys left and right? IT DOESN'T WORK.

I understand that people are frustrated by the losing, hell I'm sick of watching it every Sunday for the last decade, but please Browns fans, grow up.

Also, please stop taking Holmgren at his word when he talks about Colt. It's driving me crazy. He can't trash the kid. He can only say nice things about him right now. We will see when the season starts- there will be another QB in here. If anything, look at what Heckert said in the presser since he is much less politic than Holmgren. The best thing he said about Colt was that the Browns "still think he can be a guy for us." He can be a "guy" for us. I mean you don't even have to read in between the lines (which no Browns fans can do apparently) to get that one.

/rant

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Granted the needs of each team and where they picked obviously had an effect on these picks, but these are the 1st and 2nd round picks made by Tom Heckert (along with Andy Reid in Philly) over the past 7 drafts...

Cleveland

2011: 1.21 - DT (Phil Taylor), 2.05 DE (Jabaal Sheard), 2.27 - WR (Greg Little)

2010: 1.07 - CB (Joe Haden), 2.06 - S (T.J. Ward), 2.27 - RB (Montario Hardesty)

Philadelphia

2009: 1.19 - WR (Jeremy Maclin), 2.21 - RB (LeSean McCoy)

2008: 2.16 - DT (Trevor Laws), 2.18 - WR (DeSean Jackson)

2007: 2.04 - QB (Kevin Kolb), 2.25 - DE (Victor Abiamiri)

2006: 1.14 - DT (Brodrick Bunkley), 2.07 - OT (Winston Justice)

2005: 1.31 - DT (Mike Patterson), 2.03 - WR (Reggie Brown), 2.31 - LB (Matt McCoy)

17 picks

1 QB

2 RBs

4 WRs

1 OL

6 DL

1 LB

1 CB

1 S

I have no idea what this means for the 2012 draft. <_<

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Granted the needs of each team and where they picked obviously had an effect on these picks, but these are the 1st and 2nd round picks made by Tom Heckert (along with Andy Reid in Philly) over the past 7 drafts...

Cleveland

2011: 1.21 - DT (Phil Taylor), 2.05 DE (Jabaal Sheard), 2.27 - WR (Greg Little)

2010: 1.07 - CB (Joe Haden), 2.06 - S (T.J. Ward), 2.27 - RB (Montario Hardesty)

Philadelphia

2009: 1.19 - WR (Jeremy Maclin), 2.21 - RB (LeSean McCoy)

2008: 2.16 - DT (Trevor Laws), 2.18 - WR (DeSean Jackson)

2007: 2.04 - QB (Kevin Kolb), 2.25 - DE (Victor Abiamiri)

2006: 1.14 - DT (Brodrick Bunkley), 2.07 - OT (Winston Justice)

2005: 1.31 - DT (Mike Patterson), 2.03 - WR (Reggie Brown), 2.31 - LB (Matt McCoy)

17 picks

1 QB

2 RBs

4 WRs

1 OL

6 DL

1 LB

1 CB

1 S

I have no idea what this means for the 2012 draft. <_<

It looks like just about every single one of them are productive. Almost all of the ones that weren't, suffered major injuries, and I won't hold that against Heckert. You have to feel confident Heckert will find guys who can play every draft.

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Granted the needs of each team and where they picked obviously had an effect on these picks, but these are the 1st and 2nd round picks made by Tom Heckert (along with Andy Reid in Philly) over the past 7 drafts...

Cleveland

2011: 1.21 - DT (Phil Taylor), 2.05 DE (Jabaal Sheard), 2.27 - WR (Greg Little)

2010: 1.07 - CB (Joe Haden), 2.06 - S (T.J. Ward), 2.27 - RB (Montario Hardesty)

Philadelphia

2009: 1.19 - WR (Jeremy Maclin), 2.21 - RB (LeSean McCoy)

2008: 2.16 - DT (Trevor Laws), 2.18 - WR (DeSean Jackson)

2007: 2.04 - QB (Kevin Kolb), 2.25 - DE (Victor Abiamiri)

2006: 1.14 - DT (Brodrick Bunkley), 2.07 - OT (Winston Justice)

2005: 1.31 - DT (Mike Patterson), 2.03 - WR (Reggie Brown), 2.31 - LB (Matt McCoy)

17 picks

1 QB

2 RBs

4 WRs

1 OL

6 DL

1 LB

1 CB

1 S

I have no idea what this means for the 2012 draft. <_<

It looks like just about every single one of them are productive. Almost all of the ones that weren't, suffered major injuries, and I won't hold that against Heckert. You have to feel confident Heckert will find guys who can play every draft.
Heckert is the only guy I do trust in the Browns leadership trio.

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Granted the needs of each team and where they picked obviously had an effect on these picks, but these are the 1st and 2nd round picks made by Tom Heckert (along with Andy Reid in Philly) over the past 7 drafts...

Cleveland

2011: 1.21 - DT (Phil Taylor), 2.05 DE (Jabaal Sheard), 2.27 - WR (Greg Little)

2010: 1.07 - CB (Joe Haden), 2.06 - S (T.J. Ward), 2.27 - RB (Montario Hardesty)

Philadelphia

2009: 1.19 - WR (Jeremy Maclin), 2.21 - RB (LeSean McCoy)

2008: 2.16 - DT (Trevor Laws), 2.18 - WR (DeSean Jackson)

2007: 2.04 - QB (Kevin Kolb), 2.25 - DE (Victor Abiamiri)

2006: 1.14 - DT (Brodrick Bunkley), 2.07 - OT (Winston Justice)

2005: 1.31 - DT (Mike Patterson), 2.03 - WR (Reggie Brown), 2.31 - LB (Matt McCoy)

17 picks

1 QB

2 RBs

4 WRs

1 OL

6 DL

1 LB

1 CB

1 S

I have no idea what this means for the 2012 draft. <_<

It looks like just about every single one of them are productive. Almost all of the ones that weren't, suffered major injuries, and I won't hold that against Heckert. You have to feel confident Heckert will find guys who can play every draft.
Heckert is the only guy I do trust in the Browns leadership trio.
Weird, because if I met any of them in public I would think Heckert is a bit kooky and is probably the team janitor.

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someone said somthing about Hillis not being durable. he had a hammy issue this year. so did alot of other rb this year. there were so many that went down it was unreal. hardesty has more of a durability problem than hillis. hell last year hillis played through broken ribs last few weeks.

there was one week when hillis aggravated his hammy. he was pissed. later in the game he got put back in to block because the other sorry asses couldnt handle it. Hillis is an huge asset to this team.

Shurm doesnt know how to use hillis properly or any other player. hardly any catches out of the backfield.

like i said before get a little scat back in the mold of sproles or use cribbs more as a rb. or hell even use little some he did play rb in college.

play calling, penalties and just no clue by the coaches except juron killed us and will continue until something is done.

get a known good db in asante samuel to fill that void

draft a top tier ol for the right side.

either go after v. jackson or draft blackmon. i just dont think d. jackson and his attitude would fit here. has the skill but he is for himself bigtime and think it will cost more to get him

need to add another good de and a couple lb's either via draft or fa. cant find a fa list of def players so im not sure who would be available.

keep colt 1 more year and see what he can do with an actual preseason and a year to learn the play book. true he wasnt the greatest back there but the best we have had since 99. 2 different systems in 2 years with the team. he is a smart qb and needs to know its ok to make a mistake. i think that was his major problem this year. he was afraid to throw the ball into tight coverage.im sure a lot of it had to do with the drops we had.

and for gods sake get evan moore involved in the off more. the dude has great hands and speed. i could envision him being capable of putting up graham type of numbers if they just used him.

found a free agent list here .. not sure how accurate it is though

Edited by rabiddawgs

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The Browns aren't complacent, they aren't clueless, they aren't lazy, they are just bad.

I'll isolate this comment for my rant below of our season of ridiculousness and why there's no reason to believe we'll ever win with Pat Shurmur*We out played Cincinnati for 3 1/2 quarters, but let them hang around the game because once we got a lead we just went into run-run-pass-punt mode - which is what we did everytime we got a lead this year (also, see - Seattle, St Louis, Cincinnati round 2, Arizona)*Then we had a complete mental meltdown when Cincy broke the huddle while our defenders stood around aimlessly waiting for a play call while no one on the field or on the sideline called a timeout (you will also see such cases as with our 3rd string tight end who never received a carry since high school getting a key 3rd & 1 which he in turn fumbled and then we biffed the field goal. Also you'll want to reference the end of Baltimore round 2, when we only got ONE PLAY off in the final 40 SECONDS of the half.)Mistakes happen, but when you continue to repeat the same dumb mistakes over and over again why the hell should I believe you are going to fix it?Where was I? Oh yea. 2 minute drill. DO WE EVEN PRACTICE ONE? On top of the Baltimore one you could have fooled me against Houston, Oakland, among others. How about when we're just coming from behind? Well, going through the motions calling the same plays when down 2+ scores in the 4th quarter and still taking 35 seconds after each play to snap the ball against Tennessee, San Francisco, Houston, Baltimore, and again I'm sure others just screams 'I don't care about winning.'How about the worst PR staff in the entire league? We have our history with staph infections, leaked stories, a lousy locker room, and coaches behaving badly so you'd think we'd learn. No. Every PR situation we screw up. Hillis' contract. Colt's concussion. Josh Cribbs tweeting. Hillis' contract. Seneca Wallace acting as locker room mole. Hillis' contract. Or how about we take the only good thing we have (the special teams) and let every one of them leave only to watch our special teams become a laughing stock costing us game after game after game this year...and it should have been one more but the phantom hold called back Seattle's punt return TD.Now, please tell me why I am supposed to believe in this team. Edited by MAC_32

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I don't have my mind made up yet of what I'd like to see in the draft, and I think alot depends on free agency, but there is something about Richardson that just makes me very hesitant about wanting to see him in a Browns uni. I even root for Bama unless they happen to be playing the Buckeyes. Can't put my finger on what it is though. Hopefully if we take him I'm dead wrong.

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The Browns aren't complacent, they aren't clueless, they aren't lazy, they are just bad.

I'll isolate this comment for my rant below of our season of ridiculousness and why there's no reason to believe we'll ever win with Pat Shurmur

*We out played Cincinnati for 3 1/2 quarters, but let them hang around the game because once we got a lead we just went into run-run-pass-punt mode - which is what we did everytime we got a lead this year (also, see - Seattle, St Louis, Cincinnati round 2, Arizona)

*Then we had a complete mental meltdown when Cincy broke the huddle while our defenders stood around aimlessly waiting for a play call while no one on the field or on the sideline called a timeout (you will also see such cases as with our 3rd string tight end who never received a carry since high school getting a key 3rd & 1 which he in turn fumbled and then we biffed the field goal. Also you'll want to reference the end of Baltimore round 2, when we only got ONE PLAY off in the final 40 SECONDS of the half.)

Mistakes happen, but when you continue to repeat the same dumb mistakes over and over again why the hell should I believe you are going to fix it?

Where was I? Oh yea. 2 minute drill. DO WE EVEN PRACTICE ONE? On top of the Baltimore one you could have fooled me against Houston, Oakland, among others. How about when we're just coming from behind? Well, going through the motions calling the same plays when down 2+ scores in the 4th quarter and still taking 35 seconds after each play to snap the ball against Tennessee, San Francisco, Houston, Baltimore, and again I'm sure others just screams 'I don't care about winning.'

How about the worst PR staff in the entire league? We have our history with staph infections, leaked stories, a lousy locker room, and coaches behaving badly so you'd think we'd learn. No. Every PR situation we screw up. Hillis' contract. Colt's concussion. Josh Cribbs tweeting. Hillis' contract. Seneca Wallace acting as locker room mole. Hillis' contract.

Or how about we take the only good thing we have (the special teams) and let every one of them leave only to watch our special teams become a laughing stock costing us game after game after game this year...and it should have been one more but the phantom hold called back Seattle's punt return TD.

Now, please tell me why I am supposed to believe in this team.

Don't agree completely with your rant, but holy hell is this point spot on! The media exacerbates it, but WOW is the PR team terrible.

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I don't have my mind made up yet of what I'd like to see in the draft, and I think alot depends on free agency, but there is something about Richardson that just makes me very hesitant about wanting to see him in a Browns uni. I even root for Bama unless they happen to be playing the Buckeyes. Can't put my finger on what it is though. Hopefully if we take him I'm dead wrong.

I'm kinda the opposite - not sold they should take a RB that high but feeling like Richardson will be a stud and that I wouldn't mind seeing him in orange and brown.

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The Cleveland Plain Dealer expects the Browns to "take a hard look" at selecting a quarterback with the No. 4 overall pick in the draft.Conceivably, Heisman Trophy winner and Baylor QB Robert Griffin III could still be available at No. 4 since both the Rams and Vikings are set at quarterback, but the odds many teams won't be jockeying to trade into the top three are low. Still undecided on whether or not he'll turn pro, Griffin has until Sunday to make up his mind.

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The Cleveland Plain Dealer expects the Browns to "take a hard look" at selecting a quarterback with the No. 4 overall pick in the draft.Conceivably, Heisman Trophy winner and Baylor QB Robert Griffin III could still be available at No. 4 since both the Rams and Vikings are set at quarterback, but the odds many teams won't be jockeying to trade into the top three are low. Still undecided on whether or not he'll turn pro, Griffin has until Sunday to make up his mind.

Word I heard today was the Browns would take a look at RG3 and do their due diligence but he has to win over Holmgren. Heckart is sporting wood over the defensive players arrayed before him at the #4 pick and Holmgren mentioned last week that his one true regret while at Seattle was not building the defense first. Edited by beer 30

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found a free agent list here .. not sure how accurate it is though

I don't advocate trying to overhaul and/or fix a roster through free agency, but I certainly wouldn't mind the front office doing their due diligence on the following skill players:

Mike Tolbert – SD

Jerome Simpson – CIN

Laurent Robinson – DAL

Eddie Royal – DEN

Robert Meachem – NO

Mario Manningham - NYG

Josh Morgan – SF

I don't think there's a need to make any big splashes, so I didn't include any "big" names, but it sure would be nice to get another NFL WR to line up opposite Little. Of that list, I'd really like to see what the price tag is on Manningham and Robinson if they aren't signed by their respective teams.

ETA: Manningham was born in Warren, Ohio. Probably doesn't mean anything, but we've seen plenty of players come back home during their careers.

Edited by GreatLakesMike

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from what i understand holmgren said that shurm needed to hire an off cord.. i have not seen any updates about this if they have talked to someone to fill this position... has anyone heard/seen anything? tons of movement by everyone other nfl team but ours.

Edited by rabiddawgs

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Pondering this draft strategy:

1.04 CB Morris Claiborne

1.27 DE Fletcher Cox

2.04 RB David Wilson (speedy back, with great hands, some say he may not be an everydown back)

3.04 WR Tommy Streeter (has size, speed, could be the go route option, needs work on running routes)

4.04 OG

This draft could make the defense turn the corner. You got 2 DTs to clog up the middle, two young DEs to take advantage of that and rush the passer, and two great talents at CB. Plus you get an RB and #1 WR prospect, and a little help for the OL.

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