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wadegarrett

**** CLEVELAND BROWNS THREAD ****

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from what i understand holmgren said that shurm needed to hire an off cord.. i have not seen any updates about this if they have talked to someone to fill this position... has anyone heard/seen anything? tons of movement by everyone other nfl team but ours.

Haven't heard anything more about it other than Childress's name mentioned at the outset.

Pondering this draft strategy:1.04 CB Morris Claiborne1.27 DE Fletcher Cox2.04 RB David Wilson (speedy back, with great hands, some say he may not be an everydown back)3.04 WR Tommy Streeter (has size, speed, could be the go route option, needs work on running routes)4.04 OGThis draft could make the defense turn the corner. You got 2 DTs to clog up the middle, two young DEs to take advantage of that and rush the passer, and two great talents at CB. Plus you get an RB and #1 WR prospect, and a little help for the OL.

I like that actually. Commit to making the D an absolute wall and do what you can for the offense. WR are hit or miss outside the typical first round picks (see Blackmon who I think will be a beast), one can be as good as another in that range. I'd like to see another good LB added to the mix, not sure how much more Fujita has in the tank at 32 although I really like his leadership on the team.

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I don't know if they'll use that high of a pick on a DE with Benard coming back next year.

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Pondering this draft strategy:1.04 CB Morris Claiborne1.27 DE Fletcher Cox2.04 RB David Wilson (speedy back, with great hands, some say he may not be an everydown back)3.04 WR Tommy Streeter (has size, speed, could be the go route option, needs work on running routes)4.04 OGThis draft could make the defense turn the corner. You got 2 DTs to clog up the middle, two young DEs to take advantage of that and rush the passer, and two great talents at CB. Plus you get an RB and #1 WR prospect, and a little help for the OL.

Would us having 1.22 change your pick there or was that just a typo?And Tec...Bernard is definitely a forgotten man in town here. Wonder how he's been progressing.

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TH: "We know we need playmakers" :clap:

Other than this there wasn't a whole heck of a lot of information gleaned by me. Couple of notes:- OC is Shurmur's decision with input from him & Holmgren- want to build team through draft- will move out of 4 if opportunity presents itself- haven't talked to Hillis's folks since mid-season but qualified by saying they haven't talked to any unrestricted FA's yet.- they (Holmgren, Lerner, Heckert) all know they have to improve and win more games- open to taking defense at #4 but it kinda sounded like they were leaning offenseLike I said, there was nothing of real substance to me but it's so freaking early I didn't expect there to be any great revelation.

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Reading through the tea leaves of both of his interviews today

We want Hillis back, but at our price. We will let him test free agency and if no one bites we'll accept him back. This one's 50/50 imho, it just depends how badly others want him.

We will bring in competition for Colt but I don't think we want RG3. If RG3 is there at 4 we will auction the pick...or take Blackmon instead.

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I don't know if they'll use that high of a pick on a DE with Benard coming back next year.

They want depth on the DL. They had to play Sheard way too much. I see them stocking up with high quality guys so one injury doesn't screw their DL over.

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How does a team with no legit WRs not draft Blackmon?

They also have no legit QB?
We dropped a couple of games because of bad snaps. I say we go long snapper at #4. Edited by NJDawgPound

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How does a team with no legit WRs not draft Blackmon?

They also have no legit QB?
We dropped a couple of games because of bad snaps. I say we go long snapper at #4.
I know, right? They could have put up 15 points and beat the Rams.

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How does a team with no legit WRs not draft Blackmon?

They also have no legit QB?
We dropped a couple of games because of bad snaps. I say we go long snapper at #4.
I know, right? They could have put up 15 points and beat the Rams.
It's very easy for a team with "no legit WRs" (although I'm a Little fan) to pass on Blackmon if the GM doesn't think that Blackmon is a bonafide #1 WR. I have no clue what Heckert is thinking, but the whole "draft by need" philosophy is just a bad one. Heckert's trying to build a roster, not patch a leak.If Heckert drafts Blackmon, then great, but if not, then so be it. Heckert's first two drafts for the Browns have been quite impressive IMO, so I trust him to put together another nice draft in 2012.

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I don't know if they'll use that high of a pick on a DE with Benard coming back next year.

They want depth on the DL. They had to play Sheard way too much. I see them stocking up with high quality guys so one injury doesn't screw their DL over.
I don't think Benard is going to stop the Browns from drafting a DE early regardless of whether they have depth or not. We're talking about Marcus Benard, not Jared Allen.

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I don't know if they'll use that high of a pick on a DE with Benard coming back next year.

They want depth on the DL. They had to play Sheard way too much. I see them stocking up with high quality guys so one injury doesn't screw their DL over.
I don't think Benard is going to stop the Browns from drafting a DE early regardless of whether they have depth or not. We're talking about Marcus Benard, not Jared Allen.
:goodposting:

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I am opposed to it but just saw this over at rotoworld

Citing league sources, ESPN's Adam Schefter reports that the Packers are "unlikely" to place the franchise tag on impending free agent Matt Flynn.The Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel and SI's Peter King had previously suggested that franchising Flynn would at least be a consideration for the Packers, in an effort to pull a sign-and-trade deal. Instead, Green Bay's franchise tag figures to be used on Jermichael Finley. This would make Flynn easier for teams like the Seahawks and Redskins to acquire. He isn't going to cost a draft pick.

but not opposed to signing nicks

ESPN’s Adam Schefter reports impending free agent LG Carl Nicks is "expected to leave" the Saints.A first-team All-Pro, Nicks would typically be a strong candidate for the franchise tag, but the Saints may be forced to use it on Drew Brees, allowing Nicks to hit the open market. Marques Colston is another pricey Saints free agent. Pro Football Focus' second-rated guard in the league in 2011, Nicks is in line for a monster deal heading into his age-27 campaign.

Edited by rabiddawgs

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I'd be very surprised if we pay big $ for Nicks unless Steinbach's rehab is going poorly a/o he gets cut for cap purposes.

If Green Bay doesn't franchise Flynn I'm interested, I'm very surprised to see the Pack choosing Finley over early draft picks though.

I think this year will be a lot like last year, we will sit out wave #1 of free agency and start to shop in wave #2. No key cogs, but role players. For better or worse.

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thats the one thing that pisses me off... waiting on wave 2

maybe with how the right side played and the ?'s surrounding steinbach holgren actually tries and goes after nicks.

i just dont think that the "name" back up qb will be anygood. too many mitchels, kolbs, rob johnson, maddox. in a way cassel.. just to name a few... more of a list of of back-ups that had good games that failed on other teams then that made it. i cant even think of any right now

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thats the one thing that pisses me off... waiting on wave 2maybe with how the right side played and the ?'s surrounding steinbach holgren actually tries and goes after nicks.i just dont think that the "name" back up qb will be anygood. too many mitchels, kolbs, rob johnson, maddox. in a way cassel.. just to name a few... more of a list of of back-ups that had good games that failed on other teams then that made it. i cant even think of any right now

There are plenty of backups who had success with new teams: Mark Brunell (Packers to Jaguars), Matt Hasselback (Packers to Seahawks), Matt Schaub (Falcons to Texans), Jake Delhomme (Saints to Panthers), and Matt Cassel (Patriots to Chiefs) just off the top of my head.

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thats the one thing that pisses me off... waiting on wave 2maybe with how the right side played and the ?'s surrounding steinbach holgren actually tries and goes after nicks.i just dont think that the "name" back up qb will be anygood. too many mitchels, kolbs, rob johnson, maddox. in a way cassel.. just to name a few... more of a list of of back-ups that had good games that failed on other teams then that made it. i cant even think of any right now

We can't get Luck. Barkley stayed in school. They don't want Griffin. Flynn probably won't choose to play here. I think....the QB just isn't there. We're stuck with what we got for another season. No need to force it with a trade for Kolb, because he's probably not the answer either.

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thats the one thing that pisses me off... waiting on wave 2

maybe with how the right side played and the ?'s surrounding steinbach holgren actually tries and goes after nicks.

i just dont think that the "name" back up qb will be anygood. too many mitchels, kolbs, rob johnson, maddox. in a way cassel.. just to name a few... more of a list of of back-ups that had good games that failed on other teams then that made it. i cant even think of any right now

We can't get Luck. Barkley stayed in school. They don't want Griffin. Flynn probably won't choose to play here. I think....the QB just isn't there. We're stuck with what we got for another season. No need to force it with a trade for Kolb, because he's probably not the answer either.
Kolb could be an answer as he looked really good heading into the season with the same offense a couple of years ago. Heckert knows him very well. I don't want that contract though.

As for Flynn, :moneybag: talks.

Many of these guys are fierce competitors with mega egos, why wouldn't you want to come to Cleveland? If a QB even brings the team to the playoffs, he'll own this town.

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Wouldn't mind seeing what Thaddeus Lewis can do if they don't draft a qb early or sign Flynn, who was a 7th round pick by the way. Lewis had good stats in preseason games which doesn't mean much, but you never know. Waldman had him rated higher than McCoy in his RSP.

Current starting qb's that weren't 1st rounders:

Matt Hasselbeck, 6th round 1998.- 2011 1st round pick #8 Jake Locker soon to take over.

Tom Brady, 6th round 2000

Drew Brees, 1st pick of 2nd round 2001

Matt Shaub, 3rd round 2004

Ryan Fitzpatrick, 7th round 2005

Matt Cassel, 7th round 2005

Tarvaris Jackson, 2nd round 2006

Chad Henne/Matt Moore, 2nd round 2008/undrafted 2007

John Skelton, 5th round 2010

Colt McCoy, 3rd round 2010

Andy Dalton, 2nd round 2011

66% of current starting quarterbacks were 1st round picks. What does it mean? There are some exceptions, but a 1st rounder is the way to go.

Super Bowl winning quarterbacks that were not 1st rounders-

Drew Brees - 2nd round 2001

Tom Brady - 6th round 2000

Brad Johnson - 9th round 1992

Brett Favre - 2nd round 1991

Kurt Warner - undrafted 1994

Mark Rypien - 6th round 1986

Jeff Hostetler - 3rd round 1984

Joe Montana - 3rd round 1979

Joe Theismann - 4th round 1971

Roger Staubach - 10th round 1964* - After winning Heisman Trophy, did his required service in the U.S. Navy including a tour in Vietnam. Did not play in the NFL until 1969.

Ken Stabler - 2nd round 1968

John Unitas - 9th round 1955

Bart Starr - 17th round 1956

Only 13 starting qb's that were not 1st round picks have won Super Bowl

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thats the one thing that pisses me off... waiting on wave 2

maybe with how the right side played and the ?'s surrounding steinbach holgren actually tries and goes after nicks.

i just dont think that the "name" back up qb will be anygood. too many mitchels, kolbs, rob johnson, maddox. in a way cassel.. just to name a few... more of a list of of back-ups that had good games that failed on other teams then that made it. i cant even think of any right now

We can't get Luck. Barkley stayed in school. They don't want Griffin. Flynn probably won't choose to play here. I think....the QB just isn't there. We're stuck with what we got for another season. No need to force it with a trade for Kolb, because he's probably not the answer either.
Kolb could be an answer as he looked really good heading into the season with the same offense a couple of years ago. Heckert knows him very well. I don't want that contract though.

As for Flynn, :moneybag: talks.

Many of these guys are fierce competitors with mega egos, why wouldn't you want to come to Cleveland? If a QB even brings the team to the playoffs, he'll own this town.

Kolb = bum

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Pondering this draft strategy:1.04 CB Morris Claiborne1.27 DE Fletcher Cox2.04 RB David Wilson (speedy back, with great hands, some say he may not be an everydown back)3.04 WR Tommy Streeter (has size, speed, could be the go route option, needs work on running routes)4.04 OGThis draft could make the defense turn the corner. You got 2 DTs to clog up the middle, two young DEs to take advantage of that and rush the passer, and two great talents at CB. Plus you get an RB and #1 WR prospect, and a little help for the OL.

Admittedly, I've not done much homework on Cox, but I am liking this. I would not be upset at all if Kendall Wrights name was there instead. I was watching some game film of his and I think this vid shows some pretty positive attributes. After watching it though I am a little more than apprehensive about RG3. His footwork looks terrible but he is making the throws. Maybe that part of his game can be coached out. I hate the highlight real videos because they can make anyone look good just seeing their best plays. This one shows every touch in the game by Wright. I'll add as a Hurricane fan I would love to have Streeter come to CLE. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ld5lwuDP66IAny thoughts are appreciated. :football:

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Any thoughts are appreciated. :football:

Only thing this video showed me is that I don't want either RGIII or Wright. RGIII completed one pass more than 10-15 yards down field and that was on a tipped pass that fell into Wright's hands. Wright looked fine, but not better than any other guy you could probably get in the 2nd or 3rd round. While it's certainly not their complete body of work, that video would make me pass on both of them for bigger needs.

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Griffin threw for 479 yards and four touchdowns, including a 34-yarder to Terrance Williams with 8 seconds left.

Not in that video he didn't.

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As per Rotoworld:

"League sources" tell NFL.com's Steve Wyche the Browns are hoping to land Baylor QB Robert Griffin III in April's draft.Wyche delivered the info in the middle of a mock draft, but it's still notable as the first semi-confirmation of something that has been speculated for weeks. The Browns would likely have to acquire St. Louis' No. 2 overall pick to ensure landing the 2011 Heisman Trophy winner, but with both the No. 4 and No. 22 selections, they are in excellent position to trade up. The Browns have made it clear Colt McCoy will face competition in 2012, and if it's in the form of Griffin, it's a competition he'd almost certainly lose.

Smokescreen or not?

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As per Rotoworld:

"League sources" tell NFL.com's Steve Wyche the Browns are hoping to land Baylor QB Robert Griffin III in April's draft.Wyche delivered the info in the middle of a mock draft, but it's still notable as the first semi-confirmation of something that has been speculated for weeks. The Browns would likely have to acquire St. Louis' No. 2 overall pick to ensure landing the 2011 Heisman Trophy winner, but with both the No. 4 and No. 22 selections, they are in excellent position to trade up. The Browns have made it clear Colt McCoy will face competition in 2012, and if it's in the form of Griffin, it's a competition he'd almost certainly lose.

Smokescreen or not?
I sure hope so.Although, I'm not sure what kind of smokescreen that would be. If we don't want RG3, don't we want him to fall to 4 so that the possibility is there to deal with Wash or Mia or ???Why are we baiting somebody to move to 2 to take him? To ensure our player is there at 4? Uggh.

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Or we just legit want RG3.

It's not a smokescreen.

We just know the teams infront of us, arent moving down. They know who they want, and they will take them at their respective spots.

Like I said... get your RG3 jerseys now

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As per Rotoworld:

"League sources" tell NFL.com's Steve Wyche the Browns are hoping to land Baylor QB Robert Griffin III in April's draft.Wyche delivered the info in the middle of a mock draft, but it's still notable as the first semi-confirmation of something that has been speculated for weeks. The Browns would likely have to acquire St. Louis' No. 2 overall pick to ensure landing the 2011 Heisman Trophy winner, but with both the No. 4 and No. 22 selections, they are in excellent position to trade up. The Browns have made it clear Colt McCoy will face competition in 2012, and if it's in the form of Griffin, it's a competition he'd almost certainly lose.

Smokescreen or not?
I sure hope not

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As per Rotoworld:

"League sources" tell NFL.com's Steve Wyche the Browns are hoping to land Baylor QB Robert Griffin III in April's draft.Wyche delivered the info in the middle of a mock draft, but it's still notable as the first semi-confirmation of something that has been speculated for weeks. The Browns would likely have to acquire St. Louis' No. 2 overall pick to ensure landing the 2011 Heisman Trophy winner, but with both the No. 4 and No. 22 selections, they are in excellent position to trade up. The Browns have made it clear Colt McCoy will face competition in 2012, and if it's in the form of Griffin, it's a competition he'd almost certainly lose.

Smokescreen or not?
Thanks for posting.Why the hell would we move up? He's gonna be there at 4. The Rams are certainly not taking him. I highly doubt the Vikings would take him. And I don't think anyone else has the ammo or desire to move ahead of us. This is :bs:

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As per Rotoworld:

"League sources" tell NFL.com's Steve Wyche the Browns are hoping to land Baylor QB Robert Griffin III in April's draft.Wyche delivered the info in the middle of a mock draft, but it's still notable as the first semi-confirmation of something that has been speculated for weeks. The Browns would likely have to acquire St. Louis' No. 2 overall pick to ensure landing the 2011 Heisman Trophy winner, but with both the No. 4 and No. 22 selections, they are in excellent position to trade up. The Browns have made it clear Colt McCoy will face competition in 2012, and if it's in the form of Griffin, it's a competition he'd almost certainly lose.

Smokescreen or not?
Thanks for posting.Why the hell would we move up? He's gonna be there at 4. The Rams are certainly not taking him. I highly doubt the Vikings would take him. And I don't think anyone else has the ammo or desire to move ahead of us. This is :bs:
If we wanted Griffin III, I think our only competition would be Shanahan and the Skins. They'll figure something out to move ahead of us.

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As per Rotoworld:

"League sources" tell NFL.com's Steve Wyche the Browns are hoping to land Baylor QB Robert Griffin III in April's draft.Wyche delivered the info in the middle of a mock draft, but it's still notable as the first semi-confirmation of something that has been speculated for weeks. The Browns would likely have to acquire St. Louis' No. 2 overall pick to ensure landing the 2011 Heisman Trophy winner, but with both the No. 4 and No. 22 selections, they are in excellent position to trade up. The Browns have made it clear Colt McCoy will face competition in 2012, and if it's in the form of Griffin, it's a competition he'd almost certainly lose.

Smokescreen or not?
Thanks for posting.Why the hell would we move up? He's gonna be there at 4. The Rams are certainly not taking him. I highly doubt the Vikings would take him. And I don't think anyone else has the ammo or desire to move ahead of us. This is :bs:
If we wanted Griffin III, I think our only competition would be Shanahan and the Skins. They'll figure something out to move ahead of us.
Rams will stay put. as will the vikings.The weapons they need are there at 2/3, and wont be if they move down.

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As per Rotoworld:

"League sources" tell NFL.com's Steve Wyche the Browns are hoping to land Baylor QB Robert Griffin III in April's draft.Wyche delivered the info in the middle of a mock draft, but it's still notable as the first semi-confirmation of something that has been speculated for weeks. The Browns would likely have to acquire St. Louis' No. 2 overall pick to ensure landing the 2011 Heisman Trophy winner, but with both the No. 4 and No. 22 selections, they are in excellent position to trade up. The Browns have made it clear Colt McCoy will face competition in 2012, and if it's in the form of Griffin, it's a competition he'd almost certainly lose.

Smokescreen or not?
For all we know it could be the Rams putting that out there to generate interest in the #2 pick. Or it could be a neutral party trying to stir the pot and sell newspapers.

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agree with the last post. Why would the Browns bother showing their hand?? Isn't the draft one giant high stakes poker game??

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RG3 is going to end up being drafted #2 by somebody. I don't think it'll be the Browns because I don't think we'll trade up. If he falls to 4 we'll really find out if the Browns want him or not, but I doubt we get that opportunity. I don't think we do.

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RG3 is going to end up being drafted #2 by somebody. I don't think it'll be the Browns because I don't think we'll trade up. If he falls to 4 we'll really find out if the Browns want him or not, but I doubt we get that opportunity. I don't think we do.

I don't think he goes #2. Kalil should be the Rams choice & he's too good to give up. If the Rams trade out of #2, they lose him. That would be very stupid.

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Some of you may have seen (and I didn't see it posted) but Kiper recently regraded teams on their 2011 draft picks...here's the Browns...

Post-draft grade: B+

Summary: Forgive the superlatives, but this draft could be a quiet monster in terms of getting value up and down the board. It's a fair critique to wonder about the value of a rookie class on a top team versus the time rookies can see for a noncontender such as Cleveland. And the Browns still need to get something done on offense if they want to compete, particularly at quarterback. But you at least can say the strength of this team is on defense, and the first two picks were a big part of that. No. 21 overall pick Phil Taylor started all 16 games and proved to be a great fit in this scheme. Jabaal Sheard looks like a future star and piled up 8.5 sacks along with forcing five fumbles. Greg Little needs to become more consistent, but, after missing a year of football, he showed hints of future stardom -- he had seven more catches than Julio Jones. Buster Skrine looks really good in what was already a good secondary, and Jason Pinkston gave the Browns 16 starts after being taken at No. 150. Owen Marecic and Jordan Cameron have potential. The offense couldn't do enough to make this team competitive, but it can't really take the shine off this class for me. Put it this way: If the Browns make the playoffs next season, it won't be because they had to replace any of these picks.

New grade: A-

Can't wait to see what Tom Heckert has in store for all these picks this year. :popcorn:

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The Akron Beacon Journal expects the Browns to stay put at the No. 4 overall draft slot if they can't find a way to trade down.Beat reporter Nate Ulrich points to GM Tom Heckert's tendency to "covet" draft picks, and believes the Browns will not trade up for Baylor QB Robert Griffin. NFL Network's Albert Breer and Jason La Canfora both think the Dolphins and Redskins are candidates to move up for Griffin. The Browns are known to be high on the 2011 Heisman winner, but may only get RG3 if he falls to No. 4.

Some common sense stuff... We were never going to move up. But if/when RG3 falls to 4, we are laughing all the way to the bank.I hate Minnesota as is... If they trade down to Miami/Washington, I'll declare war Edited by rizzler

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How do you guys like Kolb? It's looking more and more likely that he will be cut by the Cardinals and the Browns are the top destination.

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As per Rotoworld:

"League sources" tell NFL.com's Steve Wyche the Browns are hoping to land Baylor QB Robert Griffin III in April's draft.Wyche delivered the info in the middle of a mock draft, but it's still notable as the first semi-confirmation of something that has been speculated for weeks. The Browns would likely have to acquire St. Louis' No. 2 overall pick to ensure landing the 2011 Heisman Trophy winner, but with both the No. 4 and No. 22 selections, they are in excellent position to trade up. The Browns have made it clear Colt McCoy will face competition in 2012, and if it's in the form of Griffin, it's a competition he'd almost certainly lose.

Smokescreen or not?
When is it not a smokescreen when a coach says he's interested in player? RG3 is not going to be Brown.

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How do you guys like Kolb? It's looking more and more likely that he will be cut by the Cardinals and the Browns are the top destination.

He's a decent fit in a WCO, but I still don't like him very much. I hope Heckert feels the same, but I'm afraid that he might like him a lot.I do think though that the Browns will not bring in a very expensive free agent QB. If Kolb is commanding a lot of cash then I don't think we'll pick him up- too many question marks.

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