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wadegarrett

**** CLEVELAND BROWNS THREAD ****

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22 hours ago, travdogg said:

I hope Taylor isn't looked at in a negative light here. This was about Mayfield being good, not Taylor being bad. Taylor is absolutely a top-25 NFL QB. He was just handicapped by an offense designed to make him look bad. I half suspect Haley wanted to go with Mayfield as the starter the second he was drafted, and almost purposely poorly called 2.5 games. I mean, they basically were running an offense designed to ignore Taylor's strengths and showcase his weaknesses. It was like if the Patriots and Panthers swapped QB's but asked Brady to run Cam's offense and vice versa. Neither one would be even close to as effective.

With Drew Stanton around(he survived final cuts right?) I wonder if trading Taylor might not be a bad option? A lot of teams could use a top notch backup QB.

I commend you for your persistence I guess but your island is getting lonelier and lonelier.

Edited by Dr. Octopus

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10 hours ago, daveR said:

Regardless of who is calling the plays, an NFL QB needs to be able to hit a wide-open receiver running behind the defense.

There’s only 2 areas that are strengths for Taylor; running the ball and not turning it over. The second strength though is directly related to the fact that he plays like a scared rabbit from the pocket. He won’t throw to a WR that isn’t wide open - and he’ll miss on those often - and he’ll take off and run at the slightest pressure without looking for a WR to break open.

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On 9/21/2018 at 3:47 PM, lod001 said:

If Baker becomes what I think he is and Mahomes continues his pace, man this Dorsey guy becomes a legend.

I was really disappointed when Ted Thomspon retired and Dorsey had just signed with the Browns weeks ago. He's probably the best talent evaluator in the league. If he can find the right coach (and Haslam doesn't **** it up somehow), he's going to bring a Lombardi to Cleveland.

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Look I bought into the Baker hype after Thursday, all in, play the kid the rest of the way but you guys talking about trading Taylor, I think you’re jumping the gun. This is the AFC and the Browns routinely play 3 or more QB’s every year because of injuries. Let’s not rush into something that we might regret down the road. 

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Desmond Harrison is coming along nicely.

------------------------------------------------------

Cleveland Browns: PFF grades

Offensive Line

Desmond Harrison, LT, 68.8 : Rookie Desmond Harrison had his best game yet. He graded out with a 79.1 pass blocking grade (really good), and a 65.6 grade in run blocking, which is considered above average.

https://nypost.com/2018/09/21/robby-anderson-is-being-noticed-for-all-the-wrong-reasons/

...DE Leonard Williams played 84 percent of the defensive snaps in Thursday’s 21-17 loss and did not record a stat — not a tackle, sack, quarterback hit, nothing. 

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So i go to a sports bar Thursday night.  A browns fan living in denver for 25 yrs, w my Quinn #10 jersey to remind me about the factory of sadness.  It's mid 2nd qtr,  and a jets fan approaches my table.  

@ that point we were down 14, and he was ready to talk some smack.  Btw, dressed in a nice nfl jets ensamble including not only hat and shirt, but he went all in and got the logo shorts,  and wait for it...

Jets shoes.  I didnt ask re the socks or undergarments.

Flash forward to baker catching the 2pt, etc.

It's been a long time since any browns fan felt satisfied after a game.  Enjoy.

In Dorsey we trust.

 

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41 minutes ago, thecardiackid said:

So i go to a sports bar Thursday night.  A browns fan living in denver for 25 yrs, w my Quinn #10 jersey to remind me about the factory of sadness.  It's mid 2nd qtr,  and a jets fan approaches my table.  

@ that point we were down 14, and he was ready to talk some smack.  Btw, dressed in a nice nfl jets ensamble including not only hat and shirt, but he went all in and got the logo shorts,  and wait for it...

Jets shoes.  I didnt ask re the socks or undergarments.

Flash forward to baker catching the 2pt, etc.

It's been a long time since any browns fan felt satisfied after a game.  Enjoy.

In Dorsey we trust.

 

Kudos to you rocking the Brady Quinn gear, strong statement.

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59 minutes ago, thecardiackid said:

So i go to a sports bar Thursday night.  A browns fan living in denver for 25 yrs, w my Quinn #10 jersey to remind me about the factory of sadness.  It's mid 2nd qtr,  and a jets fan approaches my table.  

@ that point we were down 14, and he was ready to talk some smack.  Btw, dressed in a nice nfl jets ensamble including not only hat and shirt, but he went all in and got the logo shorts,  and wait for it...

Jets shoes.  I didnt ask re the socks or undergarments.

Flash forward to baker catching the 2pt, etc.

It's been a long time since any browns fan felt satisfied after a game.  Enjoy.

In Dorsey we trust.

 

Denver Mile High Browns Backers 

https://fans.clevelandbrowns.com/backer-tracker/clubs

That still in operation?

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1 hour ago, thecardiackid said:

So i go to a sports bar Thursday night.  A browns fan living in denver for 25 yrs, w my Quinn #10 jersey to remind me about the factory of sadness.  It's mid 2nd qtr,  and a jets fan approaches my table.  

@ that point we were down 14, and he was ready to talk some smack.  Btw, dressed in a nice nfl jets ensamble including not only hat and shirt, but he went all in and got the logo shorts,  and wait for it...

Jets shoes.  I didnt ask re the socks or undergarments.

Flash forward to baker catching the 2pt, etc.

It's been a long time since any browns fan felt satisfied after a game.  Enjoy.

In Dorsey we trust.

 

let’s see a couple more games. 

if it goes well i’ll spot you a Mayfield jersey.

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On 9/22/2018 at 2:03 PM, Conan Troutman said:

I was really disappointed when Ted Thomspon retired and Dorsey had just signed with the Browns weeks ago. He's probably the best talent evaluator in the league. If he can find the right coach (and Haslam doesn't **** it up somehow), he's going to bring a Lombardi to Cleveland.

Easy, brah

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On 9/22/2018 at 10:12 PM, Bracie Smathers said:

Desmond Harrison, LT, 68.8 : Rookie Desmond Harrison had his best game yet. He graded out with a 79.1 pass blocking grade (really good), and a 65.6 grade in run blocking, which is considered above average.

...DE Leonard Williams played 84 percent of the defensive snaps in Thursday’s 21-17 loss and did not record a stat — not a tackle, sack, quarterback hit, nothing. 

Where would Desmond Harrison had been drafted if not for the off-the-field issues?

Quote

 

 While Desmond Harrison was an undrafted free agent, can you put a draft grade on him from a talent perspective had he not had some of his missteps?  

...one longtime NFL scout who had a first-round grade on Harrison from a talent standpoint. His Texas offensive line coach  back in 2013, Stacy Searels, told me that Harrison was a top five pick  without the off-the-field issues, and former Texas coach Mack Brown told  me he was the most athletic linemen he had ever seen. Harrison is raw  and inexperienced but an absolute steal if he lives up to the hype. 

 

This isn't just MKC hype, lots of people had Harrison as a top talent from this class.

Scouting Notebook: Who Are the Biggest Early 2018 NFL Draft Sleepers?

Quote

 

JANUARY 12, 2018

Desmond Harrison, OT, West Georgia

After transferring to Texas from Contra Costa Community College (California) in 2013, Desmond Harrison was one of a handful of players dismissed from the team by former head coach Charlie Strong. He landed on his feet at West Georgia, and his tape there has been impressive against small-time talent. Harrison will be at the Senior Bowl and has a chance to build on the hype surrounding his athleticism at left tackle.

 

Desmond Harrison is quickly catching on and 'appears' to have the talent of a top-five pick which is an 'absolute steal'.  

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1 hour ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Desmond Harrison is quickly catching on and 'appears' to have the talent of a top-five pick which is an 'absolute steal'.  

This would be YUUUGE! if they keep this kid focused and on point. I had my doubts about the move because ya know, Browns and stuff, but it's looking like a solid move so far.

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Congratulations for having a better record than the Patriots at the conclusion of a day's play for the first time since....

Kickoff on November 3, 2002.  Browns were 4-4 at the time of kickoff that day.  Patriots were 3-4.

-QG

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12 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Season 1, Episode 13: Placement, Velocity, and Aggressiveness from Baker Mayfield in his NFL Debut

Browns Film Breakdown

Published on Sep 25, 2018

PFF's Brendan Leister joins me as we highlight what exactly Baker Mayfield did well in his NFL debut performance in the Browns 21-17 win over the Jets in Week 3.:thumbup:

Love that site

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20 hours ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Season 1, Episode 13: Placement, Velocity, and Aggressiveness from Baker Mayfield in his NFL Debut

Browns Film Breakdown

Published on Sep 25, 2018

PFF's Brendan Leister joins me as we highlight what exactly Baker Mayfield did well in his NFL debut performance in the Browns 21-17 win over the Jets in Week 3.:thumbup:

As I watched, I noticed how aggressive he was.  While there were other options available on the first 3, he (successfully) fired into tight windows right away.  I'll be interested in seeing how this plays out. 

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On 9/14/2018 at 0:35 PM, MAC_32 said:

Highly penalized teams are a function of their coaches.  If they're not disciplined then their players won't be either.

Browns now in bottom third of penalties against.

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i can’t wait to see how Mayfield looks with a week of practice with the 1s getting their timing down. and a game plan.  

should really show us what he can do.  

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20 minutes ago, amnesiac said:

i can’t wait to see how Mayfield looks with a week of practice with the 1s getting their timing down. and a game plan.  

should really show us what he can do.  

My expectations are currently way too high.  I'm looking at prior years and cannot find one instance I was so excited for a game.  Only ones that are even close since 2007 are those Thursday's with Hoyer in 13 and 14, but this is on a completely different level.

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13 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

My expectations are currently way too high.  I'm looking at prior years and cannot find one instance I was so excited for a game.  Only ones that are even close since 2007 are those Thursday's with Hoyer in 13 and 14, but this is on a completely different level.

Same here, can't wait to see what they do this weekend. New Browns, new attitude, lets leave Oakland making them mumble about their coach rather than the other way around :football:

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44 minutes ago, daveR said:

Browns now in bottom third of penalties against.

Unfortunately we are ranked dead last in special teams.

2018 SPECIAL TEAMS RATINGS

  • 32 CLE - 14.2%

----------------------------

That has gotta get cleaned up.

Also, its great to feel confident but don't start making playoff plans just yet.

Our chances to land a wild card playoff spot are currently under 9% and less than 8% to take the division. 

PLAYOFF ODDS REPORT

Revised as of 09/25/18, through Week 3.

CLE 1-1-1

WC - 8.8%

------------------------------------

This season is tough to predict.

The Raiders are going to be spoiling for their first win. 

Chuckie is going to have a few surprises for the rookie.

I can't wait to see how Mayfield responds because the doubters are saying he had the advantage against the Jets because they didn't prepare for him.

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I said it to my wife sometime during the Pittsburgh game - we're going to lose a game this year because of special teams.  And I wasn't referring to the kicking game, which obviously spiraled out of control.  Our coverage/punt units are terrible.  Then Chubb had that olay against the Jets.

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i’m not delusional enough to talk about playoffs.  this team has zero depth. 

but we will win a few games, and watching Mayfield grow and learn will be fun.  

i’m legitimately excited after going back and watching his highlights from the Jets game.  

i’ve said all along 6 wins was about right for this team, i may bump that to 6-8 wins.

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Tyrod Taylor was just dropped in my idp 53 man roster league.  

:lmao:

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More miscommunication among coaches, or does Haley simply not give a flying rats ### about Hue's lies and backing them up in the media?  :oldunsure:

Quote

After the Game Hue said this, that the Browns didn't steal the Philly Special 2 point conversion, "it was in the playbook for years and just not called......" 
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/09/cleveland-browns-baker-mayfield-philly-special-eagles-video

Today: 
"Absolutely. I have no shame" - Todd Haley not afraid to say he stole the Philly special for the 2-point conversion

https://twitter.com/RuiterWrongFAN/status/1045375980230103040

 

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1 minute ago, Peak said:

More miscommunication among coaches, or does Haley simply not give a flying rats ### about Hue's lies and backing them up in the media?  :oldunsure:

 

I think Hue just makes #### up then doesn't tell anyone.  I think Haley has his faults, but he'll also just tell it like it is.  Which unintentionally makes Hue looks bad because he constantly just makes #### up.

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can’t both statements be true?

it may have been in the playbook, but the decision to actually use it was influenced by seeing the play work in the Super Bowl.  

:shrug:

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16 hours ago, Bracie Smathers said:

If you thought you could not get any more excited about Baker Mayfield... 

Check out this film breakdown.:popcorn:

======================

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBthsykFvb0

Sweet! I'm in. Baker starting in one league (FitzMagic out - Baker Mania in), Hyde and Browns D in another. I can't believe I'm gonna start the Browns D again this week - on the road. I think the whole enthusiasm spreads to all players, all Cleveland fans, and now practically everyone else. I'm rooting for the Browns and I'm a Lions fan - lol. 

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Not even a quarter way through the season but it looks like our top-two rookies are doing well, err according to PFF rookie rankings.

Go to the link to see the full list.

2018 NFL rookie rankings through Week 3

Quote

 

2. DENZEL WARD, CB, CLEVELAND BROWNS

PFF Overall Grade: 81.9

 

Also our defense is getting Ogbah back this week and he's chomping at the bit to get in on the sack action.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Emmanuel Ogbah says he's back this week for the Browns

... Ogbah missed the last two games with an ankle injury...

... he's had to sit and watch while teammates Myles Garrett and Larry Ogunjobi have combined for seven sacks. Garrett is tied for the league lead with four sacks and Ogunjobi is tied for sixth with three.

"I told them I'm coming for them," Ogbah said. "I'm coming for them."

-----------------------------------------------------------

He is coming back from an ankle injury so he may be on a pitch count but this defense can be really good.

----------------------------------------------------------

Brent Sobleski‏ @brentsobleski 2h2 hours ago

"[Baker] Mayfield is the big story, but watch that defense. It might be the third- or fourth-best in football. Maybe higher" -- an anonymous coach told B/R's @mikefreemanNFL.

 

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Baker had two INTs but neither i really fault him for.  The first was one of Callaways handful of drops.  The second was trying to get the ball downfield with almost no time left giving his WR a chance to make a huge play or get a penalty.  They were still 20 yards from FG range and probably didnt have time for two more plays.  

Its too bad that 26 year old Lynch showed up today.

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Been a while since we could blame the refs but that 4th down call was clearly on them, we had and the game won. Mayfield looks like he’s been in the league for 5 years. Not sure what happened to our defense today, didn’t look like the one we’ve seen the last 3 games.

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Handful of bad calls by the refs on both sides of the game yesterday.  That bad reversal on the phantom first down makes no sense, as does the Carr fumble/non-fumble.  Either one of those would get the Browns a W yesterday.  With that said, this team had many chances to put this game away and they didn't do it.  It's a crappy way to lose, but it was still an exciting game to watch.  The ST coach needs to go...ST is horrible!  

Baker looked good -  a few mistakes, but those are learning moments.

WRs need to catch a ball.  There were easily 7-9 drops yesterday.  Ridiculous.  

Peppers shouldn't be returning kicks.  He just isn't the guy for the job.  Neither is Calloway.

Mitchell is a big lose in that secondary.  

Chubb looked really good.  Hyde did as well, but there is a big difference between the two.  Could almost see Hyde as the guy to pound the short yardage, while Chubb comes back in as the every down RB.

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The bad Lynch call sort of negates the horribleness of the Carr in the grasp call.  But that reversal was an all timer.  People who made that decision should be looked at very closely.  I'm also going for it on 4th down in that situation, the defense looked worn down, but disagreeing with Hue is nothing new.  Lots to like about the game overall though.

 

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I thought the officials were very fair in the Browns/Raiders game. They were equally bad both ways, including the softest roughing the passer call I've seen on Mayfield. I've had handshakes rougher than that.

The Browns are a super talented team, but they still have the league's worst coaching staff. With even decent coaching this team is 4-0 right now. 

Hyde is having a solid season, but man I'd like to see Chubb get more work, and Duke too, have to think Chubb will after topping 100 yards on 3 carries.

 

Edited by travdogg
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Went back to take another look at Mayfield's first game.

The turnovers.

  • First INT Callaway slipped and then tipped the ball to the defender.  Baker was seen consoling 'Kid' Callaway on the sidelines.
  • First fumble was clearly on Baker.  He did not feel pressure from the side/take a  deep enough drop and lifted his elbow right into Hurst.
  • Second fumble was on Baker.  He was audibling on the road in a loud stadium and his center was going on a timed snap and Baker was not ready.
  • Second INT with 7 seconds left basically was a punt/hail Mary but it was a poor choice to throw deep IMHO.  We only needed 15 yards for a shot at a game winning FG with one timeout left.  They were leaving the middle of the field open.  No need to go deep to the sidelines into double coverage with a deep safety.  Low percentage play/throw.

We also attempted a deep throw to the endzone on a low percent throw earlier in the game, not sure if that was Haley or Baker.

I can't really find fault with 42 points which were the most scored by the Browns in 11 years and we got that in Baker's first start.  Haley's aggressive playcalling got us back in the game but he really needs to learn game management.  We were up 28 to 14 and he was throwing which lead to the first fumble and he should have put the handcuffs on Baker's audibles and told him to go with a quick count run play instead of leaving a rookie the freedom to audible to a pass play when he should have been bleeding the clock.  

But we did score 42 and that should have been MORE than enough with this defense.  The injury that knocked out Terrence Mitchell and forced us to go with T.J. Carrie killed us.  

Edited by Bracie Smathers

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18 minutes ago, Bobcat10 said:

The bad Lynch call sort of negates the horribleness of the Carr in the grasp call.  But that reversal was an all timer.  People who made that decision should be looked at very closely.  I'm also going for it on 4th down in that situation, the defense looked worn down, but disagreeing with Hue is nothing new.  Lots to like about the game overall though.

 

People keep referencing the Lynch play, but everyone on the D stopped at the whistle.  He would been tackled after a few more yards.  He was not scoring there.  

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The sack on Carr with the in the grass was just so, so bad.  Even in slow motion the ball came out immediately.  

I do feel like we had the game taken from us.  We played better than they did.  

But, we also screwed up a lot and the D wasnt very good.

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45 minutes ago, Bobcat10 said:

The bad Lynch call sort of negates the horribleness of the Carr in the grasp call.  But that reversal was an all timer.  People who made that decision should be looked at very closely.  I'm also going for it on 4th down in that situation, the defense looked worn down, but disagreeing with Hue is nothing new.  Lots to like about the game overall though.

 

Completely agree.  I thought it was a given, if you are in 4th and inches, you push the pile with the QB sneak and keep moving forward.  There was no aggressiveness on Hue's part with the choice to punt.  You had many opportunities to win/close out the game, and this was the easiest call of all of them.  Baker under center, stay low and push right behind the center for the 1st down.  Ridiculous that Hue felt it wouldn't work and he needed to punt.  :no:

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43 minutes ago, Peak said:

Completely agree.  I thought it was a given, if you are in 4th and inches, you push the pile with the QB sneak and keep moving forward.  There was no aggressiveness on Hue's part with the choice to punt.  You had many opportunities to win/close out the game, and this was the easiest call of all of them.  Baker under center, stay low and push right behind the center for the 1st down.  Ridiculous that Hue felt it wouldn't work and he needed to punt.  :no:

I see people saying this, but how often do NFL coaches do something that risky when you're up 8 points? Belichick did it in a 2009 game against the Colts in similar circumstances and it backfired. I believe Mike Smith did it in a 2011 game and it backfired too. Special teams needs to get at least average play on the ensuing punt and not let the guy get to midfield. 

As iffy as Hue is, I don't think he lost us this game. 

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Another takeaway from that game - The honeymoon phase for our 'vaunted' receiver group is done. Njoku and Callaway are both clearly talented, but there's a big dropoff after Landry in terms of reliability/production. I think I've seen enough of Peppers too and am thinking Dorsey looks for safety help to replace him in the offseason. 

Edited by franchise punter
Quote marks

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Cool  vid.

Fusion Dance Darren Fells and David Njoku

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NFL Films‏Verified account @NFLFilms FollowFollow @NFLFilms

Practice makes perfect! @DarrenFells and @David_Njoku80 have been practicing the Fusion Dance since training camp! #HardKnocks | @Browns

10:14 AM - 1 Oct 2018

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1 hour ago, franchise punter said:

I see people saying this, but how often do NFL coaches do something that risky when you're up 8 points? Belichick did it in a 2009 game against the Colts in similar circumstances and it backfired. I believe Mike Smith did it in a 2011 game and it backfired too. Special teams needs to get at least average play on the ensuing punt and not let the guy get to midfield. 

As iffy as Hue is, I don't think he lost us this game. 

I don't think Hue lost us this game, but I think he is one symptom to a larger issue.  The team lost the battle of the turnovers, had to fight a couple of bad calls (which have reported ad nauseum today in the media), poor Special Teams play, as well as dropped passes.  There are many things you can point to and say, "Ya know what...you fix that area, and maybe they win yesterday."

In regards to going for it on 4th down, statistically, it has been on the rise since 2005.  Per the research from Chase Stuart, "From 1994–2004, teams went for it on these fourth-and-1 situations 28 percent of the time. From 2005–2014, that number ratcheted up, with teams going for it 35 percent of the time. And in 2015 and 2016, offenses stayed on the field for these fourth downs more than 40 percent."

There are conditions which coaches look at to determine if going for it on 4th and short, one of which is "the game needed to be competitive, defined as within 10 points, to ensure the scoreboard wasn’t the primary factor dictating those decisions".

The situation seen yesterday, falls exactly within that range.  To take it a step further, the Browns are tied for 6th in the NFL this year in 4th down Conversion attempts, and hitting on 50% of those attempts, with a solid 67% completion in road games this year. 

This situation was literally an inch (maybe two if you're in the NFL offices watching the replays).  A QB sneak would've easily gotten the first down.  And before I hear that QB sneaks never work, Yale did a study and found that the QB Sneak has an 83% conversion success rate since 1999.  It was an easy call.  Baker under center.  Give the center a heartbeat to push forward and then Baker follows and hits the ground right behind the center for a quick 4 inch pickup.  Given CLE's success rate on the road, as well as the high likelihood of successfully completing a QB sneak for short yardage on 4th down - why not try it?  It was a competitive game (within 10 pts), and if you convert you chances for winning the game go up to nearly 98-99%.  

The only reason not to go for it is due to a fear of criticism causing the HC to still punt in this situation.  Hue could've put this game to bed and took a step towards showing he's the right coach to lead this young team.  How better to show you have faith in your QB and young team, than to keep them on the field and say "I believe in you guys!  Now go get this first down!"  Instead, Hue basically told his team, "Yes I know it's only a couple of inches, but I don't see you guys getting it.  Guess we'll punt."  To me, that was a true leadership opportunity, and he missed his chance.  For a team who has not won more than 2 games in 3 seasons, there is no room to be conservative.  You have a team with a rookie QB who has put over 30pts on the board, on the road, on his first start - confidence is high and they are feeling a win streak on the horizon.  Why shoot that down?  Even if you didn't get it, you show your team that you believe in them and that you're all in this together.  It was a character defining moment for Hue, and he missed it.  

 

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:thumbup:  @Peak

What about this for the "why not try it" part......has Baker ever run a QB sneak from under center?  I'm not excusing anyone for not getting him ramped up on what seems like an elementary play, but this has to be considered and I have no idea if it was touched on post game in any interviews.

That said, never running the play worked out great for the Cleveland Special during the Jets game.

Also, regarding Hue and his apparent lack of confidence in the offense, couldn't he have done what you say for the defense in that situation, which is supposed to be his strongest unit?

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imo, your defense shouldn’t give up 8 points like that.  

i can’t fault Hue for that particular decision.  

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Mayfield with two fumbles and two batted down passes. 

i’ll be very interested to see if they can get that cleaned up asap.  

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27 minutes ago, Bobcat10 said:

Also, regarding Hue and his apparent lack of confidence in the offense, couldn't he have done what you say for the defense in that situation, which is supposed to be his strongest unit?

Definitely.  The only sticking point is that ST would take the field before the defense, and that particular unit was a sieve yesterday.  ST couldn't tackle anyone, which put the defense on their heels in their own territory.  I would've tried for the first down if only to keep ST off the field.  :X

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