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Cleveland Browns (5 Viewers)

If Saunders can keep the coordinators in line then that’s an option.
I could be wrong, but I see Saunders as an extension of Hue - being his "mentor" and all.  I think I'd rather rip the band-aid off and let the coordinators run.  Use Haley as HC, Kitchens as OC, and Williams as DC.  Let's see how the season ends.  It can't be any worse than what we have now.  It might light a spark, which Haley's attitude could keep stoked through the last half of the year.

 
Ok, I'm impatient. 
Probably best to stop right here - good teams are built in the offseason then execute their plan in-season, managing issues as they come up.  You can't expect to play catch-up in the middle of the season playing musical chairs at more important positions then expect to win.  Only one move makes sense on this team from a personnel perspective - one that may benefit the 2019 version, which requires patience.  If that criteria is not met then the trade does not make any sense for this team right now.  You can go through the if-then tree once that criteria is met though.

I don't think it's what @amnesiac was getting at, but this thing shouldn't be built strictly through the draft either.  The foundation?  Yep, as it has been - but keep sprinkle in trades and free agents where it makes sense too.  I'm sure WR will be a priority this offseason, but instead of trading a 5 for a will be 30 year old Sanu next year (yes I know it was just an example, @Peak) maybe target a 27 year old Tyrell Williams in free agency.  Pay an extra few bucks and save the pick on a guy that's a better fit on this roster and still in his prime age.

 
We opened  the season against Pittsburgh on September 9.

By October 19 the Steelers had the same starting QB, RB, and WR but we went from

  • Starting QB Tyrod Taylor to rookie QB Baker Mayfield
  • Starting RB Carlos Hyde to rookie RB Nick Chubb
  • Starting WR Josh Gordon to rookie WR Antonio Callaway
Even with the bumps expected with starting a rookie QB Mayfield is an improvement.

Even though Chubb can't do anything in the passing game yet he's an improvement over Hyde.

Obviously Callaway is not an improvement over JG.

Amazing how much the team has changed to this point.  

AFIC the rest of the season is all about developing Baker and keeping him healthy.

 
Guess the public outcry and complainging is starting to pay off.  A few weeks late, but at least the NFL is recognizing and reacting.  Need to see more of this, especially with Shawn Hochuli and his overturning of the Helmet to Helmet rule in the TB game.

http://www.footballzebras.com/2018/10/nfl-fires-down-judge-hugo-cruz/

In a stunning move, the NFL has fired down judge Hugo Cruz, number 94, effective immediately, which has been confirmed by 7 sources who have firsthand knowledge of the situation.

This is the first time in the Super Bowl era that the NFL has fired an official in the middle of the regular season. Previously, the NFL has suspended officials for major mistakes and, if warranted, dropped the official in the offseason. Others had their fate sealed early in the season, but completed the rest of the year, as had happened to a rookie official who fell asleep during a preseason clinic. (He never saw a second season.)

The NFL Referees Association has not responded to our requests for comment, and an NFL spokesman declined to comment.

One of the sources confirmed that Cruz was not “maintaining a very high level of performance over a sustained period,” while another told Football Zebras in March that Cruz’s future with the league was already in jeopardy. This is partially borne out by his lack of postseason assignments for the two seasons he would have qualified for, not counting assignment as an alternate last season. Another oddity that our sources could not find a reason for was that Cruz was assigned to a different crew for 3 of the 6 regular season games he has worked this year. He was assigned to Brad Allen’s crew in Week 6 when a crucial missed false start call should have nullified a Chargers touchdown (or, more accurately, the play would have been shut down long before that).

Even though the miscall was very significant, no call on its own would prompt a firing. Basic human resources training would tell you that there is a document trail of transgressions that will make the case. It is, apparently, the last straw for senior vice president of officiating Al Riveron. Cruz was off last week, so the Week 6 Chargers-Browns game was his last.

.........................

We began this season saying that Riveron needed a good season for job security. Unless the decision came from his superiors, Riveron is sending a clear message to the staff by taking such an unprecedented step and not waiting until the end of the season. 
Riveron needs to send more messages like this one.  I wonder if he'll meet with the ref who missed the other blatant false start vs the Browns the following week?  Or Hochuli for last week's blown call, which Riveron has already publicly stated was wrong.

The timing also couldn't have been any better, as Hugo was lined up to work with Cheffers' crew who is assigned the CLE@PIT game this Sunday. 

 
MAC_32 said:
Probably best to stop right here - good teams are built in the offseason then execute their plan in-season, managing issues as they come up.  You can't expect to play catch-up in the middle of the season playing musical chairs at more important positions then expect to win.  Only one move makes sense on this team from a personnel perspective - one that may benefit the 2019 version, which requires patience.  If that criteria is not met then the trade does not make any sense for this team right now.  You can go through the if-then tree once that criteria is met though.

I don't think it's what @amnesiac was getting at, but this thing shouldn't be built strictly through the draft either.  The foundation?  Yep, as it has been - but keep sprinkle in trades and free agents where it makes sense too.  I'm sure WR will be a priority this offseason, but instead of trading a 5 for a will be 30 year old Sanu next year (yes I know it was just an example, @Peak) maybe target a 27 year old Tyrell Williams in free agency.  Pay an extra few bucks and save the pick on a guy that's a better fit on this roster and still in his prime age.
well put. 

 
Peak said:
I could be wrong, but I see Saunders as an extension of Hue - being his "mentor" and all.  I think I'd rather rip the band-aid off and let the coordinators run.  Use Haley as HC, Kitchens as OC, and Williams as DC.  Let's see how the season ends.  It can't be any worse than what we have now.  It might light a spark, which Haley's attitude could keep stoked through the last half of the year.
:shrug:

To me, even though it's technically being promoted, that feels like a demotion for Haley.  I'd like to see him get the full season calling plays to see where he can take the offense, he's earned it IMO.  Or is he calling plays on gameday in your scenario?

I don't have anything significant to base my Saunders mention on.  I'm making an assumption that his wealth of football experience put him in a fine position to make gameday calls at least equal to, and likely better than, Huey.  No idea how he handles big egos or if he can handle weekday HC duties, press conferences, locker room morale, etc. 

 
Dorsey's draft keeps getting rave reviews based on performance.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Baker Mayfield wins NFL Rookie of the Week for a second time

Cleveland Browns quarterback Baker Mayfield has been named the NFL's Pepsi Rookie of the Week for Week 7.

The No. 1 overall selection completed 23-of-34 passes for 215 yards and two touchdowns in a 26-23 overtime loss to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. He also had four carries for 43 yards.

The Oklahoma product assumed the quarterback role in Week 3 against the New York Jets. He has completed 108-of-187 passes (57.8-percent) for 1,291 yards, six touchdowns and five interceptions as well as 14 carries for 82 yards.

Cleveland's rookies have won five of the seven Rookie of the Week votes this season. Cornerback Denzel Ward won the honor twice. It is the second victory of Mayfield as well. Running back Nick Chubb won for his efforts against the Oakland Raiders....
Hayden Grove‏Verified account @H_Grove 20h20 hours ago

NFL Rookie of the Week winners: 

  • Week 1: Denzel Ward - CLE
  • Week 2: Darius Leonard - IND
  • Week 3: Baker Mayfield - CLE
  • Week 4: Nick Chubb - CLE
  • Week 5: Denzel Ward - CLE
  • Week 6: Saquon Barkley - NYG
  • Week 7: Baker Mayfield - CLE
Unbelievable.

 
Cleveland's rookies have won five of the seven Rookie of the Week votes this season. Cornerback Denzel Ward won the honor twice. It is the second victory of Mayfield as well. Running back Nick Chubb won for his efforts against the Oakland Raiders....
Part of me wonders if the insurgence of Oklahoma Borwns fans are helping with the voting. Not complaining. Love the fact that this team is starting to get positive feedback in the news instead of the negatives, or just being invisible. 

This draft class is definitely a breath if fresh air and a great start of things to come.

 
Video of the bad calls against the Browns.

questionable calls

SportsTime Ohio‏Verified account @SportsTimeOhio  FollowFollow @SportsTimeOhio

C'mon! Week-after-week, the #Browns are ending up on the wrong side of questionable calls - and that trend is not going unnoticed.

Underscore: Give the Browns a break

------------------------------------------------------------

NFL takes unprecedented step to fire ref who missed a blatant false start on a touchdown

...Cruz had joined the NFL in 2015. His firing is effective immediately, leaving an open spot on Carl Cheffers’ crew.
McNeil‏Verified account @Reflog_18 Oct 25

Dear @NFLOfficiating, Either stop screwing us over or we will get you fired. Sincerely, Browns Fans

 
Looking forward to what Dealin' John Dorsey has in play for next week. Maybe a CB or WR, even a solid, dependalbe, reliable K would be nice.  And maybe a new HC.  I feel like Xmas is coming early! 

 
At 2-4-1 it be kinda stupid to deal for "win now" type players.

Guessing we dont make any moves unless we are dealing away a vet who isnt in the future plans.
Not looking for one hit wonders for a playoff push, but some building blocks.  Good players who are under contract for a couple more years. We need a wr and a CB. Theres no denying that...and next year's draft isn't big in WRs or CBs.  If there is someone we can get now that will help, I'm all for it.  We have the means, so let's find the people.

 
Not looking for one hit wonders for a playoff push, but some building blocks.  Good players who are under contract for a couple more years. We need a wr and a CB. Theres no denying that...and next year's draft isn't big in WRs or CBs.  If there is someone we can get now that will help, I'm all for it.  We have the means, so let's find the people.
I think next year's wr class is a lot like this one - a lot of guys but possibly no stars. That's not a bad thing. 

Cb is always weak. Because demand is always > supply, which is what makes trading for one difficult. The good ones cost too much and you dont want to give picks for mediocre ones. Of which most are. 

 
First let me say I have been against Hue since last year and won;'t belabor that point but Haley has sucked this year so lets not make him out as some sort of saint.  Haley has the 22nd ranked offense based on yards and the 30th ranked offense based on DVOA.  He's gotten a ton of help from the defense that he given him a league high 20 turnovers.  That is more than any recent team has gotten in a year.

He's far from doing his job.  He chokes playcalling in the clutch.  Last week the Bucs are without their starting Pro Bowl DT Gerald McCoy and their starting DE Vinnie Curry and then during the game they lose their starting Pro Bowl MLB and team captian Kwon Alexander and his rookie replacement and Nick Chubb busts off his three longest runs and becomes a legit weapon and we get to OT after the defense creates turnovers.

What does Haley do?

Given a fresh clock and with that huge advantage in OT Haley passed on first down and only ran Nick Chubb ONE F'CKING TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How the hell do you defend Haley as though he's not part of the problem?

Early in the game when the rushing attack kept getting stuffed He ran Chubb into stacked boxes and tried to cross them up by constantly putting him in the the passing except their is a problem with that strategy, Nick Chubb has NEVER CAUGHT AN NFL PASS and is terrible in pass-pro whereas Duke Johnson caught 74 passes last year and was averaging over 10 yards a touch yet he keeps ignoring him and it is costing us drives, yards, scores.

Haley hasn't been using the players correctly and I think that is why Dorsey had to trade Hyde just to get Chubb on the field but now it seems like Haley is trying to show up Dorsey by misusing Chubb in the passing game to show how mad he is at Dorsey for getting rid of Hyde.

 
First let me say I have been against Hue since last year and won;'t belabor that point but Haley has sucked this year so lets not make him out as some sort of saint.  Haley has the 22nd ranked offense based on yards and the 30th ranked offense based on DVOA.  He's gotten a ton of help from the defense that he given him a league high 20 turnovers.  That is more than any recent team has gotten in a year.

He's far from doing his job.  He chokes playcalling in the clutch.  Last week the Bucs are without their starting Pro Bowl DT Gerald McCoy and their starting DE Vinnie Curry and then during the game they lose their starting Pro Bowl MLB and team captian Kwon Alexander and his rookie replacement and Nick Chubb busts off his three longest runs and becomes a legit weapon and we get to OT after the defense creates turnovers.

What does Haley do?

Given a fresh clock and with that huge advantage in OT Haley passed on first down and only ran Nick Chubb ONE F'CKING TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How the hell do you defend Haley as though he's not part of the problem?

Early in the game when the rushing attack kept getting stuffed He ran Chubb into stacked boxes and tried to cross them up by constantly putting him in the the passing except their is a problem with that strategy, Nick Chubb has NEVER CAUGHT AN NFL PASS and is terrible in pass-pro whereas Duke Johnson caught 74 passes last year and was averaging over 10 yards a touch yet he keeps ignoring him and it is costing us drives, yards, scores.

Haley hasn't been using the players correctly and I think that is why Dorsey had to trade Hyde just to get Chubb on the field but now it seems like Haley is trying to show up Dorsey by misusing Chubb in the passing game to show how mad he is at Dorsey for getting rid of Hyde.
So you would advocate firing Haley before firing Hue?

 
You don't fire anyone until the BYE if then.  It won't serve any constructive long-term purpose.  Short term satisfaction at a cost of long term stability is f'ckng stupid but all of this sht about Haley being great is absurd.
I didnt realize people were talking about Haley being great.  

Hue is a total dunce.  Firing him right now would have no negative long term effect.  None.  Period.  He is a cancer

 
I didnt realize people were talking about Haley being great.  

Hue is a total dunce.  Firing him right now would have no negative long term effect.  None.  Period.  He is a cancer
No you're right.  Absolutely nothing negative in the long term and it really shows how stable the org is.  THAT sort of stability is really going to help us going into the off season when we've got Dorsey and a full salary cap check book and he's trying to entice quality free agents without having to egregiously overpay them.  I bet it will make the best HC candidates happy to see as well.  Yep, nothing bad could possibly come from firing a HC midseason.  

 
No you're right.  Absolutely nothing negative in the long term and it really shows how stable the org is.  THAT sort of stability is really going to help us going into the off season when we've got Dorsey and a full salary cap check book and he's trying to entice quality free agents without having to egregiously overpay them.  I bet it will make the best HC candidates happy to see as well.  Yep, nothing bad could possibly come from firing a HC midseason.  
WHat looks worse, firing a guy midseason, or letting a guy just keep losing and losing and losing and losing and losing...........and throwing everyone else under the bus......then losing and losing and losing...........................

It already looks appealing to futrure head coaches.  "Shoot, you mean I can go 1-31 and keep my job with a chance at year 3???  I'm in!!!!!"

 
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I actually agree with Hue about Haley more than you hate Hue and I MEAN IT.

Haley is up by 14 points against Oakland and he does what?  Runs it and controls the clock?  Nope, has his rookie QB pass to his rookie deep threat WR and it leads to two-consecutive turnovers and we get OT and he still won't run the ball.  He cost us that game and last week's game against the Bucs when he got a gift playing the 31st ranked defense riddled with injury and they lost the entire middle of the defense giving him a PERFECT opportunity to run Nick Chubb who runs best between the tackles.   I'm livid with Haley.  WTfreak is his malfunction??????  You answer that before you keep throwing this hate Hue sht again and again.  We'd be 4-2-1 and today's game would mean something if Haley did his job.  

 
to be fair, we don’t know how much of the play calling is Haley and how much is Hue. 

some of what he is doing might be through a filter   

 
amnesiac said:
to be fair, we don’t know how much of the play calling is Haley and how much is Hue. 

some of what he is doing might be through a filter   
This is my thought as well. You have a HC who used to be a OC and another OC...both hard headed nincompoops. How do you know who's calling what and when?  I can't get behind Hue staying. I can't. I also know that Haley isn't the long term solution and gone by year's end as well.  But Haley may be 2-4-1.  Hue is 3-35-1.  Get rid of the guy who has been failing at his job for the longest time. Fire the guy who has thrown more coordinators under the bus than he has wins. Fire the guy who has lost this team. 

 
  • Smile
Reactions: DAG
Bracie Smathers said:
I actually agree with Hue about Haley more than you hate Hue and I MEAN IT.

Haley is up by 14 points against Oakland and he does what?  Runs it and controls the clock?  Nope, has his rookie QB pass to his rookie deep threat WR and it leads to two-consecutive turnovers and we get OT and he still won't run the ball.  He cost us that game and last week's game against the Bucs when he got a gift playing the 31st ranked defense riddled with injury and they lost the entire middle of the defense giving him a PERFECT opportunity to run Nick Chubb who runs best between the tackles.   I'm livid with Haley.  WTfreak is his malfunction??????  You answer that before you keep throwing this hate Hue sht again and again.  We'd be 4-2-1 and today's game would mean something if Haley did his job.  
So fire them both.  Just make sure Hue is fired first.

 
Team totally quit today on both sides of the ball.  Fire Hue today.  See how it goes, fire Haley if they keep sucking on offense.  Then fire Williams if they keep sucking on defense.  

Bernie Kosar should have a lifetime gig of running the team during the latter part of the season if coaches get fired.

 
Duke Johnson before Haley arrived: 61, 53, 74 catches out of backfield. With the moron as OC, 18, halfway thru the season. No threat of the RBs catching passes out of the backfield because the idiot can't figure out how that takes off the pressure of blitzes. My guess is that in PITT, Ben overruled his stupid play calling numerous times and dumped it to Bell. They were arguing on the sidelines numerous times.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
No you're right.  Absolutely nothing negative in the long term and it really shows how stable the org is.  THAT sort of stability is really going to help us going into the off season when we've got Dorsey and a full salary cap check book and he's trying to entice quality free agents without having to egregiously overpay them.  I bet it will make the best HC candidates happy to see as well.  Yep, nothing bad could possibly come from firing a HC midseason.  
Your solution to cancer removal is to let the patient die.

 
amnesiac said:
to be fair, we don’t know how much of the play calling is Haley and how much is Hue. 

some of what he is doing might be through a filter   
...and what we are seeing is exactly what Haley warned of in August - a team plays how they practice.  What he was seeing in practice (sloppy, undisciplined, unprepared, etc.) predictably carried over to the games.  

Haley has at least some blame for all the problems on offense.  I'm not going to even try to quantify how much because none of us know what goes into weekly prep and the execution of the plan, but it's a lot more than none.  But what we are seeing is little different than the two years prior.  That's Hue.

So fire both.  Fire Hue.  Don't really have an opinion because of unknown variables.  Those are the only two options right now though.  

 
I'm at the point of giving up.  It's 10am in Ohio and not a peep from the city by the lake.  Reports are people are in the building and going about their normal Monday morning activities.  What's the point anymore?  If the owners don't want to see it and aren't willing to make a change, why should fans give a ####?  This team showed promise, it showed a hunger that has been lying dormant for over a decade.  Yet they continue to let the cancer carry on within their walls.  They have a lame-duck HC who has lost half his team.  They don't play for him anymore.  Look at yesterday.  They were defeated by half time.  He's in conflict with his OC, to the point the OC would be willing to walk out just to get away from him - which I think is the HC's MO in this whole situation.  He has a highly skilled rookie QB who wants to rebuild this team (and is willing to put it on his shoulders!) who is about imploring him to stay out of the offense.  The HC talks to the media and makes himself look foolish on a weekly basis ("Why didn't you use your timeouts during the first half?", "Oh, I forgot about those.") You can't make up this narrative.

HC - Clueless and works harder at throwing people under the bus to keep his job, rather than actually coaching to keep his job

OC - Hard-headed old school coach who can't put up with the HC.  He was brought in to do a job and is hand-cuffed by the HC.  You can see he's tired of the bull#### and ready to leave.

DC - Doesn't trust his backups, so he runs his talented unit into the ground each week.  Look at the snap counts for the DLine - it's obscene.  Give the guys a rest and maybe they'll be more effective.

ST - This unit is just trash.  Peppers would rather run into a wall of people than try to navigate and use his speed/athleticism to gain yards.  The HC "got involved" to "help" this unit.  Can't really tell.  Maybe thats why we're about to go to our 3rd kicker in 8 games.  Thanks coach!

GM/FO - They tried to bring in playmakers and start this rebuild.  They did their best with what they had, which unfortunately included a league-wide stigma of what a wasteland this team has been year in and year out.  Dorsey and team killed the draft and brought in leaders like Landry to help kickstart the rebuild.  Yet the coaching staff has neutered these players and now you can see the wear and tear on them.  The GM and FO are left staring in disbelief wondering how a team with the potential of being 5-3 right now, is actually 2-5-1.  I'm sure they expected a coaching change by now, just like the fans have been chanting for weeks.  Yet nothing has happened.

Owners - continue to keep the "continuity" mantra going, all the while not seeing that continuity for continuity's sake is in close relationship to the definition of insanity.  They keep the same people around in order to maintain continuity, yet they are expecting different results and are shocked when they don't get them.  

I'm fed up.  I'm frustrated.  I'm confused.  I'm tired.  I thought this year would be different.  I thought something good was going to happen.  I guess that makes me about as clueless as the owners.

 
Hey least we made it to October before we threw in the towel :excited:

That's about all I got. I'm back to sleeping through games and not getting worked up over a loss. Yea it sucks but it's not gonna change with the current setup. Hue is going back to the drawing board every week, the OC hates the HC and the HC is using the OC as a scapegoat. The locker room is probably a mess and now the players on D are questioning the game plan so the DC is coming into question as well even though they lead the league in take away's. Even the fat ####### OL coach is looking like an ### with that performance yesterday. You're going to David Carr your future if this keeps up. Oh and lets not forget about our boy Amos the ST coach, nice job you ####### kicker!

This is the last two years on repeat. Hope the rooks we brought in don't get too broken down from this quagmire.

 

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