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wadegarrett

**** CLEVELAND BROWNS THREAD ****

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BB with a DC who can coach defense on par and even exceed his intellect.

That has to be a nightmare scenario for educated Jet fans.

Bowles as a HC was the Peter Principle in action but if you ever went back and saw what he did in Zona when his defense got devastated with injuries ... masterful.  

No one outside of New England should want to see Belichick and Bowles and certainly no Jet fan.  

If you guys get Eric Beineimy I think you'll be pleased.

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The more I read about Dan Campbell, the more I start to like him as my top choice for HC.  The way he deals/works with the players, and the fact that he's studied under Payton for awhile - and was a player, speaks volumes.  He also has the almighty Parcells backing, which I know Haslam likes in a HC.  

I don't see Gregg getting it, and I'm not sure about Freddie.  I think he has the outside chance, but I can see him pairing with Campbell.  

I think some of the other names (Elberfus, Flores, et al) are the darkhorse candidates that may be a surprise hire.  Those are more of the folks that Dorsey has kept an eye on, but may be a year or two away from becoming a HC yet.  

The next few weeks will be fun, that's for sure.

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1 hour ago, Bracie Smathers said:

BB with a DC who can coach defense on par and even exceed his intellect.

That has to be a nightmare scenario for educated Jet fans.

Bowles as a HC was the Peter Principle in action but if you ever went back and saw what he did in Zona when his defense got devastated with injuries ... masterful.  

No one outside of New England should want to see Belichick and Bowles and certainly no Jet fan.  

If you guys get Eric Beineimy I think you'll be pleased.

I agree that he was a very good DC and would not want him in NE. An Arians/Bowles combo would be a great thing for Cleveland.

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On 12/27/2018 at 12:46 PM, beer 30 said:

This is me but I can't imagine ever stepping foot on a field with the intention of losing or not playing 100%. Maybe at the pro level after you've been doing it for years and years and years you can make it right in your mind but I can't see it. To me I've got more a gripe with Baltimore these days than I do against Pittsburgh. That was our team! #### them! I want to beat every team we face by 100 (Why did you go for 2 in that situation coach? Because I couldn't go for 3). I grew up during the height of the Pittsburgh rivalry but that died when they moved. Only us old timers still carry that torch because they have just owned us since the move. I can't imagine too many fans under 45 feel like Pittsburgh is our main rival other than they win the division every year.

I want them all to lose on Sunday but it starts with beating Baltimore and beating them soundly. This team can do that and set the foundation for 2019. I don't care about draft position, I don't care about who gets in or out, I care about beating Baltimore. As the immortal Indians catcher Jake Taylor said after 34 years of futility in a locker room full of misfits that no one expected anything from, "I guess there's only one thing left to do..."

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 @ the bolded especially the part in parenthesis.

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16 minutes ago, Soulfly3 said:

wtf are we gonna do w a near mid round pick?

are we even prepared for this scenario?

You're skipping over coach and free agent stuff, hoss. Per usual I'm probably on an island but I'm more than 2 months away from caring. 

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40 minutes ago, Soulfly3 said:

wtf are we gonna do w a near mid round pick?

are we even prepared for this scenario?

he’ll pick another stud, probably. 

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56 minutes ago, Soulfly3 said:

wtf are we gonna do w a near mid round pick?

are we even prepared for this scenario?

Well y'all have been trading down for a while, so yea, you got this.  At least you won't pick a crappy QB is the mid rounds this time :)

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On 12/30/2018 at 10:20 PM, lod001 said:

Without a doubt. Barring injury, this is the Browns division for the next decade to 15 years.

27 TDs in 13.5 games as a rookie. He's making guys around him better than they are.

Well of course there's a doubt.  You just lost to a rookie QB as well.  But you'll be making the playoffs quite a few times!  I doubt it'll be "your division" for a decade, Harbaugh is a damn good coach, and the Ravens at the least will usually be competitive.  Pitt seems to be heading for a downward spiral though, so it might be a two way battle.

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“In other coaching news, former Browns coach Hue Jackson will interview for the Bengals head coaching job, according to NFL Network.”

:lmao:

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omg, please let this happen. 

wtf??

2 guaranteed Browns wins every year. 

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10 hours ago, MAC_32 said:

You're skipping over coach and free agent stuff, hoss. Per usual I'm probably on an island but I'm more than 2 months away from caring. 

:goodposting:

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10 hours ago, Soulfly3 said:

does dorsey try and spin the league on its head by making an offer for AB?

even if we arent serious, just to flex

Wouldn't be worth the hassle.  This is one headcase WR I don't want on the team.  Some I think they can work with (like OBJ), but AB is on a whole other level.  Too much off-field antics, and now this major hissy fit over JuJu playing well and stealing some of the spotlight.  Let AB and his mink coat fade off into the distance.

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they just asked what Doug Dieken thought about if Cincy were to hire Hue Jackson:

”I’d feel real good about that.”

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19 minutes ago, Peak said:

Wouldn't be worth the hassle.  This is one headcase WR I don't want on the team.  Some I think they can work with (like OBJ), but AB is on a whole other level.  Too much off-field antics, and now this major hissy fit over JuJu playing well and stealing some of the spotlight.  Let AB and his mink coat fade off into the distance.

i agree.  look at some of the guys that Dorsey has brought in like Nick Chubb.  

there’s only room for one oversized personality on this team and that’s the QB.  

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10 hours ago, Soulfly3 said:

does dorsey try and spin the league on its head by making an offer for AB?

even if we arent serious, just to flex

Oh gawd no. Do NOT do this.

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Best news I've heard today.....

Report: Browns denying OC interview requests for Freddie Kitchens

It could just be that they are denying the requests until after Freddie completes his CLE HC interview next week.  It could also be due to CLE wanting to keep him on staff in case the next HC wants to retain Freddie.

Either way, the fact that they aren't letting him go easily is great news.  Freddie and his approach with Baker did more for the offensive production in less than time than Hue, Haley, or Williams did with the team in general.  I'm not one clamoring for Freddie to be the HC (at least not yet), but I would love to see him stay on staff.  He has shown the creativity and willingness to adapt an offense to the player's strengths that we've seen with the Chiefs and the Rams.  

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As an outsider-looking-in (Steelers fan), how can Gregg Williams not be considered as the front runner to retain the HC job? The team's response to him as El Hefe seemed instantaneous. I realize the NFL wants to change to this flag football, trickshot offense driving everything but the AFCN still a black & blue division in my eyes. Williams' approach seems a perfect fit for the division and Baker's demeanor.

They seemed to really have a good thing going second half of the season. Why mess with it?

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3 minutes ago, Dizzy said:

As an outsider-looking-in (Steelers fan), how can Gregg Williams not be considered as the front runner to retain the HC job? The team's response to him as El Hefe seemed instantaneous. I realize the NFL wants to change to this flag football, trickshot offense driving everything but the AFCN still a black & blue division in my eyes. Williams' approach seems a perfect fit for the division and Baker's demeanor.

They seemed to really have a good thing going second half of the season. Why mess with it?

I've thought the same way, and my first reaction was to "keep Williams and Kitchens no matter what - don't mess with what works!"

After stepping away from the ledge, it hit me that the reason Gregg's HC tenure worked so well was because this team needed discipline - it craved it.  You could see it the first couple of weeks, there was a disconnect between the way the Defense played (with passion) and the Offense played (more lackadaisical).  Gregg instills a need for discipline and accountability.  When he installed that as a whole, he got players attention and a new found work ethic.  That's something I want/expect a HC to do with a team.

With that said, he had nothing to do with how the offense functioned, what plays they ran, or how to sustain that side of the field.  That was all Kitchens and the Offensive staff.  Reports have come out after the season that Freddie and Gregg didn't really talk.  Gregg openly said Freddie wasn't his choice as OC, but they made an arranged marriage work.  Those comments, along with the other info out there, swayed me from Gregg being the guy to I'd be okay if CLE went in a different direction.

Freddie has been great as an OC - an up and coming offensive mind that can scheme and game plan.  Give him another couple years as an OC and he has HC material written all over him.  Gregg installed his defensive package that focuses on turnovers.  That has been a good match for his skill players on defense, but this mentality also gives up a lot of points.  His teams don't tackle well, and seem out of coverage at times.  The more I focused on the differences between the two sides, I knew I wanted Freddie to stay and Gregg to go. 

If the next HC wants Gregg to stay on, sure.  That's fine.  But If the next HC wants Bowles, Joseph, Wilks, or someone of equal value, I'm good with that too.

Gregg is a good DC and gets the respect from the players to play for him.  But the play on the field can be sloppy with poor techniques.  If that's how he runs a defense, I don't think he'd last long as a HC.  There will be quick turnarounds and improvements, but over time I think it would revert or fall on deaf ears.  

This is CLE's chance to set things up correctly for long-term success.  For that, I think they must go away from Gregg.  He did a good job showing this team their potential.  But I don't think he's the guy to maintain it, or take them to the next level.

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21 minutes ago, Dizzy said:

As an outsider-looking-in (Steelers fan), how can Gregg Williams not be considered as the front runner to retain the HC job? The team's response to him as El Hefe seemed instantaneous. I realize the NFL wants to change to this flag football, trickshot offense driving everything but the AFCN still a black & blue division in my eyes. Williams' approach seems a perfect fit for the division and Baker's demeanor.

They seemed to really have a good thing going second half of the season. Why mess with it?

He was the right coach for the team the last 2+ months, but he's almost certainly not the right coach going forward.  He was the stabilizing for this team needed to get things going in the right direction, which given his past feels very strange to write.  He was the bridge that got us to where we are now.  That's as far as he's going to take us though.

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45 minutes ago, Peak said:

Reports have come out after the season that Freddie and Gregg didn't really talk.  Gregg openly said Freddie wasn't his choice as OC, but they made an arranged marriage work. 

I don't doubt you, but where is this stuff? 

Gregg said that in a post game presser?

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1 hour ago, Bobcat10 said:

I don't doubt you, but where is this stuff? 

Gregg said that in a post game presser?

They each said in a PC that the other wasn't their "first choice", but they had to learn to work together.  I read different articles online throughout the day, and visit different boards.  I'd have to go back and look for the actual quotes.

Here's Freddie's PC:

Quote

On who informed him he was going to be Browns offensive coordinator:

“Mr. Jimmy (Haslam) and John. They did. I probably was not (Head Coach) Gregg’s (Williams) first choice, but hell, I am here (laughter). Hell, he was not mine either (laughter). 

He then laughs it off saying he was joking, but similar comments came from Williams as well that Freddie wouldn't have been his first choice as OC.

I'll look for the article with the notes with the separation of Freddie and the offense.  That one stuck with me as it really cemented to me just how active a voice Freddie had with Baker and their relationship.  If I remember correctly, Baker even sat in during offensive game planning meetings, which I thought was rather unique.  A rookie QB giving his thoughts on what plays would work and what wouldn't with the OC, Offensive Staff in preparation for next week's game.  

ETA: That tidbit came from a Zegura soundbite from one of his podcasts.  I did find this excerpt about how the Offensive staff and Baker have formed a pretty good relationship based on Zegura's viewpoint.  Browns head coach or not, Freddie Kitchens must be part of Baker Mayfield's future

Quote

Zegura said that is genuine. Kitchens would shake the hands of staff members on the plane afterward and express his appreciation, but it's the relationships with Mayfield, backup QB Drew Stanton and running backs coach Ryan Lindley — the "Four Horsemen," as Zegura calls them — that feel like a fraternity on the sidelines.

He noted that they are always talking, scheming and working together.  The relationships that staff has built in just 2 short months is amazing to me, and one that will be hard to duplicate/re-create if Kitchens is let go.

Edited by Peak
notes
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I'm all for Freddie staying on board, just not sure it's going to work out with the new HC.  Doesn't feel like it's going to be Gregg, so how does Dorsey marry the new HC and Freddie?  I see the Arians angle where he let's Freddie call the plays, but I haven't heard a sniff about him.  Any of the other offensive minds will likely call their own plays...so does Freddie stay on board as their non-playcalling OC+QB coach?  I think that might even be more realistic than trying to marry him to a defensive coach.  

I suppose the HC could be Freddie too and maybe that's why they're having Stefanski in.  While he's a rising name, I'm fairly confident saying Stefanski's interview isn't really for HC duties.  Dorsey is adding a new page to his binder and/or he has something cooking in his mind that was impossibly there a few months ago....

Edited by Bobcat10

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4 hours ago, Peak said:

They each said in a PC that the other wasn't their "first choice", but they had to learn to work together.  I read different articles online throughout the day, and visit different boards.  I'd have to go back and look for the actual quotes.

I thought about it more after I asked and think I remember hearing about Gregg saying something like that.  One of them at least.

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19 minutes ago, Bobcat10 said:

I'm all for Freddie staying on board, just not sure it's going to work out with the new HC.  Doesn't feel like it's going to be Gregg, so how does Dorsey marry the new HC and Freddie?  I see the Arians angle where he let's Freddie call the plays, but I haven't heard a sniff about him.  Any of the other offensive minds will likely call their own plays...so does Freddie stay on board as their non-playcalling OC+QB coach?  I think that might even be more realistic than trying to marry him to a defensive coach.  

I suppose the HC could be Freddie too and maybe that's why they're having Stefanski in.  While he's a rising name, I'm fairly confident saying Stefanski's interview isn't really for HC duties.  Dorsey is adding a new page to his binder and/or he has something cooking in his mind that was impossibly there a few months ago....

Similar to making Mayfield the #1 pick?

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Below is the list of HC interviewees to date for CLE, as reported on Twitter and by the team:

Gregg Williams - Browns IHC/DC - interviewed Jan 1. 
Jim Caldwell - former Lions HC - interviewed Jan 2 
Kevin Stefanski - Vikings OC - interviews Jan 3 
Dan Campbell - Saints TEc - interviews Jan 4 
Brian Flores - Patriots DC - interviews rumored for this weekend 
Mike McCarthy - former Packers HC - interviews next week 
Freddie Kitchens - Browns AHC/OC - interviews next week -- also, Dorsey denying other teams to interview him as OC. 
Mike Munchak - Steelers OLineC 
Matt Eberflus - Cots DC 
Nick Sirianni - Colts OC 
Josh McDaniels, Pats OC - per JLC reports

At this point, I think it's safe to say Arians is not a viable candidate, as CLE still hasn't reached out to him.  So unless something is happening under the cover of darkness, I think it's safe to rule him out at this point.

McDaniels was just added last night, based on Twitter rumors started by JLC.  I haven't heard this reported by the Browns, or by any of the media who cover them.  I'm sure McD has shown some interest, but I really wonder if that interest is mutual.  With Dorsey and Ballard being close, I have to think the whole Indy debacle weighs heavily on McD's candidacy.

Very interested on the new, young OC/DC names (Stefanski, Eberflus, Sirianni) as possible candidates.  I would have to think Kitchens has a leg up on them, if only due to the familiarity with Baker and the team in general.  Possibly interviewing as potential OC or DC fits for one of the other candidates?  What if one, or more, of these were paired with Kitchens as HC?  Talk about a young, but innovative coaching staff.

Not a fan of Flores - I've seen enough of the BB tree and don't want to go back to that well.  Romeo, Weis, Mangini, McD, O'Brien, Patricia - no thanks.  Not interested.

Not a fan of Munchak - great OL coach, but he doesn't seem like a HC fit here.

McCarthy I was completely off board with and wanted no part of when he was released from GB.  Now that the dust has settled and more information has come out about his time there, I'm starting to think he may have been a victim of circumstance.  Articles have stated that Rodgers would rather "improvise" instead of run the plays as designedHe was always known as a great improviser, but now I wonder if that went to his head.  It sounds like his ego became bigger than the team/coaches, which led to the falling out with McCarthy.  

Quote

McCarthy is the play caller, but because Rodgers is so intelligent and such a good improvisational player, the quarterback has the green light to change plays on the field as he see fit. He does, so often that it can be hard for McCarthy to get into a rhythm as the play caller. McCarthy might call the same play three times in a game, without the play actually being run as he called it. And if McCarthy calls a play that Rodgers doesn’t like early in the game, that can sour the mood for the rest of the game. Several sources familiar with the inner workings of the organization say that it devolved into a competition over who can call the better play, and both want the credit when things go right.

There are examples of how McCarthy would use some of the same formations used by the Rams and Chiefs, yet the outcomes weren't the same.  I saw somewhere, I'll have to find it, that Rodgers leads the league in Sacks when a QB holds the ball longer than 2.5 seconds.  That's a lifetime back there for an OL, and Rodgers just runs around looking to make something happen.  It ties directly into the article giving it a little more credibility.  If I were to say that a SB winning HC with a record of 135-82-2 wants to be the HC of the Browns, would anyone believe me?  That's what McCarthy brings to the table.  As long as he's willing to stay creative and be open to other inputs/suggestions, and Dorsey trusts him, then I would be for it.

Dan Campbell is another name that I'd be interested in seeing as HC.  He has Parcells support, and has been studying under Payton for a number of years.  I wonder if a HC/OC pairing of Campbell/Kitchens would work here?  Both are from the Parcells tree, and both are young/hungry and "leader of men".  Could this fit what Dorsey is looking for?

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I think the McCarthy noise is media and agent fueled spin - the cocoon.  Even if you give him a pass for the Rodgers stuff his game theory and management is unacceptable.  Like most of these guys, I'm not going to judge him for what he does Monday-Saturday.  I don't know.  But I know what I see on Sunday's.  It's a product of someone not prepared and with major flaws in how the game is now vs. when he came up in the coaching ranks.

I think he's the type of guy that would be best suited to take a year or two off and reflect on what went wrong then adjust.  If he really does then I think he could bounce back.  If not...

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18 hours ago, Dizzy said:

As an outsider-looking-in (Steelers fan), how can Gregg Williams not be considered as the front runner to retain the HC job? The team's response to him as El Hefe seemed instantaneous. I realize the NFL wants to change to this flag football, trickshot offense driving everything but the AFCN still a black & blue division in my eyes. Williams' approach seems a perfect fit for the division and Baker's demeanor.

They seemed to really have a good thing going second half of the season. Why mess with it?

Well, Peak, MAC and few others covered it but I'll throw my $.02 in as well

18 hours ago, Peak said:

I've thought the same way, and my first reaction was to "keep Williams and Kitchens no matter what - don't mess with what works!"

After stepping away from the ledge, it hit me that the reason Gregg's HC tenure worked so well was because this team needed discipline - it craved it.  You could see it the first couple of weeks, there was a disconnect between the way the Defense played (with passion) and the Offense played (more lackadaisical).  Gregg instills a need for discipline and accountability.  When he installed that as a whole, he got players attention and a new found work ethic.  That's something I want/expect a HC to do with a team.

Pretty much this and as MAC said, Williams was the right coach at the right time to kick the team in the ### and instill some much needed disciple into the organization. I haven't looked but one of the major things I used to bang the drum on was penalties and more pointedly, drive stalling penalties. Those times when it was 2nd and 5 and someone would jump offsides...multiple times. There was nothing that got me going more than that bull#### and it all points back to lack of disciple on the practice field which translated to lack of disciple on the playing field. Hue was never that guy. You saw it when half the ####### team was riding bikes during training camp! Immediately when Williams took over that stuff stopped.

Also to MAC's point, I think Gregg has gone about as far as he is capable of right now. You saw a few of the bad time management calls this year and I think it was an arranged marriage between him & Kitchens but long term I'm not 100% it lasts. Both knew it was in their best interests to shine in their respective positions so why wouldn't you bury hatchets and hold hands for a few games?

It was a magical ride and a lot of fun to see what I think we all knew was capable with the roster we have right now but there is still a lot of room for improvement. That defense has a ton of potential but some of those schemes really had me scratching my head. And you can go back to last year with Peppers playing in the 3rd row of the Dawg Pound. Not only do I think that Williams isn't the answer going forward, I question his DC capabilities at this point.

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Mitchell Schwartz makes all pro team...…..doh

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9 minutes ago, Dez said:

Mitchell Schwartz makes all pro team...…..doh

Product of the system

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wonder what the plan is for backup QB next year?

any chance they draft a QB so they have a cheap backup?

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3 minutes ago, amnesiac said:

wonder what the plan is for backup QB next year?

any chance they draft a QB so they have a cheap backup?

Stanton is still under contract. 

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2 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

Stanton is still under contract. 

be still my heart. 

so, they maybe roll the dice on a qb later in the draft?  you think they carry 3 qbs?

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20 minutes ago, amnesiac said:

be still my heart. 

so, they maybe roll the dice on a qb later in the draft?  you think they carry 3 qbs?

Under this cba I dont see the point. At least making it a priority anyway. There will definitely be a young body in camp but beyond that? It's tough. Just not enough meaningful reps. 

I think a wave 2 free agent is more likely and probably a more natural fit. 

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Too bad the Browns didn't try one of those screen passes that the Chargers just ran vs Baltimore at the end of the 1st half with Baltimore doing their blitz everyone on every play to try and keep Chargers from getting a FG to end the half.  It didn't work for them this time like it did vs us.

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8 hours ago, MAC_32 said:

Under this cba I dont see the point. At least making it a priority anyway. There will definitely be a young body in camp but beyond that? It's tough. Just not enough meaningful reps. 

I think a wave 2 free agent is more likely and probably a more natural fit. 

if they keep Stanton, i’d rather they try to find someone in the draft than carrying a retread as their 3rd QB. 

 i think they’re probably a year away from overpaying a backup QB anyway. 

so it might make more sense to try to develope a backup for a year and see what happens. 

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11 minutes ago, amnesiac said:

if they keep Stanton, i’d rather they try to find someone in the draft than carrying a retread as their 3rd QB. 

 i think they’re probably a year away from overpaying a backup QB anyway. 

so it might make more sense to try to develope a backup for a year and see what happens. 

Development sounds like a good idea between January and May, but in practice it doesn't really work unless you intend for that guy to eventually get a shot at starting. There aren't enough reps. And there are basically none once September rolls around. 

I think the March priorities are wave one types - free agents and trades. Worry about wave two when we get there. Draft? If you really like a day 3 type then whatever. But if you don't spend picks elsewhere then bring in udfa's to push Stanton (plus?).

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1 minute ago, ghostguy123 said:

Tyrod Taylor sucks enough we might be able to retain him cheap.  With an improved team he MIGHT be able to win a game or two in a pinch.  

You're not wrong. Just dont get tied down to names. Let the market shake out the names then decide if they fit. 

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3 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

You're not wrong. Just dont get tied down to names. Let the market shake out the names then decide if they fit. 

For a backup though, a guy who was just here all year would be a plus because the reps will be few and far between.

If they change systems, well, then who cares.

 

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Just now, ghostguy123 said:

For a backup though, a guy who was just here all year would be a plus because the reps will be few and far between.

If they change systems, well, then who cares.

 

I'm not getting in a bidding war for him is all I'm saying. 

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5 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

Well, no, of course not.  I dont think anyone is

Qb market makes teams do stupid things. Especially in down years like this one. 

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21 hours ago, Soulfly3 said:

Get Flacco on the low low. 

What mushroom are you eating that makes you think Flacco will be anywhere near low let alone low low? :rolleyes:

12 hours ago, ghostguy123 said:

Tyrod Taylor sucks enough we might be able to retain him cheap.  With an improved team he MIGHT be able to win a game or two in a pinch.  

:goodposting: Why not keep him? Agree we shouldn't get into a bidding war but I'm fine with him being the backup. Literally haven't heard his or Stanton's name this season, I like that.

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