Peak
Footballguy
I think Duke's value is a 3rd at best. I don't see anyone giving CLE a 2nd rnd pick for him. I'd like to see Duke packaged with a pick to get a starting CB or LB to fill a need.
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Cleveland Browns (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter wadegarrett
- Start date
MAC_32
Footballguy
We fleeced the Jags last year to get a 5 for Hyde. If you're expecting a 2 or a 3 for him you're going to be very disappointed.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
barackdhouse
Footballguy
Seems like you'd want to just keep Duke for the period that Hunt is out. Plus who knows if Hunt will even work out at all?
But it sure seems like Duke is a marked man within the Browns org, which makes me think they will move him. But no bites yet.
But it sure seems like Duke is a marked man within the Browns org, which makes me think they will move him. But no bites yet.
Peak
Footballguy
I think Dorsey is in that "win now" mode. I wouldn't be surprised if he traded away the rest of the draft right now. There's rumors of Eric Berry being medically cleared to return and that he was in the building yesterday. If he can play at 85% of what he used to do, that would work out well for now. There's also talk of Tre Boston who played with Wilks in AZ. Another solid player. Further rumors of trading Duke or Ogbah and picks to DEN for Miller. The rumor mill keeps going now that OBJ is in CLE. I think once that trade went through, Dorsey realized the iron was hot and it was time to strike.
MAC_32
Footballguy
This would be dumb. The best opportunity to win may be when the QB (and young core) are on their rookie deals, but going all-in makes it that more difficult once they start getting paid. A sustainable model for success includes cheap, young talent continuing to churn through the pipeline.
Peak
Footballguy
Agreed, just saying what I'm hearing/reading/seeing online and in social media. Dorsey has played it smart thus far in that he is signing/getting young players. He's not overpaying for aging veterans. I think if you look at the Offensive and Defensive starters, the oldest player is 28. The avg age is 25ish? So if he can bring in solid pieces that are young and talented to help compete, why not? There are still holes to fill at LB, SS, and CB on the defense - with LB and SS being the biggest needs. If it takes a mid/low round pick and a player to improve a position, I saw go for it.
Dorsey has found value with later picks. If he takes one year to trade and get the roster how he wants it, he can then go into maintenance mode by drafting their backups. That's what NE did for years, but with older players. Then all of these new names popped up as their draftees started to show up after the older players contracts expired or they retired. It's a sound model, plus they spend far, far less in dead cap money each season because they manage their roster in a solid manner. If Dorsey thinks we're a player or two away, and he thinks he can get those players now - go for it. He's been smart enough to manage the team and cap situation he was given. I'm not going to second guess him now. It's a fun ride, and as a fan, I've waited too long watching regimes hoard picks and players fade away or not make it to the season because they fail in TC. They've drafted well and have a solid foundation before the trades this season. Go finish what you started Dorsey!
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I agree - the Browns look pretty stacked right now, but let's face it these "offseason super teams" usually don't pan out - and the Browns still need to get by a number of very good teams in the AFC (NE, KC, SD, IND, HOU...). Going all in would defeat the slow build that has made this team dangerous in the first place.
Peak
Footballguy
The interesting thing to me is that Haslam signed off on this approach. I think it was CBD podcast where they quoted Haslam as saying "Go crazy." You can tell Dorsey has full control right now with the moves he's making and how he's handling the assets at his disposal. Hopefully it doesn't backfire on him, but right now I don't see anything out of hand. I think they still have about $38mil in cap space(per Sportrac) and plentiful draft picks (2nd, 3rd, 4th, 3 5ths, 6th, 7th) this offseason. Do I think he'll trade all of those away? No. Could he trade a 2nd or 3rd or 4th, while adding a player or two in order to get a LB or SS? Sure. That wouldn't break the bank, and it would still leave enough picks and cap space to do what they have to do to improve areas of weaknesses.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Read everything, believe nothing. Writers get paid by clicks. Hot takes get clicks. Sensible analysis doesn't.
Who are some solid, young, and talented pieces he could bring in? at what cost? and are they so much better than what's available on the free agent market that it justifies utilizing one of the remaining day two picks?
There are a number of unsigned players that I think could step in and fill those holes - Cyprien, Addae, and Barron stick out. Then use draft picks as short term contingency plans and long term replacements - and not necessarily at those positions.
Peak
Footballguy
Completely agree. There aren't many I believe, but the few I do have been more right than wrong. Those are the ones I listen to when they say something is brewing. Even podcasts like CBD are done in the building and there is a lot of impromptu conversations that happen when they are "on the air". Just yesterday they stopped mid-sentence surprised to see a FA walking through their halls. All accounts say it was Berry, but no "official" confirmation. But things happen, and news leaks to the right people some time.
Great questions! I'm not sure as not many names have been out there due to ongoing talks. I've read at least one more trade and a solid FA signing. Names that have been mentioned are Miller (DEN), Ramsey (Jax), Jenkins (NYG), Boston (FA), Berry (FA) - those are ones I have heard or read about this week. Some are proabably wishful thinking, like Miller or Ramsey. But Jenkins went on Twitter and Instagram publicly stating he was going to CLE with OBJ and OV, then deleted it after it started making the rounds. He would be a trade, not saying it would be a good one - but something I've seen online.
I like Boston and think he would fill that SS hole very well. If Berry is healthy, I think he could fit in as well - but likely not a long-term option.
The LB spot is where I think it gets tricky. I've heard Clay Matthews coming in on a one year deal to help groom Avery. I've also heard that Dorsey is willing to make a trade to get the right piece since the FA pool is shallow.
I'm just saying it's an interesting time and there are many moving pieces. I wouldn't be surprised if there is another trade, and a couple of FA signings. Too much smoke about Duke and Ogbah being available for trade not to be true. I don't think Ogbah will garner much interest (CLE values him more than other teams, IMO), but I think the interest in Duke is real - and if packaged with a Day 2 pick could garner a nice piece to help fill a need.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Peak
Footballguy
Curious if the last 4 games of 2018 season count against this suspension. That was part of the conversation yesterday when there was talk of trading Duke. If those 4 games count against the suspension, then the hit to CLE won't be as big and it opens up the trade of Duke even more.
If those 4 games don't count and all 8 are in the 2019 season, then I don't see Duke being moved until the trade deadline, if at all this season.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Best RB group in the NFL, top 3ish pair of edge rushers and top 3ish set of pass catchers. They are going to be fun to watch.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I was guessing 8-10 games for Hunt. I was not even aware of any possibility that games last year could count. Not sure how that is possible, but if he only missed 4 games then sweet, but again I just dont see how.
It does seem like a glitch in the rules when a player gets suspended and then the team just cuts them.
It does seem like a glitch in the rules when a player gets suspended and then the team just cuts them.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
As for trading picks for players, at this point it would need to be a perfect situation to do so. If we keep trading for guys with big cap numbers we will have to be cutting players next year in order to be under the cap. That would sure be weird eh? 
With the 8 picks this year, I do expect some movement, in fact I would not be surprised to see Dorsey try to move our 2nd and a couple mid round picks to get to the back end of the 1st
With the 8 picks this year, I do expect some movement, in fact I would not be surprised to see Dorsey try to move our 2nd and a couple mid round picks to get to the back end of the 1st
Peak
Footballguy
He was placed on the Commissioner's Exempt List when all of this came out. I forget how long he was listed there before KC cut him (I think it was 4 weeks). But that essentially was the player being suspended from play. I don't know if Hunt would have to appeal the 8 game suspension to get those 4 included, or not. I have no idea how that works. But if there is no appeal by Hunt, which is what is being reported, then I would assume that those 4 games do not count and Hunt won't see the field until week 9.
Peak
Footballguy
Agreed. I don't think Dorsey will go insane and trade away everything, but I could see another move as long as it fills a major hole on the team. He's not trading away pieces just for depth players. I can also see him packaging picks to get back into the bottom of the first, if players start to fall. The picks we have now won't necessarily be the picks we're going to use come the end of April, IMO.As for trading picks for players, at this point it would need to be a perfect situation to do so. If we keep trading for guys with big cap numbers we will have to be cutting players next year in order to be under the cap. That would sure be weird eh?
With the 8 picks this year, I do expect some movement, in fact I would not be surprised to see Dorsey try to move our 2nd and a couple mid round picks to get to the back end of the 1st
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
He is going to be coming back later in the year with fresh legs.
It could work out very well, maybe better than some expect.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Problem is, during those 8 weeks isn't he not allowed to even practice with the team?
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
If it takes him a few weeks to come up to game speed then his legs would still be fresh for the post season and I am not shy about saying we WILL BE IN THE PLAYOFFS THIS SEASON..
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Yeah, I would think by week 11 or 12 he should be into the full swing of things, which to me makes it even less likely we actually trade Duke unless we had some other RB up our sleeve we wanted.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Exactly man. I have no idea why we'd want to trade Duke. I don't know why he wasn't used more last year. He's a great weapon in the redzone, he picks up the blitz, he's got the best hands of any of our RBs who won't be suspended for 8 games this year.
Keep him and if some team suffers an injury and wants to overpay then take advantage of a panicked market.
I see no need to trade Duke Johnson right now unless Dorsey has something cooking with a trade where Duke is part of the deal.
Peak
Footballguy
Good info from Glazer on the trade and his "hot take" of OBJ getting traded this offseason.
Looks like Shurmur finally repaid the Browns for the money he took as HC. He thought he could work with OBJ and reel him in, but that proved more difficult than he wanted to admit. So he convinced mgmt to get rid of him.
Looks like Shurmur finally repaid the Browns for the money he took as HC. He thought he could work with OBJ and reel him in, but that proved more difficult than he wanted to admit. So he convinced mgmt to get rid of him.
The Man With No Name
Footballguy
Sure, cap space is good --- for this year.
But only 4 teams have less available in 2020.
The draft picks are very valuable.
But only 4 teams have less available in 2020.
The draft picks are very valuable.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Part of that is because so many of our guys are under contract vs the rest of the league.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Hankmoody
Footballguy
No it's not, not by a long shot. Players are paid while on Exempt List and those games do not count toward suspensions.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Hmnnn. This is interesting.
Been looking over the background and timelines of the ODJ deal and this is what has been revealed.
Jay Glazer said the Giants were going to deal ODJ all along. His (Glazer) track record is impeccable so from his POV the Giants were going to make a deal no matter what.
The Giants 'reportedly' were asking for a 'minimum' of two first-round draft picks and obviously no one was offering so Gettleman was left in talks with Dorsey and were stalled over a period of days.
This is where the timeline comes into play.
Dorsey gave Gettleman his final offer and a 24 hour timeline.
Dorsey THEN signed WR Breshard Perriman indicating he was going to walk away from the table.
Gettleman caved at that point and cobbled together a deal for much less than two first-round picks.
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We still need an OLB and Justin Houston is out there but his price might be high.
If Duke gets dealt it would not surprise me if it were for an OLB.
Been looking over the background and timelines of the ODJ deal and this is what has been revealed.
Jay Glazer said the Giants were going to deal ODJ all along. His (Glazer) track record is impeccable so from his POV the Giants were going to make a deal no matter what.
The Giants 'reportedly' were asking for a 'minimum' of two first-round draft picks and obviously no one was offering so Gettleman was left in talks with Dorsey and were stalled over a period of days.
This is where the timeline comes into play.
Dorsey gave Gettleman his final offer and a 24 hour timeline.
Dorsey THEN signed WR Breshard Perriman indicating he was going to walk away from the table.
Gettleman caved at that point and cobbled together a deal for much less than two first-round picks.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
We still need an OLB and Justin Houston is out there but his price might be high.
If Duke gets dealt it would not surprise me if it were for an OLB.
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daveR
Footballguy
People are talking about trading him for a 5 or a 6 & wondering why they would do it. I think you're right about moving him for a player. It's a different perspective altogether.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
How is this deal considered "much less" than two 1st round picks?
Pick 17 alone can ALMOST be considered the value of two late 1sts, then add in a 3rd, and Peppers who was a 1st rounder 2 years ago who played well last year.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
If we were gonna deal Duke for a player, we should just deal a pick for a player.
Unless they have something up their sleeve at the RB position deal Duke makes no sense
MAC_32
Footballguy
Not if the potential buyer is interested in Duke and has a starting olb available. They may not be interested I'm trading that same player for a pick. Takes two to tango.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Would you trade a 1st round pick for Peppers?
Would the majority of NFL GMs trade a 1st round pick in this draft for Peppers?
Considering Antonio Brown was dealt for a 3rd and 5th, it is highly unlikely that he'd fetch the same amount even with two years left on his rookie contract because he plays one of the most fungible positions (box SS who isn't strong in coverage) that is easy to replace.
Dorsey was willing to part with him rather than a future 1st for a reason.
daveR
Footballguy
Since it's a slow day... Where would Peppers be drafted if he were available this year, given that we know he is a competent NFL safety? I'd say no lower than the 3rd, maybe the 2nd. So, I agree with GG here. A 1 and two 3s isn't "MUCH less" (ie a ####load less) than two 1s.
MAC_32
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Dude, the difference between pick 17 and pick 32, plus pick 95, plus Peppers is absolutely worth a late first.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
The gap between 1 and 32 is what a future 1st is and that future value was not traded.
You also have it wrong. Peppers plus pick #132 (we gave up the 3rd round pick we got from NE in the Danny Shelton deal) is what we gave up instead of a future 1st.
You can put the future 1st at a lower value of 17 to 32 but even that gap is worth more than pick #132 and Peppers which is why Dorsey did not deal the future 1st and instead offered a late 3rd and Peppers.
Peppers has a lower value today just like Danny Shelton had a lower value last year when Dorsey traded him for a future 3rd round pick which is probably what Peppers value is, a 3rd round pick. Two 3rd round picks do not equal a future 1st round pick even a low 1st round pick at the 17-32 range you guesstimate.
The Man With No Name
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Bobcat10
Footballguy
Seems to me the best time to trade Duke is at the trade deadline or next offseason. Showcase his talents while Hunt is out. Not sure I get all the chatter about dealing him now unless someone is overpaying and that normally is not how it works for a player like him. Dorsey could ship him out (maybe Duke has quietly asked to be traded), then draft a RB and sign a vet, but that seems unnecessary if Duke is cool.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
So who is still out there that we want? Can donkey Kong suh come at any sort of bargain for a year or two?
Safety, Berry and then draft one or two?
Safety, Berry and then draft one or two?
