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wadegarrett

**** CLEVELAND BROWNS THREAD ****

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1 hour ago, MAC_32 said:

The penalties and the Robinson ejection were well earned. Sure, you can microscope particular plays. The in-the-grasp sack call also comes to mind. Those calls go both ways though. Don't get blinded by fandom eyes. We penaltied our way out of the game plan then the flood gates opened late. This is an important week for Freddie, Baker, and the rest of the team leadership. I don't think they will fix all that ails us, but I trust they'll get enough done so Monday ends differently than yesterday.

:goodposting:

That was a tough watch man. Damn what a disappointment. I don't really have much more than that. Mac summed up the penalties very well. I was trying to get the hash tag #gofor200 going but it was too late.

This week will be pivotal for them. One of the biggest #####es i had with Hue was the undisciplined nature of his teams (even to the point of documenting them for a while) because of all the penalties. To see that yesterday I was right back there again. Just horribly undisciplined. Going to take a lot of work to right that wrong BUT I think this team can turn it around. One other thing I didn't like was Freddie's presser after the game. I would have preferred he said something more like I'm going to put a boot in someones ### next practice and the penalties WILL NOT continue. He was a little more laid back than I care for. And while he's right, it's only one game, I wouldn't trot that out after the ### whoopin they took yesterday.

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The penalties hurt for sure,but what struck me was giving up that many points to Marcus Mariotta at home. The offense will be fine as the season goes along,they need to address what was supposed to be an improved defense imop

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1 hour ago, Rubi said:

The penalties hurt for sure,but what struck me was giving up that many points to Marcus Mariotta at home. The offense will be fine as the season goes along,they need to address what was supposed to be an improved defense imop

It's one game. The Browns are still a talented team.  Don't forget how far the Browns have come in two years.  

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18 penalties is a direct result of coaching, no excuse.  This can be cleared up and it better or Freddie will be a one-and-done'r.

The O-Line is a big problem, the QB and WRs can't get any chemistry if the QB is running for his life.  Time in the pocket is the key for Baker.  Hubbard is a Dorsey issue because he can't block speed rushers off the edge but Robinson is a coaching issue since he got tossed for kicking a guy and that is a coaching issue.

The D will probably be ok.  We had a matchup issue and had to sit Avery and started some JAG at OLB to try and matchup with the big Titan RB and we saw what happened.  They beat us up and wore us down and then play-actioned us to death.

-----------------------------------

Mike Herndon‏ @MikeMiracles

PFF stats show four teams that used play action to an extreme amount: • #Ravens (50.0%) won 59-10 • #Cowboys (46.6%) won 35-17 • #Chiefs (45.5%) won 40-26 • #Titans (43.3%) won 43-13 No other team was over 35.7% PA. It’s almost like play action passing is wildly effective.

11:42 AM - 9 Sep 2019

Mike Herndon‏ @MikeMiracles 3h3 hours ago

Mariota was 7 of 11 for 217 yards and 3 TDs on play action. Screen to Henry obviously a big chunk, but 6 of 10 for 142 is STILL 14.2 YPA with 2 TDs. God bless Arthur Smith if this is the direction he is taking this offense.

------------------------------------

Play action works if you can run and is even better with a mobile QB.  Wilk's D is built to stop the new-look NFL that typically goes four-wides.  This week facing LeVeon who played four snaps in the slot presents a new challenge but they are going to try and attack us with play-action till we show we can stop it.

Edited by Bracie Smathers

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7 hours ago, Rubi said:

The penalties hurt for sure,but what struck me was giving up that many points to Marcus Mariotta at home. The offense will be fine as the season goes along,they need to address what was supposed to be an improved defense imop

It was just 15 points until the screen pass td - 2 from a safety. Then the final 3 were all directly from interceptions in our own territory, one returned for td. 

Edited by MAC_32

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50 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

18 penalties is a direct result of coaching, no excuse.  This can be cleared up and it better or Freddie will be a one-and-done'r.

The O-Line is a big problem, the QB and WRs can't get any chemistry if the QB is running for his life.  Time in the pocket is the key for Baker.  Hubbard is a Dorsey issue because he can't block speed rushers off the edge but Robinson is a coaching issue since he got tossed for kicking a guy and that is a coaching issue.

The D will probably be ok.  We had a matchup issue and had to sit Avery and started some JAG at OLB to try and matchup with the big Titan RB and we saw what happened.  They beat us up and wore us down and then play-actioned us to death.

-----------------------------------

Mike Herndon‏ @MikeMiracles

PFF stats show four teams that used play action to an extreme amount: • #Ravens (50.0%) won 59-10 • #Cowboys (46.6%) won 35-17 • #Chiefs (45.5%) won 40-26 • #Titans (43.3%) won 43-13 No other team was over 35.7% PA. It’s almost like play action passing is wildly effective.

11:42 AM - 9 Sep 2019

Mike Herndon‏ @MikeMiracles 3h3 hours ago

Mariota was 7 of 11 for 217 yards and 3 TDs on play action. Screen to Henry obviously a big chunk, but 6 of 10 for 142 is STILL 14.2 YPA with 2 TDs. God bless Arthur Smith if this is the direction he is taking this offense.

------------------------------------

Play action works if you can run and is even better with a mobile QB.  Wilk's D is built to stop the new-look NFL that typically goes four-wides.  This week facing LeVeon who played four snaps in the slot presents a new challenge but they are going to try and attack us with play-action till we show we can stop it.

Robinson is a Robinson issue. 

But, agreed about play action and Arthur Smith.

And the Avery decision was a mistake, regardless of the matchup. 

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21 hours ago, Peak said:

Thats a bit of an over-reaction.  Hue's team wouldn't have moved the ball or scored any points.

I didn't get a chance to watch, but what was with all the penalties yesterday?  Listening to the radio, it seemed like a lot of ticky-tack calls.  Regardless, can't let the refs dictate the game flow.

What happened with Robinson?  Did I hear correctly that he kicked a Titans player in the head?  Is he now suspended for a couple of games, or able to return for NYJ next week?

That LT spot is cursed once JT left.  No one has really hung around at that spot very long.

Actually Hue's team scored 26 in'16 and 9 in '17 against the Titans.  Penalties, missed xpts, I cant believe anyone that watched the game could think any different.  Robinson looked like a 2 year old throwing a tantrum.  Garrett slapped someone.  Baker looked like Johnny.  They looked lost.  On both sides of the ball.  I don't think thats a one game and fix it problem.  

Edited by Random

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On 9/8/2019 at 7:44 PM, MAC_32 said:

Yep, Zeitler for Vernon.

NFL Research‏Verified account @NFLResearch

In tonight's loss to the Saints, J.J. Watt failed to record at least 1 tackle or 1 QB hit for the first time in 105 career games.

8:34 PM - 9 Sep 2019

---------------------------------

Heck it only took Olivier Vernon his first game with the Browns to match J.J. with an -fer in the stat sheet.

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New head coach who was never even a coordinator till last year, new coordinators, offense didnt get to play together in preseason, bunch of new players on D.................laying a week 1 egg isn't remotely surprising.  It sucks and it hurts, but not surprising.  

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11 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

New head coach who was never even a coordinator till last year, new coordinators, offense didnt get to play together in preseason, bunch of new players on D.................laying a week 1 egg isn't remotely surprising.  It sucks and it hurts, but not surprising.  

Losing the way we did was surprising, but it may have also been the best thing to happen to this group.

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1 minute ago, MAC_32 said:

Losing the way we did was surprising, but it may have also been the best thing to happen to this    group   coaching staff.

18 penalties, not being prepared, undisciplined, no halftime adjustments of note, poor play calling especially down with 90 yards to go with back-to-back penalties and then a sack for a safety, zero reps in preseason with skill positions to iron out kinks, etc et el...

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Not easy to evaluate many things when there are like 18 penalties for 200 yds.  It changes quite a bit, but there were a few times where I questioned Freddie's calls.  People keep bringing up the safety, but the consecutive 2nd/3rd and 1 throws followed by a punt (I believe from Titan's territory iirc) is a bigger head scratcher. 

I do think the OL could be a worrisome topic all year, but we should be reminded at one point we were down to 5 healthy (active, yes I'm looking at you Corbett) lineman during this game. 

I also understand why Avery may have been limited, but not to the extent he was limited.  The defense wore down, he should have played more.

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Play calling was not a problem. Sure, you can drill down to a particular sequence or two, but you can do that in any game - win or lose. When the team wasn't creating penalties the offense was functioning well. The problem was the volume of penalties. In 19 first down opportunities we had 15 called penalties. Game plans and play calling get thrown away when that's the case. Fix the penalties and you fix the offense.

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19 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

Play calling was not a problem. Sure, you can drill down to a particular sequence or two, but you can do that in any game - win or lose. When the team wasn't creating penalties the offense was functioning well. The problem was the volume of penalties. In 19 first down opportunities we had 15 called penalties. Game plans and play calling get thrown away when that's the case. Fix the penalties and you fix the offense.

 

“Truthful hyperbole’ is a contradiction in terms. It’s a way of saying, ‘It’s a lie, but who cares?’ ”
― Tony Schwartz

This team has talent and wasn't prepared, made no halftime adjustments, and the play calling can be questioned.

We lost the opener.  Teams that win the opener have a slight advantage, a 52% chance to make the playoffs.

Teams that lose the opener are at a huge disadvantage, only a 25% chance to make the playoffs.

This team can't be a place for Freddie Kitchens to learn on the job where he's got to fail miserably before he can spot issues.

Freddie Kitchens head coaching debut did not go as planned – Touchdown Alabama Magazine

Quote

 

... questions about his experience and whether he even deserved consideration have been a constant dialogue throughout training camp.

...Cleveland looked overmatched the entire game despite having the roster advantage on paper.

...The Brown’s offense was expected to thrive this season with all the weapons they have. It’s also Kitchens calling card as a coach since he served as the interim offensive coordinator in 2018. Yet the offense could not get into any rhythm at all.

...What may be the most egregious stat of the night was how undisciplined the entire team was during the game. Cleveland finished the game with 18 penalties for 182 yards. On the outside that may suggest that the coach doesn’t have a good grasp on his player’s in-game emotions.

...The questions about Kitchens legitimacy will continue to circulate through the media until he can put together some wins.

Despite the lopsided first game, Cleveland has way too much talent on both sides of the roster to not figure something out. 

 

That is from a Bama paper.  We all love the guy but the team is too good and we've waited too long.  Their aren't any excuses.

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40 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

Play calling was not a problem. Sure, you can drill down to a particular sequence or two, but you can do that in any game - win or lose. When the team wasn't creating penalties the offense was functioning well. The problem was the volume of penalties. In 19 first down opportunities we had 15 called penalties. Game plans and play calling get thrown away when that's the case. Fix the penalties and you fix the offense.

In general, I agree.  I just think the one sequence should be mentioned before the safety.  

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27 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

Balloon was deflated with the missed extra point

If that's the case, pack it up seasons over.  

C'mon man, almost as bad as the argument that they weren't prepared.  

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28 minutes ago, Bobcat10 said:

If that's the case, pack it up seasons over.  

C'mon man, almost as bad as the argument that they weren't prepared.  

It's time to step away for a while if you took that post serious enough to reply in this way.

And why the way, they actually weren't prepared.  Seemed pretty obvious.

Edited by ghostguy123

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26 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

It's time to step away for a while if you took that post serious enough to reply in this way.

And why the way, they actually weren't prepared.  Seemed pretty obvious.

I take all posts seriously.  Sarcasm is not always easy to decipher.  Honestly, I have no idea what makes your post funny or worth posting to be sarcastic.  That's not the first time I've read that about the EP (just the first time in here, I think).

 

I guess you'd have to define "prepared".  You can get your ### kicked up and down the field on any given Sunday and still have been well "prepared".  To me, discipline, execution, and preparedness are very different animals.

Edited by Bobcat10

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Interesting read I thought I'd share here.  Take it for what it's worth.  19 penalties is excessive and screams of undisciplined play by the team.  Add in the fact that it has been centered around the same Referee who was part of the CLE/TEN crew, and now you have conspiracy theories flying around about the league calling for the refs to pull a code red on the Browns to deflate them and "put them in their place".  :tinfoilhat:

Quote

 

Scott Petrak (Twitter): Here’s what #Browns DT Devaroe Lawrence told me about his 15-yard penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct.

Official to him: Watch where the #### you’re going.

Lawrence: #### you.

Official was said to be Brad Allen

 

Refs for the TEN/CLE game: Barry Anderson, Jim Mello, Greg Yette, Steve Zimmer, Brad Allen, Brian Bolinger, Jimmy Russell

Quote

Twitter: Ref Brad Allen’s crew called 18 penalties for 182 yds against CLE in their loss to TEN, the most ever called by his crew. Interestingly the Titans have been the beneficiaries in the two games that rank 2nd and 3rd. #NFLKickoff #Browns

9/18/16:  Lions vs Titans - 17 Penalties for 138 yds on Lions

11/6/16: Chargers vs Titans - 14 Penalties for 107 yds on Chargers

 

Quote

Mike Roadk (Twitter): Ref Brad Allen, on open mic, to officials in huddle: “There needs to be a meeting of the minds with BUF coach as to why we picked up flag." (Bills @ Bears, 9/7/14)

Quote

 

Interesting stats about Brad Allen taken from an ESPN story from 2016:

Most- and least-penalized referee
Referee Brad Allen's crew led the NFL this season with an average of 18.4 penalties called per game; they called at least 20 in five games. Bill Vinovich's crew ranked at the bottom, with 12.5 penalties per game, having never called more than 16 in one outing.

That's nearly a 50 percent discrepancy between the the highest and lowest crews, statistics every NFL team tracks as it prepares for games. Here's a full ranking of the 17 crews:

2016 NFL officiating report
Referee Penalties per game
Allen, Brad 18.4
McAulay, Terry 18.3
Boger, Jerome 18
Triplette, Jeff 17.8
Hussey, John 17.5
Anderson, Walt 17.3
Parry, John 16.7
Blakeman, Clete 16.3
Hochuli, Ed 15.7
Cheffers, Carl 15.1
Corrente, Tony 15.1
Torbert, Ronald 14.9
Coleman, Walt 14.8
Morelli, Pete 13.9
Steratore, Gene 13.5
Wrolstad, Craig 13.1
Vinovich, Bill 12.5
* Includes accepted, declined and offsetting
Source: ESPN Stats & Information

 

 

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hard to not call a penalty when the player kicks someone else in the head or punches them in the face.  :shrug:

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2 hours ago, Bobcat10 said:

I take all posts seriously.  Sarcasm is not always easy to decipher.  Honestly, I have no idea what makes your post funny or worth posting to be sarcastic.  That's not the first time I've read that about the EP (just the first time in here, I think).

 

I guess you'd have to define "prepared".  You can get your ### kicked up and down the field on any given Sunday and still have been well "prepared".  To me, discipline, execution, and preparedness are very different animals.

Then just dont ever respond to my posts ever again, because most are not of the super serious variety.

We were not prepared.  Deal with it.

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Warren Sharp‏Verified account @SharpFootball

On early downs in 2018, the Browns used: 11 pers: 56% 12 pers: 21%

In the preseason, Kitchens completely changed: 11 pers: 85% 12 pers: 12%

What did we see in 2019? 11 pers: 92% 12 pers: 6%

Note: Baker dominated from 12/13 in 2018.

I expect Kitchens to modify this, read below:

👉   LINK

12:47 PM - 10 Sep 2019

--------------------------------------

Anthony D'Anna‏ @adanna_89 12m12 minutes ago

Makes me wonder how NFL coaches don’t realize this and adjust. Stubbornness to their scheme?

--------------------------------------

FYI:

11 personnel = 1 TE, 1 RB, and 3 WRs

12 personnel = 2 TEs, 1 RB, and 2 WRs

All 4 sacks came when Kitchens had us in 11 personnel.  You would think we'd go with two-TEs to assist in pass-pro especially after our starting OLT was ejected and his backup went out injured and when our ORT couldn't block Cameron Wade to save his life.  

Kitchen could have even gone with 02 personnel to help with pass-pro.

02 personnel = 2 TEs, 0 RBs, and 3 WRs basically an empty set of RBs but extra TEs to help with pass-pro

Their are options and we saw the results of going with 11 personnel 92% of the time. 

4 sacks, penalties, a safety, and Baker leaving the field holding his wrist and wincing in pain.  

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just heard on the radio that the fan that threw his beer on the Titans player that jumped in the Dawg Pound has been banned from the stadium. 

 

WTF?

 

i don’t like to be the angry old uncle, but this is ridiculous.  

if he was a season ticket holder... i don’t know what to say.  

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8 minutes ago, amnesiac said:

just heard on the radio that the fan that threw his beer on the Titans player that jumped in the Dawg Pound has been banned from the stadium. 

 

WTF?

 

i don’t like to be the angry old uncle, but this is ridiculous.  

if he was a season ticket holder... i don’t know what to say.  

What is ridiculous?  Fans throwing beer on a player is not okay, under any circumstance. 

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21 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

What is ridiculous?  Fans throwing beer on a player is not okay, under any circumstance. 

it’s beer. 

the player jumped into the stands. 

i must officially be old now.  

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5 hours ago, ghostguy123 said:

Then just dont ever respond to my posts ever again, because most are not of the super serious variety.

We were not prepared.  Deal with it.

Honestly didn't think you trolled your team's thread as much as you say you do.

 

Deal with it?  lol ok.  Prove your lazy take.  I could be convinced.

Edited by Bobcat10

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27 minutes ago, amnesiac said:

it’s beer. 

the player jumped into the stands. 

i must officially be old now.  

Apparently he posted video on Twitter and tagged the NFL or something.  He dug his own grave.  But really, how is this enforced?  It's not like he's a minority owner with a known face (Golden State Warrior dude).

Will the player get fined is my question?  Jumping into the stands in an away game probably doesn't go over well with the league or PA.  

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2 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

What does this even mean?

Hmm, this seems like a serious post.

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13 minutes ago, Bobcat10 said:

Apparently he posted video on Twitter and tagged the NFL or something.  He dug his own grave.  But really, how is this enforced?  It's not like he's a minority owner with a known face (Golden State Warrior dude).

Will the player get fined is my question?  Jumping into the stands in an away game probably doesn't go over well with the league or PA.  

didn’t hear that part.  that is dumb. 

still, it’s beer. which gets poured on the Browns players. in the stands. 

to be clear, i do not condone anything being thrown on the field. 

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Wow. It has to suck to be so hyped up about all the high expectations and people talking Super Bowl and then have that first game as a fan. 

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Just now, Chadstroma said:

Wow. It has to suck to be so hyped up about all the high expectations and people talking Super Bowl and then have that first game as a fan. 

thanks for the condolences. 

it means a lot.  

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14 minutes ago, amnesiac said:

didn’t hear that part.  that is dumb. 

still, it’s beer. which gets poured on the Browns players. in the stands. 

to be clear, i do not condone anything being thrown on the field. 

I have no idea if that's true but there's video all over I'm seeing now.  Logan posted something too and tagged the league.  JT tweeted it's a violation to jump into opponents stands.

Actually just watched the video for the first time since it was live.  All day I've heard he jumped up by Tenn fans, looks like that's false to me.  I see one Tenn jersey fan and the dude has to book it across the row to get to where the players were. 

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I do think the league should do something about all of these players doing the Lambeau Leap, especially in opposing stadiums, but it's still not okay for fans to throw beer on ones who do. 

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11 hours ago, Ghost Rider said:

I do think the league should do something about all of these players doing the Lambeau Leap, especially in opposing stadiums, but it's still not okay for fans to throw beer on ones who do. 

Agreed. What a waste of beer.

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Armando Salguero‏Verified account @ArmandoSalguero

Adam Gase just announced to NY media QB Sam Darnold will miss Monday's game with mono and will be out several weeks.

7:33 AM - 12 Sep 2019

------------------------------------

Manish Mehta‏Verified account @MMehtaNYDN

Le’Veon Bell will get a MRI today for his sore shoulder today. Gase seems optimistic

7:36 AM - 12 Sep 2019

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3 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Armando Salguero‏Verified account @ArmandoSalguero

Adam Gase just announced to NY media QB Sam Darnold will miss Monday's game with mono and will be out several weeks.

7:33 AM - 12 Sep 2019

------------------------------------

Manish Mehta‏Verified account @MMehtaNYDN

Le’Veon Bell will get a MRI today for his sore shoulder today. Gase seems optimistic

7:36 AM - 12 Sep 2019

Just coming to post the same thing.  Should make Monday a little more bearable.  Darnold's backup is Trevor Simeon, with Luke Falk backing him up.  Needless to say, NYJ will be combing the FA Pool for another backup QB if Darnold is going to miss "several" weeks.

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3 minutes ago, Peak said:

Just coming to post the same thing.  Should make Monday a little more bearable.  Darnold's backup is Trevor Simeon, with Luke Falk backing him up.  Needless to say, NYJ will be combing the FA Pool for another backup QB if Darnold is going to miss "several" weeks.

Simeon did 'ok' when thrust into the starting role in Denver and don't forget who the Jets have as their DC, Greg Williams.

He knows the Browns offense inside and out and must be licking his chops after seeing the O-Line give up the same amount of sacks in one game as we gave up in the last eight games last year.   He also knows Freddie's offensive tendencies.

 

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Just now, Bracie Smathers said:

Simeon did 'ok' when thrust into the starting role in Denver and don't forget who the Jets have as their DC, Greg Williams.

He knows the Browns offense inside and out and must be licking his chops after seeing the O-Line give up the same amount of sacks in one game as we gave up in the last eight games last year.   He also knows Freddie's offensive tendencies.

 

I'm thinking Simeon hasn't had much time with the NYJ first string offense, outside of this week.  Also, he did "ok" with Denver - but look who he had catching/running the ball.  Big drop in talent from DEN to NYJ.

Overall stats...Siemian has started 24 games in his career and thrown for 5,686 yards, 30 touchdowns and 24 interceptions while completing 59.3% of his passes.

If Bell is out, Ty Montgomery will get the call to replace him.  Williams' defense will play tough, but also on the edge.  Baker also played against the GW Defense in practice, so he may recall a few tendencies as well.  I don't see NYJ offense being a problem for the CLE defense, but I do agree in that the GW familiarity will make things a little harder on Kitchens/Baker on offense.  I only hope that the addition of Monken as OC places the wildcard element on CLE's side of the equation.

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1 hour ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Simeon did 'ok' when thrust into the starting role in Denver and don't forget who the Jets have as their DC, Greg Williams.

He knows the Browns offense inside and out and must be licking his chops after seeing the O-Line give up the same amount of sacks in one game as we gave up in the last eight games last year.   He also knows Freddie's offensive tendencies.

Gregggg doesn't do adaption. I have a whole lot more faith in Freddie exploiting his tendencies than I do him exploiting Freddie's. I can already see Baker flicking passes to Chief while Gregggg has Quinnen Williams inexplicably dropping into coverage. Don't miss those days. Just hope better ones are ahead...

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OBJ.: Gregg Williams Told Browns Players to 'Take Me Out' During Preseason Game

Quote

Browns wide receiver Odell Beckham Jr. said Thursday that Jets defensive coordinator Gregg Williams coaches "dirty plays and cheap shots."

Brian Costello‏Verified account @BrianCoz

A reporter referred to Odell as "one of the most dynamic players in the league." Williams replies: "That's your opinion? What's New York's opinion? The Giants' opinion? What did the Giants do?"

9:59 AM - 13 Sep 2019

-----------------------------------

I hope they just play ball Monday Night.

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27 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

OBJ.: Gregg Williams Told Browns Players to 'Take Me Out' During Preseason Game

Brian Costello‏Verified account @BrianCoz

A reporter referred to Odell as "one of the most dynamic players in the league." Williams replies: "That's your opinion? What's New York's opinion? The Giants' opinion? What did the Giants do?"

9:59 AM - 13 Sep 2019

-----------------------------------

I hope they just play ball Monday Night.

Favorite part of GW's response was him saying that he has "never" had his players go out with the intent to hurt the opposing team's players.  :lmao:

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