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wadegarrett

**** CLEVELAND BROWNS THREAD ****

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1 hour ago, DallasDMac said:

From an ESPN article:

"The Browns are more disorganized than dangerous, and they're one of the season's bigger mysteries when it comes to the up-and-down play of Mayfield and less-than-starry numbers from Beckham. The roster suggests something much finer than a 2-5 start, but the Browns can't get out of their own way -- and it can't be blamed entirely on the offensive line. The Patriots are missing people up and down their front five and lack for stars, but they keep Tom Brady safe game after game. Cleveland lacks the weekly preparation and discipline to eliminate mistakes. They might be closer to that Niners team from a season ago, minus the injury excuses. There is the glimmer of a bright future, yes, but nothing comes handed to you on a silver platter in the NFL. Lesser rosters have toppled Cleveland time and again in 2019."

How exactly do they now the bolded?

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17 hours ago, MAC_32 said:

Whhhhhhheeeeeew

Keith Britton‏Verified account @KeithBritton86

.@CharlesRobinson on Yahoo! Sports NFL Podcast “The Cleveland #Browns are furious w/ the Washington Redskins over Trent Williams.” Says 6 wks ago, Redskins could’ve had 1st rd pk for Williams from CLE. WASH waited 6 wks, CLE basically said “kiss my ###, you’re not calling me now”

4:36 AM - 30 Oct 2019

-----------------------------------

LA‏ @TheRealLA__

Takes two to tango and the GM wasn't up to be violated

4:52 PM - 29 Oct 2019

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On 10/14/2019 at 10:03 AM, Bracie Smathers said:

...the offense drifted away from 12 personnel which was their most effective offensive set last year but by adding the big-play WR it takes from key pass-pro personnel. 

The QBs are not only asked to do different things the offenses are constructed different.  OBJ forces teams to bracket him which is a very-good thing.  Chubb can go house on any carry so that forces outside contain.  Baker has strengths but the goals are different, the philosophy is different.  Every team is a puzzle but a rookie HC/play caller trying to figure it out.  I don't think it should be as difficult and I don't think the numbers should be as awful.   

Warren Sharp‏Verified account @SharpFootball Oct 29

Browns YTD passing splits:

  • From 11: 37% success, 7.1 YPA, 9% sack rate From 12: 62% success, 10.8 YPA, 3% sack rate

Browns YTD rushing splits:

  • From 11: 38% success, 5.0 YPC From 12: 48% success, 6.4 YPC

YTD usage of 12 personnel: Passing: 12% Rushing: 30% Overall: 19% of plays

Warren Sharp‏Verified account @SharpFootball Oct 29

Freddie Kitchens had all season plus the bye to look at these numbers. If he hasn't figured it out by now, he either isn't being presented the data or doesn't think it matters. The Browns are substantially better from 12 than they are from 11 & yet he continues to overuse 11.

6:42 AM - 29 Oct 2019

-----------------------------------

See chart breaking it down in easy to see format 👉 >>>  Chart of 11 VS 12 personnel effectiveness    👀

Edited by Bracie Smathers
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53 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Keith Britton‏Verified account @KeithBritton86

.@CharlesRobinson on Yahoo! Sports NFL Podcast “The Cleveland #Browns are furious w/ the Washington Redskins over Trent Williams.” Says 6 wks ago, Redskins could’ve had 1st rd pk for Williams from CLE. WASH waited 6 wks, CLE basically said “kiss my ###, you’re not calling me now”

4:36 AM - 30 Oct 2019

-----------------------------------

LA‏ @TheRealLA__

Takes two to tango and the GM wasn't up to be violated

4:52 PM - 29 Oct 2019

I'm losing confidence in Dorsey. I have no qualms with using 2020's #1 on an offensive tackle, but pick one in their early 20's.Then use the $15 mil that Williams would have commanded to sign a bridge to the rookie you choose.

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2 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

I'm losing confidence in Dorsey. I have no qualms with using 2020's #1 on an offensive tackle, but pick one in their early 20's.Then use the $15 mil that Williams would have commanded to sign a bridge to the rookie you choose.

Think back a month and a half ago.

Tennessee had just blown up our offensive line and dominated them sacking Baker as many times in the  first game as he had in the last eight from 2018.  We lose 43 to 13 in an outright embarrassing loss.  

Dorsey was 'likely' thinking a 6 time Pro Bowl LT would protect Baker's bind side which would improve the timing with OBJ and put us in favorable game scripts and that first would be nowhere near a top-ten pick (today we would be picking #6 in 2020 NFL draft).  

Who knows if Trent Williams deal could have been done at that time?  I think we 'could' have at least two more Ws because we let at least two get away from us and we may have 3 more wins if the deal could have gotten done when it meant something.

It became foolish soon after the initial contact, not recently BUT six weeks ago it was a different set of outcomes.   

At this point I have no idea what we can even hope for because I don't see Kitchens turning into the next coming of Paul Brown or even the next Butch Davis.

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The Browns without Trent Williams are 2-5. The Browns with Trent Williams would also be 2-5.

This team's offensive tackles are not good, but they're also not the reason this team is 2-5. Baker's problems with the line early in the season had little to do with his protection. It was him dropping too deep in the pocket, ball patting, then drifting right until he ended up in the pressure. He's managed the pocket well 3 of the last 4 games. In those 3 games he was sacked once against Baltimore, none against Seattle, and only two of the five against New England happened while the game was still in doubt - neither of which had anything to do with one of the tackles.

Dorsey identifying tackle as such a great need on this team in September that he felt it compelled sacrificing our future #1 and 50% of our projected available salary cap space in 2020 is a self scouting mistake. I don't expect any GM to be perfect, but there are some miscalculations you just can't make. That was it. And no I don't feel good that Washington's incompetence saved Dorsey from himself. Because it leaves me unconfident about what he will or won't do in the future.

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4 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

The Browns without Trent Williams are 2-5. The Browns with Trent Williams would also be 2-5.

This team's offensive tackles are not good, but they're also not the reason this team is 2-5. Baker's problems with the line early in the season had little to do with his protection. It was him dropping too deep in the pocket, ball patting, then drifting right until he ended up in the pressure. He's managed the pocket well 3 of the last 4 games. In those 3 games he was sacked once against Baltimore, none against Seattle, and only two of the five against New England happened while the game was still in doubt - neither of which had anything to do with one of the tackles.

Dorsey identifying tackle as such a great need on this team in September that he felt it compelled sacrificing our future #1 and 50% of our projected available salary cap space in 2020 is a self scouting mistake. I don't expect any GM to be perfect, but there are some miscalculations you just can't make. That was it. And no I don't feel good that Washington's incompetence saved Dorsey from himself. Because it leaves me unconfident about what he will or won't do in the future.

Baker was/is feeling pressure because HE'S FACED PRESSURE and the raw sack stats prove he's faced pressure so I don't have an opinion that he's faced pressure I have proof with data.  

T-Williams isn't a prospect or a project he's legit six-time Pro Bowl LT.  Insert him and move G-Rob to RG where he belongs and the O-Line sack stats change.  

Kitchens is in charge of how he lines people up and he's stubbornly sticking to 11 personnel which favors a blind-side protector who gives consistent pass-pro so you don't have to keep the TE in to help or chip.  

Kitchens isn't doing it with what he's got to work with.  He's trying to force-fit his personnel into his system and it hasn't worked.  

At least he won''t have the schedule excuse the rest of the season.

--------

Evaluating Team Performance At The Season’s Midway Point BY WARREN SHARP|OCT 30, 2019

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His sack totals are up because of a) his own mistakes and b) 4th quarter desperation. 3 of the 5 against New England were after the game was no longer in doubt. 2 of the 5 against Tennessee, same thing. Only 1 of the 4 against the Niners. 29% of his sacks happened after the game no longer mattered. Baker is not facing an unusual amount of pressure, this team is middle of the pack in adjusted sack rate. His raw numbers are high because we're playing from behind against good teams and he managed the pocket like a moron throughout the first 5 weeks of the season.

In no world am I arguing Trent Williams is not good. Or that our tackles are good. I've very clearly said the opposite. I'm saying the means to acquire him do not justify the net impact he would have on this team. Offensive tackle play is not in the top 10 reasons why we are losing.

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2 hours ago, MAC_32 said:

The Browns without Trent Williams are 2-5. The Browns with Trent Williams would also be 2-5.

This team's offensive tackles are not good, but they're also not the reason this team is 2-5. Baker's problems with the line early in the season had little to do with his protection. It was him dropping too deep in the pocket, ball patting, then drifting right until he ended up in the pressure. He's managed the pocket well 3 of the last 4 games. In those 3 games he was sacked once against Baltimore, none against Seattle, and only two of the five against New England happened while the game was still in doubt - neither of which had anything to do with one of the tackles.

Dorsey identifying tackle as such a great need on this team in September that he felt it compelled sacrificing our future #1 and 50% of our projected available salary cap space in 2020 is a self scouting mistake. I don't expect any GM to be perfect, but there are some miscalculations you just can't make. That was it. And no I don't feel good that Washington's incompetence saved Dorsey from himself. Because it leaves me unconfident about what he will or won't do in the future.

Wasn't one of the main reasons he was let go in KC was because he put them into cap hell?  

Edited by Bobcat10

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58 minutes ago, Bobcat10 said:

Wasn't one of the main reasons he was let go in KC was because he put them into cap hell?  

If I remember right I don't think KC was ever in cap hell. I think he extended contracts at inopportune times for the team's sake and as a result had several over-pay's on the roster. They were always up against the cap, but it never hindered movement. I'm willing to deal with that, every GM has warts. Self scouting mishaps are unacceptable though. Can't win in this league if you can't assess your own house.

But if I'm mistaken on the cap hell part please redirect.

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to be fair, Grossi always came off as kind of a #### to me.  

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19 hours ago, Bobcat10 said:

Wasn't one of the main reasons he was let go in KC was because he put them into cap hell?  

Cap helled  their way to the AFC championship game with great draft picks and some free agent overpays.

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1 hour ago, MAC_32 said:

Uhh...kind of?

trying to be nice.  it’s still early. 

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2 hours ago, amnesiac said:

to be fair, Grossi always came off as kind of a #### to me.  

Yea but that's you. You're a little abrasive and frankly, I'm not sure too many of us really like you either. We tolerate you is probably a good way to think about it :D

Tony's a #####', has never cared for Mayfield and was goading him yesterday but...BUT Mayfield didn't need to take his ball and go home. He's young, he's brash, blah, blah, blah. Don't do stupid ####. Matter of fact there hsould be a big ####### sign in the locker room that reads DON'T DO STUPID ####.

Edited by beer 30

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2 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

Yea but that's you. You're a little abrasive and frankly, I'm not sure too many of us really like you either. We tolerate you is probably a good way to think about it :D

Tony's a #####', has never cared for Mayfield and was goading him yesterday but...BUT Mayfield didn't need to take his ball and go home. He's young, he's brash, blah, blah, blah. Don't do stupid ####. Matter of fact there hsould be a big ####### sign in the locker room that reads DON'T DO STUPID ####.

they should hire you as an assistant coach.  

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Just now, MAC_32 said:

the record going into the bye stunk.  
 

the Browns, despite the weird three turnovers in three plays, didn’t quit and played hard in New England.  the end result was not unexpected.  
 

ALL of this (the BS narratives) goes away if they start winning.  but they have to start this weekend in Denver.  otherwise this is going to get ugly.  
 

they then have three winnable games at home. they could have a winning record at the end of that home stand at 6-5.  

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2 minutes ago, amnesiac said:

the record going into the bye stunk.  
 

the Browns, despite the weird three turnovers in three plays, didn’t quit and played hard in New England.  the end result was not unexpected.  
 

ALL of this (the BS narratives) goes away if they start winning.  but they have to start this weekend in Denver.  otherwise this is going to get ugly.  
 

they then have three winnable games at home. they could have a winning record at the end of that home stand at 6-5.  

Pretty much - we could go out to Denver, implode, and have a new coach Monday. I don't think that will happen. I think it's more likely we go out there, play angry, and dominate then have those three winnable home games sitting in front of us with a massive chip on their collective shoulders. We match up very well with them and from the outside it doesn't appear this team has lost their way, as you eluded to. I'm not dismissing the possibility though. This team is where it is because of whatever is going on neck-up from many key parties. So putting trust into them to suddenly get right would be baseless. 3 days from now we'll see if the trend gets bucked.

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8 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

Pretty much - we could go out to Denver, implode, and have a new coach Monday. I don't think that will happen. I think it's more likely we go out there, play angry, and dominate then have those three winnable home games sitting in front of us with a massive chip on their collective shoulders. We match up very well with them and from the outside it doesn't appear this team has lost their way, as you eluded to. I'm not dismissing the possibility though. This team is where it is because of whatever is going on neck-up from many key parties. So putting trust into them to suddenly get right would be baseless. 3 days from now we'll see if the trend gets bucked.

i agree, it really could go either way.  
 

they have to win this weekend, or the #### is going to hit the fan.  

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Which is exactly why no one should click. Doing so enables more of the same. 

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1 minute ago, MAC_32 said:

Which is exactly why no one should click. Doing so enables more of the same. 

i could hear you saying this as i considered clicking on it. decided not to.  

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1 hour ago, beer 30 said:

Link to Grossi's article https://thelandondemand.com/news/2019/oct/31/backstory-why-baker-mayfields-podium-walk-not-good/

He kindly dropped the pay to click requirement for this one. I assume because he is enjoying national attention for the first time in a decade...or two.

He's getting crushed locally (Baker is taking his too) and I have to imagine TLOD doesn't have many subs.  Assuming he's playing the victim here and he's got to get his garbage spread.  Could have likely been plan B of the master plan all along.  Plan A was to start a Baker / Freddie feud.  

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What the heck is going on with the DB injuries in practice this year?

First it was starting CB Denzel Ward AND starting CB Greedy Williams both going down with hamstring injuries on the same day where both were out for over a month and now this happened yesterday where S Eric Murray injured his knee and underwent surgery.

THREE defensive backs going down with injuries in one season is bad but the season is at the halfway point. 

What the heck?

Browns notebook: Safety Eric Murray undergoes knee surgery

Quote

Browns safety Eric Murray suffered a knee injury in Wednesday’s practice and had surgery on Friday.

The Browns announced the surgery, performed by Dr. James Voos at University Hospitals, was successful. Murray’s return to play status will be evaluated on a week-by-week basis, according to the team...

These guys take enough punishment during games without having to worry about losing time in practice.  

I hope someone in the media picks up on this and asks why practices have been causing serious injuries to out defensive backfield because the number and severity of injuries our DBs have been suffering in practice this year is ridiculous.

Edited by Bracie Smathers

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9 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

What the heck is going on with the DB injuries in practice this year?

First it was starting CB Denzel Ward AND starting CB Greedy Williams both going down with hamstring injuries on the same day where both were out for over a month and now this happened yesterday where S Eric Murray injured his knee and underwent surgery.

THREE defensive backs going down with injuries in one season is bad but the season is at the halfway point. 

What the heck?

Browns notebook: Safety Eric Murray undergoes knee surgery

These guys take enough punishment during games without having to worry about losing time in practice.  

I hope someone in the media picks up on this and asks why practices have been causing serious injuries to out defensive backfield because the number and severity of injuries our DBs have been suffering in practice this year is ridiculous.

Sometimes it just happens that way with no underlying reason. The Eagles are starting their 4 first-team players in the secondary this week for the first time since week 3 of last year (23 games). over that time period, they have started 16 different players in the secondary.

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54 minutes ago, dhockster said:

Sometimes it just happens that way with no underlying reason. The Eagles are starting their 4 first-team players in the secondary this week for the first time since week 3 of last year (23 games). over that time period, they have started 16 different players in the secondary.

Were ALL of those  absences from injuries suffered in PRACTICE?

The Browns have had injuries to every DB in games except for both starting CBs who both were injured in practice.

Murray started three games and was productive.

He did not  suffer his injury during a game.

He along with both starting corners suffered their injuries in PRACTICE.

Over  3 months of missed games to starters from injuries in PRACTICE.

The Browns have had other injuries to DBs from injuries suffered in actual games but the bulk of missed games this year have come from injuries suffered in PRACTICE.

maybe its a common occurrence for every team to lose starting DBs from injuries suffered in practice but I doubt it because I've never  heard of this many injuries happening in practice to one unit like the defensive backfield.  

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17 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Were ALL of those  absences from injuries suffered in PRACTICE?

The Browns have had injuries to every DB in games except for both starting CBs who both were injured in practice.

Murray started three games and was productive.

He did not  suffer his injury during a game.

He along with both starting corners suffered their injuries in PRACTICE.

Over  3 months of missed games to starters from injuries in PRACTICE.

The Browns have had other injuries to DBs from injuries suffered in actual games but the bulk of missed games this year have come from injuries suffered in PRACTICE.

maybe its a common occurrence for every team to lose starting DBs from injuries suffered in practice but I doubt it because I've never  heard of this many injuries happening in practice to one unit like the defensive backfield.  

Sorry Bracie..can’t help reading this post in Allen Iverson’s voice...

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23 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Were ALL of those  absences from injuries suffered in PRACTICE?

The Browns have had injuries to every DB in games except for both starting CBs who both were injured in practice.

Murray started three games and was productive.

He did not  suffer his injury during a game.

He along with both starting corners suffered their injuries in PRACTICE.

Over  3 months of missed games to starters from injuries in PRACTICE.

The Browns have had other injuries to DBs from injuries suffered in actual games but the bulk of missed games this year have come from injuries suffered in PRACTICE.

maybe its a common occurrence for every team to lose starting DBs from injuries suffered in practice but I doubt it because I've never  heard of this many injuries happening in practice to one unit like the defensive backfield.  

I don't know when all the injuries to the Eagles secondary occurred, but my guess is most occurred during games. So I see your point that perhaps the Browns are doing something in practice to cause injuries to their DBs. But why would it just be happening to the DBs and not other players?

Maybe the DB's should stop beating each others ankles with baseball bats during practice. That might be the issue.

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I dont think it's good practice to make assumptions about what specifically may have caused grade two hamstrings. 

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1 hour ago, MAC_32 said:

I dont think it's good practice to make assumptions about what specifically may have caused grade two hamstrings. 

(Reckless Speculation:)

i assumed Ward and Williams were having a race and that’s how they pulled theirs. 
 

remember when Donte Stallworth split Braylon Edwards’ heel open?

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Nick Chubb continues to lead RBs in breaking tackles

Browns place DT Daniel Ekuale on injured reserve, promote TE Stephen Carlson

Could Drew Forbes be playing center when he returns from I.R.?

LINK

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I expect the Browns to still win this division if they can beat Baltimore at home and I expect them to do it.

I am calling my shot the Browns still win this division and still make the playoffs.

Write it down it's going to happen folks.

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53 minutes ago, Dez said:

I expect the Browns to still win this division if they can beat Baltimore at home and I expect them to do it.

I am calling my shot the Browns still win this division and still make the playoffs.

Write it down it's going to happen folks.

You do realize you entered the domain of Soulfly right? We're pretty numb to empty promises and unfounded optimism.

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Before the season began, if you told me they'd have a winning record after week 8 I wouldn't have believed you

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1 hour ago, DallasDMac said:

You do realize you entered the domain of Soulfly right? We're pretty numb to empty promises and unfounded optimism.

Except for the past 20 years I have never once believed the Browns could make the playoffs.  This year is different and while it got off to a horrific start I see the talent in this team and if Baker can just improve his play this team has a chance.

The schedule was brutally tough to start the year but is now a lot more favorable.

The Denver game is a must get with Flacco out.

Home to the Bills will be tough but this is a team they have to beat at home if they are the team I expect them to be.

They proved their ability when they went into Baltimore and man handled this 5 win team.  They were never going to win at NE and they had a great shot to beat Seattle.  The Tennessee game hurts but they imploded that one.

I still believe.

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The schedule may be lighter, but the Browns still have two opponents each week - the team they're playing and themselves. 

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15 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

The schedule may be lighter, but the Browns still have two opponents each week - the team they're playing and themselves. 

for sure.  
 

but for better or worse, i think this team with Mayfield will be streaky.  IF they can get on a roll, anything is truly possible. 

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The kid couldn't it so back to the default.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Greg Robinson to Start Against Broncos

Quote

 

Per a report from ESPN's Josina Anderson, the Cleveland Browns intend to put Greg Robinson back in the starting lineup at left tackle. Robinson was benched coming out of the bye week in favor of Justin McCray, who played against the New England Patriots.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ig: josinaanderson‏Verified account @JosinaAnderson

I'm told the current plan is for Greg Robinson to regain his starting spot at LT for the #Browns today at Denver, as of this tweet, per source. Last week Justin McCray started vs the #Patriots.

6:57 AM - 3 Nov 2019

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In what seems to be an effort to motivate Robinson to put forth more effort, the Browns opted to play McCray against the Patriots. He played hard, brought everything he had, but the results weren't particularly good. Robinson simply has more talent to offer and the Browns desperately need to get a win against the Denver Broncos.

...More than anything, this move confirms the fact the Browns don't have an answer at left tackle on the roster this year and the meaningful move is coming in the upcoming offseason. For the moment, this is their best option at left tackle ...

...Robinson might not be the only move coming. The team may also have Wyatt Teller continue to take more reps at right guard over Eric Kush. Teller is a better run blocker and if he can put up a similar effort in pass protection, there's little downside to the move.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, The Man With No Name said:

Nice takling. Who was the first one that just used his shoulder, no hands, arms?

Dorsey drafts DBs that can’t tackle, then fans are surprised when the secondary can’t make a tackle.  

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also not sure who the first player was.  i'm sure it will be on the highlights. 

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51 minutes ago, amnesiac said:

also not sure who the first player was.  i'm sure it will be on the highlights. 

Whitehead, the league leader in missed tackles. 

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I take it all back.  This team is awful we can't beat a back up QB who has never started a game before.  They can't get a 4th and 1 how about running Chubb idiots ?

This coaching staff is terrible and trading away their big offensive line piece was a huge mistake.  Getting Vernon for the DL wasn't worth losing your best Offensive lineman.

This team was good the 2nd half of last year Baker was good the OL was actually good hardly letting any pressure or sacks but this year a complete disaster.

This was a game you had to win you add Beckham to a team that was good last year to end the year and it turns to crap.

This entire coaching staff has to go.

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Embarrassing. 

And that was a horrendous spot. Might as well nix instant replay in full, it’s been a joke this year. 

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9 minutes ago, Bobcat10 said:

Embarrassing. 

And that was a horrendous spot. Might as well nix instant replay in full, it’s been a joke this year. 

yeah that was bad. 

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If Browns had kicked 2 FG's they would be up 25-24 right now but brutal you can't make a 1st down.

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4 minutes ago, Dez said:

If Browns had kicked 2 FG's they would be up 25-24 right now but brutal you can't make a 1st down.

Don't worry, this circus would have found some other way to blow it. 

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