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Cleveland Browns (15 Viewers)
- Thread starter wadegarrett
- Start date
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Hmnn. Timing late last night after I threw out his name here and also mentioned Pete Smith, coincidence?
Someone tweeted Kubiak to Pete Smith and he gave it a backhand endorsement.
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Pete Smith @_PeteSmith_
I don't hate it.
Edwin Hissa @EdwinHissa
This has nothing to do with defense but..... I would love to see Mayfield in a Kubiak offense
9:39 PM · Dec 11, 2019·
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The reason I mentioned Kubiak is because of the slide-zone blocking schemes he's been entrenched in and has used that fit the personnel on our O-Line and how he uses boots and rolls with his quarterback. He helped to make Jake Pummer a 'decent' QB. His blocking schemes would fit Chubb and Hunt if we keep him.
I was/am surprised Kubiak hasn't gotten more play. He seems the perfect fit for the Browns current personnel and we could keep Wilks and the ST coaches. He'd step in and control the room. Makes too much sense so I wouldn't be surprised if we went in the complete opposite direction and came away with a guy whose scheme doesn't fit, who wasn't a HC who wasn't a former player, etc.
Well, at least Pete Smith doesn't hate it.
rockaction
Footballguy
I'd shoot myself if I had another long, pronounced debate with a squistion alias who happened to be a Cleveland fan.
Careul MAC, you'll wind up reported. That is all.
Careul MAC, you'll wind up reported. That is all.
MAC_32
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
Right or wrong, I never have and never will concern myself with what others are doing. I only have so much time & energy per day. And I will never use any of it to cover my own tracks or walk on eggshells because I'm engaged with someone pushing their own agenda. Stick to the facts and make clear what are opinions then generally good things happen. I'm only concerned with doing what I think is right. I don't always make the right decision, but it's
beer 30
Footballguy
Carolina was blessed with Cam Newton and his every other year bid for league MVP. Without him they would be Cleveland South.
MAC_32
Footballguy
This is true, but my opinion on 2020 Rivera is not driven by that - it's driven by what I said about McCarthy, Rex, and Gase earlier. Retreads can work, but I think you need to give them time to re-assess so they can (potentially) return better than they were before. Make a move now and their previous weaknesses that contributed to them losing their previous job will carry-over to the new job. They could be successful anyway (Andy Reid comes to mind), but I think it's more exception than rule.
Carolina was blessed with Cam Newton and his every other year bid for league MVP. Without him they would be Cleveland South.
DallasDMac
Footballguy
Given the numbers of posts in this thread alone the past two pages, it doesn't really seem to limited.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Given the numbers of posts in this thread alone the past two pages, it doesn't really seem to limited.
Not what I was referring to, but - yeah, guilty. 
amnesiac
beer is good
i think you have to have pretty thick skin to be a Cleveland fan. most of us can disagree without getting wound too tight.
rockaction
Footballguy
I was being colloquial and facetious. Smathers loves to post the Twitter in format aa some sort of truth when it' s all opinions or unsourced.I have no idea what you are talking about. I debated you with an alias and claimed to be a Cleveland fan?
beer 30
Footballguy
I'd like to know what Monken's involvement with the offense is because if I'm Freddie, I'd go back to what I was running last year. If what we saw last year really was Haley's offense but opened up then why not dust that #### off and go for it? Whatever this is, hasn't taken with the QB & WR's. The RB's seem to be enjoying a good year but as I've said, it feels like they are fighting to get touches in this offense. I know the numbers don't support that but the optics of it.
just don't know if this Monken's doing, Freddie's doing or a collaboration of both.
Peak
Footballguy
I've been ready for Monken to go. Bring in an established OC, one that may have been a HC at some point. Someone that can help Freddie along. I think FK/Dorsey should also bring in a Sr Advisor to help FK grow as a HC. Both of those kind of hires would help. Both moves would give FK no choice but to learn and grow. Then there would be no excuses for FK.
It's all Monken causing this mess. See my post on the previous page when Monken makes stupid statements when he was coaching the Bucs. If I interviewed this guy and he said that, the interview would be over immediately. Just like the Bengals changed blocking schemes to start the season with new coaches, then someone told them how to fix it (scrap what you are doing cause Mixon runs best in the scheme they ran las year) the Browns made a mistake and need to correct it.
DallasDMac
Footballguy
From the NFL.com weekly wrap up:
CBS color commentator Jay Feely said the Browns looked "uninspired, they haven't played hard, haven't played physical" and he's correct. In a game they needed to win or else, they wilted, and the postseason book all but closed on them. How the Browns finish their final month might influence the organization's direction come January. They didn't look too good in that department Sunday.
CBS color commentator Jay Feely said the Browns looked "uninspired, they haven't played hard, haven't played physical" and he's correct. In a game they needed to win or else, they wilted, and the postseason book all but closed on them. How the Browns finish their final month might influence the organization's direction come January. They didn't look too good in that department Sunday.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Not a lot of hot takes just mush.
Baker did not look good. His decision making has been bad and yesterday he .... Just bad.
The worst pass defense in the league, a team who had not given up LESS than 21 points in any single game and we barely eeked out a garbage score at the end. I thought we should have done a lot more considering they can't stop the run either.
Arizona came in as the most sacked team in the league and our depleted pass rush managed zero sacks. We had a 'mush-rush' and weren't pressing but without Myles and Vernon we have next to nothing of a pass rush.
Drake only had one TD all year till yesterday. They made a lot of big plays outside.
Kyler is good, give him credit.
I don't like what Landry did on the sidelines, you don't do that to an NFL head coach. It undermines him, it makes you both look bad and is completely unnecessary and avoidable.
Joe Schoebert had a bad game. He wasn't alone but he had a bad game.
Nick Chubb could be the NFL rushing leader. The first Cleveland Brown since Leroy Kelly. What he is doing is special. Relish what you are seeing because it might happen and we may not see it again for a long time.
Baker did not look good. His decision making has been bad and yesterday he .... Just bad.
The worst pass defense in the league, a team who had not given up LESS than 21 points in any single game and we barely eeked out a garbage score at the end. I thought we should have done a lot more considering they can't stop the run either.
Arizona came in as the most sacked team in the league and our depleted pass rush managed zero sacks. We had a 'mush-rush' and weren't pressing but without Myles and Vernon we have next to nothing of a pass rush.
Drake only had one TD all year till yesterday. They made a lot of big plays outside.
Kyler is good, give him credit.
I don't like what Landry did on the sidelines, you don't do that to an NFL head coach. It undermines him, it makes you both look bad and is completely unnecessary and avoidable.
Joe Schoebert had a bad game. He wasn't alone but he had a bad game.
Nick Chubb could be the NFL rushing leader. The first Cleveland Brown since Leroy Kelly. What he is doing is special. Relish what you are seeing because it might happen and we may not see it again for a long time.
beer 30
Footballguy
Not going to dwell to long on this mess, far as I'm concerned the season has been over a while now but true to form, there was a sliver of hope left going into Arizona this week. Nobody told the Browns though, they left their heart in Cleveland, boarded a plan for Arizona and quickly quit the minute they stepped on the field. The defense was the first to throw in the towel, then the kicker, eventually the offense acquiesced and finally the coaches tossed in the towel. Then we came out for the third quarter...
I've been a proponent to keep Freddie on but when the team quits like it did yesterday, I'm not sure you can anymore.
What is that? $28m sitting on the bench? 11 min left in the game
Could he try less?
"I don't care about my future as Browns coach." Neither do we Freddie
Bask in all our glory
I've been a proponent to keep Freddie on but when the team quits like it did yesterday, I'm not sure you can anymore.
What is that? $28m sitting on the bench? 11 min left in the game
Could he try less?
"I don't care about my future as Browns coach." Neither do we Freddie
Bask in all our glory
Peak
Footballguy
I'm right there with you. It was pathetic. Watching the game, you would've thought Drake was leading the league in Rushing. What a ridiculous display yesterday. I don't see how they keep FK at this point. If the team that played yesterday shows up next week vs Balt, it'll be a bloodbath. Hell, they'll make Cincy look like a playoff contender by the last week of the season. This was a game they were supposed to win, one they needed to win. Freddie needed the win. Instead, they #### the bed. I just don't see how FK is retained in any capacity.
If they do switch it up, it has to be someone with previous HC experience. This team cannot start next year with another coach who is learning as he goes. This team needs an experienced coach who will have them ready to play week 1. I never thought this team would get to the Playoffs, but man I thought they would've at least had a winning season. Pathetic.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I don't think quit is the right word. Odell and Landry may be on their own agenda at this point and the whole Njoku thing leaves me with my eyebrow raised, but the OL/RB did their job yesterday. As Bracie said, Baker was a mess and I think that influenced the passing game. But the defense? It isn't quit. They just suck. Look who's playing:
Sheldrick Redwine - 100%
Mack Wilson - 100%
Greedy Williams - 100%
Chad Thomas - 77%
Justin Burris - 66%
Porter Gustin - 62%
Bryan Cox - 61%
Eli Ankou - 30%
Rookies, street free agents, and Thomas - and thehn there's Randall who has just been going through the motions (when active ) for weeks. It's not difficult to game plan against this unit.
Sheldrick Redwine - 100%
Mack Wilson - 100%
Greedy Williams - 100%
Chad Thomas - 77%
Justin Burris - 66%
Porter Gustin - 62%
Bryan Cox - 61%
Eli Ankou - 30%
Rookies, street free agents, and Thomas - and thehn there's Randall who has just been going through the motions (when active ) for weeks. It's not difficult to game plan against this unit.
beer 30
Footballguy
They quit man, the only one I saw with any kind of fight in him was Chubb. Even street FA play with intensity, these guys didn't. Hell Schobert is playing for a ####### payday and he looked like a fool yesterday.
I don't know what to do. We know Freddie.
Bobcat10
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
A good friend of mine that coaches football told me a long time ago that if you want to get a sense of the LB play then watch the DL. I'm not absolving Schobert yesterday, I'd need to re-watch and more succinctly follow him to say one way or the other. But the DL was pushed off the ball without much resistance. Over and over again. Linebacker's are not in position to make plays when the OL gets a push like that.
Todem
Footballguy
That is correct. When your DL is playing well...it is disrupting the rhythm of the play which allows LB's to come in and clean up. When they are getting handled then the LB's are taking on freight trains coming at them full speed. Pretty simple concept.
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beer 30
Footballguy
Very true but that wasn't what I was referring to. I don't have time to dig up game film, it will be out this week though but Joe was whiffing on tackles a lot, in the open field or simply spinning in place because he didn't have a clue. In short, he didn't look good, had 5 tackles yesterday.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
I've been holding onto this for awhile but when I saw this today I figured it was time to talk about the use of the running game.
This team should gameplan around the run and build everything around it each week
I love how Freddie has been able to scheme both Chubb and Hunt onto the field at the same time, the offsets and motion but hate running from the gun and ???? what was that I saw against the Bengals??? Chubb BEHIND Baker from the gun? Hey, he's trying everything and has shifted away in running from the gun but I'd like to see more Pro Sets with Baker behind center, the-I and they have to continue to get creative in lining up both Chubb and Hunt together but the bottom line is to establish the run first before airing it out.
You 'can' pass to set up the run but look at the metrics of this offense. Baker/passing game/protections have struggled. We don't want to see 40 passing attempts like yesterday till the passing game becomes a strength and right now our passing game is weak as our running game is strong.
Build from strength and run to set up the pass. It will help out every aspect of the offense.
This team should gameplan around the run and build everything around it each week
I agree with everything above but view it as running to set up the pass, i.e., play-action. You have to establish the run first before PA is effective.
I love how Freddie has been able to scheme both Chubb and Hunt onto the field at the same time, the offsets and motion but hate running from the gun and ???? what was that I saw against the Bengals??? Chubb BEHIND Baker from the gun? Hey, he's trying everything and has shifted away in running from the gun but I'd like to see more Pro Sets with Baker behind center, the-I and they have to continue to get creative in lining up both Chubb and Hunt together but the bottom line is to establish the run first before airing it out.
You 'can' pass to set up the run but look at the metrics of this offense. Baker/passing game/protections have struggled. We don't want to see 40 passing attempts like yesterday till the passing game becomes a strength and right now our passing game is weak as our running game is strong.
Build from strength and run to set up the pass. It will help out every aspect of the offense.
MAC_32
Footballguy
^^^That's been my perception too. I've taken exception to the complaints about usage of the backs because...they are. It's the method behind the madness. And the last three weeks especially tell the story. I think it's clear the offense is trying to get ahead through the air then run them to death once out in front. Is it the generally accepted rule in today's game? You bet, a lot of data to support it too - but when applied to this offense this year it's evident it's not working...yet you continue to do it anyway. Why? and regardless of that answer the lack of play action is inexcusable.
beer 30
Footballguy
Maybe in Freddie's mind that stupid ####### inexcusable, ill timed every mother ####### game but we still trot it out shovel pass is his version of play action. They try it once a game, it gets stuffed or worse, Freddie thinks ,"welp, gave it a shot...ok, go deep boys" and here we are?
Spitballing hereWorked great last year, Faked the Bengals right out of their shoes when Mayfield held the ball on his hip. Why don't we see that anymore? Did Baker forget everything he knew? Nope. The Browns got Monkened and Freddie hasn't figured out yet that Monken is his # 1 problem.
beer 30
Footballguy
The Big Donkey
Footballguy
DallasDMac
Footballguy
Random
Footballguy
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Brent Sobleski @brentsobleski
"We know exactly what they're going to do." -- Cardinals DC Vance Joseph regarding #Browns offense.
If that's not an indictment of Kitchens' play-calling, I don't know what is. 1:39 PM - 15 Dec 2019
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TA @ClevTA
Of all the things as to why Freddie needs to go is if his "expertise" is offense how is it that multiple times we have seen opponents say they knew exactly what the Browns were going to run. Just zero creativity or disguise. Predictable https://twitter.com/brentsobleski/status/1206328061471461377?s=20 … 10:12 AM - 16 Dec 2019
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LINK to quote said by at least three other teams the Browns have played: >>>> LINK: Browns play calling = PREDICTABLE
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AdamJB26 @BrownsObsession Seahawks said it, Steelers did too, now the Cardinals, what a joke. 1:42 PM - 15 Dec 2019
strike matis @strikematis And rams players said it 5:02 PM - 15 Dec 2019
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Predictable tendencies with the lack of in-game adjustments.
Edge to anyone playing known tendencies with lack of in-game adjustments.
"We know exactly what they're going to do." -- Cardinals DC Vance Joseph regarding #Browns offense.
If that's not an indictment of Kitchens' play-calling, I don't know what is. 1:39 PM - 15 Dec 2019
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TA @ClevTA
Of all the things as to why Freddie needs to go is if his "expertise" is offense how is it that multiple times we have seen opponents say they knew exactly what the Browns were going to run. Just zero creativity or disguise. Predictable https://twitter.com/brentsobleski/status/1206328061471461377?s=20 … 10:12 AM - 16 Dec 2019
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LINK to quote said by at least three other teams the Browns have played: >>>> LINK: Browns play calling = PREDICTABLE
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AdamJB26 @BrownsObsession Seahawks said it, Steelers did too, now the Cardinals, what a joke. 1:42 PM - 15 Dec 2019
strike matis @strikematis And rams players said it 5:02 PM - 15 Dec 2019
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Predictable tendencies with the lack of in-game adjustments.
Edge to anyone playing known tendencies with lack of in-game adjustments.
beer 30
Footballguy
We've had better, this is probably top 10, maybe top 5 but nowhere near the best.kodycutter said:
So here's my answer to life, the universe and everything. Had an epiphany this morning as I was preparing for another day of doom & gloom regarding the Browns. There is one man that can fix our offensive woes which then translates to making the defense better and by association our HC, whoever that is. Presumably they bring Freddie back but I would do it with the stipulation of he loses every down play calling privileges, they fire Monken and they bring in....wait for it....wait for it....
Norv Turner
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Godsbrother
Footballguy
I believe this is correct. The Browns can still make the playoffs if:
Browns win out
Colts win out
Titans and Steelers lose out
Browns win out
Colts win out
Titans and Steelers lose out
Bobcat10
Footballguy
Might be correct, but there is no chance of this happening, let alone the Browns winning 2 more games. They're going to be 6-10.
daveR
Footballguy
So... Freddie's "too cute" and "not creative enough". He doesn't run the ball enough, and doesn't get it to Landry & Beckham enough. FWIW, of the 65 offensive plays yesterday, Chubb and/or Hunt got the ball 34 times. Landry/Beckham 22. TE 7. Also, FWIW, Chubb had runs of 1,1,1,1,1,1,2,3,4,5,5,5,6,12,17,29,33.
1 yard runs are because the other team knows the play. Monken and kitchens need to go.
Damn right., they fire Monken and they bring in....wait for it....wait for it....
Norv Turner
Pathetic and its as obvious that the other team knows the play because they are on the receivers like glue. When the other team knows where the receiver is going, the OC sucks.
Peak
Footballguy
The next two weeks are going to be painful, so just set your expectations extremely low Browns fans.
Freddie and staff aren't going anywhere until after the final game, at the earliest. The Ravens will destroy this team, and the Bengals may very well get one more win to add to their season total during week 17.
There is no leadership, either on the staff or from the team. Players are openly frustrated and losing any buy-in on the team they once had previously. Chubb and Hunt are trying to keep this thing afloat this year, but I'm afraid it's too little too late.
Whoever they bring in next needs to bring a level of confidence, control and leadership. Freddie became too much of a player's coach, and now they aren't taking him seriously. Had they won a few more games, then maybe all would be better. You know what they say, winning cures what ails ya. Well, now they're not winning, they're frustrated, and lost confidence in the team and what they are doing on the field.
My expectations over the next two games include even more dumb penalties, players acting out on the field, and more finger-pointing. I may just not watch the last two games and try to enjoy the holidays.
Freddie and staff aren't going anywhere until after the final game, at the earliest. The Ravens will destroy this team, and the Bengals may very well get one more win to add to their season total during week 17.
There is no leadership, either on the staff or from the team. Players are openly frustrated and losing any buy-in on the team they once had previously. Chubb and Hunt are trying to keep this thing afloat this year, but I'm afraid it's too little too late.
Whoever they bring in next needs to bring a level of confidence, control and leadership. Freddie became too much of a player's coach, and now they aren't taking him seriously. Had they won a few more games, then maybe all would be better. You know what they say, winning cures what ails ya. Well, now they're not winning, they're frustrated, and lost confidence in the team and what they are doing on the field.
My expectations over the next two games include even more dumb penalties, players acting out on the field, and more finger-pointing. I may just not watch the last two games and try to enjoy the holidays.
beer 30
Footballguy
beer 30
Footballguy
C'mon @Peak, you suffered through 1-31 and you're going to bail on watching the
? That's the only reason I'm going to watch!And seriously, I want to see how Baker handles it and if there is anyone that steps up and grabs the team by the facemask. I don't anticipate anyone doing that but it would be refreshing if somebody did. I'm also in for the Freddie memes at this point, they get better every week.
Peak
Footballguy
It's tough man....really tough. I used to be optimistic. I had this youthful idealism that anything and everything was possible. By god, tomorrow has to be better! But now I must have lost it. I used to have that youthful bliss of ignorance - that nothing is as bad as it seems. But I've since lost it too. Now I'm just losing my patience. I guess losing is contagious after all. The more I watch, the more I lose.C'mon @Peak, you suffered through 1-31 and you're going to bail on watching the
And seriously, I want to see how Baker handles it and if there is anyone that steps up and grabs the team by the facemask. I don't anticipate anyone doing that but it would be refreshing if somebody did. I'm also in for the Freddie memes at this point, they get better every week.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I bailed on the 1-31's long before now. If I get to the couch by opening kick I will give the Baltimore game a shot, but I'm not prioritizing it and I fully expect to move on with my day by 2 pm. I'd love this team to prove me wrong, but there's really no reason to believe. Nothing positive will come from the final game in Cincy, so I made other plans.C'mon @Peak, you suffered through 1-31 and you're going to bail on watching the
And seriously, I want to see how Baker handles it and if there is anyone that steps up and grabs the team by the facemask. I don't anticipate anyone doing that but it would be refreshing if somebody did. I'm also in for the Freddie memes at this point, they get better every week.
