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wadegarrett

**** CLEVELAND BROWNS THREAD ****

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8 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

PFF CLE Browns‏ @PFF_Browns

#Browns RG Wyatt Teller made our Team of the Week for his performance against the #Bengals. He allowed no pressures in 29 pass blocking snaps, en route to an 88.2 pass blocking grade, tying him with Joel Bitonio for 3rd among 74 qualifying WK14 guards

7:17 AM - 10 Dec 2019

------------------------------------

:thumbup:  We 'might' get rookie OT Drew Forbes back before the end of the season but DORSEY'S trade for Wyatt Teller is looking good.

He was one of the reasons we lost to the Steelers, but since it doesn't fit your Dorsey is great narrative let's ignore that game because it's not convenient for what you want to believe and instead focus on only this game.

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1 minute ago, MAC_32 said:

He was one of the reasons we lost to the Steelers, but since it doesn't fit your Dorsey is great narrative let's ignore that game because it's not convenient for what you want to believe and instead focus on only this game.

Your hate Dorsey game - strong.:coffee:

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1 minute ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Your hate Dorsey game - strong.:coffee:

My only game is the Browns winning. I want us to do whatever maximizes the chances of that happening for a sustained period of time. Everything else is just noise. 

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1 minute ago, MAC_32 said:

My only game is the Browns winning. I want us to do whatever maximizes the chances of that happening for a sustained period of time. Everything else is just noise. 

You indulge in the blame game.

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1 minute ago, Bracie Smathers said:

You indulge in the blame game.

Yes, I am driven by accountability. For example when a right guard has a great game he deserves credit for it. He also deserves criticism when he has a poor game. Unless it doesn't fit your preconceived bias anyway.

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2 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

Yes, I am driven by accountability. For example when a right guard has a great game he deserves credit for it. He also deserves criticism when he has a poor game. Unless it doesn't fit your preconceived bias anyway.

Keeping accountable?  Agendas?

Perspective.  Going after a GM for Freddie's record is an agenda.  Going after a guard when the passing game blew the lead created from a huge play by DORSEY'S talented FA acquisition Hunt.

Their are only so many NFL HCs who provide a positive edge.

GMs provide the biggest piece of the puzzle, franchise QB, or they get fired.  You either have a franchise QB or you don't.  Dorsey has proven his mettle.  He got us the franchise.  You build from that point if your HC can just be a place holder but if you get lucky and you have a great HC then its the championship combo.  GMs don't pint their index finger in the chest of the owner and say we're hiring this coach bud because I'M HMFIC. 

Choosing to go after the GM after he not only got the franchise and a franchise RB and a franchise WR and has filled out the other skill positions in addition to Denzel Ward and Sheldon Richardson is silly. 

The first game showed Freddie was in over his head.  He's improved, we all love him as a person but he does not provide a positive edge.  He's showing who he is and its not a good NFL HC.  No agenda, objectively he's not a good NFL HC.  He was providing a positive edge as an OC but not as a HC.

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11 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Going after a GM for Freddie's record is an agenda. 

Making stuff up is agenda fitting.

11 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Going after a guard

You brought him up. Don't get mad at me for correcting your cherry picking.

12 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

GMs provide the biggest piece of the puzzle, franchise QB, or they get fired.  You either have a franchise QB or you don't.  Dorsey has proven his mettle.  He got us the franchise. 

This is the most important piece...and I think he got the guy. There's also a whole lot more to being a good GM than identifying the franchise QB. 

13 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Choosing to go after the GM after he not only got the franchise and a franchise RB and a franchise WR and has filled out the other skill positions in addition to Denzel Ward and Sheldon Richardson is silly. 

There have been a lot more transactions than just those 5 - I may take this post more seriously if you unpack all of them and not just your cherry picking.

18 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

The first game showed Freddie was in over his head.  He's improved, we all love him as a person but he does not provide a positive edge.  He's showing who he is and its not a good NFL HC.  No agenda, objectively he's not a good NFL HC.  He was providing a positive edge as an OC but not as a HC.

As I have said multiple times before if Freddie gets whacked then he's earned it. That action alone does not leave me thinking any more optimistically about 2020 though. 

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Facts are facts.  Teller did give up at least 2 sacks in the Pitt game.  Was he at RG that game or out of position at tackle?  I can't remember and don't want to look.  Our tackles acted as revolving doors that game. 

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1 minute ago, Bobcat10 said:

Facts are facts.  Teller did give up at least 2 sacks in the Pitt game.  Was he at RG that game or out of position at tackle?  I can't remember and don't want to look.  Our tackles acted as revolving doors that game. 

RG - I believe it was McCray and Hubbard at tackle.

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15 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

This is the most important piece...and I think he got the guy. There's also a whole lot more to being a good GM than identifying the franchise QB. 

Explain your case against Dorsey.  You admit he got the franchise now what is the reason why he's the problem and not Freddie because that is what you have said but failed to make any case.  You won't even say why just because you say so which is not a case.

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5 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Explain your case against Dorsey.  You admit he got the franchise now what is the reason why he's the problem and not Freddie because that is what you have said but failed to make any case.  You won't even say why just because you say so which is not a case.

Jesus, Tony.

23 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

As I have said multiple times before if Freddie gets whacked then he's earned it.

Your inability to read is second only to...

1 hour ago, Bracie Smathers said:

You indulge in the blame game.

...your hypocrisy.

'---

Be better next time.

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6 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

Jesus, Tony.

Your inability to read is second only to...

...your hypocrisy.

'---

Be better next time.

Bad take guy strikes again.  How many pages will your ego allow this time?  Dorsey is responsible? 

Mac lowering the bar in the Sharkpool once again.  Really difficult to go 4th grade.  What's next.  Calling me a poopie head?

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On 12/2/2019 at 12:26 PM, MAC_32 said:

I don't know if Freddie is part of the answer. He's given you plenty of reasons to doubt he is. He's not the source of the problem though. That's Dorsey.

He was given an unprecedented amount of assets and turned it into an interesting collection of talent, but not a team. This is a dumb team and it's not because of the coach. It's the architect that put these pieces together. He created an environment that prioritized youth and volatile personalities. If you want discipline and accountability in your culture then you need veteran glue pieces. This team lacked those. That contributed to the poor start. Then without those glue pieces the whole puzzle came unraveled once enough injuries, mental midgetness, and his blatant misses accumulated.

 

On 12/2/2019 at 9:32 AM, MAC_32 said:

The OL is fine. It's not good enough to play from behind against a unit like that one, but it's effective enough against lesser ones or playing with a lead against better ones. But why has it been exposed against better units? Because Dorsey bet on Corbett and was wrong. He also didn't bring in adequate insurance at TE should something happen to Njoku. Darren Fells isn't anything special, but he's an effective blocker and can make a couple plays in the passing game on occasion. Dorsey's solution (Harris) sucks at both. So the problem at tackle became a bigger problem because he made the positions around it worse. But it's still only a problem when playing from behind against stout pass rush's like Pittsburgh and San Fran, which should not have happened yesterday but the defense imploded.

Moving Peppers was the price of poker, but Dorsey didn't adequately replace him (Burnett) then put that position at peril as it relied on Randall's explosive personality. In an attempt to try to improve that position (Murray) he made the DE depth (Ogbah) worse. Both of those positions were major factors yesterday. As was corner, again. Was it fair to put Greedy in a starting position day one? Maybe not, but he's been an issue all season. A little coincidental that as soon as he leaves the game due to injury his backup creates a turnover. Speaking of rookies, we've needed too much of them at LB because Dorsey didn't bring anything in behind Schobert and Kirksey.

And while all the minions are lazily pointing their finger at Freddie as the problem who is the genius that hired him? John Dorsey's winter 2019. He was given a treasure trove of assets when he was hired and has done a poor job with them. 

 

On 12/1/2019 at 11:12 PM, MAC_32 said:

I've thought the problem started with Dorsey for weeks, but agenda pushing season is about to kick in with the season sunk. The picture will become muddier before it gets clearer, so I want to see what calculated leaks get out (and how) before jumping to any conclusions. I think it's clear Kitchens will be the fall guy, but removing him does not solve the problem and there will be more carnage than just him and Randall. 

 

On 12/2/2019 at 3:41 PM, MAC_32 said:

As much negativity as I have spewed today I actually don't think we are in that bad of shape...if all fronts are on the same page anyway. This is why I mentioned agendas somewhere upstream. This is the time of year that individuals start pressing their own for self preservation purposes. If those aren't apparent over the next month there will be signs for optimism. Need to weather those storms though.

Since I don't like wasting time repeating myself here's a sample from literally the last two weeks when I am clearly just tossing blanket statements without substance criticizing Dorsey. The problem is more nuanced than Dorsey. It's more nuanced than Freddie. I think the problems start with Dorsey. Where do they go from there? I don't know. If you pretend to know then I think you already decided your destination and no facts to the contrary will sway you.

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14 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

I've thought the problem started with Dorsey for weeks,

You've said repeatedly without anything other than... you said.  That isn't a reason.  

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16 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

You've said repeatedly without anything other than... you said.  That isn't a reason.  

I am shocked that you sought out the 9 words that fit your preconceived bias and ignored the other 567.

Shocked.

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16 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

I am shocked that you sought out the 9 words that fit your preconceived bias and ignored the other 567.

Shocked.

Oh yeah.  Unprecedented talent.  Peppers.  I was supposed to pat you on the butt for that?  

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7 hours ago, Bobcat10 said:

Facts are facts.  Teller did give up at least 2 sacks in the Pitt game.  Was he at RG that game or out of position at tackle?  I can't remember and don't want to look.  Our tackles acted as revolving doors that game. 

 Browns gave up 1 sack in the first game. Above average. 5 in the 2nd. Below average

Steelers have 48 sacks this season. Average 3.69 per game. 

Edited by The Man With No Name

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13 hours ago, The Man With No Name said:

 Browns gave up 1 sack in the first game. Above average. 5 in the 2nd. Below average

Steelers have 48 sacks this season. Average 3.69 per game. 

I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me or disputing something.  Pressures can be just as destructive as sacks.  It was not a good day for the tackles.

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1 hour ago, beer 30 said:

I love it when we eat our own :popcorn:

It frustrates me because I don't even think of myself as pro-Freddie. I'm not sure exactly where I am on him, but I see both positives (parallel's to the good traits of Pettine and Butch) and negatives (the bad trait's of Farmer and Shurmur). It's just clear how anti-Freddie everyone is - and they have seemingly been there since October (or sooner). It appears they're taking that negative bias and just fitting what's happened since to that narrative. So I find myself constantly defending him...even though I'm not sure I actually believe it.  It's...weird.

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16 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

It frustrates me because I don't even think of myself as pro-Freddie. I'm not sure exactly where I am on him, but I see both positives (parallel's to the good traits of Pettine and Butch) and negatives (the bad trait's of Farmer and Shurmur). It's just clear how anti-Freddie everyone is - and they have seemingly been there since October (or sooner). It appears they're taking that negative bias and just fitting what's happened since to that narrative. So I find myself constantly defending him...even though I'm not sure I actually believe it.  It's...weird.

:lmao: I hear you. I look at some of the stuff he does and think wtf? But then I try to temper my thoughts with first year HC, overall record not bad (just not what we expected) so I step back and think how do we fix this. I'm not sure who's responsible for the game plan but whoever it is needs to have a sit down at the end of the year and made to throw away whatever book they are working out of. Whether that's Freddie or Monken or a combination, whatever they are doing, stop it. If that means the OC goes and you get somebody else in to take the play calling off Freddie's table, so be it.

I'm just tired of the revolving door at HC. Not buying that McCarthy is the answer but you're going to hear that a ton in the coming months. Rivera is going to the Giants, I'd bet the house on it. If you could pry Josh McDaniels from the Pats I'd listen but I don't think that's happening either (nor would Bill let him come to Cleveland). I think you stick with Freddie and act like adults, have some hard conversations and get this #### right.

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AUDIO LINK  🔊 >>>  Ross Tucker "I'd be shocked if they brought Freddie Kitchens back."

Quote

 

Browns should reach out to Ron Rivera, now that he's available

NFL insider Ross Tucker joins Lead Off to discuss why he doesn't see the Cleveland Browns bringing back head coach Freddie Kitchens, and why they should act fast on Ron Rivera, who just got fired in Carolina.

"Many examples of how he [Kitchens] just doesn't get it. ... He just doesn't get it and it doesn't look like he's ever going to get it so unfortunately I think they are going to move on from him.

I think Ron Rivera would be a great choice.  I really do.  They do need some discipline there...  I think Ron Rivera has some cache.  He's been in the league awhile, he was a former player.  I love the idea of Ron Rivera to the Cleveland Browns."

 

Ross Tucker goes on to say he wouldn't be surprised if we didn't reach out to Ron's people to express an interest but doesn't think we'd fire Freddie with three games left.  He speaks of issues with Baker and OBJ hinting a disciplined HC would not have allowed unnecessary distractions.

---------

Pete Smith has been shading Dorsey so he is trying to get out in front of the 'possibility' of Kitchens being fired with his spin.

Kitchens has hired a great staff so keeping the hire in-house would be good in that we'd keep a very-talented coaching staff intact.  Wilks has done a great job considering all of the injuries he's already overcome and the suspension of his best player.  The ST coach has improved that unit.  We've got a good staff, one of the best since the return.

I think it is too early to start throwing out names or shoveling dirt on Kitchens but since its starting I'll throw out one name that has not surfaced by anyone... Gary Kubiak.  Kubes has great coaching lines from the Shanahan tree, former player, successful as a HC but had to give it up due to a medical condition but he is back healthy and has successful as the OC with Minnesota.  His blocking schemes and how he moves the QB would mesh well with our personnel.  He seems to tic off every box if we move on from Freddie.

Here's Pete's latest.

---------

If Browns Fire Kitchens, Expect a Prearranged Replacement

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I mentioned Rivera above but I'm thinking his ship is sailing to the Giants. He and the GM (Dave Gettlemen) have a long, beautiful history together and Shurmur is gonna, well Shurmur. Just my theory.

In January 2013, Gettleman was chosen to become the General Manager of the Carolina Panthers. In the 2015 season, the Panthers reached Super Bowl 50 on February 7, 2016. The Panthers fell to the Denver Broncos by a score of 24–10. On July 17, 2017, the Panthers relieved him of his duties as General Manager. During Gettleman's tenure as General Manager the Panthers compiled a regular season record of 51-28-1. In that 5-year timeframe the Panthers advanced to the playoffs 4 seasons and won 3 NFC South titles. This is notable because the Panthers have only made the playoffs 8 times in their 24 year history.

And having lived in the Carolina's that entire time, I don't want Rivera running this offense. He'll run the ball to death but you might as well trade away your WR's no and get something for them because they will be wasted in his offense. You're also gonna need a back up QB stat.

Edited by beer 30

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I would be ok with Rivera as long as he bring along Norv Turner. Mayfield would be incredible with him as OC.

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17 hours ago, Bracie Smathers said:

since its starting I'll throw out one name that has not surfaced by anyone... Gary Kubiak.  Kubes has great coaching lines from the Shanahan tree, former player, successful as a HC but had to give it up due to a medical condition but he is back healthy and has successful as the OC with Minnesota.  His blocking schemes and how he moves the QB would mesh well with our personnel.  He seems to tic off every box if we move on from Freddie.

Hmnn.  Timing late last night after I threw out his name here and also mentioned Pete Smith, coincidence?  

Someone tweeted Kubiak to Pete Smith and he gave it a backhand endorsement.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pete Smith @_PeteSmith_

I don't hate it.

Edwin Hissa @EdwinHissa

This has nothing to do with defense but..... I would love to see Mayfield in a Kubiak offense

9:39 PM · Dec 11, 2019·

-------------------------------------

The reason I mentioned Kubiak is because of the slide-zone blocking schemes he's been entrenched in and has used that fit the personnel on our O-Line and how he uses boots and rolls with his quarterback.  He helped to make Jake Pummer a 'decent' QB.  His blocking schemes would fit Chubb and Hunt if we keep him.  

I was/am surprised Kubiak hasn't gotten more play.  He seems the perfect fit for the Browns current personnel and we could keep Wilks and the ST coaches.  He'd step in and control the room.  Makes too much sense so I wouldn't be surprised if we went in the complete opposite direction and came away with a guy whose scheme doesn't fit, who wasn't a HC who wasn't a former player,  etc.  

Well, at least Pete Smith doesn't hate it.

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I'd shoot myself if I had another long, pronounced debate with a squistion alias who happened to be a Cleveland fan. 

Careul MAC, you'll wind up reported. That is all.  

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17 hours ago, beer 30 said:

I mentioned Rivera above but I'm thinking his ship is sailing to the Giants. He and the GM (Dave Gettlemen) have a long, beautiful history together and Shurmur is gonna, well Shurmur. Just my theory.

In January 2013, Gettleman was chosen to become the General Manager of the Carolina Panthers. In the 2015 season, the Panthers reached Super Bowl 50 on February 7, 2016. The Panthers fell to the Denver Broncos by a score of 24–10. On July 17, 2017, the Panthers relieved him of his duties as General Manager. During Gettleman's tenure as General Manager the Panthers compiled a regular season record of 51-28-1. In that 5-year timeframe the Panthers advanced to the playoffs 4 seasons and won 3 NFC South titles. This is notable because the Panthers have only made the playoffs 8 times in their 24 year history.

And having lived in the Carolina's that entire time, I don't want Rivera running this offense. He'll run the ball to death but you might as well trade away your WR's no and get something for them because they will be wasted in his offense. You're also gonna need a back up QB stat.

2 things:

*Anyone hiring Rivera in 2020 is making a mistake

*Gettleman is a moron

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5 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I'd shoot myself if I had another long, pronounced debate with a squistion alias who happened to be a Cleveland fan. 

Careul MAC, you'll wind up reported. That is all.  

Right or wrong, I never have and never will concern myself with what others are doing. I only have so much time & energy per day. And I will never use any of it to cover my own tracks or walk on eggshells because I'm engaged with someone pushing their own agenda. Stick to the facts and make clear what are opinions then generally good things happen. I'm only concerned with doing what I think is right. I don't always make the right decision, but it's always usually with the right intention. It's bitten me before, but the way I see it - if others are going to be influenced by those acting with ill intentions then I don't want to be involved with that group anyway. 

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40 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

2 things:

*Anyone hiring Rivera in 2020 is making a mistake

*Gettleman is a moron

:lmao:

Carolina was blessed with Cam Newton and his every other year bid for league MVP. Without him they would be Cleveland South.

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3 hours ago, beer 30 said:

:lmao:

Carolina was blessed with Cam Newton and his every other year bid for league MVP. Without him they would be Cleveland South.

This is true, but my opinion on 2020 Rivera is not driven by that - it's driven by what I said about McCarthy, Rex, and Gase earlier. Retreads can work, but I think you need to give them time to re-assess so they can (potentially) return better than they were before. Make a move now and their previous weaknesses that contributed to them losing their previous job will carry-over to the new job. They could be successful anyway (Andy Reid comes to mind), but I think it's more exception than rule.

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4 hours ago, MAC_32 said:

I only have so much time & energy per day.

Given the numbers of posts in this thread alone the past two pages, it doesn't really seem to limited. ;)

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6 minutes ago, DallasDMac said:

Given the numbers of posts in this thread alone the past two pages, it doesn't really seem to limited. ;)

:lmao: Not what I was referring to, but - yeah, guilty. 

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8 hours ago, rockaction said:

I'd shoot myself if I had another long, pronounced debate with a squistion alias who happened to be a Cleveland fan. 

Careul MAC, you'll wind up reported. That is all.  

i think you have to have pretty thick skin to be a Cleveland fan.  most of us can disagree without getting wound too tight. 

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On 12/12/2019 at 6:20 AM, rockaction said:

I'd shoot myself if I had another long, pronounced debate with a squistion alias who happened to be a Cleveland fan. 

Careul MAC, you'll wind up reported. That is all.  

I have no idea what you are talking about. I debated you with an alias and claimed to be a Cleveland fan? :confused:

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33 minutes ago, squistion said:

I have no idea what you are talking about. I debated you with an alias and claimed to be a Cleveland fan? :confused:

I was being colloquial and facetious. Smathers loves to post the Twitter in format aa some sort of truth when it' s all opinions or unsourced.  

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Fire Monken, draft some OL because you traded away one for nothing, take a look at the BALT OL and wake the eff up.

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2 hours ago, lod001 said:

Fire Monken, draft some OL because you traded away one for nothing, take a look at the BALT OL and wake the eff up.

I'd like to know what Monken's involvement with the offense is because if I'm Freddie, I'd go back to what I was running last year. If what we saw last year really was Haley's offense but opened up then why not dust that #### off and go for it? Whatever this is, hasn't taken with the QB & WR's. The RB's seem to be enjoying a good year but as I've said, it feels like they are fighting to get touches in this offense. I know the numbers don't support that but the optics of it.

just don't know if this Monken's doing, Freddie's doing or a collaboration of both.

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I've been ready for Monken to go. Bring in an established OC, one that may have been a HC at some point. Someone that can help Freddie along.  I think FK/Dorsey should also bring in a Sr Advisor to help FK grow as a HC. Both of those kind of hires would help. Both moves would give FK no choice but to learn and grow. Then there would be no excuses for FK.

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23 hours ago, beer 30 said:

I'd like to know what Monken's involvement with the offense is because if I'm Freddie, I'd go back to what I was running last year. If what we saw last year really was Haley's offense but opened up then why not dust that #### off and go for it? Whatever this is, hasn't taken with the QB & WR's. The RB's seem to be enjoying a good year but as I've said, it feels like they are fighting to get touches in this offense. I know the numbers don't support that but the optics of it.

just don't know if this Monken's doing, Freddie's doing or a collaboration of both.

It's all Monken causing this mess. See my post on the previous page when Monken makes stupid statements when he was coaching the Bucs. If I interviewed this guy and he said that, the interview would be over immediately. Just like the Bengals changed blocking schemes to start the season with new coaches, then someone told them how to fix it (scrap what you are doing cause Mixon runs best in the scheme they ran las year) the Browns made a mistake and need to correct it.

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Monken will likely be the scapegoat.  
 

they didn’t lose enough games to fire him in season though.  
 

Kitchens will get one more year, and if they don’t turn it around he will be gone after next season.  

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Good to see Landry get in Kitchens face. 'You suck, Monken sucks, your playcalling sucks, I'm lobbying to get you and Monken fired before next season'.

Pathetic display against a weak ARi pass D.

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**looks on top of fridge**

Hmm, they should make brown liquor stronger. 

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From the NFL.com weekly wrap up:

CBS color commentator Jay Feely said the Browns looked "uninspired, they haven't played hard, haven't played physical" and he's correct. In a game they needed to win or else, they wilted, and the postseason book all but closed on them. How the Browns finish their final month might influence the organization's direction come January. They didn't look too good in that department Sunday.

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Not a lot of hot takes just mush.

Baker did not look good. His decision making has been bad and yesterday he .... Just bad.

The worst pass defense in the league, a team who had not given up LESS than 21 points in any single game and we barely eeked out a garbage score at the end.  I thought we should have  done a lot more considering they can't stop the run either.  

Arizona came in as the most sacked team in the league and our depleted pass rush managed zero sacks.  We had a 'mush-rush' and weren't pressing but without Myles and Vernon we have next to nothing of a pass rush.

Drake only had one TD all year till yesterday.  They made a lot of big plays outside.

Kyler is good, give him credit.

I don't like what Landry did on the sidelines, you don't do that to an NFL head coach.  It undermines him, it makes you both look bad and is completely unnecessary and avoidable.

Joe Schoebert had a bad game.  He wasn't alone but he had a bad game.

Nick Chubb could be the NFL rushing leader.  The first Cleveland Brown since Leroy Kelly.  What he is doing is special.  Relish what you are seeing because it might happen and we may not see it again for a long time.

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Not going to dwell to long on this mess, far as I'm concerned the season has been over a while now but true to form, there was a sliver of hope left going into Arizona this week. Nobody told the Browns though, they left their heart in Cleveland, boarded a plan for Arizona and quickly quit the minute they stepped on the field. The defense was the first to throw in the towel, then the kicker, eventually the offense acquiesced and finally the coaches tossed in the towel. Then we came out for the third quarter...

I've been a proponent to keep Freddie on but when the team quits like it did yesterday, I'm not sure you can anymore.

What is that? $28m sitting on the bench? 11 min left in the game

Could he try less?

"I don't care about my future as Browns coach." Neither do we Freddie

Bask in all our glory

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17 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

I've been a proponent to keep Freddie on but when the team quits like it did yesterday, I'm not sure you can anymore.

I'm right there with you.  It was pathetic.  Watching the game, you would've thought Drake was leading the league in Rushing.  What a ridiculous display yesterday.  I don't see how they keep FK at this point.  If the team that played yesterday shows up next week vs Balt, it'll be a bloodbath.  Hell, they'll make Cincy look like a playoff contender by the last week of the season.  This was a game they were supposed to win, one they needed to win.  Freddie needed the win.  Instead, they #### the bed. I just don't see how FK is retained in any capacity.

If they do switch it up, it has to be someone with previous HC experience.  This team cannot start next year with another coach who is learning as he goes.  This team needs an experienced coach who will have them ready to play week 1.  I never thought this team would get to the Playoffs, but man I thought they would've at least had a winning season.  Pathetic.

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I don't think quit is the right word. Odell and Landry may be on their own agenda at this point and the whole Njoku thing leaves me with my eyebrow raised, but the OL/RB did their job yesterday. As Bracie said, Baker was a mess and I think that influenced the passing game. But the defense? It isn't quit. They just suck. Look who's playing:

Sheldrick Redwine - 100%

Mack Wilson - 100%

Greedy Williams - 100%

Chad Thomas - 77%

Justin Burris - 66%

Porter Gustin - 62%

Bryan Cox - 61%

Eli Ankou - 30%

Rookies, street free agents, and Thomas - and thehn there's Randall who has just been going through the motions (when active ) for weeks. It's not difficult to game plan against this unit. 

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57 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

I don't think quit is the right word.

They quit man, the only one I saw with any kind of fight in him was Chubb. Even street FA play with intensity, these guys didn't. Hell Schobert is playing for a ####### payday and he looked like a fool yesterday.

I don't know what to do. We know Freddie.

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2 hours ago, DallasDMac said:

From the NFL.com weekly wrap up:

CBS color commentator Jay Feely said the Browns looked "uninspired, they haven't played hard, haven't played physical" and he's correct. In a game they needed to win or else, they wilted, and the postseason book all but closed on them. How the Browns finish their final month might influence the organization's direction come January. They didn't look too good in that department Sunday.

I agree with that assessment.  

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8 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

They quit man, the only one I saw with any kind of fight in him was Chubb. Even street FA play with intensity, these guys didn't. Hell Schobert is playing for a ####### payday and he looked like a fool yesterday.

I don't know what to do. We know Freddie.

A good friend of mine that coaches football told me a long time ago that if you want to get a sense of the LB play then watch the DL. I'm not absolving Schobert yesterday, I'd need to re-watch and more succinctly follow him to say one way or the other. But the DL was pushed off the ball without much resistance. Over and over again. Linebacker's are not in position to make plays when the OL gets a push like that.

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