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wadegarrett

**** CLEVELAND BROWNS THREAD ****

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Pathetic end to a pathetic season.

At least we get a higher draft pick.

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2-6 on the road this year.  
 

including losses to the Cardinals and Bengals. 
 

are they partying with crack w####s til 5 in the morning?

Edited by amnesiac

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The biggest mystery will always be the huge win at Baltimore early in the year making me think this team had a real shot to make the playoffs and then it all fell apart.  The clincher was our star DL that lost his mind costing himself the rest of the season and in the process costing us.

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Not sure if it would mattered or not but Jameis just helped Cleveland move up 1 more draft spot as Atlanta now has 7 wins.

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Looks like the Atlanta win didn't mean anything for our pick.

Looks like from best of what I can see is Browns will pick 10th if Denver wins and will pick 11th if Denver loses.

That SOS of .530 they have was the 5th hardest SOS I believe which hurts them when it comes to a better pick since that is tie breaker.

Be nice to have an easier schedule next year.

That .530 SOS can change after today's games but I don't think it can change enough to sway the pick.

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Browns could move to 9th if both Denver and Arizona won actually.  So the range looks to be 9-11.

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Chubb was up over 100 yards on Henry for the rushing title and just lost it.

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Phew was really sweating out that Oakland Denver ending that 2 point miss moves Browns up to #10 pick.

All said and done the Browns would have had pick #15 with a win so losing moved us up from #15 to #10.

At least that is the bright side to the loss today.

Now get a new coach get some offensive lineman.

Make playoffs next year.

Edited by Dez

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4 minutes ago, Steve Tasker said:

Kitchens fired

Imagine taking over for the worst head coach in the history of football and realizing he lasted more than twice as long as you. 

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8 minutes ago, PennStater77 said:

Pretty obvious it was happening, was reported two weeks ago. He lost his team.

 

Heard that are going after Urban Meyer

Meyer would be a huge mistake. 
 

my guess is they will go with a retread.  Rivera, McCarthy, McDaniels. 
 

no way they hire another first year head coach. 

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15 minutes ago, Steve Tasker said:

Kitchens fired

I thought he had it almost dialed in.  IN about 5 more seasons I think he could turn it around.  

 

JK

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9 minutes ago, shadyridr said:

Imagine taking over for the worst head coach in the history of football and realizing he lasted more than twice as long as you. 

Outside of the team I root for there is no other team I want to see do well than the Browns but damn the model they’re following may be the worst in all of sports. How many games did they win just a couple years back? Talent and record have improved but outside expectations rattle them again and around and around they go. It’s a damn shame. 

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10 minutes ago, amnesiac said:

Meyer would be a huge mistake. 
 

my guess is they will go with a retread.  Rivera, McCarthy, McDaniels. 
 

no way they hire another first year head coach. 

Could see them calling dabo. 

But you're probably right. 

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Browns’ head coaches under the Haslams:

🏈2019 Freddie Kitchens
🏈2018 Gregg Williams
🏈2016-18 Hue Jackson
🏈2014-15 Mike Pettine
🏈2013 Rob Chudzinski
🏈2012 Pat Shurmur (Shurmur was HC in 2011 before Haslams bought the Browns).

In what business model is this good?


 

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18 minutes ago, amnesiac said:

Meyer would be a huge mistake. 
 

my guess is they will go with a retread.  Rivera, McCarthy, McDaniels. 
 

no way they hire another first year head coach. 

If there is a front office re-allignment then first year coach options may be on the table.

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With the firing coming so quickly I gotta think they want the jump on going after Lincoln.  But seeing how three NFL loves to recycle guys that got fired somewhere else, I wouldn't be surprised if they go after Mike McCartHy.  

I had to laugh to see and be reminded that ShurmurWas once the HC here and Shurmur likely gets fired tomorrow.

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20 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

If there is a front office re-allignment then first year coach options may be on the table.

oof.  

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9 minutes ago, Shutout said:

With the firing coming so quickly I gotta think they want the jump on going after Lincoln.  But seeing how three NFL loves to recycle guys that got fired somewhere else, I wouldn't be surprised if they go after Mike McCartHy.  

I had to laugh to see and be reminded that ShurmurWas once the HC here and Shurmur likely gets fired tomorrow.

Interestingly, Mary Kay Cabot and Dan Labbe writing for Cleveland.com threw together a list of candidates, and Lincoln is not on it.  I respect Mary Kay, but I am not putting much stock in this speculative list.  Jim Harbaugh is on this list.  If that were to come to fruition, I will supply everyone with pitchforks and lead the charge on Haslam's office.

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Jeremy Fowler‏Verified account @JFowlerESPN

Freddie Kitchens’ firing was about his 6-10 record, but that record spawned from what sources say was an unorganized approach to game-week prep. Kitchens was inexperienced, and it showed in virtually every way.

5:36 PM - 29 Dec 2019

------------------------------------

Coaching matters.  The main arguments that lead to Kitchens hiring were, he wasn't Greg Williams who all the decision makers disliked, he was riding the whirlwind of Baker and the offense, continuity and the 'assumed' continued rise of Baker's learning curve. 

No G-Will, no whirlwind, we don't want continuity of another 10 loss season, no improvement but a glaring lowering of Baker's learning curve.

Freddie was in over his head.  Nice guy but not an NFL HC.

McDaniels blew chunks with the Broncos and left Indy at the alter.  Why the hell would we want him?

McCarthy 'rumored' to have a list of demands.  No, trust is earned.

Rivera would take control but his system doesn't fit our personnel.

I think the clear best option is Gary Kubiak.  Head coaching experience,  AFNC coaching experience, his scheme fits our personnel, former player, won a Super Bowl as a coach,  participated in 7 SBs, he left due to health concerns but he's back and he's doing well enough with the Vikings to prove he hasn't lost it.

No to inexperienced HCs learning on the fly.

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4 minutes ago, Galileo said:

Interestingly, Mary Kay Cabot and Dan Labbe writing for Cleveland.com threw together a list of candidates, and Lincoln is not on it.  I respect Mary Kay, but I am not putting much stock in this speculative list.  Jim Harbaugh is on this list.  If that were to come to fruition, I will supply everyone with pitchforks and lead the charge on Haslam's office.

i will pay for the pitchforks if you handle the logistics.  

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39 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

If there is a front office re-allignment then first year coach options may be on the table.

Interesting read from a day ago about some front office power struggles... 

https://factoryofsadness.co/2019/12/28/cleveland-browns-rumors-paul-depodesta-power-play/

 

18 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

McDaniels blew chunks with the Broncos and left Indy at the alter.  Why the hell would we want him?

Well, if we let Dee call the shots (from the same article above)...

Quote

(Pro Football Network) also included some other scenarios, indicating that several scenarios are on the table following the team’s finale against the Cincinnati Bengals at Paul Brown Stadium.

• Dee Haslam has thrown herself into the mix, and is advocating for Patriots’ offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels to get the gig.

 

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27 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Jeremy Fowler‏Verified account @JFowlerESPN

Freddie Kitchens’ firing was about his 6-10 record, but that record spawned from what sources say was an unorganized approach to game-week prep. Kitchens was inexperienced, and it showed in virtually every way.

5:36 PM - 29 Dec 2019

------------------------------------

Coaching matters.  The main arguments that lead to Kitchens hiring were, he wasn't Greg Williams who all the decision makers disliked, he was riding the whirlwind of Baker and the offense, continuity and the 'assumed' continued rise of Baker's learning curve. 

No G-Will, no whirlwind, we don't want continuity of another 10 loss season, no improvement but a glaring lowering of Baker's learning curve.

Freddie was in over his head.  Nice guy but not an NFL HC.

McDaniels blew chunks with the Broncos and left Indy at the alter.  Why the hell would we want him?

McCarthy 'rumored' to have a list of demands.  No, trust is earned.

Rivera would take control but his system doesn't fit our personnel.

I think the clear best option is Gary Kubiak.  Head coaching experience,  AFNC coaching experience, his scheme fits our personnel, former player, won a Super Bowl as a coach,  participated in 7 SBs, he left due to health concerns but he's back and he's doing well enough with the Vikings to prove he hasn't lost it.

No to inexperienced HCs learning on the fly.

I'll start by saying I KNOW you know your Browns and I'll defer so this is more question than poking a bear but...if your list is nothing but retread HCs who have all been fired and flamed out and ran their courses, what are you gaining by NOT giving an inexperienced guy a chance?  They all start somewhere a d they can't all be bad likeKitchens (which I agree, Freddie was obviously in way over his head).  

But not all rookie HCs will be in over their heads.  Some of these guys will be ok IF a team gives them the opportunity. 

I mean, look no farther tha. Your own back yard.  Belichick WAS experienced in the NFL,yet wasn't good enough in the short run for the Browns as a HC.  He needed time.  I only bring this up to illustrate that with experience or not, it's a moving Target.  I look at Kitchens and think it's as clear as Hue Jackson...never gonna happen.  Move on.  But I look at another guy, like, say, the niners DZc and I could see a scenario where he might flame out if he was given a HC gig next year, but he looks like,e a guy that could grow with experience and be a good one.

Kubiak, I just don't know.  I think the Texans should have achieved much more when he was there.   I think he would be a place holder for you.  

Edited by Shutout

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3 minutes ago, Shutout said:

I'll start by saying I KNOW you know your Browns and I'll defer so this is more question than poking a bear but...if your list is nothing but retread HCs who have all been fired and flamed out and ran their courses, what are you gaining by NOT giving an inexperienced guy a chance?  

Eliminating anyone because they don't check a particular box is (almost) always a mistake. 

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they went with an inexperienced HC, and then fired him after a year because he didn’t have enough experience. 
 

i see no scenario that they don’t hire a retread because they believe they are in “win-now” mode.  
 

instead of investing a year in a new HC, they’ve wasted a year now that they’ve flushed him.  
 

so they are a year behind.  and they will feel the need to try to make up that year.  

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Just now, MAC_32 said:

Eliminating anyone because they don't check a particular box is (almost) always a mistake. 

but they will do it. 

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Just now, amnesiac said:

but they will do it. 

The Haslam's being terrible decision makers doesnt make what I said not true. 

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also, TBH, i have NO idea who they should hire. 
 

just throwing out my 2 cents on what direction they will go, now that they have fired Kitchens.  

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Just now, MAC_32 said:

The Haslam's being terrible decision makers doesnt make what I said not true. 

lol, didn’t say that you were not correct. 

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If you’re McCarthy or Rivera you are only taking this job if you get 5 years and are the highest paid HC in the game. 

The only option I can see is a first timer who doesn’t knew he’s fired after 2 years. 

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Just now, Bigboy10182000 said:

If you’re McCarthy or Rivera you are only taking this job if you get 5 years and are the highest paid HC in the game. 

The only option I can see is a first timer who doesn’t knew he’s fired after 2 years. 

2 years??

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So kitchens, early, coached this team to demolish the Ravens whomwe all know are great.  Was this roster a team that would have achieved much more had they hired, say, Mike mcCarthy?

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16 minutes ago, amnesiac said:

also, TBH, i have NO idea who they should hire. 
 

just throwing out my 2 cents on what direction they will go, now that they have fired Kitchens.  

If the Depo power play is legit then I think Andrew Berry/Kevin Stefanski is an option and the fanbase's collective heads would explode. And if it isn't then others of similar ilk may be. But I think Depo is only signing on if he is given full control. 

If that doesn't come to fruition and Dorsey remains at the top and any re-org is below him then you're probably right - it's a vet head coach. Because that tells me the Haslam's aren't comfortable with handing Depo the keys. Instead they will provide their influence. And that always ends well.

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Mayfield's regression was the nail in Kitchens' coffin. 

Had they gone 6-10, but Mayfield showed improvement this year, maybe he would have survived it. 

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my guess is that Dorsey has some egg on his face, but has done well enough to get one more hire. 
 

he will go the safe route this time.  
 

if they fire Dorsey it is another full rebuild.  
 

that would be terrible. see the numbers i posted earlier about the Browns records over the years. they’ve had their best two years in a decade.  
 

i know that’s not saying much, but to blow it up again at this point would be a huge mistake. 

Edited by amnesiac
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2 minutes ago, amnesiac said:

my guess is that Dorsey has some egg on his face, but has done well enough to get one more hire. 
 

he will go the safe route this time.  
 

if they fire Dorsey it is another full rebuild.  
 

that would be terrible. see the numbers i posted earlier about the Browns records over the years. they’ve had their best two years in a decade.  
 

i know that’s not saying much, but to blow it up again at this point would be a huge mistake. 

The team isn't getting blown up, nor should it.

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2 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

The team isn't getting blown up, nor should it.

shouldn’t.  but anything is possible at this point.  

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1 hour ago, Shutout said:

I'll start by saying I KNOW you know your Browns and I'll defer so this is more question than poking a bear but...if your list is nothing but retread HCs who have all been fired and flamed out and ran their courses, what are you gaining by NOT giving an inexperienced guy a chance?  They all start somewhere a d they can't all be bad likeKitchens (which I agree, Freddie was obviously in way over his head).  

But not all rookie HCs will be in over their heads.  Some of these guys will be ok IF a team gives them the opportunity. 

I mean, look no farther tha. Your own back yard.  Belichick WAS experienced in the NFL,yet wasn't good enough in the short run for the Browns as a HC.  He needed time.  I only bring this up to illustrate that with experience or not, it's a moving Target.  I look at Kitchens and think it's as clear as Hue Jackson...never gonna happen.  Move on.  But I look at another guy, like, say, the niners DZc and I could see a scenario where he might flame out if he was given a HC gig next year, but he looks like,e a guy that could grow with experience and be a good one.

Kubiak, I just don't know.  I think the Texans should have achieved much more when he was there.   I think he would be a place holder for you.  

Their may be a Kyle Shanahan out their, possibly Greg Roman but the team just rolled the dice with that sort of gamble and Roman built his rep on a unique scheme that doesn't fit this team at all.  I like the SF DC but look what he's got to work with.  We don't have four first round picks on our D-Line.  

Side note:   Wilks did a heck of a coaching job early when he lost the entire secondary and still beat the Ravens but the wheels fell off when both Garrett AND Vernon were out and we had no pass rush and losing Morgan Burnett hurt more than I realized.  

A defensive coach isn't addressing the 500 lb gorilla and that is we have to get Baker back on track so we need an offensive coach whose offense fits and Kubes fits. 

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Freddie was a failure. 
 

but expecting a first time head coach to make the playoffs was stupid. 
 

such short sighted BS by the Browns.  
 

maybe Dorsey should be fired... ugh.  

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Its unreal how much he was set up to fail. Not only was he a first time HC but he didn't even have a full year as a OC. He only called plays for the second half of the season when Haley got fired. He was basically learning how to run an offense while being HC with a young QB. Management doomed him.

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Roster-wise, what does everyone think will happen? Defensively is where I think we see the most change. We gave up 30+ points in our last 3 games and the DL was poor, getting pushed off the line and no pass rush to really speak of. We basically had Richardson, Ogunjobi and 2 guys off the street after Myles got suspended.

I think:

  • Randall
  • Obgunjobi
  • Kirksey 
  • Vernon

are all gone. I like Schobert but am 50/50 on him coming back since he's not a Dorsey pick.

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