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Cleveland Browns (10 Viewers)

Joe Banner‏Verified account @JoeBanner13

Jimmy has split football into three parts and people all reporting to him. No one has done this and succeeded
that’s the problem, imo. 
 

Haslem is getting more involved.  
 

he doesn’t have a clue as to how to run a team.  
 

now he’ll be directly touching all aspects of the team, instead of at least having a filter through all the layers.  

 
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that’s the problem, imo. 
 

Haslem is getting more involved.  
 

he doesn’t have a clue as to how to run a team.  
 

now he’ll be directly touching all aspects of the team, instead of at least having a filter through all the layers.  
+Bingo

No buffer.

We've seen he makes the same mistakes over and over.  Schumur rookie HC/OC play-caller.  Org structure flip flopping every time.  Pitting people against each other then arbitrarily listening to one side and taking action against the other then discarding the person who influenced his decision.

Like  a mafia boss hiring hit men then shooting them once they do the job.  

We've had one constant since the return.  Lousy ownership. 

Our best hope is they fall into a tub of butter and luck out but I have serious reservations about McDaniels changing.

 
Joe Banner‏Verified account @JoeBanner13

Jimmy has split football into three parts and people all reporting to him. No one has done this and succeeded
But Jimmy said they're all going to work together! They'll become BFFs! Have sleepovers and do each other's hair as they gossip over their division rivals uniforms. It'll be spectacular! 

 
But Jimmy said they're all going to work together! They'll become BFFs! Have sleepovers and do each other's hair as they gossip over their division rivals uniforms. It'll be spectacular! 
He's right about the best organizations being aligned at the top of the org chart. Everyone is correct to be skeptical he will make the decisions that fosters such an environment though. 

 
the more i read about him, he’s borderline crazy and i’m really doubtful about this teams future as long as he’s the owner.  
 

i was fine being patient and hopeful they’d find the right people to make it work, but if he’s running the show it’s going to be more of the same horror show we’ve gotten so far, and it’ll likely get worse. 

 
i should really give up on the Browns and just focus on the Buckeyes.  
 

i actually went to Ohio State.  
 

didn’t grow up in Cleveland.  
 

oof.  

 
the more i read about him, he’s borderline crazy and i’m really doubtful about this teams future as long as he’s the owner.  
 

i was fine being patient and hopeful they’d find the right people to make it work, but if he’s running the show it’s going to be more of the same horror show we’ve gotten so far, and it’ll likely get worse. 
That SF reporter relaying what Shanny told him about the Haslam's made me go hmm, maybe he isn't the crack pot I've come to believe he is. Admittedly part of that is because I want that to be the case and will grasp at anything to justify it. It's just what fans do. 

 
That SF reporter relaying what Shanny told him about the Haslam's made me go hmm, maybe he isn't the crack pot I've come to believe he is. Admittedly part of that is because I want that to be the case and will grasp at anything to justify it. It's just what fans do. 
Shanny isn't going to poison the well for his DCs shot at getting a HC gig.  He did bring the hammer down on Snyder but Dan fired him and his Dad.

That was personal.

Kyle taking the high road in regards to Jimmy is business.  Good business if he begins to nurture a fruitful coaching tree.  That would be a good draw for any future hires he might/will have to fill in the future.

 
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Shanny isn't going to poison the well for his DCs shot at getting a HC gig.  He did bring the hammer down on Snyder but Dan fired him and his Dad.

That was personal.

Kyle taking the high road in regards to Jimmy is business.  Good business if he begins to nurture a fruitful coaching tree.  That would be a good draw for any future hires he might/will have to fill in the future.
If it were such a toxic situation I would think a straight shooter like Shanny would steer his assistants away from here. 

 
If it were such a toxic situation I would think a straight shooter like Shanny would steer his assistants away from here. 
A big picture has been formed.   "We just don't know what we are doing," Dee said

THE HASLAMS HAVE messed things up before. They confess as much in their all-staff meetings after announcing shifts in administration. Last year at the combine, a group of fired Browns coaches, a club both exclusive and expanding, met for dinner. Those who know Haslam well -- even those who have been fired by him -- admit each housecleaning probably made sense on its face. Too much fighting, too little winning. It's the overall pattern that is baffling, the inability of Haslam to either evaluate people and plans well or stick by them. There were a lot of coaches at that dinner, but they weren't the only casualties of Haslam's decisions. The main casualties have been ideas. Nobody knows what will work, or what could have worked, because Haslam refuses to commit to a football ideology long enough to see it through.

It scars people...

 
On one hand, I agree. On the other, I appreciate the awareness to admit mistakes instead of grinding forward pretending like nothing is wrong.

They swung too far one way with Sashi, made the fatal flaw pairing him with Hue, swung too far the other way with Dorsey, then put their trust in him and were rewarded with a coach that was in over his head...that Dorsey tried to keep hidden - and enabled. 

What they at least seem to be doing now is taking a more level headed approach to what they wanted to do in 2016. Despite the org chart setup that leaves me side eyed, I think that is the correct approach. His mistake last time was trying to pair Sashi with Hue. So let's find a coach that checks Depo's boxes and find a GM that checks both of theirs. Theoretically, i get it.

But then I remind myself that Haslam's impatience may not allow him to see it through if they don't get it right immediately. Which is why any optimism is very very guarded. 

 
Going to be vague here because it’s a TIFWIW item....

McDaniels is not uprooting his immediate family right now and leaving NE. There was more context, but again I’m being purposely vague. 

When I’m told something in this fashion, I usually lean the opposite way. It would be bad business if McDaniels was letting this out. Maybe it’s not him though. 

All that said, the last time this person gave me a scoop he nailed one of Gordon’s pops before it went public. Not difficult to do I suppose :lol:

 
I dunno.  I think most of those questions can be answered if the writer wanted to dig and get the info.  Njoku and Randall sat b/c they mouthed off, didn't show up to meetings, or didn't take practice seriously. Those have all been documented by other CLE beat writers. 

Mayfield had a down year between believing all of his success from 2018, tied with the dysfunctional coaching staff. He no longer has Zampese, who was a string influence for him. He got Lindley instead who had no clue what he was doing. Freddie and Minken never saw eye to eye, and plays practices throughout the week were changed prior to game day. Big recipie for disaster.

Higgins wasn't a Dorsey guy. Dorsey wanted the speedster on the end. He wanted a Tyreek Hill type of player. That wasn't Higgins. 

So there's 4 more answers for the writer 

 
i’m willing to give McDaniels a chance. 
 

or McCarthy if they go that route. 
 

if you look at the roster (assuming Mayfield bounces back) their window is still opening. 
 

no way they roll with another 1st time head coach.  especially after the disaster of 2019.  teams are reactionary. 

 
I dont know who the right hire is but please god hire someone with experience and dont make the coach the primary playcaller.

I cant live through the level of dumb that brings

 
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Hayden Winks‏ @HaydenWinks

The #Browns were, by far, the worst rushing team near the goal-line in 2019 thanks to Freddie Kitchens.

48% of the NFL's carries inside-the-4 went for TDs.

Nick Chubb scored a TD on 2-of-15 carries (13%) and had -14 rushing yards here.

8:30 AM - 31 Dec 2019

------------------------------------

Lots of reasons but the biggest was Freddie.

The calls, telegraphing when/where/who, trying to run horizontally.  Defense 'seemed' to know plays (tells?). 

I'd never seen anything like it. The complete utter failure in GL run situations. 

Almost like Freddie never saw a GL situation or never prepared for GL run situations.

 With so many failures we lack appropriate adjectives to describe the suck.  

I mean if only we had one of the top RBs in the league let alone two top RB talents then maybe....

EDIT:  When the Browns ran a play action boot, they were successful on 73.7%, best in the NFL by a large margin (10.6%).

Browns ran 4th fewest in the NFL.

 
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For those keeping score at home, cross McCarthy off your wish list.

Per Schefter & Glazer, Cowboys set to hire McCarthy as their next HC
Absolutely knew someone was going to offer up MM quickly.  This is exactly why you have to be swift (I'm not saying to be reckless and offer up the first guy that impresses you, they likely all will in some regards) and not interview people for 3 weeks simply trying to get it right.  The background stuff should have been done already, the interview is alot of confirmation.  The best candidates always get picked off first.  Just look at all the times we've "settled" the last 20 years.  

edit: not to mention, this trickles down to everyone the coach hires.  I know it's a buddy network, but some of these guys overlap, and some of them look to hire the best no matter if they've worked together before or not.

 
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Absolutely knew someone was going to offer up MM quickly.  This is exactly why you have to be swift (I'm not saying to be reckless and offer up the first guy that impresses you, they likely all will in some regards) and not interview people for 3 weeks simply trying to get it right.  The background stuff should have been done already, the interview is alot of confirmation.  The best candidates always get picked off first.  Just look at all the times we've "settled" the last 20 years.  
yep.  the process is messed up. 
 

the first domino has fallen, the rest will start to go quickly from here.  
 

head coaches, assistant coaches, it’s gonna be a whirlwind.  they can’t sit around waiting til after the Super Bowl to interview every last guy they’re interested in.  
 

McCarthy has been waiting all year and he jumped at the first opportunity he liked. 
 

hopefully the Browns know who they want and go get him.  i don’t know enough to really have an opinion on who it should be, just that they need to get it done.  

 
Absolutely knew someone was going to offer up MM quickly.  This is exactly why you have to be swift (I'm not saying to be reckless and offer up the first guy that impresses you, they likely all will in some regards) and not interview people for 3 weeks simply trying to get it right.  The background stuff should have been done already, the interview is alot of confirmation.  The best candidates always get picked off first.  Just look at all the times we've "settled" the last 20 years.  
I'm not convinced McCarthy was the best candidate anyway. I'd have been open minded to it because he's at least saying the right things, but until I started actually seeing it those seeds of doubt about this all being strategic marketing would have been there. On the other hand, I have little doubt of this being a bad thing for Dallas. Cause worst case he's little different than the guy they just canned and they've at least been average every year they've not started Matt Cassell, Kellen Moore, and Brandon Weeden in 12 of their 16 games. If he's evolved then obviously there's room for more. And given their cap situation if they're going to be any better than average then he needs to.

 
yep.  the process is messed up. 
 

the first domino has fallen, the rest will start to go quickly from here.  
 

head coaches, assistant coaches, it’s gonna be a whirlwind.  they can’t sit around waiting til after the Super Bowl to interview every last guy they’re interested in.  
 

McCarthy has been waiting all year and he jumped at the first opportunity he liked. 
 

hopefully the Browns know who they want and go get him.  i don’t know enough to really have an opinion on who it should be, just that they need to get it done.  
If Stefanski or Saleh are the targets then needing to get it done is an unreasonable expectation.

 
I'm not convinced McCarthy was the best candidate anyway. I'd have been open minded to it because he's at least saying the right things, but until I started actually seeing it those seeds of doubt about this all being strategic marketing would have been there. On the other hand, I have little doubt of this being a bad thing for Dallas. Cause worst case he's little different than the guy they just canned and they've at least been average every year they've not started Matt Cassell, Kellen Moore, and Brandon Weeden in 12 of their 16 games. If he's evolved then obviously there's room for more. And given their cap situation if they're going to be any better than average then he needs to.
I'm with you for the most part.  I'm just saying the two most experienced coaches on the market are now gone and we're interviewing Brian Daboll today.  Some people want the "take your time, interview many, and get it right approach".  

What's left....Carolina and New York?  And mostly a bunch of coordinators.

Today I'm still feeling like we're heading towards a bout with McDaniels.  

 
I'm with you for the most part.  I'm just saying the two most experienced coaches on the market are now gone and we're interviewing Brian Daboll today.  Some people want the "take your time, interview many, and get it right approach".  

What's left....Carolina and New York?  And mostly a bunch of coordinators.

Today I'm still feeling like we're heading towards a bout with McDaniels.  
I think they already have their priority list. The major wrinkles are Saleh and Bienemy and they've already been interviewed. Other than them...they know McDaniels. And Stefanski. They just can't formalize anything because all but one of them are still playing. If it happens this week then it's McD. If it doesn't then it's one of the other 3 since I don't think Roman nor Daboll are serious contenders and they've known at least where they were leaning since Saturday.

I'll be right with you all fiery pitchfork in hand if this is a repeat of that mess in 2014, but color me delusional - I don't see any reason to believe that's what will happen.

 
Putting this separate, I understand the want for 'an experienced head coach.' I just vehemently disagree with that being a box that needs checked. I don't think it should be a part of any process. What are you going to do? How are you going to do it? Attention to detail...preparation...people skils...juggling multiple different hats simultaneously...and everything in between - those are the sort of questions that matter. I don't think what you have done really does.  The HC position, and the traits necessary to be a successful one, is so different than every other position in an organization. I think the resume means far less than forecasting.

 
DCleveland Browns owners Dee and Jimmy Haslam listen to a question during a season ticket member fan forum before practice at the NFL football team's training facility in Berea in 2017.1 Briggs: As clown parade continues, time for Haslams to sell the Browns

...Since Jimmy and Dee Haslam purchased the franchise in 2012, the Browns are 33-94-1 and the Haslams have fired five coaches and five general managers..

...The Haslams run a for-profit charity for the rest of the NFL, and, through no doing of their own, continue to reap the rewards. Even the Factory of Sadness is a mint, the same franchise they bought for $1 billion now valued at $2.2 billion, according to Forbes.
Haslams have no financial incentive to win.  They have bruises by the stacks of money thrown at them. 

  • Destroy team ✔️
  • Destroy coaches ✔️
  • Destroy organization ✔️
  • Destroy fan hope ✔️
Make a billion  :moneybag: 🤑💰💲 

 
ghostguy123 said:
Yeah but look who's doing the forecasting.
The Haslam's aren't doing the forecasting. Depo and his team are. The Haslam's are making decisions based on that forecasting and the actual interviews. We all should obviously have doubts about whatever they decide, but I don't see any reason to doubt the process developed that created those forecasts.

 
DCleveland Browns owners Dee and Jimmy Haslam listen to a question during a season ticket member fan forum before practice at the NFL football team's training facility in Berea in 2017.1 Briggs: As clown parade continues, time for Haslams to sell the Browns

Haslams have no financial incentive to win.  They have bruises by the stacks of money thrown at them. 

  • Destroy team ✔️
  • Destroy coaches ✔️
  • Destroy organization ✔️
  • Destroy fan hope ✔️
Make a billion  :moneybag: 🤑💰💲 
Make sure to deduct your losses from that valuation.

Crain’s estimated that the Browns owed more than $55 million in dead salary to fired coaches from 1999 through 2012.

You'd think with inflation since 2012, and the additional coaches/FO staff hired/fired over the last 8 years, this number has increased.  Some of the older contracts may have been replaced with a higher dollar amount in recent years.  If anything, Haslam isn't afraid to spend money.

 
DCleveland Browns owners Dee and Jimmy Haslam listen to a question during a season ticket member fan forum before practice at the NFL football team's training facility in Berea in 2017.1 Briggs: As clown parade continues, time for Haslams to sell the Browns

Haslams have no financial incentive to win.  They have bruises by the stacks of money thrown at them. 

  • Destroy team ✔️
  • Destroy coaches ✔️
  • Destroy organization ✔️
  • Destroy fan hope ✔️
Make a billion  :moneybag: 🤑💰💲 
True, but they have no incentive not to win, either.

 
MAC_32 said:
Putting this separate, I understand the want for 'an experienced head coach.' I just vehemently disagree with that being a box that needs checked. I don't think it should be a part of any process. What are you going to do? How are you going to do it? Attention to detail...preparation...people skils...juggling multiple different hats simultaneously...and everything in between - those are the sort of questions that matter. I don't think what you have done really does.  The HC position, and the traits necessary to be a successful one, is so different than every other position in an organization. I think the resume means far less than forecasting.
You're right in calling it a "box to be checked" per se, but all of the sub-boxes it entails would seem to require head coaching experience.  Of all the things attributed to the Fall of Freddie, the one that stands out to me as undeniable is the laissez faire attitude toward preparation during the preseason.    This, to me, is an item an experienced coach would be attuned to and a newbie would be playing by ear.

 
True, but they have no incentive not to win, either.
I agree with this.   I think the Browns are trying to win, they just haven't been very good at it.

On the other hand the owner of the Pittsburgh Pirates is only concerned with the bottom line and the less he spends, the more money goes in his pocket.

 
You're right in calling it a "box to be checked" per se, but all of the sub-boxes it entails would seem to require head coaching experience.  Of all the things attributed to the Fall of Freddie, the one that stands out to me as undeniable is the laissez faire attitude toward preparation during the preseason.    This, to me, is an item an experienced coach would be attuned to and a newbie would be playing by ear.
You're not wrong. I just think looking at what the last guy didn't get right is a bad process because it has no correlation to what the next guy will do, regardless of whether they have experience or not.

Anecdotally just look around the league - John Harbaugh, Bill O'Brien, Andy Reid, Mike Zimmer, Bill Bellichik, Sean Payton, Mike Tomlin, and Pete Carrol. That's the list of current coaches with 5+ years of experience. Half had head coaching experience and the other half did not. Extend it out to 2017 and only one of the seven had previous experience. Previous experience means something to fans because they feel better about it; they have familiarity with the name so an opinion has developed (whether good or bad). There's no correlation between prior experience and success though.

Let your process shake out the best candidate then hire whoever that is.

 
McDaniels still coming in on Friday after visiting the Giants.  Maybe Jimmy is going for the full weekend slumber party at Casa de Haslem.

 
MAC_32 said:
If Stefanski or Saleh are the targets then needing to get it done is an unreasonable expectation.
then they need a plan in place and execute it the moment they are out of the playoffs. 

 
McDaniels still coming in on Friday after visiting the Giants.  Maybe Jimmy is going for the full weekend slumber party at Casa de Haslem.
I don't think he leaves NY without a contract in hand. He also wants to talk to Carolina. By Friday he'll be gainfully employed someplace not named Cleveland IMO.

 
I don't think he leaves NY without a contract in hand. He also wants to talk to Carolina. By Friday he'll be gainfully employed someplace not named Cleveland IMO.
McDaniels has said he will attend every interview before making a decision on his next step. He has all the power as he doesn't have to leave NE. So there's no rush on his side 

 
McDaniels has said he will attend every interview before making a decision on his next step. He has all the power as he doesn't have to leave NE. So there's no rush on his side 
so maybe it’s good the Browns are last?

i mean, if that’s who they want?

 
so maybe it’s good the Browns are last?

i mean, if that’s who they want?
I think him putting us last is an indicator he wants to choose here, but if one of the others offers a better situation then he won't let his wants get in the way. If I'm wrong I'll eat my words, but I can't see him going to New York and dealing with that dinosaur Gettleman. So I think it's us, Carolina, or no one. 

 
I think him putting us last is an indicator he wants to choose here, but if one of the others offers a better situation then he won't let his wants get in the way. If I'm wrong I'll eat my words, but I can't see him going to New York and dealing with that dinosaur Gettleman. So I think it's us, Carolina, or no one. 
it makes some sense.  if he is leaning towards Cleveland, he can use the other interviews/offers as leverage. 

 
my biggest concern about McDaniels is that he will want too much control.  it seems like the NFL is just one big power struggle where they’re too busy in-fighting to focus on winning games. 
 

 
my biggest concern about McDaniels is that he will want too much control.  it seems like the NFL is just one big power struggle where they’re too busy in-fighting to focus on winning games. 
If it helps some Twitter media sources swear he doesn't want personnel control. But I don't recall which ones off the top of my head (not ones like Florio or LaCanfora though) and phone searching on that app drives me nuts.

Edit: it might have been Breer, he's often on Bull & Fox and is connected to McD

 
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