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Cleveland Browns (7 Viewers)

We need at least one more pass rusher and Dorsey was trying to add another dominant DT.  We're going to lose Randall at FS and Kirko at LB which was already thin so we need a FS and a LB who can play but we've got Myles and corners who can play press-man.

The defense is much more open to change depending on what we  do in FA and the draft and what Woods brings as a coaching strength.   
I wrote back in December how important prioritization is going to be in approaching this offseason. You're hinting at it here. Not everything is going to be fixed in March and April. There will be some calculated risks and I'm very curious where they will be taken. Because we need help at all of FS, DE, DT, ILB, SS, and CB3. And we already have piles of money devoted to the defense.

If I had to guess I think those risks will be at SS (hope one of Burris or Redwine takes a big step up with a rehabbing Burnett as the fall back), ILB (use the savings from cutting Carrie/Kirksey to retain Schobert but don't do anything else of consequence), one of the OT's (Lamm vs. Forbes with Hubbard as a fall back), and OG (hope Teller keeps developing, use the loser of Lamm/Forbes as plan B, and intend to add someone in the middle rounds). I think the extent of the priority capital on the OL will be spent round 1 of the draft. I think Browns fans will be pissed about it, but given all of the holes (I didn't even mention TE) I think those would be unreasonable complaints.

So all of that would leave $50 mil in cap space to infuse talent at FS (isn't anyone there), DE (Vernon expires at year's end and there isn't anything behind him), DT (Ogunjobi expires at year's end and there isn't anyone behind him), and CB3 (Mitchell expires at year's end and there isn't anyone behind him). Depending on what happens with the CBA it may be wise to use it all. But we probably can't target anyone that we'd have to lock up for more than 2 years with so many rookie deals ending soon. So none of those adds will be tier 1 free agents. They'll probably be tier 3's. Cause tier 1's get retained then tier 2's that actually get to free agency get paid like tier 1's.

 
I wrote back in December how important prioritization is going to be in approaching this offseason. You're hinting at it here. Not everything is going to be fixed in March and April. There will be some calculated risks and I'm very curious where they will be taken. Because we need help at all of FS, DE, DT, ILB, SS, and CB3. And we already have piles of money devoted to the defense.

If I had to guess I think those risks will be at SS (hope one of Burris or Redwine takes a big step up with a rehabbing Burnett as the fall back), ILB (use the savings from cutting Carrie/Kirksey to retain Schobert but don't do anything else of consequence), one of the OT's (Lamm vs. Forbes with Hubbard as a fall back), and OG (hope Teller keeps developing, use the loser of Lamm/Forbes as plan B, and intend to add someone in the middle rounds). I think the extent of the priority capital on the OL will be spent round 1 of the draft. I think Browns fans will be pissed about it, but given all of the holes (I didn't even mention TE) I think those would be unreasonable complaints.

So all of that would leave $50 mil in cap space to infuse talent at FS (isn't anyone there), DE (Vernon expires at year's end and there isn't anything behind him), DT (Ogunjobi expires at year's end and there isn't anyone behind him), and CB3 (Mitchell expires at year's end and there isn't anyone behind him). Depending on what happens with the CBA it may be wise to use it all. But we probably can't target anyone that we'd have to lock up for more than 2 years with so many rookie deals ending soon. So none of those adds will be tier 1 free agents. They'll probably be tier 3's. Cause tier 1's get retained then tier 2's that actually get to free agency get paid like tier 1's.
FA never goes how I anticipate but the first signing we made after Berry came on board was a FB, something Stefanski said he was going to utilize.  

The cap will get  squeezed soon so I expect strategic FA signings to fill some holes in the outside zone on offense and I have no clue what Woods needs to run his scheme but I don't think we're going to get a big high profile defender, maybe a smaller-name FS or something along those lines but I don't think we go big name unless we are set to make a SB run.

Ogun just hit some incentives and doubled his salary so he's underpaid.  I'd like to re-sign him.  I think we keep Vernon too.  I like our corners but Kirksey is gone and so are both tackles, they don't fit.

NFL Offensive Lines: Alex Gibbs’ Zone Blocking Scheme

For the draft....    ...super-premium left tackle early in the draft.  When a team has a left tackle that is both big and agile, it allows the team to mix up schemes within the game, allowing them to dictate the run game.
We signed one of the best O-Line coaches in the game.  We hired a HC who learned the Alex Gibbs/Mike Shanahan outside zone/play action-boot run/pass concepts that is built off the O-Line.   This draft is deep at OT and we are perfectly positioned to land a blue-chip OT to fit outside zone and be the cornerstone.  

Not sexy but I think our top pick will be OT.  Need/scheme/draft setting up to fill need with blue-chip prospect = PRIORITY

 
FA never goes how I anticipate but the first signing we made after Berry came on board was a FB, something Stefanski said he was going to utilize.  

The cap will get  squeezed soon so I expect strategic FA signings to fill some holes in the outside zone on offense and I have no clue what Woods needs to run his scheme but I don't think we're going to get a big high profile defender, maybe a smaller-name FS or something along those lines but I don't think we go big name unless we are set to make a SB run.

Ogun just hit some incentives and doubled his salary so he's underpaid.  I'd like to re-sign him.  I think we keep Vernon too.  I like our corners but Kirksey is gone and so are both tackles, they don't fit.

NFL Offensive Lines: Alex Gibbs’ Zone Blocking Scheme

We signed one of the best O-Line coaches in the game.  We hired a HC who learned the Alex Gibbs/Mike Shanahan outside zone/play action-boot run/pass concepts that is built off the O-Line.   This draft is deep at OT and we are perfectly positioned to land a blue-chip OT to fit outside zone and be the cornerstone.  

Not sexy but I think our top pick will be OT.  Need/scheme/draft setting up to fill need with blue-chip prospect = PRIORITY
Hubbard out would create $5 mil in cap space, but can Lamm and Forbes play tackle in the new scheme? If not then a better replacement is going to cost more than the Hubbard savings.

I'm on the fence with Ogunjobi. He took a step back last year. So there's the part of me that wants the allure of a 2nd contract dangling in front of him to light a fire under his ###...but then if that happens then we may not be able to afford to retain him.

I previously thought Vernon was going to get whacked due to his cap charge and the fact that we can get out of the deal with $0 dead money, but the problem is the rest of our DE's suck. So keeping him with plans on not being active in 2021 free agency nor retaining him then recouping the comp pick is probably the play. But in order to facilitate options that don't suck need brought in over the next few months. 

 
I'm on the fence with Ogunjobi. He took a step back last year. So there's the part of me that wants the allure of a 2nd contract dangling in front of him to light a fire under his ###...but then if that happens then we may not be able to afford to retain him.
He played better than you seem to think.

He more than doubled his salary based on the CBA performance escalator.

Browns DT Larry Ogunjobi earns big salary bump from performance escalator

Jeff Risdon 3 days ago

Browns defensive tackle Larry Ogunjobi has proven himself to be a quality NFL starter in his first three seasons. As a result of his strong play, Ogunjobi has qualified for a substantial bump in his 2020 salary.

Ogunjobi played enough snaps to make the Proven Performance Escalator clause in the Collective Bargaining Agreement. It’s a clause that rewards players drafted in the third round or later who play significant snaps over the first three years of their career. Ogunjobi was the Browns’ third-round pick in 2017 out of Charlotte.

Instead of earning $998,000 in 2020, the final year of his rookie contract, Ogunjobi’s salary is now $2.147 million. He will earn the equivalent of the lowest restricted free agent tender value for playing in at least 35 percent of all defensive snaps over his first three seasons. Ogunjobi played just over 60 percent.

The salary bump does count against the Browns 2020 salary cap figure. Ogunjobi will be a free agent at the end of the 2020 season.
He played much better with Myles as did the entire defense but he was getting inside pass rush and was the only D-Linemen after Myles went down who made plays.  I also liked how he had Myles back in the Pittsburgh game even if he went a lil thug-life.

 
I said everyone's game suffered when Myles went down and the entire defense suffered but Larry's production doubled.

That twitter guy said Larry played NT, um yeah and DE and lots of other positions on the line especially after Myles went down so I have no idea where he got numbers to judge his performance when he went from playing with a potential DMVP to guys scraped off the WW who are no longer in the league.

In the first ten games with Myles Ogun had 28 combined tackles or 2.8 per game.

In the final four games (he served a two game suspension) without Myles Ogun had 22 tackles or 5.5 per game.

He was making plays on what may have been the worst D-Line in the league over the final weeks of the season.  We not only lost Myles we lost Vernon and had other injuries/suspensions.

 
We were for once having a good back-and-forth. Now you're going to discredit a PFF analyst despite countless times before citing their data - but only when it fit your preconceived bias of course. And your counter argument is...tackles. If you think the analysis is wrong, fine - but bring better meat to the BBQ.

 
We were for once having a good back-and-forth. Now you're going to discredit a PFF analyst despite countless times before citing their data - but only when it fit your preconceived bias of course. And your counter argument is...tackles. If you think the analysis is wrong, fine - but bring better meat to the BBQ.
Mac I'm not trying to be difficult but PFF's numbers do not take into account supporting cast and the impact.

Their was a huge drop-off with the entire defense when Myles got suspended.  He is that much of a difference maker.  Nearly all of Larry's sacks came with Myles on the field and he did double his tackle production and equaled his stuff production in only four games.  

Did he disappoint?  Yeah but so did Schobert and Denzel and pick about any name other than Myles.

 
they should be giving ####### refunds to the poor folks dumb enough to pay for this ####, and they’re RAISING the prices?

oh, and the comment that they are still in the bottom 4 for the league?   the cost of living in Cleveland is dirt cheap compared to most cities. 
 

AND they have been THE WORST franchise over the last 20 years.  
 

the should be 32nd in ticket price in the NFL. 
 

don’t forget, due to profit sharing, Haslam has made money hand over fist and the appreciation on the franchise since he’s bought it he could make a handsome profit and walk away tomorrow. 
 

JFC.  
 

I’m sorry for the rant but this team should be kissing our asses to try to keep us engaged, and this is the #### they do.  
 

:micdrop:

 
it’s been TWELVE ####### years!!!!
I feel you, when I saw that last night I thought the same. I think is going to be a lot of grumbling about this but...I'd be willing to bet they still have a wait list to get season tickets much longer than any of us would guess.

 
I feel you, when I saw that last night I thought the same. I think is going to be a lot of grumbling about this but...I'd be willing to bet they still have a wait list to get season tickets much longer than any of us would guess.
You think so? With HD TV and whatnot, I have to think people aren't exactly lining up to spend money on train wrecks. Teams like the skins claimed 30 year waiting list. Now visiting fans outnumber home fans and tickets are easy to get.

 
Interesting hire.

I've been looking for Shanhan connections to Stefanski via the coaching staff and McCartney has the connections.

Browns hire former Broncos QB coach T.C. McCartney as offensive assistant

...McCartney was an offensive quality control coach for the Browns in 2014 under Kyle Shanahan.

McCartney was fired as quarterbacks coach by the Broncos at the end of the 2019 season, when they let his boss, offensive coordinator Rich Scangerello, go. But McCartney drew praise for his work with rookie quarterback Drew Lock, who went 4-1 at the end of the season, with victories over the Chargers, Texans, Lions and Raiders...

...Scangarello interviewed with Stefanski for an offensive position, possibly offensive coordinator, and McCartney was a candidate to join him as quarterbacks coach

...McCartney will likely assist with the Browns quarterbacks in addition to his other duties, meaning the Browns might not hire a specific quarterbacks coach. Stefanski, Van Pelt and McCartney will all work with Baker Mayfield, and Stefanski hasn’t yet determined who will call the plays.

Before joining Scangarello in Denver, McCartney spent two years with him in San Francisco, where they helped the 49ers rank 10th in passing yards during that time. McCartney has also worked at LSU and Colorado.
T.C. McCartney, son of late CU QB Sal Aunese, is Broncos' new QB coach McCartney spent two seasons on 49ers staff with Broncos new offensive coordinator Rich Scangarello

"I am thrilled by the news,'' Bill McCartney said in a statement. "Ever since TC was young, he expressed his desire that someday he wanted to be a coach. This is another step in his ultimate goal to one day become a head coach.

"TC started at the ground level and worked his way up. He earned this because of his work ethic and how he has become a total student of the game.

"I knew I wanted to be a coach by the time I was seven years old ... TC's career path has mirrored that. This opportunity is a testimony to his hard work and dedication to the profession.''

He spent the past two years as an offensive assistant on Kyle Shanahan’s staff with the San Francisco 49ers. Scangarello spent the past two seasons as the 49ers’ quarterbacks coach. McCartney also worked the 2014 season with the Cleveland Browns when Shanahan was their offensive coordinator.

So McCartney has three years experience of working in the Shanahan offensive system.

Meanwhile, before Scangarello became San Francisco's quarterbacks' coach, he spent the 2016 season serving as Wagner's offensive coordinator.

Calabrese was his running backs coach that season. When Scangarello left for the 49ers, Calabrese became Wagner's offensive coordinator the next two seasons.

So after flirting with Mike Shanahan and Gary Kubiak in the past year, the Broncos wound up with their same offensive system -- they got younger instructors to implement it.

Fresh minds and new blood do come with the risk of inexperience
That was when McCartney was hired by the Broncos so he now has four years experience in the Shanahan/Kubiak offensive system and if we had hired Scangerello he would have tabbed him as his QB coach.  T.C. is going to be able to help Stefanski installing the offense since he's versed in the system and the terminology.  Remember Stefanski learned the system and terminology directly from Kubiak instead of having the terminology changed to what he was familiar with so McCartney has four years familiarity with the terminology and will be a valuable resource helping the other coaches learning the system.

Side note of interest.  

He is the son of Sal Aunese.  You probably never heard of Sal.

Sal Aunese was the starting QB of the Colorado Buffalo's with head coach Bill McCartney.  Bill is/was a huge Christian.  Bill's daughter met Sal and a big media circus followed when she became pregnant with Sal's daughter and that circus got enormous when Sal was diagnosed with stomach cancer. 

It was right at that time that the CU football program took off and began their championship run.  Sal became the spokesman from his hospital bed.  He passed less than a year prior to CU winning the National Championship.  

T.C. says he has wanted to be a coach ever since he was seven and I believe he inherited a lot from his father and his grandfather.  

Very interesting hire, great ties to Shanahan/Kubiak offfense and personal story is amazing. :thumbup:  

 
Completely reinstated or still missing some games? 
No games, just counseling.

AP: Myles Garrett To Be Reinstated Wednesday

According to Tom Withers of the Associated Press, the NFL is set to reinstate Cleveland Browns defensive end Myles Garrett from his indefinite suspension Wednesday.

...Beyond the six games Garrett was suspended, he also had to go to anger management counseling, which he had to complete in order to be reinstated. 
Would LOVE to see Mason Rudolph under center with a healthy Myles Garrett this year.  Can you imagine?

 
You're still obnoxiously defending this guy, aren'tyou?  He's a goon. Not a nice guy. What is your irrational connection with him? Like Rudolph is at fault for his deplorable action? Silly.
meh.  let it go.  

Garrett was wrong.  really wrong. 

did Ruloph also have a part?  maybe?  i can’t imagine Garrett went off the hook like that unprovoked. 
 

near as i can tell, this is the only stupid thing he’s done since he’s been in Cleveland. 
 
does it matter anymore?  nope. this episode is over   

 
anyone remember that time Donte Stallworth got paid a bunch of money by the Browns?

then he got drunk and killed a man?

and then he paid the man’s family some money and kept playing in the NFL?

yeah... i’m totally cool with Garrett having some anger management and then keep playing in the NFL.  

 
meh.  let it go. 

anyone remember that time Donte Stallworth got paid a bunch of money by the Browns?

then he got drunk and killed a man?

and then he paid the man’s family some money and kept playing in the NFL?

yeah... i’m totally cool with Garrett having some anger management and then keep playing in the NFL.  
I agree with the embedded quote (which is only embedded because of bad formatting) actually. It just seemed like a little too much "Rudolph will get what's coming" inherent in the other comment, but that's par for the course with that commenter. 

 
You're still obnoxiously defending this guy, aren'tyou? He's a goon. Not a nice guy. What is your irrational connection with him? Like Rudolph is at fault for his deplorable action? Silly.
People tend to say, "He ripped his helmet off and tried to kill him with it" as if it was a single premeditated act.  If that were true, you might have a case.  What actually happened is that AFTER the helmet was removed, Garrett was done.  He backed off 7 steps & Rudolph charged him.  Dumb move when you have nothing covering your head & the other guy has a potential weapon.  I want you to suggest ANYTHING else that was likely to occur.  So, my point is... Garrett did what could reasonably be expected by anyone, at that point.  Don't call him a goon because YOU reacted emotionally to what you saw.  Finally, do you know where he is & what he's doing right now?  You'll want  to know.

 
People tend to say, "He ripped his helmet off and tried to kill him with it" as if it was a single premeditated act.  If that were true, you might have a case.  What actually happened is that AFTER the helmet was removed, Garrett was done.  He backed off 7 steps & Rudolph charged him.  Dumb move when you have nothing covering your head & the other guy has a potential weapon.  I want you to suggest ANYTHING else that was likely to occur.  So, my point is... Garrett did what could reasonably be expected by anyone, at that point.  Don't call him a goon because YOU reacted emotionally to what you saw.  Finally, do you know where he is & what he's doing right now?  You'll want  to know.
Wait - you’re saying Garrett’s only option in that case was to swing a helmet at Rudolph’s head or at worst that’s what we should expect most people to do in that situation?

Wow. This may be one of the worst posts I’ve ever read on here. You may want to re-read it, come to your senses, and delete it. 

I realize fans can become attached to players sometimes irrationally but in this case I can’t imagine that most fans would defend what Garret did let alone try and spew some garbage like what else should we have expected.

 
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You're still obnoxiously defending this guy, aren'tyou? He's a goon. Not a nice guy. What is your irrational connection with him? Like Rudolph is at fault for his deplorable action? Silly.
I totally agree with you.

Rudolph IS  AT FAULT for his deplorable action(S).

Myles Garrett paid the price for his actions and he is back and I'm sooooooo happy.

Does that make you angry?  

 
Wait - you’re saying Garrett’s only option in that case was to swing a helmet at Rudolph’s head or at worst that’s what we should expect most people to do in that situation?

Wow. This may be one of the worst posts I’ve ever read on here. You may want to re-read it, come to your senses, and delete it. 

I realize fans can become attached to players sometimes irrationally but in this case I can’t imagine that most fans would defend what Garret did let alone try and spew some garbage like what else should we have expected.
You are a poster I respect.  That being said, I stand by what I said.  You, the commissioner, and most of America are looking through emotional lenses.  Take a minute or two to review the clip of the incident and then tell me Garrett premeditatedly decided he was going to attack Rudolph with the helmet.  Tell me, after they were separated, that he was looking to attack him at all.  Tell me what he would have done if Rudolph hadn't re-engaged.  My position has never changed.  The helmet ripping was provoked, but still unnecessary.  The swinging was also unnecessary, but not premeditated -- a "heat of the moment" event.  Take your emotional out of it and tell me he's a "goon", cause he's not.

To answer your question, Yes, I believe most people in that situation would swing the helmet -- I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to regain calm that quickly.  Do you know, BTW, where he is & what he's doing right now?

 
You are a poster I respect.  That being said, I stand by what I said.  You, the commissioner, and most of America are looking through emotional lenses.  Take a minute or two to review the clip of the incident and then tell me Garrett premeditatedly decided he was going to attack Rudolph with the helmet.  Tell me, after they were separated, that he was looking to attack him at all.  Tell me what he would have done if Rudolph hadn't re-engaged.  My position has never changed.  The helmet ripping was provoked, but still unnecessary.  The swinging was also unnecessary, but not premeditated -- a "heat of the moment" event.  Take your emotional out of it and tell me he's a "goon", cause he's not.

To answer your question,Yes, I believe most people in that situation would swing the helmet -- I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to regain calm that quickly.  Do you know, BTW, where he is & what he's doing right now?
That's a really sad statement. Was he that scared of a guy he outweighed by 50 pounds while wearing padding and a helmet that he would swing a weapon at him?

I never called him a "goon" but what he did was indefenseable - it doesn't make him a bad person necessarily (and sure he's trying to change that image) but it was a horrendous act and I think he's getting off light.

I won't litter this thread anymore on this subject though. 

 
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That's a really sad statement. Was he that scared of a guy he outweighed by 50 pounds while wearing padding and a helmet that he would swing a weapon at him?

I never called him a "goon" but what he did was indefenseable - it doesn't make him a bad person necessarily (and sure he's trying to change that image) but it was a horrendous act and I think he's getting off light.

I won't litter this thread anymore on this subject though. 
Right, rock called him a goon.  Anyways...

Here's a hypo.  Let's say Myles dropped the helmet when Rudolph made that charging move and Myles planted his right fist on Rudolph's jaw dropping him like a fly.  Would that have been ok?  If not, what are you proposing he should have done in the moment? 

To be clear, I'm not defending the helmet swing or saying that most people would have resorted to that behavior (I don't think that is the case at all).  I just agree with daveR that this was not something premeditated.  It was a very bad reaction in the heat of the moment where a reaction was very likely, it has nothing to do with whether Myles was scared , or not scared, of Mason.

 
Right, rock called him a goon.  Anyways...
That was me. I think his performance last year warranted the moniker. He also broke Siemian's ankle on a questionable hit. He was constantly on the edge of things. Before he was suspended, he was racking up flags and fines.  But I'm done here. I just couldn't believe a couple of the posts that seem to place Rudolph in a fantastical "bad guy" position.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/09/21/myles-garrett-fined-42112-for-two-roughing-penalties/

 
Right, rock called him a goon.  Anyways...

Here's a hypo.  Let's say Myles dropped the helmet when Rudolph made that charging move and Myles planted his right fist on Rudolph's jaw dropping him like a fly.  Would that have been ok?  If not, what are you proposing he should have done in the moment? 

To be clear, I'm not defending the helmet swing or saying that most people would have resorted to that behavior (I don't think that is the case at all).  I just agree with daveR that this was not something premeditated.  It was a very bad reaction in the heat of the moment where a reaction was very likely, it has nothing to do with whether Myles was scared , or not scared, of Mason.
"Premeditated" seems to be the buzz word among Browns' fans as if that makes it better that it wasn't planned. I suppose it does, but not sure that's the leg I would want to stand on. If it makes you guys happy - no I don't think he went into the game thinking he would hit the opposing QB with a helmet and yes it was clearly a "heat of the moment"  type thing. 

As to the bolded, if he thought Rudolph was coming after him in an aggressive matter where he could have done him some harm (which is debatable but we'll assume so for the sake of argument) - if he dropped the helmet and punched him, that would not be a great thing, but it would also at least be arguably justifiable and in that case I would agree that many people may react that way in the heat of the moment. But that's not what happened - he basically tried to smash him in the head with a cinder block with a handle when a guy came up to him angrily screaming in his face.

You guys are trying way too hard here instead of denouncing a bad act by (at the time at least) a bad actor. I'm a bit surprised, and turned off, that you guys want to even go down that road.

It's sad that dave took more offense at rock calling a football player on his favorite team a "goon" than the actual act itself which could be classified as an assault with  a weapon if it happened in the parking lot.

 
Report: Ryan Grigson is back with the Browns front office

An interesting report from NFL.com’s Ian Rapoport states that Ryan Grigson is back working with the Cleveland Browns. Per the report, Grigson is working with new GM Andrew Berry in an advisory role as a consultant to the rookie GM.

Berry and Grigson worked together in Indianapolis when Grigson was the GM of the Colts and Berry was in the scouting department from 2012-2015. Grigson also worked for the Browns as a Senior Personnel Executive in 2017, when Berry was the team’s Vice President of Player Personnel. Since then, the 47-year-old Grigson spent 2018 with Seattle and was out of the NFL in 2019...
Youngest GM in NFL history gets a lil help.  

He was the GM when the Colts made these picks.  Started off hot picking Andrew Luck and got T.Y. Hilton.

2015

  • 1#29 Phillip Dorsett WR Miami (FL)
  •  2 #65 D'Joun Smith DB Florida Atlantic
  •  3 #93 Henry Anderson DE Stanford
  •  4 #109 Clayton Geathers DB Central Florida
  •  5 #151 David Parry DT Stanford
  • 6 #205J osh Robinson RB Mississippi State
  •  6 #207 Amarlo HerreraLBGeorgia
  •  7 #255 Denzell Goode T Mars Hill
2014

  • 2 #59 Jack Mewhort T Ohio State
  • 3 # 90Donte Moncrief WR Mississippi
  • 5 #166 Jonathan Newsome DE Ball State
  • 6 #203 Andrew Jackson LB Western Kentucky
  •  7 #232 Ulrick John T Georgia State
2013

  • 1 #24 Bjoern Werner DE Florida State
  •  3 #86 Hugh Thornton G Illinois
  • 4 #121 Khaled Holmes C USC
  •  4 #139 Montori Hughes DT Tennessee-Martin
  • 6 #192 John Boyett DB Oregon
  • 7 #230 Kerwynn Williams RB Utah State
  •  7 #254 Justice Cunningham TE South Carolina
2012

  • 1 #1 Andrew Luck QB Stanford
  •  2 #34 Coby Fleener TE Stanford
  • 3 #64 Dwayne Allen TE Clemson
  •  3 #92 T.Y. Hilton WR Florida International
  • 5 #136Josh ChapmanDTAlabama
  •  6 #170 Vick Ballard RB Mississippi State
  • 7 #206 LaVon Brazill WR Ohio
  • 7 #208 Justin Anderson T Georgia
  • 7 #214 Tim Fugger DEV anderbilt
  • 7 #253 Chandler Harnish QB Northern Illinois
Stefanski has former HC Calahan and Berry has former GM Grigson.  

 
You guys are trying way too hard here instead of denouncing a bad act by (at the time at least) a bad actor. I'm a bit surprised, and turned off, that you guys want to even go down that road.
The only thing I'm trying way too hard to do is move on.  Posters here are happy he's reinstated and there is nothing wrong with that.  People get plenty of re-do's in this game we call life, let's allow that to happen in this case as well.  The action was completely wrong and the penalty was served in full.  If people want to believe in their mind he's a "goon" forever or want to argue the penalty was still too light, then so bet it, but you can still move on with everyone else and stop antagonizing in here, or at least go post it in the Myles thread.  I think it's pretty easy to see that nothing good will come out of it here in this thread.  We're happy our star defender is back for game #1 next season and while I don't normally like speaking others, I have to imagine you would be too.

 
When the best I can come up with is maybe he learned from his past mistakes and at least he's not in a decision making role...tough to be anything but skeptical. Cronyism is very real though. And I think we needed more experience in the front office. So I don't hate it...but if we now start penny pinching on the OL I may get punchy.

 
The only thing I'm trying way too hard to do is move on.  Posters here are happy he's reinstated and there is nothing wrong with that.  People get plenty of re-do's in this game we call life, let's allow that to happen in this case as well.  The action was completely wrong and the penalty was served in full.  If people want to believe in their mind he's a "goon" forever or want to argue the penalty was still too light, then so bet it, but you can still move on with everyone else and stop antagonizing in here, or at least go post it in the Myles thread.  I think it's pretty easy to see that nothing good will come out of it here in this thread.  We're happy our star defender is back for game #1 next season and while I don't normally like speaking others, I have to imagine you would be too.
Well I surely didn't come in here to antagonize anyone and would not have commented about Garrett at all until I saw daveR's disturbing take on it. I probably should not have responded to it though.

I can agree that fans ultimately are willing to forgive and move on when a player is a star on their team. I'm sure I've done it was well - although I rooted against Vick being successful even after he joined the Jets.

 
I dunno...it's not that I don't wish the young man Myles well or anything, or that I hope Baker Mayfield gains more weight in the offseason, or that you hire a GM that oversaw Andrew Luck's tenure and drafted questionable TEs and WRs and sort of sunk the ship with no OL -- I just can't stay away from the Cleveland thread. :shrug:

 
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I dunno...it's not that I don't wish the young man Myles well or anything, or that I hope Baker Mayfield gains more weight in the offseason, or that you hire a GM that oversaw Andrew Luck's tenure and drafted questionable TEs and WRs and sort of sunk the ship with no OL -- I just can't stay away from the Cleveland thread. :shrug:
still obsessed with Bakers weight, lol!

i think Mayfield will put in the work.  I’m pretty sure Garrett won’t smash any more opposing players with their own gear. 
 

beyond that, i’m not very hopeful because Haslam is going to be more involved than ever.
 

enjoy the dumpster fire #### show, rock! 

 
still obsessed with Bakers weight, lol!

enjoy the dumpster fire #### show, rock! 
So obsessed.

I would take you up on the schadenfreude invite but I cannot enjoy the dumpster fire because I know too well how it feels. That said, I earnestly don't like the way things are trending for Cleveland. That GM/office really messed the Colts up best I can remember and if Haslam gets back involved -- somehow they seemed to keep him at bay the past two years from what I read in the national press -- I'm really disheartened for you all. 

 
I would take you up on the schadenfreude invite but I cannot enjoy the dumpster fire because I know too well how it feels. That said, I earnestly don't like the way things are trending for Cleveland. That GM/office really messed the Colts up best I can remember and if Haslam gets back involved -- somehow they seemed to keep him at bay the past two years from what I read in the national press -- I'm really disheartened for you all. 
at least i don’t have any hope this time.  
 

i expect to be disappointed.  

 
MAC_32 said:
When the best I can come up with is maybe he learned from his past mistakes and at least he's not in a decision making role...tough to be anything but skeptical. Cronyism is very real though. And I think we needed more experience in the front office. So I don't hate it...but if we now start penny pinching on the OL I may get punchy.
Well, the only top-ten pick he had turned into a Pro Bowler who helped them turn around a losing team and the only O-Line pick taken with a top pick turned into one of the best interior offensive linemen before injuries took a toll and he retired early.

One of my main concerns with Berry is just lack of experience.  Dorsey could turn a trade and 'seemed' to come out on top a lot. 

You know I doubt Berry's player evaluation skills and wanted a football guy around and considering the FO asked Dorsey to stick around in a player personnel position after they demoted him, it appears they wanted an experienced football guy assisting/double checking(?) Berry's evaluations.  I agree with the move in principal but feel its only a temporary 'training wheels' move to help get things started.  No one is ready to be a first time NFL GM or HC so I like both moves, Callahan/Grigson.

 
Well, the only top-ten pick he had turned into a Pro Bowler who helped them turn around a losing team and the only O-Line pick taken with a top pick turned into one of the best interior offensive linemen before injuries took a toll and he retired early.

One of my main concerns with Berry is just lack of experience.  Dorsey could turn a trade and 'seemed' to come out on top a lot. 

You know I doubt Berry's player evaluation skills and wanted a football guy around and considering the FO asked Dorsey to stick around in a player personnel position after they demoted him, it appears they wanted an experienced football guy assisting/double checking(?) Berry's evaluations.  I agree with the move in principal but feel its only a temporary 'training wheels' move to help get things started.  No one is ready to be a first time NFL GM or HC so I like both moves, Callahan/Grigson.
Saying the Colts roster construction under Grigson was abysmal would be putting it nicely. Andrew Luck's career was (probably) cut short in large part because of his ineptitude as a GM. The team was as successful as it was because of how strong that QB was. He elevated everything around him despite management and coaches consistently putting him terrible spots. I'm not going to dig much into how much the players on the team hated him; there's an argument it's a good thing for there to be friction/distance between front office management and player personnel. I think it's important to note that a higher level of hostility than normal existed though.

That said, he's not in charge in this role. Like most gigs in the NFL, he probably got to where he was more due to who he knew than what he knew. But it's difficult to imagine he was a total dummy in a personnel eval role to get to that point. He probably just got Peter Principled when put in charge. Narrow the scope of his role and he could be an asset. But nothing he did in Indy should be cited as a reason for optimism here.

 
Saying the Colts roster construction under Grigson was abysmal would be putting it nicely. Andrew Luck's career was (probably) cut short in large part because of his ineptitude as a GM. The team was as successful as it was because of how strong that QB was. He elevated everything around him despite management and coaches consistently putting him terrible spots. I'm not going to dig much into how much the players on the team hated him; there's an argument it's a good thing for there to be friction/distance between front office management and player personnel. I think it's important to note that a higher level of hostility than normal existed though.

That said, he's not in charge in this role. Like most gigs in the NFL, he probably got to where he was more due to who he knew than what he knew. But it's difficult to imagine he was a total dummy in a personnel eval role to get to that point. He probably just got Peter Principled when put in charge. Narrow the scope of his role and he could be an asset. But nothing he did in Indy should be cited as a reason for optimism here.
Grigson is the GM who TRADED A 1ST ROUND PICK FOR TRENT RICHARDSON so I know he was terrible and hardly any GMs get a second chance but he  has done it and Berry had a good relationship with him and he'll lean on him if he's got questions and he'll have questions.  

He only had one high pick in four years and  nailed it.  

He only drafted one O-Lineman high in four years and Mewhort was really good when healthy.

We've got a top-ten pick and need quality O-Linemen but mostly I'm pleased Berry has someone who has done the job assisting him.  Just knowing the landscape, Grigson made a positive connection with Berry, he probably has other connections that could be helpful.

 
I just can't stay away from the Cleveland thread. :shrug:
Like a moth to a flame. It's intoxicating sometimes. Then sometimes it's just best to be intoxicated :thumbup:

Saying the Colts roster construction under Grigson was abysmal would be putting it nicely.
I get bringing in some help for the young front office but I kinda look at it like Mac here, Grigson doesn't have a great body of work to throw on the table if you're looking at the Colts IMO.

 
The impression I get is that Haslam is tired of the backstabbing and dysfunction, so he's going to put together an organization that "plays nice".  I'm worried about their lack of experience and/or results from the previous go-round.  Remember Corey Coleman?  He was an analytics pick.  Great computer numbers, ten cent head.

 

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