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wadegarrett

**** CLEVELAND BROWNS THREAD ****

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two rookies on OL = loss.  
 

 

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final prediction:

 

floor:  8-8

ceiling:  10-6

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2 hours ago, amnesiac said:

two rookies on OL = loss.  

Lots of reasons we may lose, but that ain't it. Y'all ripped last year's OL unit to shreds and we still romped in this game. 

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9 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

Lots of reasons we may lose, but that ain't it. Y'all ripped last year's OL unit to shreds and we still romped in this game. 

Agreed, Think it's going to be a high scoring game from both teams.

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Two things that concern me: 

Will BAL look like the well-oiled machine that KC did (ie picking up where they left off)? 

What's Jed's timetable look like on his way to  stardom?

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14 hours ago, MAC_32 said:

Lots of reasons we may lose, but that ain't it. Y'all ripped last year's OL unit to shreds and we still romped in this game. 

so you’re taking the field on why they lose.  
 

sounds like a Mac move.  

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5 hours ago, PizzaDeliveryGuy said:

:toilet:

I think we all knew they were going to #### the bed this weekend.  
 

hopefully they can bounce back against the Bengals at home Thursday.  
 

if not, it could be another long season.  

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21 hours ago, MAC_32 said:

Lots of reasons we may lose, but that ain't it. Y'all ripped last year's OL unit to shreds and we still romped in this game. 

Mayfield was running for his life most of the game. 
 

at least he’s learned to throw the ball away.  

Edited by amnesiac

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9 hours ago, amnesiac said:

so you’re taking the field on why they lose.  
 

sounds like a Mac move.  

Nah, we didn't lose cause of the OL. We lost cause of everything. My bar was quite low, but that didn't even reach it.

Hopefully the ole nfl rules sticks for Thursday - teams are at their best when we are expecting the worst. 

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Lots to complain about, but that's nothing new.  

Anybody got a JPG of an orange helmet with a dog bone on it?  I want to give out weekly "Bone Head" awards. Nothing gripes me like veterans committing unforced errors. 

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On 9/9/2020 at 4:12 PM, The Man With No Name said:

Hope I'm wrong but I am feeling a blowout by Baltimore

 

On 9/10/2020 at 9:51 AM, beer 30 said:

Not thinking a blowout but I'm not feeling a win either. Too many negatives in the column to have confidence against that team. Having Garrett back will be huge for the D and I'd like to think the offense will look 100 times better than last year with an adult at the helm, just don't think they've had enough time to bring all the changes together into a cohesive unit. I think they will get there just not this week. Make me a believer boys!

Yea never mind, same ole same ole...a 1-19-1 record, 15 losses AT HOME, and an NFL record 13 straight losses in the opener :coffee:

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A few teams weren't ready for the opener.  Rookie HC calling plays, special teams looked really-really-really bad.

Rookie OLT looked 'good' in pass-pro even with the one hold call which was a 'good' hold on his part.  Running game produced very well when used but I think I saw a few 'stumbles' by the rookie on a few push blocks in the slide-zone scheme but every time I checked his pass-pro he looked very good.  He got lots of help from Bitonio but he looked really good from my POV.

Baker, ugh.  Its the first game and the overall team wasn't ready but lots of the same miscues with OBJ.  His INT was a tip at the LOS and he had another tip so he's got to clean that up.  The Ravens have some of the best CBs in the game and were excellent in coverage but it seemed like he held the ball too long trying to find stuff downfield or left easy pickings hoping for a big gain.  

Everything done this off-season was set-up for Baker and he didn't produce.  The O-Line is not perfect but they did their job, he had a lot of time.  He was simply off.  The clock is ticking.  He needs to step up.  

Short week so its a bad game to evaluate, Jed is hurt so if he can't play our line could be an issue Thursday.  

Consider yesterday a preseason game.  The team wasn't ready.  Garrett got handled 'again' by the Ravens, one solo and one QB pressure.  I'm looking for a big bounce back game by the defense facing a rookie QB.  

The rest of the season is about evaluating Baker and the rookie HC at this point.  Short week but Stefanski has to field a team that looks ready to play Thursday.

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25 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Short week so its a bad game to evaluate, Jed is hurt so if he can't play our line could be an issue Thursday.  

I disagree. This is a great opportunity to see how they all bounce back through some adversity. This is reality in the NFL. How will you react to some things beyond your control going sideways? 

25 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Consider yesterday a preseason game.  The team wasn't ready.  Garrett got handled 'again' by the Ravens, one solo and one QB pressure.  I'm looking for a big bounce back game by the defense facing a rookie QB.  

Our defense showed some signs of life in the first half when we won up front. We clearly didn't win enough though. Ingram and Bosa, among others, ran free around the Bengals line yesterday. I will be scathing mad if the DL isn't a force Thursday. 

25 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

The rest of the season is about evaluating Baker 

Agree with this part. I'm not adding Stefanski to the plate after one game, but that move to start force feeding Beckham has my eyebrow raised. The start to the game was uneven, but we seemed to be establishing a rhythm then that happened. The game came unraveled those next 3 drives. If you're going to do that then I think you have to do it at the outset...not shoehorn it midstream. 

But this season was always about figuring out if Baker's the guy. He was given the tools to be successful in the offseason. I'm not going to put his head on a pike after one lemon, especially when considering that offseason. But to state the obvious, he can't do that again. 

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Ravens fan here, I actually thought the Browns showed some promising signs but the game just got away from them. OBJ dropping that first down conversion led to a 10-point (or more) swing and then the 99-yard drive put the game into trash time. Once they abandoned Chubb, it was over.

But I was very impressed with both running backs. For the entire first half, if the Ravens DL didn't stuff the play at the line, they were immediately into the secondary. The Ravens' LBs weren't making any plays on the RBs. It felt really strange how much they forced the ball to OBJ, they were much more successful doing literally anything else.

Also the Run D shut down the Ravens running attack big time. Maybe they were overloading the box and daring Baltimore to beat them throwing the ball - which they did, but it's a sensible strategy. This was the offense that shattered a 40-year old rushing record by averaging 200+ ypg last year and they didn't crack 100 until the end. Special teams were a disaster in every phase. 

Depending on the spread, I might actually beat on Cleveland this week. I think it was a growing pains game and that the Browns are better than they showed.

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There a reason we aren't talking to Eric Reid right now? Asking for a friend

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1 hour ago, The_Man said:

Ravens fan here, I actually thought the Browns showed some promising signs but the game just got away from them. OBJ dropping that first down conversion led to a 10-point (or more) swing and then the 99-yard drive put the game into trash time. Once they abandoned Chubb, it was over.

But I was very impressed with both running backs. For the entire first half, if the Ravens DL didn't stuff the play at the line, they were immediately into the secondary. The Ravens' LBs weren't making any plays on the RBs. It felt really strange how much they forced the ball to OBJ, they were much more successful doing literally anything else.

Also the Run D shut down the Ravens running attack big time. Maybe they were overloading the box and daring Baltimore to beat them throwing the ball - which they did, but it's a sensible strategy. This was the offense that shattered a 40-year old rushing record by averaging 200+ ypg last year and they didn't crack 100 until the end. Special teams were a disaster in every phase. 

Depending on the spread, I might actually beat on Cleveland this week. I think it was a growing pains game and that the Browns are better than they showed.

Thanks for your pity but I'll have none of it :D

Your team beat us in every phase of the game and pretty soundly. Your boys look like they didn't lose a step from last year.

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14 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

There a reason we aren't talking to Eric Reid right now? Asking for a friend

There's a reason we traded for Ronnie Harrison and I think we saw it yesterday. Only question is whether we'll see more of him Thursday or not til week 3.

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22 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

There's a reason we traded for Ronnie Harrison and I think we saw it yesterday. Only question is whether we'll see more of him Thursday or not til week 3.

From what I saw yesterday, we have room for both and any friends they might have.

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10 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

From what I saw yesterday, we have room for both and any friends they might have.

Don't disagree, especially cause we lost Jacob Phillips for a long time too. May not be worth it til the long week on the other side though. 

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That was fugly, but I’m not too surprised. 
 

Getting completely fed up with the OBJ sulkfest every game. Gave him a bunch of passes last year, but for good reasons imo. Embarrassing yesterday.  

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Cutting the kicker after getting crushed in Week 1 seems like a move bad teams make. I mean, yeah, you can’t have kickers missing field goals and extra points, but when you lose by 32 points, sacrificing the kicker seems awfully hollow. It’s not like he missed a 35 point field goal.

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21 hours ago, MAC_32 said:

I disagree. This is a great opportunity to see how they all bounce back through some adversity. This is reality in the NFL. How will you react to some things beyond your control going sideways? 

Short weeks lack time to recover from normal wear and tear let alone injuries.  

If we had a standard NFL rookie/mini/training camp and preseason we could have had a 'feel' heading into that first game.  

Historically short weeks are the worst games of the week and that is due to fatigue, bumps/bruises/injuries.

Its a bad game to evaluate where the team is and its not just about the Browns, we might look good at some area that is beat up or we might look bad for the same reason providing a 'false positive/negative'.

Former Miami MLB Zach Thomas said that defenses tend to be healthy and have 'tighter' fits in run defenses because guys are healthy and in position for the first five weeks but that once bumps and bruises pile up those 'tight fits' get loose because one guy is a step slower, and then another guy, etc.  

Short weeks are not good to evaluate where a team is.

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59 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Short weeks are not good to evaluate where a team is.

Maybe not but as a friend of mine likes to say, "it might not be the day you want but it's the day you got." I'll be evaluating them.

11 hours ago, GroveDiesel said:

Cutting the kicker after getting crushed in Week 1 seems like a move bad teams make. I mean, yeah, you can’t have kickers missing field goals and extra points, but when you lose by 32 points, sacrificing the kicker seems awfully hollow. It’s not like he missed a 35 point field goal.

Plenty of spots to point the finger but I won't lose sleep about cutting Seibert. Just like I won't when they cut Parky. We haven't had a dependable kicker in years. 31 other teams seem to have figured it out at that position (except maybe the Titans). I feel like we can figure this out with the horsepower in the front office but it seems elusive to the Browns. Kinda like winning.

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Just now, beer 30 said:
1 hour ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Short weeks are not good to evaluate where a team is.

Maybe not but as a friend of mine likes to say, "it might not be the day you want but it's the day you got." I'll be evaluating them.

Short weeks are the worst games of the week for good reason. 

Belichick said he doesn't know what sort of a team he has until the 5th game and he said that well before COVID.

Over reactions are based on evaluations with bad data.

What sort of conclusions do you expect from evaluating the game this week that you don't already know or suspect?  OBJ/Baker chemistry issue?  LBers/DBs/overall D suspect?  O-Line with rookies and injuries ain't looking good?  Clock ticking on rookie HC?  Should he be calling plays?  I can already see the sports headlines.

I'm not thinking we'll see groundbreaking concrete analysis based off short week early in the season but people will definitely be evaluating and drawing conclusions.

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Just now, Bracie Smathers said:

Short weeks are the worst games of the week for good reason. 

Belichick said he doesn't know what sort of a team he has until the 5th game and he said that well before COVID.

Over reactions are based on evaluations with bad data.

What sort of conclusions do you expect from evaluating the game this week that you don't already know or suspect?  OBJ/Baker chemistry issue?  LBers/DBs/overall D suspect?  O-Line with rookies and injuries ain't looking good?  Clock ticking on rookie HC?  Should he be calling plays?  I can already see the sports headlines.

I'm not thinking we'll see groundbreaking concrete analysis based off short week early in the season but people will definitely be evaluating and drawing conclusions.

Beckham to remove his head from his ###. A more decisive Baker. Rhythm. A forceful defensive front. Assertiveness in the secondary; not playing on your heels. 

I agree that early conclusions about one's team cannot be drawn until at least sometime in October, but what happens Thursday is a part of that puzzle.

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2 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

Beckham to remove his head from his ###. A more decisive Baker. Rhythm. A forceful defensive front. Assertiveness in the secondary; not playing on your heels. 

I agree that early conclusions about one's team cannot be drawn until at least sometime in October, but what happens Thursday is a part of that puzzle.

Then we agree unless you are just dying to disagree in which case why?

 

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16 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Short weeks are the worst games of the week for good reason. 

Belichick said he doesn't know what sort of a team he has until the 5th game and he said that well before COVID.

Over reactions are based on evaluations with bad data.

What sort of conclusions do you expect from evaluating the game this week that you don't already know or suspect?  OBJ/Baker chemistry issue?  LBers/DBs/overall D suspect?  O-Line with rookies and injuries ain't looking good?  Clock ticking on rookie HC?  Should he be calling plays?  I can already see the sports headlines.

I'm not thinking we'll see groundbreaking concrete analysis based off short week early in the season but people will definitely be evaluating and drawing conclusions.

Progress on fixing all the things you mentioned. I'm not making a "sit Baker for Keenum" or "trade Beckham" decision off this game but I need to see improvement on all those fronts to at least have some confidence in this team going forward. I don't think that's too much to ask, short week or not. 31 other teams have to do the same thing this year. I want to see them get better and get competitive.

That doesn't exactly translate to them winning the game either although it sure would be nice to see a victory on Thursday night. I need to see progress and addressing the issues we saw in game 1. We've all seen losing at a level unprecedented in the NFL throughout our fandom. I'd like to see them get the running game going, stick with it and dominate on both lines. That alone would be an improvement over Sunday and open up a lot of possibilities.

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On 9/10/2020 at 9:45 AM, beer 30 said:

The only point of contention I have with your post and it's not even football related:

https://youtu.be/fvlzNtLfdUk

I've also seen him in Hulu commercials. Surprised he gets so many endorsements - although the "home" ones are mostly funny.

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I usually want to examine things closely for myself.  In this case, I'd like to understand why Siebert missed the kicks.  Can anyone tell me how I can see a replay of a specific play?

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1 hour ago, daveR said:

I usually want to examine things closely for myself.  In this case, I'd like to understand why Siebert missed the kicks.  Can anyone tell me how I can see a replay of a specific play?

Go to this LINK

Seibert misses the extra point at 3:15

Seibert misses the FG attempt at 6:20

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at home against a rookie QB.

 

if they don't win this game, this season is toast.

 

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What a massive disappointment this team is.  Team tanked for years, hoarded 1st rounders, loaded up on both sides of the ball, bring in Landry and OBJ, talks of 12-4 last year, laid an egg, now embarrassed in week 1.  They need to make Chubb their Henry.  

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Just now, Judge Smails said:

What a massive disappointment this team is.  Team tanked for years, hoarded 1st rounders, loaded up on both sides of the ball, bring in Landry and OBJ, talks of 12-4 last year, laid an egg, now embarrassed in week 1.  They need to make Chubb their Henry.  

Dorsey acquired a collection of talent; he didn't build a team. Putting that puzzle together is going to take more time than most have the patience for.

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Running game is what we thought it could be.

Defense didn't have a bounce-back game.  Two data points, giving up 68 points in first two games.  Just bad.

OBJ isn't dead.  Rookie TE is impressing.  Rookie OLT very-impressive.  

Kick coverage is a problem.  Myles is awesome.  

WFT got 8 sacks against banged-up Philly O-Line in their opener.  Chase Young, Ryan Kerrigan, and Montez Sweat their first round draft pick from last year are going to be a good test.  

Hopefully the extra time to heal will be enough to get Olivier Vernon and Adrian Clayborn, and Greedy back because that defense can't be giving up 30 burgers every week.

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Page 8 when we are 2-1 for the first time since 2014. CLE fans really can't stand prosperity. 

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2 hours ago, beer 30 said:

Page 8 when we are 2-1 for the first time since 2014. CLE fans really can't stand prosperity. 

The legitimacy test isn't for 5 more days. I've been postponing my over reaction one way or the other til then from the outset.

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damned either way.  


if they lose to Dallas, the fans will whine “Same old Browns!!”

 

if they win, then I will have to listen to chants of “SUPERBOWL!!!!”

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On 9/18/2020 at 9:39 AM, Bracie Smathers said:

Running game is what we thought it could be.  - Did fine against a D-line that had an injury to a major player but our run game is legit built on strength of best tandem RBs in the NFL, a very-good O-Line, a solid scheme and commitment, and one of the best O-Line coaches.

Defense didn't have a bounce-back game.  Two data points, giving up 68 points in first two games.  Just bad. - Faced Haskins who helped a great deal but it was a bounce, probably a dead cat bounce but a bounce.  This week is a real test and Dak is scary-mobile.

OBJ isn't dead.  Rookie TE is impressing.  Rookie OLT very-impressive.  - OBJ is fine but the scheme is set up for run.  Rookie TE got his first score, nice.  Rookie OT had a bad quarter but Baker didn't do him any favors either.

Kick coverage is a problem.  Myles is awesome.  - Kick coverage 'may' have improved.  Myles is super-duper awesome.

WFT got 8 sacks against banged-up Philly O-Line in their opener.  Chase Young, Ryan Kerrigan, and Montez Sweat their first round draft pick from last year are going to be a good test.  - WFT has a legit pass rush and they got to Baker.  Sweat is coming on, pick him up if available in IDP leagues.

Hopefully the extra time to heal will be enough to get Olivier Vernon and Adrian Clayborn, and Greedy back because that defense can't be giving up 30 burgers every week. - Oliver hasn't done anything this year.  Clayborn got a pressure and is a great pick-up.  Greedy has been a disappointment.  Hopefully he can get back and contribute.

First game Lamar Jackson mobile QB tore our secondary apart.  Burrows a mobile QB did the same.  Haskins was terrible.  Dak ripped Seattle apart with his arm and legs.  Hopefully Myles can grab a shirt     tail - VIDEO  🎥

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DT Sheldon Richardson has looked great so-far this year.  Ogun has looked much better as well but just saw this from PFF about our rookie 3rd round draft pick DT:

Quote

The Browns look like they got one of the steals of the draft in third-round defensive tackle Jordan Elliott. His 77.0 overall grade is the highest of any rookie with at least 50 snaps — don’t be surprised to see his snap counts rise as the season wears on after playing only 82 through three games.

I haven't noticed him but our run-D is pretty good this year.  We'll get a big time test with Zeke Sunday but has anyone noticed the rookie 3rd round DT Jordan Elliot?  PFF seems to like him and say he is playing better than any rookie with 50 snaps.  Highest of ANY ROOKIE.  

Anyone have a take on the kid?

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Posted (edited)

Joe Thomas talking smack to Michael Irvin about Sunday's Browns/Cowboys game ( NFLN). Wager was made Loser of  game has to wear jorts next Thursday. 

Edited by The Man With No Name

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21 hours ago, Bracie Smathers said:

DT Sheldon Richardson has looked great so-far this year.  Ogun has looked much better as well but just saw this from PFF about our rookie 3rd round draft pick DT:

I haven't noticed him but our run-D is pretty good this year.  We'll get a big time test with Zeke Sunday but has anyone noticed the rookie 3rd round DT Jordan Elliot?  PFF seems to like him and say he is playing better than any rookie with 50 snaps.  Highest of ANY ROOKIE.  

Anyone have a take on the kid?

Like you, haven't noticed him. Will be looking for #61 on the field Sunday though. Our DL has been quietly getting the job done the last few weeks. A couple of splash plays but no 5 sack games. They should have the last two weeks so I've been more focused on the OL than the DL but I think that flips this week.

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