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wadegarrett

**** CLEVELAND BROWNS THREAD ****

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1 hour ago, mr fancypants said:

Going to be interesting in the next few weeks to see how Higgens, DPJ, and Bryant pick up the receiving slack.

I think we’ve already seen what they will do.  can they keep it up?  hopefully.  
 

I think we will see addition by subtraction.  
 

not hating on Beckham, but for whatever reason, he and Mayfield just never clicked.  

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14 hours ago, Soulfly3 said:

I need to buy a new TV remote after smashing mine against the coffee table, thus breaking it into pieces, after the Burrow TD.

gave us literally 0 shot at the comeback. 

i still don't know how to react

Obviously, have a little bit of faith. You of all people, have a little faith.

Good win, rookie Baker decided to show up at an opportune time. Can't say enough about how the WR have stepped up. They had 3 healthy WR on their roster (one with a broken rib) to win that game. Great job by the offense.

Defense...well we knew it was going to be like this so don't really have much to say. Garrett & Ward almost single handedly kept them in the game as much as giving up 34 points is keeping them in the game. Watch this a few times to appreciate the play, don't recall ever seeing one like this before https://twitter.com/clevezirm/status/1320554231686778880

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8 hours ago, amnesiac said:

I think we’ve already seen what they will do.  can they keep it up?  hopefully.  
 

I think we will see addition by subtraction.  
 

not hating on Beckham, but for whatever reason, he and Mayfield just never clicked.  

I'm not jumping to this conclusion just yet, but...I'm also not arguing it. It's going to be the talking point for an indefinite period of time after Beckham's season officially ends sometime today though. Should Baker play like he did yesterday while also dealing with a legitimate pass rush? Then, yeah, this is it. Ultimately, I think the Bungles lack of pressure yesterday had more to do with what we saw than Beckham's removal. How much more is my particular unanswered question. I think losing the threat of Beckham will be problematic against the league's better defenses, but that would only be a priority to address if I thought we were competing for a title this year. We aren't.

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If losing OBJ signals the return of Chubb, I'm okay with it.  Stump said he's recovering well, and his timetable is mid-Nov.  With LV and then a bye, it will feel like addition by subtraction when Chubb returns.  

I'd like to see the FO start looking at possible moves, especially at Safety and Pass Rush.  Everytime I see Sendejo's name, I shudder.  He is always late to a play or missing a tackle.  They need to bring in some more playmakers on D.  Outside of Myles and Ward, there aren't many making plays on a consistent basis. 

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2 hours ago, beer 30 said:

Defense...well we knew it was going to be like this so don't really have much to say. Garrett & Ward almost single handedly kept them in the game

Outside of Myles no-one in the front-seven is proving any semblance of pass rush forcing us to blitz safeties and that exposes the secondary even more.  400 + yards?  We couldn't stop em.  Olivier Vernon is a shell of what he once was before we traded for him.  Adrian Clayborn 'looked' ok early in the season before he got hurt and has done nothing since.  Ogun started out looking good but got injured and he's done nothing and yesterday he sucked.

We really need pass rusher(S).  Myles is getting TRIPLE TEAMED so someone 'should' get pressure.

2 hours ago, MAC_32 said:

I'm not jumping to this conclusion just yet

People had the leap to conclusion mat out for Baker till halftime so everyone has to step away because this is going to keep going since OBJ may not be able to do anything the rest of the year, haven't heard how bad the injury is yet.  

We saw how Njuko scored and can be useful after people wanted to deal him and if OBJ is out the rest of the year we will need him and all hands because we went from a position of strength to counting on a rookie who hadn't caught a pass all year to win the game.  Great story but DPJ is no OBJ.  Baker isn't going to face zero pressure the rest of the year.  If/when we make the playoffs and if OBJ can make it back then it is 'likely' we may be beaten up and will need fresh legs.  I'm not eager to deal anyone when we are on the verge of 'potentially' making the post season later this year. 

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1 hour ago, Peak said:

If losing OBJ signals the return of Chubb, I'm okay with it.  Stump said he's recovering well, and his timetable is mid-Nov.  With LV and then a bye, it will feel like addition by subtraction when Chubb returns.  

I'd like to see the FO start looking at possible moves, especially at Safety and Pass Rush.  Everytime I see Sendejo's name, I shudder.  He is always late to a play or missing a tackle.  They need to bring in some more playmakers on D.  Outside of Myles and Ward, there aren't many making plays on a consistent basis. 

I agree, but unless they are part of the solution 2021 and beyond I'm not interested in them. If we ever get a game with both Joseph and Harrison healthy hopefully that means Sendejo's load gets scaled back. He's just one of many problems throughout this defense though.

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8 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

People had the leap to conclusion mat out for Baker till halftime so everyone has to step away because this is going to keep going

Of course. We live in an instant reaction hot take society. It isn't the right approach, but their being wrong isn't going to get them to change their wrongness. 

And I agree with you about Chief. I saw the case for him being expendable before yesterday, but without Beckham we need talent that requires attention down field. He's really the only viable piece remaining in the arsenal. As a result I think we'll see more of the Njoku package against stronger defenses. As clunky as the relationship has been between Baker and Beckham defenses still at least took his down field threat seriously, but that is obviously no more.

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Being reported ACL for OBJ = OUT

Carry on

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chubb is 1000x more important than OBJ. fact we are 5-2 without chubb honestly shocks me.

that being said, our run game desperately needs im back. hunt has done a great job filling in, but it's still day and night to me w chubb there. man just plows and jukes and powers and does exactly what your dream RB should do... NEED that 2 headed monster back so we can use hunt as a receiver more often

Edited by Soulfly3

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I like Hunt alot, but there is no comparison to Chubb. Awesome tandem for sure though.

Problem with Sendejo is he doesn't even deserve to be rostered let alone get playing time.  Sucks we lost Delpit and have had issues getting Harrison and Joseph on the field together, but still think we deserve better than Sendejo and what he's brought to the table.

It still literally boggles my mind that we've had several coaches and GMs bury Higgins. Please tell me Hodge isn't coming back this week and Higgins will be inactive again.  What a nightmare.  

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20 hours ago, Bobcat10 said:

I like Hunt alot, but there is no comparison to Chubb. Awesome tandem for sure though.

Problem with Sendejo is he doesn't even deserve to be rostered let alone get playing time.  Sucks we lost Delpit and have had issues getting Harrison and Joseph on the field together, but still think we deserve better than Sendejo and what he's brought to the table.

It still literally boggles my mind that we've had several coaches and GMs bury Higgins. Please tell me Hodge isn't coming back this week and Higgins will be inactive again.  What a nightmare.  

Personally I think Hunt has been hurt since about three games ago, between the hamstring he had earlier and ribs he's playing hurt and gutting it out.

Sendejo was not supposed to be anything more than a spell player, giving guys a breather when needed. Injuries put him into the starting lineup unfortunately. Think there are options out there in FA that we can bring in and instantly upgrade that position to at least expected as opposed to turrible.

All reports from Stefanski yesterday said Hodge will be active this week. That will give us 4 healthy (sorta) WR's. Think there will be plenty of snaps to go around.

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11 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

Personally I think Hunt has been hurt since about three games ago, between the hamstring he had earlier and ribs he's playing hurt and gutting it out.

Sendejo was not supposed to be anything more than a spell player, giving guys a breather when needed. Injuries put him into the starting lineup unfortunately. Think there are options out there in FA that we can bring in and instantly upgrade that position to at least expected as opposed to turrible.

All reports from Stefanski yesterday said Hodge will be active this week. That will give us 4 healthy (sorta) WR's. Think there will be plenty of snaps to go around.

:yes: to the bolded.

:no: to the underlined.

Unfortunately, if Sendejo's getting replaced in the next week then it's probably via trade. The guys on the street either have baggage or are the same guy as Sendejo only with a different name on the jersey. A guy like him can be masked with strong enough LB play, but this defense was intentionally built thin at that position then also experienced injury there.

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56 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

:yes: to the bolded.

:no: to the underlined.

Unfortunately, if Sendejo's getting replaced in the next week then it's probably via trade. The guys on the street either have baggage or are the same guy as Sendejo only with a different name on the jersey. A guy like him can be masked with strong enough LB play, but this defense was intentionally built thin at that position then also experienced injury there.

You telling me Eric Reid (my pick) or Earl Thomas isn't an instant upgrade over Sendejo Clark? C'mon man

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5 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

You telling me Eric Reid (my pick) or Earl Thomas isn't an instant upgrade over Sendejo Clark? C'mon man

Concerning the latter, I think you missed a key word in my post - 'baggage.' I said it before and Sendejo continuing to suck doesn't change it. The culture of this team is not in a place to consider a toxin like him. Hard pass.

I'd be receptive to Reid though. 

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what happened to wadegarrett?

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9 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

Concerning the latter, I think you missed a key word in my post - 'baggage.' I said it before and Sendejo continuing to suck doesn't change it. The culture of this team is not in a place to consider a toxin like him. Hard pass.

I'd be receptive to Reid though. 

Ok then :D

Agree on the baggage part, I don't want Thomas anywhere near this team but there's no denying he would be an upgrade over Sendejo. I follow you on Strava, you would be an upgrade over Sendjo.

Reid has been my pick since day one, brings different baggage but that's all being embraced now so I would think he'd be an easy, low risk pick up.

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1 hour ago, beer 30 said:

 

Reid has been my pick since day one, brings different baggage but that's all being embraced now so I would think he'd be an easy, low risk pick up.

i agree.  they should sign him before Washington Football Team does.

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5 hours ago, beer 30 said:

Personally I think Hunt has been hurt since about three games ago, between the hamstring he had earlier and ribs he's playing hurt and gutting it out.

Sendejo was not supposed to be anything more than a spell player, giving guys a breather when needed. Injuries put him into the starting lineup unfortunately. Think there are options out there in FA that we can bring in and instantly upgrade that position to at least expected as opposed to turrible.

All reports from Stefanski yesterday said Hodge will be active this week. That will give us 4 healthy (sorta) WR's. Think there will be plenty of snaps to go around.

I'm not saying you're wrong about Hunt playing hurt, but I'm basing my claim off of more than that past few games.

Doesn't matter to me what Sendejo was or wasn't supposed to be.  He's horrible.  You and MAC can't convince me there isn't a better option out there on a practice squad or a street free agent (even besides Reid).  Bring a few guys in, we have extra practice squad spots this year.  There is no reason to settle for him just because he wasn't supposed to play.

Yes, I heard that about Hodge.  Regardless of how many healthy WRs we have, that still doesn't leave me warm and fuzzy about Higgins being on the field all game as he should be.  Once a Browns head coach proves it to me, I'll feel better.  

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Are we not going to play Joseph and Harrison together? Sendejo starting next to Joseph on week 8 unofficial depth chart. Higgins is listed as a starter!

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41 minutes ago, Bobcat10 said:

Are we not going to play Joseph and Harrison together? Sendejo starting next to Joseph on week 8 unofficial depth chart. Higgins is listed as a starter!

This strikes me as the sorta match up, especially if the weather is bad, to give it a shot. Only thing I'm worried about deep is Ruggs, but if it's sleeting will Carr even try?

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8 hours ago, beer 30 said:

You telling me Eric Reid (my pick) or Earl Thomas isn't an instant upgrade over Sendejo Clark? C'mon man

From what I have heard on both:

Eric Reid falls more under the SS/LB role and isn't supposed to be very fast. Browns already have that in Harrison and Joseph.

Earl Thomas on the other hand likes to freelance to much trying to go for the big play and not play within a structured role.

Supposedly that was part of the problem in Baltimore.

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1 hour ago, Bobcat10 said: Higgins is listed as a starter!

Good.  He should be.  
 

Mayfield and Higgins have great chemistry.  

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Beckham:  23/43

 

Higgins:  11/12

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8 hours ago, mr fancypants said:

 

Earl Thomas on the other hand likes to freelance to much trying to go for the big play and not play within a structured role.

Supposedly that was part of the problem in Baltimore.

The Ravens didn't cut Thomas because of his play (though it was a problem at times).

They cut him because he a) missed/was late to meetings, b) had a bad attitude when he did show up, and c) swung on Chuck Clark (defensive play-caller and maybe the most beloved player on the team). He got into it with another player last year and there was that weird episode with his wife last spring. According to reports, the Ravens leaders among the players all wanted him gone.

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3 hours ago, Uruk-Hai said:

The Ravens didn't cut Thomas because of his play (though it was a problem at times).

They cut him because he a) missed/was late to meetings, b) had a bad attitude when he did show up, and c) swung on Chuck Clark (defensive play-caller and maybe the most beloved player on the team). He got into it with another player last year and there was that weird episode with his wife last spring. According to reports, the Ravens leaders among the players all wanted him gone.

My comments were directed more on why Thomas style of play was not a good fit for the Browns defensive backfield rather than why he was actually cut by the Ravens. 

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8 minutes ago, mr fancypants said:

My comments were directed more on why Thomas style of play was not a good fit for the Browns defensive backfield rather than why he was actually cut by the Ravens. 

It's important though. That's really the only reason I have zero interest in him in this particular locker room. This year's about establishing the culture, so we can take the next step in 2021. Adding Earl runs counter to those goals.

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7 minutes ago, mr fancypants said:

My comments were directed more on why Thomas style of play was not a good fit for the Browns defensive backfield rather than why he was actually cut by the Ravens. 

Gotcha, but you had mentioned that his on-field play was part of the problem. If it weren't for the off-the-field stuff, he'd probably still be in Baltimore. He didn't make many big plays, but opposing offenses were staying away from him on reputation if nothing else - which definitely helped the defense. And he seemed to settle in to the Ravens' scheme as the year went on (while still not making big plays).

 

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4 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

It's important though. That's really the only reason I have zero interest in him in this particular locker room. This year's about establishing the culture, so we can take the next step in 2021. Adding Earl runs counter to those goals.

I think it's telling that no team with a strong culture has been rumored to be sniffing around Thomas since Baltimore cut him. Hell, even Dallas wouldn't sign him and they'll sign anyone.

He's still a useful & good player. The Ravens - who are thinking SB this year - chose to go with a former 6th round draft pick who'd played 40 snaps in 3 years.

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8 minutes ago, Uruk-Hai said:

Gotcha, but you had mentioned that his on-field play was part of the problem. If it weren't for the off-the-field stuff, he'd probably still be in Baltimore. He didn't make many big plays, but opposing offenses were staying away from him on reputation if nothing else - which definitely helped the defense. And he seemed to settle in to the Ravens' scheme as the year went on (while still not making big plays).

 

Really Hard to say as one can influence the other.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29723620/sources-ravens-cut-trade-earl-thomas-dispute

Thomas reached the Pro Bowl in his first and only season in Baltimore, but he struggled mightily at times. He gave up on an 88-yard touchdown run by Cleveland Browns running back Nick Chubb in Week 4 and then got stiff-armed by Tennessee Titans running back Derrick Henry in the playoffs.

The breaking point came Friday in the team's fourth training camp practice of the year. After Thomas blew a coverage, Clark angrily ripped off his helmet and threw it to the ground. Thomas then punched Clark, a source said. Both players were separated by teammates and coaches. It's unusual for two players in the same position group to fight.

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13 hours ago, mr fancypants said:

From what I have heard:

Eric Reid falls more under the SS/LB role and isn't supposed to be very fast. ...

Eric Reid = slow, has a history of concussions and said he contemplated retirement back in 2015 after suffering 3 in a short span, torn bicep in 2016 after signing a 5th year extension landed on IR for year, 2017 knee injury then moved to hybrid S/LB role injuries to others forced a move back to SS.  2018 he was out of SF and in CAR ended with another knee injury.  2019 CAR gave him a 3 year deal but was released in March.  In a league desperate for DBs no NFL has bothered to sign him.  He's not good in coverage, he's a run stopper S/LB hybrid.

He would not replace Sendejo, he plays the Carl Joseph role and Joseph was playing well till he got hurt last year.  This year he had good reviews in camp and had the biggest hits on defense before getting injured, he's due back soon.  

We're not going to sign a FA S/LB hybrid who doesn't know the system and would not replace Sendejo or upgrade the secondary.

NO ONE is going to sign a nut job like Earl Thomas.

Sendejo is slow and not athletic but is a 10 year vet who knows the system and helps out the younger guys.  Many plays where it 'appeared' he blew coverage he was actually covering for a youngster who blew coverage so he was trailing at a bad angle and he simply doesn't have the wheels or athleticism to make up ground so he looks worse due to 'others' who don't know assignments.  I've heard he is like a coach on the field so I doubt the coaching staff would release or replace him till they had someone who can QB the secondary because that is his role.

Add he played the bulk of and had the best years of his career in Minnesota when Stefanski was their so...

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1 minute ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Eric Reid = slow, has a history of concussions and said he contemplated retirement back in 2015 after suffering 3 in a short span, torn bicep in 2016 after signing a 5th year extension landed on IR for year, 2017 knee injury then moved to hybrid S/LB role injuries to others forced a move back to SS.  2018 he was out of SF and in CAR ended with another knee injury.  2019 CAR gave him a 3 year deal but was released in March.  In a league desperate for DBs no NFL has bothered to sign him.  He's not good in coverage, he's a run stopper S/LB hybrid.

He would not replace Sendejo, he plays the Carl Joseph role and Joseph was playing well till he got hurt last year.  This year he had good reviews in camp and had the biggest hits on defense before getting injured, he's due back soon.  

We're not going to sign a FA S/LB hybrid who doesn't know the system and would not replace Sendejo or upgrade the secondary.

NO ONE is going to sign a nut job like Earl Thomas.

Sendejo is slow and not athletic but is a 10 year vet who knows the system and helps out the younger guys.  Many plays where it 'appeared' he blew coverage he was actually covering for a youngster who blew coverage so he was trailing at a bad angle and he simply doesn't have the wheels or athleticism to make up ground so he looks worse due to 'others' who don't know assignments.  I've heard he is like a coach on the field so I doubt the coaching staff would release or replace him till they had someone who can QB the secondary because that is his role.

Add he played the bulk of and had the best years of his career in Minnesota when Stefanski was their so...

Joseph was active against the Bungles, just played reserve to Harrison. With his former team on tap this week I'd think he's back in the starting lineup. If this team isn't willing to play Joseph and Harrison together then I wonder if we'll rent Anthony Harris before Tuesday's trade deadline.

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20 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

Joseph was active against the Bungles, just played reserve to Harrison. With his former team on tap this week I'd think he's back in the starting lineup. If this team isn't willing to play Joseph and Harrison together then I wonder if we'll rent Anthony Harris before Tuesday's trade deadline.

He is exactly what we need and their are 'rumors' of him being traded but he's 29 and we are not acting like we are in a SB window like the Ravens who are in a 'Yankee-like' binge at the trade deadline ramping-up for a SB run and who are acting like they are clearly within a Super Bowl window.

The 'other' factor is our analytic FO and what moves make sense for them and a move for an older vet who would cost daft picks just doesn't seem like their thang.

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13 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

He is exactly what we need and their are 'rumors' of him being traded but he's 29 and we are not acting like we are in a SB window like the Ravens who are in a 'Yankee-like' binge at the trade deadline ramping-up for a SB run and who are acting like they are clearly within a Super Bowl window.

The 'other' factor is our analytic FO and what moves make sense for them and a move for an older vet who would cost daft picks just doesn't seem like their thang.

I don't think we'd offer anything meaningful, so if a contender wants him we'll be priced out. Does any contender have a need at FS though? Usually I'd think a team like Minnesota would just wait for the comp pick instead, but they've got some major cap problems next year. I think shedding half his salary to increase their carry over is their priority, so this cold be exactly the sort of discounted buy this front office values.

On that note, I've not been in alignment with seemingly anyone about this FO since it was put together. Analytics drives decision making, but this isn't anything like Sashi. It's one component; not THE component. Replacing Sendejo with Harris could positively influence the rest of that DB room - and defense as a whole. Like you correctly said upstream, Sendejo knowing the system and mentoring the young guys has value...but so would them playing along side competent FS play.

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6 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

I don't think we'd offer anything meaningful, so if a contender wants him we'll be priced out. Does any contender have a need at FS though? Usually I'd think a team like Minnesota would just wait for the comp pick instead, but they've got some major cap problems next year. I think shedding half his salary to increase their carry over is their priority, so this cold be exactly the sort of discounted buy this front office values.

On that note, I've not been in alignment with seemingly anyone about this FO since it was put together. Analytics drives decision making, but this isn't anything like Sashi. It's one component; not THE component. Replacing Sendejo with Harris could positively influence the rest of that DB room - and defense as a whole. Like you correctly said upstream, Sendejo knowing the system and mentoring the young guys has value...but so would them playing along side competent FS play.

They were turning down trade offers this summer.

Pelissero: Vikes turned down trade offers for Anthony Harris

The situation has changed but it doesn't seem like a move our FO would do, giving up 'likely' a 3rd for a FS who would need a few weeks to ramp-up to our system and I 'think' the Vikes franchised him so it would be a top-dollar signing if we wanted to extend him. 

Add we would have Delpit coming back next year and at that time he would be 30 and looking for an extension, seems like a messy situation that we would not want to dive into especially since it doesn't look like we are gearing up for a SB run this year.

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25 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

They were turning down trade offers this summer.

Pelissero: Vikes turned down trade offers for Anthony Harris

The situation has changed but it doesn't seem like a move our FO would do, giving up 'likely' a 3rd for a FS who would need a few weeks to ramp-up to our system and I 'think' the Vikes franchised him so it would be a top-dollar signing if we wanted to extend him. 

Add we would have Delpit coming back next year and at that time he would be 30 and looking for an extension, seems like a messy situation that we would not want to dive into especially since it doesn't look like we are gearing up for a SB run this year.

Oh I don't think we'd re-sign him. It'd strictly be a rental. Cause like you said, Delpit. The changing situation in Minnesota is what peaked my interest, but I'd be surprised if this team yielded either of their 3's. 4's? or a pick swap? Maybe...

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7 hours ago, MAC_32 said:

Oh I don't think we'd re-sign him. It'd strictly be a rental. Cause like you said, Delpit. The changing situation in Minnesota is what peaked my interest, but I'd be surprised if this team yielded either of their 3's. 4's? or a pick swap? Maybe...

Plus next years draft is supposedly strong in the safety position.

Edited by mr fancypants

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2 hours ago, The Man With No Name said:

Delpit will be back

Sure, but if anything this season is showing is quality depth is a good thing.

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Quote

 

According to ESPN Stats & Information, Mayfield’s numbers have actually been slightly better over the last two seasons when Beckham has been on the sidelines.

With Beckham on the field, Mayfield has completed just 59.9% of his throws and averaged just 7.2 yards per attempt. With Beckham off the field, Mayfield has connected on 70.4% of his passes and averaged 7.7 yards per throw.

Even when Beckham had been on the field, Mayfield was consistently more efficient targeting other receivers. Mayfield’s completion percentage targeting other receivers this season is 78.6%, with an off-target rate of just 10.7% and QBR of 96.2, according to ESPN Stats & Info. But targeting Beckham, Mayfield’s off-target percentage rose to 28.2% while his QBR dropped to 73.7. Mayfield’s completion rate to Beckham, meanwhile, was just 59.9%.

In fact, over the last two seasons, Mayfield and Beckham have the worst completion success rate (55.6%) of any duo in the NFL (with at least 100 attempts).

 

here's some numbers to go along with what I thought I was seeing.

I don't have an axe to grind against Odell, it could very well be Mayfield's problem.

but we really need to address the elephant in the room.

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33 minutes ago, amnesiac said:

here's some numbers to go along with what I thought I was seeing.

I don't have an axe to grind against Odell, it could very well be Mayfield's problem.

but we really need to address the elephant in the room.

Those facts are obviously not wrong, but neither are these.

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1 hour ago, MAC_32 said:

Those facts are obviously not wrong, but neither are these.

i don't believe their yards per rush are going to plummet the rest of the season.

especially starting week 10 when they should get Teller and Chubb back.

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39 minutes ago, amnesiac said:

i don't believe their yards per rush are going to plummet the rest of the season.

especially starting week 10 when they should get Teller and Chubb back.

DC's accounted for Beckham being on the field. Big plays, down field...that threat matters. What sort of effect will it have going forward? I don't know. I obviously hope it isn't a negative, but I think it'd be silly not to consider it until after it's proven to be a non-issue. 

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2 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

DC's accounted for Beckham being on the field. Big plays, down field...that threat matters. What sort of effect will it have going forward? I don't know. I obviously hope it isn't a negative, but I think it'd be silly not to consider it until after it's proven to be a non-issue. 

Thats a good point.  The counter would be what happened during the Bengals game after OBJ left the game.  There were quite a few big plays made downfield to Higgins and DPJ.  During those, there was no OBJ to act as a decoy, or demand double coverage.  Unless the defense moved to focus on Landry, at which point does it matter if OBJ is really on the field if the defense will just key in on another player? 

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3 minutes ago, Peak said:

Thats a good point.  The counter would be what happened during the Bengals game after OBJ left the game.  There were quite a few big plays made downfield to Higgins and DPJ.  During those, there was no OBJ to act as a decoy, or demand double coverage.  Unless the defense moved to focus on Landry, at which point does it matter if OBJ is really on the field if the defense will just key in on another player? 

It isn't good for conversation's sake, but this all is what I'll be watching over the next 6 weeks. The Bengals didn't apply any pressure on Baker before that one play to DPJ early in the GW drive. That's been the common theme throughout the wins this year - lack of pressure. Of which the Ravens and Steelers applied in droves leading to their blowouts. Which was more to blame for our disjointed offense? Baker vs. pressure? or Baker vs. Beckham? It's both, but which was the bigger problem? and how will his absence effect the rest of the offense when the pressure is there?

Over the next 4 games I am aware others will be watching Baker and his relationship with his targets. I'll be watching more of how Baker does when pressure is applied. I don't expect much of it this week, but for as poor as their defenses are there are some dudes in our November games that can get after him. Then we have the ultimate tests - Tennessee and Baltimore back-to-back. If we don't have our answers by Thanksgiving weekend then I think we will after those 2 games.

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25 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

It isn't good for conversation's sake, but this all is what I'll be watching over the next 6 weeks. The Bengals didn't apply any pressure on Baker before that one play to DPJ early in the GW drive. That's been the common theme throughout the wins this year - lack of pressure. Of which the Ravens and Steelers applied in droves leading to their blowouts. Which was more to blame for our disjointed offense? Baker vs. pressure? or Baker vs. Beckham? It's both, but which was the bigger problem? and how will his absence effect the rest of the offense when the pressure is there?

Over the next 4 games I am aware others will be watching Baker and his relationship with his targets. I'll be watching more of how Baker does when pressure is applied. I don't expect much of it this week, but for as poor as their defenses are there are some dudes in our November games that can get after him. Then we have the ultimate tests - Tennessee and Baltimore back-to-back. If we don't have our answers by Thanksgiving weekend then I think we will after those 2 games.

i get what you're saying.  they are separate issues, but they may be intertwined.

it is possible that Mayfield may be able to counteract the rush if he's getting the ball out quicker, taking what is available, instead of trying to get it to Beckham, who was often double teamed.

(presupposing the theory that he was locking in on Beckham.)

i think they keep stats on how long QBs hold onto the ball, but i wouldn't know how to dig into that.  if i see an article at some point i will post it.

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btw, actually having a discussion about the team/QB is fun.

most years we all agree that it's total garbage.

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So who's is the main beneficiary of OBJ's indefinite absence? Who's gonna be the main guy who steps up?

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50 minutes ago, ATB said:

So who's is the main beneficiary of OBJ's indefinite absence? Who's gonna be the main guy who steps up?

for fantasy?

Landry might tick up a bit.

but my guess is that they'll try to remain run heavy and the passing attack will be spread across the board.

imo, there's no "hot pickup" that's going to go on a tear scoring fantasy points.

it's possible Higgins may be useful as a spot starter, i picked him up in one league.

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24 minutes ago, amnesiac said:

for fantasy?

Landry might tick up a bit.

but my guess is that they'll try to remain run heavy and the passing attack will be spread across the board.

imo, there's no "hot pickup" that's going to go on a tear scoring fantasy points.

it's possible Higgins may be useful as a spot starter, i picked him up in one league.

Agreed.  I think it'll be run heavy first and then Baker spreading the ball around to multiple receivers.  Harrison Bryant really seems to have Baker's trust, especially in the red-zone.  He might be a good pickup if you need a TE.

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