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wadegarrett

**** CLEVELAND BROWNS THREAD ****

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So the front office knew "early-on". Trent Richardson deal? People want to defend that deal and I guess it looks ok because of the way TRich played but at the time a handful of GMs said they would have given more. You don't just sell your one of a kind, name your offer piece without seeing what the market actually is for him.

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So the front office knew "early-on". Trent Richardson deal? People want to defend that deal and I guess it looks ok because of the way TRich played but at the time a handful of GMs said they would have given more. You don't just sell your one of a kind, name your offer piece without seeing what the market actually is for him.

Huh? Now we're saying that Indy underpaid for Richardson?

That's a new narrative.

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BTW in all likelihood Chud will come out of this smelling like roses with a ton of money still making its way to his bank account.

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Well that escalated quickly, wtf?

Haven't posted in here much this season because frankly the Browns don't deserve that much of my time but this is kinda odd. Whatever I guess, can't even roll out the "wait till next year" battle cry anymore.

Just join Panthers nation and be done with it. At least we go to the playoffs once a decade.

They haven't made it hard to ignore the Browns but I don't think I could totally jump ship. Went to a few games this year and all I kept thinking was how sweet this would be if CLE could recapture this winning spirit.

He's a local kid who has NFL head coaching experience and from reports, Haslam wants someone with head coaching experience but they would HAVE to keep him boxed out of making top personnel moves since his history is spotty at-best.

With Banner & Lombardi in the front office I don't think that will be a problem at all, Hitler & his Mini-Me won't be letting go of the reins anytime soon.

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So how many years was Chud under contract for?

Just saw from Mortensen on Twitter that they owe him $10.5MM...3 years left on his deal.

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BTW in all likelihood Chud will come out of this smelling like roses with a ton of money still making its way to his bank account.

He gets a cool $9 million to stay home and water the flowers.

Sign me up as Browns HC; I'd like a piece of that action.

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After 30yrs as a Browns fan, Ill tell you this ONE thing:

I will completely stop supporting this organization, and go "teamless" if we were to sign Shanahan.

on my mother's grave

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watching the press confrence.

gotta give these guys credit, they've got stones.

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watching the press confrence.

gotta give these guys credit, they've got stones.

I listened to it and the only thing I took away from it was "#### you Mr. Fan, we are accountable to no one". When Banner said he "disagreed with the premise" that Cleveland wasn't very active in the FA market and then went on to say the great success's they brought in or comparing other teams that had similar QB issues throughout the league. Really Joe? #### you you smug #######.

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well, what i heard was, hey, we suck. we know we suck. we're committed to getting better.

they could've easily kept Chud another year, then fired him, giving themselves an extra year of excuses.

imo, they really laid it on the line today.

wtf are they going to say if they only win 4 games next year?

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well, what i heard was, hey, we suck. we know we suck. we're committed to getting better.

they could've easily kept Chud another year, then fired him, giving themselves an extra year of excuses.

imo, they really laid it on the line today.

wtf are they going to say if they only win 4 games next year?

Fire the new head coach probably.

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So how many years was Chud under contract for?

Just saw from Mortensen on Twitter that they owe him $10.5MM...3 years left on his deal.

wow . . . eating money after the coach is gone . . . not good . . . especially if it happens over and over.

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I actually know someone who is associated with Haslam and from what I'm hearing this is coming straight from him. He was PISSED about this year. Apparently he's going to be very hands on this year. I don't know what exactly to make of that.

This team is a mess right now. Banner and Lombardi, I don't know about those two. If they bring in McDaniels they better be on the same page. If they can't be on the same page with him (given his history with Lombardi), then I don't know if it will be possible to bring in someone that doesn't have big problems with Lombardi's personnel decisions.

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So the front office knew "early-on". Trent Richardson deal? People want to defend that deal and I guess it looks ok because of the way TRich played but at the time a handful of GMs said they would have given more. You don't just sell your one of a kind, name your offer piece without seeing what the market actually is for him.

Is this real life? Wrong forum bro, the Fishing Pool is somewhere else.

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the more i think about it, why is there so much outrage for a 4-12 coach getting fired?

don't most of us believe this team under-achieved this year?

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Fire a guy after one year, and then want to hire a guy who failed miserably?

Sounds about right for the 2nd worst franchise in sports history.

7 coaches since 1999 and some wonder why this franchise is horrible, not the coaches, most clearly the front office is inept at finding talent and running an organization. Wasn't their first draft pick Couch for crying out loud?

Which front office? We have had several major overhauls here.

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the more i think about it, why is there so much outrage for a 4-12 coach getting fired?

don't most of us believe this team under-achieved this year?

Weeden

Campbell

Wittaker

Baker

Mcgahee

Ogbanaya

Rainey

There are the players that had the ball in their hands every play. Worst QB situation in the NFL. Worst RB situation in the NFL. Underachieved??

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And as for Richardson...........MAYBE, and I mean MAYBE they could have gotten more in a deal. But I also think it would have been stupid to risk throwing Richardson out there for one more week while trying to haggle for just a tiny bit more from some other team. He could have either gotten injured, or simply continued to do what he was doing, which was quickly driving his own value down with each 2 yard carry.

Great trade at the time, and ridiculously good now.

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the more i think about it, why is there so much outrage for a 4-12 coach getting fired?

don't most of us believe this team under-achieved this year?

The front office gave him nothing to work with. He had Hoyer but he got knocked out early. The rest of the personnel on offense minus Gordon/Cameron is a joke.

The assumption was that this year was a mulligan considering the players Chud got. Sure, he lost 12 games, but I can't say I didn't expect much better than that given the players we have on the team.

It's not an outrageous fire, but it is surprising. It's indicative of a breakdown in communication between the front office and coach. And if that bad of a breakdown happens in one year with their handpicked hire, what confidence do we have that they can bring someone in this year who will be on the same page? I think the outrage should be more along of lines of, if this guy is so bad why the hell did they hire him? It's not like some ####### came in and took a dump on the Browns. They were the ones that picked this guy.

Edited by nxmehta

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the more i think about it, why is there so much outrage for a 4-12 coach getting fired?

don't most of us believe this team under-achieved this year?

The front office gave him nothing to work with. He had Hoyer but he got knocked out early. The rest of the personnel on offense minus Gordon/Cameron is a joke.

The assumption was that this year was a mulligan considering the players Chud got. Sure, he lost 12 games, but I can't say I didn't expect much better than that given the players we have on the team.

It's not an outrageous fire, but it is surprising. It's indicative of a breakdown in communication between the front office and coach. And if that bad of a breakdown happens in one year with their handpicked hire, what confidence do we have that they can bring someone in this year who will be on the same page? I think the outrage should be more along of lines of, if this guy is so bad why the hell did they hire him? It's not like some ####### came in and took a dump on the Browns. They were the ones that picked this guy.

oh, i was surprised as anyone.

but let's everyone stop with "the cupboard was bare" routine.

the Browns have FIVE Pro-Bowlers. they are not the Jaguars.

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the more i think about it, why is there so much outrage for a 4-12 coach getting fired?

don't most of us believe this team under-achieved this year?

The front office gave him nothing to work with. He had Hoyer but he got knocked out early. The rest of the personnel on offense minus Gordon/Cameron is a joke.

The assumption was that this year was a mulligan considering the players Chud got. Sure, he lost 12 games, but I can't say I didn't expect much better than that given the players we have on the team.

It's not an outrageous fire, but it is surprising. It's indicative of a breakdown in communication between the front office and coach. And if that bad of a breakdown happens in one year with their handpicked hire, what confidence do we have that they can bring someone in this year who will be on the same page? I think the outrage should be more along of lines of, if this guy is so bad why the hell did they hire him? It's not like some ####### came in and took a dump on the Browns. They were the ones that picked this guy.

oh, i was surprised as anyone.

but let's everyone stop with "the cupboard was bare" routine.

the Browns have FIVE Pro-Bowlers. they are not the Jaguars.

I don't know, at QB and RB we're talking about:

Brandon Weeden

Jason Campbell

Alex Tanney

Willis McGahee

Fozzy Whittaker

Edwin Baker

Chris Ogbannaya

Plus according to reports the FO refused to give Chud a fullback. Doesn't seem like a lot of teamwork going on there to me.

Also, is the fact that we have 5 pro bowlers because of, or in spite of, Chud? Chud turned Braylon Edwards into a pro bowler and that guy was a born loser. Shouldn't we be absolutely amazed that Jordan Cameron is a pro bowler with Jason Campbell throwing the ball to him? Where was Cameron last year? Or Gordon for that matter? I think most of that credit goes to Norv and Chud. If neither of them make the pro bowl next year, is that because they players are bad, or the next coach is bad?

But all of that is besides the point. The outrage is not at firing Chud. I think it's at being stupid enough to hire him and fire him immediately. Again, I'll go back to this point- they hired Chud. It's not like he fell from the sky.

To quote one of the remarks from an unidentified Browns player:

"We are so dysfunctional. These billionaires need to pick somebody and stay with them. These aren't girlfriends..."
Edited by nxmehta

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For me, the only way that this makes sense is if they already know who they want the new coach to be & they go after him hard to make sure they get their guy rather than settling like they did for Chud

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the more i think about it, why is there so much outrage for a 4-12 coach getting fired?

don't most of us believe this team under-achieved this year?

The front office gave him nothing to work with. He had Hoyer but he got knocked out early. The rest of the personnel on offense minus Gordon/Cameron is a joke.

The assumption was that this year was a mulligan considering the players Chud got. Sure, he lost 12 games, but I can't say I didn't expect much better than that given the players we have on the team.

It's not an outrageous fire, but it is surprising. It's indicative of a breakdown in communication between the front office and coach. And if that bad of a breakdown happens in one year with their handpicked hire, what confidence do we have that they can bring someone in this year who will be on the same page? I think the outrage should be more along of lines of, if this guy is so bad why the hell did they hire him? It's not like some ####### came in and took a dump on the Browns. They were the ones that picked this guy.

oh, i was surprised as anyone.

but let's everyone stop with "the cupboard was bare" routine.

the Browns have FIVE Pro-Bowlers. they are not the Jaguars.

I don't know, at QB and RB we're talking about:

Brandon Weeden

Jason Campbell

Alex Tanney

Willis McGahee

Fozzy Whittaker

Edwin Baker

Chris Ogbannaya

Plus according to reports the FO refused to give Chud a fullback. Doesn't seem like a lot of teamwork going on there to me.

Also, is the fact that we have 5 pro bowlers because of, or in spite of, Chud? Chud turned Braylon Edwards into a pro bowler and that guy was a born loser. Shouldn't we be absolutely amazed that Jordan Cameron is a pro bowler with Jason Campbell throwing the ball to him? Where was Cameron last year? Or Gordon for that matter? I think most of that credit goes to Norv and Chud. If neither of them make the pro bowl next year, is that because they players are bad, or the next coach is bad?

But all of that is besides the point. The outrage is not at firing Chud. I think it's at being stupid enough to hire him and fire him immediately. Again, I'll go back to this point- they hired Chud. It's not like he fell from the sky.

To quote one of the remarks from an unidentified Browns player:

"We are so dysfunctional. These billionaires need to pick somebody and stay with them. These aren't girlfriends..."

good points.

i fully agree this team needs a stable QB.

we can agree there is some talent outside of that position. and imo the RB position has been extremely devalued in the last few years.

i get that they hired him. and that maybe it was a mistake.

but ask yourself this: would rather have had Holmgren fire Shurmur after a year and admit he made a mistake?

right now, i'm giving them credit for moving on instead of continuing with what they admit to being a mistake.

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good points.

i fully agree this team needs a stable QB.

we can agree there is some talent outside of that position. and imo the RB position has been extremely devalued in the last few years.

i get that they hired him. and that maybe it was a mistake.

but ask yourself this: would rather have had Holmgren fire Shurmur after a year and admit he made a mistake?

right now, i'm giving them credit for moving on instead of continuing with what they admit to being a mistake.

Ha, I'd rather have Holmgren (in order of preference)

1. Jump off the 480 Bridge

2. Fire himself

3. Hire the right coach to start with

4. Hire Shurmur and then fire him after 1 year

I do however give the front office credit for admitting a mistake and moving on quickly.

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to be honest if you guys get Josh McDaniels (as ####ty as this move is), it will probably be worth it.

Josh looked in-over-his-head with Denver.

- traded away QB Jay Cutler

- traded away WR Brandon Marshall

- traded away one of the first round picks he acquired in the deal for a DB in the 2nd round who fizzled

- he did draft WR Demaryius Thomas but Thomas got injured so McDaniels never saw the fruit of that deal

- drafted QB Tim Tebow in the first round

- drafted RB Knowshon Moreno with the 12th pick in the first round

He started out winning his first six games and was the media darling till the wheels fell off.

He's a local kid who has NFL head coaching experience and from reports, Haslam wants someone with head coaching experience but they would HAVE to keep him boxed out of making top personnel moves since his history is spotty at-best.

I'm not hoping for McDaniels, but I won't be upset if it is him. He was given too much control for a young first-time coach in Denver. That certainly won't happen in Cleveland.

Obviously we can all name some coaches that were a lot better at their 2nd or 3rd NFL stop.

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I actually know someone who is associated with Haslam and from what I'm hearing this is coming straight from him. He was PISSED about this year. Apparently he's going to be very hands on this year. I don't know what exactly to make of that.

Oh man. Our own Jerrah?

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I actually know someone who is associated with Haslam and from what I'm hearing this is coming straight from him. He was PISSED about this year. Apparently he's going to be very hands on this year. I don't know what exactly to make of that.

Oh man. Our own Jerrah?

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm hoping it WONT be like.

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to be honest if you guys get Josh McDaniels (as ####ty as this move is), it will probably be worth it.

Josh looked in-over-his-head with Denver.

- traded away QB Jay Cutler

- traded away WR Brandon Marshall

- traded away one of the first round picks he acquired in the deal for a DB in the 2nd round who fizzled

- he did draft WR Demaryius Thomas but Thomas got injured so McDaniels never saw the fruit of that deal

- drafted QB Tim Tebow in the first round

- drafted RB Knowshon Moreno with the 12th pick in the first round

He started out winning his first six games and was the media darling till the wheels fell off.

He's a local kid who has NFL head coaching experience and from reports, Haslam wants someone with head coaching experience but they would HAVE to keep him boxed out of making top personnel moves since his history is spotty at-best.

I'm not hoping for McDaniels, but I won't be upset if it is him. He was given too much control for a young first-time coach in Denver. That certainly won't happen in Cleveland.

Obviously we can all name some coaches that were a lot better at their 2nd or 3rd NFL stop.

This is exactly how I feel.

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the more i think about it, why is there so much outrage for a 4-12 coach getting fired?

don't most of us believe this team under-achieved this year?

The front office gave him nothing to work with. He had Hoyer but he got knocked out early. The rest of the personnel on offense minus Gordon/Cameron is a joke.

The assumption was that this year was a mulligan considering the players Chud got. Sure, he lost 12 games, but I can't say I didn't expect much better than that given the players we have on the team.

It's not an outrageous fire, but it is surprising. It's indicative of a breakdown in communication between the front office and coach. And if that bad of a breakdown happens in one year with their handpicked hire, what confidence do we have that they can bring someone in this year who will be on the same page? I think the outrage should be more along of lines of, if this guy is so bad why the hell did they hire him? It's not like some ####### came in and took a dump on the Browns. They were the ones that picked this guy.

oh, i was surprised as anyone.

but let's everyone stop with "the cupboard was bare" routine.

the Browns have FIVE Pro-Bowlers. they are not the Jaguars.

QB driven league. Look no further than KC to see how important a QB is. They had a ton of Pro Bowlers, but no QB and won 2 games. Bring in just an adequate QB in Alex Smith and they win 11 games. If CLE simply added a competent QB they'd win 8 games without doing much more.

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the more i think about it, why is there so much outrage for a 4-12 coach getting fired?

don't most of us believe this team under-achieved this year?

The front office gave him nothing to work with. He had Hoyer but he got knocked out early. The rest of the personnel on offense minus Gordon/Cameron is a joke.

The assumption was that this year was a mulligan considering the players Chud got. Sure, he lost 12 games, but I can't say I didn't expect much better than that given the players we have on the team.

It's not an outrageous fire, but it is surprising. It's indicative of a breakdown in communication between the front office and coach. And if that bad of a breakdown happens in one year with their handpicked hire, what confidence do we have that they can bring someone in this year who will be on the same page? I think the outrage should be more along of lines of, if this guy is so bad why the hell did they hire him? It's not like some ####### came in and took a dump on the Browns. They were the ones that picked this guy.

oh, i was surprised as anyone.

but let's everyone stop with "the cupboard was bare" routine.

the Browns have FIVE Pro-Bowlers. they are not the Jaguars.

QB driven league. Look no further than KC to see how important a QB is. They had a ton of Pro Bowlers, but no QB and won 2 games. Bring in just an adequate QB in Alex Smith and they win 11 games. If CLE simply added a competent QB they'd win 8 games without doing much more.

i agree.

they got competent play from Hoyer for two games. so this team was spotted two wins and could only manage two more wins on the rest of the season.

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oh, and Kansas City also got a new coach.

worth mentioning that as well.

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Any talk in Cleveland of sticking with Hoyer?

no, it's all about how our franchise is a joke.

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Any talk in Cleveland of sticking with Hoyer?

i think he'll be back, and likely compete for the starting job with a rookie or a backup they trade for.

unless they sign someone like Cutler to come in and start. not sure who else is available in FA.

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Any talk in Cleveland of sticking with Hoyer?

i think he'll be back, and likely compete for the starting job with a rookie or a backup they trade for.

unless they sign someone like Cutler to come in and start. not sure who else is available in FA.

The more you think about it, the more you realize that Chicago is going to re-sign Cutler. They can't go forward with 34 year old Josh McCowan and let 30 year old Jay Cutler walk.

Its a big payday but the risk of going without a net, only having McCowan going forward, doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

===========

The Browns will draft a rookie QB but Hoyer will start, at least at the begining of next year.

By replacing Chud the front office takes some heat off of them to win instantly but if they also take a young QB they can ease him in when he's ready by starting Hoyer.

I would imagine the first three picks will be:

- 1st round pick quarterback

- 1st round pick either CB or WR

- 2nd round pick either WR or CB

That way we get the quarterback and we fix the biggest hole on defense and are able to get rid of Little and Davone Bess and replace them with a weapon to attack the field opposite Gordon and Cameron.

We 'could' turn things around quickly if we can keep the core of the team intact this offseason.

We've alreay lost coaching continuity but if we get the QB and fill the gaping hole at corner opposite Joe Haden AND add a legit weapon opposite Gordon and Cameron then we completely forget this point in time that means nothing if things turn around and if you look at the team objectively we are closer than people realize.

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I thought we would go CB in free agency, hoped we would re sign Ward and Mack, then go offense offense and more offense in the draft but no free agent will want to come here anymore. Can't blame them.

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I thought we would go CB in free agency, hoped we would re sign Ward and Mack, then go offense offense and more offense in the draft but no free agent will want to come here anymore. Can't blame them.

We did go CB in last year's free agency but took Chris Owens over Grimes who went to the Pro Bowl however Grimes is 30 and the front office only signed one player over the age of 30 last year, QB Jason Cambel, but he was slotted as a veteran back-up.

Older free agents did not fit into the front office plans because they knew it would take time before we were competative and in two to three years any free agent over the age of 30 would be past their prime and over-priced so as bad as the Chris Owens singing was, I agreed with the philosophy behind it even though I wanted Grimes.

======

ANY NFL player contemplatng free agency is about one f'ng thing, MONEY :moneybag:

Don't kid yourself about people turning their nose at taking Cleveland money.

We will be VERY AGGRESSIVE in free agency this offseason.

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other than QB and an upgrade at the #2 WR slot, I'd rather see them spend the picks on defense.

actually, I'd rather see them go BPA every pick, because i think that's the best strategy to building a talented roster long term. but i realize no NFL teams are ever that patient.

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other than QB and an upgrade at the #2 WR slot, I'd rather see them spend the picks on defense.

actually, I'd rather see them go BPA every pick, because i think that's the best strategy to building a talented roster long term. but i realize no NFL teams are ever that patient.

The O line needs an upgrade desperately.

Schwartz is not it as the RT.

I'd love to see RT addressed and Schwartz moved in to Guard.

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other than QB and an upgrade at the #2 WR slot, I'd rather see them spend the picks on defense.

actually, I'd rather see them go BPA every pick, because i think that's the best strategy to building a talented roster long term. but i realize no NFL teams are ever that patient.

The O line needs an upgrade desperately.

Schwartz is not it as the RT.

I'd love to see RT addressed and Schwartz moved in to Guard.

i could see that.

though he looked better when he wasn't trying to block two guys at the same time because the right guard was so terrible. Greco?

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other than QB and an upgrade at the #2 WR slot, I'd rather see them spend the picks on defense.

actually, I'd rather see them go BPA every pick, because i think that's the best strategy to building a talented roster long term. but i realize no NFL teams are ever that patient.

The O line needs an upgrade desperately.

Schwartz is not it as the RT.

I'd love to see RT addressed and Schwartz moved in to Guard.

are you thinking Jake Matthews at RT, then switch him over to LT in a few years?

linemen always seem like a safe pick to me at the top of the draft. even if they're not great they are usually at least stable starters.

Edited by amnesiac

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is this coming from Mack, or does the team just not value him?

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is this coming from Mack, or does the team just not value him?

What are you referring to?

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Mack is going to want a huge contract.

Somewhere I remember reading or hearing Banner saying/implying Centers are easy to replace.

Dear Jimmy since I know you love hearing this phrase here it is again.

Same old Browns.

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We will have to overpay for free agents to come here. Our CEO won't over pay free agents. He also won't overpay to keep our own.

We have holes that could be filled in March, but they won't. We'll get guys like Chris Owens and Gary Barnridge. The player's number one priority is money, but why would they take 2% more to come to this cesspool? Assuming we even offer more. We probably won't.

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It's a pipedream to think we will be or even try to be major players in FA.

We should resign our own guys, especially the Pro Bowl players, but I doubt that happens also.

I'm rather indifferent on the coaching decision. I wanted Shurmur gone after one season, so it's tough for me to justify Chud getting more time when I'm pretty disappointed on the outcome of the season. Chud, though, is >>>>> than Shurmur. Fact is, the team regressed when they were in position to make a push for the postseason and had a big game coming out of the bye week that they floundered. I've seen defenses carry teams to better records than 1-10 to finish the year. If our defense was as good as many believe, they should have played like it versus ####ty teams and not fell apart in as many 4th quarters as they did. Screw all the talk about what QBs and RBs Chud had to work with. There was no reason to be 4-12 this year. If the FO didn't see the progress they wanted to see, fine move on and get it right this time. We all know Chud was not at the top of their list last year...probably not top 5. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like there are any hot head coach prospects out there right now besides O'Brien and we're not going to go after him.

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