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***Official Jays Thread*** Lots of optimism, again. (1 Viewer)

Northern Voice said:
Biggio hits for the cycle, with two stolen bases. His batting average is ugly but in a little over half a season, he has a .361 OBP 14 HR, 13 SB and close to 2 WAR - he's been a solid player in real and fantasy baseball.
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Please tell him one more before the end of the season. Dont need the stolen bases though. That'd just be greedy. 

 
I hope this management group is willing to admit mistakes, because Brandon Drury, Billy McKinney (both from last year's Happ trade) and Derek Fisher (this year's Sanchez/Biagini trade) are just terrible baseball players. 

None look remotely like every day MLB outfielders. Which is fine. Randall Grichuk is a league average player signed long term, Lourdes Gurriel Jr. is maybe more than that (signed long term) and Teoscar Hernandez is a capable stopgap with some upside and isn't useless like the guys above. This team needs to get closer to being good and just move on from the Drury'd and Fisher's of the world, it's not going to happen. Let Anthony Alford or someone get a chance.

 
Northern Voice said:
Vlad had insanely high expectations coming into this year and... Bo Bichette is easily exceeding those expectations so far. 
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Vlad was taken way too high in many drafts so his season has been disappointing given the high HR-RBI totals of so many players this season.  Was listening to MLB and some think Gurriel is the Blue Jay player to watch over Vlad.

 
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Northern Voice said:
I hope this management group is willing to admit mistakes, because Brandon Drury, Billy McKinney (both from last year's Happ trade) and Derek Fisher (this year's Sanchez/Biagini trade) are just terrible baseball players. 

None look remotely like every day MLB outfielders. Which is fine. Randall Grichuk is a league average player signed long term, Lourdes Gurriel Jr. is maybe more than that (signed long term) and Teoscar Hernandez is a capable stopgap with some upside and isn't useless like the guys above. This team needs to get closer to being good and just move on from the Drury'd and Fisher's of the world, it's not going to happen. Let Anthony Alford or someone get a chance.
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I count 7 Blue Jays hitters in the post above. And 0 pitchers.  If this team is to get closer to being good then that needs 100% of this management's attention. Not duds like Drury, McKinney, and Fisher. Given the current depth chart that'll sort itself out.

 
MAC_32 said:
I count 7 Blue Jays hitters in the post above. And 0 pitchers.  If this team is to get closer to being good then that needs 100% of this management's attention. Not duds like Drury, McKinney, and Fisher. Given the current depth chart that'll sort itself out.
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Most trades this year were for pitchers, there's tons of quantity in prospects, I'm skeptical of the quality beyond Nate Pearson. 

 
Da Guru said:
Vlad was taken way too high in many drafts so his season has been disappointing given the high HR-RBI totals of so many players this season.  Was listening to MLB and some think Gurriel is the Blue Jay player to watch over Vlad.
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Vlad will pan out over the long term.  I offered Yordan Alvarez straight up for Vlad in a dynasty earlier this year and was turned down, I don't think I'd make the offer again, even as a Jays homer. 

I really like Gurriel, he'd be part of the core with Bo, Vlad and Biggio for me for sure.

Reese McGuire showing well too, Danny Jansen's job may not be as secure going forward as expected. Either way, should be fine there. 

 
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Northern Voice said:
Most trades this year were for pitchers, there's tons of quantity in prospects, I'm skeptical of the quality beyond Nate Pearson. 
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I'm aware. I'm just saying the bats aren't the go-forward issue. It's the arms. The bats will sort themselves out. Drury being on the team again in 2020 isn't a problem. If he's there it's to just backup everyone. If he's not then congrats - you found a better backup. McKinney and Fisher will also be somewhere in the system, but if either break camp on the big league club then it's for a similar purpose as Drury. If they don't then congrats - you found a better backup. None of them are worth being concerned about what management thinks about them though.

Trades happen, but as is if the mound gets fixed then the relatively few holes in the lineup can be filled. If the mound doesn't get fixed then the lineup doesn't matter. You're still losing 90+ games.

 
Jays trade for Chase Anderson. They say he'll be a back end guy but right now he's the #1 in a rotation with Trent Thornton, Ryan Borucki and... that's it (though they're expected to bring Matt Shoemaker back as well). 

 
Roark is more valuable in real life than in fantasy.  A reliable guy who can eat league average innings is better than a streaming option.

2/$24M seems a little high to me because he's very unlikely to significantly overperform his contract.  But he's also someone they can flip for a prospect in July 2021.

 
Eephus said:
2/$24M seems a little high to me because he's very unlikely to significantly overperform his contract.  But he's also someone they can flip for a prospect in July 2021.
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No one's coming to Toronto unless they overpay. Still a year plus from contending, border crossings, insane division. 

They did sign Shun Yamaguchi out of the NPB and said he could be out of the bullpen or in the rotation, so now we have:

  • Tanner Roark
  • Chase Anderson
  • Trent Thornton
  • Matt Shoemaker
  • Ryan Borucki
  • Shun Yamaguchi
  • Jacob Waguespack
If it was those seven guys to fill out the 4/5 spots in the rotation it would be fine, unfortunately they have to fill out 1/2/3/4/5. 

 
falguy said:
1a and 1b I guess :)

I've seen articles where Haap, EE, have been mentioned as possible targets. Might as well go get Pillar and Jose too. Get the gang back together.
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David Price too. Trade for him, sign Ryu and that's a solid 84 win team that still finishes in 4th place, ten wins out of a wild card spot. 

 
Northern Voice said:
  • Tanner Roark
  • Chase Anderson
  • Trent Thornton
  • Matt Shoemaker
  • Ryan Borucki
  • Shun Yamaguchi
  • Jacob Waguespack
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None of these guys will be drafted in a 12 team mixed league so I guess they're better in real life than fantasy.

ETA:  OK maybe Roark

 
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We didn't talk about the Travis Shaw signing in here. I still don't really care too. For the same money, I would have rather they brought Smoak back, but :shrug:

 
I dont see the "yet out" thread so will just post this here. 

RIP to one of the slickest shortstops to ever play. It was a pleasure watching you tony Fernandez.  :(

 
Austin Martin seems like a steal at pick #5 if Keith Law/The Athletic is to be believed. Had him as #1 overall prospect. "Most athletic prospect since George Springer in 2012".

Drafted as a SS but may end up at 3rd with Bichette at SS, Biggio 2B, Vlad 1B.

 
Walker, Ray, Stripling, Villar and Vogelbach at presumably very low prospect cost is a nice way to fill out the roster and take advantage of their current position/expanded playoffs. 

 
10 run 6th against the Yankees that included a Vladdy SB and a Danny Jansen grand slam (not sure which is more unlikely to be honest). And 6 runs off Ottavino who didn't record an out. 

In a game where Ryu was not sharp for the first time in a while. Also where a win puts them two games clear of the Yankees for 2nd in the division. And the first of ten games this month against them. 

All without Teoscar and Bichette as well.

This team is so much fun. 

 
This year, not sure if because of pandemic or if it's a permanent move home, we've had Dan Shulman on the TV calls for every single game and he is so extremely good at it. 

 
The most fun permutation of the Jays roster is 

  • C Kirk
  • 1B Tellez
  • 2B Semien
  • 3B Guerrero Jr
  • SS Bichette
  • LF Gurriel Jr
  • CF Springer
  • RF Teoscar
  • DH/UT Biggio
  • Bench OF Grichuk
  • Bench C Jansen
  • Bench UT Espinal
-------

Also, the 1 year deal for Semien makes sense with Groshans, Martin, Martinez all on the way.

The Jays will have $43 million coming off next year's payroll in Semien, Roark, Yates and Robbie Ray. So they should be able to add Groshans and/or Martin to the 2022 major league roster and have lots of cash again NEXT offseason. They still need some pitching obviously, and may trade an OF from above to get some, but both the short and long term lineups are in incredible shape.

 
Fun weekend. Fun team. They need to find a way to keep Ray and Semien but for now just going to enjoy fairly meaningful September baseball.

 
Northern Voice said:
Fun weekend. Fun team. They need to find a way to keep Ray and Semien but for now just going to enjoy fairly meaningful September baseball.
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Speaking of fun weekend, fun team...  

Friday - Robbie Ray drama

Saturday, gm1 - Ryu sucks, jays down big, come back late to win 

Saturday, gm 2 - Jays no hit thru 6, proceed to score 11 in the 7th

Sunday, pick up where they left off scoring at will and outscoring about 15 football teams on the day including 3 that won.

Are you not entertained?!?

3 big games with Tampa upcoming. 

 
2022 Season

In: Gausman, Chapman, Kikuchi

Out: Ray, Semien, Matz

Grabbing Chapman without losing any of Moreno, Martinez, Pearson or Groshans was nice. Prospect pool still pretty strong. 

Starting Rotation depth of Berrios, Manoah, Gausman, Ryu, Kikuchi, Stripling, Pearson is stronger than recent years. 

Lineup of Springer, Vlad, Teoscar, Bichette, Chapman, Gurriel, DH (Kirk/Grichuk), Biggio, Jansen should hit. 

McGuire/Kirk/Moreno give great catching depth behind Jansen, who probably keeps starting most games because defense. Espinal is a nice utility infielder. Grichuk is a great, if overpaid, 4th outfielder. 

Bullpen seems good (Romano, Merryweather, Cimber, Garcia, Mayza, Richards, Stripling, Biagini, Borucki, Pearson? Thornton? Hatch? etc..)

Big need remaining is a big left handed or switch hitting bat on the bench or ideally to bump someone out of the starting lineup. Biggio is the only one on the roster right now, with Greg Bird and Mallex Smith as the main spring training invites.

 
Jays traded Randall Grichuk for Raimel Tapia and prospect Adrian Pinto. 

----

Interesting trade because I think Grichuk is objectively better than Tapia but Tapia is probably a better fit for the Jays. With an outfield of Springer/Gurriel/Teoscar, all right handed power guys, the left handed speed/contact guy makes sense as a bench guy. 

They save money, which shouldn't matter to this ownership and they've spent money recently - it may be spent elsewhere or go to extensions etc...

The big upside to me is it sets the outfield and ends the nonsensical Lourdes Gurriel Jr. trade rumours that have persisted for a while. I love Gurriel, he may be my favourite player on this team, which I know is ridiculous given Vlad/Bo/Teo/Springer but he feels like the heart of the team and hopefully this means he's here to stay/maybe gets extended. 

 
Waited just a bit too long on home opener tickets and had to go the StubHub route. Paid a bit more but happy to be going and glad to see the excitement with it being sold out. 

 
Manoah has gone from ace to complete garbage in one year. Assuming it's something mental/mechanical (maybe due to the pitch clock)?
 
The Jays signed Jose Bautista to a 1-day contract today so he can retire as a Jay. :heart: Tomorrow he gets added to the Level of Excellence where he belongs. I'll be at the game tomorrow and still get chills watching the infamous 7th inning against the Rangers. Easily top 3 moment in Jays history for me. I don't usually enjoy going to Toronto but wasn't going to let me disdain of the traffic situation keep me away from this. It'll be electric!

Then the Jays will lose 2-1 and leave 14 men on base.

it's too bad they don't let him DH!
 
I was at Sunday's game. It was good.

This team is weird. They're among the best in the league in run prevention but the bats run so hot and cold. In theory, the pitching and defense could come through in the playoffs but it feels like such a frustrating year because of the offense.

Then you look up and realize they're 12 games above .500 with Bo coming back soon.
 
I've watched this team for 35 years and honestly

Gausman
Bassitt
Berrios
Kikuchi

Romano
Hicks
Swanson
Cabrera
Garcia
Green
Mayza
Cimber

Might be the best pitching staff they have ever had (and this is with 2022 Cy Young runner up Alek Manoah completely losing it).

But they can not hit.

Defense is rock solid with Kiermaier and Varsho in the outfield and Chapman, Bichette etc... infield.

If pitching and defense win championships... I can easily see this team missing the playoffs or winning the world series.

It's so so frustrating.
 
Northern Voice said:
I've watched this team for 35 years and honestly

Gausman
Bassitt
Berrios
Kikuchi

Romano
Hicks
Swanson
Cabrera
Garcia
Green
Mayza
Cimber

Might be the best pitching staff they have ever had (and this is with 2022 Cy Young runner up Alek Manoah completely losing it).

But they can not hit.

Defense is rock solid with Kiermaier and Varsho in the outfield and Chapman, Bichette etc... infield.

If pitching and defense win championships... I can easily see this team missing the playoffs or winning the world series.

It's so so frustrating.
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Also, up until his injury Richards was phenomenal. He's struggled mightily since his return, however.

They are not a fun team to watch. They are also quite bad on the bases which adds to the frustration. But their pitching has kept them alive, just need the bats to wake up a little, but I don't expect that will happen.
 
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