shnikies
Footballguy
I was looking for his compiled rushing and passing stats from shotgun and under center. I'm too lazy to add up all of the plays.
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Tim Tebow - 8.17.21 Waived By Jacksonville (1 Viewer)
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FavreCo
Footballguy
Excellent point but I'll give fatass a solid 2nd place. He just could never keep it going for 4 quarters like tebow did Sunday. I think it has to do with the spin and turn your back on the D move he is patenting. j-fat couldn't move.Really?You already forgot about JaWalrus?
shnikies
Footballguy
Not to be "that guy" but do you have a link? I can't find it on the interwebs.
strong
Footballguy
yes. i'd be more forgiving if this was a 1 or 2 year starter or a kid from a small conference. but this guy started 3, 4 years at a big time program for the against near pro level competition. if he he looks this bad now, his ceiling is very, very low.
ivnabru
Footballguy
That's not really a fair comparison. You could have a winning QB with below average passing numbers if he's an above average runner. See Mike Vick in his Atlanta days when he took them to the playoffs more than once with horrible passing stats.That being said Tebow looked bad. Then again the whole offense looked bad, so did the defense. I don't think the blame rests entirely on Tebow for that huge loss. He's just the obvious blame. I thought it was a terrible game plan that forced Tebow to play a style that made all of his negative attributes that much more apparent. He's definitely not ready yet, but I still think he has the chance to become a decent NFL QB (probably not a good chance but a chance nonetheless).
I'll be interested to see how he does next week against Oakland.
This isn't a playoff team no matter who they start at QB. Orton is not the future. Quinn most likely isn't the future. Tebow probably isn't either, but at this point you're not really playing for anything. I'd like to see them give Tebow another 3-4 weeks and if he doesn't improve go to Quinn. That way they can test all these guys out a bit and see if any of them stay on the team next year. Probably none of them will be the starter next season, but it's nice to have a backup who knows the system and has a bit of experience. Not to mention it's a good way for John Fox to mask his incompetence as a head coach and at least get 1 more year.
The Kuhn
Footballguy
Only Kolb and Gabbert could be argued as worse in terms of completion percentage and total yards- even Painter did better yesterday. Brees may have had two INTs, but he still completed 60%+ as opposed to Tebow's 40%. Brady had no picks and also ~60% completions. Even Romo completed roughly half of his passes with the same TD and INT numbers as Tebow.Look at last week as well- Tebow's numbers were almost the same.
shnikies
Footballguy
I'm talking about fantasy football. I'm not a Broncos fan nor do I think Tebow is a good quarterback. All I care about is if he puts up fantasy points and put up more points than Brees. Is he in trouble of losing his job? Maybe, but I know he's going to consistently put up fantasy points as long as he keep rushing for 60 yards every game.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
I agree that you can have "substandard" passing stats and still be a productive quarterback. But you can't win with "horrible" passing stats. Vick won with a 54% completion percentage; McNabb in his worst year was 57%; Elway was terrible his rookie season but brought his average up to around 55% for most of his career. Even Kordell Stewart completed 55% of his passes.To illustrate my point, consider this: no quarterback in the past 20 years has kept his starting job while completing less than 50% of his passes, and only 1 quarterback in the past decade has kept his starting job while completing less than 55% of his passes (Mark Sanchez).
shnikies
Footballguy
I've always felt yards per attempt was a more important stat. Tebow has been horrible this year at 5.4 ypa but his career is 6.7 while Bradford is 6.0. I'm not saying Tebow is as good as Bradford but I don't think completion percentage is as important as it's made out to be.
I think one of Tebow's challenges is that his strength is making something happen when the play breaks down. Unfortunately, you practice all week to make sure the play does not break down. (Of course, yesterday, many plays did not break down until after Tebow released the ball).
Maybe the Broncos should not send in any plays. Just let Tebow call stuff in the huddle, and when the play breaks down, he can work his magic.
Maybe the Broncos should not send in any plays. Just let Tebow call stuff in the huddle, and when the play breaks down, he can work his magic.
packersfan
Footballguy
I think it's a significant stat. It doesn't guarantee you're always moving the chains but it definitely gives you a better chance to extend drives. Tebow's horrible completion percentage yesterday meant the Denver defense was on the field a lot and got worn down (they're not very good defensively to begin with either). Looking at the Top 10 teams in completion percentage and every one of them is a current playoff contender. I don't think that's a coincidence.Look at the 49ers, for example. I don't think Smith is a good QB but he's playing better and he's completing a high percentage of his passes. That's extending drives, enabling the 49ers to run the ball more (which is what they want to do) and win games. There's nothing flashy about the 49ers' passing game (well other than passing to offensive and defensive linemen yesterday) but by completing a high percentage of his passes, Smith is playing within the system and allowing the Niners to make the most of what they can offensively.
shnikies
Footballguy
Couldn't the 49ers running game be the one helping Alex Smith's completion percentage? I really don't want to look like I'm defending Tebow's performance yesterday because he was awful but Moreno and Ball definitely didn't help. For Tebow's sake, he better hope McGahee suits up this week because he needs all the help he can get.
ivnabru
Footballguy
I don't know that I believe that stat. I just looked at Mike Vick and he didn't complete 55% of his passes until year 4. Years 1 and 3 he completed 44% and 50% of his passes. He was a starter from Year 2 on and started a couple games Year 1. I imagine if I looked through there are other examples. I'm not saying Tebow should be starting, just saying the Completion % metric doesn't always mean a whole lot when we're talking about running QBs.
Mario Kart
Footballguy
Receivers were running the wrong routes all day. If you put The Tebow on New England, the Patriots go 13-3 at least. If you put The Tebow on Indianapolis this year... 10-6.Did you watch the game? An 8 foot tall contortionist with a 10 foot wing span couldn't catch the majority of those passes.
packersfan
Footballguy
Having Gore (and Hunter) definitely helps. But Smith has had Gore in the past but this season he's setting a career high in completion percentage. I think Harbaugh deserves a lot of credit for that. Smith's percentage is up and the Niners are winning. Again, I don't think it's a coincidence. As far as Denver yesterday, Moreno and Ball combined for 132 yards on 20 carries so they ran the ball pretty well. As I posted earlier, I think one of the biggest mistakes Denver made was not throwing more screens to Moreno. I think that might've at least helped a little in terms of taking some of the pressure off Tebow and slowing down the Lions' pass rush.
I certainly hope you are joking. If not someone should Baker Act you or the equivilent.Receivers were running the wrong routes all day. If you put The Tebow on New England, the Patriots go 13-3 at least. If you put The Tebow on Indianapolis this year... 10-6.
I'm either laughing with you or at you.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Fantastic shtickReceivers were running the wrong routes all day. If you put The Tebow on New England, the Patriots go 13-3 at least. If you put The Tebow on Indianapolis this year... 10-6.
shnikies
Footballguy
Alex Smith entered his 3rd year with 23 starts under his belt and completed 48.7% of his passes at 4.7 ypa. He also doesn't have the pressure to play catch-up because his defense lets the offense score at will. The only thing Smith proves is that if you give a guy 5 seasons of experience he might finally come around.
Mario Kart
Footballguy
When are people going to point fingers at the coaching? The Tebow has been in the organization for over a year now and we are finding out that he has not improved much over that time. Sorry, why are the coaches not working with him, his mechanics, his timing and all?
I'm blaming the coaches and when they are gone The Tebow will shine. Or, when The Tebow leaves, he will shine elsewhere.
I'm blaming the coaches and when they are gone The Tebow will shine. Or, when The Tebow leaves, he will shine elsewhere.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
Feel free to find other QBs who kept their jobs with sub-55% completion percentages or sub-50% percentages.
packersfan
Footballguy
Smith is completing 63% of his passes this season and the Niners currently have the second-best record in the NFL. Again, I don't think Smith is very good but I definitely believe his significant improvement in terms of completing passes is one of the key reasons why the Niners are off to such a great start.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
You hooked quite a few there.Good point, I think the SEC is still looking to add one team
ivnabru
Footballguy
I already found 1. Now you're saying other than Sanchez and Vick? I don't know if there are others since Vick is the obvious guy and the only one I looked at.
shnikies
Footballguy
I just don't see how comparing Smith to Tebow means anything. Like I said, Smith has been given several chances to succeed. Tebow has been more effective in his first 5 start than Smith was in his third season after previously starting 23 games.
shnikies
Footballguy
Alex Smith in previous seasons. Joe Flacco is under 55% this year and I doubt he's losing his job.
packersfan
Footballguy
You said you didn't believe completion percentage was an important stat. I disagreed and said the Top 10 teams in that stat are all current playoff contenders. I then cited Alex Smith as someone who is having a career year in that category and, not coincidentally in my opinion, his team is off to a terrific start. I think one of the biggest issues Tebow has is an inability to complete passes. If he is going to improve at all I think he needs to start by completing a higher percentage of his passes. Among starting QBs, only Gabbert is completing a lower percentage and I think you'll be hard-pressed to find anyone who thinks Gabbert doesn't stink right now.
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FavreCo
Footballguy
Wouldn't even need to call stuff in the huddle. '1-2-3 breakdown'. Break the huddle, lineup, snap ball, chaos.
shnikies
Footballguy
Aren't the top 10 in yards per attempt playoff quarterbacks sans Cam Newton?
Joe Summer
Footballguy
No you didn't. Vick dipped below 55% but then brought it back up. Alex Smith dipped below 55% but then brought it back up. Flacco is currently below 55% -- and if it stays that way, the historical NFL record says that he WILL lose his job.Show me a guy who went below 55%, stayed there, and kept his job. There's Mark Sanchez and nobody else.Also, you're not exactly doing Tebow a favor by comparing him to Mark Sanchez and Alex Smith. For one thing, those guys managed to win more than 40% of their starts.
packersfan
Footballguy
Could be. I don't know. But I'm not debating whether yards per attempt is a viable stat. I agree with you that it is. I simply disagree with your assertion that completion percentage carries little value. I believe it's quite important.
shnikies
Footballguy
There have been plenty of QBs that have kept their jobs after going full seasons at under 55%.No you didn't. Vick dipped below 55% but then brought it back up. Alex Smith dipped below 55% but then brought it back up. Flacco is currently below 55% -- and if it stays that way, the historical NFL record says that he WILL lose his job.Show me a guy who went below 55%, stayed there, and kept his job. There's Mark Sanchez and nobody else.Also, you're not exactly doing Tebow a favor by comparing him to Mark Sanchez and Alex Smith. For one thing, those guys managed to win more than 40% of their starts.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
Not if they didn't bring it back to 55% the following season.There have been plenty of QBs that have kept their jobs after going full seasons at under 55%.
cheese
Footballguy
For one week? I would agree if his play stays this bad the rest of the way he won't keep his job for next year.
CalBear
Footballguy
John Elway. Five seasons in his first nine under 55% completions.
sports_fan
Footballguy
This could get pretty ugly is he continues to suck and the fans in Denver turn on him. Lot of #### for a young kid to have to deal with.
shnikies
Footballguy
I don't even know what your point is to be honest.Not if they didn't bring it back to 55% the following season.There have been plenty of QBs that have kept their jobs after going full seasons at under 55%.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
Interesting thing about Elway is that he never went 2 seasons in a row under 55%.
I don't understand the people that say "as bad as Tebow was, he still had X# of fantasy points". Come on people, if you are a football fan at all then you know that a QB needs to do more than just be a decent FF QB. I get so confused how people can get behind the reasoning that it's ok if he blows for 3.5 quarters, as long as he does some crazy comeback in the last .5. This is not what an NFL signal caller should be!!!
I was @ the Denver game against the Chargers where Orton was replaced. He was replaced, basically because the fans were chanting Tebow's name as soon as the first pass left Orton's hand. It was the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen. Orton could not complete a 3 step drop, and if he did manage to elude pressure, then he would throw a really good pass, and the WR or TE would drop it. The next thing you could hear was $^ You Orton, you Suck! One woman behind me was yelling Tebow is Jesus, just put him in. It was unbearable to listen to, because I knew by watching this play out over the previous games that Fox was going to give into these idiots. Fox should be ashamed of himself for replacing Orton, and giving in to football fans. I mean, he is the Head Coach. Why the hell is he listening to what the fans have to say. The Tebow defenders will say that the Broncos had to find out what they have in Tebow. However, it was obvious in the off-season and at the beginning of the season that they already knew what they had.
I found myself wondering whether or not Denver actually wants a Professional football team. I am pretty sure that they would rather have a college team to go watch instead.
So, anyway, the 2nd half begins and Tebow comes out on the field and people just start losing their Effing minds over it. I am just shaking my head in disgust, and the next thing I know, I am arguing with the guy next to me about it. You know it was just all I could stand to hear these peoples diatribe about why Tebow should be the starter. So he comes in, and all of the sudden things are completely reversed. Tebow starts having trouble with pressure and these people are now cursing out the O-line. Then he FINALLY throws one of his terrible passes, and the WR has the audacity drop it, or worse even, they cant run fast enough to get it to it because it is such a poor throw and now these fans are cursing out the WR. A complete reversal of everything with Orton, and these hypocrites act like it is no big deal. I called the guy next to me on it, and he says to me "Oh these WR are terrible, we will start the rebuilding process now" so I say "Are you freaking serious? This is Brandon Lloyd we are talking about here, and not only that, but we are also talking about Eric Decker who ORTON was in the process of turning into a stud". He says "Ya, but Lloyd does not like Tebow, he wants Orton, so he is just not going to play for Tebow" Oh My God!! It is just so damned funny to me how Tebow has these folks brainwashed or something. Minutes later, Tebow completes a dump off to Moreno, and there is a TD. The guy starts screaming, I told ya, I freaking told ya. He just makes this team better. I am flabbergasted......I say to him, jesus man...that was dump off pass, and then the rest was all Moreno. He just dismisses this as pure hilarity. @ this point, Tebow still has not completed a single pass to a WR. The next thing you know they have the ball back and BLloyd bails Tebow out on another one of his high school qb passes. I mean it was beautiful, and here the guy goes again. Did you see that, he says? I said "yes, I did, I just saw LLoyd make a great play, and bail you boy out, but I know that you will not see it that way because you just said that he sucks a little while ago, and that he will not play for Tebow". Then he tries to tell me that Tebow had to put the ball there so the defender could not make a play on it, and I am now at a new level of disgust with this, and I say "whatever man, He put that ball where neither the WR or CB could make a play on it, but that Lloyd is a great WR and was able to." I finally am starting to get it @ this point, while people are screaming Tebow is God and We told you Fox, thank god you finally listened.
So I just sat there and watched the rest, and watched the team lose, even though the savior of the franchise was in the game!
I could not believe it the following week when the guy could not do anything against one of the worst teams in the league, and he finally starts to play in the end, and gets bailed out by special teams and Defense. The next thing you know Denver and the NFL media are all talking about the great Tebow, even though he did this against the Dolphins.
Like I said before, fans should be worried when they have a QB who has to be losing with 6 minutes to go in the 4th quarter before he starts to mount a comeback in Garbage time. They will not always get onside kicks and Matt Moore fumbles that will allow garbage time magic. They should be even more scared when this has to be done to the Dolphins, but they were not. They are still enchanted by the 5-6 minutes of watchable football Tebow creates at the end of a Sh***y outing.
So I am so glad that he had to play a real team this week, so that they could see what he is really capable of. This is Tim Tebow, he is not supposed to have 7 sacks - with 2 fumbles (1 of which went for TD). Denver fans should have been more careful what they wished for. Orton should be the starter on that team this season, and then either help build or buy an offensive line, for whoever next years QB will be. That is the real trouble in Denver!
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I was @ the Denver game against the Chargers where Orton was replaced. He was replaced, basically because the fans were chanting Tebow's name as soon as the first pass left Orton's hand. It was the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen. Orton could not complete a 3 step drop, and if he did manage to elude pressure, then he would throw a really good pass, and the WR or TE would drop it. The next thing you could hear was $^ You Orton, you Suck! One woman behind me was yelling Tebow is Jesus, just put him in. It was unbearable to listen to, because I knew by watching this play out over the previous games that Fox was going to give into these idiots. Fox should be ashamed of himself for replacing Orton, and giving in to football fans. I mean, he is the Head Coach. Why the hell is he listening to what the fans have to say. The Tebow defenders will say that the Broncos had to find out what they have in Tebow. However, it was obvious in the off-season and at the beginning of the season that they already knew what they had.
I found myself wondering whether or not Denver actually wants a Professional football team. I am pretty sure that they would rather have a college team to go watch instead.
So, anyway, the 2nd half begins and Tebow comes out on the field and people just start losing their Effing minds over it. I am just shaking my head in disgust, and the next thing I know, I am arguing with the guy next to me about it. You know it was just all I could stand to hear these peoples diatribe about why Tebow should be the starter. So he comes in, and all of the sudden things are completely reversed. Tebow starts having trouble with pressure and these people are now cursing out the O-line. Then he FINALLY throws one of his terrible passes, and the WR has the audacity drop it, or worse even, they cant run fast enough to get it to it because it is such a poor throw and now these fans are cursing out the WR. A complete reversal of everything with Orton, and these hypocrites act like it is no big deal. I called the guy next to me on it, and he says to me "Oh these WR are terrible, we will start the rebuilding process now" so I say "Are you freaking serious? This is Brandon Lloyd we are talking about here, and not only that, but we are also talking about Eric Decker who ORTON was in the process of turning into a stud". He says "Ya, but Lloyd does not like Tebow, he wants Orton, so he is just not going to play for Tebow" Oh My God!! It is just so damned funny to me how Tebow has these folks brainwashed or something. Minutes later, Tebow completes a dump off to Moreno, and there is a TD. The guy starts screaming, I told ya, I freaking told ya. He just makes this team better. I am flabbergasted......I say to him, jesus man...that was dump off pass, and then the rest was all Moreno. He just dismisses this as pure hilarity. @ this point, Tebow still has not completed a single pass to a WR. The next thing you know they have the ball back and BLloyd bails Tebow out on another one of his high school qb passes. I mean it was beautiful, and here the guy goes again. Did you see that, he says? I said "yes, I did, I just saw LLoyd make a great play, and bail you boy out, but I know that you will not see it that way because you just said that he sucks a little while ago, and that he will not play for Tebow". Then he tries to tell me that Tebow had to put the ball there so the defender could not make a play on it, and I am now at a new level of disgust with this, and I say "whatever man, He put that ball where neither the WR or CB could make a play on it, but that Lloyd is a great WR and was able to." I finally am starting to get it @ this point, while people are screaming Tebow is God and We told you Fox, thank god you finally listened.
So I just sat there and watched the rest, and watched the team lose, even though the savior of the franchise was in the game!
I could not believe it the following week when the guy could not do anything against one of the worst teams in the league, and he finally starts to play in the end, and gets bailed out by special teams and Defense. The next thing you know Denver and the NFL media are all talking about the great Tebow, even though he did this against the Dolphins.
Like I said before, fans should be worried when they have a QB who has to be losing with 6 minutes to go in the 4th quarter before he starts to mount a comeback in Garbage time. They will not always get onside kicks and Matt Moore fumbles that will allow garbage time magic. They should be even more scared when this has to be done to the Dolphins, but they were not. They are still enchanted by the 5-6 minutes of watchable football Tebow creates at the end of a Sh***y outing.
So I am so glad that he had to play a real team this week, so that they could see what he is really capable of. This is Tim Tebow, he is not supposed to have 7 sacks - with 2 fumbles (1 of which went for TD). Denver fans should have been more careful what they wished for. Orton should be the starter on that team this season, and then either help build or buy an offensive line, for whoever next years QB will be. That is the real trouble in Denver!
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shnikies
Footballguy
Cool. What's your point, Eli Manning?
shnikies
Footballguy
Because this message board is about fantasy football where people talk about what players will help them win in fantasy football.
CalBear
Footballguy
Yeah, I'm sure that 55.6% in 1986 and 55.2% in 1988 are what saved his job.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
My point is that Tebow's sub-50% performance isn't even good enough to qualify as a "mediocre running quarterback", let alone a "mediocre quarterback".I don't even know what your point is to be honest.Not if they didn't bring it back to 55% the following season.There have been plenty of QBs that have kept their jobs after going full seasons at under 55%.
Randall Cunningham 1987-1989Ron JaworskiTony BanksBob AvelliniFran TarkentonArchie ManningWarren Moon
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ivnabru
Footballguy
Oh you were unclear. So you're saying Tebow if he finishes his career below 55% completion percentage will someday lose his starting job??? That's a pretty stupid argument. We won't know Tebow's career completion percentage until he retires.It sounds more like you're just changing your argument because you were wrong which is fine. Vick's completion percentage didn't dip below 50%. He never finished a season with a completion percentage as high as 55% until his 4th season. And the first time he lost his starting job was because of prison.No you didn't. Vick dipped below 55% but then brought it back up. Alex Smith dipped below 55% but then brought it back up. Flacco is currently below 55% -- and if it stays that way, the historical NFL record says that he WILL lose his job.Show me a guy who went below 55%, stayed there, and kept his job. There's Mark Sanchez and nobody else.Also, you're not exactly doing Tebow a favor by comparing him to Mark Sanchez and Alex Smith. For one thing, those guys managed to win more than 40% of their starts.
