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Official Tim Tebow - The Tebow Era Begins

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Players like Dalton, Cassel, Flacco, Freeman, and Bradford have been throwing the ball a lot more. Here is a pretty comprehensive list of current attempts/game averages for NFL starters:

Brees - 42.2

Flacco - 40.1

Brady - 40.0

Rivers - 39.1

Freeman - 37.8

McCoy - 37.2

Bradford - 36.7

Ryan - 36.4

Newton - 36.3

Roethlisberger - 35.4

Hasselbeck - 34.7

Sanchez - 33.8

Kolb - 32.4

Fitzpatrick - 32.3

Cutler - 31.4

Schaub - 30.7 (omitted last game due to injury)

Cassel - 29.9

A Smith - 26.2

Tebow - 23

Ever since Tebow took over the reigns, the Broncos have adopted what can only be described as an ultra conservative offensive approach. There are a lot of things you can read into these numbers. Different people will reach different conclusions. For me, these stats suggest that the Broncos feel their best chance to win games is to minimize the amount of times Tebow throws. His pass attempts per game are among the lowest in the league (if not the absolute lowest) and are trending downwards. Since his disastrous outing against Detroit, Tebow is only averaging 16 pass attempts per game.

Common sense would suggest that when you are a run-heavy offense that only turns to the passing game in very favorable situations, the quality of your quarterback's opportunities should be above average. So I don't know that you can directly compare Tebow's situation to that of players like Colt McCoy and Sam Bradford, who are shouldering a much bigger percentage of their team's offensive responsibilities and throwing the ball in a wider variety of situations. Defenses who face competent quarterbacks like Ryan and Schaub have to account for the possibility of the pass. When defenses face Tebow, the pass is the least of their concerns. Less defensive attention = easier opportunities = inflated stats. That makes Tebow's poor passing numbers particularly troubling, IMO. He can't even thrive when they limit his passing responsibilities to a handful of favorable situations.

The Broncos seem to feel that their best chance to win games is to minimize Tebow's passing attempts, and I think that says something about their opinion of his quarterbacking skills. You can chalk it up to inexperience (and it's entirely possible that he'll improve in time), but even rookies like Ponder, Dalton, and Newton are averaging significantly more attempts per game. The only guy who's close to Tebow is Gabbert, and he's looked epically bad in his own right.

My hunch is that teams will figure out how to slow down Denver's running game. Then it will be up to Tebow's arm to win games. Judging by what we've seen so far, I'm not optimistic about his ability to deliver. I expect this team to falter down the stretch and fade out of the playoff race. I think Tebow's early win-loss success is more of a fluke than an indicator of strong performance or some kind of inherent knack for "finding a way to win." You can get away with a poor offense when you're constantly playing teams that are struggling to score, but sooner or later shootouts will arise. That's where the real QBs earn their bucks and that's where I would expect Tebow to struggle immensely.

Edited by EBF

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Maybe I missed it, but I'm shocked not to have read someone giving the guy #### a page or two ago for claiming to be a hardcore Denver AND Panthers fan.That's ridiculous.

Na, not ridiculous. I was born in Denver. Moved to NC when I was young (it was called "Skin's Country" back then) and pulled for Denver as we got pounded continuously in Super Bowls. Moved back to Denver and have been moving back and forth ever since. When the Panthers came along it irritated Skins fans so bad and I thought it was great. Started pulling for them their first year. I pull for the Panthers unless they play Denver. I bleed Orange.

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Common sense would suggest that when you are a run-heavy offense that only turns to the passing game in very favorable situations, the quality of your quarterback's opportunities should be above average.

To me, a favorable situation to pass would be second-and-two.For the most part, the Broncos seem to pass only on third-and-fourteen.I think the argument you're making may cut in the opposite direction from what you intend.

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Common sense would suggest that when you are a run-heavy offense that only turns to the passing game in very favorable situations, the quality of your quarterback's opportunities should be above average.

This is what concerns many of us in Denver. Many of Tebow's long passes are completed because the DBs have seen so much running that they can't help but cheat foward a little bit. In all fairness, though, our "top" WR Thomas can't stay on the field to build any chemistry with Tebow so that has to hurt, but that doesn't excuse the poor quality of passes Tebow throws. We are really hoping he gets better at the pass because if he could even become an "average" passer he could give defeneses extreme headaches.

My hunch is that teams will figure out how to slow down Denver's running game. Then it will be up to Tebow's arm to win games. Judging by what we've seen so far, I'm not optimistic about his ability to deliver. I expect this team to falter down the stretch and fade out of the playoff race. I think Tebow's early win-loss success is more of a fluke than an indicator of strong performance or some kind of inherent knack for "finding a way to win." You can get away with a poor offense when you're constantly playing teams that are struggling to score, but sooner or later shootouts will arise. That's where the real QBs earn their bucks and that's where I would expect Tebow to struggle immensely.

I tend to agree with this. God, I hope not. But he's got to get better at throwing or this is what we are looking at.

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Common sense would suggest that when you are a run-heavy offense that only turns to the passing game in very favorable situations, the quality of your quarterback's opportunities should be above average.

To me, a favorable situation to pass would be second-and-two.For the most part, the Broncos seem to pass only on third-and-fourteen.I think the argument you're making may cut in the opposite direction from what you intend.
I tend to agree with EBF but that's a great point you bring up. Makes me curious about the situations he's had to pass in, especially games when he had to pass more than the last few. I wonder how many 2nd and shorts he had and how many he completed. I'll have to look that up later today if no one finds it first.*Edit* changed to "2nd and shorts" Edited by Hoss Style

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Is Tebow worse than?:Craig Morton (Super Bowl with Broncos)David Woodley (Miami Super Bowl QB)Trent Dilfer (Super Bowl, Ravens)Earl Morrall (SB, Colts)Joe Kapp (SB, Vikes)GabbertPainterSanchezPalkoCasselGrossmanBeckPonderDennis DixonT. JacksonWhitehurstKolbJosh JohnsonFeeleyCarrKitnaHanieDerek AndersonMcCoyMooreLosmanBollerBrunellBatch

:lmao: :lmao: Because the league is exactly the same as when Morrall won his rings right? Hell, it's not even the same as when that pile of garbage Dilfer rode a great Ravens D to a ring. Morton, Wood, and Kapp never even in a different era so who cares? Way to strengthen the haters arguments.

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I have said it from the Start - Elway cannot stand Tebow and this is why. Tebow is bigger in Denver already than Elway ever was.

:no: Edited by Mile High

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Maybe I missed it, but I'm shocked not to have read someone giving the guy #### a page or two ago for claiming to be a hardcore Denver AND Panthers fan.That's ridiculous.

I figured it was just another Te-:bow: miracle! -QG

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Players like Dalton, Cassel, Flacco, Freeman, and Bradford have been throwing the ball a lot more. Here is a pretty comprehensive list of current attempts/game averages for NFL starters:

Brees - 42.2

Flacco - 40.1

Brady - 40.0

Rivers - 39.1

Freeman - 37.8

McCoy - 37.2

Bradford - 36.7

Ryan - 36.4

Newton - 36.3

Roethlisberger - 35.4

Hasselbeck - 34.7

Sanchez - 33.8

Kolb - 32.4

Fitzpatrick - 32.3

Dalton - 31.9(really 33.8 if you consider he was injured 1/2 a game)

Cutler - 31.4

Schaub - 30.7 (omitted last game due to injury)

Cassel - 29.9

A Smith - 26.2

Tebow - 23

Edited to add Dalton's number in there as you got me curious. It's amazing how much of a passing league it's become - it at least seems that 20 years ago guys weren't averaging 40 throws per game (though perhaps they were and my memory is shot). It'll be interesting to see if Te-:bow: can get below 20 attempts per game by the end of the year.

-QG

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Not sure if this has been hashed out already, but it was interesting watching sportscenter compare the first 8 starts of both Tebow and Elway's careers.

Elway:

3-5

1,041 passing yards

3TD 10INT

92 rushing yards

1 rush TD

Tebow:

5-3

1,281 passing yards

10TD 4INT

550 rushing yards

5 rush TDs

It seems he's doing fine for what is basically his rookie year. I can't understand why some folks are so quick to call him a failure.

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The Tebow/Elway first eight games comparison is not a good one, because everyone knew back then that, despite his rough NFL start, Elway was a great passer; Tebow's consistent accuracy as a passer is his biggest hurdle to overcome, and it is a major one that he may never overcome.

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The Tebow doesn't need a great runner to win a Super Bowl like Elway needed. No matter how great a passer migh be, all the parts need to be in place. Elway only wins one Super Bowl if Holmgren doesnt sell out Green Bay. The Tebow will have more rings than Elway. Let us pray.

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The Tebow/Elway first eight games comparison is not a good one, because everyone knew back then that, despite his rough NFL start, Elway was a great passer; Tebow's consistent accuracy as a passer is his biggest hurdle to overcome, and it is a major one that he may never overcome.

I'm pretty sure there were plenty of doubters about Elway. People who thought he lacked the accuracy and decision making to be a quality quarterback. I'm guessing nobody doubted his mechanics or arm strength but everyone knowing he was a great passer is a stretch.

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Hey, I still cannot envision long-term success for any QB with those passing skills, but these last few weeks have been interesting.

It's not that often that you get to see something completely original, or new, in the league. The Broncos are running triple option, as part of their offense! They've beaten three straight teams with playoff aspirations, running an offense straight out of the 1940's. It's an interesting little moment in history right now.

Every facet of the team is playing well right now, the line is blocking, and early in the year, this offensive line was straight up terrible. The John Fox/John Elway conspiracy theorists look silly now-Fox and company have really gone to the wall to make this kid work, and have done a great job. The Broncos have become must-see TV, and not just for Tebow, but because they are a very dangerous team, and are playing giant-killer right now.

I live in Bronco country, and the Denver fans I know are a little bemused by the whole thing, kind of a 'hey, let's ride this as long as we can'. Major, major turnaround for the team this year.

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Common sense would suggest that when you are a run-heavy offense that only turns to the passing game in very favorable situations, the quality of your quarterback's opportunities should be above average.

To me, a favorable situation to pass would be second-and-two.For the most part, the Broncos seem to pass only on third-and-fourteen.I think the argument you're making may cut in the opposite direction from what you intend.
I've run the numbers on this, and my suspicion was wrong.I used the Data Dominator. I defined "short" as between 1 and 5 yards to go, "medium" as between 6 and 10 yards to go, and "long" as 11 or more yards to go.It's much easier to pass on second-and-short (league average passer rating = 103.4) than it is on second-and-medium (80.0) or second-and-long (79.1).It's also easier to pass on third-and-short (85.1) than on third-and-medium (79.0) or third-and-long (75.2).In comparing Tebow's distribution of passes to the league average, the biggest differences are that a greater percentage of Tebow's passes have come on 1st-and-medium and 2nd-and-medium, while a smaller percentage have come on 2nd-and-long.On the whole, if you took Tebow's current distribution across all down-and-distance situations (in my rough short-medium-long categories) and instead gave him the NFL average distribution while keeping his own passer rating in each category*, his passer rating goes down by about 1.1. Not a big deal, but it appears that Tebow's pass attempts so far have come in situations that slightly skew his passer rating up rather than down._______*Tebow doesn't have any attempts, and therefore has no passer rating, on 4th and 11+, so I gave him the NFL average passer rating of 17.6 in that situation for purposes of this exercise.

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But here's the issue - there are naysayers across the country on Tebow - and would you rather have Tebow or Sanchez? I know Sanchez has doubters but not to the same magnitude.

The guy on ESPN said it best - I would rather start with a guy that has the clutch gene and work on his skills than take the guy with better skills and work on his clutch gene.

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The Tebow/Elway first eight games comparison is not a good one, because everyone knew back then that, despite his rough NFL start, Elway was a great passer; Tebow's consistent accuracy as a passer is his biggest hurdle to overcome, and it is a major one that he may never overcome.

I'm pretty sure there were plenty of doubters about Elway. People who thought he lacked the accuracy and decision making to be a quality quarterback. I'm guessing nobody doubted his mechanics or arm strength but everyone knowing he was a great passer is a stretch.
There were a lot of people ripping Elway his rookie year. Of course a lot of people already didn't like him because of the way he forced the Colts to trade him.

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I live in Bronco country, and the Denver fans I know are a little bemused by the whole thing, kind of a 'hey, let's ride this as long as we can'. Major, major turnaround for the team this year.

Make that two of us.Lost in this discussion is the job that the DEN coaching staff is doing in shaping the team on both sides of the ball.To take the OFF and tailor it to the players drafted by the previous regime is just flat making lemonade from lemons. The staff has done an amazing job with the OFF side of the ball, with their game planning and play selection. To take that DEF from last year and make it into a serviceable group is the same deal. "Drow Paige" wrote a DP column with the stats from the first starts by HOF QB's, including Elway's start up line through his first eight games. None of those "first few games" starter lines set the world on fire as most had more INT's than TD's and all were similar to Tebow's stat line.Oh, a little ditty about TEBOW and his combine results: his time in one of the measureables stuck out....it was the drill where you measure direction change ability...his short shuttle time of 4.1 seconds. To put that in perspective, Dexter McCluster was at 4.0 seconds. When Timmy outflanked the Jet's on that 20 yarder he just flat out-quicked a mis-matched SS to the edge.Two TD's in last year's final games were scored off of the same play call: heavy formation to the right and Tebow taking a jab step right then reversing on a dime ($.08 change) and outracing the contain man to the left (wide side of the field) perimeter. Thursday night was the same play from from a slightly different formation....same result though. Edited by Toads

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The Tebow/Elway first eight games comparison is not a good one, because everyone knew back then that, despite his rough NFL start, Elway was a great passer; Tebow's consistent accuracy as a passer is his biggest hurdle to overcome, and it is a major one that he may never overcome.

I'm pretty sure there were plenty of doubters about Elway. People who thought he lacked the accuracy and decision making to be a quality quarterback. I'm guessing nobody doubted his mechanics or arm strength but everyone knowing he was a great passer is a stretch.
Having lived here in Denver the two major complaints were throwing into triple and double coverage and always throwing it 1000mph - even to a back 5 yards away (Which drove Dan Reeves who made a living off the screen in Dallas crazy). Overall his accuracy(unless you want to count touch on the ball) was not really challenged by his critics here - I would never characterize it as plenty. He would always hit a player in the numbers - it would always bounce off them. The other complaints were about his ability to pick up the offense in that first year - he struggled with reads which lead to alot of those double coverage throws - more double coverage throws came because he did have that cannon for an arm and he always felt he could beat the coverage - especially on the run.

Tebow does have the benefit that his games came late in the first year in garbage time and in his second year after having some time to "absorb" the offense(short of some OTAs) - Elway pretty much got thrown in right away his first year - but his second year was really good.

As a Bronco fan I'd love to see Tebow become Elway - but right now I don't see that happening - but I do see a QB that can win you some games with his other skills. I'm thinking he can't last long doing a lot of running - especially in this day of concussion awareness. Steve Young played this hard and he got knocked cuckoo for cocoa puffs quite a few times and kept going - he'd never be allowed to do that today . Tebow will get knocked hard sometime if he continues to plays like this - and he'll be forced to sit a week or two - the odds are stacked against him, he's playing russian roulette. But right now Tebow is not a QB but he is a football player - as someone said - I'm enjoying the ride as it stands now.

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The Tebow/Elway first eight games comparison is not a good one, because everyone knew back then that, despite his rough NFL start, Elway was a great passer; Tebow's consistent accuracy as a passer is his biggest hurdle to overcome, and it is a major one that he may never overcome.

I'm pretty sure there were plenty of doubters about Elway. People who thought he lacked the accuracy and decision making to be a quality quarterback. I'm guessing nobody doubted his mechanics or arm strength but everyone knowing he was a great passer is a stretch.
Having lived here in Denver the two major complaints were throwing into triple and double coverage and always throwing it 1000mph - even to a back 5 yards away (Which drove Dan Reeves who made a living off the screen in Dallas crazy). Overall his accuracy(unless you want to count touch on the ball) was not really challenged by his critics here - I would never characterize it as plenty. He would always hit a player in the numbers - it would always bounce off them. The other complaints were about his ability to pick up the offense in that first year - he struggled with reads which lead to alot of those double coverage throws - more double coverage throws came because he did have that cannon for an arm and he always felt he could beat the coverage - especially on the run.

Tebow does have the benefit that his games came late in the first year in garbage time and in his second year after having some time to "absorb" the offense(short of some OTAs) - Elway pretty much got thrown in right away his first year - but his second year was really good.

As a Bronco fan I'd love to see Tebow become Elway - but right now I don't see that happening - but I do see a QB that can win you some games with his other skills. I'm thinking he can't last long doing a lot of running - especially in this day of concussion awareness. Steve Young played this hard and he got knocked cuckoo for cocoa puffs quite a few times and kept going - he'd never be allowed to do that today . Tebow will get knocked hard sometime if he continues to plays like this - and he'll be forced to sit a week or two - the odds are stacked against him, he's playing russian roulette. But right now Tebow is not a QB but he is a football player - as someone said - I'm enjoying the ride as it stands now.

I don't think anyone is trying to say Tebow is going to be Elway when they show those stats. I think it's just to show the irony of the situation. The fact they haven't come out and given Tebow the reigns for the rest of the year is perplexing. Elway did quarterback the Broncos to the playoffs his second season but that was more because of the pass rush and dominant secondary than Elway himself. You'd think Elway would have a little sympathy for a heavily criticized young quarterback being that he himself was once one also.

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I just thought I would post this tweet from Elway. I don't know why, all the people who are conspiracy theorists and think that he wants Tebow to fail aren't going to change their minds because of this, but here goes anyway.

Tim's doing a great job leading our offense, coming through when we need him the most. He's a winner who gets better every day.

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But here's the issue - there are naysayers across the country on Tebow - and would you rather have Tebow or Sanchez? I know Sanchez has doubters but not to the same magnitude.The guy on ESPN said it best - I would rather start with a guy that has the clutch gene and work on his skills than take the guy with better skills and work on his clutch gene.

That's not the issue, at all. Taking a guy over Sanchez, what's that worth? Who cares? The issue is, can the team win a title with its QB?

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But here's the issue - there are naysayers across the country on Tebow - and would you rather have Tebow or Sanchez? I know Sanchez has doubters but not to the same magnitude.The guy on ESPN said it best - I would rather start with a guy that has the clutch gene and work on his skills than take the guy with better skills and work on his clutch gene.

That's not the issue, at all. Taking a guy over Sanchez, what's that worth? Who cares? The issue is, can the team win a title with its QB?
I would guess it is important. Most NFL games are decided by one score meaning at some point in the 4th quarter your offense will have a chance to put a drive together to tie or win the game. If a quarterback has the clutch gene he only needs to be competent enough with a competent enough defense to keep his team within one score. I guess it comes down to the fact "the guy on ESPN" would rather have Tebow running his offense at the end of the game than Sanchez.

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Question: Does Favreco come in here this week?

Why wouldn't I. I don't disappear and run and hide like others.Creampuff opponents are over with. I already predicted the win over the hapless Chiefs. ####, they lost to Miami. Next up, Jets. Any of you man enough to predict how that goes for Tebow? I am and I predict a loss and another terrible performance as we saw today. This type of football will get you nowhere.
So...
Where is Mr Mouth?
Right here. Go ahead and lower your Tebow FF scoring average. New low. BTW, his current average puts him at ham and egger, losing FF franchise levels. I'll stick with guys that can bust 25-30+ on occasion, not 20.
Including the Jets game, Tebow's FF points per game average is still QB9 since he started playing in Week 5. That's better than Matt Ryan, Matt Schaub, Matthew Stafford, and Michael Vick. And it's less than a point behind Tom Brady. He's a solid, low-end QB1, just like many of us predicted he would be a couple of months ago.Not bad for a waiver wire pickup.

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Question: Does Favreco come in here this week?

Why wouldn't I. I don't disappear and run and hide like others.Creampuff opponents are over with. I already predicted the win over the hapless Chiefs. ####, they lost to Miami. Next up, Jets. Any of you man enough to predict how that goes for Tebow? I am and I predict a loss and another terrible performance as we saw today. This type of football will get you nowhere.
So...
Where is Mr Mouth?
Right here. Go ahead and lower your Tebow FF scoring average. New low. BTW, his current average puts him at ham and egger, losing FF franchise levels. I'll stick with guys that can bust 25-30+ on occasion, not 20.
Including the Jets game, Tebow's FF points per game average is still QB9 since he started playing in Week 5. That's better than Matt Ryan, Matt Schaub, Matthew Stafford, and Michael Vick. And it's less than a point behind Tom Brady. He's a solid, low-end QB1, just like many of us predicted he would be a couple of months ago.Not bad for a waiver wire pickup.
Not to mention he "busted" for 25.9 points against the Raiders in addition to "busting" for 24.7, 27.1 and 31.6 in the three weeks he started last year. "Busting" for 24.7+ for 4 out of his first 8 starts is pretty decent and "busting" out 21 points per start ain't shabby either.

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I have said it from the Start - Elway cannot stand Tebow and this is why. Tebow is bigger in Denver already than Elway ever was.

this is total BS

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I have said it from the Start - Elway cannot stand Tebow and this is why. Tebow is bigger in Denver already than Elway ever was.

this is total BS
Seriously, there aren't many athletes anywhere bigger than Elway is in Denver.

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Tebow is bigger in Denver already than Elway ever was.

There's a "fascination" with Tebow right now, but if that defense can't hold up and we get into 55 minutes of "3 & out's" with a 15-20 point deficit with 5 to play... they'll be crying for Brady Quinn or wearing Luck #12 Bronco's jersey's.To steal a line from Keyshawn Johnson, Elway was/is a star, and Tebow is more like a flashlight.

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Tebow is bigger in Denver already than Elway ever was.

There's a "fascination" with Tebow right now, but if that defense can't hold up and we get into 55 minutes of "3 & out's" with a 15-20 point deficit with 5 to play... they'll be crying for Brady Quinn or wearing Luck #12 Bronco's jersey's.To steal a line from Keyshawn Johnson, Elway was/is a star, and Tebow is more like a flashlight.
I remember Elway SUCKING for a long time. He eventually became a good QB, but not when he started. Not by a long shot. Why do you hold a second year player who has started 8 games up to the career standard of a HOF QB?

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But here's the issue - there are naysayers across the country on Tebow - and would you rather have Tebow or Sanchez? I know Sanchez has doubters but not to the same magnitude.The guy on ESPN said it best - I would rather start with a guy that has the clutch gene and work on his skills than take the guy with better skills and work on his clutch gene.

That's not the issue, at all. Taking a guy over Sanchez, what's that worth? Who cares? The issue is, can the team win a title with its QB?
I would guess it is important. Most NFL games are decided by one score meaning at some point in the 4th quarter your offense will have a chance to put a drive together to tie or win the game. If a quarterback has the clutch gene he only needs to be competent enough with a competent enough defense to keep his team within one score. I guess it comes down to the fact "the guy on ESPN" would rather have Tebow running his offense at the end of the game than Sanchez.
More than that - to a point mechanics can be corrected. Much tougher to teach a guy to win games when it's on the line.

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Tebow is going to revolutionize the QB position.Virtual HoF lock.

:goodposting:
:goodposting: :goodposting:
:lmao: Looks like either you or me will be closing out this thead down the road. Vegas currently has the odds in my favor at 99.99%

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Tebow is going to revolutionize the QB position.Virtual HoF lock.

:goodposting:
:goodposting: :goodposting:
:lmao: Looks like either you or me will be closing out this thead down the road. Vegas currently has the odds in my favor at 99.99%
So you're telling me there's a chance..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCFB2akLh4s Edited by two_dollars

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No love for Mark Sanchise?

He did after all throw the pic-6 to keep Denver in the ball game on Thursday.

Does God hate Mark Sanchez?

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So here's where I am at right now WRT Tebow... he's a top notch game manager.

Almost every football coach will say at some point in their careers: to win, you have to do three things:

[*]Run the Football.

[*]Stop the run.

[*]Don't turn the ball over.

It's a tried and true formula for success. Yes, this is a passing league, especially in 2011, but there has been successful teams in the modern era that have won the superbowl following this model. look at 2005 Steelers w/ rookie Roetheisburger. Look at 2001 and 2004 Patriots. Of course, you have to have a solid defense, but if your offense is able to take time off of the clock and not turn it over with a short field, the defense will see immediate improvement.

Tebow accounts for 2/3's of the above - he has helped the running game, and he has really reduced the turnovers. Let's look at some stats to see Tebows effects. We actually do have some pretty good data here - 4 games for Orton, 5 games for Tebow (not counting SD game, both guys played a half in that one). both samples include a blowout - Orton vs GB and Tebow vs Det.

Running the football:

w/ Orton, Denver has averaged 23 rushes and 86.75 yards per game...3.65 YPA.

w/ Tebow, Denver has averaged 39 rushes and 192.4 yards per game...4.91 YPA.

As a team, even if you take Tebow's contributions out of the mix, the team averages 29.4 rushes and 122. yards per game...4.16 YPA. Still, a marked improvement. Bottom line - the team is running the ball better with Tebow under center. One might think that his ineptitude in throwing the ball would cause the defense to crowd the line and shut it down...the Jets did that to a degree but Tebow eventually found a hole.

Turnovers:

w/ Orton, Denver has averaged 2.75 turnovers per game, Orton accounting for 2 per game(6 int and 2 fumbles in 4 games).

w/ Tebow, Denver has averaged 1.0 turnovers per game, Tebow accounting for 0.4 per game ( 1 int and 1 fumble in 5 games).

As much as folks rag on Tebows throwing (dis)ability, he is taking care of the ball. When he misses, he misses bad enough that opposing defenses don't really have a chance to make a play on the ball either. I think that he is missing some of these throws so bad because he is trying really hard to put the ball where only his guy can make a play, over-compensating for the small "NFL window". That, and the play-calling, I think, is set up to limit mistakes...he's really only attempting relatively safe throws like bubble screens, shovel passes, sideline routes or going deep.

I'm not trying to come in here and say that Denver is 4-1 since the bye and place that completely on Tebow becasue the defense and special teams have done some great stuff. I lay the Miami win on Special Teams becasue of the on-side recover, the NYJ win on defense...but no way does Denver beat oakland w/ Orton, and probably not KC either. That being said, we have to acknowlege that Tebow has played a big role in turning this team around, and it's becuase of his contributions to the running game and taking care of the ball. It's his role as a game manager that is allowing this team to fourish and actually be in the playoff hunt.

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:goodposting:

Well said.. and as a life long Broncos fan.. Von Miller will be the key of this turn around of the Defense. He is just a beast!!

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Chargers will beat Timmy on Sunday.

They are 6.5 point favorites. They're favorites like the Broncos' last 5 opponents. Four of those favorites lost.

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Chargers will beat Timmy on Sunday.

They are 6.5 point favorites. They're favorites like the Broncos' last 5 opponents. Four of those favorites lost.
Chargers will win by at least 7.

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Chargers will beat Timmy on Sunday.

They are 6.5 point favorites. They're favorites like the Broncos' last 5 opponents. Four of those favorites lost.
Chargers will win by at least 7.
Has to be more than 7. If it was less, Tebow would win it with a last minute drive.

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Chargers will beat Timmy on Sunday.

Huge Chargers fan here...I think Bolts will have harder time. Von Miller and Champ going to pressure Rivers/take away VJ. Chargers defense has been horrific against run and pass.Last time they played, Chargers barely won...only cause Tebow came in at end of game...he was leading them back, but ran out of time.Chargers have always been horrible against scramble/run QBs....their DL can't contain, and their secondary breaks down after more than 5 seconds......

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This rather defies explanation; Kyle Orton waived:http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ycn-10506849Even if you think Tebow is Jesus in cleats, why would you waive a perfectly servicable backup QB? (Other than to keep fans from second-guessing you when he sucks for 60 minutes instead of 55).

To save 2.5 million dollars? I'm pretty sure they considered Quinn the next in line before they cut him anyway. We also don't know the whole story. They might be doing Orton a favor

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This rather defies explanation; Kyle Orton waived:http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ycn-10506849Even if you think Tebow is Jesus in cleats, why would you waive a perfectly servicable backup QB? (Other than to keep fans from second-guessing you when he sucks for 60 minutes instead of 55).

1. save money2. reassure Tebow3. eliminate locker room tension4. give Orton a chance to play elsewhere

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This rather defies explanation; Kyle Orton waived:http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ycn-10506849Even if you think Tebow is Jesus in cleats, why would you waive a perfectly servicable backup QB? (Other than to keep fans from second-guessing you when he sucks for 60 minutes instead of 55).

1. save money2. reassure Tebow3. eliminate locker room tension4. give Orton a chance to play elsewhere
1,2,3 make sense.Do NFL teams really care about #4?

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