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Official Tim Tebow - The Tebow Era Begins

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9 career starts, folks. 9 starts, straddling an off-season w/ no contact w/ coaches, as well as a head-coaching change. A bit early to throw out words like 'never', imo.

Especially when you consider what he has done at the end of games when they have opened up the offense. The idea that he couldn't possibly expand that kind of production to the rest of the game with more experience seems somewhat irrational to me.

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Dallas

Giants

Eagles with Vick

New England

Detroit

Green Bay

Pittsburgh

Houston before losing Schaub

These are the teams in the NFL that have consistent good offenses. I don't believe that the Tebow led Denver can handle any of them. Against them, the Broncos would not be able to keep up. During Tebow's run, he only had to play one of these (Detroit) and the Broncos lost badly. During the next 5 games he only has to play one more (New England) and I predict the Broncos will lose badly again.

Against all other teams in the NFL, Denver has a shot to win, because the offenses for those teams are not consistent. All Denver has to do is score around 17-20 and keep the other team under that number. With a good defense they can manage it. But if you are a Denver fan, you need to recognize that Tebow will NEVER get you to where you want to go because in the end he'll always have to face a team with a good offense. And then he'll lose.

So Denver is not in the elite class of the NFL yet. I think we can agree on that. Not sure what Houston pre-injury has anything to do with the rest of the season. Or why Pittsburgh, which is 19th in the league in scoring points and currently struggling to score on a bad KC team (and struggled vs Indy and Jax) is listed as one of these supposedly unbeatable offensive forces, either. But let's just go ahead and ride this one out and see what happens before we start jumping to conclusions and assuming that Tebow will "NEVER" get Denver to where it wants to go. FWIW, logic probably says they lose most of the games they played this past month too...We'll see where it goes, but right now it's looking better than a few weeks back at 1-4.
Everyone one of those teams has 1, 2, or even 3 great WRs. Tebow has Erik Decker. He has potential to be good, but he is not Megatron, AJ, Welker, Jennings, Mike Wallace,Maclin, DJax, and so on.

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It's hard to throw interceptions when you don't throw the ball. Denver rushed 51 times today and only threw the ball 18 times. The coaches have done a nice job of tailoring their gameplan to suit their talent by limiting Tebow's passing attempts and rushing the football a lot more than they did with Orton. It's a conservative approach designed to shorten the game, minimize risk, and avoid turnovers. It's a viable strategy when your defense can hold opponents below 20 points, but it's not a strategy that will work against a high-powered offense.

Yep. It's basically just a more extreme version of the formula Bill Parcells won 10 games and a Wildcard spot with Quincy Carter as his starting QB in 2003.Or how Harbaugh was running the 49ers this year. They were dead last in the NFL in pass attempts and 28th in passing yardage. I guess Alex Smith has magical leadership abilities. Edited by InmanRoshi

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It's hard to throw interceptions when you don't throw the ball. Denver rushed 51 times today and only threw the ball 18 times. The coaches have done a nice job of tailoring their gameplan to suit their talent by limiting Tebow's passing attempts and rushing the football a lot more than they did with Orton. It's a conservative approach designed to shorten the game, minimize risk, and avoid turnovers. It's a viable strategy when your defense can hold opponents below 20 points, but it's not a strategy that will work against a high-powered offense.

Yep. It's basically just a more extreme version of the formula Bill Parcells won 10 games and a Wildcard spot with Quincy Carter as his starting QB in 2003.Or how Harbaugh was running the 49ers this year. They were dead last in the NFL in pass attempts and 28th in passing yardage. I guess Alex Smith has magical leadership abilities.
Alex Smith is completing 62.4% of his passes for a 7.1 yard average. Tim Tebow is completing 45.5% of his passes for a 6.0 yard average.Tebow might become a good quarterback in this league but right now he's so bad he's making Alex Smith look like Peyton Manning.The only impressive thing about him is the low interception rate. But according to Chase Stuart that's "the most random of all QB statistics."

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Denver is still a paper tiger. The minute they face a team that scores points, they'll lose.

I'm pretty sure the Raiders and Chargers both score points, and they both lost at home to the Broncos in the last month.
San Diego was putrid on offense today. They had several opportunities to score points in overtime, but couldn't sustain a drive. The real story of Denver's lucky run is their defense and the ineptitude of their opponents, not Tebow. Denver's offense has been totally mediocre, but they have been winning games because their defense has kept the score low. That's partially because their schedule has been easy. Detroit (who killed them) is the only team they have faced recently who ranks in the top 10 in the league in points per game. The others are:San Diego - 13thOakland - 15thNew York - 16thMiami - 22ndKansas City - 28thDenver's style won't work against teams that can score 20+ points with ease. As soon as Tebow is forced to carry the team, he will be exposed as the liability that he is. People are being way too results-oriented and not looking closely at the performances. He's been struggling mightily in the passing game despite an ultra conservative gameplan that calls for fewer passing attempts per game than any other team in the league. He will be exposed sooner or later and is unlikely to even be a starter in the league two years from now barring massive improvements as a passer.
Not to take anything away from the Broncos defense but having an offense that rarely, if ever, turns the ball over is helpful. I'd be interested to see how many points off of Orton turnovers vs Tebow turnovers the Broncos defense has given up this year.
The Broncos gave up 34 points off of 9 Orton turnovers in 4 1/2 games or 7.56 points a game.The Broncos have given up 7 points off of 2 Tebow turnovers in 6 1/2 games or 1.08 points a game.So, for those that wonder how Tebow has made the defense better, that's how.
Great posting.
:goodposting:
:goodposting: Never mind field position and time of possession.

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It's hard to throw interceptions when you don't throw the ball. Denver rushed 51 times today and only threw the ball 18 times. The coaches have done a nice job of tailoring their gameplan to suit their talent by limiting Tebow's passing attempts and rushing the football a lot more than they did with Orton. It's a conservative approach designed to shorten the game, minimize risk, and avoid turnovers. It's a viable strategy when your defense can hold opponents below 20 points, but it's not a strategy that will work against a high-powered offense.

Yep. It's basically just a more extreme version of the formula Bill Parcells won 10 games and a Wildcard spot with Quincy Carter as his starting QB in 2003.Or how Harbaugh was running the 49ers this year. They were dead last in the NFL in pass attempts and 28th in passing yardage. I guess Alex Smith has magical leadership abilities.
Alex Smith is completing 62.4% of his passes for a 7.1 yard average. Tim Tebow is completing 45.5% of his passes for a 6.0 yard average.Tebow might become a good quarterback in this league but right now he's so bad he's making Alex Smith look like Peyton Manning.The only impressive thing about him is the low interception rate. But according to Chase Stuart that's "the most random of all QB statistics."
But Tebow is also rushing for 70 yards a game with an average of 5.8 ypc. Tebow's rushing eats clock time and keeps their defense off the field. Plus Tebow not turning the ball over often also helps the defense rarely giving the other team really great field position. Tebow may not play defense, but he certainly has contributed to their vast improvement on the defensive side of the ball.

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Random fact of the day.

Before Tebow took over as QB, Willis McGahee led all Bronco RBs with 17 targets. The rest of the Broncos RBs combined had 16 targets.

Since Tebow took over as QB, Willis McGahee precisely zero targets. The rest of the Broncos RBs combined have 20 targets.

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Random fact of the day.

Before Tebow took over as QB, Willis McGahee led all Bronco RBs with 17 targets. The rest of the Broncos RBs combined had 16 targets.

Since Tebow took over as QB, Willis McGahee precisely zero targets. The rest of the Broncos RBs combined have 20 targets.

Screens would make too much sense to run for the Broncos to actually do it.

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Random fact of the day.

Before Tebow took over as QB, Willis McGahee led all Bronco RBs with 17 targets. The rest of the Broncos RBs combined had 16 targets.

Since Tebow took over as QB, Willis McGahee precisely zero targets. The rest of the Broncos RBs combined have 20 targets.

Pretty unbelievable. How can you not dump off to your starting RB at least once or twice a game?

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I've been watching the O-line closely since Denver went full-blown read option. It's interesting to me that the linemen all stay on their feet. Why not employ the cut-blocking scheme like Paul Johnson teaches at Georgia Tech? It's perfectly legal (though some say unethical), and teams running the ZBS have used it.

Seems like Tebow and Willis would be even more unstoppable if defenders had to worry about getting their legs broken in addition to not knowing who the hell has the football. No? :shrug:

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The amount of running the Broncos do, now, shortens the game greatly. Imagine if The Tebow completed 3-6 more passes a game? The TOP for the Broncos would be a much greater differential. Also, since the Broncos try to keep drives going along with few turnovers, the defense is rested and ready to go.

Yeah, the way the Broncos are winning may not be pretty or flashy or be the greatest show on turf but it is effective. Completing a couple more passes a game with a little better scoring efficientcy and the Broncos are hard to beat. Ugly but winning.

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"A pair of former first-rounders embrace after the game; one with no Super Bowl rings, and the other with NO CHANCE to ever get a Super Bowl ring."
Rivers: How do you do it?

Tebow: Do what?

Rivers: Win.

Edited by shnikies

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Random fact of the day.

Before Tebow took over as QB, Willis McGahee led all Bronco RBs with 17 targets. The rest of the Broncos RBs combined had 16 targets.

Since Tebow took over as QB, Willis McGahee precisely zero targets. The rest of the Broncos RBs combined have 20 targets.

Pretty unbelievable. How can you not dump off to your starting RB at least once or twice a game?
Probably worth noting that McGahee was playing with a surgically repaired broken hand for a good chunk of that time, and missed all or most of two games. It's not like the RB targets have stopped, they just stopped to him.

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The only time the Broncos throw is off playaction. McGahee is faking the handoff and plunging into the defensive line on every Broncos pass attempt.

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The only time the Broncos throw is off playaction. McGahee is faking the handoff and plunging into the defensive line on every Broncos pass attempt.

:no:

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Dallas

Giants

Eagles with Vick

New England

Detroit

Green Bay

Pittsburgh

Houston before losing Schaub

These are the teams in the NFL that have consistent good offenses. I don't believe that the Tebow led Denver can handle any of them. Against them, the Broncos would not be able to keep up.

Compare apples to oranges much? :confused:

Dallas: Romo has been starting for the same team for the last 6 years, AND has stud WRs and TE. And he's never won squat.

Giants: Eli has been starting for the same team for the last 8 season AND has stud WRs and TE. He's won 1 Super Bowl.

Eagles: Vick/McNabb have had the same offense and coaching for over a decade, as well as great WRs. They have one Super Bowl appearance, no wins.

Patriots: the premier team in the league, Brady has been starting for the last 11 seasons with a few Super Bowls.

Detroit: The Lions have Calvin Johnson and not much else, have never won anything.

Green Bay: Rodgers is among the top 5 QBs of all time, stud WRs and TEs, and has been in the same system for 7 seasons.

Pittsburgh: Big Ben has been starting in the same system for 8 seasons, plays for a well run organization with always strong defenses, and have several Super Bowls to show for it.

Houston: Schaub's been in the league for 8 seasons, 5 in the same offense with an uber-stud WR, great RBs and a stable franchise. And nothing to show for it.

On the other hand, Tebow is:

- playing in his 2nd season, for his 2nd coach,

- playing with a squad who has never played in this offense,

- executing plays for an offensive coordinator who's never run this offense,

- playing without a stud WR (Brandon Lloyd) who got traded away for peanuts,

- playing without a decent TE,

- playing without the starting RB (Moreno),

and finally

- leading his team to a 5-1 record while the team's manager is out shopping for a future QB.

Elway should stop thinking about finding a starting QB and begin finding better WRs, TEs, and RBs to support this offense and his winning QB. Give Tebow, Fox, et.al. a few years to improve on the offensive skills and execution of the entire team and then start comparing him/them to the other well-established teams in the league.

:boxing:

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Denver is still a paper tiger. The minute they face a team that scores points, they'll lose.

I'm pretty sure the Raiders and Chargers both score points, and they both lost at home to the Broncos in the last month.
San Diego was putrid on offense today. They had several opportunities to score points in overtime, but couldn't sustain a drive.

The real story of Denver's lucky run is their defense and the ineptitude of their opponents, not Tebow. Denver's offense has been totally mediocre, but they have been winning games because their defense has kept the score low. That's partially because their schedule has been easy. Detroit (who killed them) is the only team they have faced recently who ranks in the top 10 in the league in points per game. The others are:

San Diego - 13th

Oakland - 15th

New York - 16th

Miami - 22nd

Kansas City - 28th

Denver's style won't work against teams that can score 20+ points with ease. As soon as Tebow is forced to carry the team, he will be exposed as the liability that he is. People are being way too results-oriented and not looking closely at the performances. He's been struggling mightily in the passing game despite an ultra conservative gameplan that calls for fewer passing attempts per game than any other team in the league. He will be exposed sooner or later and is unlikely to even be a starter in the league two years from now barring massive improvements as a passer.

Not to take anything away from the Broncos defense but having an offense that rarely, if ever, turns the ball over is helpful. I'd be interested to see how many points off of Orton turnovers vs Tebow turnovers the Broncos defense has given up this year.
The Broncos gave up 34 points off of 9 Orton turnovers in 4 1/2 games or 7.56 points a game.

The Broncos have given up 7 points off of 2 Tebow turnovers in 6 1/2 games or 1.08 points a game.

So, for those that wonder how Tebow a change in an offensive gameplan has made the defense better, that's how.

Now, it's a :goodposting: . Let's not get carried away.

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"A pair of former first-rounders embrace after the game; one with no Super Bowl rings, and the other with NO CHANCE to ever get a Super Bowl ring."
Rivers: I can't believe I lost to you. How were you able to do it.

Tebow: It wasn't difficult. Do you want to see me walk on water?

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Denver is still a paper tiger. The minute they face a team that scores points, they'll lose.

I'm pretty sure the Raiders and Chargers both score points, and they both lost at home to the Broncos in the last month.
San Diego was putrid on offense today. They had several opportunities to score points in overtime, but couldn't sustain a drive.

The real story of Denver's lucky run is their defense and the ineptitude of their opponents, not Tebow. Denver's offense has been totally mediocre, but they have been winning games because their defense has kept the score low. That's partially because their schedule has been easy. Detroit (who killed them) is the only team they have faced recently who ranks in the top 10 in the league in points per game. The others are:

San Diego - 13th

Oakland - 15th

New York - 16th

Miami - 22nd

Kansas City - 28th

Denver's style won't work against teams that can score 20+ points with ease. As soon as Tebow is forced to carry the team, he will be exposed as the liability that he is. People are being way too results-oriented and not looking closely at the performances. He's been struggling mightily in the passing game despite an ultra conservative gameplan that calls for fewer passing attempts per game than any other team in the league. He will be exposed sooner or later and is unlikely to even be a starter in the league two years from now barring massive improvements as a passer.

Not to take anything away from the Broncos defense but having an offense that rarely, if ever, turns the ball over is helpful. I'd be interested to see how many points off of Orton turnovers vs Tebow turnovers the Broncos defense has given up this year.
The Broncos gave up 34 points off of 9 Orton turnovers in 4 1/2 games or 7.56 points a game.

The Broncos have given up 7 points off of 2 Tebow turnovers in 6 1/2 games or 1.08 points a game.

So, for those that wonder how Tebow a change in an offensive gameplan has made the defense better, that's how.

Now, it's a :goodposting: . Let's not get carried away.
How many NFL QB's could be successful running the current broncos O, with as few turnovers as they have had?

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1) Hang in there Phil, someday you might be almost as good as me.

or

2) "...it's really not that hard. I just throw to the guys wearing the same color as me. You should try it."

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Denver is still a paper tiger. The minute they face a team that scores points, they'll lose.

I'm pretty sure the Raiders and Chargers both score points, and they both lost at home to the Broncos in the last month.
San Diego was putrid on offense today. They had several opportunities to score points in overtime, but couldn't sustain a drive.

The real story of Denver's lucky run is their defense and the ineptitude of their opponents, not Tebow. Denver's offense has been totally mediocre, but they have been winning games because their defense has kept the score low. That's partially because their schedule has been easy. Detroit (who killed them) is the only team they have faced recently who ranks in the top 10 in the league in points per game. The others are:

San Diego - 13th

Oakland - 15th

New York - 16th

Miami - 22nd

Kansas City - 28th

Denver's style won't work against teams that can score 20+ points with ease. As soon as Tebow is forced to carry the team, he will be exposed as the liability that he is. People are being way too results-oriented and not looking closely at the performances. He's been struggling mightily in the passing game despite an ultra conservative gameplan that calls for fewer passing attempts per game than any other team in the league. He will be exposed sooner or later and is unlikely to even be a starter in the league two years from now barring massive improvements as a passer.

Not to take anything away from the Broncos defense but having an offense that rarely, if ever, turns the ball over is helpful. I'd be interested to see how many points off of Orton turnovers vs Tebow turnovers the Broncos defense has given up this year.
The Broncos gave up 34 points off of 9 Orton turnovers in 4 1/2 games or 7.56 points a game.

The Broncos have given up 7 points off of 2 Tebow turnovers in 6 1/2 games or 1.08 points a game.

So, for those that wonder how Tebow a change in an offensive gameplan has made the defense better, that's how.

Now, it's a :goodposting: . Let's not get carried away.

:confused:

The change in the offensive gameplan was because of Tebow. Do you think if Orton had never been benched Denver would be running this offense?

Pretend you have a small ball team in the NL and you trade for Pujols and Bautista. Suddenly the manager stops playing small ball and says swing away. Is the likely increase in HRs due to a change in gameplan?

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Denver is still a paper tiger. The minute they face a team that scores points, they'll lose.

I'm pretty sure the Raiders and Chargers both score points, and they both lost at home to the Broncos in the last month.
San Diego was putrid on offense today. They had several opportunities to score points in overtime, but couldn't sustain a drive.

The real story of Denver's lucky run is their defense and the ineptitude of their opponents, not Tebow. Denver's offense has been totally mediocre, but they have been winning games because their defense has kept the score low. That's partially because their schedule has been easy. Detroit (who killed them) is the only team they have faced recently who ranks in the top 10 in the league in points per game. The others are:

San Diego - 13th

Oakland - 15th

New York - 16th

Miami - 22nd

Kansas City - 28th

Denver's style won't work against teams that can score 20+ points with ease. As soon as Tebow is forced to carry the team, he will be exposed as the liability that he is. People are being way too results-oriented and not looking closely at the performances. He's been struggling mightily in the passing game despite an ultra conservative gameplan that calls for fewer passing attempts per game than any other team in the league. He will be exposed sooner or later and is unlikely to even be a starter in the league two years from now barring massive improvements as a passer.

Not to take anything away from the Broncos defense but having an offense that rarely, if ever, turns the ball over is helpful. I'd be interested to see how many points off of Orton turnovers vs Tebow turnovers the Broncos defense has given up this year.
The Broncos gave up 34 points off of 9 Orton turnovers in 4 1/2 games or 7.56 points a game.

The Broncos have given up 7 points off of 2 Tebow turnovers in 6 1/2 games or 1.08 points a game.

So, for those that wonder how Tebow a change in an offensive gameplan has made the defense better, that's how.

Now, it's a :goodposting: . Let's not get carried away.

Yes, it's the gameplan that's allowed Tebow to throw one interception in 143 attempts.

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Tebow gives them short term excitement and sells tickets but unless he can win a super bowl if they change their team around him they could be sacrificing the future for short term gains.

Vick and Dunn did the same in Atlanta for awhile until defenses caught up.

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Whatever we do, let's not give any credit to the kid. Surely the team's success has been due to any reason except him.

If anything they'd be 6-0 with Quinn at the helm.

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They clearly haven't beaten any good teams. Afterall, how good can a team that loses to Tebow actually be?

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It will be interesting to see if this offense is sustainable when D-coordinators have a full off season to break down film.

Ya, but the same could be said that if Denver actually sticks to an offensive game plan that they are running now and they too will have a full off season to tweak and make it better.If Tebow can continue to progress as a passer, he actually can have a very solid NFL career. They won't have to run the option so much.
I agree that Tebow can have a good career but I wonder if the majority of that career will be in an option offense. It's working now and it's fun to watch but so was the wildcat, which went out with a whimper.

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Tebow gives them short term excitement and sells tickets but unless he can win a super bowl if they change their team around him they could be sacrificing the future for short term gains.Vick and Dunn did the same in Atlanta for awhile until defenses caught up.

Yeah, but the teams caught up partially by acquiring new personel to stop Vick. Much like the Packers drafted CBs for years after Moss came into the league.Unless the rest of the division finds the right guys in Free Agency it may take a year or two before drafted players are up to stopping the new option in Denver. It was Vick's 4th year when they went to the NFC Championship game.There's a good chance that by then Tebow isn't even a starter.

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It will be interesting to see if this offense is sustainable when D-coordinators have a full off season to break down film.

Good point. Bit the broncos will have a full offseason too. Trent Richardson would be a great addition.
Tebow is not going to be a Bronco next year unless he improves considerably in the passing game before the season is over. Elway and Fox would need to build a team around his strengths and they will not be willing to do that.

The fans will revolt. Not sure how you get rid of a guy who wins.

Paging AJ Smith. AJ Smith to the white courtesy phone.

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Tebow gives them short term excitement and sells tickets but unless he can win a super bowl if they change their team around him they could be sacrificing the future for short term gains.Vick and Dunn did the same in Atlanta for awhile until defenses caught up.

People keep saying this, but if you were able to tailor the offense to suit Tebow in a matter of 3-4 weeks, I don't get how they couldn't switch back in the same amount of time (at most). I mean, they surely didn't burn the playbook they were using with Orton. So I don't get how if/when Tebow gets injured or defenses shut it down it'll throw the Broncos offense back into the stone ages for years.

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Denver is still a paper tiger. The minute they face a team that scores points, they'll lose.

I'm pretty sure the Raiders and Chargers both score points, and they both lost at home to the Broncos in the last month.
San Diego was putrid on offense today. They had several opportunities to score points in overtime, but couldn't sustain a drive.

The real story of Denver's lucky run is their defense and the ineptitude of their opponents, not Tebow. Denver's offense has been totally mediocre, but they have been winning games because their defense has kept the score low. That's partially because their schedule has been easy. Detroit (who killed them) is the only team they have faced recently who ranks in the top 10 in the league in points per game. The others are:

San Diego - 13th

Oakland - 15th

New York - 16th

Miami - 22nd

Kansas City - 28th

Denver's style won't work against teams that can score 20+ points with ease. As soon as Tebow is forced to carry the team, he will be exposed as the liability that he is. People are being way too results-oriented and not looking closely at the performances. He's been struggling mightily in the passing game despite an ultra conservative gameplan that calls for fewer passing attempts per game than any other team in the league. He will be exposed sooner or later and is unlikely to even be a starter in the league two years from now barring massive improvements as a passer.

Not to take anything away from the Broncos defense but having an offense that rarely, if ever, turns the ball over is helpful. I'd be interested to see how many points off of Orton turnovers vs Tebow turnovers the Broncos defense has given up this year.
The Broncos gave up 34 points off of 9 Orton turnovers in 4 1/2 games or 7.56 points a game.

The Broncos have given up 7 points off of 2 Tebow turnovers in 6 1/2 games or 1.08 points a game.

So, for those that wonder how Tebow a change in an offensive gameplan has made the defense better, that's how.

Now, it's a :goodposting: . Let's not get carried away.

Yes, it's the gameplan that's allowed Tebow to throw one interception in 143 attempts.
I'm glad someone agrees (kind of). Because it's pretty simple to see that, of course, Orton couldn't run this exact offense. It's pretty obvious that if we ran the same amount with Orton at QB, or any other QB, we'd be using the RBs instead of the QB. And if our defense was playing lights out, as it is now, it would allow us to run 50+ times some games and still have a shot at the end because the game is still within reach. Add in a nice run against teams that couldn't score well against an average defense, much less the Bronco's D, and our Speacial Teams and Defense steping up to make plays to put us in a position to win at the end of the game... I'll stop now, because you could ignore all this and just state individual stats and act like they aren't the result of these things as opposed to the cause - but it would make no sense.

Basically - yes. This "run first" attitude could be run with a regular QB, as well, given the way the rest of the team is playing and the competiion we have faced, as well as some clutch plays made by the QB (but instead of a few runs lets say a few passes). It's very reasonable to assume this would be the case.

Again, I'm not against Tebow getting his shot. I'm against excessive slobbering on either side. Too many Tebow haters ignore the way he is clutch at the end of games and too many Tebow lovers ignore his horrible play for the majority of games and the way the rest of the team is enabling Tebow to make his plays at the end. Not to mention the competition we've played.

Edited by Hoss Style

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Denver is still a paper tiger. The minute they face a team that scores points, they'll lose.

I'm pretty sure the Raiders and Chargers both score points, and they both lost at home to the Broncos in the last month.
San Diego was putrid on offense today. They had several opportunities to score points in overtime, but couldn't sustain a drive.

The real story of Denver's lucky run is their defense and the ineptitude of their opponents, not Tebow. Denver's offense has been totally mediocre, but they have been winning games because their defense has kept the score low. That's partially because their schedule has been easy. Detroit (who killed them) is the only team they have faced recently who ranks in the top 10 in the league in points per game. The others are:

San Diego - 13th

Oakland - 15th

New York - 16th

Miami - 22nd

Kansas City - 28th

Denver's style won't work against teams that can score 20+ points with ease. As soon as Tebow is forced to carry the team, he will be exposed as the liability that he is. People are being way too results-oriented and not looking closely at the performances. He's been struggling mightily in the passing game despite an ultra conservative gameplan that calls for fewer passing attempts per game than any other team in the league. He will be exposed sooner or later and is unlikely to even be a starter in the league two years from now barring massive improvements as a passer.

Not to take anything away from the Broncos defense but having an offense that rarely, if ever, turns the ball over is helpful. I'd be interested to see how many points off of Orton turnovers vs Tebow turnovers the Broncos defense has given up this year.
The Broncos gave up 34 points off of 9 Orton turnovers in 4 1/2 games or 7.56 points a game.

The Broncos have given up 7 points off of 2 Tebow turnovers in 6 1/2 games or 1.08 points a game.

So, for those that wonder how Tebow a change in an offensive gameplan has made the defense better, that's how.

Now, it's a :goodposting: . Let's not get carried away.

Yes, it's the gameplan that's allowed Tebow to throw one interception in 143 attempts.
I'm glad someone agrees (kind of). Because it's pretty simple to see that, of course, Orton couldn't run this exact offense. It's pretty obvious that if we ran the same amount with Orton at QB, or any other QB, we'd be using the RBs instead of the QB. And if our defense was playing lights out, as it is now, it would allow us to run 50+ times some games and still have a shot at the end because the game is still within reach. Add in a nice run against teams that couldn't score well against an average defense, much less the Bronco's D, and our Speacial Teams and Defense steping up to make plays to put us in a position to win at the end of the game... I'll stop now, because you could ignore all this and just state individual stats and act like they aren't the result of these things as opposed to the cause - but it would make no sense.

Basically - yes. This "run first" attitude could be run with a regular QB, as well, given the way the rest of the team is playing and the competiion we have faced, as well as some clutch plays made by the QB (but instead of a few runs lets say a few passes). It's very reasonable to assume this would be the case.

Again, I'm not against Tebow getting his shot. I'm against excessive slobbering on either side. Too many Tebow haters ignore the way he is clutch at the end of games and too many Tebow lovers ignore his horrible play for the majority of games and the way the rest of the team is enabling Tebow to make his plays at the end. Not to mention the competition we've played.

My point was simply stating that though the Broncos are playing better defense, some of the decline in points they've allowed per game can be attributed to Tebow's ability to protect the ball. It's not just the game plan. Tebow has 1 interception in 143 attempts while Orton had 7 interceptions in 157 attempts. Orton's 6.3 yards per attempt is barely better than Tebow's 6.0 yards per attempt. Orton threw a pick 4.5% of the time vs Tebow's 0.7%. All of this will make a defense look better on paper.

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Denver is still a paper tiger. The minute they face a team that scores points, they'll lose.

I'm pretty sure the Raiders and Chargers both score points, and they both lost at home to the Broncos in the last month.
San Diego was putrid on offense today. They had several opportunities to score points in overtime, but couldn't sustain a drive.

The real story of Denver's lucky run is their defense and the ineptitude of their opponents, not Tebow. Denver's offense has been totally mediocre, but they have been winning games because their defense has kept the score low. That's partially because their schedule has been easy. Detroit (who killed them) is the only team they have faced recently who ranks in the top 10 in the league in points per game. The others are:

San Diego - 13th

Oakland - 15th

New York - 16th

Miami - 22nd

Kansas City - 28th

Denver's style won't work against teams that can score 20+ points with ease. As soon as Tebow is forced to carry the team, he will be exposed as the liability that he is. People are being way too results-oriented and not looking closely at the performances. He's been struggling mightily in the passing game despite an ultra conservative gameplan that calls for fewer passing attempts per game than any other team in the league. He will be exposed sooner or later and is unlikely to even be a starter in the league two years from now barring massive improvements as a passer.

Not to take anything away from the Broncos defense but having an offense that rarely, if ever, turns the ball over is helpful. I'd be interested to see how many points off of Orton turnovers vs Tebow turnovers the Broncos defense has given up this year.
The Broncos gave up 34 points off of 9 Orton turnovers in 4 1/2 games or 7.56 points a game.

The Broncos have given up 7 points off of 2 Tebow turnovers in 6 1/2 games or 1.08 points a game.

So, for those that wonder how Tebow a change in an offensive gameplan has made the defense better, that's how.

Now, it's a :goodposting: . Let's not get carried away.

Yes, it's the gameplan that's allowed Tebow to throw one interception in 143 attempts.
I'm glad someone agrees (kind of). Because it's pretty simple to see that, of course, Orton couldn't run this exact offense. It's pretty obvious that if we ran the same amount with Orton at QB, or any other QB, we'd be using the RBs instead of the QB. And if our defense was playing lights out, as it is now, it would allow us to run 50+ times some games and still have a shot at the end because the game is still within reach. Add in a nice run against teams that couldn't score well against an average defense, much less the Bronco's D, and our Speacial Teams and Defense steping up to make plays to put us in a position to win at the end of the game... I'll stop now, because you could ignore all this and just state individual stats and act like they aren't the result of these things as opposed to the cause - but it would make no sense.

Basically - yes. This "run first" attitude could be run with a regular QB, as well, given the way the rest of the team is playing and the competiion we have faced, as well as some clutch plays made by the QB (but instead of a few runs lets say a few passes). It's very reasonable to assume this would be the case.

Again, I'm not against Tebow getting his shot. I'm against excessive slobbering on either side. Too many Tebow haters ignore the way he is clutch at the end of games and too many Tebow lovers ignore his horrible play for the majority of games and the way the rest of the team is enabling Tebow to make his plays at the end. Not to mention the competition we've played.

It is easier to shut down a run heavy game when you are using the HB because the D can stack the box and attack the runner. You can't do that with Tebow because he is capable of throwing the ball. In fact, the offense will just get better if the threat of the pass becomes more credible.

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I'm glad someone agrees (kind of). Because it's pretty simple to see that, of course, Orton couldn't run this exact offense. It's pretty obvious that if we ran the same amount with Orton at QB, or any other QB, we'd be using the RBs instead of the QB. And if our defense was playing lights out, as it is now, it would allow us to run 50+ times some games and still have a shot at the end because the game is still within reach. Add in a nice run against teams that couldn't score well against an average defense, much less the Bronco's D, and our Speacial Teams and Defense steping up to make plays to put us in a position to win at the end of the game... I'll stop now, because you could ignore all this and just state individual stats and act like they aren't the result of these things as opposed to the cause - but it would make no sense.

Basically - yes. This "run first" attitude could be run with a regular QB, as well, given the way the rest of the team is playing and the competiion we have faced, as well as some clutch plays made by the QB (but instead of a few runs lets say a few passes). It's very reasonable to assume this would be the case.

Again, I'm not against Tebow getting his shot. I'm against excessive slobbering on either side. Too many Tebow haters ignore the way he is clutch at the end of games and too many Tebow lovers ignore his horrible play for the majority of games and the way the rest of the team is enabling Tebow to make his plays at the end. Not to mention the competition we've played.

It is easier to shut down a run heavy game when you are using the HB because the D can stack the box and attack the runner. You can't do that with Tebow because he is capable of throwing the ball. In fact, the offense will just get better if the threat of the pass becomes more credible.
:goodposting:

This is why it works with Tebow and wouldn't necessarily work with any QB. When your QB IS one of the RBs, it's more effective - you in effect have an extra player. When the Broncos go with an "empty backfield" - there is still a RB back there. When they go 1 RB - they really have two.

Basically Tebow gives you the advantage of having a good RB who happens to be a legit threat to throw the ball.

Earlier in the year, some people were suggesting putting Tebow and Orton in the game at the same time (i.e. having Tebow play RB and use HB options/passes occasionally) - but that actually nullfies the advantage. Why have a 2nd QB on the field, when you could have an extra WR or TE or OL?

IMHO, the real reason the Denver offense should be sustainable in the long run is that Tebow is not a QB that can run - he as an RB that can throw. The difference in semantics may seem silly, but the point is he gives the Broncos an advantage on offense that no other team has. If he can become even a slightly better passer, and OC was even more creative, the Broncos would become one of those offenses that keeps DCs up at night.

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It will be interesting to see if this offense is sustainable when D-coordinators have a full off season to break down film.

Good point. Bit the broncos will have a full offseason too. Trent Richardson would be a great addition.
Tebow is not going to be a Bronco next year unless he improves considerably in the passing game before the season is over. Elway and Fox would need to build a team around his strengths and they will not be willing to do that.
The fans will revolt. Not sure how you get rid of a guy who wins.
If it were my choice I wouldn't trade him but it's not, it's Elway's. Elway said the starting QB for next year isn't on the roster and I believe him. The only way that changes is if Tebow makes big improvements.
When did he say this? I've heard Mark Schlereth say this but have not seen or heard where Elway has said it. Do you have a link to this?

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I'm glad someone agrees (kind of). Because it's pretty simple to see that, of course, Orton couldn't run this exact offense. It's pretty obvious that if we ran the same amount with Orton at QB, or any other QB, we'd be using the RBs instead of the QB. And if our defense was playing lights out, as it is now, it would allow us to run 50+ times some games and still have a shot at the end because the game is still within reach. Add in a nice run against teams that couldn't score well against an average defense, much less the Bronco's D, and our Speacial Teams and Defense steping up to make plays to put us in a position to win at the end of the game... I'll stop now, because you could ignore all this and just state individual stats and act like they aren't the result of these things as opposed to the cause - but it would make no sense.

Basically - yes. This "run first" attitude could be run with a regular QB, as well, given the way the rest of the team is playing and the competiion we have faced, as well as some clutch plays made by the QB (but instead of a few runs lets say a few passes). It's very reasonable to assume this would be the case.

Again, I'm not against Tebow getting his shot. I'm against excessive slobbering on either side. Too many Tebow haters ignore the way he is clutch at the end of games and too many Tebow lovers ignore his horrible play for the majority of games and the way the rest of the team is enabling Tebow to make his plays at the end. Not to mention the competition we've played.

It is easier to shut down a run heavy game when you are using the HB because the D can stack the box and attack the runner. You can't do that with Tebow because he is capable of throwing the ball. In fact, the offense will just get better if the threat of the pass becomes more credible.
:goodposting:

This is why it works with Tebow and wouldn't necessarily work with any QB. When your QB IS one of the RBs, it's more effective - you in effect have an extra player. When the Broncos go with an "empty backfield" - there is still a RB back there. When they go 1 RB - they really have two.

Basically Tebow gives you the advantage of having a good RB who happens to be a legit threat to throw the ball.

Earlier in the year, some people were suggesting putting Tebow and Orton in the game at the same time (i.e. having Tebow play RB and use HB options/passes occasionally) - but that actually nullfies the advantage. Why have a 2nd QB on the field, when you could have an extra WR or TE or OL?

IMHO, the real reason the Denver offense should be sustainable in the long run is that Tebow is not a QB that can run - he as an RB that can throw. The difference in semantics may seem silly, but the point is he gives the Broncos an advantage on offense that no other team has. If he can become even a slightly better passer, and OC was even more creative, the Broncos would become one of those offenses that keeps DCs up at night.

Great points. The wildcat would have worked, but the problem with it is that teams rarely throw out of it. I always said that if teams would run the wildcat and throw out of it more, it is a viable offense.

With Tebow, you essentially have the wildcat and he can run or throw. He just needs to continue to improve in his passing abilities.

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If it were my choice I wouldn't trade him but it's not, it's Elway's. Elway said the starting QB for next year isn't on the roster and I believe him. The only way that changes is if Tebow makes big improvements.

When did he say this? I've heard Mark Schlereth say this but have not seen or heard where Elway has said it. Do you have a link to this?
I never heard Elway say this either. I have heard that Elway, when asked if the Tebow was definately the QB of the future, responded by saying no, that hadn't been decided.

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Tim Tebow's career stats: 47% passing, 1500 yards, 6.69 ypc, 13 td's 4 ints

Matt Stafford's first season: 53% passing, 2200 yards, 6.01 ypc, 13 td's 20 int's

Why are people so sure that Tebow is a horrible passer? Much of the problem is that the coordinators don't let him throw it enough. Yeah, he has accuracy problems, and he needs to fix that. But his numbers aren't bad for a rookie, which is basically what he is.

He doesn't turn the ball over, he makes big plays, he completes long passes and has alot of TD throws for the limited number of attempts he has.

Oh, and the Broncos traded away his only real proven NFL receiver right before he took over as the starter.

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Denver is still a paper tiger. The minute they face a team that scores points, they'll lose.

I'm pretty sure the Raiders and Chargers both score points, and they both lost at home to the Broncos in the last month.
San Diego was putrid on offense today. They had several opportunities to score points in overtime, but couldn't sustain a drive.

The real story of Denver's lucky run is their defense and the ineptitude of their opponents, not Tebow. Denver's offense has been totally mediocre, but they have been winning games because their defense has kept the score low. That's partially because their schedule has been easy. Detroit (who killed them) is the only team they have faced recently who ranks in the top 10 in the league in points per game. The others are:

San Diego - 13th

Oakland - 15th

New York - 16th

Miami - 22nd

Kansas City - 28th

Denver's style won't work against teams that can score 20+ points with ease. As soon as Tebow is forced to carry the team, he will be exposed as the liability that he is. People are being way too results-oriented and not looking closely at the performances. He's been struggling mightily in the passing game despite an ultra conservative gameplan that calls for fewer passing attempts per game than any other team in the league. He will be exposed sooner or later and is unlikely to even be a starter in the league two years from now barring massive improvements as a passer.

Not to take anything away from the Broncos defense but having an offense that rarely, if ever, turns the ball over is helpful. I'd be interested to see how many points off of Orton turnovers vs Tebow turnovers the Broncos defense has given up this year.
The Broncos gave up 34 points off of 9 Orton turnovers in 4 1/2 games or 7.56 points a game.

The Broncos have given up 7 points off of 2 Tebow turnovers in 6 1/2 games or 1.08 points a game.

So, for those that wonder how Tebow a change in an offensive gameplan has made the defense better, that's how.

Now, it's a :goodposting: . Let's not get carried away.

Yes, it's the gameplan that's allowed Tebow to throw one interception in 143 attempts.
I'm glad someone agrees (kind of). Because it's pretty simple to see that, of course, Orton couldn't run this exact offense. It's pretty obvious that if we ran the same amount with Orton at QB, or any other QB, we'd be using the RBs instead of the QB. And if our defense was playing lights out, as it is now, it would allow us to run 50+ times some games and still have a shot at the end because the game is still within reach. Add in a nice run against teams that couldn't score well against an average defense, much less the Bronco's D, and our Speacial Teams and Defense steping up to make plays to put us in a position to win at the end of the game... I'll stop now, because you could ignore all this and just state individual stats and act like they aren't the result of these things as opposed to the cause - but it would make no sense.

Basically - yes. This "run first" attitude could be run with a regular QB, as well, given the way the rest of the team is playing and the competiion we have faced, as well as some clutch plays made by the QB (but instead of a few runs lets say a few passes). It's very reasonable to assume this would be the case.

Again, I'm not against Tebow getting his shot. I'm against excessive slobbering on either side. Too many Tebow haters ignore the way he is clutch at the end of games and too many Tebow lovers ignore his horrible play for the majority of games and the way the rest of the team is enabling Tebow to make his plays at the end. Not to mention the competition we've played.

It is easier to shut down a run heavy game when you are using the HB because the D can stack the box and attack the runner. You can't do that with Tebow because he is capable of throwing the ball. In fact, the offense will just get better if the threat of the pass becomes more credible.
No argument here. Tebow makes it harder to stop because he can run as a QB. It would still be possible to gear the offense towards the run with a traditional QB, as we have been, against the teams we've been playing. But you'll get no disagreement from me with the fact that Tebow makes it more difficult to defend against. Maybe defenses will catch up to it next year - or maybe they won't. Edited by Hoss Style

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I still don't get why many bring up the wildcat in reference to the current Broncos offense, like, "Teams will figure out Tebow just like they did the wildcat." That is just stupid. The wildcat became easy to figure out because any team could practice against it during the week since every team had RBs that could run it against their defense. I am pretty sure that every team in the league doesn't have a guy the size and with the skills of Tebow to practice against. That alone makes it a tad more difficult to prepare for. Look at the Jets game. They were prepared for it, but when the game was on the line, they underestimated Tebow's quickness getting outside and he burned them for the winning TD. You can't practice against that when no one else has that skill set. Tebow and the Broncos offense may very well have a similar shelf life as the wildcat when it comes to effectiveness, but that will be nothing more than a coincidence.

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I still don't get why many bring up the wildcat in reference to the current Broncos offense, like, "Teams will figure out Tebow just like they did the wildcat." That is just stupid. The wildcat became easy to figure out because any team could practice against it during the week since every team had RBs that could run it against their defense. I am pretty sure that every team in the league doesn't have a guy the size and with the skills of Tebow to practice against. That alone makes it a tad more difficult to prepare for. Look at the Jets game. They were prepared for it, but when the game was on the line, they underestimated Tebow's quickness getting outside and he burned them for the winning TD. You can't practice against that when no one else has that skill set. Tebow and the Broncos offense may very well have a similar shelf life as the wildcat when it comes to effectiveness, but that will be nothing more than a coincidence.

:goodposting: That's what makes this so much fun. The chess match is riveting. Modern defenses trying to gameplan for an offense out of the 1950s. That's why, as I stated earlier, I can't wait to see the game against New England in week 15. By the time the teams meet, Belichick will have over two months of film on Tebow. If he can't figure out the proper defensive scheme, nobody will.I think the formula is probably simple. Executing it is another matter entirely. You need three solid cover men who can shut down the two WRs and the TE one-on-one. The other eight defenders crowd the box and fill every gap. The Jets did that effectively for 55 minutes, then as you said, the safety who had contain made a terrible mistake and let Tebow get to the edge.

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New England might be a bad matchup for this Broncos offense, not just because of Belichick, but because the pass defense is clearly NE's weakness, and the Broncos don't have the QB with the passing skills or the WRs to take advantage of that.

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New England might be a bad matchup for this Broncos offense, not just because of Belichick, but because the pass defense is clearly NE's weakness, and the Broncos don't have the QB with the passing skills or the WRs to take advantage of that.

It would be awesome if Denver went 5-wide on their entire first drive.(With Brady Quinn at QB, of course... :P )

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From what I understand, defending a option is pretty easy - everyone stays home and honors their responsabilities. It's just a matter of discipline.

I think thats why Tebow is having success late in games. After 55 munutes, players are tired, and they have been having success, so they get more agressive and start to react before they read... In other words, instincts start to take over, they commit pre-maturely, and Tebow is excellent at exploiting an overpursuit.

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I think the formula is probably simple. Executing it is another matter entirely. You need three solid cover men who can shut down the two WRs and the TE one-on-one. The other eight defenders crowd the box and fill every gap. The Jets did that effectively for 55 minutes, then as you said, the safety who had contain made a terrible mistake and let Tebow get to the edge.

Been saying that from the get go. With The Tebow they don't even have to be solid. When the chiefs failed, there were 2 guys chasing Decker because they screwed up. htere is never a reason to double cover any Tebow receiver, ever. There should have been the #1 corner on him and right with him. Let the other guy handle the run.

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From what I understand, defending a option is pretty easy - everyone stays home and honors their responsabilities. It's just a matter of discipline. I think thats why Tebow is having success late in games. After 55 munutes, players are tired, and they have been having success, so they get more agressive and start to react before they read... In other words, instincts start to take over, they commit pre-maturely, and Tebow is excellent at exploiting an overpursuit.

I think Tebow's late game success has more to do with the Broncos running 50 times/game. The defense is tired and beat up. Defending the run takes more out of you than defending the pass. Those offensive linemen get to hit you instead of block you. The guys with the ball are usually bigger than WRs catching the ball too, plus they're coming at you.:boxing: If the Broncos can keep it close enough to keep running the ball over and over they're going to move the ball easier against most teams later in the game.I'll be interested to see what Belichick schemes, but I'm not sure he'll be able to come up with a better plan than the Jets did. They brought in the big guys (I think they had 4 or 5 300 pound guys on the field). Plus their LB coach was from an option college. He knows the strengths and weaknesses of the offense.

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