Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
Elway was asked if he's any closer to feeling the Broncos have their quarterback of the future on their roster and he said "No". This was after the Jets game and obviously things can change but it's obvious this isn't the style of quarterback he wants to stake his executive career on.
Yes, Tebow/Willis are a much bigger combo QB/RB than what most colleges send out there in their versions of this offense.I think Tebow's late game success has more to do with the Broncos running 50 times/game. The defense is tired and beat up. Defending the run takes more out of you than defending the pass. Those offensive linemen get to hit you instead of block you. The guys with the ball are usually bigger than WRs catching the ball too, plus they're coming at you.If the Broncos can keep it close enough to keep running the ball over and over they're going to move the ball easier against most teams later in the game.
That and he has been so horrible for 58 minutes that they let up the last 2 thinking the game is in the bag.
Is Raider suggesting that one of the 8 in the box is responsible for the TE, or suggesting 8 in the box plus single coverage on Wr-Wr-Te. If it is the latter, and an NFL defense tried to 1v1 with no help on two WRs, they would get torched very VERY quickly by any NFL starting or backup QB.
'jonboltz said:
And what of the first San Diego game where he came in and did the same thing after Denver was running a normal offense all game? What about the games last year where he ran a normal offense and did the same thing at the end?There's a lot more to it than just "defenses are tired". There have been plenty of teams that leaned on the run all game long and didn't have a last minute comeback 5 times in 50 games, much less 5 times in 6 games.The whole idea that the defense just happens to get tired on that *exact* drive (not one drive earlier and not one drive later) every time is a bit absurd.The fact of the matter is that late in the game Tebow reverts. He forgets all the nonsense that Fox and Elway have taught him about changing his throwing motions, progressing through his reads, etc, and he just plays football.What happened here is that Tebow "just played football" against Detroit and he had an awful game and Fox and Elway over-reacted. Awful games are to be expected as a young quarterback. Even Tom Brady had an awful game (even worse than Tebow was in the Lions game) early in his career. Matt Stafford had several. Donovan Mcnabb had damn near a dozen of them. But people were already so sure that Tebow couldn't play in the NFL that as soon as he had his it was one quick jump to "ok we've got to totally change things up obviously this isn't going to work".It was funny to watch Denver run up the middle all game against Miami to a 15-0 deficit with 5 minutes left. Then they pull the leash off and Tebow goes back to his "bad" habits and they score 15 points on their final two drives to send it to overtime. In overtime it's straight back to a bunch of HB dives up the middle for 2 yards.If it were me, I'd just let Tebow be Tebow and take the good with the bad for the first 2 years and hope that he turns into what Donovan Mcnabb was in his prime (not deadly accurate, but enough of a playmaker to make up for it). Mcnabb's big failing was his late game collapses which seems to be the exact opposite of Tebow. Would you take a guy who's Donovan Mcnabb in his prime for the first 55 minutes of a game and Ben Roethlisberger x2 for the last 5 minutes? That's what Tebow's upside is if they'd let him just play and quit worrying about what made a prototype QB 15 years ago. Instead we get this silly offense that isn't going to work long-term and only stunts Tebow's growth.'ivnabru said:I think Tebow's late game success has more to do with the Broncos running 50 times/game. The defense is tired and beat up. Defending the run takes more out of you than defending the pass. Those offensive linemen get to hit you instead of block you. The guys with the ball are usually bigger than WRs catching the ball too, plus they're coming at you.'moleculo said:
I said it helps.In the SD game he threw a pass on one of their final drives it was a clear pass interference at the 1 yard line. The refs missed it and they settled for a FG. But it was a pretty good drive that probably would have won the game earlier if the refs made the call.Against KC that throw wasn't the final drive but it was later in the game.Against Oakland it wasn't last drive heroics.Against Miami they put together a couple late game drives.They're doing it in the 4th quarter not the last drive. And yes I think it helps tire out a defense when your run 50 times a game. That's a lot of the reason why Tebow's entire 4th quarter rating is so high not just final drive rating. It's not everything he's a better QB when he's out there when he has a bit more freedom. But that's not everything.And what of the first San Diego game where he came in and did the same thing after Denver was running a normal offense all game? What about the games last year where he ran a normal offense and did the same thing at the end?There's a lot more to it than just "defenses are tired". There have been plenty of teams that leaned on the run all game long and didn't have a last minute comeback 5 times in 50 games, much less 5 times in 6 games.The whole idea that the defense just happens to get tired on that *exact* drive (not one drive earlier and not one drive later) every time is a bit absurd.The fact of the matter is that late in the game Tebow reverts. He forgets all the nonsense that Fox and Elway have taught him about changing his throwing motions, progressing through his reads, etc, and he just plays football.What happened here is that Tebow "just played football" against Detroit and he had an awful game and Fox and Elway over-reacted. Awful games are to be expected as a young quarterback. Even Tom Brady had an awful game (even worse than Tebow was in the Lions game) early in his career. Matt Stafford had several. Donovan Mcnabb had damn near a dozen of them. But people were already so sure that Tebow couldn't play in the NFL that as soon as he had his it was one quick jump to "ok we've got to totally change things up obviously this isn't going to work".It was funny to watch Denver run up the middle all game against Miami to a 15-0 deficit with 5 minutes left. Then they pull the leash off and Tebow goes back to his "bad" habits and they score 15 points on their final two drives to send it to overtime. In overtime it's straight back to a bunch of HB dives up the middle for 2 yards.If it were me, I'd just let Tebow be Tebow and take the good with the bad for the first 2 years and hope that he turns into what Donovan Mcnabb was in his prime (not deadly accurate, but enough of a playmaker to make up for it). Mcnabb's big failing was his late game collapses which seems to be the exact opposite of Tebow. Would you take a guy who's Donovan Mcnabb in his prime for the first 55 minutes of a game and Ben Roethlisberger x2 for the last 5 minutes? That's what Tebow's upside is if they'd let him just play and quit worrying about what made a prototype QB 15 years ago. Instead we get this silly offense that isn't going to work long-term and only stunts Tebow's growth.'ivnabru said:I think Tebow's late game success has more to do with the Broncos running 50 times/game. The defense is tired and beat up. Defending the run takes more out of you than defending the pass. Those offensive linemen get to hit you instead of block you. The guys with the ball are usually bigger than WRs catching the ball too, plus they're coming at you.'moleculo said:
And what of the first San Diego game where he came in and did the same thing after Denver was running a normal offense all game? What about the games last year where he ran a normal offense and did the same thing at the end?There's a lot more to it than just "defenses are tired". There have been plenty of teams that leaned on the run all game long and didn't have a last minute comeback 5 times in 50 games, much less 5 times in 6 games.The whole idea that the defense just happens to get tired on that *exact* drive (not one drive earlier and not one drive later) every time is a bit absurd.The fact of the matter is that late in the game Tebow reverts. He forgets all the nonsense that Fox and Elway have taught him about changing his throwing motions, progressing through his reads, etc, and he just plays football.What happened here is that Tebow "just played football" against Detroit and he had an awful game and Fox and Elway over-reacted. Awful games are to be expected as a young quarterback. Even Tom Brady had an awful game (even worse than Tebow was in the Lions game) early in his career. Matt Stafford had several. Donovan Mcnabb had damn near a dozen of them. But people were already so sure that Tebow couldn't play in the NFL that as soon as he had his it was one quick jump to "ok we've got to totally change things up obviously this isn't going to work".It was funny to watch Denver run up the middle all game against Miami to a 15-0 deficit with 5 minutes left. Then they pull the leash off and Tebow goes back to his "bad" habits and they score 15 points on their final two drives to send it to overtime. In overtime it's straight back to a bunch of HB dives up the middle for 2 yards.If it were me, I'd just let Tebow be Tebow and take the good with the bad for the first 2 years and hope that he turns into what Donovan Mcnabb was in his prime (not deadly accurate, but enough of a playmaker to make up for it). Mcnabb's big failing was his late game collapses which seems to be the exact opposite of Tebow. Would you take a guy who's Donovan Mcnabb in his prime for the first 55 minutes of a game and Ben Roethlisberger x2 for the last 5 minutes? That's what Tebow's upside is if they'd let him just play and quit worrying about what made a prototype QB 15 years ago. Instead we get this silly offense that isn't going to work long-term and only stunts Tebow's growth.'ivnabru said:I think Tebow's late game success has more to do with the Broncos running 50 times/game. The defense is tired and beat up. Defending the run takes more out of you than defending the pass. Those offensive linemen get to hit you instead of block you. The guys with the ball are usually bigger than WRs catching the ball too, plus they're coming at you.'moleculo said:
Ha. That's pretty good. Anybody just see The Big Tuna cause Hoge to stutter while talking about Tebow on Sunday NFL Countdown?
Yep. Also, it's amazing to me that absolutely no talking head thinks this offense can:(a) get more talented, nor(b) be executed betterThe only thing they focus on is that other teams will learn how to defeat this offense and that will be that.If you stick Aaron Hernandez, Percy Harvin and Louis Murphy on this team, and they would be deadly.
If McCoy's goal is to not score any points by lining Tebow up under center constantly then he's doing a hell of a job.Once again, the oh-so-tricky dive plays with no urgency whatsoever on offense in the early part of the game.
I agree.... Put him in shot gun already and spread them out... This will happen in the second half.If McCoy's goal is to not score any points by lining Tebow up under center constantly then he's doing a hell of a job.Once again, the oh-so-tricky dive plays with no urgency whatsoever on offense in the early part of the game.
Obama??
Hawaii today, Canton tomorrow.
Wait a couple more months . . .He doesn't deserve to make the Pro Bowl.
No doubt. If they win out including the Super Bowl, go undefeated in '12 and lose the '13 opener they'll be here.'proninja said:
I like how you think MT
Regardless, why was he so open?
busted coverages where the Viking CBs thought they had safety help three times and once a great Tebow scramble and the D lost him
And the touchdown he dropped?
I wonder if the safeties were sucked into run support...
no they just didn't cover him
That last catch he had Beigh Beaye just ran right by the CB and the S. Not sure what the defence was doing. But it looked liked the safety just let Baye Bey get behind him.
Tebow played terrible defense today. He gave up 3 points due to his turnover as opposed to the 0 points off of turnovers the previous 5 of 6 games.
Hoge: You'll never win a super bowl with this style of play.Tuna: What about the division?
At least his INT% is still the lowest of all starting QBs in the NFL...
I assume his pass attempts are at the bottom as well?
You should look up what the '%' symbol means.I don't think you get it.
I understand perfectly well.
