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Tim Tebow - 8.17.21 Waived By Jacksonville (5 Viewers)

'proninja said:
You can tell who made their mind up about this kid before he played a down in the NFL
:goodposting: And the comments still being made by people here and on channels like ESPN just prove that some people absolutely refuse to admit when they are wrong.
Tell me this... have you seen enough of Tebow that you'd be comfortable with annointing him the starting QB of your Broncos for the next 10 years? Just curious.
Why not. After all is about winning. It's a team game and drafting QBs early has proven to be a crap shoot at best in the NFL. Next draft the Broncos can address other positions if they chose. You think the teams who spent the 8th-10th and 12th picks on QBs in the last draft are comfortable with those picks as their starting QB for the next 10 years.
 
I'll play the skeptic.

Minnesota is a terrible team. 2-10. Can't buy a win no matter who they play.

Minnesota failed to do the one thing they needed to do to win: slow down the run. They let McGahee run for 111 at 5.6 YPC. Fail.

Tebow had a great day passing, but 15 pass attempts is a small sample size easily skewed by 1-2 big plays.

I liked that scramble on the Thomas catch-and-run though. I think this was a more meaningful and impressive win than some of Tebow's earlier flukes, but I still say that his luck will run out unless he can pass well consistently. Fortunately for him there's only one legit team left on the schedule. That one ain't gonna be pretty, but Denver can win the other three.

They'll go down early in the playoffs of course, but just the fact that they might get there likely means a whole offseason of Tebowmania. Yikes.

Somewhere John Elway is ordering a stiff drink and shaking his head.

 
Tebow does a great job managing the game, which is more than I thought he was capable of. He doesn't make mistakes, doesn't turn the ball over, and is capable of making a few plays a game, especially when he has a receiver wide open. It's the kind of style that can keep the Broncos competitive with the mid-range teams, and so far, they've made the plays at the end of the game to pull out some close wins. They could just as easily have lost all of these games, and that wouldn't have suprised anyone either. Eventually, the breaks they're getting are going to even out.

It's just not the style or efficiency that a team needs if they're going to win a championship, and Tebow is going to have to drastically improve to ever get to that point. I can only hope that if the Steelers lose out in the division to the Ravens, they get the Broncos in the first round of the playoffs.
The irony of this post is funny with you being a Steelers fan.
I'm glad somebody else noticed.
If you're comparing Tebow to how Ben performed early in his career, that's utterly ridiculous. But hey, believe what you want.Ben had a cannon of an arm and was always accurate. His completion percentages were strong and his YPA were always fantastic. Did he have to throw a lot? Nope, he didn't. But he regularly showed that he was capable of doing it, and he was never thought of as a project like Tebow is.

It's possible for someone to acknowledge the good things Tebow has done without being sold on his long term ability to be anything close to a championship quality QB.
different styles, sure. What Tebow lacks through the air, he makes up for with his feet. There is more than one way to move a football.The irony is that Ben won a SB by being efficient, not turning the ball over, and making plays when he had to. In 2004 when pitt went 15-1, Ben threw for over 200 yards four times, without ever having the running contribution Tebow has made. Ben also threw 11 picks and 18 TD's in 14 games... pretty good. Tebow, by comparison, is on pace for 22 TDs (combined) and 2 ints over a pro-rated 14 games.

The level of play that the Broncos are getting right now is better than Roethlesberger gave the Steelers in 2004. now, i'm not saying that Denver is a championship quality team...there are lots of missing pieces, especially on defense. But, this is a drastically different scenario than what we were talking about when Denver was 1-4 and thinking about Andrew Luck.
What made fans so confident in Ben circa 2004 was the talent he displayed with his arm, because in the end, a QB has to throw the ball to be successful in the NFL. I still remember the first pass he threw after Maddox got injured against the Ravens... every one of the guys I was watching with knew we had our long term answer at QB right away. We all knew he could do more because of his arm, pocket presense, and accuracy, but with a dominant defense, they never needed to air it out to win. Tebow doesn't flash that same type of passing talent, and while it's true there are multiple ways to move the ball, long term success won't come for Tebow unless he learns to be a smart and efficient pocket passer, consistently. I'm not saying that he can't do that, of course. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. I just think the winning that he's doing right now is a nice story, but it shouldn't convince anyone he'll be successful in the long run.

 
'proninja said:
You can tell who made their mind up about this kid before he played a down in the NFL
:goodposting: And the comments still being made by people here and on channels like ESPN just prove that some people absolutely refuse to admit when they are wrong.
Tell me this... have you seen enough of Tebow that you'd be comfortable with annointing him the starting QB of your Broncos for the next 10 years? Just curious.
I'm comfortable enough with Tebow to say that QB is very low in the priority list of positions that need to be improved. We need better WR's. We need better OL. We need better TE. We need youth @ RB. We need a MLB. We need improved safety play. We need a better CB opposite Champ. All these positions need to be improved or worked around before we consider upgrading the QB spot.Tebow may never get us to the promised land, but at this point i'm confident that he won't prevent us either.Beyond that, how many QB's out there would you be comfortable saying they will be the guy for the next 10 years? That's a pretty long horizon. It's a very small # of guys who are young enough and have shown enough juice to think they will have prolonged success thru 2021.
 
I'm comfortable enough with Tebow to say that QB is very low in the priority list of positions that need to be improved. We need better WR's. We need better OL. We need better TE. We need youth @ RB. We need a MLB. We need improved safety play. We need a better CB opposite Champ. All these positions need to be improved or worked around before we consider upgrading the QB spot.

Tebow may never get us to the promised land, but at this point i'm confident that he won't prevent us either.

Beyond that, how many QB's out there would you be comfortable saying they will be the guy for the next 10 years? That's a pretty long horizon. It's a very small # of guys who are young enough and have shown enough juice to think they will have prolonged success thru 2021.
What's the deal with Nate Irving? Is he no good or did Fox just want to go with a vet?
 
'proninja said:
You can tell who made their mind up about this kid before he played a down in the NFL
:goodposting: And the comments still being made by people here and on channels like ESPN just prove that some people absolutely refuse to admit when they are wrong.
Tell me this... have you seen enough of Tebow that you'd be comfortable with annointing him the starting QB of your Broncos for the next 10 years? Just curious.
:lmao: How many teams have the same QB for 10 years, let alone give them a 10-year contract in their second year? How many QB's (let's say with 3 years or less NFL experience) look to be their team's QB for the next 10 years? I'm too lazy to think of every team's situation, but i would be willing to say less than 25%. I would think Tebow has done enough to at least compete for the starting position next year, and i don't see any free agent QB coming in that would be that much better. What will be interesting is to see how Tebow does with a full off-season, and the kind of progress he can make for next year. Where Denver is in trouble is that they are stuck with him now, because if they were to try another QB if Tebow struggles a little the QB controversy will be a media circus.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
'proninja said:
You can tell who made their mind up about this kid before he played a down in the NFL
:goodposting: And the comments still being made by people here and on channels like ESPN just prove that some people absolutely refuse to admit when they are wrong.
Tell me this... have you seen enough of Tebow that you'd be comfortable with annointing him the starting QB of your Broncos for the next 10 years? Just curious.
I'm comfortable enough with Tebow to say that QB is very low in the priority list of positions that need to be improved. We need better WR's. We need better OL. We need better TE. We need youth @ RB. We need a MLB. We need improved safety play. We need a better CB opposite Champ. All these positions need to be improved or worked around before we consider upgrading the QB spot.Tebow may never get us to the promised land, but at this point i'm confident that he won't prevent us either.Beyond that, how many QB's out there would you be comfortable saying they will be the guy for the next 10 years? That's a pretty long horizon. It's a very small # of guys who are young enough and have shown enough juice to think they will have prolonged success thru 2021.
The only position on the o-line of concern for me is LG (or RT if they move Franklin to guard) but they are young with Kuper (6 years) being the most experienced. Our WRs are average with Decker, Thomas, and Royal but they are young. TEs are young so they will get better (Rosario has the most experience at five years). RB needs to be addressed. I love McGahee but he is getting up there, but thankfully RB is the easiest position to fill in the draft (IMO). The offense is just young, but they are progressing (especially the o-line).The defense still needs work. We need another DT, MLB needs to be upgraded, and we need a CB opposite Champ. I'm not sure about safety as Moore has been injured but Chris Harris has been awesome.Our kicker and punter are awesome....lol.
 
Tebow does a great job managing the game, which is more than I thought he was capable of. He doesn't make mistakes, doesn't turn the ball over, and is capable of making a few plays a game, especially when he has a receiver wide open. It's the kind of style that can keep the Broncos competitive with the mid-range teams, and so far, they've made the plays at the end of the game to pull out some close wins. They could just as easily have lost all of these games, and that wouldn't have suprised anyone either. Eventually, the breaks they're getting are going to even out.

It's just not the style or efficiency that a team needs if they're going to win a championship, and Tebow is going to have to drastically improve to ever get to that point. I can only hope that if the Steelers lose out in the division to the Ravens, they get the Broncos in the first round of the playoffs.
The irony of this post is funny with you being a Steelers fan.
I'm glad somebody else noticed.
If you're comparing Tebow to how Ben performed early in his career, that's utterly ridiculous. But hey, believe what you want.Ben had a cannon of an arm and was always accurate. His completion percentages were strong and his YPA were always fantastic. Did he have to throw a lot? Nope, he didn't. But he regularly showed that he was capable of doing it, and he was never thought of as a project like Tebow is.

It's possible for someone to acknowledge the good things Tebow has done without being sold on his long term ability to be anything close to a championship quality QB.
different styles, sure. What Tebow lacks through the air, he makes up for with his feet. There is more than one way to move a football.The irony is that Ben won a SB by being efficient, not turning the ball over, and making plays when he had to. In 2004 when pitt went 15-1, Ben threw for over 200 yards four times, without ever having the running contribution Tebow has made. Ben also threw 11 picks and 18 TD's in 14 games... pretty good. Tebow, by comparison, is on pace for 22 TDs (combined) and 2 ints over a pro-rated 14 games.

The level of play that the Broncos are getting right now is better than Roethlesberger gave the Steelers in 2004. now, i'm not saying that Denver is a championship quality team...there are lots of missing pieces, especially on defense. But, this is a drastically different scenario than what we were talking about when Denver was 1-4 and thinking about Andrew Luck.
What made fans so confident in Ben circa 2004 was the talent he displayed with his arm, because in the end, a QB has to throw the ball to be successful in the NFL. I still remember the first pass he threw after Maddox got injured against the Ravens... every one of the guys I was watching with knew we had our long term answer at QB right away. We all knew he could do more because of his arm, pocket presense, and accuracy, but with a dominant defense, they never needed to air it out to win. Tebow doesn't flash that same type of passing talent, and while it's true there are multiple ways to move the ball, long term success won't come for Tebow unless he learns to be a smart and efficient pocket passer, consistently. I'm not saying that he can't do that, of course. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. I just think the winning that he's doing right now is a nice story, but it shouldn't convince anyone he'll be successful in the long run.
I have seen enough flashes to know that Tebow won't curl up under pressure and loose the game. Right now, that's enough. The rest of it can come, we've seen slow and steady progress this season all ready.I grew up watching Elway and the Broncos in the mid '80's. I knew that as long as the Broncos were down by less than a TD with 2 min left in the game, we had an excellent chance of winning the game. Every time...Elway had a certain magic to him in the 4th qtr. Since 1998, every single QB the Broncos trotted in could find ways to loose when the game was on the line. Brian Griese. Jake Plummer. jay cutler. Kyle Orton. A string of disapointments, all of them. They all had great starts to their careers in Denver, but none had that ability to win the big game. Now that Tebow is in town, I'm starting to get that feeling again...as long as the game is within a TD and 2:00 left, Tebow will find a way.

 
I'm comfortable enough with Tebow to say that QB is very low in the priority list of positions that need to be improved. We need better WR's. We need better OL. We need better TE. We need youth @ RB. We need a MLB. We need improved safety play. We need a better CB opposite Champ. All these positions need to be improved or worked around before we consider upgrading the QB spot.

Tebow may never get us to the promised land, but at this point i'm confident that he won't prevent us either.

Beyond that, how many QB's out there would you be comfortable saying they will be the guy for the next 10 years? That's a pretty long horizon. It's a very small # of guys who are young enough and have shown enough juice to think they will have prolonged success thru 2021.
What's the deal with Nate Irving? Is he no good or did Fox just want to go with a vet?
He didn't impress in preseason and Mays has played solid enough not to warrant being replaced.
 
'proninja said:
You can tell who made their mind up about this kid before he played a down in the NFL
:goodposting: And the comments still being made by people here and on channels like ESPN just prove that some people absolutely refuse to admit when they are wrong.
Tell me this... have you seen enough of Tebow that you'd be comfortable with annointing him the starting QB of your Broncos for the next 10 years? Just curious.
I'm comfortable enough with Tebow to say that QB is very low in the priority list of positions that need to be improved. We need better WR's. We need better OL. We need better TE. We need youth @ RB. We need a MLB. We need improved safety play. We need a better CB opposite Champ. All these positions need to be improved or worked around before we consider upgrading the QB spot.Tebow may never get us to the promised land, but at this point i'm confident that he won't prevent us either.Beyond that, how many QB's out there would you be comfortable saying they will be the guy for the next 10 years? That's a pretty long horizon. It's a very small # of guys who are young enough and have shown enough juice to think they will have prolonged success thru 2021.
That's a fair answer, and understandable given the rest of the roster.Funny... the QB he reminds me of most is a Steelers QB, but it's not Roethlisberger.It's actually Kordell Stewart, who enjoyed a nice run until he faced teams that could expose his lack of passing ability and still stop the run.
 
'proninja said:
You can tell who made their mind up about this kid before he played a down in the NFL
:goodposting: And the comments still being made by people here and on channels like ESPN just prove that some people absolutely refuse to admit when they are wrong.
Tell me this... have you seen enough of Tebow that you'd be comfortable with annointing him the starting QB of your Broncos for the next 10 years? Just curious.
I'm comfortable enough with Tebow to say that QB is very low in the priority list of positions that need to be improved. We need better WR's. We need better OL. We need better TE. We need youth @ RB. We need a MLB. We need improved safety play. We need a better CB opposite Champ. All these positions need to be improved or worked around before we consider upgrading the QB spot.Tebow may never get us to the promised land, but at this point i'm confident that he won't prevent us either.Beyond that, how many QB's out there would you be comfortable saying they will be the guy for the next 10 years? That's a pretty long horizon. It's a very small # of guys who are young enough and have shown enough juice to think they will have prolonged success thru 2021.
That's a fair answer, and understandable given the rest of the roster.Funny... the QB he reminds me of most is a Steelers QB, but it's not Roethlisberger.It's actually Kordell Stewart, who enjoyed a nice run until he faced teams that could expose his lack of passing ability and still stop the run.
And I should add that I don't compare Tebow to Kordell as an insult, because Kordell was exciting as hell early in his career and woon a lot of games. The low completion percentage, the playmaking ability with his legs, the TD production, relying on the defense to keep things close - it's how Kordell won games early on. He's also the reason the Steelers teams couldn't get past the Broncos led by Elway or the Patriots led by Brady. In the big games, that much of disparity in QB talent is normally too much to overcome.
 
'proninja said:
You can tell who made their mind up about this kid before he played a down in the NFL
:goodposting: And the comments still being made by people here and on channels like ESPN just prove that some people absolutely refuse to admit when they are wrong.
Tell me this... have you seen enough of Tebow that you'd be comfortable with annointing him the starting QB of your Broncos for the next 10 years? Just curious.
I'm comfortable enough with Tebow to say that QB is very low in the priority list of positions that need to be improved. We need better WR's. We need better OL. We need better TE. We need youth @ RB. We need a MLB. We need improved safety play. We need a better CB opposite Champ. All these positions need to be improved or worked around before we consider upgrading the QB spot.Tebow may never get us to the promised land, but at this point i'm confident that he won't prevent us either.Beyond that, how many QB's out there would you be comfortable saying they will be the guy for the next 10 years? That's a pretty long horizon. It's a very small # of guys who are young enough and have shown enough juice to think they will have prolonged success thru 2021.
That's a fair answer, and understandable given the rest of the roster.Funny... the QB he reminds me of most is a Steelers QB, but it's not Roethlisberger.It's actually Kordell Stewart, who enjoyed a nice run until he faced teams that could expose his lack of passing ability and still stop the run.
Kordell Stewart did not take care of the ball. 77 tds to 84 ints through his career to go along with 20 lost fumbles.
 
'proninja said:
You can tell who made their mind up about this kid before he played a down in the NFL
:goodposting: And the comments still being made by people here and on channels like ESPN just prove that some people absolutely refuse to admit when they are wrong.
Tell me this... have you seen enough of Tebow that you'd be comfortable with annointing him the starting QB of your Broncos for the next 10 years? Just curious.
I'm comfortable enough with Tebow to say that QB is very low in the priority list of positions that need to be improved. We need better WR's. We need better OL. We need better TE. We need youth @ RB. We need a MLB. We need improved safety play. We need a better CB opposite Champ. All these positions need to be improved or worked around before we consider upgrading the QB spot.Tebow may never get us to the promised land, but at this point i'm confident that he won't prevent us either.Beyond that, how many QB's out there would you be comfortable saying they will be the guy for the next 10 years? That's a pretty long horizon. It's a very small # of guys who are young enough and have shown enough juice to think they will have prolonged success thru 2021.
That's a fair answer, and understandable given the rest of the roster.Funny... the QB he reminds me of most is a Steelers QB, but it's not Roethlisberger.It's actually Kordell Stewart, who enjoyed a nice run until he faced teams that could expose his lack of passing ability and still stop the run.
Kordell Stewart did not take care of the ball. 77 tds to 84 ints through his career to go along with 20 lost fumbles.
He also threw the ball more than Tebow has, but that's fine... I'll say he's like Kordell with much better ball security.Better? :P
 
'proninja said:
You can tell who made their mind up about this kid before he played a down in the NFL
:goodposting: And the comments still being made by people here and on channels like ESPN just prove that some people absolutely refuse to admit when they are wrong.
Tell me this... have you seen enough of Tebow that you'd be comfortable with annointing him the starting QB of your Broncos for the next 10 years? Just curious.
I'm comfortable enough with Tebow to say that QB is very low in the priority list of positions that need to be improved. We need better WR's. We need better OL. We need better TE. We need youth @ RB. We need a MLB. We need improved safety play. We need a better CB opposite Champ. All these positions need to be improved or worked around before we consider upgrading the QB spot.Tebow may never get us to the promised land, but at this point i'm confident that he won't prevent us either.Beyond that, how many QB's out there would you be comfortable saying they will be the guy for the next 10 years? That's a pretty long horizon. It's a very small # of guys who are young enough and have shown enough juice to think they will have prolonged success thru 2021.
That's a fair answer, and understandable given the rest of the roster.Funny... the QB he reminds me of most is a Steelers QB, but it's not Roethlisberger.It's actually Kordell Stewart, who enjoyed a nice run until he faced teams that could expose his lack of passing ability and still stop the run.
Kordell Stewart did not take care of the ball. 77 tds to 84 ints through his career to go along with 20 lost fumbles.
He also threw the ball more than Tebow has, but that's fine... I'll say he's like Kordell with much better ball security.Better? :P
Haha Much.The premise of the argument was don't turn over the ball and be able to make plays when you have to.
 
'proninja said:
You can tell who made their mind up about this kid before he played a down in the NFL
:goodposting: And the comments still being made by people here and on channels like ESPN just prove that some people absolutely refuse to admit when they are wrong.
Tell me this... have you seen enough of Tebow that you'd be comfortable with annointing him the starting QB of your Broncos for the next 10 years? Just curious.
I'm comfortable enough with Tebow to say that QB is very low in the priority list of positions that need to be improved. We need better WR's. We need better OL. We need better TE. We need youth @ RB. We need a MLB. We need improved safety play. We need a better CB opposite Champ. All these positions need to be improved or worked around before we consider upgrading the QB spot.Tebow may never get us to the promised land, but at this point i'm confident that he won't prevent us either.Beyond that, how many QB's out there would you be comfortable saying they will be the guy for the next 10 years? That's a pretty long horizon. It's a very small # of guys who are young enough and have shown enough juice to think they will have prolonged success thru 2021.
That's a fair answer, and understandable given the rest of the roster.Funny... the QB he reminds me of most is a Steelers QB, but it's not Roethlisberger.It's actually Kordell Stewart, who enjoyed a nice run until he faced teams that could expose his lack of passing ability and still stop the run.
Kordell Stewart did not take care of the ball. 77 tds to 84 ints through his career to go along with 20 lost fumbles.
He also threw the ball more than Tebow has, but that's fine... I'll say he's like Kordell with much better ball security.Better? :P
Haha Much.The premise of the argument was don't turn over the ball and be able to make plays when you have to.
Who is Tim Tebow????
 
I've got no issue eating crow if he turns out to be a good qb. I like the kid and think the NFL could use a lot more folks like him. But I'm still a skeptic. He's absolutely shown he has potential to be very good. He's also shown potential to be very bad.

He works hard, says the right things, is a great teammate, and is exciting to watch. Even if this bandwagon crashes and burns it should be an entertaining one. I'll root for him but will be extremely surprised if he becomes anything good. If he's still winning games and/or putting up good passing stats by the end of next year I'll serve myself a big plate of crow.

Until that time there's not much to say (though we'll say it anyway). Plenty of lousy qb's and offenses have looked great for a few weeks before reality caught up. And plenty of very good qb's have looked awful to begin their career.

The one thing everyone should agree on is he's flashed great potential. It's just a matter of whether you think he'll reach that potential on a consistent basis.

 
'proninja said:
You can tell who made their mind up about this kid before he played a down in the NFL
:goodposting: And the comments still being made by people here and on channels like ESPN just prove that some people absolutely refuse to admit when they are wrong.
Tell me this... have you seen enough of Tebow that you'd be comfortable with annointing him the starting QB of your Broncos for the next 10 years? Just curious.
I'm comfortable enough with Tebow to say that QB is very low in the priority list of positions that need to be improved. We need better WR's. We need better OL. We need better TE. We need youth @ RB. We need a MLB. We need improved safety play. We need a better CB opposite Champ. All these positions need to be improved or worked around before we consider upgrading the QB spot.Tebow may never get us to the promised land, but at this point i'm confident that he won't prevent us either.Beyond that, how many QB's out there would you be comfortable saying they will be the guy for the next 10 years? That's a pretty long horizon. It's a very small # of guys who are young enough and have shown enough juice to think they will have prolonged success thru 2021.
That's a fair answer, and understandable given the rest of the roster.Funny... the QB he reminds me of most is a Steelers QB, but it's not Roethlisberger.It's actually Kordell Stewart, who enjoyed a nice run until he faced teams that could expose his lack of passing ability and still stop the run.
Kordell Stewart did not take care of the ball. 77 tds to 84 ints through his career to go along with 20 lost fumbles.
He also threw the ball more than Tebow has, but that's fine... I'll say he's like Kordell with much better ball security.Better? :P
Tim Tebow and Kordell Stewart are nothing alike. Nothing.Steeler fans are so unbearable. They are like the LHUCKS of fans as they think everything is about them. This isn't about the Steelers, Larry.
 
Why exactly will he implode against CHI? The game is at home in Denver. And doesn't CHI have the 30th ranked pass D for fantasy? Why do people think Chicago's defense is so great?
if they predict failure every week they are bound to be right once, then they will forget all the times they predicted failure and were wrong
 
'proninja said:
You can tell who made their mind up about this kid before he played a down in the NFL
:goodposting: And the comments still being made by people here and on channels like ESPN just prove that some people absolutely refuse to admit when they are wrong.
Tell me this... have you seen enough of Tebow that you'd be comfortable with annointing him the starting QB of your Broncos for the next 10 years? Just curious.
I'm comfortable enough with Tebow to say that QB is very low in the priority list of positions that need to be improved. We need better WR's. We need better OL. We need better TE. We need youth @ RB. We need a MLB. We need improved safety play. We need a better CB opposite Champ. All these positions need to be improved or worked around before we consider upgrading the QB spot.Tebow may never get us to the promised land, but at this point i'm confident that he won't prevent us either.Beyond that, how many QB's out there would you be comfortable saying they will be the guy for the next 10 years? That's a pretty long horizon. It's a very small # of guys who are young enough and have shown enough juice to think they will have prolonged success thru 2021.
That's a fair answer, and understandable given the rest of the roster.Funny... the QB he reminds me of most is a Steelers QB, but it's not Roethlisberger.It's actually Kordell Stewart, who enjoyed a nice run until he faced teams that could expose his lack of passing ability and still stop the run.
Kordell Stewart did not take care of the ball. 77 tds to 84 ints through his career to go along with 20 lost fumbles.
He also threw the ball more than Tebow has, but that's fine... I'll say he's like Kordell with much better ball security.Better? :P
Tim Tebow and Kordell Stewart are nothing alike. Nothing.Steeler fans are so unbearable. They are like the LHUCKS of fans as they think everything is about them. This isn't about the Steelers, Larry.
It's not about the Steelers. I can't think of a better comparison for what Tebow brings to the table than Kordell, that's all.Actually, they are similar. Their skills and playing styles are very similar, but Kordell was trusted with more passing responsibilites when he was young, which led to a ton of turnovers. He turned the ball over, but in general they do things similarly. And Kordell was a superstar for a year and won plenty of games with the help of a great defense and by making enough plays to win. It just killed the Steelers when they faced a team with a far better QB in the playoffs.
 
'proninja said:
You can tell who made their mind up about this kid before he played a down in the NFL
:goodposting: And the comments still being made by people here and on channels like ESPN just prove that some people absolutely refuse to admit when they are wrong.
Tell me this... have you seen enough of Tebow that you'd be comfortable with annointing him the starting QB of your Broncos for the next 10 years? Just curious.
I'm comfortable enough with Tebow to say that QB is very low in the priority list of positions that need to be improved. We need better WR's. We need better OL. We need better TE. We need youth @ RB. We need a MLB. We need improved safety play. We need a better CB opposite Champ. All these positions need to be improved or worked around before we consider upgrading the QB spot.Tebow may never get us to the promised land, but at this point i'm confident that he won't prevent us either.Beyond that, how many QB's out there would you be comfortable saying they will be the guy for the next 10 years? That's a pretty long horizon. It's a very small # of guys who are young enough and have shown enough juice to think they will have prolonged success thru 2021.
That's a fair answer, and understandable given the rest of the roster.Funny... the QB he reminds me of most is a Steelers QB, but it's not Roethlisberger.It's actually Kordell Stewart, who enjoyed a nice run until he faced teams that could expose his lack of passing ability and still stop the run.
Kordell Stewart did not take care of the ball. 77 tds to 84 ints through his career to go along with 20 lost fumbles.
He also threw the ball more than Tebow has, but that's fine... I'll say he's like Kordell with much better ball security.Better? :P
Tim Tebow and Kordell Stewart are nothing alike. Nothing.Steeler fans are so unbearable. They are like the LHUCKS of fans as they think everything is about them. This isn't about the Steelers, Larry.
It's not about the Steelers. I can't think of a better comparison for what Tebow brings to the table than Kordell, that's all.Actually, they are similar. Their skills and playing styles are very similar, but Kordell was trusted with more passing responsibilites when he was young, which led to a ton of turnovers. He turned the ball over, but in general they do things similarly. And Kordell was a superstar for a year and won plenty of games with the help of a great defense and by making enough plays to win. It just killed the Steelers when they faced a team with a far better QB in the playoffs.
soothey were alike in that Tebow does not turn the ball over and kordell does, and kordell was a swift run around you guy while tebow is a run through you guywell they do both have legs, that is a place they are similar
 
S4L, how many current QBs have been with their current team for 10+ years? Brady. Manning. Anyone else? So, asking if we think Tebow will be the Broncos QB for 10 years seems a bit silly.

Also, Tebow and Kordell are not similar. The fact that they are/were both running quarterbacks with passing deficiencies is where the similarities end. And those are very general similarities. If you watch both guys, they are very different players.

 
I've got no issue eating crow if he turns out to be a good qb. I like the kid and think the NFL could use a lot more folks like him. But I'm still a skeptic. He's absolutely shown he has potential to be very good. He's also shown potential to be very bad. He works hard, says the right things, is a great teammate, and is exciting to watch. Even if this bandwagon crashes and burns it should be an entertaining one. I'll root for him but will be extremely surprised if he becomes anything good. If he's still winning games and/or putting up good passing stats by the end of next year I'll serve myself a big plate of crow.Until that time there's not much to say (though we'll say it anyway). Plenty of lousy qb's and offenses have looked great for a few weeks before reality caught up. And plenty of very good qb's have looked awful to begin their career. The one thing everyone should agree on is he's flashed great potential. It's just a matter of whether you think he'll reach that potential on a consistent basis.
Being reasonable is not welcome in this thread. Please get out.
 
S4L, how many current QBs have been with their current team for 10+ years? Brady. Manning. Anyone else? So, asking if we think Tebow will be the Broncos QB for 10 years seems a bit silly. Also, Tebow and Kordell are not similar. The fact that they are/were both running quarterbacks with passing deficiencies is where the similarities end. And those are very general similarities. If you watch both guys, they are very different players.
We've gone from "He'll never have success in the NFL!" to "He's not a one-team-career franchise QB Hall of Fame type!"
 
It's not about the Steelers. I can't think of a better comparison for what Tebow brings to the table than Kordell, that's all.

Actually, they are similar. Their skills and playing styles are very similar, but Kordell was trusted with more passing responsibilites when he was young, which led to a ton of turnovers. He turned the ball over, but in general they do things similarly. And Kordell was a superstar for a year and won plenty of games with the help of a great defense and by making enough plays to win. It just killed the Steelers when they faced a team with a far better QB in the playoffs.
I'm sorry, but the most applicable Steelers' example (and maybe the most applicable example overall) is Big Ben, not Kordell.Obviously Big Ben is (and was) a much better pure passer, but the similarities beyond that are very high. The only one to ever do the 55-minutes-of-offensive-ineptitude-followed-by-5-minutes-of-brilliance routine to anywhere near the levels that the Broncos are doing this year are the Big Ben led Steeler teams of the last seven years (minus 2006). Heck, that's always been the knock on Big Ben prior to this year. Sure he's great in the clutch, but he only has a chance in the clutch because his defense bails the offense out for the first 55 minutes. That's pretty much the same knock that there's been on Tebow during this winning streak.

Additionally, Tebow and young Big Ben both struggled at reading the field, but make up for it with their ability to scramble. Both take drive killing sacks 3 times a game and extend drives with inexplicable scrambles 3 times a game.

Big Ben was able to extend his late game rallies into good playoff performance as a whole (for the most part, though he didn't play particularly well in any of the Super Bowls outside of the last drive of the Arizona game). That much has yet to be seen with Tebow, whether his "show up big when it counts" gene will extend from the end of games in the regular season to the playoffs like it did with Big Ben.

Personally, I don't see any reason he can't extend those end-game performances to whole game performances right now (he did it last year) if Fox would just take the reigns off (and forgets trying to fidget with the throwing motion) and let him take his lumps (like the Lions game) as he grows, like most young QBs are allowed to do.

If anything gets exposed in the playoffs I think it will be the disparity between the Denver defense and the Pittsburgh defense of the last 7 years, not the QB play. The Steelers have won quite a few playoff games (and a super bowl) during that run where they had truly awful QB play because their defense was capable of shutting down everyone, including those Brady/Peyton teams that would likely shred Denver.

 
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'proninja said:
You can tell who made their mind up about this kid before he played a down in the NFL
:goodposting: And the comments still being made by people here and on channels like ESPN just prove that some people absolutely refuse to admit when they are wrong.
Tell me this... have you seen enough of Tebow that you'd be comfortable with annointing him the starting QB of your Broncos for the next 10 years? Just curious.
I'm comfortable enough with Tebow to say that QB is very low in the priority list of positions that need to be improved. We need better WR's. We need better OL. We need better TE. We need youth @ RB. We need a MLB. We need improved safety play. We need a better CB opposite Champ. All these positions need to be improved or worked around before we consider upgrading the QB spot.Tebow may never get us to the promised land, but at this point i'm confident that he won't prevent us either.Beyond that, how many QB's out there would you be comfortable saying they will be the guy for the next 10 years? That's a pretty long horizon. It's a very small # of guys who are young enough and have shown enough juice to think they will have prolonged success thru 2021.
That's a fair answer, and understandable given the rest of the roster.Funny... the QB he reminds me of most is a Steelers QB, but it's not Roethlisberger.It's actually Kordell Stewart, who enjoyed a nice run until he faced teams that could expose his lack of passing ability and still stop the run.
Kordell Stewart did not take care of the ball. 77 tds to 84 ints through his career to go along with 20 lost fumbles.
He also threw the ball more than Tebow has, but that's fine... I'll say he's like Kordell with much better ball security.Better? :P
Tim Tebow and Kordell Stewart are nothing alike. Nothing.Steeler fans are so unbearable. They are like the LHUCKS of fans as they think everything is about them. This isn't about the Steelers, Larry.
It's not about the Steelers. I can't think of a better comparison for what Tebow brings to the table than Kordell, that's all.Actually, they are similar. Their skills and playing styles are very similar, but Kordell was trusted with more passing responsibilites when he was young, which led to a ton of turnovers. He turned the ball over, but in general they do things similarly. And Kordell was a superstar for a year and won plenty of games with the help of a great defense and by making enough plays to win. It just killed the Steelers when they faced a team with a far better QB in the playoffs.
In 1997, Kordells first year as starting QB, he went 11-5, winning a playoff game vs defending AFC champs Drew Bledsoe & the Patriots, before losing to eventual SB champs Broncos. Of course, it helped that that yeam had a great defense and a young Bettis. Kordell had 32 TD's and 17 ints, to go along with 476 rushing yards and 3020 passing yards.If you take Tebows stats from his starts and extrapolate over 16 games, he would have 2229 passing yards, 985 rushing yards, 25 total TDs, and 2 ints.Comparing the two, Tebow has roughly double the rushing production, a good bit less passing production (but overall, total yards differ by about 18 per game). Quite a bit fewer TDs but drastically fewer ints.Purely looking at the stats, they seem fairly comparable. And, Kordell has shown that this level of play is good enough to get to, and win, in the playoffs.Unfortunately, Kordell never really got a whole lot better than that. In 2001, he led a 13-3 team, had 3646 total yards, 19 TDs, and 11 ints, again losing in the conf championship vs eventual SB champs. This was probably Kordells peak.The question is: is Tebow near his peak? If you think what he is doing right now is as good as it's going to get, I can understand the pessimism. However, I don't really think thats appropriate. Kordell had the benefit of stability - same head coach his whole career. Tebow is playing for his third head coach allready. Kordell had the benefit of off-seasons to work out with coaches and teammates, Tebow has not.I don't believe we've seen anything close to what this kid is capable of doing just yet.
 
Remember how a lot of people jumped on the Matt Cassel bandwagon last year, only to jump OFF the bandwagon this year (when the Chiefs had to play a tougher schedule)??

Average winning % of the teams that Kansas City beat last year: 38.1%

Average winning % of the teams of the teams that Tim Tebow beat this year: 40.8%

Of course, Tebow can improve those numbers by beating the Patriots or notching a playoff victory...

 
Remember how a lot of people jumped on the Matt Cassel bandwagon last year, only to jump OFF the bandwagon this year (when the Chiefs had to play a tougher schedule)??

Average winning % of the teams that Kansas City beat last year: 38.1%

Average winning % of the teams of the teams that Tim Tebow beat this year: 40.8%

Of course, Tebow can improve those numbers by beating the Patriots or notching a playoff victory...
Average winning % of the teams that Tom Brady beat this year: 40.4%
 
Remember how a lot of people jumped on the Matt Cassel bandwagon last year, only to jump OFF the bandwagon this year (when the Chiefs had to play a tougher schedule)??

Average winning % of the teams that Kansas City beat last year: 38.1%

Average winning % of the teams of the teams that Tim Tebow beat this year: 40.8%

Of course, Tebow can improve those numbers by beating the Patriots or notching a playoff victory...
Average winning % of the teams that Tom Brady beat this year: 40.4%
Actually it's 42.1%, but don't let the facts stop you.
 
Remember how a lot of people jumped on the Matt Cassel bandwagon last year, only to jump OFF the bandwagon this year (when the Chiefs had to play a tougher schedule)??

Average winning % of the teams that Kansas City beat last year: 38.1%

Average winning % of the teams of the teams that Tim Tebow beat this year: 40.8%

Of course, Tebow can improve those numbers by beating the Patriots or notching a playoff victory...
Average winning % of the teams that Tom Brady beat this year: 40.4%
Actually it's 42.1%, but don't let the facts stop you.
So let's agree that Brady is 1.3% better than Tebow.
 
Remember how a lot of people jumped on the Matt Cassel bandwagon last year, only to jump OFF the bandwagon this year (when the Chiefs had to play a tougher schedule)??

Average winning % of the teams that Kansas City beat last year: 38.1%

Average winning % of the teams of the teams that Tim Tebow beat this year: 40.8%

Of course, Tebow can improve those numbers by beating the Patriots or notching a playoff victory...
Average winning % of the teams that Tom Brady beat this year: 40.4%
Actually it's 42.1%, but don't let the facts stop you.
I didn't count the Jets record twice. I think the point stands either way.
 
Remember how a lot of people jumped on the Matt Cassel bandwagon last year, only to jump OFF the bandwagon this year (when the Chiefs had to play a tougher schedule)??

Average winning % of the teams that Kansas City beat last year: 38.1%

Average winning % of the teams of the teams that Tim Tebow beat this year: 40.8%

Of course, Tebow can improve those numbers by beating the Patriots or notching a playoff victory...
Average winning % of the teams that Tom Brady beat this year: 40.4%
Actually it's 42.1%, but don't let the facts stop you.
I didn't count the Jets record twice. I think the point stands either way.
The Broncos wide receivers could not have been more wide open than they were against the flailing Vikings. You have to give Tebow credit for gaining the respect of the opposing defenses but the Vikings pooped the bed when Tebow scrambled. Their defensive backfield ran to the line of scrimmage when Tebow looked like he was going to run, abandoning all semblence of maintaining their assignments. If Tebow did not make those throws he woould be open to severe criticism. The guy makes plays, no doubt, but it's hard to weigh his unconventional talent when the opposing defenses can't cover or tackle. And there was little of each from the Vikings. Tebow had a nice throw on an incompletion near the end of regulation; it was his first and only read on a timing play but the ball was well placed. That was the only contested throw I saw; admittedly, I only watched the second half and I was watching the game from a stationary bike at the gym. The Vikings had to move the ball against a defense that was contesting them on the field. The Broncos were scoring in two plays. That is not a well coached or well played defense. Some of that credit goes to Tebow and McGhee playing well, however, that was a very bad Vikings defensive team yesterday.If the Patriots went on to lose against the Colts yesterday, givng up fourth quarter points at an alarming rate, would you say that Orlovsky is a great QB? I would hope not.

 
'proninja said:
You can tell who made their mind up about this kid before he played a down in the NFL
:goodposting: And the comments still being made by people here and on channels like ESPN just prove that some people absolutely refuse to admit when they are wrong.
Tell me this... have you seen enough of Tebow that you'd be comfortable with annointing him the starting QB of your Broncos for the next 10 years? Just curious.
I'm comfortable enough with Tebow to say that QB is very low in the priority list of positions that need to be improved. We need better WR's. We need better OL. We need better TE. We need youth @ RB. We need a MLB. We need improved safety play. We need a better CB opposite Champ. All these positions need to be improved or worked around before we consider upgrading the QB spot.Tebow may never get us to the promised land, but at this point i'm confident that he won't prevent us either.Beyond that, how many QB's out there would you be comfortable saying they will be the guy for the next 10 years? That's a pretty long horizon. It's a very small # of guys who are young enough and have shown enough juice to think they will have prolonged success thru 2021.
That's a fair answer, and understandable given the rest of the roster.Funny... the QB he reminds me of most is a Steelers QB, but it's not Roethlisberger.It's actually Kordell Stewart, who enjoyed a nice run until he faced teams that could expose his lack of passing ability and still stop the run.
Kordell Stewart did not take care of the ball. 77 tds to 84 ints through his career to go along with 20 lost fumbles.
He also threw the ball more than Tebow has, but that's fine... I'll say he's like Kordell with much better ball security.Better? :P
Tim Tebow and Kordell Stewart are nothing alike. Nothing.Steeler fans are so unbearable. They are like the LHUCKS of fans as they think everything is about them. This isn't about the Steelers, Larry.
It's not about the Steelers. I can't think of a better comparison for what Tebow brings to the table than Kordell, that's all.Actually, they are similar. Their skills and playing styles are very similar, but Kordell was trusted with more passing responsibilites when he was young, which led to a ton of turnovers. He turned the ball over, but in general they do things similarly. And Kordell was a superstar for a year and won plenty of games with the help of a great defense and by making enough plays to win. It just killed the Steelers when they faced a team with a far better QB in the playoffs.
In 1997, Kordells first year as starting QB, he went 11-5, winning a playoff game vs defending AFC champs Drew Bledsoe & the Patriots, before losing to eventual SB champs Broncos. Of course, it helped that that yeam had a great defense and a young Bettis. Kordell had 32 TD's and 17 ints, to go along with 476 rushing yards and 3020 passing yards.If you take Tebows stats from his starts and extrapolate over 16 games, he would have 2229 passing yards, 985 rushing yards, 25 total TDs, and 2 ints.Comparing the two, Tebow has roughly double the rushing production, a good bit less passing production (but overall, total yards differ by about 18 per game). Quite a bit fewer TDs but drastically fewer ints.Purely looking at the stats, they seem fairly comparable. And, Kordell has shown that this level of play is good enough to get to, and win, in the playoffs.Unfortunately, Kordell never really got a whole lot better than that. In 2001, he led a 13-3 team, had 3646 total yards, 19 TDs, and 11 ints, again losing in the conf championship vs eventual SB champs. This was probably Kordells peak.The question is: is Tebow near his peak? If you think what he is doing right now is as good as it's going to get, I can understand the pessimism. However, I don't really think thats appropriate. Kordell had the benefit of stability - same head coach his whole career. Tebow is playing for his third head coach allready. Kordell had the benefit of off-seasons to work out with coaches and teammates, Tebow has not.I don't believe we've seen anything close to what this kid is capable of doing just yet.
Agreed. Kordell didn't get any farther because his passing skills never developed.Will Tebow's? I guess time will tell. My only point is that at this point, Tebow's strengths and weaknesses as a QB remind me a lot of what Kordell was early on. People forget how dynamic he was for the first couple years he spent as a QB after initially contributing as a WR.
 
Remember how a lot of people jumped on the Matt Cassel bandwagon last year, only to jump OFF the bandwagon this year (when the Chiefs had to play a tougher schedule)??

Average winning % of the teams that Kansas City beat last year: 38.1%

Average winning % of the teams of the teams that Tim Tebow beat this year: 40.8%

Of course, Tebow can improve those numbers by beating the Patriots or notching a playoff victory...
Average winning % of the teams that Tom Brady beat this year: 40.4%
Actually it's 42.1%, but don't let the facts stop you.
I didn't count the Jets record twice. I think the point stands either way.
The Broncos wide receivers could not have been more wide open than they were against the flailing Vikings. You have to give Tebow credit for gaining the respect of the opposing defenses but the Vikings pooped the bed when Tebow scrambled. Their defensive backfield ran to the line of scrimmage when Tebow looked like he was going to run, abandoning all semblence of maintaining their assignments. If Tebow did not make those throws he woould be open to severe criticism. The guy makes plays, no doubt, but it's hard to weigh his unconventional talent when the opposing defenses can't cover or tackle. And there was little of each from the Vikings. Tebow had a nice throw on an incompletion near the end of regulation; it was his first and only read on a timing play but the ball was well placed. That was the only contested throw I saw; admittedly, I only watched the second half and I was watching the game from a stationary bike at the gym. The Vikings had to move the ball against a defense that was contesting them on the field. The Broncos were scoring in two plays. That is not a well coached or well played defense. Some of that credit goes to Tebow and McGhee playing well, however, that was a very bad Vikings defensive team yesterday. If the Patriots went on to lose against the Colts yesterday, givng up fourth quarter points at an alarming rate, would you say that Orlovsky is a great QB? I would hope not.
I didn't say Tebow was a great QB. In fact I don't think anyone in here is saying he is a great QB. Many are saying he has the potential to be great, which is a different thing. All I was doing is pointing out how nonsensical it is to lump two QBs together based on nothing other than a data point about their opponents' winning percentage. If you want to talk about how the Vikings secondary is an unadulterated disaster, then you'll get pretty much unanimous agreement. But good teams (and players) exploit their opponents weaknesses and beat inferior competition. Even when there are perfectly reasonable qualifiers to put around Tebow's and the Broncos' success, at 6-1 the laundry list of "yeah, buts" is getting comically long.

 
It's not about the Steelers. I can't think of a better comparison for what Tebow brings to the table than Kordell, that's all.

Actually, they are similar. Their skills and playing styles are very similar, but Kordell was trusted with more passing responsibilites when he was young, which led to a ton of turnovers. He turned the ball over, but in general they do things similarly. And Kordell was a superstar for a year and won plenty of games with the help of a great defense and by making enough plays to win. It just killed the Steelers when they faced a team with a far better QB in the playoffs.
I'm sorry, but the most applicable Steelers' example (and maybe the most applicable example overall) is Big Ben, not Kordell.Obviously Big Ben is (and was) a much better pure passer, but the similarities beyond that are very high. The only one to ever do the 55-minutes-of-offensive-ineptitude-followed-by-5-minutes-of-brilliance routine to anywhere near the levels that the Broncos are doing this year are the Big Ben led Steeler teams of the last seven years (minus 2006). Heck, that's always been the knock on Big Ben prior to this year. Sure he's great in the clutch, but he only has a chance in the clutch because his defense bails the offense out for the first 55 minutes. That's pretty much the same knock that there's been on Tebow during this winning streak.

Additionally, Tebow and young Big Ben both struggled at reading the field, but make up for it with their ability to scramble. Both take drive killing sacks 3 times a game and extend drives with inexplicable scrambles 3 times a game.

Big Ben was able to extend his late game rallies into good playoff performance as a whole (for the most part, though he didn't play particularly well in any of the Super Bowls outside of the last drive of the Arizona game). That much has yet to be seen with Tebow, whether his "show up big when it counts" gene will extend from the end of games in the regular season to the playoffs like it did with Big Ben.

Personally, I don't see any reason he can't extend those end-game performances to whole game performances right now (he did it last year) if Fox would just take the reigns off (and forgets trying to fidget with the throwing motion) and let him take his lumps (like the Lions game) as he grows, like most young QBs are allowed to do.

If anything gets exposed in the playoffs I think it will be the disparity between the Denver defense and the Pittsburgh defense of the last 7 years, not the QB play. The Steelers have won quite a few playoff games (and a super bowl) during that run where they had truly awful QB play because their defense was capable of shutting down everyone, including those Brady/Peyton teams that would likely shred Denver.
Couldn't disagree more. There are very few similarities at all between Ben's game early on and Tebow's now aside from the fact that they both can run and extend plays, but that can be said for a lot of QBs. Ben was always very good as a passer, as all of his efficiency stats would show you. He was accurate and good, and the reason why he didn't throw more was because he didn't have to.

Tebow's not passing a lot because he's not capable, which his coach has openly admitted.

To say they're very similar aside from the fact that Ben was a much better passer is kinda ridiculous when you're talking about a quarterback, whose main job and ultimate success rides on his passing skills.

 
If you want to talk about how the Vikings secondary is an unadulterated disaster, then you'll get pretty much unanimous agreement. But good teams (and players) exploit their opponents weaknesses and beat inferior competition. Even when there are perfectly reasonable qualifiers to put around Tebow's and the Broncos' success, at 6-1 the laundry list of "yeah, buts" is getting comically long.
I didn't see Tebow exploit the Vikings secondary yesterday. The Broncos had 186 net passing yards, which is the 2nd-fewest that Minnesota has allowed all season.
 
If you want to talk about how the Vikings secondary is an unadulterated disaster, then you'll get pretty much unanimous agreement. But good teams (and players) exploit their opponents weaknesses and beat inferior competition. Even when there are perfectly reasonable qualifiers to put around Tebow's and the Broncos' success, at 6-1 the laundry list of "yeah, buts" is getting comically long.
I didn't see Tebow exploit the Vikings secondary yesterday. The Broncos had 186 net passing yards, which is the 2nd-fewest that Minnesota has allowed all season.
Please tell me you're joking.
 
If you want to talk about how the Vikings secondary is an unadulterated disaster, then you'll get pretty much unanimous agreement. But good teams (and players) exploit their opponents weaknesses and beat inferior competition. Even when there are perfectly reasonable qualifiers to put around Tebow's and the Broncos' success, at 6-1 the laundry list of "yeah, buts" is getting comically long.
I didn't see Tebow exploit the Vikings secondary yesterday. The Broncos had 186 net passing yards, which is the 2nd-fewest that Minnesota has allowed all season.
Tebow averaged 13.47 YPA attempt yesterday. That's over twice as much as his YPA for the season.
 
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It's not about the Steelers. I can't think of a better comparison for what Tebow brings to the table than Kordell, that's all.

Actually, they are similar. Their skills and playing styles are very similar, but Kordell was trusted with more passing responsibilites when he was young, which led to a ton of turnovers. He turned the ball over, but in general they do things similarly. And Kordell was a superstar for a year and won plenty of games with the help of a great defense and by making enough plays to win. It just killed the Steelers when they faced a team with a far better QB in the playoffs.
I'm sorry, but the most applicable Steelers' example (and maybe the most applicable example overall) is Big Ben, not Kordell.Obviously Big Ben is (and was) a much better pure passer, but the similarities beyond that are very high. The only one to ever do the 55-minutes-of-offensive-ineptitude-followed-by-5-minutes-of-brilliance routine to anywhere near the levels that the Broncos are doing this year are the Big Ben led Steeler teams of the last seven years (minus 2006). Heck, that's always been the knock on Big Ben prior to this year. Sure he's great in the clutch, but he only has a chance in the clutch because his defense bails the offense out for the first 55 minutes. That's pretty much the same knock that there's been on Tebow during this winning streak.

Additionally, Tebow and young Big Ben both struggled at reading the field, but make up for it with their ability to scramble. Both take drive killing sacks 3 times a game and extend drives with inexplicable scrambles 3 times a game.

Big Ben was able to extend his late game rallies into good playoff performance as a whole (for the most part, though he didn't play particularly well in any of the Super Bowls outside of the last drive of the Arizona game). That much has yet to be seen with Tebow, whether his "show up big when it counts" gene will extend from the end of games in the regular season to the playoffs like it did with Big Ben.

Personally, I don't see any reason he can't extend those end-game performances to whole game performances right now (he did it last year) if Fox would just take the reigns off (and forgets trying to fidget with the throwing motion) and let him take his lumps (like the Lions game) as he grows, like most young QBs are allowed to do.

If anything gets exposed in the playoffs I think it will be the disparity between the Denver defense and the Pittsburgh defense of the last 7 years, not the QB play. The Steelers have won quite a few playoff games (and a super bowl) during that run where they had truly awful QB play because their defense was capable of shutting down everyone, including those Brady/Peyton teams that would likely shred Denver.
Couldn't disagree more. There are very few similarities at all between Ben's game early on and Tebow's now aside from the fact that they both can run and extend plays, but that can be said for a lot of QBs. Ben was always very good as a passer, as all of his efficiency stats would show you. He was accurate and good, and the reason why he didn't throw more was because he didn't have to.

Tebow's not passing a lot because he's not capable, which his coach has openly admitted.

To say they're very similar aside from the fact that Ben was a much better passer is kinda ridiculous when you're talking about a quarterback, whose main job and ultimate success rides on his passing skills.
better passer meaning completed more to both teams right?he (Ben) had a higher completion percentage than Tebow but had a ton more INTs

he didn't throw more because they could not be sure which team he would throw to, and their best way to win was have him manage games

take, for example, his super bowl "win" he sub-tebow numbers

9-21 123 yards 0TDs 0ints

was that his game plan "Ben, we don;t need you to complete more than about 43% of your passes, and feel free to throw a couple to the seahawks. We know you could throw 4TDs at 60% and 0 ints, but we just don't need that..."

Ben improved a LOT over time

 
The Broncos wide receivers could not have been more wide open than they were against the flailing Vikings. You have to give Tebow credit for gaining the respect of the opposing defenses but the Vikings pooped the bed when Tebow scrambled. Their defensive backfield ran to the line of scrimmage when Tebow looked like he was going to run, abandoning all semblence of maintaining their assignments. If Tebow did not make those throws he woould be open to severe criticism. The guy makes plays, no doubt, but it's hard to weigh his unconventional talent when the opposing defenses can't cover or tackle. And there was little of each from the Vikings. Tebow had a nice throw on an incompletion near the end of regulation; it was his first and only read on a timing play but the ball was well placed. That was the only contested throw I saw; admittedly, I only watched the second half and I was watching the game from a stationary bike at the gym. The Vikings had to move the ball against a defense that was contesting them on the field. The Broncos were scoring in two plays. That is not a well coached or well played defense. Some of that credit goes to Tebow and McGhee playing well, however, that was a very bad Vikings defensive team yesterday.

If the Patriots went on to lose against the Colts yesterday, givng up fourth quarter points at an alarming rate, would you say that Orlovsky is a great QB? I would hope not.
I agree with you for the most part but I am willing cut the DC some slack. Vikings have lost 2 starting CB and 2 starting safeties from a defensive backfield that was considered to be one of the weakest in the league to begin with. I don't know if any coach or any scheme can make up for the serious lack of talent and experience playing those positions. That said, I believe Tebow did an excellent job finding the holes in the defences and taking advantage.

 
It's not about the Steelers. I can't think of a better comparison for what Tebow brings to the table than Kordell, that's all.

Actually, they are similar. Their skills and playing styles are very similar, but Kordell was trusted with more passing responsibilites when he was young, which led to a ton of turnovers. He turned the ball over, but in general they do things similarly. And Kordell was a superstar for a year and won plenty of games with the help of a great defense and by making enough plays to win. It just killed the Steelers when they faced a team with a far better QB in the playoffs.
I'm sorry, but the most applicable Steelers' example (and maybe the most applicable example overall) is Big Ben, not Kordell.Obviously Big Ben is (and was) a much better pure passer, but the similarities beyond that are very high. The only one to ever do the 55-minutes-of-offensive-ineptitude-followed-by-5-minutes-of-brilliance routine to anywhere near the levels that the Broncos are doing this year are the Big Ben led Steeler teams of the last seven years (minus 2006). Heck, that's always been the knock on Big Ben prior to this year. Sure he's great in the clutch, but he only has a chance in the clutch because his defense bails the offense out for the first 55 minutes. That's pretty much the same knock that there's been on Tebow during this winning streak.

Additionally, Tebow and young Big Ben both struggled at reading the field, but make up for it with their ability to scramble. Both take drive killing sacks 3 times a game and extend drives with inexplicable scrambles 3 times a game.

Big Ben was able to extend his late game rallies into good playoff performance as a whole (for the most part, though he didn't play particularly well in any of the Super Bowls outside of the last drive of the Arizona game). That much has yet to be seen with Tebow, whether his "show up big when it counts" gene will extend from the end of games in the regular season to the playoffs like it did with Big Ben.

Personally, I don't see any reason he can't extend those end-game performances to whole game performances right now (he did it last year) if Fox would just take the reigns off (and forgets trying to fidget with the throwing motion) and let him take his lumps (like the Lions game) as he grows, like most young QBs are allowed to do.

If anything gets exposed in the playoffs I think it will be the disparity between the Denver defense and the Pittsburgh defense of the last 7 years, not the QB play. The Steelers have won quite a few playoff games (and a super bowl) during that run where they had truly awful QB play because their defense was capable of shutting down everyone, including those Brady/Peyton teams that would likely shred Denver.
Couldn't disagree more. There are very few similarities at all between Ben's game early on and Tebow's now aside from the fact that they both can run and extend plays, but that can be said for a lot of QBs. Ben was always very good as a passer, as all of his efficiency stats would show you. He was accurate and good, and the reason why he didn't throw more was because he didn't have to.

Tebow's not passing a lot because he's not capable, which his coach has openly admitted.

To say they're very similar aside from the fact that Ben was a much better passer is kinda ridiculous when you're talking about a quarterback, whose main job and ultimate success rides on his passing skills.
better passer meaning completed more to both teams right?he (Ben) had a higher completion percentage than Tebow but had a ton more INTs

he didn't throw more because they could not be sure which team he would throw to, and their best way to win was have him manage games

take, for example, his super bowl "win" he sub-tebow numbers

9-21 123 yards 0TDs 0ints

was that his game plan "Ben, we don;t need you to complete more than about 43% of your passes, and feel free to throw a couple to the seahawks. We know you could throw 4TDs at 60% and 0 ints, but we just don't need that..."

Ben improved a LOT over time
It's easy to pick and choose single games that fit your argument. Go back and take a look at Ben's numbers from the playoff games leading up to the Super Bowl. He had an awful Super Bowl, but he was great in all 3 games to get there. His passing was always efficient, which is why he was always among the leaders in the NFL at yards per attempt.Ben improved a lot like all franchise QBs do, but when he came into the league he was light years ahead of where Tebow is right now.

This isn't about Ben. There's just absolutely no comparison between Tebow and a young Roethlisberger. Their skillsets are completely different.

 

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