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Tim Tebow - 8.17.21 Waived By Jacksonville (2 Viewers)

By overall do you mean 40 time? Cause I'm fairly certain his other measurables would smoke Smith's. IMO if you are going to look at one measurable, the best indicator of athleticism is vertical. It shows how explosive an athlete is.
By overall, I mean overall. You could have done this yourself, but...let's compare since you you objected. Tebow:

4.71 40 yard dash

2.66 20 yard dash

1.55 10 yard dash

38 1/2 Vertical jump

09'07" Long Jump

4.17 Shuttle

6.66 Cone Drill

Alex Smith:

4.71 40 yard dash (Exactly the same as Tebow)

2.77 20 yard dash (Tebow slightly better but is 2.66 that much better?)

1.66 10 yard dahs (Tebow slightly better at 1.55 but very close)

32 (Tebow at 38 is significantly better here; not sure how much jumping high matters for a Qb though...)

09'05" (Tebow at 9'07' is almost the same)

3.97 (Smith slightly better at Shuttle but again, very close)

6.82 (These are both very good Cone drills; Tebow's is best ever but Smith's is in the exceptional range)

So, Tebow is better, but the difference is meh. I am not sure that a great cone drills correlates with NFL success. There are not too many players in the top 20 all time who are even recognizable to me. Of those who are, the best are Joe Flacco and Alex Smith.

If you disagree with Smith, why don't you look at the data and suggest someone who more closely resembles Tebow? The other reason I picked Smith is because they played for the same coach, in the same system. When I then looked at the measurables the correspondence seemed striking.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AvhP...morealexsmithth

 
Ha! The other guy who jumps out after I sort by vertical, since you say it is the best indicator, is Josh McCown.

4.59 McCown is faster at 40 (Tebow 4.71)

20 Yard Dash, Tebow is faster 2.66 to 2.7

10 yard Dash Tebow is fast 1.55 to 1.64

Vertical leap: Exactly the same: 38.5 to 38.5

Broad Jump: McCown is better, 10'00' to 09'07"

Shuttle: McCown is better, 3.9 to 4.17

Cone Drill: Tebow is #1 at 6.66 but McCown is #15 all time at 6.85

Josh McCown

 
As I said earlier, his workout numbers are reminiscent of a slow, undersized TE. There's a reason slow, undersized TEs don't take handoffs out of the backfield. I'm not "ignoring his tremendous power, strength, and agility" as much as I'm recognizing that the DBs/LBs/DEs in the NFL trump him in every single one of those categories.
Mike Alstott down? Tebow's a comparable size/speed to Alstott. Alstott got plenty of carries... in short yardage or power situations. Situations that rely less on speed (not Tebow's strong suit) and more on power (Tebow's strong suit).
By overall, I mean overall. You could have done this yourself, but...let's compare since you you objected.

Tebow:

4.71 40 yard dash

2.66 20 yard dash

1.55 10 yard dash

38 1/2 Vertical jump

09'07" Long Jump

4.17 Shuttle

6.66 Cone Drill

Alex Smith:

4.71 40 yard dash (Exactly the same as Tebow)

2.77 20 yard dash (Tebow slightly better but is 2.66 that much better?)

1.66 10 yard dahs (Tebow slightly better at 1.55 but very close)

32 (Tebow at 38 is significantly better here; not sure how much jumping high matters for a Qb though...)

09'05" (Tebow at 9'07' is almost the same)

3.97 (Smith slightly better at Shuttle but again, very close)

6.82 (These are both very good Cone drills; Tebow's is best ever but Smith's is in the exceptional range)

So, Tebow is better, but the difference is meh. I am not sure that a great cone drills correlates with NFL success. There are not too many players in the top 20 all time who are even recognizable to me. Of those who are, the best are Joe Flacco and Alex Smith.

If you disagree with Smith, why don't you look at the data and suggest someone who more closely resembles Tebow? The other reason I picked Smith is because they played for the same coach, in the same system. When I then looked at the measurables the correspondence seemed striking.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AvhP...morealexsmithth
Ha! The other guy who jumps out after I sort by vertical, since you say it is the best indicator, is Josh McCown.

4.59 McCown is faster at 40 (Tebow 4.71)

20 Yard Dash, Tebow is faster 2.66 to 2.7

10 yard Dash Tebow is fast 1.55 to 1.64

Vertical leap: Exactly the same: 38.5 to 38.5

Broad Jump: McCown is better, 10'00' to 09'07"

Shuttle: McCown is better, 3.9 to 4.17

Cone Drill: Tebow is #1 at 6.66 but McCown is #15 all time at 6.85

Josh McCown
First off, a 10th of a second difference on 10 yard dash splits is a really big difference. I mean, a tenth of a second on 40-yard dash splits is a big deal (the difference between a 4.5 guy and a 4.4 guy, at least in perception, is substantial). Now, imagine achieving the same difference over a quarter the distance. That's a HUGE advantage for Tebow over Smith or McCown. He doesn't have their top end speed, but in terms of explosive acceleration, he trumps them both by a big margin. I'd say the 10 or 20 yard splits are probably more relevant for NFL purposes, because how often does a QB run 40 yards in a straight line? Does anyone care if Josh McCown is a greater home run threat with his legs than Tebow? Whether it's McCown or Tebow, no DB will have any trouble chasing them down from behind.Second off, whether Smith or McCown became busts is irrelevant. Both Smith and McCown were perceived as "athletic" QBs when they came into the league. Tebow puts up better measurables, and EBF questions whether he's really that athletic of a QB. Well... he's more athletic than two guys who were known as "athletic QBs".

 
32 (Tebow at 38 is significantly better here; not sure how much jumping high matters for a Qb though...)
What? You've never seen the famous "Tebow Jump Pass"???? :lmao: :unsure: Check'em out!!!

That was the coolest play that Florida's run since Spurrier broke out the Emory and Henry plays against Alabama at the end of the 1994 SEC Championship.

 
Paige: McD says Tebow has the "It" factor

By Woody Paige

The Denver Post

Posted: 05/07/2010 01:00:00 AM MDT

Updated: 05/07/2010 11:52:21 AM MDT

Tim Tebow has IT.

Not if.

And he gets it.

So says Josh McDaniels.

"I think the thing about Tim is what everybody calls the 'It'. There are those kind of people that have that 'It,' " the coach said emphatically this week in his office at Dove Valley. On the wall beside McDaniels' desk is a large TV, and frozen on the flat screen was Tim Tebow, in his orange Broncos practice jersey with a football by his left ear — a start button for throwing a pass.

McDaniels looks at the image of the Broncos' rookie quarterback and compares Tebow's "It" factor to another quarterback he directly coached for five seasons in New England.

"When Tom (Brady) came to us in 2001, I wasn't on the offensive side of the ball, but I can remember the feeling in the building was that he had something that nobody else had . . . and how strongly he felt that ultimately he would be a great player. It was obviously apparent in subsequent seasons.

"I think when you get a guy, and he's waiting for me to tell him he's going to be a great player, we might be waiting a long time," he said.

McDaniels respected the confidence Brady showed then and admires the confidence Tebow shows now.

"That confidence affects everybody," he said. "We could see it last week at rookie camp. There were a bunch of rookies out there with no confidence, except him. He's got such confidence that he will just not let himself fail.

"And that quality sometimes is very underrated. There are people with a great deal of God-given ability who are fun to watch, and it's really interesting to see what kind of seasons they'll put together. Then there are guys who will say they won't fail, our team's not going to fail, and they have a 'I'm not going to let you down' attitude. And that's what you notice with Tim."

NFL scouts, coaches and analysts offered two alarming criticisms about Tebow the quarterback: his long, looping delivery and his lack of arm strength.

McDaniels has no concern about either. The Monday before the draft, McDaniels and other members of the organization flew to Florida to decide if Tebow would be their man.

"We spent seven hours with him, and I came away thinking that everybody keeps talking about the thing I think we can fix — that's my job as a coach — and nobody's talking about the things we don't have to teach him because he already has all that.

"I was struck by his intelligence, the way he understands the game, how I can have a great football conversation with him. I didn't have to sit there and draw it up. I would say, 'If they do this, here's what I want you to do,' and he says, 'I got it, Coach.' "

McDaniels implies that Tebow could play quarterback for the Broncos sooner rather than later.

"To me, (Tebow's acumen) gives him an advantage, an opportunity to play earlier than other people have played. Everybody keeps talking about it will be two, three years before he can play, and I think they don't know this guy. His mental capacity, and the way that he works, and the fact that he's on such a fast pace, will give him the chance to compete apples-to-apples.

"It's all going to be about his production and performance. There are a lot of rookies who can't run plays because they can't figure it out yet. That's not going to be the case with Tim. He'll be able to do the things (veterans) do."

During that final visit with Tebow, the coach began to explain the Broncos' offensive terminology, and the quarterback picked it up immediately. When McDaniels quizzed the QB about defensive fronts, Tebow proved he could recognize every variation and how to respond.

"You know what Tim doesn't know about our playbook?" McDaniels asked, then answered. "Only what we haven't told him yet."

And when Tebow threw at his private workout, McDaniels knew he wanted to figure out a way to wheel and deal in the first round to get him.

In Florida and at rookie camp, Tebow "threw into the wind, with it, across it, and there were no issues," McDaniels said. When Tebow threw long, "he would be looking, looking, then stand up, without winding up and all that stuff, throw 60 yards, just like that. He's got a really strong arm."

McDaniels points his remote control at the television, and Tebow is brought to life. Back and forth, fast forward, rewind, the coach reveals the rookie's throwing motion.

The problem with his delivery, McDaniels said, was not as much the left arm action as the right side body reaction. Tebow's nonthrowing arm was flailing, and his right side was bailing out. He's corrected the throwing motion and cocked position, is releasing the ball quicker, and has eliminated the inaccurate sidearm passes. McDaniels had Tebow tuck his right elbow, straighten his shoulders and concentrate on forcing the "15" (on his jersey front) to fall off (figuratively) when he throws.

"See, he's doing it, after just a couple of days," McDaniels said, looking at the screen. "What's it going to be like after 65 practices? He gets it."

IT is happening with Tim Tebow.
 
i believe in the "It" factor. Whether Tebow has "it" or not is yet to be seen, and just because Josh McDaniels says it's so, doesn't make it so. We will see. The main thing I take away from this story is that people who think it will be two or three years before Tebow starts are wrong. He may start coming out of camp and he will definitely be starting by the end of this season if the team struggles.

 
Paige: McD says Tebow has the "It" factor

By Woody Paige

The Denver Post

Posted: 05/07/2010 01:00:00 AM MDT

Updated: 05/07/2010 11:52:21 AM MDT

Tim Tebow has IT.

Not if.

And he gets it.

So says Josh McDaniels.

"I think the thing about Tim is what everybody calls the 'It'. There are those kind of people that have that 'It,' " the coach said emphatically this week in his office at Dove Valley. On the wall beside McDaniels' desk is a large TV, and frozen on the flat screen was Tim Tebow, in his orange Broncos practice jersey with a football by his left ear — a start button for throwing a pass.

McDaniels looks at the image of the Broncos' rookie quarterback and compares Tebow's "It" factor to another quarterback he directly coached for five seasons in New England.

"When Tom (Brady) came to us in 2001, I wasn't on the offensive side of the ball, but I can remember the feeling in the building was that he had something that nobody else had . . . and how strongly he felt that ultimately he would be a great player. It was obviously apparent in subsequent seasons.

"I think when you get a guy, and he's waiting for me to tell him he's going to be a great player, we might be waiting a long time," he said.

McDaniels respected the confidence Brady showed then and admires the confidence Tebow shows now.

"That confidence affects everybody," he said. "We could see it last week at rookie camp. There were a bunch of rookies out there with no confidence, except him. He's got such confidence that he will just not let himself fail.

"And that quality sometimes is very underrated. There are people with a great deal of God-given ability who are fun to watch, and it's really interesting to see what kind of seasons they'll put together. Then there are guys who will say they won't fail, our team's not going to fail, and they have a 'I'm not going to let you down' attitude. And that's what you notice with Tim."

NFL scouts, coaches and analysts offered two alarming criticisms about Tebow the quarterback: his long, looping delivery and his lack of arm strength.

McDaniels has no concern about either. The Monday before the draft, McDaniels and other members of the organization flew to Florida to decide if Tebow would be their man.

"We spent seven hours with him, and I came away thinking that everybody keeps talking about the thing I think we can fix — that's my job as a coach — and nobody's talking about the things we don't have to teach him because he already has all that.

"I was struck by his intelligence, the way he understands the game, how I can have a great football conversation with him. I didn't have to sit there and draw it up. I would say, 'If they do this, here's what I want you to do,' and he says, 'I got it, Coach.' "

McDaniels implies that Tebow could play quarterback for the Broncos sooner rather than later.

"To me, (Tebow's acumen) gives him an advantage, an opportunity to play earlier than other people have played. Everybody keeps talking about it will be two, three years before he can play, and I think they don't know this guy. His mental capacity, and the way that he works, and the fact that he's on such a fast pace, will give him the chance to compete apples-to-apples.

"It's all going to be about his production and performance. There are a lot of rookies who can't run plays because they can't figure it out yet. That's not going to be the case with Tim. He'll be able to do the things (veterans) do."

During that final visit with Tebow, the coach began to explain the Broncos' offensive terminology, and the quarterback picked it up immediately. When McDaniels quizzed the QB about defensive fronts, Tebow proved he could recognize every variation and how to respond.

"You know what Tim doesn't know about our playbook?" McDaniels asked, then answered. "Only what we haven't told him yet."

And when Tebow threw at his private workout, McDaniels knew he wanted to figure out a way to wheel and deal in the first round to get him.

In Florida and at rookie camp, Tebow "threw into the wind, with it, across it, and there were no issues," McDaniels said. When Tebow threw long, "he would be looking, looking, then stand up, without winding up and all that stuff, throw 60 yards, just like that. He's got a really strong arm."

McDaniels points his remote control at the television, and Tebow is brought to life. Back and forth, fast forward, rewind, the coach reveals the rookie's throwing motion.

The problem with his delivery, McDaniels said, was not as much the left arm action as the right side body reaction. Tebow's nonthrowing arm was flailing, and his right side was bailing out. He's corrected the throwing motion and cocked position, is releasing the ball quicker, and has eliminated the inaccurate sidearm passes. McDaniels had Tebow tuck his right elbow, straighten his shoulders and concentrate on forcing the "15" (on his jersey front) to fall off (figuratively) when he throws.

"See, he's doing it, after just a couple of days," McDaniels said, looking at the screen. "What's it going to be like after 65 practices? He gets it."

IT is happening with Tim Tebow.
Bragging after a couple of days? McDaniels must be feeling pretty insecure. He must know he's on the hotseat. I don't care about the Broncos so I don't mind watching them fail. But if Tebow becomes a franchise QB, he'll look like a genius-- Or less of an idiot, anyway.

 
"That confidence affects everybody," he said. "We could see it last week at rookie camp. There were a bunch of rookies out there with no confidence, except him. He's got such confidence that he will just not let himself fail."And that quality sometimes is very underrated. There are people with a great deal of God-given ability who are fun to watch, and it's really interesting to see what kind of seasons they'll put together. Then there are guys who will say they won't fail, our team's not going to fail, and they have a 'I'm not going to let you down' attitude. And that's what you notice with Tim."
The obvious comparison here is Tom Brady because he's a QB and McDaniels worked with him. But the player I think about is Ray Lewis. I've read about Lewis when the scouts were evaluating him coming out of Miami... unlike Tebow he had all the skills to be a ready-made linebacker the moment he stepped onto the NFL field. That's not what I'm referring to.These scouts sent to evaluate all these big time prospects from south florida, every one of them an alpha-male, they said when they watched "the guys" together that Lewis was the most alpha of all the alphas. He commanded respect from his peers. This kind of thing interests me. What makes Ray Lewis the greatest linebacker of my generation is not his skills - he has all of them of course, but so do a handful of others - but his mentality. I'm not even sure how to put a finger on it exactly, because "confidence" seems so lacking a description. I think it's something deeper in the psyche, and it has to do with social dynamics and psychology that extends to other animals, not just humans. Ray Lewis is like the baddest lion in all of Africa. Does Tebow have that same trait? From what I read it seems like he does, but instead of having all the ready-made skills at his position that Lewis had at LB, he learns like a sponge. When I hear Tebow talk in interviews and what not, he usually sounds like a blubbering idiot who speaks in run on sentences about God. I think it just doesn't translate when reporters are asking him questions, because those reporters aren't his peers. Likewise Lewis doesn't really seem infinitely more intimidating than other intimidating NFL players on TV and in interviews. But when you watch him among his peers, he commands their respect like no one else in the league.If Tebow's mind is as strong as Lewis', he's going to be special.
 
Bragging after a couple of days? McDaniels must be feeling pretty insecure. He must know he's on the hotseat. I don't care about the Broncos so I don't mind watching them fail. But if Tebow becomes a franchise QB, he'll look like a genius-- Or less of an idiot, anyway.
Either that, or he's just really excited about the prospect of coaching Tebow. As if that wasn't already obvious by the price he paid to get him.If it seems McDaniels spends a lot of time talking about Tebow... well, I suspect that a lot of that has to do with the fact that he's probably asked five times more questions about Tebow than any other coach in the league is asked about any other player in the league. Since Tebow was drafted, he leads the NFL in jersey sales- shattering all rookie records in the process. In case you hadn't caught on yet, Tim Tebow is big business.
 
"That confidence affects everybody," he said. "We could see it last week at rookie camp. There were a bunch of rookies out there with no confidence, except him. He's got such confidence that he will just not let himself fail."And that quality sometimes is very underrated. There are people with a great deal of God-given ability who are fun to watch, and it's really interesting to see what kind of seasons they'll put together. Then there are guys who will say they won't fail, our team's not going to fail, and they have a 'I'm not going to let you down' attitude. And that's what you notice with Tim."
The obvious comparison here is Tom Brady because he's a QB and McDaniels worked with him. But the player I think about is Ray Lewis. I've read about Lewis when the scouts were evaluating him coming out of Miami... unlike Tebow he had all the skills to be a ready-made linebacker the moment he stepped onto the NFL field. That's not what I'm referring to.These scouts sent to evaluate all these big time prospects from south florida, every one of them an alpha-male, they said when they watched "the guys" together that Lewis was the most alpha of all the alphas. He commanded respect from his peers. This kind of thing interests me. What makes Ray Lewis the greatest linebacker of my generation is not his skills - he has all of them of course, but so do a handful of others - but his mentality. I'm not even sure how to put a finger on it exactly, because "confidence" seems so lacking a description. I think it's something deeper in the psyche, and it has to do with social dynamics and psychology that extends to other animals, not just humans. Ray Lewis is like the baddest lion in all of Africa. Does Tebow have that same trait? From what I read it seems like he does, but instead of having all the ready-made skills at his position that Lewis had at LB, he learns like a sponge. When I hear Tebow talk in interviews and what not, he usually sounds like a blubbering idiot who speaks in run on sentences about God. I think it just doesn't translate when reporters are asking him questions, because those reporters aren't his peers. Likewise Lewis doesn't really seem infinitely more intimidating than other intimidating NFL players on TV and in interviews. But when you watch him among his peers, he commands their respect like no one else in the league.If Tebow's mind is as strong as Lewis', he's going to be special.
:goodposting: I still can't believe people thought TT would fall out of the first round. I'm going to laugh when everyone is applauding McDaniels after giving him such a hard time after the draft. If Demaryus Thomas is legit, McD will be heralded as the new football genius. Trading down to get both those guys was amazing IMO.
 
It's real nice that he's a hard worker, and a leader. It really is. But at some point, to be a successful QB, you have to be able to drop back, and thread the needle. And I personally don't believe that accuracy and touch can be gained through hard work. You either have it, or you don't.

 
i think if mcdaniels is smart enough to tailor a scheme that best fits tebows strengths, AND tebow matures & developes over next 1-2 years, those two could come together faster than many think (of course, many think he will never get there)...

kind of like the "golden spike" that connected the two halves of the first transcontinental railroad, which was built simultaneously from the respective coasts inwards, meeting in the middle to save time. :)

* demaryius thomas could be an excellent example and conscious choice on the HCs part to surround tebow with the kind of players that will help him succeed... he has what coaches call a large catching radius (helping corral errant passes), and the physical tools, skill set & game to out-position/muscle/jump smaller DBs on downfield passes... decker could be similar... as kiper noted during the draft, as a center fielder on the minnesota baseball team, you know he has range, and you can see he has outstanding hands (though on his highlights he falls down a bit too much for my liking, and doesn't look super explosive after the catch... compared to the smaller mardy gilyard, drafted in similar regions in the actual draft... as well as the dynasty variant).

already on the team, eddie royal has the separation quickness that could make him an attractive and inviting target, if he is used in the slot at times (which might better position ROYAL to succeed, and put his tools & skills to the best possible use?)... they could design more easy swing passes to knowshon moreno?

IF tebow pans out (i think he does, and starts in 2011), he could put up prolific rushing TD numbers (for a QB), which could give his fantasy production a turbo-boost... :)

 
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Yes, it was the "spread", but Florida's offense is actually set up VERY similarly to New England's. Speedy deep threat on the outside, with quick little guys in the slot running routes underneath. It always makes me laugh when people compare Florida's offense to someone like Nebraska of the 90's. The offenses could not possibly be more different. The Florida offense has FAR more in common with New England's than it does Nebraska's.
You are correct. I actually think it is even more accurate to say that NE's offense is set up to be like Florida's, minus the QB running. Belichick has admired Meyer; Belichick and McDaniel have studied Meyer's spread offense for reasonable period of time. Denver's offense is likely to be very similar in concept and scheme to Florida's- including some QB dives.
 
i think if mcdaniels is smart enough to tailor a scheme that best fits tebows strengths, AND tebow matures & developes over next 1-2 years, those two could come together faster than many think (of course, many think he will never get there)...
The thing his, McDaniel's already scheme already fits Tebow's strengths. While he was managing NE's offense, NE moved from a two TE power running game (Antowain Smith and Corey Dillon) with occasional spread options to a full spread offense. When Cassel took over in 2008, the QB rushing attempts doubled. One would have to think McDaniel's vision is to base his scheme on the team that went 16-0 and set records for points.McDaniel simply tweaked his Bronco offense to better fit his personnel- to allow for it to better accommodate Orton's strengths and hide his weaknesses.
 
It's real nice that he's a hard worker, and a leader. It really is. But at some point, to be a successful QB, you have to be able to drop back, and thread the needle. And I personally don't believe that accuracy and touch can be gained through hard work. You either have it, or you don't.
Tebow's accuracy and ability to thread the needle is fine (just ask Oklahoma, two of those seam routes he threw in between 6 defenders in that NC game weren't replicable by many college QB's), it's his ability to read the field that will hold him back.There were way too many times at Florida where Tebow dropped back and just looked around trying to figure out what was going on.Fortunately, that is one thing that, while difficult, is possible to learn.
 
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It took Elway 13 years to win a Super Bowl. Many people thought he'd never do it but it took a lot of surrounding talent to finally get it accomplished.

Hopefully Tebow and Coach McDaniels will be around for a while (5+ years) to let the young team mature and see what they can accomplish.

 
It's real nice that he's a hard worker, and a leader. It really is. But at some point, to be a successful QB, you have to be able to drop back, and thread the needle. And I personally don't believe that accuracy and touch can be gained through hard work. You either have it, or you don't.
Tebow's accuracy and ability to thread the needle is fine (just ask Oklahoma, two of those seam routes he threw in between 6 defenders in that NC game weren't replicable by many college QB's), it's his ability to read the field that will hold him back.There were way too many times at Florida where Tebow dropped back and just looked around trying to figure out what was going on.Fortunately, that is one thing that, while difficult, is possible to learn.
In this last SEC Championship against Alabama, it seemed like the coaches were calling a lot of plays that required that type of execution instead of running their regular offense. I don't think nor the rest of the team were ready for it and didn't run the plays very well.Tebow can certainly make the plays given time but I think the Broncos are going to experiment with a lot of "new" formations in the next couple of years to see what works best.The Oklahoma game was probably the best game that Florida's ever played, even with Percy Harvin at 80%. The defense was amazing and the key to keeping the Gators in the game in the 4th quarter. And the TE from OK, Gresham, was a complete and utter stud - can't believe they didn't go to him more. I'm not sure who could have stopped him.
 
Imagine if Denver had drafted Harvin last season rather than Moreno - that would be pretty awesome.
Imagine if Denver had actually drafted a decent defender at any point within the first 3 rounds within the last two seasons. That would have been nice, too.
 
What makes Ray Lewis the greatest linebacker of my generation is not his skills - he has all of them of course, but so do a handful of others - but his mentality. I'm not even sure how to put a finger on it exactly, because "confidence" seems so lacking a description. I think it's something deeper in the psyche, and it has to do with social dynamics and psychology that extends to other animals, not just humans. Does Tebow have that same trait? From what I read it seems like he does...But when you watch him among his peers, he commands their respect like no one else in the league.
Interesting point karma. In NY at the Heisman event, Mark Ingram was extremely nervous...Tebow took him under his wing and led him thru it, which culminated with Mark making everyone proud. Tebow's leadership is definitely not hype.
 
Living in Florida and being a Longhorn fan, I've always been a Tebow and "Gator Hater." But I have lived here since 1998 and have watched Tebow close up for his entire career. As much as I hate to say it, he is a born leader, who just will not allow himself to fail. He will do whatever it takes to win and whatever it takes to motivate his team. He is a special athlete and I am reversing previous opinions that he will never be an NFL QB. He may not be great in the NFL, but he will be successful.

 
Some of the sharks saw this developing

Finless said:
If not I'm pretty sure Denver will be interested in Tebow.
Tebow ended up in the right hands and will be a stud for years. I feel like it's just become the popular thing to say: "He's not an NFL quarterback". They'll be a lot of crow eating and I'm pretty sure it won't be happening in this thread. Tebow's got winner written all over him. Denver has a bright future.
Yeah but did you predict trading up in the 1st round?McDaniels get rid of CutlerBring in a Tebow. If he can make him a real QB+coaching genious.It's all about ego.In college he could psyche teammates up and push them but will the same be true in the pros?
 
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Leadership is great and all great QBs have it. But to be in a position to demonstrate leadership you have to perform at a great level--not too many backups are leaders. Not too many average QBs are great leaders. A guy like Brees is a leader because he has done it on the field so many times. And being a hard worker is great too--it can help you avoid being a bust. But at the end of the day that hard work needs to translate into on-field performance, and then and only then can you start to act like a leader. Supposedly he has the physical ability. The biggest hurdle for a QB though is the mental--can he learn to read the field quickly and then make the right decision on a consistent basis? And can he learn to throw as accurately on a consistent basis? Those two things are the minimum threshold that must be attained for any of the rest of his supposed intangibles to shine.

 
There is a lot of fancy play syndrome going on here. The guy's throwing ability is below average, and he's not some unbelievable Vick-like athlete. Case closed.

 
Leadership is great and all great QBs have it. But to be in a position to demonstrate leadership you have to perform at a great level
B-I-N-G-O. Leadership doesn't help complete passes.
This continues to astound me. Guys, he is the career leader in NCAA passing efficiency, playing against some of the toughest schedules around. I'm not enough of an expert to break down what he has flaws in, and don't pretend to be but to keep throwing out that he is somehow inaccurate and can't complete passes is ridiculous.
 
Leadership is great and all great QBs have it. But to be in a position to demonstrate leadership you have to perform at a great level
B-I-N-G-O. Leadership doesn't help complete passes.
This continues to astound me. Guys, he is the career leader in NCAA passing efficiency, playing against some of the toughest schedules around. I'm not enough of an expert to break down what he has flaws in, and don't pretend to be but to keep throwing out that he is somehow inaccurate and can't complete passes is ridiculous.
I hope you are right but I just don't believe it. Lots of guys throw for lots of yards in the NCAA--that doesn't mean they can throw. Why is it when I look at his highlight reels that there are more runs than throws? When he does throw the balls looks like a duck. It's not a pretty spiral and doesn't have zip. To me he looks like a FB playing the QB position. I hope he can throw as well as you say but the degree of difficulty in the NFL for QBs is so much higher. The pass rush in the NFL is furious and you have three or four seconds to find the open receiver. And in the NFL the accuracy has to be so much greater because an open receiver in the PROs would be considered covered in college. Guys rarely get wide open--you have to know how to thread a needle.
 
I hope you are right but I just don't believe it. Lots of guys throw for lots of yards in the NCAA--that doesn't mean they can throw. Why is it when I look at his highlight reels that there are more runs than throws? When he does throw the balls looks like a duck. It's not a pretty spiral and doesn't have zip.
If you're not seeing any ropes thrown to tightly covered guys then you aren't watching the right highlights. He's definitely demonstrated that he can do it. To be a good pro he'll have to do it a lot more consistently of course, but he can throw a spiral.
 
I hope you are right but I just don't believe it. Lots of guys throw for lots of yards in the NCAA--that doesn't mean they can throw. Why is it when I look at his highlight reels that there are more runs than throws? When he does throw the balls looks like a duck. It's not a pretty spiral and doesn't have zip.
If you're not seeing any ropes thrown to tightly covered guys then you aren't watching the right highlights. He's definitely demonstrated that he can do it. To be a good pro he'll have to do it a lot more consistently of course, but he can throw a spiral.
Yeah, I don't get it. At the end of the 2009 SEC championship game between Bama and Florida where the winner went to the national title, UF had a 3rd and 5 or so with a slim lead late in the 4th quarter. Did they have Tebow smash the ball up the middle with the season on the line? No, they had Tebow throw it deep, and he hit a well covered Louis Murphy down the sideline with a *perfectly* thrown, beautiful pass to seal the game.Then, in the NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP game against Oklahoma he threw two unbelievable seam routes in heavy coverage, thrown about 600mph, into impossible to beat coverage, perfect spiral and all.I can get that lots of people didn't see lots of Tebow games here and are just going off what they see in a few highlights that ESPNers and youtubers pick out (which are naturally going to cater to the plays where a QB lowers his shoulder and runs someone over so they can get all pumped up), but seriously, these were huge games on a national stage. What respectable football fan didn't watch those games?As for the other part of your post about what you see in highlights, I already covered that. Seeing a QB run the ball and lower his shoulder and run over a linebacker is exciting to a casual football fan, which is what those things are directed at. Your casual football fan doesn't see anything special in a video where a quarterback throws an in route on perfect timing to hit the guy out of his break. Lots of QBs do that, not many run the ball up the middle against a loaded defense from the 5 yard line. The super fantasy football analyst isn't what these things are catered to. They're not scouting videos. They're some college kid in Gainesville putting together a youtube video to taunt their SEC rivals by showing them that their linebackers get run over by a quarterback.Really, what you posted here is *eerily* similar to what people were posting about Percy Harvin last year, and I said the same thing to them. No one saw how good Percy's hands and ball skills were because the highlights were of his big runs, because that was what was exciting and what was different. They all talked about how he was a "raw" receiver who was going to have to learn all that stuff while I explained to them that he was already ahead of everyone else in the draft not named Crabtree in those categories.
 
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There is a lot of fancy play syndrome going on here. The guy's throwing ability is below average, and he's not some unbelievable Vick-like athlete. Case closed.
Tebow is going to revolutionize the QB position.Virtual HoF lock.
OK, I'll play Capitan Obvious here. The answer obviously lies somewhere in the middle. The Bronco fans and Tebow fans are hoping for closer to "two_dollars" post while the Tebow bashers think it will be closer to "destro's" post. At the very least, it will be interesting to watch him once he takes the field. As a Bronco fan, obviously I'm hoping for the best. Training camp can't get here soon enough, I'm looking forward to seeing what this guys got.
 
Ok, just for the sake of argument, let's assume that Tebow develops into a respectable pocket passer in the NFL by 2011 or 2012. Something David Garrard/Jason Campbell/Joe Flacco-ish. 3,500 yards and 20 TDs per year type.

Where would you put his ceiling of rushing yards and, more importantly, rushing TDs? Would it be in the Rodgers range of 200-300 yards and 4-5 TDs? or Does this guy have a legit shot of 10 rushing TDs in the NFL? For comparison's sake, Vince Young rushed for 550 yards and 7 TDs his rookie year.

 
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Ok, just for the sake of argument, let's assume that Tebow develops into a respectable pocket passer in the NFL by 2011 or 2012. Something David Garrard/Jason Campbell/Joe Flacco-ish. 3,500 yards and 20 TDs per year type.Where would you put his ceiling of rushing yards and, more importantly, rushing TDs? Would it be in the Rodgers range of 200-300 yards and 4-5 TDs? or Does this guy have a legit shot of 10 rushing TDs in the NFL? For comparison's sake, Vince Young rushed for 550 yards and 7 TDs his rookie year.
10 rushing TDs is extreme, although I suppose there's a possibility that Tebow manages to fluke his way into double digits once in his career. Daunte Culpepper had 10 and 7 TD seasons on the ground, and Steve McNair twice had 8 rushing TDs (both seasons ranked him in the top 10 in the NFL), so there's always the possibility that Tebow manages a freaky-high rushing TD season at some point.I think 400/6 rushing might be a more realistic average as long as he's in his "rushing prime" (which is different than a QB's passing prime).
 
Ok, just for the sake of argument, let's assume that Tebow develops into a respectable pocket passer in the NFL by 2011 or 2012. Something David Garrard/Jason Campbell/Joe Flacco-ish. 3,500 yards and 20 TDs per year type.Where would you put his ceiling of rushing yards and, more importantly, rushing TDs? Would it be in the Rodgers range of 200-300 yards and 4-5 TDs? or Does this guy have a legit shot of 10 rushing TDs in the NFL? For comparison's sake, Vince Young rushed for 550 yards and 7 TDs his rookie year.
10 rushing TDs is extreme, although I suppose there's a possibility that Tebow manages to fluke his way into double digits once in his career. Daunte Culpepper had 10 and 7 TD seasons on the ground, and Steve McNair twice had 8 rushing TDs (both seasons ranked him in the top 10 in the NFL), so there's always the possibility that Tebow manages a freaky-high rushing TD season at some point.I think 400/6 rushing might be a more realistic average as long as he's in his "rushing prime" (which is different than a QB's passing prime).
For comparison sake, the most rushing TDs the best running QB in the league, Michael Vick, ever had was 8. There's extremely little chance that Tebow gets 10 TDs on the ground. Flukes happen but I'd bet against it.Now, he's probably capable of 2500/15 and 600/6, depending on your scoring that's probably equivalent to 3700/24 through the air, which puts him in the top 15 range, somewhere near Jason Campbell and David Garrard.
 
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Obviously Tebow doesn't have the ability of Mike Vick to rush for over 1,000 yards, but he's probably the best short yardage back on their team now that hillis is out of town. If i were McDaniels I'd make him the primary ball carrier inside the 5.... it's got several advantages. 1st you've got 10 blockers instead of 9 when the QB hands off, like the wildcat. 2nd Tebow is a threat to throw the ball every time or do his patented jump pass. 3rd it keeps him involved in the offense while he develops as a passer for a year or two. of course you don't want to get your franchise QB killed, so i wouldn't waste his running ability on 3rd and short from mid-field, but use him strictly inside the 5. remember his real strength as a runner is not in the open field, but right at the line. because of this i think he's better for rushing TDs than Rodgers, Vick, McNair, and Culpepper.

 
I could see him putting up rushing numbers close to Culpepper did once he is the full time starter and as long as he stays healthy. The problem I see is the way he runs is very dangerous and the LBs and CBs in the NFL are bigger and the hits are harder. Culpepper didn't last long running that way.

 
There is a lot of fancy play syndrome going on here. The guy's throwing ability is below average, and he's not some unbelievable Vick-like athlete. Case closed.
Tebow is going to revolutionize the QB position.Virtual HoF lock.
OK, I'll play Capitan Obvious here. The answer obviously lies somewhere in the middle. The Bronco fans and Tebow fans are hoping for closer to "two_dollars" post while the Tebow bashers think it will be closer to "destro's" post. At the very least, it will be interesting to watch him once he takes the field. As a Bronco fan, obviously I'm hoping for the best. Training camp can't get here soon enough, I'm looking forward to seeing what this guys got.
Actually, I think my post suggests more of the "middle" approach than you are thinking. My post doesn't imply that I think he is going to be a bust of Leafian proportions, I just don't think he will be very good, because I think his passing skills are below average for the NFL, and he does not offer special talent running the ball, like Michael Vick at one point did. As such, I'm not going to worry about him for fantasy purposes. I'd consider drafting/acquiring him if the price was right, but I'm sure it won't be any time soon, or possibly ever. I could see him having a career similar to Kyle Orton (in terms of overall success; I am not saying that they are similar in terms of strengths/weaknesses), which is not exactly a bust, but it would leave a lot of people in Denver (and this thread) disappointed. We really shouldn't be even referring to an "Era" for Tebow, especially since, contrary to the title of this thread, it won't be beginning for some time. We're seeing a lot of the typical shark pool fancy play mentality, where people like to go out on a perceived limb and make bold statements or predictions with little to support them for the purposes of seeming "ahead of the curve" and contrarian, hoping to get an edge on their competition. Ryan Leaf <-> my assessment <-> Revolutionize______________^ middle ^________________
 
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Actually, I think my post suggests more of the "middle" approach than you are thinking. My post doesn't imply that I think he is going to be a bust of Leafian proportions, I just don't think he will be very good, because I think his passing skills are below average for the NFL, and he does not offer special talent running the ball, like Michael Vick at one point did. As such, I'm not going to worry about him for fantasy purposes. I'd consider drafting/acquiring him if the price was right, but I'm sure it won't be any time soon, or possibly ever. I could see him having a career similar to Kyle Orton (in terms of overall success; I am not saying that they are similar in terms of strengths/weaknesses), which is not exactly a bust, but it would leave a lot of people in Denver (and this thread) disappointed. We really shouldn't be even referring to an "Era" for Tebow, especially since, contrary to the title of this thread, it won't be beginning for some time. We're seeing a lot of the typical shark pool fancy play mentality, where people like to go out on a perceived limb and make bold statements or predictions with little to support them for the purposes of seeming "ahead of the curve" and contrarian, hoping to get an edge on their competition. Ryan Leaf <-> my assessment <-> Revolutionize______________^ middle ^________________
Tebow's getting drafted in the 3rd round in a lot of rookie drafts. That's just stupid. The dude's a first round QB, whether you dig him or not. Lots of people let Josh Freeman slip last year because they weren't really feeling him, and it looks like that's a mistake in hindsight, too. If nothing else, pedigree like that makes Tebow worth a late second round draft pick. And again, that's an "if nothing else".As for whether the Tebow "era" will be beginning soon or late... I think Tebow's going to be seeing the field a lot earlier than most in this thread expect. I think he'll be getting package plays immediately, and I think he'll be starting next year.
 
Actually, I think my post suggests more of the "middle" approach than you are thinking. My post doesn't imply that I think he is going to be a bust of Leafian proportions, I just don't think he will be very good, because I think his passing skills are below average for the NFL, and he does not offer special talent running the ball, like Michael Vick at one point did. As such, I'm not going to worry about him for fantasy purposes. I'd consider drafting/acquiring him if the price was right, but I'm sure it won't be any time soon, or possibly ever. I could see him having a career similar to Kyle Orton (in terms of overall success; I am not saying that they are similar in terms of strengths/weaknesses), which is not exactly a bust, but it would leave a lot of people in Denver (and this thread) disappointed. We really shouldn't be even referring to an "Era" for Tebow, especially since, contrary to the title of this thread, it won't be beginning for some time. We're seeing a lot of the typical shark pool fancy play mentality, where people like to go out on a perceived limb and make bold statements or predictions with little to support them for the purposes of seeming "ahead of the curve" and contrarian, hoping to get an edge on their competition. Ryan Leaf <-> my assessment <-> Revolutionize______________^ middle ^________________
Tebow's getting drafted in the 3rd round in a lot of rookie drafts. That's just stupid. The dude's a first round QB, whether you dig him or not. Lots of people let Josh Freeman slip last year because they weren't really feeling him, and it looks like that's a mistake in hindsight, too. If nothing else, pedigree like that makes Tebow worth a late second round draft pick. And again, that's an "if nothing else".As for whether the Tebow "era" will be beginning soon or late... I think Tebow's going to be seeing the field a lot earlier than most in this thread expect. I think he'll be getting package plays immediately, and I think he'll be starting next year.
If he were a high 1st round QB I might agree with you, however he was the 25th.Here are the 1st round QB taken 12th or later since 1990:
Freeman - 17Flacco - 18Quinn - 22Rodgers - 24Campbell - 25Losman - 22Boller - 18Grossman - 22Ramsey - 32Pennington - 18McCown - 12Druckenmiller - 26Maddox - 25McGwire - 16Marinowich - 24
 
Actually, I think my post suggests more of the "middle" approach than you are thinking. My post doesn't imply that I think he is going to be a bust of Leafian proportions, I just don't think he will be very good, because I think his passing skills are below average for the NFL, and he does not offer special talent running the ball, like Michael Vick at one point did. As such, I'm not going to worry about him for fantasy purposes. I'd consider drafting/acquiring him if the price was right, but I'm sure it won't be any time soon, or possibly ever. I could see him having a career similar to Kyle Orton (in terms of overall success; I am not saying that they are similar in terms of strengths/weaknesses), which is not exactly a bust, but it would leave a lot of people in Denver (and this thread) disappointed. We really shouldn't be even referring to an "Era" for Tebow, especially since, contrary to the title of this thread, it won't be beginning for some time. We're seeing a lot of the typical shark pool fancy play mentality, where people like to go out on a perceived limb and make bold statements or predictions with little to support them for the purposes of seeming "ahead of the curve" and contrarian, hoping to get an edge on their competition. Ryan Leaf <-> my assessment <-> Revolutionize______________^ middle ^________________
Tebow's getting drafted in the 3rd round in a lot of rookie drafts. That's just stupid. The dude's a first round QB, whether you dig him or not. Lots of people let Josh Freeman slip last year because they weren't really feeling him, and it looks like that's a mistake in hindsight, too. If nothing else, pedigree like that makes Tebow worth a late second round draft pick. And again, that's an "if nothing else".As for whether the Tebow "era" will be beginning soon or late... I think Tebow's going to be seeing the field a lot earlier than most in this thread expect. I think he'll be getting package plays immediately, and I think he'll be starting next year.
If he were a high 1st round QB I might agree with you, however he was the 25th.Here are the 1st round QB taken 12th or later since 1990:
Freeman - 17Flacco - 18Quinn - 22Rodgers - 24Campbell - 25Losman - 22Boller - 18Grossman - 22Ramsey - 32Pennington - 18McCown - 12Druckenmiller - 26Maddox - 25McGwire - 16Marinowich - 24
 
Actually, I think my post suggests more of the "middle" approach than you are thinking. My post doesn't imply that I think he is going to be a bust of Leafian proportions, I just don't think he will be very good, because I think his passing skills are below average for the NFL, and he does not offer special talent running the ball, like Michael Vick at one point did. As such, I'm not going to worry about him for fantasy purposes. I'd consider drafting/acquiring him if the price was right, but I'm sure it won't be any time soon, or possibly ever. I could see him having a career similar to Kyle Orton (in terms of overall success; I am not saying that they are similar in terms of strengths/weaknesses), which is not exactly a bust, but it would leave a lot of people in Denver (and this thread) disappointed. We really shouldn't be even referring to an "Era" for Tebow, especially since, contrary to the title of this thread, it won't be beginning for some time. We're seeing a lot of the typical shark pool fancy play mentality, where people like to go out on a perceived limb and make bold statements or predictions with little to support them for the purposes of seeming "ahead of the curve" and contrarian, hoping to get an edge on their competition. Ryan Leaf <-> my assessment <-> Revolutionize______________^ middle ^________________
Tebow's getting drafted in the 3rd round in a lot of rookie drafts. That's just stupid. The dude's a first round QB, whether you dig him or not. Lots of people let Josh Freeman slip last year because they weren't really feeling him, and it looks like that's a mistake in hindsight, too. If nothing else, pedigree like that makes Tebow worth a late second round draft pick. And again, that's an "if nothing else".As for whether the Tebow "era" will be beginning soon or late... I think Tebow's going to be seeing the field a lot earlier than most in this thread expect. I think he'll be getting package plays immediately, and I think he'll be starting next year.
If he were a high 1st round QB I might agree with you, however he was the 25th.Here are the 1st round QB taken 12th or later since 1990:
Freeman - 17Flacco - 18Quinn - 22Rodgers - 24Campbell - 25Losman - 22Boller - 18Grossman - 22Ramsey - 32Pennington - 18McCown - 12Druckenmiller - 26Maddox - 25McGwire - 16Marinowich - 24
 
SSOG, if he were a high 1st round QB, I would consider agreeing with you.

Have you even seen the 1st round QBs taken after pick 12 since 1990?

 
In my start 2-QB (6 points all TDs) league, I just drafted Tebow with the 2.01 pick and I was thrilled to get him there. I traded Pierre Thomas to get that pick and I think it was the perfect gamble for my squad.

Tebow is one of those guys, when all is said and done, people will think: "He was uber successful at every level he played at before the NFL, I should have seen his success coming at the next level."

You just can't measure heart and this kid's got it.

 
SSOG, I wonder about late first round picks though. Does anyone have a list of QBs taken in the 1st round after pick 12?

 
SSOG, I wonder about late first round picks though. Does anyone have a list of QBs taken in the 1st round after pick 12?
Just scroll up a few posts.Freeman - 17Flacco - 18Quinn - 22Rodgers - 24Campbell - 25Losman - 22Boller - 18Grossman - 22Ramsey - 32Pennington - 18McCown - 12Druckenmiller - 26Maddox - 25McGwire - 16Marinowich - 24
 
I have to believe that Tebow will at least be tried out as a TD vulture inside the 5 yard line this year at least for the first few games, especially if Orton is starting (which I believe will happen).

I think McDaniel needs to see what's possible with an extremely physically fit, virtually never injured, "star" - and by star, I mean an extremely popular player whether he's done anything in the NFL or not.

Inside the 5 yard line, Tebow could basically run the exact same offense that Florida did which McDaniel is familiar with and the Broncos have the personnel to execute it. Whether it's a

1) handoff left/center/right to Moreno

2) QB keeper to left/center/right by Tebow

3) Shuffle pass to TE

4) Rollout pass option to WR or keeper

5) The awkward yet effective jump pass

or

6) Tebow takes 3 steps back and drills it to a WR/TE

Florida's success rate in the last 4 years inside the 5 yard line has to be among the best in history, especially against the caliber of the defenses in the SEC.

Another interesting topic to explore: Who are the most dominant TD vultures of all time?

I know I rode Stacey Mack into the playoffs a while back (2001 or 2002) because of injuries to my other RBs. Perhaps Alstott would also be under consideration.

 
I have to believe that Tebow will at least be tried out as a TD vulture inside the 5 yard line this year at least for the first few games, especially if Orton is starting (which I believe will happen).I think McDaniel needs to see what's possible with an extremely physically fit, virtually never injured, "star" - and by star, I mean an extremely popular player whether he's done anything in the NFL or not.Inside the 5 yard line, Tebow could basically run the exact same offense that Florida did which McDaniel is familiar with and the Broncos have the personnel to execute it. Whether it's a 1) handoff left/center/right to Moreno2) QB keeper to left/center/right by Tebow3) Shuffle pass to TE4) Rollout pass option to WR or keeper5) The awkward yet effective jump passor6) Tebow takes 3 steps back and drills it to a WR/TEFlorida's success rate in the last 4 years inside the 5 yard line has to be among the best in history, especially against the caliber of the defenses in the SEC.Another interesting topic to explore: Who are the most dominant TD vultures of all time?I know I rode Stacey Mack into the playoffs a while back (2001 or 2002) because of injuries to my other RBs. Perhaps Alstott would also be under consideration.
Bettis was a big time TD vulture for the first 5 games of '04, before he became the primary RB.I'll always remember his line from the first game of that season: 5 carries, 1 yard, 3 TDsHis overall numbers of the first 5 games: 19 carries, 63 yards, 7 TDs.
 

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