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Tim Tebow - 8.17.21 Waived By Jacksonville (4 Viewers)

'The Dude said:
Actually, FC, if you read through all your posts, this thread has gone nothing like you thought it would.
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It actually has. I expected the same blind Tebow loyalty that I saw with David Carr, Garrabage and Vince Young. The 'he's a winner'. 'Look at his great comebacks'...against prevent D's. Stuff like that. All the while I looked at the actual numbers, for 4 Qs, and how the wins happened. I remember the one comment someone made about 'We now know Tebow's FF floor as far as scoring. Then he laid a solid egg, bursting that bubble. The comical comparing his FF numbers to the great QB's when they had an off week. That is still a classic.

There hasn't yet been quite the blame of everyone but the QB that I saw with Carr and Young.

Here's the deal. There are a lot of people on here who simply are like this: 'look what he did today - he's going to be great', without 1. Looking at how it happened, and 2. Is it sustainable.

The 'read option' goes the way the Wildcats did. That's just the way the NFL is. For some reason it takes them longer than it should to devise the defense to counter those novelties. It's not like the West Coast O that was developed and then modified. There's not much you can do with the read option.

The one thing I do like about it is that it is the way the offense should always line up. Shotgun with the RB right next to the QB so the D has no idea if it is run or pass. The option part doesn't work in the NFL.

 
'FavreCo said:
'The Dude said:
Actually, FC, if you read through all your posts, this thread has gone nothing like you thought it would.
Click to expand...
It actually has. I expected the same blind Tebow loyalty that I saw with David Carr, Garrabage and Vince Young. The 'he's a winner'. 'Look at his great comebacks'...against prevent D's. Stuff like that. All the while I looked at the actual numbers, for 4 Qs, and how the wins happened. I remember the one comment someone made about 'We now know Tebow's FF floor as far as scoring. Then he laid a solid egg, bursting that bubble. The comical comparing his FF numbers to the great QB's when they had an off week. That is still a classic.

There hasn't yet been quite the blame of everyone but the QB that I saw with Carr and Young.

Here's the deal. There are a lot of people on here who simply are like this: 'look what he did today - he's going to be great', without 1. Looking at how it happened, and 2. Is it sustainable.

The 'read option' goes the way the Wildcats did. That's just the way the NFL is. For some reason it takes them longer than it should to devise the defense to counter those novelties. It's not like the West Coast O that was developed and then modified. There's not much you can do with the read option.

The one thing I do like about it is that it is the way the offense should always line up. Shotgun with the RB right next to the QB so the D has no idea if it is run or pass. The option part doesn't work in the NFL.
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Regarding the read option: I think you are dead wrong. It really hasn't been stopped. It puts a tremendous amount of pressure on a defense, and as you noted, it makes runnimg out of the shotgun viable. A read option based offense has now led the league in rushing in at least 4 seasons (2011, 2004-2006) and 2 QB's: Vick and Tebow. Read option is a viable offense, and has been shown to be sustainable over multiple years.
 
I don't envy Elways position.

This year will have the fan base vastly overrating not only the QB but the overall strength of this team. He has to figure out a way to bring in a QB to legitimately challenge Tebow while also filling lots of other holes, all the while fighting a media punditry and fandom that's going to want to annoint "The Great Incompletion."

 
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'Jason Wood said:
I don't envy Elways position.This year will have the fan base vastly overrating not only the QB but the overall strength of this team. He has to figure out a way to bring in a QB to legitimately challenge Tebow while also filling lots of other holes, all the while fighting a media punditry and fandom that's going to want to annoying "The Great Incompletion."
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Good call. They have so many holes on that team and Elways can't replace Tebow for a few years because he is apparently a QB "success" now.
 
'Chaka said:
'FavreCo said:
'Chaka said:
My goodness some people are just insane in this thread. 9 of 26 for 136 yards (with only 13 yards on 5 rushes) is horrible by any measure. This was against the #31 passing defense in the league (for those who hold Pittsburgh's #1 ranking from last week as something special).My goodness Colt McCoy's worst game was still 14-22 for 148 yards and who is going to tell me Tebow has a vastly inferior supporting cast than Colt McCoy?I am not saying Tebow is awful, in fact I think he has shown a lot and has legitimate NFL QB upside, but some of you need to stop making excuses for his horrible play. He was awful tonight, that's a fact. He shows moments of brilliance but we see below average play 70% of the time supplemented with 30% brilliance. However when that brilliance fails to show up you get this type of outcome. He has shown potential but has massive work to do.He sucked tonight. Own it, Tebow lovers.ETA: I own it when he has a great game so let's see some honesty from you and stop with the blame game.
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Hey, The Tebow has them going in the right direction. Solid numbers vs a pathetic #31 ranked defense.
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Awful numbers against the #31 ranked d, excellent yardage numbers against the (depleted) #1 ranked d.These games are going to happen in the growth of a QB but I find it insane that the first few posts after the game were making excuses and blaming his supporting cast. Tebow had an awful game and it was no one's fault but Tebows. I just want to see people own that.
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You do realize that Brady threw a RECORD number of TD passes in a playoff half against what some people in this thread had been calling the "reason Denver was winning all those games".Tebow didn't perform well tonight, to be sure - but he was also down 35-7 at half and sacked 5 times (many times before he barely finished dropping back). One time he faked the handoff to McGahee and was hit instantly afterward. His defense didn't help him at all either and the Patriots were simply outstanding tonight (and I can't stand the Patriots).
 
as I said maybe 20 pages ago, QB is down the list on positions that need to be fixed. Bringing in a top QB would be meaningless when you have massive holes at every level of defense, a serious lack of depth @ WR (especially b/c Royal is a FA) and OL, and aging and often hurt RB's.

Elway won't find a QB who could play better than Tebow in 2012 in FA or the draft (Flynn is debatable, I suppose, but there is no way Broncos break the bank to replace Tebow), and because they will be drafting @ 25 or so. I think that makes things a little easier...

Elway simply won't be able to get the QB he covets just yet...maybe in 2013 we can be in the Barkley sweepstakes if Tebow fails to progress.

 
"Normally first-round picks get coddled and people make excuses for them for years. Tebow has been held to a harsher standard. I don't recall a first-rounder being treated so coolly by team management.

Headed into Saturday, 24 teams would have liked to be where the Broncos were. Give him some decent targets and a full season to see what develops."

You could say this about any young quarterback. Anyone *could *conceivably get better if the supporting cast is improved and time is allowed for development. But many young quarterbacks - Andy Dalton and Cam Newton, for instance - look far more promising than Tebow, whose deficiencies look fatal. Defensive coordinators are obviously not going to be taken by surprise anymore by the option-offense gimmickry. I've never seen so many plays blown up behind the line of scrimmage in my life. Tebow made the thirty-first ranked defense in the league look better than the '85 Bears' defense.

 
'Jericho34 said:
"Normally first-round picks get coddled and people make excuses for them for years. Tebow has been held to a harsher standard. I don't recall a first-rounder being treated so coolly by team management. Headed into Saturday, 24 teams would have liked to be where the Broncos were. Give him some decent targets and a full season to see what develops."You could say this about any young quarterback. Anyone *could *conceivably get better if the supporting cast is improved and time is allowed for development. But many young quarterbacks - Andy Dalton and Cam Newton, for instance - look far more promising than Tebow, whose deficiencies look fatal. Defensive coordinators are obviously not going to be taken by surprise anymore by the option-offense gimmickry. I've never seen so many plays blown up behind the line of scrimmage in my life. Tebow made the thirty-first ranked defense in the league look better than the '85 Bears' defense.
Click to expand...
I don't think that's the case. If JaMarcus Russell threw only two picks he'd get praised. Ryan Leaf was getting defended by management while making Tebow's stat lines look impressive. Cam Newton has records and is great for fantasy owners...but where are the wins? Doesn't matter-- as a rookie he did great and everyone's happy. Why not the same for Tebow, who actually won a playoff game?Teams coddle young QBs in the hopes they eventually turn into winners-- "losers" like Manning and Aikman get time to develop their strengths, and the team puts talent around them. Tebow has future insurance salesmen trying to catch his passes. I can't think of a worse receiving corps outside of Jacksonville. They traded their best receiver the week they made Tebow the starter. How's that for confidence?Again, that doesn't count the marketing and $$$ factor, which Newton and Dalton don't have. But just on the field, I think Tebow has been treated shabbily by the Broncos and has far exceeded expectations for any QB with less than a season's worth of starts-- especially a first-rounder.I'm not saying to excuse away his clear weaknesses. I'm just saying he should be treated like any other young QB, and by just about any standard he cemented his position as a viable starter and a guy the team should build around and see if he can't take them farther. Two wins from the Super Bowl isn't bad for a young QB.
 
'Neil Beaufort Zod said:
'Jericho34 said:
"Normally first-round picks get coddled and people make excuses for them for years. Tebow has been held to a harsher standard. I don't recall a first-rounder being treated so coolly by team management. Headed into Saturday, 24 teams would have liked to be where the Broncos were. Give him some decent targets and a full season to see what develops."You could say this about any young quarterback. Anyone *could *conceivably get better if the supporting cast is improved and time is allowed for development. But many young quarterbacks - Andy Dalton and Cam Newton, for instance - look far more promising than Tebow, whose deficiencies look fatal. Defensive coordinators are obviously not going to be taken by surprise anymore by the option-offense gimmickry. I've never seen so many plays blown up behind the line of scrimmage in my life. Tebow made the thirty-first ranked defense in the league look better than the '85 Bears' defense.
Click to expand...
I don't think that's the case. If JaMarcus Russell threw only two picks he'd get praised. Ryan Leaf was getting defended by management while making Tebow's stat lines look impressive. Cam Newton has records and is great for fantasy owners...but where are the wins? Doesn't matter-- as a rookie he did great and everyone's happy. Why not the same for Tebow, who actually won a playoff game?Teams coddle young QBs in the hopes they eventually turn into winners-- "losers" like Manning and Aikman get time to develop their strengths, and the team puts talent around them. Tebow has future insurance salesmen trying to catch his passes. I can't think of a worse receiving corps outside of Jacksonville. They traded their best receiver the week they made Tebow the starter. How's that for confidence?Again, that doesn't count the marketing and $$$ factor, which Newton and Dalton don't have. But just on the field, I think Tebow has been treated shabbily by the Broncos and has far exceeded expectations for any QB with less than a season's worth of starts-- especially a first-rounder.I'm not saying to excuse away his clear weaknesses. I'm just saying he should be treated like any other young QB, and by just about any standard he cemented his position as a viable starter and a guy the team should build around and see if he can't take them farther. Two wins from the Super Bowl isn't bad for a young QB.
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I never cease to be baffled by this emphasis on Tebow's wins, as if that shows he's a promising quarterback. Most of those games were won despite Tebow, not because of him. There's no GM in the NFL who would take Tebow over Cam Newton or Andy Dalton. There's no GM who wouldn't laugh in your face if asked the question.
 
:lmao:

Wow is he terrible. Brady had almost as many TDs as the Tebow had completions and the Tebow needed garbage time to get those last couple.

"Oh, but he's a great runner!" :lmao: 5 carries for 13 (with a long of 14!).

Poor Elway.

Can we stop worshiping this gimmick yet?

 
'moleculo said:
as I said maybe 20 pages ago, QB is down the list on positions that need to be fixed. Bringing in a top QB would be meaningless when you have massive holes at every level of defense, a serious lack of depth @ WR (especially b/c Royal is a FA) and OL, and aging and often hurt RB's.Elway won't find a QB who could play better than Tebow in 2012 in FA or the draft (Flynn is debatable, I suppose, but there is no way Broncos break the bank to replace Tebow), and because they will be drafting @ 25 or so. I think that makes things a little easier...Elway simply won't be able to get the QB he covets just yet...maybe in 2013 we can be in the Barkley sweepstakes if Tebow fails to progress.
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:goodposting:
 
'Jericho34 said:
'Neil Beaufort Zod said:
'Jericho34 said:
"Normally first-round picks get coddled and people make excuses for them for years. Tebow has been held to a harsher standard. I don't recall a first-rounder being treated so coolly by team management. Headed into Saturday, 24 teams would have liked to be where the Broncos were. Give him some decent targets and a full season to see what develops."You could say this about any young quarterback. Anyone *could *conceivably get better if the supporting cast is improved and time is allowed for development. But many young quarterbacks - Andy Dalton and Cam Newton, for instance - look far more promising than Tebow, whose deficiencies look fatal. Defensive coordinators are obviously not going to be taken by surprise anymore by the option-offense gimmickry. I've never seen so many plays blown up behind the line of scrimmage in my life. Tebow made the thirty-first ranked defense in the league look better than the '85 Bears' defense.
Click to expand...
I don't think that's the case. If JaMarcus Russell threw only two picks he'd get praised. Ryan Leaf was getting defended by management while making Tebow's stat lines look impressive. Cam Newton has records and is great for fantasy owners...but where are the wins? Doesn't matter-- as a rookie he did great and everyone's happy. Why not the same for Tebow, who actually won a playoff game?Teams coddle young QBs in the hopes they eventually turn into winners-- "losers" like Manning and Aikman get time to develop their strengths, and the team puts talent around them. Tebow has future insurance salesmen trying to catch his passes. I can't think of a worse receiving corps outside of Jacksonville. They traded their best receiver the week they made Tebow the starter. How's that for confidence?Again, that doesn't count the marketing and $$$ factor, which Newton and Dalton don't have. But just on the field, I think Tebow has been treated shabbily by the Broncos and has far exceeded expectations for any QB with less than a season's worth of starts-- especially a first-rounder.I'm not saying to excuse away his clear weaknesses. I'm just saying he should be treated like any other young QB, and by just about any standard he cemented his position as a viable starter and a guy the team should build around and see if he can't take them farther. Two wins from the Super Bowl isn't bad for a young QB.
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I never cease to be baffled by this emphasis on Tebow's wins, as if that shows he's a promising quarterback. Most of those games were won despite Tebow, not because of him. There's no GM in the NFL who would take Tebow over Cam Newton or Andy Dalton. There's no GM who wouldn't laugh in your face if asked the question.
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With all due respect, I think most GMs would tell you that wins are pretty important in keeping a fan base happy and keeping your job. Tebow deserves the same (overweighted) credit for wins and losses any other QB. Tebow didn't let Brady throw six TDs, either. You can't have it both ways, and you can't be the opposite side of the same coin as the Tebow defenders. While you might be right about Newton (who was a #1 pick instead of a late first-rounder) I think you might be comparing them as a fantasy owner, instead of a regular NFL observer. Newton needs to achieve Tebow's success; not the other way around. If Newton doesn't take the next step-- make the playoffs, win a game in the playoffs-- the team won't be satisfied with his 30+ point fantasy days. You and I might, but they won't.
 
A QBs job is not to win games, that's too much out of their control and reliant on too many other factors, their job is to lead the offense to score points; and Tebow didn't do a very good job of this this season. The Broncos offense averaged 17.07 points per game, which is good for 27th in the league. You can give him extra credit for leading scoring drives late in games, but when you look at the broad picture (i.e. the entirety of the 13 games he started), Tebow's ability to lead his offense to score points was poor at best, and arguably terrible.

Having said that, the Broncos should definitely start Tebow next year. With such a late 1st round and no obvious QBs on FA that will be clearly superior to Tebow who won't get a huge contract, starting Tebow just makes the most sense barring using him as trade bait to get RG3 which is obviously highly unlikely.

 
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'Cliff Clavin said:
:lmao:Wow is he terrible. Brady had almost as many TDs as the Tebow had completions and the Tebow needed garbage time to get those last couple. "Oh, but he's a great runner!" :lmao: 5 carries for 13 (with a long of 14!).Poor Elway. Can we stop worshiping this gimmick yet?
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Go ahead and move on. No one is stopping you.
 
'Time Kibitzer said:
A QBs job is not to win games, that's too much out of their control and reliant on too many other factors, their job is to lead the offense to score points; and Tebow didn't do a very good at doing his job this season. The Broncos offense averaged 17.07 points per game, which is good for 27th in the league. You can give him extra credit for leading scoring drives late in games, but when you look at the broad picture (i.e. the entirety of the 13 games he started), Tebow's ability to lead his offense to score points was poor at best, and arguably terrible. Having said that, the Broncos should definitely start Tebow next year. With such a late 1st round and no obvious QBs on FA that will be clearly superior to Tebow who won't get a huge contract, starting Tebow just makes the most sense barring using him as trade bait to get RG3 which is obviously highly unlikely.
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I don't disagree with this, but I am willing to give him a little leeway on the basis of scoring drives late in games and the fact that he has started 16 games in his career. Remember - it was widely known that his mechanics weren't up to NFL quality and it would take him sitting on the bench for a few years. Couple that with an incompetent coach in season 1 (talking about his QB coach - HS caliber Ben McDaniels), three head coaches in two years, and no off-season, we should have (and did) expect Tebow to struggle.People like to look at the success that Dalton had - Dalton was regarded as being the most NFL-ready QB of 2011...well, Tebow was probably the least NFL ready QB of 2010.
 
'Mile High said:
'Cliff Clavin said:
:lmao:Wow is he terrible. Brady had almost as many TDs as the Tebow had completions and the Tebow needed garbage time to get those last couple. "Oh, but he's a great runner!" :lmao: 5 carries for 13 (with a long of 14!).Poor Elway. Can we stop worshiping this gimmick yet?
Click to expand...
Go ahead and move on. No one is stopping you.
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No thanks. A :tfp: like this doesn't happen very often. I'm going to enjoy the show.
 
'Cliff Clavin said:
'Mile High said:
'Cliff Clavin said:
:lmao:Wow is he terrible. Brady had almost as many TDs as the Tebow had completions and the Tebow needed garbage time to get those last couple. "Oh, but he's a great runner!" :lmao: 5 carries for 13 (with a long of 14!).Poor Elway. Can we stop worshiping this gimmick yet?
Click to expand...
Go ahead and move on. No one is stopping you.
Click to expand...
No thanks. A :tfp: like this doesn't happen very often. I'm going to enjoy the show.
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This guy is not me but I like his style.
 
'moleculo said:
'Time Kibitzer said:
A QBs job is not to win games, that's too much out of their control and reliant on too many other factors, their job is to lead the offense to score points; and Tebow didn't do a very good at doing his job this season. The Broncos offense averaged 17.07 points per game, which is good for 27th in the league. You can give him extra credit for leading scoring drives late in games, but when you look at the broad picture (i.e. the entirety of the 13 games he started), Tebow's ability to lead his offense to score points was poor at best, and arguably terrible. Having said that, the Broncos should definitely start Tebow next year. With such a late 1st round and no obvious QBs on FA that will be clearly superior to Tebow who won't get a huge contract, starting Tebow just makes the most sense barring using him as trade bait to get RG3 which is obviously highly unlikely.
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I don't disagree with this, but I am willing to give him a little leeway on the basis of scoring drives late in games and the fact that he has started 16 games in his career. Remember - it was widely known that his mechanics weren't up to NFL quality and it would take him sitting on the bench for a few years. Couple that with an incompetent coach in season 1 (talking about his QB coach - HS caliber Ben McDaniels), three head coaches in two years, and no off-season, we should have (and did) expect Tebow to struggle.People like to look at the success that Dalton had - Dalton was regarded as being the most NFL-ready QB of 2011...well, Tebow was probably the least NFL ready QB of 2010.
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It looks to me that Tebow's mechanics will never be up to "NFL quality" due to his throwing motion. I remember he was trying the standard over the top throwing motion there for a while but it looks like he's given up on that. That doesn't mean he can't be successful though, as Philip Rivers has been outstanding in the NFL with his unique throwing motion. No doubt he still can improve and he has still yet to start very many games in his career, but people in here and in other threads on FBG have been arguing that Tebow has played well this year relative to other starting QBs even when you don't control for his lack of experience, which simply is not true imo. Tebow played poorly this season relative to other starting QBs, that's just a fact. No doubt he can still improve though.
 
'FavreCo said:
'The Dude said:
Actually, FC, if you read through all your posts, this thread has gone nothing like you thought it would.
Click to expand...
It actually has. I expected the same blind Tebow loyalty that I saw with David Carr, Garrabage and Vince Young. The 'he's a winner'. 'Look at his great comebacks'...against prevent D's. Stuff like that. All the while I looked at the actual numbers, for 4 Qs, and how the wins happened. I remember the one comment someone made about 'We now know Tebow's FF floor as far as scoring. Then he laid a solid egg, bursting that bubble. The comical comparing his FF numbers to the great QB's when they had an off week. That is still a classic.

There hasn't yet been quite the blame of everyone but the QB that I saw with Carr and Young.

Here's the deal. There are a lot of people on here who simply are like this: 'look what he did today - he's going to be great', without 1. Looking at how it happened, and 2. Is it sustainable.

The 'read option' goes the way the Wildcats did. That's just the way the NFL is. For some reason it takes them longer than it should to devise the defense to counter those novelties. It's not like the West Coast O that was developed and then modified. There's not much you can do with the read option.

The one thing I do like about it is that it is the way the offense should always line up. Shotgun with the RB right next to the QB so the D has no idea if it is run or pass. The option part doesn't work in the NFL.
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This shows your lack of football knowledge.
 
'Neil Beaufort Zod said:
'Jericho34 said:
'Neil Beaufort Zod said:
'Jericho34 said:
"Normally first-round picks get coddled and people make excuses for them for years. Tebow has been held to a harsher standard. I don't recall a first-rounder being treated so coolly by team management. Headed into Saturday, 24 teams would have liked to be where the Broncos were. Give him some decent targets and a full season to see what develops."You could say this about any young quarterback. Anyone *could *conceivably get better if the supporting cast is improved and time is allowed for development. But many young quarterbacks - Andy Dalton and Cam Newton, for instance - look far more promising than Tebow, whose deficiencies look fatal. Defensive coordinators are obviously not going to be taken by surprise anymore by the option-offense gimmickry. I've never seen so many plays blown up behind the line of scrimmage in my life. Tebow made the thirty-first ranked defense in the league look better than the '85 Bears' defense.
Click to expand...
I don't think that's the case. If JaMarcus Russell threw only two picks he'd get praised. Ryan Leaf was getting defended by management while making Tebow's stat lines look impressive. Cam Newton has records and is great for fantasy owners...but where are the wins? Doesn't matter-- as a rookie he did great and everyone's happy. Why not the same for Tebow, who actually won a playoff game?Teams coddle young QBs in the hopes they eventually turn into winners-- "losers" like Manning and Aikman get time to develop their strengths, and the team puts talent around them. Tebow has future insurance salesmen trying to catch his passes. I can't think of a worse receiving corps outside of Jacksonville. They traded their best receiver the week they made Tebow the starter. How's that for confidence?Again, that doesn't count the marketing and $$$ factor, which Newton and Dalton don't have. But just on the field, I think Tebow has been treated shabbily by the Broncos and has far exceeded expectations for any QB with less than a season's worth of starts-- especially a first-rounder.I'm not saying to excuse away his clear weaknesses. I'm just saying he should be treated like any other young QB, and by just about any standard he cemented his position as a viable starter and a guy the team should build around and see if he can't take them farther. Two wins from the Super Bowl isn't bad for a young QB.
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I never cease to be baffled by this emphasis on Tebow's wins, as if that shows he's a promising quarterback. Most of those games were won despite Tebow, not because of him. There's no GM in the NFL who would take Tebow over Cam Newton or Andy Dalton. There's no GM who wouldn't laugh in your face if asked the question.
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With all due respect, I think most GMs would tell you that wins are pretty important in keeping a fan base happy and keeping your job. Tebow deserves the same (overweighted) credit for wins and losses any other QB. Tebow didn't let Brady throw six TDs, either. You can't have it both ways, and you can't be the opposite side of the same coin as the Tebow defenders. While you might be right about Newton (who was a #1 pick instead of a late first-rounder) I think you might be comparing them as a fantasy owner, instead of a regular NFL observer. Newton needs to achieve Tebow's success; not the other way around. If Newton doesn't take the next step-- make the playoffs, win a game in the playoffs-- the team won't be satisfied with his 30+ point fantasy days. You and I might, but they won't.
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The GM won't be winning very long if he credits the wins to players who don't deserve it, whether it's the quarterback or any other position. The Bronco MVP during "Tebow's" win streak was the cushy schedule he inherited. After that would probably be Vonn Miller, Elvis Dumervil, et. al. - the key players on the Bronco Defense, who had been playing extremely well. Then you can start sorting through the remaining players...Tebow, McGahee, maybe Marion Barber and Mark Sanchez, etc. As far as fantasy bias....I don't know about your league, but Tebow has far more value in my league than he does in the real football world. Any bias created would flow in the exact opposite direction than you're suggesting. Andy Dalton was a very pedestrian fantasy quarterback, definitely less valuable than Tebow.
 
'Jericho34 said:
The GM won't be winning very long if he credits the wins to players who don't deserve it, whether it's the quarterback or any other position. The Bronco MVP during "Tebow's" win streak was the cushy schedule he inherited. After that would probably be Vonn Miller, Elvis Dumervil, et. al. - the key players on the Bronco Defense, who had been playing extremely well.
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You mean the guys who spotted Brady and Co. 35 points before the half yesterday - and allowed record number of playoff TD passes in a hlaf of football? :popcorn:

 
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'zDragon said:
'FavreCo said:
'The Dude said:
Actually, FC, if you read through all your posts, this thread has gone nothing like you thought it would.
Click to expand...
It actually has. I expected the same blind Tebow loyalty that I saw with David Carr, Garrabage and Vince Young. The 'he's a winner'. 'Look at his great comebacks'...against prevent D's. Stuff like that. All the while I looked at the actual numbers, for 4 Qs, and how the wins happened. I remember the one comment someone made about 'We now know Tebow's FF floor as far as scoring. Then he laid a solid egg, bursting that bubble. The comical comparing his FF numbers to the great QB's when they had an off week. That is still a classic.

There hasn't yet been quite the blame of everyone but the QB that I saw with Carr and Young.

Here's the deal. There are a lot of people on here who simply are like this: 'look what he did today - he's going to be great', without 1. Looking at how it happened, and 2. Is it sustainable.

The 'read option' goes the way the Wildcats did. That's just the way the NFL is. For some reason it takes them longer than it should to devise the defense to counter those novelties. It's not like the West Coast O that was developed and then modified. There's not much you can do with the read option.

The one thing I do like about it is that it is the way the offense should always line up. Shotgun with the RB right next to the QB so the D has no idea if it is run or pass. The option part doesn't work in the NFL.
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This shows your lack of football knowledge.
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Explain. Other than goal line and short yardage.The Broncos are currently at around 80% this past year.

Then there is this.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7066850/nfl-teams-detriot-lions-increasingly-rely-shotgun-formation

 
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'FavreCo said:
'zDragon said:
'FavreCo said:
'The Dude said:
Actually, FC, if you read through all your posts, this thread has gone nothing like you thought it would.
Click to expand...
It actually has. I expected the same blind Tebow loyalty that I saw with David Carr, Garrabage and Vince Young. The 'he's a winner'. 'Look at his great comebacks'...against prevent D's. Stuff like that. All the while I looked at the actual numbers, for 4 Qs, and how the wins happened. I remember the one comment someone made about 'We now know Tebow's FF floor as far as scoring. Then he laid a solid egg, bursting that bubble. The comical comparing his FF numbers to the great QB's when they had an off week. That is still a classic.

There hasn't yet been quite the blame of everyone but the QB that I saw with Carr and Young.

Here's the deal. There are a lot of people on here who simply are like this: 'look what he did today - he's going to be great', without 1. Looking at how it happened, and 2. Is it sustainable.

The 'read option' goes the way the Wildcats did. That's just the way the NFL is. For some reason it takes them longer than it should to devise the defense to counter those novelties. It's not like the West Coast O that was developed and then modified. There's not much you can do with the read option.

The one thing I do like about it is that it is the way the offense should always line up. Shotgun with the RB right next to the QB so the D has no idea if it is run or pass. The option part doesn't work in the NFL.
Click to expand...
This shows your lack of football knowledge.
Click to expand...
Explain. Other than goal line and short yardage.The Broncos are currently at around 80% this past year.

Then there is this.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7066850/nfl-teams-detriot-lions-increasingly-rely-shotgun-formation
Click to expand...
No need for me to explain. You already mentioned two reasons not to do it. All I can say is learn more about football. If you simply read the article you linked to you could see some of the issues since they are explained.

If you want to understand more about offense maybe start by looking at blocking schemes and how different formations generate different lines of force.

 
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'zDragon said:
'FavreCo said:
'zDragon said:
'FavreCo said:
'The Dude said:
Actually, FC, if you read through all your posts, this thread has gone nothing like you thought it would.
Click to expand...
It actually has. I expected the same blind Tebow loyalty that I saw with David Carr, Garrabage and Vince Young. The 'he's a winner'. 'Look at his great comebacks'...against prevent D's. Stuff like that. All the while I looked at the actual numbers, for 4 Qs, and how the wins happened. I remember the one comment someone made about 'We now know Tebow's FF floor as far as scoring. Then he laid a solid egg, bursting that bubble. The comical comparing his FF numbers to the great QB's when they had an off week. That is still a classic.

There hasn't yet been quite the blame of everyone but the QB that I saw with Carr and Young.

Here's the deal. There are a lot of people on here who simply are like this: 'look what he did today - he's going to be great', without 1. Looking at how it happened, and 2. Is it sustainable.

The 'read option' goes the way the Wildcats did. That's just the way the NFL is. For some reason it takes them longer than it should to devise the defense to counter those novelties. It's not like the West Coast O that was developed and then modified. There's not much you can do with the read option.

The one thing I do like about it is that it is the way the offense should always line up. Shotgun with the RB right next to the QB so the D has no idea if it is run or pass. The option part doesn't work in the NFL.
Click to expand...
This shows your lack of football knowledge.
Click to expand...
Explain. Other than goal line and short yardage.The Broncos are currently at around 80% this past year.

Then there is this.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7066850/nfl-teams-detriot-lions-increasingly-rely-shotgun-formation
Click to expand...
No need for me to explain. You already mentioned two reasons not to do it. All I can say is learn more about football. If you simply read the article you linked to you could see some of the issues since they are explained.

If you want to understand more about offense maybe start by looking at blocking schemes and how different formations generate different lines of force.
Click to expand...
Ok ya got me with my 'always' statement. Great job. I gotta remeber to be really clear what I am saying with you tebowners, especially on weeks when your asses get kicked bad.
 
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'FavreCo said:
Ok ya got me with my 'always' statement. Great job. I gotta remeber to be really clear what I am saying with you tebowners, especially on weeks when your asses get kicked bad.
Click to expand...
A few points if I may:1) Tebow owners didn't get anything kicked. The Broncos lost. And their defense was awful. Not to many QBs have good QB rating when they're down 35-7 at half.

2) In regards to you (and the other haters) jumping into this thread to chirp after every bad Tebow game: in this year's playoffs, Tebow's combined QB rating was 90.02. Aaron Rodgers' was 78.5. I am sure you don't want anyone to read too much into that - so don't do the same.

BTW, if anyone wants help figuring QB rating:

Here

Secondly, lest anyone think I am actually comparing Rodgers to Tebow - I am not. I am simply pointing out that judging a QB after a bad game is silly. So chirping about how "tebow owners got their asses kicked bad" after one bad road playoff game is just childish and shows a lack of understanding about football - especially after the same QB lit up the best pass defense in the league the week before for 300+ and a 125.6 QB passer rating.

 
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'FavreCo said:
'zDragon said:
'FavreCo said:
'zDragon said:
'FavreCo said:
'The Dude said:
Actually, FC, if you read through all your posts, this thread has gone nothing like you thought it would.
Click to expand...
It actually has. I expected the same blind Tebow loyalty that I saw with David Carr, Garrabage and Vince Young. The 'he's a winner'. 'Look at his great comebacks'...against prevent D's. Stuff like that. All the while I looked at the actual numbers, for 4 Qs, and how the wins happened. I remember the one comment someone made about 'We now know Tebow's FF floor as far as scoring. Then he laid a solid egg, bursting that bubble. The comical comparing his FF numbers to the great QB's when they had an off week. That is still a classic.

There hasn't yet been quite the blame of everyone but the QB that I saw with Carr and Young.

Here's the deal. There are a lot of people on here who simply are like this: 'look what he did today - he's going to be great', without 1. Looking at how it happened, and 2. Is it sustainable.

The 'read option' goes the way the Wildcats did. That's just the way the NFL is. For some reason it takes them longer than it should to devise the defense to counter those novelties. It's not like the West Coast O that was developed and then modified. There's not much you can do with the read option.

The one thing I do like about it is that it is the way the offense should always line up. Shotgun with the RB right next to the QB so the D has no idea if it is run or pass. The option part doesn't work in the NFL.
Click to expand...
This shows your lack of football knowledge.
Click to expand...
Explain. Other than goal line and short yardage.The Broncos are currently at around 80% this past year.

Then there is this.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7066850/nfl-teams-detriot-lions-increasingly-rely-shotgun-formation
Click to expand...
No need for me to explain. You already mentioned two reasons not to do it. All I can say is learn more about football. If you simply read the article you linked to you could see some of the issues since they are explained.

If you want to understand more about offense maybe start by looking at blocking schemes and how different formations generate different lines of force.
Click to expand...
Ok ya got me with my 'always' statement. Great job. I gotta remeber to be really clear what I am saying with you tebowners, especially on weeks when your asses get kicked bad.
Click to expand...
So basically you have no clue what you are saying about football or anything else.Understood.

 
'FavreCo said:
'zDragon said:
'FavreCo said:
'zDragon said:
'FavreCo said:
'The Dude said:
Actually, FC, if you read through all your posts, this thread has gone nothing like you thought it would.
Click to expand...
It actually has. I expected the same blind Tebow loyalty that I saw with David Carr, Garrabage and Vince Young. The 'he's a winner'. 'Look at his great comebacks'...against prevent D's. Stuff like that. All the while I looked at the actual numbers, for 4 Qs, and how the wins happened. I remember the one comment someone made about 'We now know Tebow's FF floor as far as scoring. Then he laid a solid egg, bursting that bubble. The comical comparing his FF numbers to the great QB's when they had an off week. That is still a classic.

There hasn't yet been quite the blame of everyone but the QB that I saw with Carr and Young.

Here's the deal. There are a lot of people on here who simply are like this: 'look what he did today - he's going to be great', without 1. Looking at how it happened, and 2. Is it sustainable.

The 'read option' goes the way the Wildcats did. That's just the way the NFL is. For some reason it takes them longer than it should to devise the defense to counter those novelties. It's not like the West Coast O that was developed and then modified. There's not much you can do with the read option.

The one thing I do like about it is that it is the way the offense should always line up. Shotgun with the RB right next to the QB so the D has no idea if it is run or pass. The option part doesn't work in the NFL.
Click to expand...
This shows your lack of football knowledge.
Click to expand...
Explain. Other than goal line and short yardage.The Broncos are currently at around 80% this past year.

Then there is this.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7066850/nfl-teams-detriot-lions-increasingly-rely-shotgun-formation
Click to expand...
No need for me to explain. You already mentioned two reasons not to do it. All I can say is learn more about football. If you simply read the article you linked to you could see some of the issues since they are explained.

If you want to understand more about offense maybe start by looking at blocking schemes and how different formations generate different lines of force.
Click to expand...
Ok ya got me with my 'always' statement. Great job. I gotta remeber to be really clear what I am saying with you tebowners, especially on weeks when your asses get kicked bad.
Click to expand...
I get & like the #### headed schtick you've cultivated over the years
 
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'HellToupee said:
'FavreCo said:
'zDragon said:
'FavreCo said:
'zDragon said:
'FavreCo said:
'The Dude said:
Actually, FC, if you read through all your posts, this thread has gone nothing like you thought it would.
Click to expand...
It actually has. I expected the same blind Tebow loyalty that I saw with David Carr, Garrabage and Vince Young. The 'he's a winner'. 'Look at his great comebacks'...against prevent D's. Stuff like that. All the while I looked at the actual numbers, for 4 Qs, and how the wins happened. I remember the one comment someone made about 'We now know Tebow's FF floor as far as scoring. Then he laid a solid egg, bursting that bubble. The comical comparing his FF numbers to the great QB's when they had an off week. That is still a classic.

There hasn't yet been quite the blame of everyone but the QB that I saw with Carr and Young.

Here's the deal. There are a lot of people on here who simply are like this: 'look what he did today - he's going to be great', without 1. Looking at how it happened, and 2. Is it sustainable.

The 'read option' goes the way the Wildcats did. That's just the way the NFL is. For some reason it takes them longer than it should to devise the defense to counter those novelties. It's not like the West Coast O that was developed and then modified. There's not much you can do with the read option.

The one thing I do like about it is that it is the way the offense should always line up. Shotgun with the RB right next to the QB so the D has no idea if it is run or pass. The option part doesn't work in the NFL.
Click to expand...
This shows your lack of football knowledge.
Click to expand...
Explain. Other than goal line and short yardage.The Broncos are currently at around 80% this past year.

Then there is this.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7066850/nfl-teams-detriot-lions-increasingly-rely-shotgun-formation
Click to expand...
No need for me to explain. You already mentioned two reasons not to do it. All I can say is learn more about football. If you simply read the article you linked to you could see some of the issues since they are explained.

If you want to understand more about offense maybe start by looking at blocking schemes and how different formations generate different lines of force.
Click to expand...
Ok ya got me with my 'always' statement. Great job. I gotta remeber to be really clear what I am saying with you tebowners, especially on weeks when your asses get kicked bad.
Click to expand...
I get & like the #### headed schtick you've cultivated over the years
Click to expand...
That's not schtick ;)
 
'moleculo said:
Did that D look like the 31st ranked D to anyone? They looked awesome to me...best D Broncos have faced all season. I've never seen so many negative plays, esp in the running game.Tebow did not play well, but I didn't think it was terrible...certainly not the worrst QB of all time as some would have you think. He played like you might expect a QB playing on the road in his 16th ever start against a belichick defense.If I were to place blame for this game, our lack of depth @safety would be #1, having a MLB who can't cover #2, an offensive line allowing massive penetration #3, coaches failing to adapt #4, depth @ WR #5, and Tebows play #6.See what I did here? I'm not absolving Tebow from blame and I'm not makimg excuses, just pointing out the larger issues. Remember - this team was 4 -12 last year, there's only so much patching up that can be done, especially w/o an offesason.I think it's funny that the Tebow haters are quick to pin wins on the team, or injured opponenets, or whatever, but pin losses on Tebow. I suppose the Tebowites do the opposite, so maybe it evens out.
Click to expand...
Tebow was horrible yesterday. Absolutely horrendous. Is the loss all on him? Of course not but his play was completely prohibitive of the Broncos being competitive. It's okay to own that, it was the end of his rookie season (even though we all know that is not entirely true but I will grant it to avoid that debate) and he shouldn't be expected to put the team on his back and carry it at this stage of his development. But that doesn't change the fact that he was absolutely turrible yesterday. Everything that is wrong with his game was clearly demonstrated and he couldn't muster his strong suits to compensate for his shortcomings either.The worst part is that McGahee was running strong early in the game and if Tebow could muster a 60% completion rate he might have been able to help sustain some drives and keep the NE offense off the field. But he couldn't even complete 40% of his passes a fact which helped kill multiple Denver drives (and demonstrates why completion % isn't the overrated stat that some in here try to make it seem).The guy has talent, there is no denying that, but he has massive flaws to work on in the off season. And it is fun to watch and makes for great copy.
 
'Jason Wood said:
I don't envy Elways position.This year will have the fan base vastly overrating not only the QB but the overall strength of this team. He has to figure out a way to bring in a QB to legitimately challenge Tebow while also filling lots of other holes, all the while fighting a media punditry and fandom that's going to want to annoint "The Great Incompletion."
Click to expand...
:goodposting:I want to believe in Tebow, I really do, but my head tells me his chances of leading this team to a Super Bowl are extremely slim. If he continues to show glimpses of greatness while being generally mediocre or worse, it's going to be tough to convince the fan base that a change is in order. The bottom line is, as fun as this season was, it could end up setting this franchise back several years at the QB position--and if they do indeed try to build around Tebow's strengths--other positions as well.
 
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'moleculo said:
Did that D look like the 31st ranked D to anyone? They looked awesome to me...best D Broncos have faced all season. I've never seen so many negative plays, esp in the running game.Tebow did not play well, but I didn't think it was terrible...certainly not the worrst QB of all time as some would have you think. He played like you might expect a QB playing on the road in his 16th ever start against a belichick defense.If I were to place blame for this game, our lack of depth @safety would be #1, having a MLB who can't cover #2, an offensive line allowing massive penetration #3, coaches failing to adapt #4, depth @ WR #5, and Tebows play #6.See what I did here? I'm not absolving Tebow from blame and I'm not makimg excuses, just pointing out the larger issues. Remember - this team was 4 -12 last year, there's only so much patching up that can be done, especially w/o an offesason.I think it's funny that the Tebow haters are quick to pin wins on the team, or injured opponenets, or whatever, but pin losses on Tebow. I suppose the Tebowites do the opposite, so maybe it evens out.
Click to expand...
The Patriots Defense gets judged a lot like Tebow. The only important stat in judging a QB for some reason when we talk about Tebow is completion percentage. It's dumb. There are a lot more important QB stats than completion percentage. When we talk about the Patriots D it doesn't matter that they don't allow a lot of points and they're one of the best in the NFL in turnovers. No the important stat when judging a defense is yards allowed.The Patriots D allowed 50 less points than Denver this year (not including the playoffs).30 point games? The Pats allowed 1 all year, Denver allowed 6.
 
'thatguy said:
'Jason Wood said:
I don't envy Elways position.This year will have the fan base vastly overrating not only the QB but the overall strength of this team. He has to figure out a way to bring in a QB to legitimately challenge Tebow while also filling lots of other holes, all the while fighting a media punditry and fandom that's going to want to annoint "The Great Incompletion."
Click to expand...
:goodposting:I want to believe in Tebow, I really do, but my head tells me his chances of leading this team to a Super Bowl are extremely slim. If he continues to show glimpses of greatness while being generally mediocre or worse, it's going to be tough to convince the fan base that a change is in order. The bottom line is, as fun as this season was, it could end up setting this franchise back several years at the QB position--and if they do indeed try to build around Tebow's strengths--other positions as well.
Click to expand...
There are so many holes to fill, I don't think letting Tebow play out another year is going to set the team back any more then they would have been without him.. From everything I have been reading there are only 2 QBs 1st round worthy and Denver had very little chance of getting either with or without Tebowmania.
 
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'Chaka said:
'moleculo said:
Did that D look like the 31st ranked D to anyone? They looked awesome to me...best D Broncos have faced all season. I've never seen so many negative plays, esp in the running game.Tebow did not play well, but I didn't think it was terrible...certainly not the worrst QB of all time as some would have you think. He played like you might expect a QB playing on the road in his 16th ever start against a belichick defense.If I were to place blame for this game, our lack of depth @safety would be #1, having a MLB who can't cover #2, an offensive line allowing massive penetration #3, coaches failing to adapt #4, depth @ WR #5, and Tebows play #6.See what I did here? I'm not absolving Tebow from blame and I'm not makimg excuses, just pointing out the larger issues. Remember - this team was 4 -12 last year, there's only so much patching up that can be done, especially w/o an offesason.I think it's funny that the Tebow haters are quick to pin wins on the team, or injured opponenets, or whatever, but pin losses on Tebow. I suppose the Tebowites do the opposite, so maybe it evens out.
Click to expand...
Tebow was horrible yesterday. Absolutely horrendous. Is the loss all on him? Of course not but his play was completely prohibitive of the Broncos being competitive. It's okay to own that, it was the end of his rookie season (even though we all know that is not entirely true but I will grant it to avoid that debate) and he shouldn't be expected to put the team on his back and carry it at this stage of his development. But that doesn't change the fact that he was absolutely turrible yesterday. Everything that is wrong with his game was clearly demonstrated and he couldn't muster his strong suits to compensate for his shortcomings either.The worst part is that McGahee was running strong early in the game and if Tebow could muster a 60% completion rate he might have been able to help sustain some drives and keep the NE offense off the field. But he couldn't even complete 40% of his passes a fact which helped kill multiple Denver drives (and demonstrates why completion % isn't the overrated stat that some in here try to make it seem).The guy has talent, there is no denying that, but he has massive flaws to work on in the off season. And it is fun to watch and makes for great copy.
Click to expand...
No, you are right. He was terrible. Let me ask you this though - on 26 attempts, 60% is 16 completions. Had Tebow completed 7 more throws than he did, would it have made a difference? I think at best, he may have put up one more TD and taken one TD off of the Pats, so at best Broncos loose 38-17. Still a blowout.
 
Imo, the biggest flaw in Tebows game right now is that he isn't checking down...at all. He isn't making the easy underneath throw. This is something that Brady makes a living on, and I don't remember Tebow doing once all season. This is what is killing his completion percentage - he tries to hit everything down-field. As further evidence, did y'all realize Tebow is tied for 3rd in the league for yards/completion? Just behind Schaub and Palmer, tied with Eli.

Now, we don't know if that is by design. It's possible that he has so little touch on the short game that he has been instructed to not throw it. I don't think that's it, because they would have simply removed all those routes from the playbook. It's gotta be more a matter of Tebow always looking deep.

He starts finding the dump-off, completion percentage goes up, sacks go down, drives stay alive. This is something that can definately be improved, IMO.

 
'moleculo said:
Imo, the biggest flaw in Tebows game right now is that he isn't checking down...at all. He isn't making the easy underneath throw. This is something that Brady makes a living on, and I don't remember Tebow doing once all season. This is what is killing his completion percentage - he tries to hit everything down-field. As further evidence, did y'all realize Tebow is tied for 3rd in the league for yards/completion? Just behind Schaub and Palmer, tied with Eli.Now, we don't know if that is by design. It's possible that he has so little touch on the short game that he has been instructed to not throw it. I don't think that's it, because they would have simply removed all those routes from the playbook. It's gotta be more a matter of Tebow always looking deep.He starts finding the dump-off, completion percentage goes up, sacks go down, drives stay alive. This is something that can definately be improved, IMO.
Click to expand...
:goodposting: Tebow's read progression seems to be:1) Look for D.Thomas/Decker deep2) RUN!!!!!(Which incidentally is the case of many young QBs - they don't go through progressions - they check 1 guy - either their favorite or thehome run, then start scrambling)This may be very correctable in the offseason.
 
'moleculo said:
Imo, the biggest flaw in Tebows game right now is that he isn't checking down...at all. He isn't making the easy underneath throw. This is something that Brady makes a living on, and I don't remember Tebow doing once all season. This is what is killing his completion percentage - he tries to hit everything down-field. As further evidence, did y'all realize Tebow is tied for 3rd in the league for yards/completion? Just behind Schaub and Palmer, tied with Eli.Now, we don't know if that is by design. It's possible that he has so little touch on the short game that he has been instructed to not throw it. I don't think that's it, because they would have simply removed all those routes from the playbook. It's gotta be more a matter of Tebow always looking deep.He starts finding the dump-off, completion percentage goes up, sacks go down, drives stay alive. This is something that can definately be improved, IMO.
Click to expand...
Is it possible, with so many defenders in the box, that the typical dumpoffs aren't there, like they would be vs. a normal offense? Not sure, I'm speculating - but against Tebow, safeties/etc... play a LOT closer to the LOS - so those short routes are going to have more defenders there, no?
 
'moleculo said:
Imo, the biggest flaw in Tebows game right now is that he isn't checking down...at all. He isn't making the easy underneath throw. This is something that Brady makes a living on, and I don't remember Tebow doing once all season. This is what is killing his completion percentage - he tries to hit everything down-field. As further evidence, did y'all realize Tebow is tied for 3rd in the league for yards/completion? Just behind Schaub and Palmer, tied with Eli.Now, we don't know if that is by design. It's possible that he has so little touch on the short game that he has been instructed to not throw it. I don't think that's it, because they would have simply removed all those routes from the playbook. It's gotta be more a matter of Tebow always looking deep.He starts finding the dump-off, completion percentage goes up, sacks go down, drives stay alive. This is something that can definately be improved, IMO.
Click to expand...
He probably can't make the check-down throw. His YPC is so high because his only hope for a completion is to toss it up deep and pray that his WRs make the catch.
 
'babydemon90 said:
'moleculo said:
Imo, the biggest flaw in Tebows game right now is that he isn't checking down...at all. He isn't making the easy underneath throw. This is something that Brady makes a living on, and I don't remember Tebow doing once all season. This is what is killing his completion percentage - he tries to hit everything down-field. As further evidence, did y'all realize Tebow is tied for 3rd in the league for yards/completion? Just behind Schaub and Palmer, tied with Eli.Now, we don't know if that is by design. It's possible that he has so little touch on the short game that he has been instructed to not throw it. I don't think that's it, because they would have simply removed all those routes from the playbook. It's gotta be more a matter of Tebow always looking deep.He starts finding the dump-off, completion percentage goes up, sacks go down, drives stay alive. This is something that can definately be improved, IMO.
Click to expand...
Is it possible, with so many defenders in the box, that the typical dumpoffs aren't there, like they would be vs. a normal offense? Not sure, I'm speculating - but against Tebow, safeties/etc... play a LOT closer to the LOS - so those short routes are going to have more defenders there, no?
Click to expand...
I don't think so. To my untrained eye watching broadcast feeds, there were plenty of outlet receivers open in the middle of the field all season.
 
Apparently what I learned from the 4 letter network this morning is that the reason for Tebow's demise is the serious lack of offensive talent around him.

Football is always a team game until Tebow plays then it is 1 guy with 50 some piece of crap around him :loco:

 
'hammerva said:
Apparently what I learned from the 4 letter network this morning is that the reason for Tebow's demise is the serious lack of offensive talent around him. Football is always a team game until Tebow plays then it is 1 guy with 50 some piece of crap around him :loco:
Click to expand...
What, they weren't pimping Lebron this morning?
 
'DoubleG said:
'FavreCo said:
Ok ya got me with my 'always' statement. Great job. I gotta remeber to be really clear what I am saying with you tebowners, especially on weeks when your asses get kicked bad.
Click to expand...
A few points if I may:1) Tebow owners didn't get anything kicked. The Broncos lost. And their defense was awful. Not to many QBs have good QB rating when they're down 35-7 at half.

2) In regards to you (and the other haters) jumping into this thread to chirp after every bad Tebow game: in this year's playoffs, Tebow's combined QB rating was 90.02. Aaron Rodgers' was 78.5. I am sure you don't want anyone to read too much into that - so don't do the same.

BTW, if anyone wants help figuring QB rating:

Here

Secondly, lest anyone think I am actually comparing Rodgers to Tebow - I am not. I am simply pointing out that judging a QB after a bad game is silly. So chirping about how "tebow owners got their asses kicked bad" after one bad road playoff game is just childish and shows a lack of understanding about football - especially after the same QB lit up the best pass defense in the league the week before for 300+ and a 125.6 QB passer rating.
Click to expand...
:own3d: Again...
 
'moleculo said:
'Chaka said:
'moleculo said:
Did that D look like the 31st ranked D to anyone? They looked awesome to me...best D Broncos have faced all season. I've never seen so many negative plays, esp in the running game.Tebow did not play well, but I didn't think it was terrible...certainly not the worrst QB of all time as some would have you think. He played like you might expect a QB playing on the road in his 16th ever start against a belichick defense.If I were to place blame for this game, our lack of depth @safety would be #1, having a MLB who can't cover #2, an offensive line allowing massive penetration #3, coaches failing to adapt #4, depth @ WR #5, and Tebows play #6.See what I did here? I'm not absolving Tebow from blame and I'm not makimg excuses, just pointing out the larger issues. Remember - this team was 4 -12 last year, there's only so much patching up that can be done, especially w/o an offesason.I think it's funny that the Tebow haters are quick to pin wins on the team, or injured opponenets, or whatever, but pin losses on Tebow. I suppose the Tebowites do the opposite, so maybe it evens out.
Click to expand...
Tebow was horrible yesterday. Absolutely horrendous. Is the loss all on him? Of course not but his play was completely prohibitive of the Broncos being competitive. It's okay to own that, it was the end of his rookie season (even though we all know that is not entirely true but I will grant it to avoid that debate) and he shouldn't be expected to put the team on his back and carry it at this stage of his development. But that doesn't change the fact that he was absolutely turrible yesterday. Everything that is wrong with his game was clearly demonstrated and he couldn't muster his strong suits to compensate for his shortcomings either.The worst part is that McGahee was running strong early in the game and if Tebow could muster a 60% completion rate he might have been able to help sustain some drives and keep the NE offense off the field. But he couldn't even complete 40% of his passes a fact which helped kill multiple Denver drives (and demonstrates why completion % isn't the overrated stat that some in here try to make it seem).The guy has talent, there is no denying that, but he has massive flaws to work on in the off season. And it is fun to watch and makes for great copy.
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No, you are right. He was terrible. Let me ask you this though - on 26 attempts, 60% is 16 completions. Had Tebow completed 7 more throws than he did, would it have made a difference? I think at best, he may have put up one more TD and taken one TD off of the Pats, so at best Broncos loose 38-17. Still a blowout.
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Broncos still lose. No doubt about it. But this isn't just about one game now, is it? Being able to sustain drives and eat up clock will be a net positive for the Broncos going forward.
 
I think the Broncos are going to be a fascinating case study for what the NFL is today. Will the owner and front office lean more towards business or football? I say that because having seen what Tebow does to my circle of friends, almost all from church, it's clear he has sparked something where people that have no interest in football at all were rooting for him and watching. I have to think that this will transalte into a ton of revenue and possibly open up some different markets. Denver can promote him as a true role model that doesn't have the bad past or criminal record that many in sports do, religion aside - although separating him from religion is really impossible.

But on the football side, they have a really tough decision to make. If they go with Tim for next year or even a few years, then I would think they have to structure the entire team around him. You can't have a backup that is a true pocket passer to go along with offensive skill positions that work with Tebow's method of playing. You need to load up on RB's and FB's, O-lineman that predominately run block and if they have pass blocking holes that will be ok. I'm guessing WR's that can ad-lib a lot and run block like Hines Ward on speed. I just don't know if you build the team like a typical football team, but then have Tim as your QB. And if you work around him, then you are stuck in that way of doing things. Even if you do it for a year, if it fails, and you want to make a change, what did you do to your cap in that year, or who did you pass up because his skill set didn't match what you needed for Tebow.

It will be, next to Manning, the most interesting off season in the NFL I think.

 
'Spanky24 said:
'DoubleG said:
'FavreCo said:
Ok ya got me with my 'always' statement. Great job. I gotta remeber to be really clear what I am saying with you tebowners, especially on weeks when your asses get kicked bad.
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A few points if I may:1) Tebow owners didn't get anything kicked. The Broncos lost. And their defense was awful. Not to many QBs have good QB rating when they're down 35-7 at half.

2) In regards to you (and the other haters) jumping into this thread to chirp after every bad Tebow game: in this year's playoffs, Tebow's combined QB rating was 90.02. Aaron Rodgers' was 78.5. I am sure you don't want anyone to read too much into that - so don't do the same.

BTW, if anyone wants help figuring QB rating:

Here

Secondly, lest anyone think I am actually comparing Rodgers to Tebow - I am not. I am simply pointing out that judging a QB after a bad game is silly. So chirping about how "tebow owners got their asses kicked bad" after one bad road playoff game is just childish and shows a lack of understanding about football - especially after the same QB lit up the best pass defense in the league the week before for 300+ and a 125.6 QB passer rating.
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:own3d: Again...
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It's been more than one bad game.
 
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