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***OFFICIAL 'The Walking Dead' TV Series Thread*** (3 Viewers)

(HULK) said:
You might want to rewatch.  They literally have the same deal.

Its now a gang war between nicer gang and meaner gang.

I don't have a problem with the decision to move forward, it seemed necessary.  But they're not good guys anymore.  Not on this path.
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This very debate is the whole point.

 
(HULK) said:
You might want to rewatch.  They literally have the same deal.

Its now a gang war between nicer gang and meaner gang.

I don't have a problem with the decision to move forward, it seemed necessary.  But they're not good guys anymore.  Not on this path.
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"good" is subjective here, but Rick's group isn't using fear-based tactics (AKA terrorism) to extort food.

 
packersfan said:
He seemed like a good guy but they had only met him a few hours before. He definitely was a stranger to the group. 
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Yes, he's a literal stranger, but that wasn't the point.  He belonged to a group of people helping his son and was willing to put himself at risk to get medication.  Rick doesn't just shoot him and leave him to die.

 
Morgan is building a cell, much like the cell Morgan himself was in. It is for Rick.  Morgan does not like the man Rick has become, it reminds him of himself before the cell changed him. He wants to change Rick.  It won't happen, and Rick will kill Morgan.

 
(HULK) said:
You might want to rewatch.  They literally have the same deal.

Its now a gang war between nicer gang and meaner gang.

I don't have a problem with the decision to move forward, it seemed necessary.  But they're not good guys anymore.  Not on this path.
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How can you say its the same deal.

Nunan's Group - Give us 1/2 of what you own or we kill you all and take everything;

Rick's Group - Give us 1/2 of what you own and we'll save the person being held hostage, eliminate the threat of total servitude you're under and we will become trade partners with you.   

We're not talking tomatoe tomahto here.

 
SacramentoBob said:
Yes, he's a literal stranger, but that wasn't the point.  He belonged to a group of people helping his son and was willing to put himself at risk to get medication.  Rick doesn't just shoot him and leave him to die.
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Even if it that decisions means the baby definitely dies? I'm not so sure. I think he's willing to go Full Shane if he has no other choice. 

 
Rick's group just prevented an assassination attempt and are going to dole out justice on the perpetrators (who already attempted to hijack and threatened to kill Abraham/Daryl and co).

#STILLTHEGOODGUYS

 
packersfan said:
Even if it that decisions means the baby definitely dies? I'm not so sure. I think he's willing to go Full Shane if he has no other choice. 
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Rick would do whatever he could to make sure him and Otis could get out alive.  If that somehow proved impossible, he wouldn't just shoot him in the leg to use as bait so he can die a horrific death.

 
SacramentoBob said:
Rick would do whatever he could to make sure him and Otis could get out alive.  If that somehow proved impossible, he wouldn't just shoot him in the leg to use as bait so he can die a horrific death.
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Fair enough. I think has evolved to the point where he'd go Full Shane in a blink if he needed to. 

 
packersfan said:
Fair enough. I think has evolved to the point where he'd go Full Shane in a blink if he needed to. 
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fullretard.jpg


 
cstu said:
BigJim® said:
LOL at absurd depiction of uncertainty from some of the posters today. So if I get this straight, (1) the bikers' own statements of who they were and what they intended were not to be believed, and (2) Rick's crew got second hand information about the situation at Hilltop rather than personally experiencing the attempted murder of Gregory and hearing first hand its reason? Ok, if that's where you are starting from I agree Rick & gang are 100% out of line. But I don't think those are the facts most viewers absorbed. How can you possibly accept the legit uncertainty you are suggesting when the guards at the facility released a hostage after being handed Gregory's head? You thought to yourself, "Wait a sec, these might actually be good dudes"?
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:lol:

Forgot about that - there's your smoking gun, folks.
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kentric said:
How can you say its the same deal.

Nunan's Group - Give us 1/2 of what you own or we kill you all and take everything;

Rick's Group - Give us 1/2 of what you own and we'll save the person being held hostage, eliminate the threat of total servitude you're under and we will become trade partners with you.   

We're not talking tomatoe tomahto here.
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bigbottom said:
They had agreed to save the Hilltop resident being held hostage.  The head needed to be delivered to make that happen.  There wasn't time to be waiting a week to scout the situation.
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I agree with all of these posts. I see no problem with 1) them already thinking Negan is evil with everything they've seen/heard so far, 2) the comments that the deals weren't even remotely close and 3) them taking advantage of the exchange to start the attack (surveillance is great, but Negan's crew is heavily armed and they needed a clean way in and it worked).

 
FUBAR said:
apparently Woz.

but he's an idiot.  sorry, that wasn't being excellent to each other. 

hopefully Woz understands that killing a known terrorist (go ahead and argue that not all ISIS members are terrorists) while sleeping is perfectly legal. 
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The question isn't whether it's legal. 

 
FUBAR said:
fair enough. 

It also isn't evil to kill known terrorists.  But obviously that's a personal, subjective judgment. 
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Agreed.  But, to you apparently, if a person's subjective judgment doesn't matter yours than that person's an idiot.  Seems reasonable.  

 
BigJim® said:
LOL at absurd depiction of uncertainty from some of the posters today. So if I get this straight, (1) the bikers' own statements of who they were and what they intended were not to be believed, and (2) Rick's crew got second hand information about the situation at Hilltop rather than personally experiencing the attempted murder of Gregory and hearing first hand its reason? Ok, if that's where you are starting from I agree Rick & gang are 100% out of line. But I don't think those are the facts most viewers absorbed. How can you possibly accept the legit uncertainty you are suggesting when the guards at the facility released a hostage after being handed Gregory's head? You thought to yourself, "Wait a sec, these might actually be good dudes"?
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Not even close to what I was saying. Good guys?  I probably still attack, I'm just smarter about it. 

I think it's proof of a rushed plan when your two lookouts get captured because you haven't taken the time to figure out what is going on around you:

1- Is this their only camp? Apparently not since Negans not there. 

2- How many of them are there?  Gee I dunno. 

3- Did you scan the radio frequencies to see if they are communicating? 

4- Do we really need to sneak up at night or can we just take them all out with one RPG?  

 
Spike said:
Calling it here - Neagan (with no possible loophole) kills Glenn in the season finale.
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Can't see how this doesn't happen.  They already "tested the waters" with Glenn's possible death, it's in the comics, and there will surely be a "bigger" character offed in the finale.  All signs are pointing to Glenn, especially with his recent "change".

 
tonydead said:
Not even close to what I was saying. Good guys?  I probably still attack, I'm just smarter about it. 

I think it's proof of a rushed plan when your two lookouts get captured because you haven't taken the time to figure out what is going on around you:

1- Is this their only camp? Apparently not since Negans not there. 

2- How many of them are there?  Gee I dunno. 

3- Did you scan the radio frequencies to see if they are communicating? 

4- Do we really need to sneak up at night or can we just take them all out with one RPG?  
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Not sure why you think I was replying to you, based on the content of my post. I think it was clear what topic matter I was replying to.

 
packersfan said:
As I said, maybe they were lying. But they were absolutely going to kill one or two or maybe even all three of them. They had become a threat and they referenced their leader who in a completely unrelated event had been identified as a serious threat by other people who had no knowledge whatsoever of what had happened to Daryl, Abe and Sasha. I think there's enough to go on and make a plan of attack to prevent yourself from being attacked which as Rick points out is going to happen. It always does. 
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Uh, Negans men straight up said they were going to kill one as a message and then the other two were going to lead them back to Alexandria. Why is this even a debate? #### those guys. Kill em. 

 
I hope something turns Morgan around.  The character/actor is too good to waste.

 
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I think Rick's group taking half from the Hilltop was a one time thing, not an ongoing deal. So it's not like Hilltop is replacing one extortionist group for another.

I always read the name Negan as Naygen in the comics. It annoys me that he's called Neegan...that's my complaint for the week.

 
SacramentoBob said:
Yes, he's a literal stranger, but that wasn't the point.  He belonged to a group of people helping his son and was willing to put himself at risk to get medication.  Rick doesn't just shoot him and leave him to die.
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We talking about the same Otis who shot Carl in the first place, right?

 
Neagan will setup to kill Glenn, he will be all lined up ready to die, screen goes black - end of this season.

Next season picks up right there, a walker will wander in at the last second and get killed in his place.

 
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Loan Sharks said:
Uh, Negans men straight up said they were going to kill one as a message and then the other two were going to lead them back to Alexandria. Why is this even a debate?  
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It isn't in my opinion. I said I believe there was more than enough info available for Rick to make the decision he did.  

 
nirad3 said:
Can't see how this doesn't happen.  They already "tested the waters" with Glenn's possible death, it's in the comics, and there will surely be a "bigger" character offed in the finale.  All signs are pointing to Glenn, especially with his recent "change".
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Been saying it all along - Maggie is going to die.

Let's be honest here - does anyone want to see Maggie turned into nothing but a mom on the show? Because that's what she'll be if they keep her alive.

Also, comic book readers should remember that pregnant Lori was killed by the Governor. Negan killing a pregnant Maggie would be an allusion to that.
 
The General said:
Neagan will setup to kill Glenn, he will be all lined up ready to die, screen goes black - end of this season.

Next season picks up right there, a walker will wander in at the last second and get killed in his place.
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Sounds good to me. I like Glenn. I don't wanna see his face get bashed in. 

 
Zow said:
Agreed.  But, to you apparently, if a person's subjective judgment doesn't matter yours than that person's an idiot.  Seems reasonable.  
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Honest question - would you feel evil if you killed these men in their sleep knowing they'd kill your entire family if they didn't get what they wanted?

 
FUBAR said:
"good" is subjective here, but Rick's group isn't using fear-based tactics (AKA terrorism) to extort food.
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Offering to do a job in exchange for something isn't extortion, it's a trade. From the beginning Gregory was acting tough but he was desperate for help. He acted like Maggie was a tough negotiator but the truth is that he would have handed over everything Hilltop owned in exchange for killing Negan.

 
jamny said:
I think Rick's group taking half from the Hilltop was a one time thing, not an ongoing deal. So it's not like Hilltop is replacing one extortionist group for another.

I always read the name Negan as Naygen in the comics. It annoys me that he's called Neegan...that's my complaint for the week.
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Right...you'd have figured he would have changed his name to like Spike or Butch or Buck or something tough sounding after the world went to hell.  Neegan sounds like some lame accountant. 

 
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I don't see how anyone would take the moral high ground in condemning Rick and Co. in their move to pre-emptively take a chance to take out Neegan. If Rick's only association with the guy was a secondhand story from Hilltop....then yeah, I could see the moral quandry.  But since the motorcycle incident was first-hand and a clear declaration of Neegan's intentions.....it's a self-preservation no brainer. 

 
cstu said:
Offering to do a job in exchange for something isn't extortion, it's a trade. From the beginning Gregory was acting tough but he was desperate for help. He acted like Maggie was a tough negotiator but the truth is that he would have handed over everything Hilltop owned in exchange for killing Negan.
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I got the sense Gregory was feeling pretty good about himself in his big, clean house and was feeling pretty untouchable. But after the guy stuck a knife in his gut he was a lot more vulnerable. Maggie saw that and swooped in for the kill. 

 
packersfan said:
I think it'd be boring if there wasn't some kind of internal moral debate about how to best live in this world. 
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This is true, but it would be much better if it wasn't an over the top caricature of each side.  It doesn't need to be "let's kill everything and everyone for any reason" vs. "we must not do any harm and will never take a life no matter how many times it costs the lives of our friends".

Rick vs. Shane was great because they were both believably on their own side of the fence.  Rick would still kill when he needed to.  Morgan, kind of like Tyreese before him is just over the top preachy and dumb about it.

 
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