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Is Forsett an Ascendant Talent? (1 Viewer)

Bob Magaw

Footballguy
six minutes - i'll highlight some of the highlights... :)

a synoptic overview, exec summary of some of his winning traits... nice vision and instincts and the patience typically seen in a more mature RB (in a related note, seems to be adept at the timing required for screens)... doesn't dance too much, decisive and has the quick feet to get through the hole and into the second level in a hurry... short doesn't mean not strong... very hard for one defender to bring him down, clearly has excellent lower body strength and the gyroscopic contact balance (and toughness?) good RBs have (payton and sanders two of the best i saw... jim brown, emmit smith, earl campbell, bo jackson were also obviously great)... when he does go down, it is nearly always FORWARD...

edit/add - on the last part, it should be kept in mind that these are his HIGHLIGHTS! :) if we compiled a lowlight reel, we might see him backed up a bit more (perhaps some SEA homers can shed light on how good a job he does avoiding negative plays)... he had a poor outing in the run game against MIN (less than 10 yards in 8-9 carries)... they make a lot of RBs look bad, but not usually THAT bad (i think he compensated with 80 receiving yards?)... it could also speak to an OL in tatters in '09... if carroll gets that upgraded (okung, etc.), forsett could actually have upside in 2010 (and beyond?)...

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2010/5/31/149546...tt-is-a-ferrari

:18 - nice demonstration of his westbrook/rice/MJD-LIKE (not identical, but ASPECTS of his game reminiscent in some ways) size/leverage-power ratio... takes like seven 49er defenders to bring him down (including missed tackles)... near the end, he drags a DL (#91) an extra few yards...

4:20 - nice RAC on a weaving 40+ yard screen reception, highlights some of the above traits...

4:40 - absolutely fakes the TB safety (tanard jackson?) out of his jock, and gets another approx 25 yards after the missed open field tackle... definite "phone booth" quicks... he makes a couple head feints before he sticks his foot in the ground... even in slow mo (two replays), it is hard to see if it is a double or triple feint, he is moving so quickly... extremely shifty and elusive, great stop start and cutting ability, lateral agility, etc...

5:09 - on an inside run, about 10 yards downfield, four GB defenders converge on him, somehow he stays upright, and drags a defender for another four yards or so...

5:42 - fakes first titans defender out badly (#37?) who otherwise might have stopped him around the LOS for no gain, despite being in very close quarters and practically having to jump out of the tackle... THAN pressed the second defender (#23, michael griffin?) before jetting laterally to escape him, nearly getting a TD from the 19 yard line...

more to follow (feel free to add your own observations/insights/commentary)...

* an big X-factor will be how good the draft was (looked like one of the best in the league), and how fast the top three picks get up to speed... okung and tate could help the offense a lot, as will thomas on the back end of the defense... tatupu was missed and is back, and he & hawthorne will get to be in the starting lineup at the same time (back seven could be running for their lives, as the DL looks bad)...

 
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I like Forsett. My concerns are:

A. Crappy team means less opportunity

2. New system/coach with Carroll

D. Availability of Lynch

D could easily go away, or never happen. The luxury of time before the season starts will answer that. The other two aren't really changeable. If I'm in need of a RB in the sixth, I'll flip a coin between Forsett and Spiller.

 
Wow, he's really good about slipping a tackle in the middle of the line, either while maintaining his speed or with amazing acceleration to get back to top speed quickly.

 
I'm a forsett owner but had not seen much of him. After watching that I'm pretty impressed with his vision, but severely underwhelmed by his speed.

He looked a lot like Warrick Dunn to me.

 
Wow, he's really good about slipping a tackle in the middle of the line, either while maintaining his speed or with amazing acceleration to get back to top speed quickly.
You see it at 0:49, 0:59, 1:50, 2:00, 4:40 with a linebacker, 5:30, and something similar at 4:20 on a screen run.
 
I'm a forsett owner but had not seen much of him. After watching that I'm pretty impressed with his vision, but severely underwhelmed by his speed. He looked a lot like Warrick Dunn to me.
westbrook best example i can think off the top of my head of a RB with the incredible quickness (and functional, PLAYING speed) to more than overcome lack of track speed in shorts... since runs are rarely 40 yards in a straight line, where he would be at an extreme disadvantage (julius peppers might track him down that way), his superior stop start ability, and ability to get back to speed quickly (few strides?) puts defenders in HIS world... where the "race" is series of several 5-10 yard sprints (often in different directions)...edit/add - of course, westbrook was/is bigger, and presumably stronger... forsett a listed 5'8" 195 lbs. (?), westbrook was i think about 5'8" and reportedly played at 208 lbs. a few years ago... dunn may not be a bad comp, though maybe i think of it as more of a compliment than you... he had some good years in TB & ATL... dunn might have been a little taller, and was lighter (under 190?)...
 
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Wow, he's really good about slipping a tackle in the middle of the line, either while maintaining his speed or with amazing acceleration to get back to top speed quickly.
You see it at 0:49, 0:59, 1:50, 2:00, 4:40 with a linebacker, 5:30, and something similar at 4:20 on a screen run.
nice work, tick... thanx...i did OP in stages, also highlighted plays at 4:20 & 4:40... :lmao:
 
I'm a forsett owner but had not seen much of him. After watching that I'm pretty impressed with his vision, but severely underwhelmed by his speed. He looked a lot like Warrick Dunn to me.
westbrook best example i can think off the top of my head of a RB with the incredible quickness (and functional, PLAYING speed) to more than overcome lack of track speed in shorts... since runs are rarely 40 yards in a straight line, where he would be at an extreme disadvantage (julius peppers might track him down that way), his superior stop start ability, and ability to get back to speed quickly (few strides?) puts defenders in HIS world... where the "race" is series of several 5-10 yard sprints (often in different directions)...edit/add - of course, westbrook was/is bigger, and presumably stronger... forsett a listed 5'8" 195 lbs. (?), westbrook was i think about 5'8" and reportedly played at 208 lbs. a few years ago... dunn may not be a bad comp, though maybe i think of it as more of a compliment than you... he had some good years in TB & ATL... dunn might have been a little taller, and was lighter (under 190?)...
I thought about Westbrook too but he had an uncanny ability to score once he got through the first line and into the open field. I didn't see that in that highlight reel (which admittedly is not a lot to go on). Also I meant the Dunn comparison as a compliment. I liked Dunn a lot in his time in ATL. I see them as similar undersized guys who do a lot with a little and rely on their quicks. Like Dunn though, I saw runs where the top tier of guys wouldve housed it.
 
I'm a forsett owner but had not seen much of him. After watching that I'm pretty impressed with his vision, but severely underwhelmed by his speed. He looked a lot like Warrick Dunn to me.
westbrook best example i can think off the top of my head of a RB with the incredible quickness (and functional, PLAYING speed) to more than overcome lack of track speed in shorts... since runs are rarely 40 yards in a straight line, where he would be at an extreme disadvantage (julius peppers might track him down that way), his superior stop start ability, and ability to get back to speed quickly (few strides?) puts defenders in HIS world... where the "race" is series of several 5-10 yard sprints (often in different directions)...edit/add - of course, westbrook was/is bigger, and presumably stronger... forsett a listed 5'8" 195 lbs. (?), westbrook was i think about 5'8" and reportedly played at 208 lbs. a few years ago... dunn may not be a bad comp, though maybe i think of it as more of a compliment than you... he had some good years in TB & ATL... dunn might have been a little taller, and was lighter (under 190?)...
I thought about Westbrook too but he had an uncanny ability to score once he got through the first line and into the open field. I didn't see that in that highlight reel (which admittedly is not a lot to go on). Also I meant the Dunn comparison as a compliment. I liked Dunn a lot in his time in ATL. I see them as similar undersized guys who do a lot with a little and rely on their quicks. Like Dunn though, I saw runs where the top tier of guys wouldve housed it.
your observation was balanced (impressed with vision, not with speed), don't know why i interpreted your take on dunn that way, since that context wasn't there...westbrook is an interesting case study (if not exact comp, as already noted above, he was/is bigger, stronger... i should have added, & probably more eplosive)... even though he evolved into a "feature" RB, PHI was protective of him in terms of his carries (if not always touches) for a good part of the stat of his career, using him in a heavy rotation with the likes of duce staley and later, correll buckhalter (when he wasn't suffering one of his torn ACLs)... westbrook didn't get more than 177 carries until his fifth season, and had 7 rushing TDs three times and 3 rushing TDs twice after his rookie year, before getting a career high 9 in his seventh year... he did do a lot of damage as a faulk-like receiving weapon coming out of the backfield... 4-6 receiving TDs like punching a clock, from his second-seventh years... in receptions, from years three-seven (73, 61, 77, 90, 54)...
 
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Ascendant Talent....what a curious way to describe Forsett.

I remember one of the hottest threads last year described Miles Austin an "ascendant talent". That should have been copyrighted or something.

In any case, the Seattle offense does not have the weapons necessary for Forsett to have that type of year. I'll agree he's value at current ADP, that isn't overstating the talent however.

 
This is a fan posting at fieldgulls, but it's indicative of the level of football savvy there. The guy who runs it is a great learning resource, though you do have to learn it in regards to Seahawks games. he does seriously detailed breakdowns of games and despite being a homer is extremely objective. Or maybe they just sucked so badly the last few years that it seemed balanced because there was so much bad to look at.

Not trying to plug the site but if you're a football breakdowner then it's a good weekly read.

 
This is a fan posting at fieldgulls, but it's indicative of the level of football savvy there. The guy who runs it is a great learning resource, though you do have to learn it in regards to Seahawks games. he does seriously detailed breakdowns of games and despite being a homer is extremely objective. Or maybe they just sucked so badly the last few years that it seemed balanced because there was so much bad to look at. Not trying to plug the site but if you're a football breakdowner then it's a good weekly read.
Did you mean to provide a link?
 
the addition of Alex Gibbs leading the OL has to help ... same with the drafting of Okung considering the way Walter Jones played last year. Forsett has seen his ADP skyrocket the last three weeks. By mid August, I suspect he will be drafted in the early fifth round ... or earlier

 
Ascendant Talent....what a curious way to describe Forsett.I remember one of the hottest threads last year described Miles Austin an "ascendant talent". That should have been copyrighted or something.In any case, the Seattle offense does not have the weapons necessary for Forsett to have that type of year. I'll agree he's value at current ADP, that isn't overstating the talent however.
by ascendant, i meant could be getting better, on the way up (this is only his third year, much of the little action he has seen came last year, he has never really started in the NFL for an extended time... it is possible he is better than some realize, not because others aren't smart, but if he starts this year, it will be the first time, and nobody really knows how he will do, not even carroll or forsett)... ascendant, in the (possibly imperfect) sense i sometimes mean it, can also refer to context and circumstances... he could be so in terms of situation, in the sense that it sounds like he has a shot to start, where i don't really recall that being as much the case this time last year... i'm not counting on a miles austin-like impact, in the sense of emerging as one of the top RBs in the league...not sure what kind of year he can't have, since i didn't really get too specific on what kind of year he can or will have...but again, by ascendant, my intent wasn't to connote one of the best in the league...the nice thing about breaking down highlights... sometimes confusion can arise from language, labels, when unchecked with observation... everybody can see for themselves, and note what they do or don't like about his game... i think it would be helpful do more threads like this...SEE - THINK - WRITE - EXCHANGE/COLLABORATE (which feeds back into later observations, you can notice things you missed first time, but alerted to by others)...one question... since forsett had his moments last year when given the opportunity, if the team is better this year, that could bode well (again, not implying by that i think he has top 3-5 upside)... okung and tate could be upgrades... okung could help protect hasselbeck better, etc...i meant to say it upthread, but one thing i like about forsett... i think his redraft ADP is around RB30 (not sure about dynasty)... if he starts, that makes him one of he worst ranked/graded starting NFL RBs in the league for fantasy purposes, and presumably worse than several RBBC RB2s... i think he could definitely have upside from that...another thing i like... he is a RB that in some leagues can be gotten as RB3-RB4 (depending on size of league, competitiveness, etc)... could be an injury hedge, or matchup spot starter... in NFC west, SF pretty good defense, but ARI nothing special, and STL one of the worst in the league...* SIDEBAR...forsett tied 4th in the league in 2009 with 5.4 YPC (on about 150 carries?)...the two highest were jamaal charles and felix jones (5.9)... charles was more impressive than jones (or forsett), as he had more sustained success... jones goes higher than forsett, and charles a lot higher...as to relative supporting cast, surrounding talent, felix jones is obviously looking good... you could make a strong case that DAL might have the best across the board talent at QB, RB (3), WR (3-4) & TE (2) in the league (also factoring in OL talent)... KC is a question mark... new OC in weiss... the OL could be better... thomas jones, mccluster & moeaki all could help, and arenas should give the ST a lift = better field position... i thought suh and berry were the two really transcendant defensive talents in this draft, so berry could definitely elevate the defense to the point where it could impact on field position, also, imo...
 
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This is why I've been as high on him as I have since before he was drafted, he plummeted because he isn't big and doesn't run fast in a straight line. Maybe cases like Forsett will get teams to recognize the flaws in their evaluation techniques...but probably not.

 
This is a fan posting at fieldgulls, but it's indicative of the level of football savvy there. The guy who runs it is a great learning resource, though you do have to learn it in regards to Seahawks games. he does seriously detailed breakdowns of games and despite being a homer is extremely objective. Or maybe they just sucked so badly the last few years that it seemed balanced because there was so much bad to look at.

Not trying to plug the site but if you're a football breakdowner then it's a good weekly read.
for somebody who asked for it, article link was in OP, below is home link...http://www.fieldgulls.com/

good point arch, i read sometimes widely and sometimes not, not always the same sources, so at times i overlook/forget some hidden gems...

this site is without a doubt one of the best homer sites, in terms of insight... maybe the best... i have had occasion to visit it before, in covering SEA defense (as well as ARI & STL lately) from NFC west...

#1 or #2 for me would be also have to include on a short list of the best of the best homer sites i have run across... rafael vela (blogging the boys?) for DAL intel and original thinking, incisive stats, historical perpspective, etc.

any other especially noteworthy homer sites?

 
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What stands out about Forsett to me are his low center of gravity, good balance, and great vision & anticipation.

He's nowhere near the level of Emmitt Smith, so don't take this the wrong way; but his running style reminds me a bit of Emmitt's. He's very efficient in not wasting any steps. His anticipation allows him to play quicker than he really is.

 
What stands out about Forsett to me are his low center of gravity, good balance, and great vision & anticipation.He's nowhere near the level of Emmitt Smith, so don't take this the wrong way; but his running style reminds me a bit of Emmitt's. He's very efficient in not wasting any steps. His anticipation allows him to play quicker than he really is.
great points, and thanx for weighing in, maurile, your input is always appreciated...some of the things pro athletes do are amazing...one of my favorite plays in all sports was when magic johnson would thread the needle from three quarters of the court with a pinpoint accurate bounce pass between 2-3 defenders, hitting a steaking worthy in stride for a dunk-punctuated fast break...in this context, high degree of difficulty for a QB throwing through OL, defenders, between levels of defense... very hard to do at a high level, those types almost seem to be wired differently than nearly everybody else... a RB has to not just run to daylight... but where the daylight WILL BE in a fraction of a second... a moving picture/target, unfolding and evolving in time, as they have to weave through a maze or thicket of 21 other players, going in different directions, at different relative speeds, some blocked, about to be, or not...jaws talks about QBs that proces information quickly, but RBs do this, too... overlaps with trait names like vision, instincts, but essentially the same... some players just see it faster, and some have reflexes to translate what they see into action faster (rarely, some have both)...like you, don't get me wrong, but though 20 lbs lighter, i see a little bit of priest holmes in that he usually seems to find the hole and generally is moving in the right direction...
 
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What stands out about Forsett to me are his low center of gravity, good balance, and great vision & anticipation.He's nowhere near the level of Emmitt Smith, so don't take this the wrong way; but his running style reminds me a bit of Emmitt's. He's very efficient in not wasting any steps. His anticipation allows him to play quicker than he really is.
I would agree with this analogy. Emmitt had outstanding vision, anticipating blocks and Forsett reminds me of that kind of running style. Like you mentioned, not wasting steps and usually falling forward. He's a solid pass catcher as well, in games where Seattle is well behind, Forsett is not like a Michael Turner where he's basically a non factor unless they get to the 1 yard line. Forsett will rack up some receptions this year IMO, will get near 50.
 
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i didn't complete a thought on an issue raised by bigmarc...

even if he doesn't get a lot of breakaway 60 yard scores, only a few RBs can (chris johnson, peterson, few others), & they tend to go a lot higher in drafts...

even if his 5.4 YPC proves unsustainable (almost certainly), he looks like the kind of RB good at taking what is there (edit/add - and extra, between making defenders miss and breaking tackles)...

the two biggest questions in my mind...

what kind of workload does he get?

can he hold up to 225-240 carries (15 X a game = latter) IF he gets that chance...

if he holds up and gets in that range of carries, he will be very productive, imo...

 
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Bob Magaw said:
i didn't complete a thought on an issue raised by bigmarc...even if he doesn't get a lot of breakaway 60 yard scores, only a few RBs can (chris johnson, peterson, few others), & they tend to go a lot higher in drafts...even if his 5.4 YPC proves unsustainable, he looks like the kind of RB good at taking what is there (edit/add - and extra, between making defenders miss and breaking tackles)...the two biggest questions in my mind...what kind of workload does he get?can he hold up to 225-240 carries (15 X a game = latter) IF he gets that chance...if he holds up and gets in that range of carries, he will be very productive, imo...
Well, that's the whole thing Bob. If he gets 230 carries, that means he holds up but does he get 230. If I had to bet 1000 dollars on if he gets 230 carries at seasons end, I'd say no, whatever the reason would be he didn't get those carries. I like Forsett, I think he's a guy with some upside especially where we can draft him and I'd bump him slightly in PPR leagues. I don't like Seattle's offensive line nor do I like their defense but Forsett still seemed to score some Td's last year when Seattle was well behind in ball games.
 
edit/add - on the last part, it should be kept in mind that these are his HIGHLIGHTS! :blackdot: if we compiled a lowlight reel, we might see him backed up a bit more (perhaps some SEA homers can shed light on how good a job he does avoiding negative plays)... he had a poor outing in the run game against MIN (less than 10 yards in 8-9 carries)... they make a lot of RBs look bad, but not usually THAT bad (i think he compensated with 80 receiving yards?)...
The situation surrounding his production stood out more than anything.Most of those highlights are vs. AZ & Stl when he had huge games, and the Rams are not exactly juggernauts. The screen vs. SF for 6 was a perfect play call where anyone whould have scored.

Look at the bolded scoreboard in some of the highlights vs decent teams, two long screens vs. defenses ahead by a ton in the fourth, and one decent half against a team working the clock:

MIN 4 9:25 3 - 35 2nd-and-14 own 42 caught pass for 47 yards (first down)

HOU 4 7:29 7 - 34 2nd-and-6 own 42 caught pass for 42 yards (first down)

GB 4 10:37 3 - 41 2nd-and-10 own 17 rushed for 16 yards (first down). Forsett was 6 carries for 42 yards in the second half when his team was down by 28 at the break. He was 8 for 28 in the first half.

This guy is getting way too much love around here.

 
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Bob Magaw said:
i didn't complete a thought on an issue raised by bigmarc...even if he doesn't get a lot of breakaway 60 yard scores, only a few RBs can (chris johnson, peterson, few others), & they tend to go a lot higher in drafts...even if his 5.4 YPC proves unsustainable, he looks like the kind of RB good at taking what is there (edit/add - and extra, between making defenders miss and breaking tackles)...the two biggest questions in my mind...what kind of workload does he get?can he hold up to 225-240 carries (15 X a game = latter) IF he gets that chance...if he holds up and gets in that range of carries, he will be very productive, imo...
Well, that's the whole thing Bob. If he gets 230 carries, that means he holds up but does he get 230. If I had to bet 1000 dollars on if he gets 230 carries at seasons end, I'd say no, whatever the reason would be he didn't get those carries. I like Forsett, I think he's a guy with some upside especially where we can draft him and I'd bump him slightly in PPR leagues. I don't like Seattle's offensive line nor do I like their defense but Forsett still seemed to score some Td's last year when Seattle was well behind in ball games.
if he starts (and stays healthy), i think better than 50% he gets 200+ carries...225-240... somewhere between 25%-40%...you are right, he may not due to injury... but personally, i wouldn't bet $1,000 on it...he looks far more explosive than julius jones... if washington is healthy, he will get his, but i think forsett could still get 12-15 carries in a platoon (more touches)...15 X = 240, 12 X = 192so eight more over a season (if none missed) on top of 12 X a game gets to 200 carries...22 RBs had 200+ carries in 2009 (cadillac low end of range that made threshold at 210)...from 21 teams (stewart & deangelo only redundant from same team)...so darn close to 2/3 of the starters... of course, many of them are far more entrenched that forsett (not even a lock to start yet, but it is looking like he is the best candidate where we stand now)...
 
edit/add - on the last part, it should be kept in mind that these are his HIGHLIGHTS! :blackdot: if we compiled a lowlight reel, we might see him backed up a bit more (perhaps some SEA homers can shed light on how good a job he does avoiding negative plays)... he had a poor outing in the run game against MIN (less than 10 yards in 8-9 carries)... they make a lot of RBs look bad, but not usually THAT bad (i think he compensated with 80 receiving yards?)...
The situation surrounding his production stood out more than anything.Most of those highlights are vs. AZ & Stl when he had huge games, and the Rams are not exactly juggernauts. The screen vs. SF for 6 was a perfect play call where anyone whould have scored.

Look at the highlighted scoreboard in some of the highlights vs decent teams, two long screens vs. defenses ahead by a ton in the fourth, and one decent half against a team working the clock:

MIN 4 9:25 3 - 35 2nd-and-14 own 42 caught pass for 47 yards (first down)

HOU 4 7:29 7 - 34 2nd-and-6 own 42 caught pass for 42 yards (first down)

GB 4 10:37 3 - 41 2nd-and-10 own 17 rushed for 16 yards (first down). Forsett was 6 carries for 42 yards in the second half when his team was down by 28 at the break. He was 8 for 28 in the first half.

This guy is getting way too much love around here.
If you factor in PPR he is a high reward type player. He might catch 60 passes this year.
 
loads of intangibles, but very slow for a rb his size...still a good player

 
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If you factor in PPR he is a high reward type player. He might catch 60 passes this year.
60?
Seahawks | Coach says Leon Washington will be ready for camp Tue Jun 22, 05:24 PM Seattle Seahawks head coach Pete Carroll said RB Leon Washington (leg) will be ready for the start of training camp, but the team will be careful with Washington during the early days of camp, reports The Associated Press.
 
edit/add - on the last part, it should be kept in mind that these are his HIGHLIGHTS! :) if we compiled a lowlight reel, we might see him backed up a bit more (perhaps some SEA homers can shed light on how good a job he does avoiding negative plays)... he had a poor outing in the run game against MIN (less than 10 yards in 8-9 carries)... they make a lot of RBs look bad, but not usually THAT bad (i think he compensated with 80 receiving yards?)...
The situation surrounding his production stood out more than anything.Most of those highlights are vs. AZ & Stl when he had huge games, and the Rams are not exactly juggernauts. The screen vs. SF for 6 was a perfect play call where anyone whould have scored.

Look at the bolded scoreboard in some of the highlights vs decent teams, two long screens vs. defenses ahead by a ton in the fourth, and one decent half against a team working the clock:

MIN 4 9:25 3 - 35 2nd-and-14 own 42 caught pass for 47 yards (first down)

HOU 4 7:29 7 - 34 2nd-and-6 own 42 caught pass for 42 yards (first down)

GB 4 10:37 3 - 41 2nd-and-10 own 17 rushed for 16 yards (first down). Forsett was 6 carries for 42 yards in the second half when his team was down by 28 at the break. He was 8 for 28 in the first half.

This guy is getting way too much love around here.
a quarter of their (regular season) games are against STL & ARI*... :) if the team is more competitive, and not behind as much, they could run more...

* which could turbocharge his stats...

if he got 3 TDs in those games, and 5 other TDs in the remaining twelve games, for 8 rushing TDs...

that would put him in the top half of the league (15 had 8+... ronnie brown and hightower each had 8 TDs... brown in just nine games)...

SEA also gets OAK, KC & TB... they were #29, #31 & #32 in the league against the run in 2009 (STL #27, ARI #17)...

they also get DEN (#26), CAR (#22) & NO (#21)... saints great offense, so they could still be up by a couple TDs early?

 
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a quarter of their (regular season) games are against STL & ARI... :)

if the team is more competitive, and not behind as much, they could run more...
Not if you play in a league with a Week 16 title game....the schedule is interesting, tho.Week Opponent

1 San Francisco 49ers

2 at Denver Broncos

3 San Diego Chargers

4 at St. Louis Rams

Bye week

6 at Chicago Bears

7 Arizona Cardinals

8 at Oakland Raiders

9 New York Giants

10 at Arizona Cardinals

11 at New Orleans Saints

12 Kansas City Chiefs

13 Carolina Panthers

14 at San Francisco 49ers

15 Atlanta Falcons

16 at Tampa Bay Buccaneers

17 St. Louis Rams

 
Ascendant Talent....what a curious way to describe Forsett.

I remember one of the hottest threads last year described Miles Austin an "ascendant talent". That should have been copyrighted or something.

In any case, the Seattle offense does not have the weapons necessary for Forsett to have that type of year. I'll agree he's value at current ADP, that isn't overstating the talent however.
Receiving backs in PPR always have a chance to put up solid fantasy numbers, even if their teams suck out loud.
 
Bob Magaw said:
i didn't complete a thought on an issue raised by bigmarc...

even if he doesn't get a lot of breakaway 60 yard scores, only a few RBs can (chris johnson, peterson, few others), & they tend to go a lot higher in drafts...

even if his 5.4 YPC proves unsustainable, he looks like the kind of RB good at taking what is there (edit/add - and extra, between making defenders miss and breaking tackles)...

the two biggest questions in my mind...

what kind of workload does he get?

can he hold up to 225-240 carries (15 X a game = latter) IF he gets that chance...

if he holds up and gets in that range of carries, he will be very productive, imo...
Well, that's the whole thing Bob. If he gets 230 carries, that means he holds up but does he get 230. If I had to bet 1000 dollars on if he gets 230 carries at seasons end, I'd say no, whatever the reason would be he didn't get those carries. I like Forsett, I think he's a guy with some upside especially where we can draft him and I'd bump him slightly in PPR leagues. I don't like Seattle's offensive line nor do I like their defense but Forsett still seemed to score some Td's last year when Seattle was well behind in ball games.
If he takes and holds the starting role which I think is likely on that team, then 12-15 carries (230 = ~14 carries/game) is easily reachable . . . plus his receiving stats. Those are easily starting FF RB numbers, and even moreso in PPR leagues. I think in this scenario he's easily an 18-20 touch/game RB, and he'll get an above average yards per carry/reception average. Where he'll be lacking is in TD's given his size and situation, but that's fine. I expect him to be a money-in-the-bank RB2 in PPR leagues, and maybe have year-end numbers that are creeping into the low RB1 levels. i.e. 11th ranked RB or something.

 
I am high on Forsett as a player, and I firmly believe that when the dust settles he will be the main ball carrier for the Seahawks in 2010 and beyond. I would only pursue him in dynasty leagues if I could get him for the right price. Now isn't the time to buy Forsett. I'm waiting until Washington gets back. On top of that, I want to see if the Hawks act on Marshawn Lynch.

 
I think you have to watch film, not highlights to learn anything. Highlights can make anyone look like a stud. Case in point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDVcyD0SwEg

HE has the situation to put up decent numbers this year but I don't think he is anything close to an ascendant talent. I don't think he's a lasting fixture as a starter, and I do think his receptions won't top 35.

 
I think you have to watch film, not highlights to learn anything. Highlights can make anyone look like a stud. Case in point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDVcyD0SwEg

HE has the situation to put up decent numbers this year but I don't think he is anything close to an ascendant talent. I don't think he's a lasting fixture as a starter, and I do think his receptions won't top 35.
For a video called Beast Mode, he only ran up the middle three times in about a 6 minute video.
 
I think you have to watch film, not highlights to learn anything. Highlights can make anyone look like a stud. Case in point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDVcyD0SwEg

HE has the situation to put up decent numbers this year but I don't think he is anything close to an ascendant talent. I don't think he's a lasting fixture as a starter, and I do think his receptions won't top 35.
For a video called Beast Mode, he only ran up the middle three times in about a 6 minute video.
I think Beast Mode just means that he's ugly.
 
I think you have to watch film, not highlights to learn anything. Highlights can make anyone look like a stud. Case in point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDVcyD0SwEg

HE has the situation to put up decent numbers this year but I don't think he is anything close to an ascendant talent. I don't think he's a lasting fixture as a starter, and I do think his receptions won't top 35.
ascendant (definition) - proceeding upwards; risingin saying he not only isn't ascendant, but isn't even close...

i interpret that as suggesting he isn't improving or capable of improving... he is as good as he will ever be, and has no hope of getting better...

in saying he is ascendant, i'm not sure either if he will be the lock down starter for the next half decade... but that his chances of being the starter are much greater this year than last... his situation is clearly improved over last year...

some players improve just through practice and getting reps with the starters in practice... some RBs need carries to get in a rhythm... i'm not so certain he is incapable of improvement if given the opportunity to start...

sometimes the distinction between redraft and dynasty gets blurred in these threads (i am also guilty of this)... but in redraft, depending on league, he can be gotten as RB3-RB4... maybe he is moving up in ADP, but he was recently around RB31... ie - one of the worst "starters" in the league... of course, some of that is factoring in the uncertainty and risk that he maybe doesn't even start... IF he does, i'm going to go out on a limb and suggest he has upside better than one of the worst starters in the league... dynasty is definitely a far murkier projection... naturally, if somebody thinks forsett has little talent and is destined to fail, they won't be too keen on his dynasty prospects... i haven't come to that conclusion... if he does well this year, it reduces the chance they rush to go out and find a replacement for him (whether in free agency, trade, draft)... its not like SEA doesn't have some other holes (both lines, probably WR, even with tate, trufant has been injured a lot, etc.)... like in redraft, in dynasty it is about value, what to pay... got him in a few dynasty leagues last year (16 & 14 teamers) off the waiver wire for practically nothing... inclined to keep him for now, as i think his value goes up if he starts... from there, i won't be necessarily looking to flip him, and definitely won't give him away... if he looks good, it increases the chance i end up keeping him, or if i get offers, extracting more for him...

we can make some inferences on his standing with SEA by the moves carroll did & didn't make... he acquired white, but TEN gave him away, and he was quickly cut... washington doesn't look like a 300+ carry back that can carry the load himself (nor does forsett), so there should be some kind of RBBC, it will be interesting to see how the carries are shared and distributed...

60 receptions is a lot - in 2009, only rice and hightower had more...

20 RBs had more than 35 (a little more than 2 per game), from 17 teams... MIN (peterson & taylor), NO (bush & thomas) & SEA (forsett & jones) had two each... forsett was tied 15th last year, with 41 receptions... i think he started two games... if he starts this season, a 35 reception season seems kind of a low as a ceiling? i'm not making that statement in a vacuum, but also factoring in that forsett appears to have some traits/attributes well suited to the screen (patience, timing, hands, vision, instincts, quickness, lateral agility, cutting ability, elusiveness, contact balance, tackle breaking power, etc.)...

i have had the discussion about the usefulness of highlights before... if you have the resources and time to break down coaching film of every play, that would be ideal... but that doesn't describe too many people on this board (or anywhere, other than people who have NFL jobs, like front office-types, coaches, scouts, etc.)... so than the question is... are exercises like this completely useless, or worse, misleading?

others should judge that for themselves, but i'd make a few points...

1) i don't at all agree that highlights are worthless/misleading... they show you what a player is capable of at their best... if i had been in the himalayas or a cave for past few years, never seen adrian peterson or calvin johnson before, and was shown a highlight clip, i would be pretty confident in saying, yes, they look like the real deal...

2) i'm not remotely suggesting ONLY looking at few minute snippets, and basing opinions SOLELY on that! :unsure: MANY, MANY other factors should considered... what was his YPC last year (5.4 - tied 4th best in the NFL)... what is the information coming out of OTAs (LA times sam farmer reported forsett is fast becoming a favorite of carroll)... how did he do in college (as senior, led PAC-10 in TDs, second to jonathan stewart in yards)... does the player have a reputation for being lazy, and likely to bungle the opportunity... or the opposite, are they hard working, smart, high character with good intangibles, and more likely to run with it? etc., etc. etc.

3) marshawn lynch's 2008 highlight reel was an interesting choice... he was #13 in 2008 (#11 in 2007)... the film wasn't misleading in fooling you into thinking he was a good RB, even though he really wasn't... he WAS a good RB in 2007 & 2008... why he wasn't in 2009 is a different story, and could probably take up a whole thread unto itself... he missed three games... he only got 120 carries, but that was a combination of looking bad, and also jackson looking very good... was he hurt? sulking and pouting? wanted out of BUF? the OL was brutal, but than you have to account for the variance between jackson and lynch, with the SAME OL... lynch is a good example of a descending player... :no:

 
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I saw Forsett as a very similar talent to Ray Rice. Only Rice looked to have the size and arm-tackle-ripping-strength needed to be a feature back. I doubt Forsett would hold up to a feature back's pace for more than a year or two and there are likely many coaches in the league that have the same opinion. Dunn is also a good comparison, but Dunn was possibly the toughest, pound-for-pound football player I have ever seen. Up there with guys like Lott and Dawkins. It's possible that Forsett proves me wrong and is one of the toughest players I have ever watched, but I'm not playing those odds.

I'm not confident that a guy his size would get 200+ carries or 230+ touches very many times in his career. In redraft, this could be one of those years. In dynasty, I'm not buying. I don't question his talent, just his staying power.

 
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I saw Forsett as a very similar talent to Ray Rice. Only Rice looked to have the size and arm-tackle-ripping-strength needed to be a feature back. I doubt Forsett would hold up to a feature back's pace for more than a year or two and there are likely many coaches in the league that have the same opinion. Dunn is also a good comparison, but Dunn was possibly the toughest, pound-for-pound football player I have ever seen. Up there with guys like Lott and Dawkins. It's possible that Forsett proves me wrong and is one of the toughest players I have ever watched, but I'm not playing those odds.

I'm not confident that a guy his size would get 200+ carries or 230+ touches very many times in his career. In redraft, this could be one of those years. In dynasty, I'm not buying. I don't question his talent, just his staying power.
Rice seems a lot stockier than Forsett. Rice is a poor man's MJD.Forsett is a poor man's Brian Westbrook.

One problem for JF is that there is a rich man's Brian Westbrook on this team by the name of Leon Washington.

 
Tick said:
sholditch said:
I think you have to watch film, not highlights to learn anything. Highlights can make anyone look like a stud. Case in point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDVcyD0SwEg

HE has the situation to put up decent numbers this year but I don't think he is anything close to an ascendant talent. I don't think he's a lasting fixture as a starter, and I do think his receptions won't top 35.
For a video called Beast Mode, he only ran up the middle three times in about a 6 minute video.
He also accidentally runs out of bounds on the second "highlight." I don't think I've ever seen a highlight reel where a dude blows a play. :goodposting:
 
LawFitz said:
Cookiemonster said:
I saw Forsett as a very similar talent to Ray Rice. Only Rice looked to have the size and arm-tackle-ripping-strength needed to be a feature back. I doubt Forsett would hold up to a feature back's pace for more than a year or two and there are likely many coaches in the league that have the same opinion. Dunn is also a good comparison, but Dunn was possibly the toughest, pound-for-pound football player I have ever seen. Up there with guys like Lott and Dawkins. It's possible that Forsett proves me wrong and is one of the toughest players I have ever watched, but I'm not playing those odds.

I'm not confident that a guy his size would get 200+ carries or 230+ touches very many times in his career. In redraft, this could be one of those years. In dynasty, I'm not buying. I don't question his talent, just his staying power.
Rice seems a lot stockier than Forsett. Rice is a poor man's MJD.Forsett is a poor man's Brian Westbrook.

One problem for JF is that there is might be a rich man's Brian Westbrook on this team by the name of Leon Washington.
Fixed.
 
the guy does not need to bust off 40 -60 yarders if he can average 5.4 yards and start all 16 games, then you add his ability to catch and he is a top 10 RB in 2010!!! anyone can draft Johnson but it takes risky moves like taking a player like forsett a little early, its called a calculated risk and its what teams that finish first most years do!!!! so when teams are drafting M. forte, s. jackson and Mccoy I will wait and pair my #1 RB with forsett!!!

 
the guy does not need to bust off 40 -60 yarders if he can average 5.4 yards and start all 16 games, then you add his ability to catch and he is a top 10 RB in 2010!!! anyone can draft Johnson but it takes risky moves like taking a player like forsett a little early, its called a calculated risk and its what teams that finish first most years do!!!! so when teams are drafting M. forte, s. jackson and Mccoy I will wait and pair my #1 RB with forsett!!!
Attaboy, rokie. I like the fire.
 
I have 3 picks (6,7,8) where Portis, RBrown, RBush, MBush, MBarber, Maroney, Jacobs, CTaylor, Slaton, McFadden, RWilliams, etc should be available in my 10 owner, 5 keeper no PPR league. (Im predicting Mathews, Spiller, Best and Tate to be gone)

I may pick Forsett, Hardesty and 1 of the above to be my RB 3-5. I think Forsett stands out in that crowd for 2010 and future upside combined.

I know you dont care about my league but I felt it typifies the group of RBs that may be in front of a Forsett decision.

 
LawFitz said:
Cookiemonster said:
I saw Forsett as a very similar talent to Ray Rice. Only Rice looked to have the size and arm-tackle-ripping-strength needed to be a feature back. I doubt Forsett would hold up to a feature back's pace for more than a year or two and there are likely many coaches in the league that have the same opinion. Dunn is also a good comparison, but Dunn was possibly the toughest, pound-for-pound football player I have ever seen. Up there with guys like Lott and Dawkins. It's possible that Forsett proves me wrong and is one of the toughest players I have ever watched, but I'm not playing those odds.

I'm not confident that a guy his size would get 200+ carries or 230+ touches very many times in his career. In redraft, this could be one of those years. In dynasty, I'm not buying. I don't question his talent, just his staying power.
Rice seems a lot stockier than Forsett. Rice is a poor man's MJD.Forsett is a poor man's Brian Westbrook.

One problem for JF is that there is a rich man's Brian Westbrook on this team by the name of Leon Washington.
washington segue...he might be a rich man's westbrook, if we are talking about the post-2009, multiple concussion iteration... in his prime? marshall faulk (in his prime) was more like a rich man's westbrook...

washington had a serious leg injury... not necessarily in the sense of being career threatening (SEA presumably didn't think it was... than again, maybe it was worth a roll of the dice, as he didn't exactly break the bank at the cost of a fifth rounder)... i'd be surprised if he was 100% this year... michael bush had a similar injury (his final season at louisville, or in the pre-draft process?), and i think OAK brought him along slowly...

below recent quote (yahoo) addressed this concern specifically...

"Washington, recovering from a compound leg fracture, might not be ready to join the battle until deep into training camp, according to Seahawks GM John Schneider."

washington is playing for a contract, but SEA isn't locked into him long term currently... maybe the jets didn't think washington was worth it, or young enough, to justify the expense of an extension... it also could have been a move made in spite of liking him, to clear the decks for a queue of expected big upcoming contracts, for revis, ferguson (check), mangold & harris... and they were able to get his replacement in joe mcknight relatively cheap & easy, and he is of course younger...

it is possible washington was acquired because the team wanted to add a piece of the RBBC puzzle... even if he may not be the biggest piece...

for what it is worth in dynasty (and for actual NFL purposes), washington turns 28, and forsett 25 in 2010...

incidentally, i thought i remembered washington catching more passes... his career high was 47 in 2008, his last full season before the gruesome break... before that i think he was in the 20's & 30's (nothing special numbers-wise, perhaps he was "under-used")... he had more carries as a rookie (151) than his next two seasons combined (147)... he had 13 rushing and 2 receiving TDs in his (first) three full seasons... last year, in seven games, he was pacing to get a similar number of carries as his rookie season, but had just 15 receptions and no TDs...

* forsett and washington are near identical listed height/weight - 5'8" 195 lbs.

 
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I have 3 picks (6,7,8) where Portis, RBrown, RBush, MBush, MBarber, Maroney, Jacobs, CTaylor, Slaton, McFadden, RWilliams, etc should be available in my 10 owner, 5 keeper no PPR league. (Im predicting Mathews, Spiller, Best and Tate to be gone)I may pick Forsett, Hardesty and 1 of the above to be my RB 3-5. I think Forsett stands out in that crowd for 2010 and future upside combined.I know you dont care about my league but I felt it typifies the group of RBs that may be in front of a Forsett decision.
no worries... as it wasn't phrased (or i think intended) as a what to do post, you gave your thoughts... AND since intra-positionally (and ultimately inter-positionally), everybody is connected to everybody else, in terms of relative value, imo, it is never inappropriate to have these kinds of discussions (carte blanche in my threads, with the phrasing/intent proviso :thumbup: )...i do like hardesty's talent a lot, and you have to like his age and opportunity...there are some old RBs in that list... barber, bush, and maybe even maroney are some interesting names on that list...i think barber could command more trade value, NOW (forsett's value could surge, though, if he earns the starting nod and looks good to begin the season... it could rocket even more if he enjoys sustained success this season)... chase wrote a recent article that barber could be very productive if he is the goal line RB (as expected), and the cowboys put up 50+ TDs (?)... he has been getting banged up of late, but reportedly lost weight in an effort to get quicker in 2010... DAL signed him to an extension a few years ago, but not sure based on its structure how likely or unlikely he might be to get clipped in a year or two, contingent on his performance, health, how gracefully he ages, etc. (they do have choice waiting in the wings, who despite not having exactly the same game as barber, could make a similarly nice complement to jones, in the sense of being more of a meat and potatoes inside runner)...bush is interesting because OAK is losing RBs and SEA is gaining them (though white was cut)... both should be improved teams this year... it is close, but i think bush might be at least or possibly more likely to start over mcfadden than forsett over jones/washington? bush was a fourth rounder, but would have gone higher if not for a washington-like leg injury requiring insertion of a steel rod... he may have had to overcome a stigma of coming right after in rapid succession from same program (louisville) and with similar size/game to catastrophic bomb eric shelton (but bush has at least flashed the kind of ability at times, in limited action, to vindicate OAK's pick... unlike shelton in CAR)... bio excerpt from his wiki page..."Bush's breakout season came as a junior in 2005, as he rushed for 1143 yards on 205 carries, averaging 5.6 yards per carry, racked up 23 rushing touchdowns, and led NCAA Division 1-A in scoring.[4] He was also widely considered to be a preseason candidate for the 2006 Heisman Trophy.[5] Though he could have left early for the NFL Draft, Bush decided to return for his senior season.He came into the 2006 projected as one of the top 10 players for the 2007 NFL Draft, and his season began successfully as expected. His first carry of the season was a 48-yard run for a touchdown in the Cardinals' annual rivalry game with Kentucky. He then scored two more touchdowns in the first half, and had carried for 128 yards when he was tackled during a routine rushing play by Kentucky linebacker Wesley Woodyard, and suffered a broken right tibia. The injury was so bad that ESPN announced before the end of the game that Bush would miss the remainder of the 2006 season.[6] The injury required the insertion of a steel rod and a second operation to facilitate the healing process."
 
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LawFitz said:
Cookiemonster said:
I saw Forsett as a very similar talent to Ray Rice. Only Rice looked to have the size and arm-tackle-ripping-strength needed to be a feature back. I doubt Forsett would hold up to a feature back's pace for more than a year or two and there are likely many coaches in the league that have the same opinion. Dunn is also a good comparison, but Dunn was possibly the toughest, pound-for-pound football player I have ever seen. Up there with guys like Lott and Dawkins. It's possible that Forsett proves me wrong and is one of the toughest players I have ever watched, but I'm not playing those odds.

I'm not confident that a guy his size would get 200+ carries or 230+ touches very many times in his career. In redraft, this could be one of those years. In dynasty, I'm not buying. I don't question his talent, just his staying power.
Rice seems a lot stockier than Forsett. Rice is a poor man's MJD.Forsett is a poor man's Brian Westbrook.

One problem for JF is that there is a rich man's Brian Westbrook on this team by the name of Leon Washington.
washington segue...he might be a rich man's westbrook, if we are talking about the post-2009, multiple concussion iteration... in his prime? marshall faulk (in his prime) was more like a rich man's westbrook...

washington had a serious leg injury... not necessarily in the sense of being career threatening (SEA presumably didn't think it was... than again, maybe it was worth a roll of the dice, as he didn't exactly break the bank at the cost of a fifth rounder)... i'd be surprised if he was 100% this year... michael bush had a similar injury (his final season at louisville, or in the pre-draft process?), and i think OAK brought him along slowly...

below recent quote (yahoo) addressed this concern specifically...

"Washington, recovering from a compound leg fracture, might not be ready to join the battle until deep into training camp, according to Seahawks GM John Schneider."

washington is playing for a contract, but SEA isn't locked into him long term currently... maybe the jets didn't think washington was worth it, or young enough, to justify the expense of an extension... it also could have been a move made in spite of liking him, to clear the decks for a queue of expected big upcoming contracts, for revis, ferguson (check), mangold & harris... and they were able to get his replacement in joe mcknight relatively cheap & easy, and he is of course younger...

it is possible washington was acquired because the team wanted to add a piece of the RBBC puzzle... even if he may not be the biggest piece...

for what it is worth in dynasty (and for actual NFL purposes), washington turns 28, and forsett 25 in 2010...

incidentally, i thought i remembered washington catching more passes... his career high was 47 in 2008, his last full season before the gruesome break... before that i think he was in the 20's & 30's (nothing special numbers-wise, perhaps he was "under-used")... he had more carries as a rookie (151) than his next two seasons combined (147)... he had 13 rushing and 2 receiving TDs in his (first) three full seasons... last year, in seven games, he was pacing to get a similar number of carries as his rookie season, but had just 15 receptions and no TDs...

* forsett and washington are near identical listed height/weight - 5'8" 195 lbs.
Excellent work. Thanks.Forsett may well be one of the emerging talents in the league. That said, I really liked what I saw of Washington pre-injury. If Washington can rebound from his injury, he is someone to keep an eye on.

 
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I saw Forsett as a very similar talent to Ray Rice. Only Rice looked to have the size and arm-tackle-ripping-strength needed to be a feature back. I doubt Forsett would hold up to a feature back's pace for more than a year or two and there are likely many coaches in the league that have the same opinion. Dunn is also a good comparison, but Dunn was possibly the toughest, pound-for-pound football player I have ever seen. Up there with guys like Lott and Dawkins. It's possible that Forsett proves me wrong and is one of the toughest players I have ever watched, but I'm not playing those odds.

I'm not confident that a guy his size would get 200+ carries or 230+ touches very many times in his career. In redraft, this could be one of those years. In dynasty, I'm not buying. I don't question his talent, just his staying power.
Rice seems a lot stockier than Forsett. Rice is a poor man's MJD.Forsett is a poor man's Brian Westbrook.

One problem for JF is that there is a rich man's Brian Westbrook on this team by the name of Leon Washington.
washington segue...he might be a rich man's westbrook, if we are talking about the post-2009, multiple concussion iteration... in his prime? marshall faulk (in his prime) was more like a rich man's westbrook...

washington had a serious leg injury... not necessarily in the sense of being career threatening (SEA presumably didn't think it was... than again, maybe it was worth a roll of the dice, as he didn't exactly break the bank at the cost of a fifth rounder)... i'd be surprised if he was 100% this year... michael bush had a similar injury (his final season at louisville, or in the pre-draft process?), and i think OAK brought him along slowly...

below recent quote (yahoo) addressed this concern specifically...

"Washington, recovering from a compound leg fracture, might not be ready to join the battle until deep into training camp, according to Seahawks GM John Schneider."

washington is playing for a contract, but SEA isn't locked into him long term currently... maybe the jets didn't think washington was worth it, or young enough, to justify the expense of an extension... it also could have been a move made in spite of liking him, to clear the decks for a queue of expected big upcoming contracts, for revis, ferguson (check), mangold & harris... and they were able to get his replacement in joe mcknight relatively cheap & easy, and he is of course younger...

it is possible washington was acquired because the team wanted to add a piece of the RBBC puzzle... even if he may not be the biggest piece...

for what it is worth in dynasty (and for actual NFL purposes), washington turns 28, and forsett 25 in 2010...

incidentally, i thought i remembered washington catching more passes... his career high was 47 in 2008, his last full season before the gruesome break... before that i think he was in the 20's & 30's (nothing special numbers-wise, perhaps he was "under-used")... he had more carries as a rookie (151) than his next two seasons combined (147)... he had 13 rushing and 2 receiving TDs in his (first) three full seasons... last year, in seven games, he was pacing to get a similar number of carries as his rookie season, but had just 15 receptions and no TDs...

* forsett and washington are near identical listed height/weight - 5'8" 195 lbs.
Excellent work. Thanks.Forsett may well be one of the emerging talents in the league. That said, I really liked what I saw of Washington pre-injury. If Washington can rebound from his injury, he is someone to keep an eye on.
thank YOU, for the socratic dialogue... :shrug: washington highlights (2006 & 2007)... very grainy, hard to watch footage... looks faster (4.4-4.5 at combine?) and an even quicker, more natural, sudden, explosive cutter than forsett (at least, used to)... didn't see the same kind of tackle breaking knack (maybe because he was lightning quick and hard to get a hand on), but i can see how they could both succeed in different ways... washington has played longer, but has never carried the load, so i don't see him as any less speculative than forsett, if SEA employs a primary ball carrier (and not a more even split)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvTliO4jxrk

washington fun facts - phenomenal athete, florida's mr. football ('02)... rated top CB in the nation by rivals100...

 
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SEA - Carroll: RB Leon Washington coming back strong, should be ready for campSource: Pete CarrollSeattle head coach Pete Carroll said on his Twitter feed that RB Leon Washington is "coming back strong" and should be practicing in camp.[ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ OUR VIEW ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ]The Justin Forsett bandwagon might have left the station a little early, as Washington is a similar back, but more established and explosive. If he can get back to even 90-95% of what he was last year, Washington will significantly cut into Forsett's work, if not get more work than the third-year back.
Love Washington *if* he's healthy.
 

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