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WR Antonio Brown, FA (6 Viewers)

I know, IMO he is a top 10 RB who can do everything and RB is a position Tampa desperately needs. Yes I also know the history but getting a guaranteed proven stud compared to somewhat roll of the dice player in round 2 is worth taking the chance. Is there a chance whoever they take in round 2 at any position will be as good as Hunt, possibly but I say the odds are heavy against that happening.
You can draft a better rb in the second without all the baggage and pay them less money.

 
disagree 100% that a better rb will be there at 45. I fully expect the top 3 to be gone, and no one outside of those 3 comes close to Hunt. I'm not even sure if some of the top 3 are better than Hunt
I think Helaire is more suited to what Arians is looking for and I think a good chance he is available. I also don't consider this draft to have a top 3 RB's.

 
Helaire might be there, but he looks nothing like Hunt. He looks like a human bowling ball who runs a 4.6 and is overvalued because of dynasty rookie drafts.
I don't mind disagreement at all but that's just a silly reason to think that has anything to do with the value I put on him or the value I believe NFL teams put on him.

 
I don't mind disagreement at all but that's just a silly reason to think that has anything to do with the value I put on him or the value I believe NFL teams put on him.
You'd disagree that the fantasy community can often move in lockstep, often overvaluing players at the expense of more rational football valuations? And that if everyone was down on him in the NFL and dynasty that wouldn't give you pause? Both of those are singular approaches, but novel. Yes, a guy can be overrated in fantasy circles and that can impact how people view his draft capital, etc.

Even so - and I think that last statement is true -- I never said anything about NFL valuation on him, or your belief about it. I simply said he's overrated in general as a prospect because of fantasy rookie drafts. Guy is 88th on PFF's big board. That's nice for him -- but doesn't make him a second-rounder, nor even close to 45th.

 
You'd disagree that the fantasy community can often move in lockstep, often overvaluing players at the expense of more rational football valuations? And that if everyone was down on him in the NFL and dynasty that wouldn't give you pause? Both of those are singular approaches, but novel. Yes, a guy can be overrated in fantasy circles and that can impact how people view his draft capital, etc.

Even so - and I think that last statement is true -- I never said anything about NFL valuation on him, or your belief about it. I simply said he's overrated in general as a prospect because of fantasy rookie drafts. Guy is 88th on PFF's big board. That's nice for him -- but doesn't make him a second-rounder, nor even close to 45th.
You are all over the board here, not even sure were you are coming from to dissect each and every comment. I don't care about PFF, I don't care what fantasy people think. None of that really has anything to do with the comment you made. I mean if you say what Doc said, you think he's overrated that's all fine, I think you are both wrong as could be, but that's fine. But that's not what you said.

So let me ask two questions and  try to answer it more directly.

When trained NFL talent evaluators, ex-NFL scouts and ex-NFL GM's, not a single one of whom plays fantasy football, considers him one of the 2 or 3 best RB's in this draft what on earth does that do with dynasty rookie drafts making him overvalued?  When he does actually go in round two, which he will, you going to honestly tell me it's because of PFF or the dynasty community?

 
When trained NFL talent evaluators, ex-NFL scouts and ex-NFL GM's, not a single one of whom plays fantasy football, considers him one of the 2 or 3 best RB's in this draft what on earth does that do with dynasty rookie drafts making him overvalued?  When he does actually go in round two, which he will, you going to honestly tell me it's because of PFF or the dynasty community?
One, they have him out of the second.  Two, no it's not because of PFF or the dynasty community. That'll be on the talent evaluators themselves, and talent evaluators actually are, as a non-sequitur to the conversation, influenced by PFF. That's why they pay the money for the advanced stats. But that's an aside. You're having trouble enough with what I say, as evidenced by this...

You are all over the board here, not even sure were you are coming from to dissect each and every comment.
I've simply stated a tautology. I simply said that because fantasy players overvalue him, that means that fantasy players overvalue him. I said, logically,, nothing else than that it's my opinion, and others' opinion, that you're overvaluing his talent and his draft slot.

You're the one being confusing here, actually. I have no idea what you're trying to say and you're passing off opinions as fact (the "he will [go]" in Round 2 is your opinion, and you're asking me to rebut it as fact) which is another cherry on top of the Helaire debacle you're perpetratin' here. 

 
One, they have him out of the second.  Two, no it's not because of PFF or the dynasty community. That'll be on the talent evaluators themselves, and talent evaluators actually are, as a non-sequitur to the conversation, influenced by PFF. That's why they pay the money for the advanced stats. But that's an aside. You're having trouble enough with what I say, as evidenced by this...

I've simply stated a tautology. I simply said that because fantasy players overvalue him, that means that fantasy players overvalue him. I said, logically,, nothing else than that it's my opinion, and others' opinion, that you're overvaluing his talent and his draft slot.

You're the one being confusing here, actually. I have no idea what you're trying to say and you're passing off opinions as fact (the "he will [go]" in Round 2 is your opinion, and you're asking me to rebut it as fact) which is another cherry on top of the Helaire debacle you're perpetratin' here. 
I'm be confusing? I'm asking a simple question and you are off on some PFF tangent. Who has him out of the second? Tautology? What are you even talking about?

Yes he will go in round two. I don't like people making statements of fact as opinions but if they do I expect them to own it. I own this comment. I'm not into I told you so's but you come back here on April 24th, I will. I 100% own this comment, he's going in round 2.

My simple question to you simply can't be answered  I guess. Not all ex-scouts are in agreement, not all are so high on him, and those that are high on him could be wrong but several of them have him as the #2 RB in this draft. Saying he's overrated because of dynasty rookie drafts is one of the most absurd things I've heard on these boards in a long time and that's saying something.

:blackdot:

 
Congratulations. You managed to take an easy statement about being overvalued by dynasty drafters and turn it into this goobledy####. Kudos to you, truly. 

Interesting take coming from the guy whose comment I responded to initially said something that has not yet happened yet as far as I know, which is dynasty rookie drafts,  is leading him to being overvalued.

 
Dr. Dan said:
I dont understand what is so hard about the concept that hes over valued because of dynasty fantasy players. 
He said he was overvalued because of dynasty rookie drafts, not players.  So yes it is hard for me to understand how something that has not happened  for the most part, actual dynasty rookie drafts,  is causing a player to be overrated.

But let's move one from that and focus on being overrated by dynasty football players.

Your Hakeem Butler example not only does not work but it's actually like the 100% total polar opposite and that's what I was trying to explain last night. As you pointed out Hakeem Butler was loved by the fantasy community but not so much by NFL community.

I believe CEH is the opposite of that right now and I've expanded on this before in one of these threads. He is loved way more by the actual NFL community then the fantasy community which is again the total opposite of Butler.

Now, here is the tricky part. I can't prove how high the NFL community is on him before the NFL draft anymore then someone can prove dynasty players are more down on him then they should be based on how he'll actually perform. But I can offer bits of information that are indicative, I can't make anyone believe this info or the credibility of those that provide it nor would I try to. I can just say I buy the credibility of these individuals, don't always agree with them but for various reasons these are people who have a pulse on what NFL front offices are thinking and their rankings are not based on or influenced by dynasty in any way.

Daniel Jeremiah, ex-NFL scout. First guy last year to start pumping up Jacobs as a first round guy when some in fantasy were snickering. DJ does not run a dynasty team or play fantasy football. CEH is his #2 ranked RB.

Bucky Brooks, ex-NFL scout, he has CEH as his #2 ranked RB. Bucky does not play fantasy football.

Bryan Broadhaus, ex-NFL scout and ex-GM of the Eagles. I don't know his rankings or if he will put them out this year. I don't know were he has CEH ranked. I only know that he said he liked CEH more then Taylor and believes most scouts will as well.

Ex-scouts are not all in lockstep and neither are dynasty players. Tony Pauline has CEH as his #4 RB and is way lower on him then the other 3.

I only reference those individuals as they have some degree of credibility as ex-NFL scouts, and I know at least 3 of them don't play fantasy football. I don't follow Pauline or know if he does but I don't think so.

CEH might be a bust, I'm not here to argue with anyone who says he stinks, but this is absolutely not a case of him being built up by the fantasy community.If we were really searching for a RB that is valued higher in fantasy then the people I just referenced it would be Taylor. Not one of them has him as their #1 RB and only one of them has him as their #2.

 
ESPN's Adam Schefter reports free agent WR Antonio Brown hired Ed Wasielewski of EMG Sports as his new agent.

EMG Sports is home to notable NFL players such as Colts RB Nyheim Hines, Dolphins OT Julién Davenport and ex-Giants LB Nate Stupar. AB continues to pop up in the news on a routine basis. Last week alone we had a cameo with Lamar Jackson as well as a legal update from his January arrest. Brown hasn't remained out of the headlines much for the better part of the last few years. We wouldn't expect that to change anytime soon.

SOURCE: Adam Schefter on Twitter

Apr 6, 2020, 12:35 PM ET

 
I’ve trashed this guy for 1.5+ years. I’m now buying the bottom. People think a 31 year old WR who lost his mind is done, especially with this corona ####. Go get him for free. He’s a better stash then most of the WR’s entering the league. He’s started to keep his head low. He will find a roster. Too much need, too many ego driven front offices.

 
Iceman03 said:
I’ve trashed this guy for 1.5+ years. I’m now buying the bottom. People think a 31 year old WR who lost his mind is done, especially with this corona ####. Go get him for free. He’s a better stash then most of the WR’s entering the league. He’s started to keep his head low. He will find a roster. Too much need, too many ego driven front offices.
If I am Seattle, I am calling him up right away. It has been a great organization for guys with challenging or unusual personalities. Carroll knows how to manage a locker room and get a long well with his players. Their defense is bad, they have tried being run heavy but their rushing attack is weak right now. The one thing they have going for them that keeps them in the playoff race every year is Wilson. It's time to let him air it out 40 times a game and play KC style offense. AB at the X, DK at the Y and Locket in the slot. Find a pass catching specialist in the later rounds. 

 
If I am Seattle, I am calling him up right away.
I think they'd have signed him last year if he was clear to play but almost 7 months after the initial rape allegation the league is still slow playing him and no one is going to sign him until both that investigation and now investigation into moving van/driver is done and teams know when he can play.

Not sure if we are now working under new CBA guidelines which would  put his discipline in hands of independent party and  not the judge and jury of Roger, but the sooner he gets handed down whatever punishment is coming to him the better. Never thought I'd say this  as someone who still remains invested in him, and continues to invest in him, but I'd be pretty happy if sometime really soon the league slapped him with a 6 game suspension or something. Need to get that out of the way already one way or the other.

 
I think they'd have signed him last year if he was clear to play but almost 7 months after the initial rape allegation the league is still slow playing him and no one is going to sign him until both that investigation and now investigation into moving van/driver is done and teams know when he can play.

Not sure if we are now working under new CBA guidelines which would  put his discipline in hands of independent party and  not the judge and jury of Roger, but the sooner he gets handed down whatever punishment is coming to him the better. Never thought I'd say this  as someone who still remains invested in him, and continues to invest in him, but I'd be pretty happy if sometime really soon the league slapped him with a 6 game suspension or something. Need to get that out of the way already one way or the other.
I don't believe there is anything to compel the league to announce any pending discipline for AB. Since he is not on a roster, their argument will be they are not preventing him from signing somewhere. Then when he signs they can provide an update on any punishment ranging from another investigation is pending, a fine, a suspension, to placement on the dreaded exempt list. So the league is getting what they want indirectly.

 
Gotta think most everybody will want to see how these legal things shake out before even sniffing him....if it comes out that all charges get dropped with truck driver, “he didn’t do anything” with the women....etc.....then somebody might be willing to forego the PR backlash and take a stab.....have recently had some guys (Alton Smith, etc) allowed to come back in, so yo never say never.....but until Brown is able “clear some of these things up” to where the teams and the NFL can get an assessment of his situation moving forward, nobody is going to take that leap....

 
Way to spin numbers to prove faulty logic. AB put up those numbers despite dealing with constant double and sometime triple teams. Makes JuJu's job easy in comparison. PFN OSM doesn't even mention coverage as a footnote.  SMH
I don't believe those numbers either.  You're correct; defenses game-planned against AB and allowed themselves to be beat by other players (i.e. JuJu).  I also don't understand some of these "legal proceedings" against Brown.  There hasn't been any new news on the sexual misconduct allegations since last Fall.  What happened to those matters?  A moving truck driver accident where the charges were "scratches" and "throwing rocks" at the truck.  Please?  I'm not saying that AB doesn't have some screws loose upstairs but I think the NFL needs to stop playing the morality police and allow due process to take its course.  Judging players before the real courts judge them is over the top IMO.  These players don't get long to have an NFL career and shouldn't have it wasted because Goodell gets to decide wrong or right.

 
I don't believe those numbers either.  You're correct; defenses game-planned against AB and allowed themselves to be beat by other players (i.e. JuJu).  I also don't understand some of these "legal proceedings" against Brown.  There hasn't been any new news on the sexual misconduct allegations since last Fall.  What happened to those matters?  A moving truck driver accident where the charges were "scratches" and "throwing rocks" at the truck.  Please?  I'm not saying that AB doesn't have some screws loose upstairs but I think the NFL needs to stop playing the morality police and allow due process to take its course.  Judging players before the real courts judge them is over the top IMO.  These players don't get long to have an NFL career and shouldn't have it wasted because Goodell gets to decide wrong or right.
Just curious. What has Goodell done to Brown exactly? Did he suspend him? Put him on the exempt list? Is that zero game punishment so far too harsh? If AB actually gets some sort of punishment, then maybe people can complain. But for now, he hasn’t missed any time based on league discipline. 

 
I don't believe those numbers either.  You're correct; defenses game-planned against AB and allowed themselves to be beat by other players (i.e. JuJu).  I also don't understand some of these "legal proceedings" against Brown.  There hasn't been any new news on the sexual misconduct allegations since last Fall.  What happened to those matters?  A moving truck driver accident where the charges were "scratches" and "throwing rocks" at the truck.  Please?  I'm not saying that AB doesn't have some screws loose upstairs but I think the NFL needs to stop playing the morality police and allow due process to take its course.  Judging players before the real courts judge them is over the top IMO.  These players don't get long to have an NFL career and shouldn't have it wasted because Goodell gets to decide wrong or right.
The NFL hasn't done a thing yet.  But just because we haven't heard anything he's off the hook?  This is a terrible post.

And AB pulled the driver out of the truck and beat his ###.  There's meat to that story although cash is likely to make it melt away.

 
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It's hard for me to fathom that people actually still think the NFL is not holding up his chance to re-enter the league until they address any possible discipline from what the league has repeatedly said remains an open and on-going investigation. An investigation that has been on-going for 8-9 months.

 
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ESPN 710 Seattle's John Clayton reports Russell Wilson would "love" for the Seahawks to sign free agent Antonio Brown. 

Clayton reports Brown is also "close" to new Seahawks backup Geno Smith. Star quarterbacks apparently keep pounding the table to add Brown, but it remains extremely unlikely for a variety of reasons. Brown has a litany of disturbing off-the-field issues that have never been resolved with the league, while he has burned every single bridge he could over the past 18 months. 31-year-old Brown should still be playing NFL football, but he has made it close to impossible. 

SOURCE: ESPN 710 Seattle 

May 22, 2020, 4:18 PM ET

 
Just curious. What has Goodell done to Brown exactly? Did he suspend him? Put him on the exempt list? Is that zero game punishment so far too harsh? If AB actually gets some sort of punishment, then maybe people can complain. But for now, he hasn’t missed any time based on league discipline. 
I can't feel bad for the man, he deserves whatever he gets. But Goodell and the NFL would have done Brown less damage had they just suspended him, during which time a team wouldn't have to pay him. Instead they basically announce he'll go on the exempt list after he's signed; a team would have to pay him while the investigation is concluded, after which he's possibly suspended anyhow. 

Like I said tho, I have no sympathy for him. He gets what he gets. Do you see what happens Larry?

 
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So I have to make a decision this morning in one of my PPR dynasty leagues. Either cut JJAW and so I can keep AB, or move AB for a 2021 3rd round pick. IF this nut ever plays again, his upside is obviously huge. (I think of people who moved T. Hill for peanuts during his legal woes)...would you cut JJAW to keep AB or move AB for that 3rd??

 
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So I have to make a decision this morning in one of my PPR dynasty leagues. Either cut JJAW and so I can keep AB, or move AB for a 2021 3rd round pick. IF this nut ever plays again, his upside is obviously huge. (I think of people who moved T. Hill for peanuts during his legal woes)...would you cut JJAW to keep AB or move AB for that 3rd??
I'd probably move AB for the 3rd. Not saying JJAW is going to turn into something or not, but I think there's so many questions with AB. Will he sign? When? Where? Does he get put on the exempt list? Does he get suspended? Not he get nutty again and not play much?

 
So I have to make a decision this morning in one of my PPR dynasty leagues. Either cut JJAW and so I can keep AB, or move AB for a 2021 3rd round pick. IF this nut ever plays again, his upside is obviously huge. (I think of people who moved T. Hill for peanuts during his legal woes)...would you cut JJAW to keep AB or move AB for that 3rd??
I'd keep AB. FWIW I've been offering thirds and players of a higher quality then a third for AB for in several leagues for months now to no avail.

JJAW seems pretty close to a lost cause, thirds are nice but AB is a difference maker and despite his age I think he's got a few big years left.

I've said this about a million times but we can't even begin the phase of a team looking to sign him until the league is done with their investigation.  Then any amount of suspension he is possibly facing and money he wants are obstacles that will need to be worked on but provided he's not suspended for the entire season, the only way I don't see him playing next year is if he's can't adjust to what will now be a reduced "prove it" type contract. The biggest item I keep trying to get across to people is he's not in the league because no one wants him, while his list of suitors is small, when the league is done and teams now when he can play he'll have offers.

 
I'd keep AB. FWIW I've been offering thirds and players of a higher quality then a third for AB for in several leagues for months now to no avail.

JJAW seems pretty close to a lost cause, thirds are nice but AB is a difference maker and despite his age I think he's got a few big years left.
I second the thinking here.

 
I got him at the end of one of my FFPC rookie drafts for a future 6th rounder. 

If I could get a 3rd (let alone two of them) I would smash the keyboard. I have zero faith but a 6th rounder was too easy.

 
I'd keep AB. FWIW I've been offering thirds and players of a higher quality then a third for AB for in several leagues for months now to no avail.

JJAW seems pretty close to a lost cause, thirds are nice but AB is a difference maker and despite his age I think he's got a few big years left.

I've said this about a million times but we can't even begin the phase of a team looking to sign him until the league is done with their investigation.  Then any amount of suspension he is possibly facing and money he wants are obstacles that will need to be worked on but provided he's not suspended for the entire season, the only way I don't see him playing next year is if he's can't adjust to what will now be a reduced "prove it" type contract. The biggest item I keep trying to get across to people is he's not in the league because no one wants him, while his list of suitors is small, when the league is done and teams now when he can play he'll have offers.
This.  I spent the 3.02 on him in an FFPC league where he wasn't kept and was pretty surprised to see him on the board still.

Well I got 2 3rd round picks for him in 2021 so I cut bait.  :whistle:
3rd round picks are such long shots I'd MUCH rather gamble on AB finding another team.  The payoff is just multiple levels higher than what those 3rds will likely turn out to be.  Hope it works out for you though.

 
I can't feel bad for the man, he deserves whatever he gets. But Goodell and the NFL would have done Brown less damage had they just suspended him, during which time a team wouldn't have to pay him. Instead they basically announce he'll go on the exempt list after he's signed; a team would have to pay him while the investigation is concluded, after which he's possibly suspended anyhow. 

Like I said tho, I have no sympathy for him. He gets what he gets. Do you see what happens Larry?
The investigation could easily conclude prior to them having to pay him anything.

 
ffmail4me said:
So I have to make a decision this morning in one of my PPR dynasty leagues. Either cut JJAW and so I can keep AB, or move AB for a 2021 3rd round pick. IF this nut ever plays again, his upside is obviously huge. (I think of people who moved T. Hill for peanuts during his legal woes)...would you cut JJAW to keep AB or move AB for that 3rd??
I would keep AB and move JJAW for a 3rd 

 
Antonio Brown has pled no contest to felony battery charges and been sentenced to 100 hours of community service. 

Brown must also serve two years probation and undergo a "mandatory psych evaluation." The charge was related to a January incident where Brown fought with a delivery truck driver outside his Florida home. Brown wants to return to the league, but that ship has sailed. 

SOURCE: Cameron Wolfe on Twitter 

Jun 12, 2020, 2:45 PM ET

 
I really surprised they couldn't get this down to First Degree Misdemeanor. 2 years of probation and all the rules that come with it will make his life hell for the next 2 years. I can't see him following those rules and see a parole violate issue coming up in the future. I wonder if he will be allowed to leave the State, probably for football because it is work related. I can easily see the league suspending him for next year, (for this and the sexual assault charges). 

 

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