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Antonio Brown - Official Thread

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One other thought about the deal - AB should thank Bell (in part) for his new deal. I think one reason they were willing to quickly cut bait was because of last year's sideshow. 

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Just now, pantherclub said:

None of this matters if the raiders don't get a qb. 

This is why I think its not a great deal even though the draft pick cost was cheap.

What does this do to the Raiders record? Take them from 2-14 to 5-11?  That could mean pick 4 or 5 instead of 1 or 2, and could take them out of the running for Tua or Fromm in the 2020 draft. 

They need an elite QB, and this could take them further away from that.  Especially with really promising QB prospects in 2020 and 2021. 

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4 hours ago, irish eyes said:

I'm not the one in here posting 5000 times defending a moron like brown, but I'm the idiot. I think you 2 may be related.

Maybe he got you confused with @irishidiot

Edited by Dr. Octopus

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2 hours ago, Ghost Rider said:

I know, it's awful when a grown adult wants a say in where they work...

Note: This is not a defense of Antonio Brown (who has acted like an ### clown). 

Pretty sure you are taking my statement the wrong way and I probably could have done a better job clarifying. I work and deserve the right to choose where. However, in my job I also have a contract that I agreed upon. If I don’t like that contract later it still holds certain parameters that I previously agreed to. Anyone can dispute anything and that is their right. As a fan I just don’t like the idea of the NFL becoming similar to the NBA where players seemingly pick and choose their destination as I feel like it changes the dynamic of the league as a whole in a negative way. This is strictly from a fan perspective. 

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16 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Something went very wrong in Pittsburgh and I think it's on ownership management. They had one of the best collections of offensive talent ever assembled in the history of the NFL and they pissed it away by refusing to just go all in and pay Bell/Brown. Hof QB,  top 5 all time WR, Perennial All Pro RB, great offensive line. Oh and Juju and James Conner, two of the more promising young skill players. They should be scoring 40 a game every week. 

Bryce Rossler Retweeted Andrew Fillipponi

One of the best RBs actually skipped a year rather than play for the Steelers. One of the best WRs threatened to do the same. They just missed the playoffs, and their declining quarterback has a habit of throwing teammates under the bus. Pittsburgh is a tire fire franchise, too.

Andrew FillipponiVerified account @ThePoniExpress

BREAKING: Professional athletes would rather get $ than win. AB doesn't care that he's going from perennial winner to a tire fire franchise. He's got 30.1 million reasons to like his new address.

8:30 AM - 10 Mar 2019

-----------------------------------

Fans are used to success and see New England getting bargain/inexpensive  FAs  so maybe they think they should get same discount but it isn't happening. 

Good drafting, the FO gets loads of talent but seems like a perennial cloud of drama hangs over the team.  Ben 'likely' plays some role but if they would have come up with $2.5 million more per year for Bell they would have eliminated tons of drama last year and 'probably' win at least one more game and make the playoffs and AB would not have had the platform to act out as much as he did but you are right, something went very wrong in Pittsburgh.

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19 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Something went very wrong in Pittsburgh and I think it's on ownership management. They had one of the best collections of offensive talent ever assembled in the history of the NFL and they pissed it away by refusing to just go all in and pay Bell/Brown. Hof QB,  top 5 all time WR, Perennial All Pro RB, great offensive line. Oh and Juju and James Conner, two of the more promising young skill players. They should be scoring 40 a game every week. 

They didn't win very many playoff games with the Ben/Bell/Brown and never made a super bowl so they "pissed away their window" even when all those players were on the team.  Over paying two players for not winning playoff games was not something the Steelers wanted to do. 

I think they played the Bell situation just fine - couldn't agree on a long term contract, and you know the rest.  The only other option was to pay Bell what he wanted and that is a bad precedent for franchises too - IMO.  They did not play the AB situation optimally, but their hands were tied when AB used social media to grab all the leverage from the Steelers and (apparently) rejected a trade offer from Buffalo.

Paying players whatever they want is not  a recipe for winning super bowls, you have to build a team.  Now, I'm not saying the Steelers are going to win the SB this year or before Ben retires or whatever - but over paying Bell/Brown would not have gotten them there either.

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21 minutes ago, rockaction said:

totally agree with you about Roethlisberger's holding of the ball while Antonio scrambled to get open.

 Evaluating every NFL team's receiving corps: Who needs a WR1?   

Quote

...JuJu Smith-Schuster is a No. 1 and the Steelers need to find the next No. 2 to keep facilitating the situations that earn a team the most yards after the catch in the league (Steelers receivers netted 1,461 last season). One of the ways that having a great 1-2 receiver combination shows up in stats is in deep passing. Last season, Brown had the most touchdowns on deep targets (eight, per NGS) and Smith-Schuster had the seventh-highest passer rating on deep targets (125.5). One more strategic note: Pittsburgh used four wide receivers on the highest percentage of snaps in 2018 (9.7). Thus, the Steelers have the most congruent philosophy with their quarterback's proven skill set when they have a strong 1 AND 2.

AB also gathered a ton of YAC on short slants when given a cushion and that is a bread-and-butter of the WC.

Brown will be fine IMHO if Carr can  take to Gruden's aggressive coaching.

Pittsburgh needs a legit #2 to step-up to be Ju-Ju's wing man and they probably need a 4th WR for Pittsburgh's passing offense to continue without any hiccups.

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1 hour ago, Heatman said:

The problem with trading for a great player and getting a great deal because he is a headache to his former team is, you are now stuck with said headache.

It will be interesting to see how Gruden takes to his antics.

And that Raider locker room was already shaky at best

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10 minutes ago, pantherclub said:

None of this matters if the raiders don't get a qb. 

They have something like 4 of the top 40 picks. They could completely revolutionize their offense by getting Kyler, Hockensen, AJ Brown and Josh Jacobs. 

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9 minutes ago, Steeler said:

They didn't win very many playoff games with the Ben/Bell/Brown and never made a super bowl so they "pissed away their window" even when all those players were on the team.  Over paying two players for not winning playoff games was not something the Steelers wanted to do. 

I think they played the Bell situation just fine - couldn't agree on a long term contract, and you know the rest.  The only other option was to pay Bell what he wanted and that is a bad precedent for franchises too - IMO.  They did not play the AB situation optimally, but their hands were tied when AB used social media to grab all the leverage from the Steelers and (apparently) rejected a trade offer from Buffalo.

Paying players whatever they want is not  a recipe for winning super bowls, you have to build a team.  Now, I'm not saying the Steelers are going to win the SB this year or before Ben retires or whatever - but over paying Bell/Brown would not have gotten them there either.

I get that but didn't they have the team built? With a 37 year old HOF QB, I would think a GM would want to go all in on 1 or 2 more years for a final SB run. You are right that they hadn't won many playoff games but maybe that means a coaching change is needed? Also I think in theory last year and this year would be their prime year as they finally found 2 other players to supplement the offense. Martavis never panned out but Juju looks incredible and Conner is talented too. There was so much potential there that management couldn't harness to it's full potential. 

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48 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Something went very wrong in Pittsburgh and I think it's on ownership management. They had one of the best collections of offensive talent ever assembled in the history of the NFL and they pissed it away by refusing to just go all in and pay Bell/Brown. Hof QB,  top 5 all time WR, Perennial All Pro RB, great offensive line. Oh and Juju and James Conner, two of the more promising young skill players. They should be scoring 40 a game every week. 

They made Brown the highest paid receiver in the NFL. They made an offer to Bell that would make him the highest paid RB in the NFL. It's not like the Steelers were giving/offering chump change.

I'm trying to think of an NFL team that has paid a top 5 WR and won a Super Bowl.

Edited by GroveDiesel
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Looks like Bell and Brown will be teammates again, in Oakland. 

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8 minutes ago, GroveDiesel said:

They made Brown the highest paid receiver in the NFL. They made an offer to Bell that would make him the highest paid RB in the NFL. It's not like the Steelers were giving/offering chump change.

It wasn't bad but I think by this point Alshon and Jarvis Landry had bigger deals than AB. 

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2 minutes ago, Tejas said:

Looks like Bell and Brown will be teammates again, in Oakland. 

If they did this and used those 4 premium picks on D would everyone still assume the Raiders can't be winners?

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3 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

It wasn't bad but I think by this point Alshon and Jarvis Landry had bigger deals than AB. 

That's always going to happen with an expanding cap though. If a player believes he deserves to be the highest paid player, he is going to have to sign a series of one year deals making him the highest paid guy every year. But players aren't going to take the risk of getting hurt. But they want the best of both worlds when it's not realistic. Except in this case where the Steelers gave in of course.

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3 hours ago, Ack88 said:

The QB situations in those places is putrid.

Carr, IMO, is better than all of them.

Oh I misread your quote then.  I thought you said Oakland was a worse position than those other 3 places.

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How incredible would this be if Steelers reneged on the deal?

Gerry Dulac‏Verified account @gerrydulac

Steelers source emphasizes AB trade is agreement only and “it’s never over till it’s over.”

Aditi Kinkhabwala‏Verified account

Aditi Kinkhabwala Retweeted Gerry Dulac

I was told exactly the same thing by a member of the #Steelers organization this am. I don’t believe it’s the same person who told Gerry that and that makes it all the more interesting...

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4 minutes ago, menobrown said:

How incredible would this be if Steelers reneged on the deal?

Gerry Dulac‏Verified account @gerrydulac

Steelers source emphasizes AB trade is agreement only and “it’s never over till it’s over.”

Aditi Kinkhabwala‏Verified account

Aditi Kinkhabwala Retweeted Gerry Dulac

I was told exactly the same thing by a member of the #Steelers organization this am. I don’t believe it’s the same person who told Gerry that and that makes it all the more interesting...

Well, the deal COULD be contingent on receiving no better offer...

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31 minutes ago, menobrown said:

If they did this and used those 4 premium picks on D would everyone still assume the Raiders can't be winners?

carr

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51 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

They have something like 4 of the top 40 picks. They could completely revolutionize their offense by getting Kyler, Hockensen, AJ Brown and Josh Jacobs. 

How are they going to land all of those players?

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5 minutes ago, pantherclub said:

How are they going to land all of those players?

...the draft??

its conceivable that AZ doesnt take Kyler #1. they could take hockenson and Jacobs with their other 2 1st rounders and Brown at the top of round 2. Its very possible

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8 minutes ago, pantherclub said:

carr

Not a fan of his game to be honest but with him as QB they did got 12-4 and he finished in top 5 MVP voting so hard to say it's not possible with him as QB.

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3 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

...the draft??

its conceivable that AZ doesnt take Kyler #1. they could take hockenson and Jacobs with their other 2 1st rounders and Brown at the top of round 2. Its very possible

I doubt its possible at all that Kyler falls to 4

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45 minutes ago, menobrown said:

If they did this and used those 4 premium picks on D would everyone still assume the Raiders can't be winners?

Elite players at the offensive skill positions doesn't guarantee much.  Look at Pittsburgh, who had these guys in their prime.

How much tread is left?  Bell had a year off... and RBs are no guarantee to finish a season.   Yes, Brown has been great but how much will average QB play affect his game?  Maybe Brown will be motivated; a player trying to prove his old team made a mistake.  Maybe age and his attitude bring him down too...

Even if all goes well, that is a competitive division.  Chiefs seem much closer to a SB run and the Chargers are very capable.  I don't think the Broncos stay down for long either...

I had concerns Gruden was away from the game for too long.  But, I do have to give the Raiders credit.  They finished the season playing competitively when they could have mailed it in. 

Edited by DropKick

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7 minutes ago, pantherclub said:

I doubt its possible at all that Kyler falls to 4

just 2 weeks ago he was mocked to miami...  anything is possible. several years ago it "wasn't possible" for Aaron Rodgers to fall out of the top 5

Edited by Dr. Dan

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5 minutes ago, DropKick said:

Elite players at the offensive skill positions doesn't guarantee much.  Look at Pittsburgh, who had these guys in their prime.

How much tread is left?  Bell had a year off... and RBs are no guarantee to finish a season.   Yes, Brown has been great but how much will average QB play affect his game?  Maybe Brown will be motivated; a player trying to prove his old team made a mistake.  Maybe age and his attitude bring him down too...

Even if all goes well, that is a competitive division.  Chiefs seem much closer to a SB run and the Chargers are very capable.  I don't think the Broncos stay down for long either...

I had concerns Gruden was away from the game for too long.  But, I do have to give the Raiders credit.  They finished the season playing competitively when they could have mailed it in. 

I think by mid-season Brown is going to miss Big Ben.   Ben is a doosh but he knows the game and how to get the ball to his playmakers,

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10 minutes ago, DropKick said:

Elite players at the offensive skill positions doesn't guarantee much.  Look at Pittsburgh, who had these guys in their prime.

 

But when he leaves Pitts for Oakland he is criticized for not caring about winning so if you use that as a comp.....

Also to be clear I don't think he does care about winning,  he may not like losing but winning on not on the top of his priority list.  But I think Raiders might be surprisingly competitive with him depending on what they do in the draft.

I'd also not sign Bell if I was them, just saying if they do with 4 premium picks in a defensive loaded draft they could drastically improve both sides of the ball.

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6 hours ago, cloppbeast said:

This is shtick right? When we're talking about a GM with like .620 winning percentage, 2 superbowls, 3 AFC championships, like 8 division titles.... yeah this is schtick.

Is anything in my post not true? Sure he has a great record long term but these last 2 years have been bad. He failed miserably. 

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18 minutes ago, menobrown said:

But when he leaves Pitts for Oakland he is criticized for not caring about winning so if you use that as a comp.....

Also to be clear I don't think he does care about winning,  he may not like losing but winning on not on the top of his priority list.  But I think Raiders might be surprisingly competitive with him depending on what they do in the draft.

I'd also not sign Bell if I was them, just saying if they do with 4 premium picks in a defensive loaded draft they could drastically improve both sides of the ball.

I wouldn't sign Bell if I was them either but you make a good point. They still need a QB......

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54 minutes ago, menobrown said:

How incredible would this be if Steelers reneged on the deal?

Gerry Dulac‏Verified account @gerrydulac

Steelers source emphasizes AB trade is agreement only and “it’s never over till it’s over.”

Aditi Kinkhabwala‏Verified account

Aditi Kinkhabwala Retweeted Gerry Dulac

I was told exactly the same thing by a member of the #Steelers organization this am. I don’t believe it’s the same person who told Gerry that and that makes it all the more interesting...

There would probably be oh, about 31 teams that would be reluctant to deal with the Steelers in the future.

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4 minutes ago, Enderdog said:

There would probably be oh, about 31 teams that would be reluctant to deal with the Steelers in the future.

Maybe there is more to the deal. 

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2 hours ago, King of the Jungle said:

Pretty sure you are taking my statement the wrong way and I probably could have done a better job clarifying. I work and deserve the right to choose where. However, in my job I also have a contract that I agreed upon. If I don’t like that contract later it still holds certain parameters that I previously agreed to. Anyone can dispute anything and that is their right. As a fan I just don’t like the idea of the NFL becoming similar to the NBA where players seemingly pick and choose their destination as I feel like it changes the dynamic of the league as a whole in a negative way. This is strictly from a fan perspective. 

I get what you are saying, and Brown doing it the way he did was awful and completely screwed the Steelers, but player movement is not a bad thing.  I hate this idea that any player drafted in the NFL can basically be stuck with that team for like 5 or 6 years (thanks to franchise tagging and whatnot).  History has shown that situation and what team you are drafted by does matter more often than not, and it's hard not to feel bad for those great players coming out of college who get drafted into a bad situation and/or an inept franchise and thus have a much lesser chance of succeeding. 

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3 minutes ago, menobrown said:

But when he leaves Pitts for Oakland he is criticized for not caring about winning so if you use that as a comp.....

Also to be clear I don't think he does care about winning,  he may not like losing but winning on not on the top of his priority list.  But I think Raiders might be surprisingly competitive with him depending on what they do in the draft.

I'd also not sign Bell if I was them, just saying if they do with 4 premium picks in a defensive loaded draft they could drastically improve both sides of the ball.

Brown is just the latest in a long list of diva WRs.   His contract seems reasonable and he did have three years remaining.  I think his complaints on that front are unwarranted.  Apparently, his relationship with Ben was a big part of the problem and I understand how that could frustrate AB.  The one thing that really bothers me is he couldn't share the spotlight with Juju.  Tough to win as a team with guys like that...

Sure, the Raiders could be competitive.   Gruden is locked in for the long haul.  AFC could change a lot in the next few years.  Pats always in the mix but their window is getting small.   Brady, Roethlisberger and Rivers  could all be near the end.  Chiefs could be dominant but the Colts and maybe the Browns are ready to take it to the next level.  At least, all three teams are stable at QB.   Of course, there is always the possibility of a dark horse, who is more fitting than the Raiders?

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2 hours ago, Bracie Smathers said:

AB also gathered a ton of YAC on short slants when given a cushion and that is a bread-and-butter of the WC.

Brown will be fine IMHO if Carr can  take to Gruden's aggressive coaching.

I keep seeing this narrative in this thread and on Twitter. This a lazy take. Considering the surrounding talent LY Carr had a very good season under Gruden. Carr threw for 4,000 yds and had a career best 7.3 YPA. Granted his TD total was disappointing but again he had very little help at the WR position. Carr also had two rookie tackles protecting him. I doubt many QBs could do much better under those conditions. If AB crashes and burns with Raiders Carr will not be the reason.

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1 minute ago, Andrew74 said:

In dynasty, I just got offered the 1.10 for AB.   

OUCH!   I'm sure you politely declined.

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2 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

OUCH!   I'm sure you politely declined.

Yes, after I laughed for a while. 

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Congrats to AB. System disruption is a great thing. Hope more guys start to understand their worth. 

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23 minutes ago, Capella said:

Congrats to AB. System disruption is a great thing. Hope more guys start to understand their worth. 

How would you feel if Mike Evans forces his way out of TB?

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2 hours ago, Ghost Rider said:

I get what you are saying, and Brown doing it the way he did was awful and completely screwed the Steelers, but player movement is not a bad thing.  I hate this idea that any player drafted in the NFL can basically be stuck with that team for like 5 or 6 years (thanks to franchise tagging and whatnot).  History has shown that situation and what team you are drafted by does matter more often than not, and it's hard not to feel bad for those great players coming out of college who get drafted into a bad situation and/or an inept franchise and thus have a much lesser chance of succeeding. 

I 100% agree about the length of contract in regards to tagging for sure. It is a ludicrous process that gives the team too much power over the player and should be done away with IMO. Again as a fan, I am just hoping we don’t start seeing too much of “I am not happy” and forcing the teams hand under contract (and then being able to dictate where they go by refusing certain options.) IMO there still needs to be a employer-employee hierarchy much like there is in the real world in order to keep the sport interesting and structural enough to keep fans from going bonkers.

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3 minutes ago, Max Power said:

I can only wonder how Gruden reacts when Brown acts like Brown. 

The exact opposite way he reacted to Crabtree and King?

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7 minutes ago, Enderdog said:

The exact opposite way he reacted to Crabtree and King?

I'm out of the loop on this one.  He doesn't strike me as the type to let a single player value themselves over the team, but that could have been years of coach speak from the booth.  I really don't know.

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15 minutes ago, Steeler said:

How would you feel if Mike Evans forces his way out of TB?

lol pleeeeeeenty of people have left Tampa sports teams in search of more money. Doesn’t bother me at all (except for the cheap ownership).  

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1 hour ago, Capella said:

Congrats to AB. System disruption is a great thing. Hope more guys start to understand their worth. 

Wouldn't all the dead cap space this stuff creates actually lead to less money being paid out to players overall?

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6 hours ago, rockaction said:

Great point. Haley ran the WCO and Roethlisberger hated it. I don't know about AB. He seemed to thrive even within its confines, though I totally agree with you about Roethlisberger's holding of the ball while Antonio scrambled to get open. Will Carr do that?   

But that's not really relevant.  Roethlisberger isn't in Oakland, Carr is.  And as long as Carr's running it well AB is going to eat.

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