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Antonio Brown - Out of his Head - Out of the League

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Fencer response. He shouldn't play again this postseason. Unfortunately. And, unfortunately, they'll make him.

He will want to play.

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I'm no doctor, but I watch a lot of amateur MMA. I know a knock-oit when i see one. Antonio Brown was KTFO. His body went completely limp after the hit, he made no motions to brace himself when he went to the ground. Completely unconscious.

If he was a fighter, he wouldn't be in the ring for at least 3 months. At least. Shouldn't even be practicing for a couple of weeks.

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Apparently he was smiling and dancing in the locker room after the game. I don't think he acted on the field at all, but maybe the hit looked worse than it was. Heck, it had to look worse than it was because it looked as though he could have died right there on the field. He's playing on Sunday, I bet.

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I have no idea what the "protocol" stuff entails with concussion. I guarantee Brown will fake what ever he can to get on the field.

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Apparently he was smiling and dancing in the locker room after the game. I don't think he acted on the field at all, but maybe the hit looked worse than it was. Heck, it had to look worse than it was because it looked as though he could have died right there on the field. He's playing on Sunday, I bet.

Rewatch the hit. He went into the Fencer Response. That cannot be faked.

Any player that goes into the Fencer Response should sit 4 weeks automatically.

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Apparently he was smiling and dancing in the locker room after the game. I don't think he acted on the field at all, but maybe the hit looked worse than it was. Heck, it had to look worse than it was because it looked as though he could have died right there on the field. He's playing on Sunday, I bet.

Rewatch the hit. He went into the Fencer Response. That cannot be faked.

Any player that goes into the Fencer Response should sit 4 weeks automatically.

Just googled that. I never knew there was a name for that. Have noticed that arm thing for years.

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Rotoworld:

Antonio Brown - WR - Steelers

ESPN's Adam Schefter confirms Antonio Brown is in the league's concussion protocol.

Pacman Jones ludicrously claimed Brown was faking his concussion after getting laid low by a savage Vontaze Burfict cheap shot. He isn't, but the early signs have suggested he'll be ready for the Divisional Round. His status will be updated throughout the week.

Source: Adam Schefter on Twitter

Jan 11 - 1:42 PM

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Here is an apparent post game video that shows him looking fairly okay in spite of the head blow he suffered. http://pit.247sports.com/Bolt/WATCH-concussed-Antonio-Brown-celebrate-after-win-over-Bengals-42710536

Don't they always?

I mean maybe a groggy walk to the sideline or some clumsiness or something for the first few minutes but after that, don't they always appear OK?

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Here is an apparent post game video that shows him looking fairly okay in spite of the head blow he suffered. http://pit.247sports.com/Bolt/WATCH-concussed-Antonio-Brown-celebrate-after-win-over-Bengals-42710536

Don't they always?

I mean maybe a groggy walk to the sideline or some clumsiness or something for the first few minutes but after that, don't they always appear OK?

If this is his first one, he'd likely be a bit better. The folks like Jordan Reed that miss multiple weeks, likely don't appear OK and as happy as he did.

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Brown has the chance to play.

I've been knocked unconscious a few times and each one was varying recovery, some quick some linger

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Rotoworld:

Antonio Brown - WR - Steelers

ESPN's Adam Schefter confirms Antonio Brown is in the league's concussion protocol.

Pacman Jones ludicrously claimed Brown was faking his concussion after getting laid low by a savage Vontaze Burfict cheap shot. He isn't, but the early signs have suggested he'll be ready for the Divisional Round. His status will be updated throughout the week.

Source: Adam Schefter on Twitter

Jan 11 - 1:42 PM

It is hard to believe that Dr. Pacman could have made a mistake.

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Rotoworld:

Antonio Brown - WR - Steelers

ESPN's Adam Schefter confirms Antonio Brown is in the league's concussion protocol.

Pacman Jones ludicrously claimed Brown was faking his concussion after getting laid low by a savage Vontaze Burfict cheap shot. He isn't, but the early signs have suggested he'll be ready for the Divisional Round. His status will be updated throughout the week.

Source: Adam Schefter on Twitter

Jan 11 - 1:42 PM

It is hard to believe that Dr. Pacman could have made a mistake.

:lol:

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If the league has one ounce of sincerity in their policy on safeguarding the safety of players, they will not let him play this week (and no, I'm not rooting for the broncos :) ).

When you hear, ad naseum from the NFL's own mouth how serious concussions are and how long they can linger (and you see other players, like Luke Kuechly, sit for almost a month after his first), I just don't know how you can watch a man get literally knocked out on the field and remain like that for 10 minutes and then thing he is completely normal in 6 days. It just cannot be.

I know all people are different and some can take more and some can recover faster, etc, but if you are knocked out on the field of play and diagnosed with a concussion, then I think the league has to keep the player out at least a week simply to support the integrity of the protocol to give it any credence whatsoever that they are thinking about player first.

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Here is an apparent post game video that shows him looking fairly okay in spite of the head blow he suffered. http://pit.247sports.com/Bolt/WATCH-concussed-Antonio-Brown-celebrate-after-win-over-Bengals-42710536

Don't they always?

I mean maybe a groggy walk to the sideline or some clumsiness or something for the first few minutes but after that, don't they always appear OK?

Exactly. Behavior some time after doesn't really mean anything in terms of the injury itself.

Guys with torn ACLs walk on them fine afterward (one of the signs of how bad the ACL tear is, actually, is how easy it is to walk on). Hell, Donovan McNabb broke a leg and stayed in the game and played on it for a full half.

To me, Brown showed signs of the fencing response, which is far more indicative of severity (and, that it was real, thanks PacMan) than how he was acting an hour later in the locker room.

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If the league has one ounce of sincerity in their policy on safeguarding the safety of players, they will not let him play this week (and no, I'm not rooting for the broncos :) ).

When you hear, ad naseum from the NFL's own mouth how serious concussions are and how long they can linger (and you see other players, like Luke Kuechly, sit for almost a month after his first), I just don't know how you can watch a man get literally knocked out on the field and remain like that for 10 minutes and then thing he is completely normal in 6 days. It just cannot be.

I know all people are different and some can take more and some can recover faster, etc, but if you are knocked out on the field of play and diagnosed with a concussion, then I think the league has to keep the player out at least a week simply to support the integrity of the protocol to give it any credence whatsoever that they are thinking about player first.

I feel this way too, which is why I keep bringing up the fencer response. So many parts of the concussion protocol are subjective... guys will try to lie and get around the rules, doctors will feel pressured to make questionable calls go the team's way, etc. So much subjectivity in judging concussion severity. But the fencer response is objective. It's an obvious, sure-fire indication of a concussion, and moreso, and indicator of a greater-than-moderate concussion. It is automatic, performed at the unconscious level of the brain stem, immediate, and obvious. It means you're hurt, and hurt bad. There should be no dancing around an obvious injury such as this.

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Rotoworld:

Antonio Brown - WR - Steelers

ESPN's Adam Schefter confirms Antonio Brown is in the league's concussion protocol.

Pacman Jones ludicrously claimed Brown was faking his concussion after getting laid low by a savage Vontaze Burfict cheap shot. He isn't, but the early signs have suggested he'll be ready for the Divisional Round. His status will be updated throughout the week.

Source: Adam Schefter on Twitter

Jan 11 - 1:42 PM

It is hard to believe that Dr. Pacman could have made a mistake.

Well, in fairness, he's not a medical doctor. He has a PhD in computational biology from Cal-Berkeley.

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If the league has one ounce of sincerity in their policy on safeguarding the safety of players, they will not let him play this week (and no, I'm not rooting for the broncos :) ).

When you hear, ad naseum from the NFL's own mouth how serious concussions are and how long they can linger (and you see other players, like Luke Kuechly, sit for almost a month after his first), I just don't know how you can watch a man get literally knocked out on the field and remain like that for 10 minutes and then thing he is completely normal in 6 days. It just cannot be.

I know all people are different and some can take more and some can recover faster, etc, but if you are knocked out on the field of play and diagnosed with a concussion, then I think the league has to keep the player out at least a week simply to support the integrity of the protocol to give it any credence whatsoever that they are thinking about player first.

I agree. This will be a test of how sincere the NFL really is. Brown was either brutally knocked unconscious or he wasn't. There should be no gray area if these rules are truly there for player safety. If he does play I would tend to believe he did flop, or at the very least went looking for contact after he knew it was uncatchable.

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Who knows if he'll play. Early week optimism means nothing.

But if he passes the concussion protocol, it sounds like some people are really expecting the NFL to step in and say, "Look, I know you passed the tests you needed to pass, but we're not going to let you play anyways."

Fencing responses and being unconscious or not... none of that matters. Guys come back quickly from concussions all the time, especially if they don't have a history of it. What will matter is if he passes the concussion protocol that the league put in place, and if he does, I'd expect that he'll be out there against Denver. If not, he won't. The league put that process in place and I'm sure that's the standard Brown will be held to, no more and no less.

You can't fake his response to the hit, but if he's back it doesn't mean he flopped. It would mean he recovered from it quickly enough to pass the league's test and play 8 days later. And I'll trust independent neorologists over random people posting on a message board as to how safe that would be.

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http://www.athleticbusiness.com/athlete-safety/concussion-protocol-keeps-nfl-players-sidelined.html

Average time to being cleared has jumped from 6 to 8 to 9/10 days over the last three years. Brown has almost 8 days between Saturday night and late Sunday afternoon. It'll be tight but hardly a crazy upset if he's cleared in time. According to this article from October:

Ellenbogen said more than half the players who have suffered concussions this season have not been cleared to return by the following week, and he estimated the typical time for a return is nine to 10 days. When reported concussions in the NFL dropped 36% last season, the average time to return was eight days, according to the league's figures. In 2012 and 2013, the average return was six days.

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Who knows if he'll play. Early week optimism means nothing.

But if he passes the concussion protocol, it sounds like some people are really expecting the NFL to step in and say, "Look, I know you passed the tests you needed to pass, but we're not going to let you play anyways."

Fencing responses and being unconscious or not... none of that matters. Guys come back quickly from concussions all the time, especially if they don't have a history of it. What will matter is if he passes the concussion protocol that the league put in place, and if he does, I'd expect that he'll be out there against Denver. If not, he won't. The league put that process in place and I'm sure that's the standard Brown will be held to, no more and no less.

You can't fake his response to the hit, but if he's back it doesn't mean he flopped. It would mean he recovered from it quickly enough to pass the league's test and play 8 days later. And I'll trust independent neorologists over random people posting on a message board as to how safe that would be.

I won't. If he passes the protocol, it would make me question the entire processes. There is no way you can be KTFO and have all of your marbles 8 days later.
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http://www.athleticbusiness.com/athlete-safety/concussion-protocol-keeps-nfl-players-sidelined.html

Average time to being cleared has jumped from 6 to 8 to 9/10 days over the last three years. Brown has almost 8 days between Saturday night and late Sunday afternoon. It'll be tight but hardly a crazy upset if he's cleared in time. According to this article from October:

Ellenbogen said more than half the players who have suffered concussions this season have not been cleared to return by the following week, and he estimated the typical time for a return is nine to 10 days. When reported concussions in the NFL dropped 36% last season, the average time to return was eight days, according to the league's figures. In 2012 and 2013, the average return was six days.

AB was out cold. In terms of severety, his trauma was above average.

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I was snowboarding hit a ramp landed wrong and was out cold.

Was back boarding an hour later

IT CAN Be DONE :P

Edited by belljr

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Who knows if he'll play. Early week optimism means nothing.

But if he passes the concussion protocol, it sounds like some people are really expecting the NFL to step in and say, "Look, I know you passed the tests you needed to pass, but we're not going to let you play anyways."

Fencing responses and being unconscious or not... none of that matters. Guys come back quickly from concussions all the time, especially if they don't have a history of it. What will matter is if he passes the concussion protocol that the league put in place, and if he does, I'd expect that he'll be out there against Denver. If not, he won't. The league put that process in place and I'm sure that's the standard Brown will be held to, no more and no less.

You can't fake his response to the hit, but if he's back it doesn't mean he flopped. It would mean he recovered from it quickly enough to pass the league's test and play 8 days later. And I'll trust independent neorologists over random people posting on a message board as to how safe that would be.

I won't. If he passes the protocol, it would make me question the entire processes. There is no way you can be KTFO and have all of your marbles 8 days later.

From what I've read, 8 days is plenty. The issue as I remember is that for a while he is highly susceptible to reinjury and that if he gets another concussion it is also likely to be more significant.

I wanna guess the risk of reinjury goes down 8% a week if total recovery is roughly 3 months.

Didn't Welker get a concussion 2 or 3 games one playoff year?

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If the league has one ounce of sincerity in their policy on safeguarding the safety of players, they will not let him play this week (and no, I'm not rooting for the broncos :) ).

When you hear, ad naseum from the NFL's own mouth how serious concussions are and how long they can linger (and you see other players, like Luke Kuechly, sit for almost a month after his first), I just don't know how you can watch a man get literally knocked out on the field and remain like that for 10 minutes and then thing he is completely normal in 6 days. It just cannot be.

I know all people are different and some can take more and some can recover faster, etc, but if you are knocked out on the field of play and diagnosed with a concussion, then I think the league has to keep the player out at least a week simply to support the integrity of the protocol to give it any credence whatsoever that they are thinking about player first.

I love the toughness of Big Ben coming back in even if to wing some passes. I applaud guys that tough out injuries to play in playoff games.

I love how exciting Antonio is and is a joy to watch, but I gotta say I agree. Whatever in me that applauds the tough guy mentality for Big Ben (or whomever, he was just right there is all) is not in any way present for a concussion.

I don't think Bryant and Wheaton are half the route runners Brown is and don't even really see them doing too too much successfully. They're both blazing fast so they've got the deep threat and that short catch N run that they do well. Bryant has played a ton of snaps and I can't even think of many common routes where he caught a pass. He runs em' but...well maybe it's just me and the games I saw. I don't think they have a chance against the Broncos without AB. They're an excellent D.

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ESPN's Bob Holtzman reports Antonio Brown (concussion) is "not looking good" for the Divisional Round against the Broncos.

He could be faking 'not looking good'. Someone needs to check with pacman for verification.

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Everything about this is perfect. It is also more evidence of why Antonio is the fantasy's most enjoyable player to own...it's not just the ridiculous numbers, but the fun of watching the style and humor with which he carries himself on and off the field.

Bottom line--it really stinks what happened to him on Saturday and anyone who is defending the hit is as deranged as Pacman.

http://uproxx.com/sports/antonio-brown-torches-adam-pac-man-jones/

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If the league has one ounce of sincerity in their policy on safeguarding the safety of players, they will not let him play this week (and no, I'm not rooting for the broncos :) ).

When you hear, ad naseum from the NFL's own mouth how serious concussions are and how long they can linger (and you see other players, like Luke Kuechly, sit for almost a month after his first), I just don't know how you can watch a man get literally knocked out on the field and remain like that for 10 minutes and then thing he is completely normal in 6 days. It just cannot be.

I know all people are different and some can take more and some can recover faster, etc, but if you are knocked out on the field of play and diagnosed with a concussion, then I think the league has to keep the player out at least a week simply to support the integrity of the protocol to give it any credence whatsoever that they are thinking about player first.

With that said....he is playing.

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http://www.athleticbusiness.com/athlete-safety/concussion-protocol-keeps-nfl-players-sidelined.html

Average time to being cleared has jumped from 6 to 8 to 9/10 days over the last three years. Brown has almost 8 days between Saturday night and late Sunday afternoon. It'll be tight but hardly a crazy upset if he's cleared in time. According to this article from October:

Ellenbogen said more than half the players who have suffered concussions this season have not been cleared to return by the following week, and he estimated the typical time for a return is nine to 10 days. When reported concussions in the NFL dropped 36% last season, the average time to return was eight days, according to the league's figures. In 2012 and 2013, the average return was six days.

AB was out cold. In terms of severety, his trauma was above average.

I bet they try to play him anyway. Hopefully the NFL steps in and does the right thing here.

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So lets say he legitimately passes all the testing. I'm not here to argue whether they skewed results etc.

A honest to goodness evaluation and he really passes the test,

You guys think he still shouldn't play?

Edited by belljr

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So lets say he legitimately passes all the testing. I'm not here to argue whether they skewed results etc.

A honest to goodness evaluation and he really passes the test,

You guys think he still shouldn't play?

As a football fan, I want to see him play; he's an exciting player. Without him, I think this game is fairly one-sided, and Denver wins in a game without much drama.

As a person, talking specifically about his long-term mental health, he shouldn't play. From everything I understand, having multiple concussions in a short time frame is MUCH worse than having 1 isolated concussion, or even multiple concussions separated by great(er) periods of time. While 8 days may be sufficient for him to pass the tests they administer, it probably isn't enough time, with regards to safety.

Edited by Bayhawks

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So lets say he legitimately passes all the testing. I'm not here to argue whether they skewed results etc.

A honest to goodness evaluation and he really passes the test,

You guys think he still shouldn't play?

The Steelers fan in me wants him to play.

The kind-hearted human being in me wants him to sit.

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Anyone think Antonio's status will be tied to Ben's; he plays if Ben's a go and sits if Ben does the same, regardless of the obvious issues with a decision like this?

Edited by Neofight

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So lets say he legitimately passes all the testing. I'm not here to argue whether they skewed results etc.

A honest to goodness evaluation and he really passes the test,

You guys think he still shouldn't play?

As a football fan, I want to see him play; he's an exciting player. Without him, I think this game is fairly one-sided, and Denver wins in a game without much drama.

As a person, talking specifically about his long-term mental health, he shouldn't play. From everything I understand, having multiple concussions in a short time frame is MUCH worse than having 1 isolated concussion, or even multiple concussions separated by great(er) periods of time. While 8 days may be sufficient for him to pass the tests they administer, it probably isn't enough time, with regards to safety.

I doubt the bolded will be the case regardless. If you look at Denver's season, almost all of their games have been close and dramatic. They're a very good defensive team but they're not going to put up a ton of points.

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Anyone think Antonio's status will be tied to Ben'she plays if Ben's a go and sits if Ben does the sameregardless of the obvious issues with a decision like this?

I think if he passes the protocol, he plays. if he doesn't, he sits. I think it's really as simple as that :shrug:

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Anyone think Antonio's status will be tied to Ben'she plays if Ben's a go and sits if Ben does the sameregardless of the obvious issues with a decision like this?

Not remotely. Either guy is going to play independent of the other if he can.

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3 tidbits I picked from Dr. Chao regarding Brown:

1. Severity of the hit that caused the concussion has zero bearing on recovery time.

2. Reports yesterday that Brown looked doubtful really did not mean much since no player is ever going to be cleared in day 2 and no way of knowing what next few days will bring.

3. He often states concussions are like snowflakes, no two the same.

So my conclusion is we don't know anything yet but if you based his chances of playing this week based on severity of the hit and negative news yesterday you had to feel like chances were fairly remote and this information I find much more encouraging.

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Who knows if he'll play. Early week optimism means nothing.

But if he passes the concussion protocol, it sounds like some people are really expecting the NFL to step in and say, "Look, I know you passed the tests you needed to pass, but we're not going to let you play anyways."

Fencing responses and being unconscious or not... none of that matters. Guys come back quickly from concussions all the time, especially if they don't have a history of it. What will matter is if he passes the concussion protocol that the league put in place, and if he does, I'd expect that he'll be out there against Denver. If not, he won't. The league put that process in place and I'm sure that's the standard Brown will be held to, no more and no less.

You can't fake his response to the hit, but if he's back it doesn't mean he flopped. It would mean he recovered from it quickly enough to pass the league's test and play 8 days later. And I'll trust independent neorologists over random people posting on a message board as to how safe that would be.

I won't. If he passes the protocol, it would make me question the entire processes. There is no way you can be KTFO and have all of your marbles 8 days later.

completely agree. And, if nothing else, there is absolutely nothing wrong with erring on the side of caution to protect a person and make sure IF your true mission is to protect the safety of the person, as the NFL claims.

If I am a prosecuting attorney and I am scheduled to go to court to try a guy for killing a pedestrian with his car and let's say a week before trial my son gets killed by a person driving a car in a similar fashion. Sure, I can probably pass nay protocol my firm has for ensuring biases or prejudices aren't injected into the trial process but I can guarantee you any partner in that firm worth a penny would immediately say "uh uh. You may pass on paper but we all know you're too close on this one. You're pulled." There is a common sense approach to caring after a person long-term and this in one of those.

There is simply no way he can be unconscious on the field as long as he was, demonstrating a fencer response, and somehow is completely and absolutely normal a week later. There is probably no way the observation technology knows that answer in such a short window and of the two things we DO know, we know that NOT taking another hit this weekend is better than subjecting him to several tackles.

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I don't know I've been knocked unconscious multiple times and each time was different recovery wise. one time was a few days. couple times for a few weeks but that might be what explains what's wrong with me lol

Also back then I was still doing stuff when I probably shouldn't have during the recovery. Meaning I stilldidn't el hundred percent but kept going

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Who is the Dr. that makes the call on if he plays or not? I'm assuming he is assigned by the league and isn't a Steelers paid employee? And is it just one Dr. or a team of experts?

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