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Antonio Brown - Out of his Head - Out of the League

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5 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

 Reportedly there were many witnesses to the incident.  I have not heard that the incident was in dispute. 

 Where did you hear that Antonio Brown denied it? 

all those reports are just espn saying the have a unreported source. I have yet to hear of one actual witness anyways.  Just saying it would be impossible to suspend someone for he said she said stuff.  Video or tape, I would be more likely to agree with you. 

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18 minutes ago, ILUVBEER99 said:

if i ever meet someone who is offended by being called a cracker i will just laugh at them.  i doubt that ever happens though since nobody is offended by it.

I didn't realize no one in the world was offended by that. It must not be an offensive term, then. 

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2 hours ago, Jello_Biafra said:

Yeah, a black man makes a big deal out of it and a white guy doesn't give a #### what anyone calls him.

You should be banned for a comment like this. Showing a little too much of yourself with this one. 

Edit: Unless I'm misinterpreting what you're saying here. In which case, my bad. But what you're saying seems like trivializing. 

Edited by ConnSKINS26
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2 hours ago, Kevrunner said:

I think Antonio Brown decided afterwards that he didn’t want to be a Raider.  At first he was gung-ho, working out with David Carr right away, on their own time, then something changed his mind and he wanted out, not sure if it was only because of the fines or not.

That's really the semantics now. Whether he wanted out before or after. Either way, the deal with NE was done months ago.

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2 hours ago, mozzy84 said:

Totally forced. People saying he should be suspended for that are “cracking” me up honestly.  Totally reaching for something to complain about.  

So f-ing dramatic, I swear. Some people fall on one side of this whole thing and any little piece that fits their plight and they’re screaming at the top of their lungs it’s the worst thing they’ve ever seen or heard (“cracker”). 

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Bottom line, I think we can all agree that AB did not behave "professionally."

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1 hour ago, ILUVBEER99 said:

ya, white people have a long history of being subjected to oppression and slavery.  😂

What are you talking about?  Your ignorance on the subject matter is on full display.  I'll hit you with a little knowledge and then will no longer hijack the thread.  The term "Cracker" is in reference to someone who cracks the whip, like a slave owner/trader.  In other words, you means you're an oppressor and a racist POS.  While it might not bother you, I would definitely take offense to someone calling me a "Cracker."  I wouldn't want to fight someone over it, but it would definitely show that the person calling me that has no idea who I am as a person and is a complete and total idiot.  

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36 minutes ago, Shawnky said:
2 hours ago, ILUVBEER99 said:

ya, white people have a long history of being subjected to oppression and slavery.  😂

What are you talking about?  Your ignorance on the subject matter is on full display.  I'll hit you with a little knowledge and then will no longer hijack the thread.  The term "Cracker" is in reference to someone who cracks the whip, like a slave owner/trader.  In other words, you means you're an oppressor and a racist POS.  While it might not bother you, I would definitely take offense to someone calling me a "Cracker."  I wouldn't want to fight someone over it, but it would definitely show that the person calling me that has no idea who I am as a person and is a complete and total idiot.  

For a guy who calls other people ignorant, it's quite ironic that you botched the origins of the word "cracker".

It had nothing to do with oppression or race -- not originally, at least.

Originally, a "craker" or "crake" was a person who was cocky and arrogant (but also uneducated and ill-mannered). By the 1700s, the word was being used to describe certain settlers in the south -- not because they were oppressive slaveholders, but because they were poor, dumb, and obnoxious.

Later on, the term was also used to describe people who cracked a whip.......but it still wasn't a reference to slavery. It was actually a reference to the fact that these people were often so poor that the only job they could get was a cattle driver or some other menial task involving beasts of burden.

So, the word is certainly an insult, but unlike the n-word it does not have racist origins.

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On 9/5/2019 at 1:27 PM, Copeman said:

Maybe Burfict should hit him again to see if it reverses the issue.  I'd like to see that.

The Flintstones had an episode like this where Fred got hit on the head and became a Kelsey Grammar cheer character and then a mob of former friends chased him into his house and Barney hit on the head again and he became the old boorish working class Fred. 

This might work....

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4 hours ago, ILUVBEER99 said:

no white person gives a #### about being called a cracker.  

Some might not even know what it means as Mayock isn't from the south, I know I didn't know what meant until I actually met some southern people and some distant relatives that lived in the DC area.

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15 hours ago, mcintyre1 said:

In the NBA? Yeah.

Not to hijack this wonderful thread but he is from Texas and Black people from Texas especially rural areas listen to country music and some are real cowboys, farm hands, farmers.   Wikapedia lists him from Houston but he could be from the outskirts or grew up in Plano or a place like that.

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8 hours ago, cap'n grunge said:

Probably not possible. I wonder how many players threaten other players in the heat of the moment?

Players fight in camp all the time and even a “good guy” like Tom Brady have had heated arguments with coaches.

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41 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

For a guy who calls other people ignorant, it's quite ironic that you botched the origins of the word "cracker".

It had nothing to do with oppression or race -- not originally, at least.

Originally, a "craker" or "crake" was a person who was cocky and arrogant (but also uneducated and ill-mannered). By the 1700s, the word was being used to describe certain settlers in the south -- not because they were oppressive slaveholders, but because they were poor, dumb, and obnoxious.

Later on, the term was also used to describe people who cracked a whip.......but it still wasn't a reference to slavery. It was actually a reference to the fact that these people were often so poor that the only job they could get was a cattle driver or some other menial task involving beasts of burden.

So, the word is certainly an insult, but unlike the n-word it does not have racist origins.

npr.org has an informative article as well.

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2013/07/01/197644761/word-watch-on-crackers

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Really can't see this working out for long...AB needs to be the man and too many good pass catchers in NE

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13 minutes ago, JoeSteeler said:

Really can't see this working out for long...AB needs to be the man and too many good pass catchers in NE

The one motivation I can see for AB would be....this could be the single biggest way to stick it to the Steelers. And Belichick knows this.

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So a question regarding NFL rules....maybe it was already answered and if it was i apologize 

 

My understanding is that AB is not officially on the roster for week 1.  Does that mean that the Patriots can cut him later this year and he would not be eligible for termination pay?

And do we know when his signing bonus is actually paid?  Could his signing bonus be slated to be paid week 10, or week 17 etc?  And if it is paid later in the season, and he is cut before then, would he still get it?

I am wondering if the Patriots built in something to protect themselves/motivate AB

 

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26 minutes ago, JoeSteeler said:

Really can't see this working out for long...AB needs to be the man and too many good pass catchers in NE

Could have said the same thing about Moss at one point.  It worked.

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21 minutes ago, Otis said:

Could have said the same thing about Moss at one point.  It worked.

Moss was humbled when he got to NE.  He had a few bad seasons.  AB is coming in chock full of ego.  If Gruden couldn't get him to play coaching "nicely", and we already know how he reacted to Tomlin's tough love.  I don't see it lasting 2 weeks.  

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4 minutes ago, Hairy Snowman said:

Moss was humbled when he got to NE.  He had a few bad seasons.  AB is coming in chock full of ego.  If Gruden couldn't get him to play coaching "nicely", and we already know how he reacted to Tomlin's tough love.  I don't see it lasting 2 weeks.  

They will put up with it as long as it doesn't interfere with the goal. The SB victory and secondary, the perfect season.

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2 minutes ago, lod001 said:

They will put up with it as long as it doesn't interfere with the goal. The SB victory and secondary, the perfect season.

We are talking about the Patriots. There is a reason they are on top.  They don't "put up with it".  You either follow the "Patriot Way" or you go on your way.  Talk to the players.  No one in that locker room is treated any differently from anyone else.  TB included. 

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18 minutes ago, Hairy Snowman said:

Moss was humbled when he got to NE.  He had a few bad seasons.  AB is coming in chock full of ego.  If Gruden couldn't get him to play coaching "nicely", and we already know how he reacted to Tomlin's tough love.  I don't see it lasting 2 weeks.  

my hunch, works the whole season.

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22 minutes ago, Hairy Snowman said:

Moss was humbled when he got to NE.  He had a few bad seasons.  AB is coming in chock full of ego.  If Gruden couldn't get him to play coaching "nicely", and we already know how he reacted to Tomlin's tough love.  I don't see it lasting 2 weeks.  

I don’t think so. Drama queens like AB tend to fall in line when the are led by an alpha male like Belichick.

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6 minutes ago, theplayer11 said:

my hunch, works the whole season.

Bill Belichek.  First time he misses a walk through, he will get benched and fined. First time he "tweets", he will get benched and fined.  The culture in NE is a culture of accountability.  

Albert Haynesworth.  Chad Ochocinco.  They were reclaimation projects that didn't work.  For every Randy Moss and Corey Dillon there is a Michael Floyd.

This is the last stop for AB.  One way or the other.

It is easy (?) to forget AB has been behaving irrationally.  I don't think that he had this planned out.  Oakland could have screwed him, but did the "right" thing.  

It will play out in front of us publicly, but I don't think a leopard changes its spots so easily.    

Edited by Hairy Snowman
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16 minutes ago, Hairy Snowman said:

We are talking about the Patriots. There is a reason they are on top.  They don't "put up with it".  You either follow the "Patriot Way" or you go on your way.  Talk to the players.  No one in that locker room is treated any differently from anyone else.  TB included. 

Agree with this. But at the same time I think he makes it the whole season in NE. Hopefully this isn’t an ongoing saga and it’s just football from here on out. It’s surprising that the two biggest spotlights are on NE players when they are ones, like you said, that expect you to either shape up or ship out. 

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1 minute ago, Hairy Snowman said:

Bill Belichek.  First time he misses a walk through, he will get benched and fined. First time he "tweets", he will get benched and fined.  The culture in NE is a culture of accountability.  

Albert Haynesworth.  Chad Ochocinco.  They were reclaimation projects that didn't work.  For every Randy Moss and Corey Dillon there is a Michael Floyd.

This is the last stop for AB.  One way or the other.   

disagree again, if the Pats cut hin there will still be plenty of teams lining up to get him

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7 hours ago, Jello_Biafra said:

Yeah, a black man makes a big deal out of it and a white guy doesn't give a #### what anyone calls him.

As someone who sees blatant, deeply seeded racism... daily, going BOTH ways... living in Memphis, TN: 

Black men (and women) make a big deal out of it because they are STILL trying to “come up” and overcome hurdles that white men never had to face. Having that thrown in your face is like being kicked in the face from above while you’re trying to climb a ladder. That’s a blanket statement, of course, and not all black men are actually trying to climb the ladder... just like not all white men are kicking from above. But in the end the words mean the same. Some are impacted more by them than others. 

“Cracker” lacks the same punch or power because, generally speaking, the targets of the insult are comfortable in their standing.. typically “above” the person throwing the insult. It takes a lot of the punch away and doesn’t mean anywhere near the same thing. Sure there are PLENTY of angry poor white men who, when called a cracker by black men, would likely take umbrage and throw fists.... but Maycock is not such a man. 

Cracker is effectively harmless as a term not because of the intent behind it, but because it lacks the historical projection of power that other racial slurs carry. 

 

 

I’m not standing up for Brown’s use of the term. There’s no place for that #### in today’s NFL. At this point these men are professionals making more money in a year than many of us will make in a lifetime. Just explaining the lack of uproar, IMO. 

I don’t love the signing, as a lifer NE fan. I’m doing my best to take a wait and see approach. That said, the uproar by some in here has provided a TREMENDOUS amount of comedy... and screen grabs have been circulating among NE family and on some other forums. 

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4 minutes ago, [icon] said:

As someone who sees blatant, deeply seeded racism... daily, going BOTH ways... living in Memphis, TN: 

Black men (and women) make a big deal out of it because they are STILL trying to “come up” and overcome hurdles that white men never had to face. Having that thrown in your face is like being kicked in the face from above while you’re trying to climb a ladder. That’s a blanket statement, of course, and not all black men are actually trying to climb the ladder... just like not all white men are kicking from above. But in the end the words mean the same. Some are impacted more by them than others. 

“Cracker” lacks the same punch or power because, generally speaking, the targets of the insult are comfortable in their standing.. typically “above” the person throwing the insult. It takes a lot of the punch away and doesn’t mean anywhere near the same thing. Sure there are PLENTY of angry poor white men who, when called a cracker by black men, would likely take umbrage and throw fists.... but Maycock is not such a man. 

Cracker is effectively harmless as a term not because of the intent behind it, but because it lacks the historical projection of power that other racial slurs carry. 

 

well stated

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9 minutes ago, CKoz24 said:

If you were to draft today, where would AB go round/tier?

Would he go 1st round/tier? Probably in most leagues. 

Is he worth it? Given the historically streaky inconsistent distribution of targets in NE (outside moss and Edelman), and the inherent risk of AB blowing up and getting booted? No. Late 2nd early 3rd for me.

Higher ceiling/floor than Gordon. Similar risk profile. 

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11 minutes ago, Hairy Snowman said:


It is easy (?) to forget AB has been behaving irrationally.  

Nobody is forgetting that.

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4 minutes ago, CKoz24 said:

If you were to draft today, where would AB go round/tier?

Oof I would prob still take him right where he was before. I think it’s an upgrade in situation but a downgrade in general confidence that he’ll play all 16 (15 now) so it’s a wash. 

Edit: And by that I mean after the elite tier of WR’s. Toss up between him and Evans. 

Edited by Elevencents
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I think AB's actions and behavior tell a story that he wanted out of Oakland. His antics are just part of the show leading up to his release. Who knows? Then, ya gotta question whether his agent was working behind the scenes with NE? Isn't that called tampering while a player is under contract? Anyone else talking about this? A signing, a deal, within 2 1/2 hours after his release sounds a little fishy to me.

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Just now, Elevencents said:

Oof I would prob still take him right where he was before. I think it’s an upgrade in situation but a downgrade in general confidence that he’ll play all 16 (15 now) so it’s a wash. 

less targets imo

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1 minute ago, Team Smokin' said:

A signing, a deal, within 2 1/2 hours after his release sounds a little fishy to me.

In a vacuum this isn’t fishy at all. Mccoy was signed immediately. Do you sincerely think teams don’t act fast when a top tier talent hits the market?

AB’s situation was devolving rapidly... there were public rumors of him being cut at least a day earlier, internally likely before that. Trust me, every single Management team had held emergency meetings to discuss what they would be willing to give AB if that call came. They weren’t doing their jobs if they didn’t. 

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9 minutes ago, [icon] said:

I don’t love the signing, as a lifer NE fan. I’m doing my best to take a wait and see approach. That said, the uproar by some in here has provided a TREMENDOUS amount of comedy... and screen grabs have been circulating among NE family and on some other forums. 

It’s quite ridiculous for sure - I have found myself rereading several posts because I’m not sure if it’s serious or schtick. 

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1 minute ago, theplayer11 said:

disagree again, if the Pats cut hin there will still be plenty of teams lining up to get him

Who? 

I could see Seattle at league minimum.  And he would sign because the Pats already paid him. 

But the Pats aren't going to just "release" him like Oakland.  The Patriots are a much different organization.  There will be consequences. The culture in New England is of accountability.  If he violates his contract in New England, there will be consequences drafted into the contract.  I promise you AB gave things up for that 9 million.

This is going to be interesting. Tom Brady has tremendous force of personality.  The locker room is tight and championship caliber.  I don't know if AB affects it much because he will need to penetrate it.  AB has been acting irrationally.  A nice way of saying insane. 

Is possible AB wises up like a Dennis Rodman and "does his job"? Sure.  But I don't think AB will be able to keep up sanity.  I am not a doctor, but to me he appears to be a pathological narcissist.  He creates all his problems and drama.  What is going to happen when they take the game spotlight and the media platforms?  What is going to happen when he is held accountable for his actions like every other player on that team.  Take the structure in Oakland and multiply it by 10.  

I don't think it will take that long.  As long as Tom Brady can keep him focusing on football.  Which will probably be as long as it takes AB to drive home.        

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2 minutes ago, [icon] said:

In a vacuum this isn’t fishy at all. Mccoy was signed immediately. Do you sincerely think teams don’t act fast when a top tier talent hits the market?

AB’s situation was devolving rapidly... there were public rumors of him being cut at least a day earlier, internally likely before that. Trust me, every single Management team had held emergency meetings to discuss what they would be willing to give AB if that call came. They weren’t doing their jobs if they didn’t. 

and I bet half the teams were not doing their jobs

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1 minute ago, [icon] said:

In a vacuum this isn’t fishy at all. Mccoy was signed immediately. Do you sincerely think teams don’t act fast when a top tier talent hits the market?

AB’s situation was devolving rapidly... there were public rumors of him being cut at least a day earlier, internally likely before that. Trust me, every single Management team had held emergency meetings to discuss what they would be willing to give AB if that call came. They weren’t doing their jobs if they didn’t. 

If this were any other team this would probably be the pervading theory but people just LOVE to associate cheating and general underhandedness with the Pats. 

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5 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

You should be banned for a comment like this. Showing a little too much of yourself with this one. 

Edit: Unless I'm misinterpreting what you're saying here. In which case, my bad. But what you're saying seems like trivializing. 

I'm just talking the truth. 

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3 minutes ago, Hairy Snowman said:

Who? 

I could see Seattle at league minimum.  And he would sign because the Pats already paid him. 

But the Pats aren't going to just "release" him like Oakland.  The Patriots are a much different organization.  There will be consequences. The culture in New England is of accountability.  If he violates his contract in New England, there will be consequences drafted into the contract.  I promise you AB gave things up for that 9 million.

This is going to be interesting. Tom Brady has tremendous force of personality.  The locker room is tight and championship caliber.  I don't know if AB affects it much because he will need to penetrate it.  AB has been acting irrationally.  A nice way of saying insane. 

Is possible AB wises up like a Dennis Rodman and "does his job"? Sure.  But I don't think AB will be able to keep up sanity.  I am not a doctor, but to me he appears to be a pathological narcissist.  He creates all his problems and drama.  What is going to happen when they take the game spotlight and the media platforms?  What is going to happen when he is held accountable for his actions like every other player on that team.  Take the structure in Oakland and multiply it by 10.  

I don't think it will take that long.  As long as Tom Brady can keep him focusing on football.  Which will probably be as long as it takes AB to drive home.        

I agree with most of this, but I think AB settles in with the Pats..UNLESS he truly is insane

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6 minutes ago, [icon] said:

In a vacuum this isn’t fishy at all. Mccoy was signed immediately. Do you sincerely think teams don’t act fast when a top tier talent hits the market?

AB’s situation was devolving rapidly... there were public rumors of him being cut at least a day earlier, internally likely before that. Trust me, every single Management team had held emergency meetings to discuss what they would be willing to give AB if that call came. They weren’t doing their jobs if they didn’t. 

They were broadcasting his availability to negotiate live on the NFL channel. All the teams knew at the same time. 

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13 minutes ago, Team Smokin' said:

I think AB's actions and behavior tell a story that he wanted out of Oakland. His antics are just part of the show leading up to his release. Who knows? Then, ya gotta question whether his agent was working behind the scenes with NE? Isn't that called tampering while a player is under contract? Anyone else talking about this? A signing, a deal, within 2 1/2 hours after his release sounds a little fishy to me.

NE showed interest in him way before yesterday...years ago while he was debating his future in Pitt.  Rosenhaus has other patriot players as clients too.  Got a lot of calls from other teams wanting brown.

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So, I assume Brown had no leverage in the Oak trade (ie, no trade clause).  Immediately worked out with Carr.  All of a sudden, he’s missing practices, walkthroughs, etc.  It’s not unreasonable to surmise that the dude knew Oak would continue to suck and be irrelevant in the grand scheme of everything.  Only way out was to do what he did.  Unfortunately, he got what he wanted in the end.  Oak should’ve given him 5-day letter, but that’s what happens when you have broadcast boy and Mel kiper wannabe guy running your team.

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Actually got someone trying to trade for AB.  Figured I’d put it in here in case anyone else is trying to cash out. 

 

AB/Duke Johnson for Chubb and Hilton 

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6 minutes ago, Bad_Mo said:

So, I assume Brown had no leverage in the Oak trade (ie, no trade clause).  Immediately worked out with Carr.  All of a sudden, he’s missing practices, walkthroughs, etc.  It’s not unreasonable to surmise that the dude knew Oak would continue to suck and be irrelevant in the grand scheme of everything.  Only way out was to do what he did.  Unfortunately, he got what he wanted in the end.  Oak should’ve given him 5-day letter, but that’s what happens when you have broadcast boy and Mel kiper wannabe guy running your team.

Oak would have had to pay AB or fight him in court to not pay him if he wasn't cut.  They did the right thing for their organization by cutting him and ending the drama.

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It’s a great day to be a Chippewa. Held Wisconsin to 61 yesterday and our most (in)famous alum just blew past T.O. to become the all-time Drama Queen of the NFL’s first 100 years.

#fireupchips

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6 minutes ago, Gottabesweet said:

AB/Duke Johnson for Chubb and Hilton 

Wow, great haul for AB

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Pretty incredible that the most populated topic on this forum is about a dude who isn’t even playing this weekend, or actually on a team for that matter. 

I’d bet AB would be super happy about this. 

I wouldn’t be surprised if one of his defenders in here was him. :ph34r:

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