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WR Antonio Brown, FA (13 Viewers)
- Thread starter Casting Couch
- Start date
DocHolliday
Footballguy
The Patriots play to win. They don't care about rules or doing the right thing. AB is playing.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Of course. Absolutely complex.
It’s also a snowball effect. If we stop shaming people, protect them, and prosecute well and they get tough sentences, it’ll get reported more and faster and evidence will be more readily available. When no or very little punishment goes to high profile cases with convictions or guilty pleas, the opposite happens.
It's not hard to be cleared, at all (if he didn't do anything wrong). When I say cleared, I mean the civil case has ended and he wasn't found legally responsible/liable/whatever the legal equivalent of guilty is for civil suits. If he is found guilty/responsible/liable, etc, then his placement on the exempt list was justifiable.
Again, you are going to the extreme with the "how many jilted women" question. If these "jilted women" tried that, and the NFL players were cleared, they should pursue legal action against those women. That's how the system should work.
Workhorse
Footballguy
I have this sneaking suspicion that if this involved, let's say, your favorite team's number one pick in the draft and he was facing a civil lawsuit (no criminal charges filed), you'd scream bloody murder if the league kept him off of the football field for 2-3 years without any due process.
It's easy to make this solely about Antonio Brown, and as I've said all along, I STILL think he's more likely than not guilty of these allegations (although I'm leaning more toward 50/50 based on some of the recent info) and I'm fully in favor of the Pats releasing him. That said, I'm 100% against the NFL using the exempt list in this case.
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Doug B
Footballguy
If I'm following your chain of reasoning here ... you would agree that such cases are clear and proper exceptions to the dictum "Better to let 10 guilty men go free ..."
You'd be wrong, at least with regards to the cause of this civil lawsuit. If he was being sued for failure to pay child support, or breach of contract, or some other such issue, it'd be a different issue. Sexual assault, though, is a different story.
Workhorse
Footballguy
Fair enough, and I understand your point. However, this does open up a difficult can of worms. What should the league have done with Marcell Dareus when he faced a similar situation back in January 2017 (he was accused TWICE in civil cases of drugging and raping two women) -- One civil case was dismissed earlier this year and I believe there's a separate one still pending. Should he have been suspended all that time? Should the NFL suspend him now? How about Tajae Sharpe when he was sued for allegedly assaulting someone in 2017 even though he faced no criminal charges?
Dizzy
Footballguy
"Taylor’s complaint refers to another football player as present in the house when she claims Brown raped her. This player would be a key witness."
"It’s unclear what the other football player in Brown’s house was doing at this time, or if he heard Taylor’s alleged screams."
"It appears the only other person near the alleged rape was the unnamed football player."
First I heard/saw this other football player mentioned... assume that name will leak out shortly.
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Stealthycat
Footballguy
if she had a serious boyfriend ... would she have told him and maybe have a witness?
that she took lie detector and passed, that she remembers everything in detail as the link above shows .... very damaging to ABrown
Dizzy
Footballguy
Watching Schefter this morning, NFL put off interviewing her this week because she's getting married. Could be same boyfriend at the time, turned fiance, soon to be husband.
This "other football player" present at the time is sure to gain some traction with reporters today.
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
cloppbeast
Footballguy
Who would take a 2nd for AB right now?
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Manster
Footballguy
Thing is, they already have a really good team, and this dude has constant off-field drama....plus, there's public perception....is it worth having him out there? Hell, they could suit up their practice squad and still cover the spread in Miami....my gut tells me ain't playing this weekend
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Manster
Footballguy
Yea, I just wanna know if he's playing or not....I'm tired of hearing about this choads off field crap.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Not a chance unless you just want him off your team. At most he gets a six game suspension post investigation. He’ll be back, and trading an all pro player for a 2nd in dynasty, even if he’s out for the season, is ill advised.
I'd be surprised if he plays this week. Why wouldn't Belichick wait until the league interviews the accuser next week? She has other proof they end up putting him on that commissioners exempt list or suspending him, why would the Pats ever want to say he played a game for them? When they certainly don't need him against Miami. I know Belichick and the Patriots don't care about a person's character, but they'd be better off washing their hands of this guy. He's left the last two teams because he's a problem, and he's become one in less than a week in New England. Cancer. Even by Patriots' standards.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
I don’t like AB but “finishing” on a persons back is not a crime unless she didn’t consent.davearm said:
Pont is- those text aren’t an admission of guilt. It’s a statement of what occurred.
HULLOBUDMAN
Footballguy
It is still my contention that the Pats (along with most teams in the league) knew about this prior to them signing him.
Gottabesweet
Footballguy
Glad I cashed out in late June.
Antonio, Damian Williams, Michel, 1.7, 3.2 (Montgomery (he traded up one spot) and Sternberger
for Davante Adams, Boyd, 1.1, 2.6 (Jacobs, Hollywood Brown)
Henry Ford
Footballguy
The NFL is worth nearly $100 billion and has 1,700 players. It can afford to investigate these incidents thoroughly and should do so. Based on that investigation, it should make a determination about eligibility to play.
Apparently opinions differ but to me it's as clear as day that she didn't consent. She wasn't even aware it was happening.
Both her account of the situation, and his subsequent texts, point to this conclusion (IMO).
Why would he be teasing/taunting her in the texts about the incident if she had consented? Makes zero sense.
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
If AB is being treated like "any other player" chances are he will either not play or play in a very limited role. He needs to learn the playbook. They will know he likes 2 or 3 plays and may put him in to run a few plays. But I doubt he is out there extensively. They don't have that kind of trust in him and there are plenty of WRs in front of him on the learning curve right now. Just my opinion.
No opinion on the rape case. Pretty sure Pats will wait until the investigation is complete or they have information to act.
No opinion on the rape case. Pretty sure Pats will wait until the investigation is complete or they have information to act.
OK let's imagine these two were in a romantic relationship, despite her claim to the contrary.
Would that excuse him exposing himself to her? Probably.
Would that excuse him kissing her without her consent? Eh, pushing the envelope now. Technically no but hard to imagine anything coming from this, legally.
Would that excuse him ejaculating on her without her knowledge or consent? Definitely not.
Would that excuse him for forcibly penetrating her despite her resistance and screams? Obviously not.
So the existence of an ongoing romantic relationship should be enough to get him out from under the first, least serious incident, but not the other two.
They should, AT THE VERY LEAST, have placed him on the exempt list while they conduct their own investigation, then made a final decision once either the civil case is resolved or the NFL investigation is concluded.
I'm a teacher & if I was facing these kinds of accusations, I'd be prevented from working while my school looked into the charges. Why should NFL players be held to a lesser standard? Because they have lots of fans, their teams have lots of fans? That's BS.
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
[scooter]
Footballguy
Why would he be teasing/taunting her in the texts if she hadn't consented? Makes zero sense.
Manster
Footballguy
But we all know the NFL always handles these things poorly. There really is no precedent.....they make knee jerk reactions, and then change their minds, or reduce suspensions, or whatever.......the reality is, they'd rather see these guys on the field whether they did it or not, as long as it doesn't hurt the bottom line......they wait for public perception and adjust from there......Ray Rice was on video and there was a HUGE public outcry.....he gone! But I agree, AB should be inactive until this is sorted out.....but again, it's the NFL and he's a star player, so who knows.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
exactly and because ABrown loves power
he had the power to get out of Pit, then amazingly enough to get out of OAK and to go get a SB ring ..... I think its a power thing and he was showing he she was nothing
until she decided to be strong
I'm not saying ABrown raped her or even assaulted her ... I'm saying there is enough evidence/facts being shown that its an accusation that needs looked at and ABrown doesn't need to play until its resolved because of how it looks to the NFL and to the Patriots.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
I read that as in- You’re a slutt, I’ve nutted all over you - you filthy whore”. Essentially sayin she has very little respect for herself and zero credibility.
Again, I’m certainly not in ABs corner and I hope whoever is guilty of any crime is held accountable.
I’ll say no more as I have no interest in getting heavily invested in a strangers (AB) problems but those are my thoughts.
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The exempt list has nothing to do with the civil litigation.
The exempt list provides the NFL a chance to conduct its own investigation to determine whether Brown violated the league's personal conduct policy. The timeline on that would be wholly unrelated to, and independent of, the legal proceedings.
I didn't pose the 2-3 year timeline question; it was asked of me. I was answering the hypothetical question posed.
Fair enough.
Your statement, "if it takes 2-3 years to play out & the NFL decided to keep him on the exempt list" represents a false choice. That's not a possible outcome here. The league will not sit around waiting on the resolution of civil litigation.
Just clearing up that misconception, but not attaching it to you. :cheers:
[scooter]
Footballguy
Okay. But your previous logic seemed to be based solely on Brown's willingness to discuss the topic.
I was pointing out that the same logic could be applied to the opposite position.
How so?
There's no logical reason for his texted taunts if she consented to him ejaculating on her.
There's obvious reason for his texted taunts if that behavior was not consensual.
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Dizzy
Footballguy
Schefter speculated that word could come as late as Saturday as to his game 2 status. I'm sure there will be reports of whether Brown is is traveling with the team.
Imagine the scene in Miami on Sunday... a hated division opponent in town... public enemy #1 catches a TD pass... immediately goes into the "next great thing" of end zone celebrations while the disgruntled Dolphins fans collectively chant RAAA-PIST RAAA-PIST RAAA-PIST! Should make for great TV. Happy 100 NFL!
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[scooter]
Footballguy
Godsbrother
Footballguy
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Actually, if they were engaged in a consentual relationship and she later tried to extort 1.6 million dollars from him in a defamatory claim an angry response from him referring to their prior intimacy, as in "how could you do this to me after we were together" would be perfectly logical.
But you have it all figured out so let's just throw due process in the trash can, and have him flogged in public for having been found guilty in the court of public opinion.
Parting shot: "Hi, I'm religious and wholesome, but I like to go to strip clubs with a bunch of dudes, then drive them home, go into their houses at 2am (just to pee), then return home to pray. I particularly like to do this with dudes who have already crossed relationship boundaries because these dudes are totally believable when they are contrite. Oh, and the 1.6 million dollars I was trying to get, and the pics of me and AB on social media the whole time, that doesn't damage my credibility at all."
Unbelievable.
[scooter]
Footballguy
Okay, feel free to remove the word "openly" from my sentence.
People tend to be more likely to discuss activities which were consensual.
Or, to put it another way: if Brown had refused to discuss that particular incident (while agreeing to discuss other activities), then people here would be saying "See! He refuses to address the subject! That's proof of guilt!"
It's flawed logic to assume that something wasn't consensual based solely on a person's willingness to discuss a subject.
Ejaculating on someone without their consent is like spitting in their face, only much worse. The purpose is to dehumanize and humiliate that person, and assert dominance over them.
Nothing in Brown's subsequent texts indicate he had some other motivation. In fact they tend to confirm that was his intent.
I know it represents a false choice; it's the one that was presented to me as an argument against the NFL using the exempt list in this situation. I was merely saying that even if that extreme example was possible, I'd be OK with the NFL doing that.
