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Antonio Brown - Out of his Head - Out of the League

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9 hours ago, Soulfly3 said:

if ab signs w another team, kaep legit has to file a lawsuit

Uhhh, he already has and got a huge settlement from it.

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8 hours ago, dallas428 said:

AB has million dollar expenses. He doesn’t seem to me, I could be wrong, the type to save for times like this. With the endorsement loses and everything else, he is going to have a hard time living like he has over the last few years. His bills arn’t like most of ours, they are thousands over thousands. If not signed and with how he “talks” what the hell is he going to do next to pay the bills. What can he do other then catch footballs. Guy is in trouble and should start downsizing everything around him. 

 

He seems pretty rational. I’m sure he’s already thought about all of this.

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9 hours ago, SoBeDad said:

Some claim that Brown's behavior is evidence of CTE.  Soon, some of the brain pathology of CTE might be detected during life with a PET scan that measues a protein known as tau. But it's early in the research and studies with larger cohorts followed for longer periods need to be done. 

They should do immediate surgery to remove that part of his brain and examine it. He won't miss it.

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8 hours ago, Walking Boot said:

I will say that the events of the last 72 hours completely exonerate the Patriots against any claim they colluded with Antonio Brown to act nuts just to get out of Oakland and over to them.

No.   It doesn't.  AB and the Pats had a plan to get him to NE.   Nobody, including AB, planned on the legal trouble catching up with him.  

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2 hours ago, Futz said:

I wouldn't necessarily say that. AB may have been playing everyone all along thinking he's the smartest guy in the room and with his superstar stature, can just make it all go away by playing football. However, he made a series of costly blunders that just about anyone could have seen coming. The gig is up. That's what leads me to the conclusion that this guy is delusional and out of touch with reality. You make these types of decisions only if you think you are invincible and or living in a fantasy world. This reeks of illness.

I am fascinated by the oppressed underdog, "no one believed in me" mythos he has built around himself. As a sort of mental locker room bulletin board material, it may well be responsible for his success but once the success and money came, it became this paradox that got harder and harder to rationalize. The challenge of self-actualization versus selfishness claims another victim.

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40 minutes ago, apalmer said:

They should do immediate surgery to remove that part of his brain and examine it. He won't miss it.

I think they go in to do brain surgery and can't find what they're looking for.

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49 minutes ago, apalmer said:

They should do immediate surgery to remove that part of his brain and examine it. He won't miss it.

ABby Normal

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After exploring various reports, a couple things seemed to have happened. One, NE apparently was willing to tolerate whatever happened with Brown before he got to NE. He was brought on essentially with two strikes and was told he was on the shortest of leashes. 

Texting the woman with pictures of her children was the last straw for Kraft, who wanted AB gone. It was the first thing that happened under their watch. He practiced yesterday while the team sought verification that he sent the text. Once they seemingly confirmed that, he was on his way out. 

Also, some on the team were not thrilled that they brought AB in in the first place. Some players loved it. Others tolerated it. A few hated it. Most put on a happy face and did what they were told. 

BB appears to have been less adamant about cutting Brown but was convinced by Kraft and the general feelings about him in the locker room. 

NE seems pretty confident that they will not have to pay out the remainder of Brown’s salary for the season. I was not aware that players get paid on Wednesdays and Brown was on the roster for three of them, meaning he got paid for three weeks even though he only played in one game. 

They also feel strongly that by failing to disclose the civil suit that that will get them off the hook in terms of the $9 million guaranteed money (of which he has not received any of it). I am curious if NE worked with the league and the NFLPA to seek clarification on that issue before cutting him. 

It’s probably safe to say that Brown is toxic until the league finishes investigating him. If he somehow comes out unscathed, a team in the hunt late in the season might try to bring him in for a playoff push, but who knows what else will come out before then. He’s probably done for this season.

Cleary we are a long way from done in terms of this whole mess. It would not shock me if the typical remedies pop up. Off his meds, on something but now in rehab, etc. I wouldn’t rule out AB suing the league for CTE. Literally place your bets on where this goes from here. 

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7 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

 

They also feel strongly that by failing to disclose the civil suit that that will get them off the hook in terms of the $9 million guaranteed money (of which he has not received any of it). I am curious if NE worked with the league and the NFLPA to seek clarification on that issue before cutting him. 

 

Surprised to see this from you since you were beating the drum.from day 1 that he wouldnt and shouldnt go on the exempt list for a civil lawsuit. You even mentioned these can take a long time. 

Just seems contradictory. When he was on the team you were all about due process. now that hes cut you feel strongly about whatever is in the best interests of the team. 

To expand on a post you made in here the day the lawsuit broke- what is stopping anyone from filing a civil lawsuit to screw over a signing bonus for a player? What if Jacksonville is regretting paying Foles all that money. All they have to do is get someone to accuse him of wrongdoing in a civil lawsuit and they can walk away from that guarantee? 

It's a bad president to set when you let a civil lawsuit affect a signing bonus...

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10 hours ago, SoBeDad said:

Some claim that Brown's behavior is evidence of CTE.  Soon, some of the brain pathology of CTE might be detected during life with a PET scan that measues a protein known as tau. But it's early in the research and studies with larger cohorts followed for longer periods need to be done. 

Makes me wonder if Tanking For Tua is caused by too much Tau

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Why is AB public enemy number one when there’s such a track record of star atheletes being embraced after similar or worse accusations or convictions?  Kobe. Big Ben. Vick.  AP.  There are so many examples.

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12 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

Surprised to see this from you since you were beating the drum.from day 1 that he wouldnt and shouldnt go on the exempt list for a civil lawsuit. You even mentioned these can take a long time. 

Just seems contradictory. When he was on the team you were all about due process. now that hes cut you feel strongly about whatever is in the best interests of the team. 

To expand on a post you made in here the day the lawsuit broke- what is stopping anyone from filing a civil lawsuit to screw over a signing bonus for a player? What if Jacksonville is regretting paying Foles all that money. All they have to do is get someone to accuse him of wrongdoing in a civil lawsuit and they can walk away from that guarantee? 

It's a bad president to set when you let a civil lawsuit affect a signing bonus...

I posted what the team felt / is doing. That’s not my opinion. That’s what has been reported. I didn’t make it up. That has nothing to do with me. 

We can debate anything along the way what thee team did, should have done, and when. I still feel putting him on the exempt list based on just a civil suit would be premature. At this point so much has come out after that that AB has become toxic and a PR nightmare. The league can always do what it feels is best to protect their brand. 

NE seems confident that Brown and Rosenhaus were fully aware of the situation, didn’t disclose anything, and signed a contract anyway. To them, that voids the contract. I am not an attorney, haven’t read the full contract, and have no idea what the CBA and Player Conduct requirements are. So I am not qualified to provide an informed opinion on that. 

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1 minute ago, elbowrm said:

Why is AB public enemy number one when there’s such a track record of star atheletes being embraced after similar or worse accusations or convictions?  Kobe. Big Ben. Vick.  AP.  There are so many examples.

I'm just guessing, but it looks like the continuing hostile social behavior and not disclosing details to the teams and the league. That's my guess.

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4 minutes ago, elbowrm said:

Why is AB public enemy number one when there’s such a track record of star atheletes being embraced after similar or worse accusations or convictions?  Kobe. Big Ben. Vick.  AP.  There are so many examples.

I would suggest it's because this is currently still ongoing and so the recency is thrusting him into the spotlight. We don't know how things will play out in the future. At the time, Vick was public enemy number one, then things settled down a bit, but it takes time and apologies etc. Same with AP. 

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5 minutes ago, elbowrm said:

Why is AB public enemy number one when there’s such a track record of star atheletes being embraced after similar or worse accusations or convictions?  Kobe. Big Ben. Vick.  AP.  There are so many examples.

Well, it’s still a process. Build up, tear down, build back up again. AB just hadn’t made it out of the tunnel yet.

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7 minutes ago, elbowrm said:

Why is AB public enemy number one when there’s such a track record of star atheletes being embraced after similar or worse accusations or convictions?  Kobe. Big Ben. Vick.  AP.  There are so many examples.

He continues to double down.  He’s hurting the league’s efforts at damage control, rather than cooperating.  The NFL is all about protecting the shield.

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11 minutes ago, elbowrm said:

Why is AB public enemy number one when there’s such a track record of star atheletes being embraced after similar or worse accusations or convictions?  Kobe. Big Ben. Vick.  AP.  There are so many examples.

Yes great point.  Let’s continue to support and enable bad behavior by star athletes. 

Not to mention in those cases there was some combination of punishment, apology, rehab. 

Edited by Max55
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11 minutes ago, elbowrm said:

Why is AB public enemy number one when there’s such a track record of star atheletes being embraced after similar or worse accusations or convictions?  Kobe. Big Ben. Vick.  AP.  There are so many examples.

Part of it is--as foxco said--AB is contributing to the problem on an ongoing basis through his sloppy behavior. 

I would also point out that AB has--so far--faced no real punishment, whereas both Vick and Adrian Peterson did.  In the cases of Kobe and Big Ben, the reality is they were the faces of their franchises.

Finally, while the league and teams would never admit it, part of the problem with AB seems to be genuine mental illness.  He seems to be in the midst of a manic episode.  In a situation like that, it is really hard to predict what he will do next, and it is safest to cut bait.

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14 minutes ago, elbowrm said:

Why is AB public enemy number one when there’s such a track record of star atheletes being embraced after similar or worse accusations or convictions?  Kobe. Big Ben. Vick.  AP.  There are so many examples.

Because he posts memes about being a victim on social media, after being waived by the Pats.  Million dollar body, 10 cent brain.....

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10 hours ago, SeniorVBDStudent said:

 

y'all can FOH with your FAUX righteous indignation.

 

classy

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39 minutes ago, elbowrm said:

Why is AB public enemy number one when there’s such a track record of star atheletes being embraced after similar or worse accusations or convictions?  Kobe. Big Ben. Vick.  AP.  There are so many examples.

Roethlisberger, Vick and AP were all suspended by the league were not "embraced" until several weeks (if not months) after returning. So your comparison to AB -- who hasn't even missed a game yet -- is not valid.

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2 hours ago, DocHolliday said:

No.   It doesn't.  AB and the Pats had a plan to get him to NE.   Nobody, including AB, planned on the legal trouble catching up with him.  

Until last night I was completely unaware that NE reached out to Pitt to trade for Brown and was turned down because they didn’t want to trade to a rival. Everything makes so much sense in light of the big picture.

Tex

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27 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

Roethlisberger, Vick and AP were all suspended by the league were not "embraced" until several weeks (if not months) after returning. So your comparison to AB -- who hasn't even missed a game yet -- is not valid.

AB also managed to mess with football, the league, locker rooms and is also alleged to be not a very good dude off the field. When you are able to be disliked across multiple demographics for multiple reasons, you truly are a special kind of "public enemy".

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1 hour ago, Anarchy99 said:

I posted what the team felt / is doing. That’s not my opinion. That’s what has been reported. I didn’t make it up. That has nothing to do with me. 

We can debate anything along the way what thee team did, should have done, and when. I still feel putting him on the exempt list based on just a civil suit would be premature. At this point so much has come out after that that AB has become toxic and a PR nightmare. The league can always do what it feels is best to protect their brand. 

NE seems confident that Brown and Rosenhaus were fully aware of the situation, didn’t disclose anything, and signed a contract anyway. To them, that voids the contract. I am not an attorney, haven’t read the full contract, and have no idea what the CBA and Player Conduct requirements are. So I am not qualified to provide an informed opinion on that. 

Thanks. 

I think this is spot on take for how the team saw it. Side note, this is a great example too of keeping it to football. Others I'm sure will try to take it off football and put it on you as some sort of "gotcha" that YOU were wrong. Ignore those. So much better to keep it on football.

I think you hit the big thing I've been saying that feels like it's not getting enough attention. It's one thing to bring in a guy with a troubled past. But when he does something on YOUR watch, that's different. That's what this felt like here with Brown texting the woman who accused him. 

 

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1 hour ago, elbowrm said:

Why is AB public enemy number one when there’s such a track record of star atheletes being embraced after similar or worse accusations or convictions?  Kobe. Big Ben. Vick.  AP.  There are so many examples.

Definitely some recency bias in the case of AB, those guys are all hated to various degrees by many as well.

They also didn't force their way off 2 teams in the span of a few months.

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8 minutes ago, steeler6 said:

Just dropped him in a redraft league for Dionte Johnson. Going from a top ten guy to someone I may start as a flex sucks. 

I dropped him for Golden Tate. Initially traded Tyler Boyd for Brown before getting released by the Raiders. Now, I'm just hoping for .80 on the dollar from Boyd to Tate. Ugh.

I felt like a genius for about three days.

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8 minutes ago, steeler6 said:

Just dropped him in a redraft league for Dionte Johnson. Going from a top ten guy to someone I may start as a flex sucks. 

Yeah but just think how happy you make some dude IF AB gets signed  Potential Top 5 WR off the wire now that's a score

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22 minutes ago, Dismattle said:

Yeah but just think how happy you make some dude IF AB gets signed  Potential Top 5 WR off the wire now that's a score

Don't see this happening with the threat of him going on the commissioners exempt the second a team signs him. 

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3 hours ago, elbowrm said:

Why is AB public enemy number one when there’s such a track record of star atheletes being embraced after similar or worse accusations or convictions?  Kobe. Big Ben. Vick.  AP.  There are so many examples.

Some has already been mentioned, like not yet facing any visible consequences yet (he has lot a ton of future earnings, though).

An overlooked feature though is the basic sense of loyalty most fans have, and expect to be at least given lipservice to by the players.  We accept that a player goes elsewhere as a “business decision” but forcing himself off a team (two teams) and breaking the whole system of expectations surrounding a contract leaves a sour taste.

For those reasons, I doubt there were many football fans that liked AB by the time he got to NE.  So when the allegations get serious, even at the allegation stage, he doesn’t have the usual bevy of “innocent until proven guilty” defenders because everybody pretty much hates him already and kind of hopes he’ll be gone.

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What would bother me most about this saga is seeing NE get off scott free. 

Yes they may not argue that they owe him beyond the three paychecks already paid (TBD obviously) but more of what I’m referring to is the calculated risk they took on someone obviously with at least professional challenges this year. 

Yes AB will pay his own price, quite possibly with his career, but it feels off to let NE off with nothing here. Play with fire and the only burn you get shouldn’t be minimal salary or to release the guy. 

If they don’t feel more of a hit, what’ll stop the next team from “damaging the brand” to sign someone good at football to only feel the pain of a partial paycheck when the other shoe drops?

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Where is the call for AB to get a CAT scan to see what's going on in his head ? Could all this bizarre behavior be CTE related ?

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He's done this year, but if the allegations clear up and it turns out to be nothing more than AB just being a dbag then he's 100% getting signed next year. 

Edited by Nucker101
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18 hours ago, Ghost Rider said:

Maybe, but if Brown never plays again, he won't have the numbers.  He is currently 28th all-time in receptions, 34th all-time in receiving yards and 34th all-time in receiving touchdowns (and would likely drop on all of those by the time he'd be eligible for the Hall).   Owens was still top 5 in all three (and I think still is). 

It's the Hall of FAME 

He's FAMOUS 

He's at least as deserving as Eli Manning, who is a first ballot HOF'er

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1 hour ago, Joe Bryant said:

nobody can say until we get some further answers on the allegations. If they are substantiated by the NFL’s investigations team he’s probably done. If not of course he’ll be signed.  
 

Anybody declaring an answer right now is just throwing out hot takes for clicks.  

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1 hour ago, Casting Couch said:

Where is the call for AB to get a CAT scan to see what's going on in his head ? Could all this bizarre behavior be CTE related ?

Do CAT scans even reveal CTE?  I didnt think you could find it unless the brain was actually removed from the head...which in this case would not result in a dramatic cognitive decline.

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Just now, ChuckLiddell said:

Do CAT scans even reveal CTE?  I didnt think you could find it unless the brain was actually removed from the head...which in this case would not result in a dramatic cognitive decline.

They don’t. Like Alzheimer’s, you have to do a post mortem examination of the brain for definitive diagnosis 

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1 hour ago, Casting Couch said:

Where is the call for AB to get a CAT scan to see what's going on in his head ? Could all this bizarre behavior be CTE related ?

I'd say it's at least a possibility.

How many concussions has AB had? Also, from what I understand, it doesn't necessarily take a concussion to promote CTE.

I'm guessing many factors contribute to it, including genetics.

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1 hour ago, Jayded said:

What would bother me most about this saga is seeing NE get off scott free. 

Yes they may not argue that they owe him beyond the three paychecks already paid (TBD obviously) but more of what I’m referring to is the calculated risk they took on someone obviously with at least professional challenges this year. 

Yes AB will pay his own price, quite possibly with his career, but it feels off to let NE off with nothing here. Play with fire and the only burn you get shouldn’t be minimal salary or to release the guy. 

If they don’t feel more of a hit, what’ll stop the next team from “damaging the brand” to sign someone good at football to only feel the pain of a partial paycheck when the other shoe drops?

This post doesn’t make any sense to me.  NFL teams are in the business of winning football games.  NE took a calculated risk signing him, as will the next team that signs him or any player with character issues.  Seems like AB handed them a loaded gun by not disclosing the allegations / litigation, which is why his guarantee is likely gone, as well as this latest round of idiocy.  That’s on him, not NE.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Casting Couch said:

Where is the call for AB to get a CAT scan to see what's going on in his head ? Could all this bizarre behavior be CTE related ?

Whether it is CTE or Bipolar, the league really does need to step in and make him getting help a condition to be readmitted into the league. This whole thing feels very much like the Titus Young situation a few years back. His father was convinced it was CTE but once in jail he got onto his bipolar medication and seems to be doing much better.

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5 minutes ago, elbowrm said:

This post doesn’t make any sense to me.  NFL teams are in the business of winning football games.  NE took a calculated risk signing him, as will the next team that signs him or any player with character issues.  Seems like AB handed them a loaded gun by not disclosing the allegations / litigation, which is why his guarantee is likely gone, as well as this latest round of idiocy.  That’s on him, not NE.

 

 

Let me say it a different way. There’s no way they could even claim to do diligence in the few hours from release to signing. 

If they’re going to be that careless they should have to bear some side of the risk outside of a game check or two. Maybe something like this should have more affect on their 2019 cap?

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