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Antonio Brown - Out of his Head - Out of the League

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2 hours ago, Ben & Jerry's said:

He signed up for online classes.

Only way he passes a class is by having someone else take it for him.  

The man can not spell and barely speaks English. No idea how he got through 3 years of college.  

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It was a heck of run the last 7-8 years. AB is done.

Anyway.......on to football. 

Edited by Todem

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44 minutes ago, Todem said:

It was a heck of run the last 7-8 years. AB is done.

Anyway.......on to football. 

Until someone signs AB (it that ever happens), this thread should be moved to the FFA forum.

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4 minutes ago, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

So counsellor ... that must play to his favor; no?

No comment. 

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1 hour ago, Mr. Peterson said:

Only way he passes a class is by having someone else take it for him.  

The man can not spell and barely speaks English. No idea how he got through 3 years of college.  

Sure you to.

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4 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

No comment. 

What's your legal take on whether the Patriots will be forced to pay out the money owed to Brown and the team's argument that Brown did not adhere to the terms of the contract, player conduct policy, and CBA? Their biggest and best argument that they seem to be making is that Rosenhaus had an obligation to disclose the pending civil suit and failing to do so ultimately made it impossible for NE to keep him.

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15 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

What's your legal take on whether the Patriots will be forced to pay out the money owed to Brown and the team's argument that Brown did not adhere to the terms of the contract, player conduct policy, and CBA? Their biggest and best argument that they seem to be making is that Rosenhaus had an obligation to disclose the pending civil suit and failing to do so ultimately made it impossible for NE to keep him.

I really don't have enough information about how signing bonuses work in the NFL.

I do think if they put that arbitration on Pay Per View Antonio Brown would make enough to make up for his losses this offseason, though.

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There’s talk surfacing that Kraft caught flack from partners and sponsors that they didn’t want Brown around with associated talk that they may have taken their money elsewhere. 

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44 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

There’s talk surfacing that Kraft caught flack from partners and sponsors that they didn’t want Brown around with associated talk that they may have taken their money elsewhere. 

Gillette didn't feel that AB was "the best a man can get".

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42 minutes ago, Don Hutson said:

What do Antonio Brown and Chick-Fil-A have in common?  They both don't work on Sundays.

Also, both have had some pretty awful press surrounding the Fellowship of Christian Athletes. 

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10 hours ago, Max55 said:

I disagree.

AB hasn’t even been suspended by the NFL for his numerous off the field issues that have surfaced over the past 9 months or so. 

Ben was suspended prior to the legal process playing out. 

We need to “ignore this behavior”? What?  AB controls what he posts and what he doesn’t.  He’s the one that can make this stop.  He’s not the victim here.

So exactly how is AB being treated unfairly vs Bens situation?  If anything it’s the opposite. 

I didn't say he was a victim. Far from it.  WHat I said was we (more specifically, the media) needs to ignore all these tweets and attention seeking behavior tactics because all it is doing is feeding into his behaviors and it is NOT truly newsworthy.  Just because he vents and rants doesn't mean we need ESPN and the NFL Network scrolling "breaking news" when it's not.  All it is, is " AB just ran his mouth again.  ". Is that really news?  No.  That is what I meant.

In regards to Ben's situation, the point he is roundabout trying to say is" Ben had a police report and formal charges and he got a slap on the risk for a rape accusation.  Meanwhile, AB got a civil suit allegation and he's being viewed as a "touch me not" because we all know that , while not official, the word is out for teams not to touch him.  Of course, he's ignoring the self-imposed circus atmosphere he himself has brought on and hE is cherry picking just that one piece and trying to compare it as a whole but there Isa kernal of Truth in all the minutia- Ben had formal police related charges that were more serious than a civil allegation at this point but AB is being treated more severely.  

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20 minutes ago, Shutout said:

Ben had formal police related charges that were more serious than a civil allegation at this point but AB is being treated more severely.  

Ben was also leading a team to wins while AB is running a three ring circus.  

I rather have a criminal who gets the job done over a total jackass who disrupts everything......per every owner in the NFL.

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Okay is this guy worth hanging onto in standard sized leagues? Any league? Only deep leagues?

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12 hours ago, Don Hutson said:

What do Antonio Brown and Chick-Fil-A have in common? 

In the past few months, in a very public way both have found out that their chicken wasn't as popular as they had assumed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Sorry Joe....... but only because Popeye's is better no matter what their faith)

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8 hours ago, Zow said:

Okay is this guy worth hanging onto in standard sized leagues? Any league? Only deep leagues?

I just saw him cut in one of my two redraft leagues. I would say he’s an easy drop in redraft. Dynasty you have to hope he gets his legal and NFL office issues squared away and someone takes a redemption chance on him. IMO that won’t happen till at least next season. It’s likely he’s done in the NFL. 

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13 hours ago, ghostguy123 said:

Ben was also leading a team to wins while AB is running a three ring circus.  

I rather have a criminal who gets the job done over a total jackass who disrupts everything......per every owner in the NFL.

Ben was never charged with nor convicted of any crime that I am aware of.

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12 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

Ben was never charged with nor convicted of any crime that I am aware of.

But he was at least investigated by the police and a district attorney opted not to file charges without enough evidence to win a conviction. Brown hasn't had any law enforcement involvement that we have been made aware about.

Ben started out with a civil suit, played an entire season, had a second sexual assault allegation, settled the first suit, and then was suspended 6 games (reduced to 4 games). I think that is the proper timeline.

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10 hours ago, Zow said:

Okay is this guy worth hanging onto in standard sized leagues? Any league? Only deep leagues?

I think he's too toxic for any team to sign and play him at this point.  I just dropped him in redraft for Golden Tate. 

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54 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

But he was at least investigated by the police and a district attorney opted not to file charges without enough evidence to win a conviction. Brown hasn't had any law enforcement involvement that we have been made aware about.

Ben started out with a civil suit, played an entire season, had a second sexual assault allegation, settled the first suit, and then was suspended 6 games (reduced to 4 games). I think that is the proper timeline.

Yes you have it right. 

I was just correcting the line "I would rather have a criminal..."  Technically no one is a criminal until they are charged and convicted of a crime.

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1 hour ago, Godsbrother said:

Ben was never charged with nor convicted of any crime that I am aware of.

I don't think he's welcome at Harrah's in Tahoe anymore, though.

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8 minutes ago, Faust said:

This is not a unique opinion, but the main issue I have with these types of predictions is that the assumption is that his known prior acts will be resolved without incident AND no more prior acts come out AND there are no more behavior or inappropriateness issues moving forward. IMO, the way things have gone, I am not sure items 2 and 3 are a given, even if item 1 came true. Bottom line, I don't think AB can just suddenly turn into a good soldier and turn over a whole new leaf because he needs to.

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8 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

This is not a unique opinion, but the main issue I have with these types of predictions is that the assumption is that his known prior acts will be resolved without incident AND no more prior acts come out AND there are no more behavior or inappropriateness issues moving forward. IMO, the way things have gone, I am not sure items 2 and 3 are a given, even if item 1 came true. Bottom line, I don't think AB can just suddenly turn into a good soldier and turn over a whole new leaf because he needs to.

Unfortunately I think the biggest obstacle for him may be his inability to get out of the public eye and stay out of it. If he grasps that playing football this year isn't likely happening, disappears for the rest of the year and comes back next year able to fake some semblance of sanity, he likely gets a shot. It's an ugly truth but money may well address his prior acts. No idea how many cheques he would need to write or how big they would need to be but money hides a lot of shame.

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6 minutes ago, habsfan said:

Unfortunately I think the biggest obstacle for him may be his inability to get out of the public eye and stay out of it. If he grasps that playing football this year isn't likely happening, disappears for the rest of the year and comes back next year able to fake some semblance of sanity, he likely gets a shot. It's an ugly truth but money may well address his prior acts. No idea how many cheques he would need to write or how big they would need to be but money hides a lot of shame.

While that is a good strategy, I have a hard time believing that AB will "lay low" and stay out of the public's eye for a year. All he needed to do to play in NE was keep his mouth shut and not do anything other than play football . . . and he couldn't make it much past a week before he was up to his old tricks (texting and tweeting).

He won't be out of the limelight, though, as he will likely have grievances filed against the Raiders and Patriots to try to cash in on his $40 million in combined guaranteed money from those two teams.

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16 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

While that is a good strategy, I have a hard time believing that AB will "lay low" and stay out of the public's eye for a year. All he needed to do to play in NE was keep his mouth shut and not do anything other than play football . . . and he couldn't make it much past a week before he was up to his old tricks (texting and tweeting).

 

Yep.  And if he would have behaved himself in Oakland he would have guaranteed money in his bank account too.    The guys is off the rails and I am not sure there is anything that's going to get him back on.

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13 hours ago, Zow said:

Okay is this guy worth hanging onto in standard sized leagues? Any league? Only deep leagues?

 

Drop in all seasonal formats. Period.

 

The NFL statement basically said "he's free to sign with any team, and we'll put him on the Exempt List him as soon as he does, until the investigation is complete." 

So he's exempt as soon as he signs, until the investigation is done. Once it's done, then he gets handed a suspension. That suspension could be for both the alleged assault (4 games? 6?) plus the witness intimidation on top of that.

You're a lawyer. What kind of penalty do you think a judge would throw at someone who engages in witness intimidation on the eve of trial? Think it'll be light?

 

He's done for this season. If he gets signed in the off-season, he's probably looking at missing at least the first 8 games of next year. If anyone will sign him.

From a PR perspective, he's poison right now and no one will sign him. He needs to rehabilitate his public image to get a contract now. Or wait until the media circus dies down. He's going to have to do another round of Dancing with the Stars or have a series of sit-down cry sessions in the style of a Barbara Walters interview before he can be signed without the team that signs him getting murdered. Unless it's a team that is already dead to the public, like the Redskins.

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I dropped him.  I believe that a prerequisite for someone signing him would be him taking responsibility and demonstrating that by signing a prove it deal, and neither will happen any time soon, if ever.

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Even if a team signs him during the season, he's very unlikely to play this year.

I think somebody could be interested in the offseason, but that depends on how tarnished he gets with the investigation. Prospective teams will check with the league to see what they found out.

AB is still going to serve some kind of suspension even if he can survive this, maybe a lengthy one.  Playing in a game before mid-season 2020 is highly unlikely.

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16 minutes ago, Walking Boot said:

Drop in all seasonal formats. Period.

The NFL statement basically said "he's free to sign with any team, and we'll put him on the Exempt List him as soon as he does, until the investigation is complete." 

So he's exempt as soon as he signs, until the investigation is done. Once it's done, then he gets handed a suspension. That suspension could be for both the alleged assault (4 games? 6?) plus the witness intimidation on top of that.

You're a lawyer. What kind of penalty do you think a judge would throw at someone who engages in witness intimidation on the eve of trial? Think it'll be light?

He's done for this season. If he gets signed in the off-season, he's probably looking at missing at least the first 8 games of next year. If anyone will sign him.

From a PR perspective, he's poison right now and no one will sign him. He needs to rehabilitate his public image to get a contract now. Or wait until the media circus dies down. He's going to have to do another round of Dancing with the Stars or have a series of sit-down cry sessions in the style of a Barbara Walters interview before he can be signed without the team that signs him getting murdered. Unless it's a team that is already dead to the public, like the Redskins.

I doubt he will get exempted AND suspended. It would probably be one or the other. Big Ben had a civil suit filed against him and he played an entire season. He had a second incident and only got suspended.

A team could sign AB and the league could do neither and the exempt option could have just been a scare tactic. When he was on NE, they did neither and let him play.

I think AB is toxic enough that teams won't look to sign him until the league finishes their investigation. No point paying him if a team might have to wait for the investigation to be completed anyway. I can't remember many times when players got both exempted and suspended. I believe the few times that happened, the player took them to court and won.

And again, all of this is contingent on Brown keeping his mouth shut . . . which hasn't happened much lately.

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dropped him in dynasty yesterday (only Keep 13 though).

glad to be off the crazy train but will admit...before the offseason rolls around, if he's still on my waiver wire, I'll definitely re-add him as an off-season stash.

 

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3 hours ago, Godsbrother said:

Yes you have it right. 

I was just correcting the line "I would rather have a criminal..."  Technically no one is a criminal until they are charged and convicted of a crime.

That's not really true - one can engage in criminal activity and never get caught. Whether or not that makes him a criminal is just semantics.

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2 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

That's not really true - one can engage in criminal activity and never get caught. Whether or not that makes him a criminal is just semantics.

Which is why I said "technically"

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14 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

Which is why I said "technically"

He's absolutely a criminal the moment he commits the crime.  The word you're defining is convict. 

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17 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

Which is why I said "technically"

So you wouldn’t consider some one that broke into a house, murdered the family living there and stole everything they could a criminal unless or until they were caught and tried and convicted?

Ben is a criminal - everyone knows this, especially  the DA who was practically in tears that he couldn’t press forward based on the evidence (or lack thereof) even though he knew what happened that night.

Edited by Dr. Octopus

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4 hours ago, Mookie said:

I think he's too toxic for any team to sign and play him at this point.  I just dropped him in redraft for Golden Tate. 

At least until the legal stuff gets sorted out, yes. I'm just hoping the NFL doesn't intentionally leave this investigation lingering for months on end just to have an excuse to keep him out of the league and hope he's forgotten about. Which I fully expect them to do.

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1 hour ago, Anarchy99 said:

I doubt he will get exempted AND suspended. It would probably be one or the other. Big Ben had a civil suit filed against him and he played an entire season. He had a second incident and only got suspended.

A team could sign AB and the league could do neither and the exempt option could have just been a scare tactic. When he was on NE, they did neither and let him play.

I think AB is toxic enough that teams won't look to sign him until the league finishes their investigation. No point paying him if a team might have to wait for the investigation to be completed anyway. I can't remember many times when players got both exempted and suspended. I believe the few times that happened, the player took them to court and won.

And again, all of this is contingent on Brown keeping his mouth shut . . . which hasn't happened much lately.

Could very well happen.  The exempt list isn't a punishment, and it doesn't replace the suspension.  If the NFL doesn't want him in the limelight they can use the exempt list while things are cooling off and/or facts are still coming to light and then levy the punishment after that.

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1 minute ago, Hankmoody said:

Could very well happen.  The exempt list isn't a punishment, and it doesn't replace the suspension.  If the NFL doesn't want him in the limelight they can use the exempt list while things are cooling off and/or facts are still coming to light and then levy the punishment after that.

Isn’t that exactly what happened with Hunt? Or maybe they never put him on the exempt list because no team claimed him?

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1 minute ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Isn’t that exactly what happened with Hunt? Or maybe they never put him on the exempt list because no team claimed him?

I think he was on it, then cut while he was on it so it became moot?  Or if he was cut first, it was moot to put him on it.

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2 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Isn’t that exactly what happened with Hunt? Or maybe they never put him on the exempt list because no team claimed him?

Hunt was exempted and cut. Then he signed and was exempted and later suspended. 

Certainly the league can do whatever it wants, but there still doesn't appear to be any police involvement in any of the allegations against Brown. Who knows if that means anything or not, but the league had been letting AB participating in everything with NE. IMO, enough has gone on that the league won't have to get involved in the short term as no team will sign him at the moment. Next year may be different, so they might just opt for nothing or a suspension and live the exempt list out of it.

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34 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

So you wouldn’t consider some one that broke into a house, murdered the family living there and stole everything they could a criminal unless or until they were caught and tried and convicted?

 

I would but technically everyone in this country is innocent until proven guilty.  

34 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Ben is a criminal - everyone knows this, especially  the DA who was practically in tears that he couldn’t press forward based on the evidence (or lack thereof) even though he knew what happened that night.

The DA said there was not enough evidence to prove that a crime was even committed.   

I don't want to hijack this tread anymore so this will be my last comment on the subject:  You can presume anything you want but the bottom line is according to the US constitution he is not a criminal.   Now you can say anything you want about Ben but I am NOT about to sit here and listen to you bad mouth the United States of America!   GENTLEMEN!

[Leaving as I hum the Star Spangled Banner...]

Edited by Godsbrother
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59 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Hunt was exempted and cut. Then he signed and was exempted and later suspended. 

Certainly the league can do whatever it wants, but there still doesn't appear to be any police involvement in any of the allegations against Brown. Who knows if that means anything or not, but the league had been letting AB participating in everything with NE. IMO, enough has gone on that the league won't have to get involved in the short term as no team will sign him at the moment. Next year may be different, so they might just opt for nothing or a suspension and live the exempt list out of it.

OTOH, while they let him participate in everything with NE, that was all prior to tampering with the witness in the NFL's own investigation. That secondary act, attempting to obstruct the NFL's process, may be deserving of exemption that a "he-said-she-said" complaint alone didn't warrant. 

While sexual harassment & assault cases are, sadly, frequent enough to have some guidelines for the league's reaction, I don't know if there's any precedent for intimidating a witness and trying to mess with the commissioner's investigation itself.

Edited by Walking Boot

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11 minutes ago, Walking Boot said:

OTOH, while they let him participate in everything with NE, that was all prior to tampering with the witness in the NFL's own investigation. That secondary act, attempting to obstruct the NFL's process, may be deserving of exemption that a "he-said-she-said" complaint alone didn't warrant. 

While sexual harassment & assault cases are, sadly, frequent enough to have some guidelines for the league's reaction, I don't know if there's any precedent for intimidating a witness and trying to mess with the commissioner's investigation itself.

Clearly we are all getting AB fatigue, but even the intimidating text wasn't going to be investigated by the police and would not be a chargeable offense in Massachusetts. So nothing truly criminal there. Dumb? Shady? Absolutely. I go back to when this all started . . . so far AB has not been investigated by law enforcement to even be considered for a crime. The best thing the league could do is to cite him for conduct detrimental to the league . . . but all the other stuff doesn't have a lot of teeth and will set a pretty rocky precedent. 

If the league investigates and takes action against Brown with regard to the civil suit allegation, that could cause Brown to lose the civil case and have him be found liable to have to pay her a big chunk of change. All her attorneys would need to do would be to say in court his own employer disciplined him over it. I am not sure we want the NFL investigating legal matters and having their decisions used as as a pendulum to swing court cases. And mind you, I never was on Brown's side . . . I only was on the the side of someone having to prove allegations.

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Just now, Anarchy99 said:

Clearly we are all getting AB fatigue, but even the intimidating text wasn't going to be investigated by the police and would not be a chargeable offense in Massachusetts. So nothing truly criminal there. Dumb? Shady? Absolutely. I go back to when this all started . . . so far AB has not been investigated by law enforcement to even be considered for a crime. The best thing the league could do is to cite him for conduct detrimental to the league . . . but all the other stuff doesn't have a lot of teeth and will set a pretty rocky precedent. 

If the league investigates and takes action against Brown with regard to the civil suit allegation, that could cause Brown to lose the civil case and have him be found liable to have to pay her a big chunk of change. All her attorneys would need to do would be to say in court his own employer disciplined him over it. I am not sure we want the NFL investigating legal matters and having their decisions used as as a pendulum to swing court cases. And mind you, I never was on Brown's side . . . I only was on the the side of someone having to prove allegations.

 

I get that the intimidation wasn't a criminal thing. I just think Roger will have a dim view of a player trying to sabotage the NFL's official investigation by threatening witnesses against him. I don't know what the precedent is for that, but the NFL can certainly police itself. The league can definitely take action against someone for doing something not criminal but still interfering with league operations. I think it might not matter that the action isn't technically criminal, the internal integrity of the commissioner's office and the league itself became an injured party.

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